I picked this up a while back hoping it would be a slightly less expensive alternative to the UJK Parf Guide System. I finally got around to setting up an MFT style workstation and am rather disapointed by the lack of precision in the resulting hole pattern. Long story short, between the template, router guide bushing, router bit itself, and making sure your bushing is perfectly centered in the router, there's just too many variables that lead to compounding errors that result in a hole pattern that isn't square. And when I say it isn't square, I mean it's off by more than what I can produce manually with a measuring tape, scribing a 3-4-5 triangle and cutting with a track saw. I blew an entire weekend and a full sheet of MDF iterating through adjustments to try to get this thing dialed in and it just wasn't happening. Also, I had picked up the MFT square from Woodpeckers along with some of their benchdogs.... I question how far out of square the square is because even that's off, and the benchdogs are undersized by over 0.005". You might not think that's alot, but it creates enough slop in a 20mm dog hole you wouldn't want to use them to make a true 90 degree cut. I'll probably end up using the resulting MFT tops for clamping jigs, but that's about all their good for IMO. I did order some of the UJK dogs from Axminster and those came in the other day, they're only off 20mm by about 0.00075 - 0.001" (I know I'm mixing units, but my calipers aren't metric). I ended up ordering the UJK Parf Guide System anyway. That should be here in about a week. Hopefully it'll yield better results. If it does, it just goes to show sometimes the cheaper alternative isn't cheaper in the long run.
I would be surprised if you do. If you ask the PARF supplier, they will agree that their system also has lots of accumulating errors that means the frequent claims on RUclips are nonsense. A large and accurate template is the best solution (not a small one like this), but do not use MDF- it is not sufficiently stable to retain accuracy.
@@moderntouchfurniture The UJK does take longer because of the multiple steps to drill each hole, but I got better results from it. My plan is to use the current bench top as a template when it comes time to replace it. If I haven't done too much damage to the dog holes then the new top should be just about as accurate as going through the long way, step-by-step. If that turns out to be the case then I'll just use the template going forward. Since I use the dog holes for registering and making 90 and 45 degree cuts, the UJK system was worth the money. If I just used it for clamping and hold down duties, then it probably isnt.
@@nunyabizness6734 Thank for your honest opinion Nunya, Woodpecker is such a great company with some great engineers, I'm sure they will work out those tolerances on version 2.0.
I also bought the hole boring jig and experienced the inaccuracy. Now that I watch this video again you can see the plate moving after he inserts the aluminum dogs. I hate to spend the money on the Parf Guide systems after purchasing this. Im going to try and use the 3/4" bearing and then use the UJK sizing/chamfer tool and see if that will make 20mm holes more accurately. I wouldn't purchase this system until they come out with a new version.
Great show Jeff. I bought one of these from Woodpeckers some time back. I suppose I was a little doubtful of the accuracy. But after watching you do it so easily, I need to get me butt up and do it. LOL. Thanks kind Sir for helping us woodworkers.
I messed up at first and was using a 3/8” spiral upcut bit… switched to my 3/4” spiral upcut and got nice tight 20mm dog holes. Used a scrap piece of mdf to practice on first and once I got it dialed in it was fast and simple. Forgive my hastily reply that I’ve since deleted. Woodpeckers comes through again!
Perfect timing my MFT top is on its last usage and I just received my jig from Woodpeckers. Are you reading my mind??? 😀 Great instruction as always Jeff, thank you sir!
Great video and a wonderful product idea. But like Alain Coste below I also noticed the wobble of the jig in the video. It is true that if you are only going to use the table for clamping, a perfectly square grid of holes isn't necessary. However there are various reasons why it is desirable: 1. Festool MFT tables are designed also to work with bench dogs. When using the bench dogs and a guide rail one can achieve perfectly square cuts every time. 2. With a table that has a perfectly square grid of 20mm holes, one can design and use add on accessories to the table such as Ron Paulk has with his benches. The use of those add on accessories is dependent on a perfectly square grid of 20mm holes as one accessory has to line up with the holes on your bench. 3. And even the use of the Woodpecker clamping jigs shown in this video predicate that the holes be perfectly aligned. It could become quite frustrating trying to put those jigs on your table if you need them in a place where the holes got a little off. tightening tolerance
Just a heads up. I've got the OF1400. From the factory/when it was new, the bit wasn't centered in a guide bushing. The only way to fix it is to send it in to Festool service, (which is what I did to no avail, they couldn't or wouldn't fix it), or fix it yourself. I fixed mine by making 2 notches in the guide bushing plate thereby exposing the screws that hold the ring that holds the plate. You'll also have to remove 2 tiny pins that make moving the ring impossible. I have a video showing what I did. A good practice with any brand of router is to check your router with a centering mandrel before using a guide bushing. If it isn't center there's a good chance your finished product won't be accurate.
@@ronmurphy4234 I never got an explanation. They sent it back still not properly aligned and carelessly thrown into the systainer on its side. I blew my top when I unboxed it. I could see where they attempted to elongate the holes for the 2 tiny pins so they could move the ring that holds the guide bushing plate but it still wasn't aligned. The OF1400 is a nice router with stellar dust collection but one thing I wish it had was LED lights. If my OF1400 goes kerflooey I might check out a Bosch router.
@@ThekiBoran I was also looking at the Bosch MRC23EVSK, I like the LED lights and the "normal" handle position... I was just trying to eliminate routers, I have a D-Handle and a Plunge this could replace.
@@ronmurphy4234 If the OF1400 had LED's I'd say get it but since it doesn't I'm not so sure. How's the dust collection on the Bosch? That's a big deal and the festool is really good at that. One of the first jobs I did with the OF1400 was to rout several hundred 20mm holes in my MDF work top. Not a speck of dust anywhere in the shop. On the other hand another job was routing mortises for soss-type hinges in a baseball display case. Would have been easier with LED's. I'd say the handles on the 1400 are good. I feel like I've got good control of it when using it. Other than the kapex I don't regret any of my festool purchases.
@@ThekiBoran : I'm sure it's not as good as the OF1400, but I use a shop vac and not a $1,000 Festool vac system. What didn't you like about the Kapex?
This method works really well when you add a straight edge/fence to the edge of the template. A minor rotation and slight oversize of the holes can propagate to some imprecision - so practice first if you want to get more precision or have a lot of holes. Also, I found that the routing goes a lot easier if I drill out most of the holes with an undersized bit first. This method also works well for thicker and non-MDF tops (like hardwood, plywood, laminate).
What do you mean by a straight edge/fence to the edge of the template. Did you actually fasten something to the edge of the template. Explain in a little more detail, please. I have used my Woodpeckers template to make two work surfaces and once you get away from the corner, there is enough slop in the fit of the "plugs" that inaccuracies do develop. When I used my big Woodpeckers square and four bench dogs the holes weren't square on either one.
Austin - sorry for the overdue reply. I did use a low-profile straight edge (clamped down), and made sure the template was always against it. If you think about the effect of a little bit of slop and the number of times you move the template, it’s best to reduce the degrees of freedom in movement. That said, it’s woodworking, and some tolerance for error (1/32” or so) seems fair game. 4 times that (by propagation of errors), and it’s 1/8” - fairly noticeable.
@@austinphillips9802 I had the same problem with mine. If I had known this was an issue beforehand I would have purchased the Parf System instead. The red index pins/dogs have a lot of play in the jig as well. SMH.
@@brianb3107 same here. I am a novice woodworker and in spite of my best efforts to maintain alignment, the slop in the holes and index pins resulted in a sub-optimal layout. I don’t know if this was a result of the jig itself, or my lack of routing expertise. I would seek out the parf system as well before attempting again. Given my level of expertise, I believe that system is a better fit for me.
@@jonhoffm it's the jig... I had my clamped to a festool guide rail, and it still moves. Wishing I would've just got the parf guide system instead. First Woodpeckers product I've been disappointed with.
They are awesome and Jeff is one of THE best instructors there is. Also, the owner of Woodworkers (Richard Hummel) is a born genius; and that is one of the things that make "Woodpeckers" one of THE best suppliers, in the world, of items for us woodworkers. So I say "A tip of the hat" to Jeff and Richard. They are truly a "Cut" above, with out doubt. Note: I do NOT work for Woodpeckers, nor am I any kin to anyone in the company. I just love their products. Been buying things from them since they opened.
Just a comment about economics in the workshop. I have two Festool MFT tables because you can never have enough horizontal surface to lay things down. In about twelve years, I have replaced one top. I make sure I don’t cut more than about 5mm into it when using my track saw and I use the flip down track which is registered against stops at each end so that there remains only one saw kerf in the table top. I do have the large Woodpeckers triangle and I use it before every set-up to make sure the track and fence are at a perfect 90. When doing glue-ups or finishing, I always cover the table with a sheet of plastic. You could easily get 20 years out of one table top because when one side gets ragged you flip it over to the fresh side.
James, I agree, for the most part. The table I replaced in the video is an embarrassing number of years old and should have been replaced years ago. I'm not as careful as you are, but still did my best to keep the table usable. My biggest issue is that after years of use the table is sagging badly. I made my new table out of MDO plywood instead of MDF. I think it will hold up better. I also have used the Hole Boring Jig to build other work surfaces. Even if you only use it a few times in your shop career, this jig has a quick ROI and opens up a lot of design options for your shop equipment.
@@WoodpeckersLLC Yes, I think the real value of having this Hole Boring jig is making various other work surfaces that can accept the various hold down devices, bench pucks, etc., either on the market or shop-made ones. I am one of those who, after building a beautiful maple workbench nine years ago, did not want it full of dog holes.
One of the primary functions of a MFT is perfect alignment of the 20mm dogholes and this jig appears to have far too much slop to produce that. I've got a MFT3 and other custom tops I've made with the parf-guide and they're great to drop dogs in, butt my tracksaw rail against, and make square/repeatable cuts. This jig is basically ideal for creating a good/quick clamping station. As a guy who owns multiple Woodpecker squares/jigs and enjoys them, I'm actually surprised a half-baked jig like this was even released as the hallmark of the brand is accuracy. The ideal MFT jig solution in my mind is a bigger version of the parf-guide system that allows you to use a router and bore multiple holes without moving the jig so frequently...the biggest downside of the parf-guide is all the drilling and moving of the guide, but the accuracy and lack of real competition in the space makes it worth it IMO. Cheers!
Okay, here's where we're at. We know that I failed to clamp the template at least once. We also know I used a Festool 1400 where the guide bushing moves an appreciable amount. Even with those two issues I laid the factory table on top of my finished table and pinned them together with dogs and it was exactly the same as the factory table. Not one single pair of holes failed to line up with each other. About 1/3 of the holes were slightly oversized (from the guide bushing movement, I would guess). Look for a follow-up Deep Dive within the next few weeks. I'm going to get a set of rail dogs, test this table, and make a new table using a different router and better clamping discipline and test that one. As a clamping platform, I have complete confidence in the table I made in the video. The over-sized holes may keep it from being a top-notch cutting platform. We'll see when the rail dogs get here.
@@WoodpeckersLLC I appreciate the thorough reply! I agree that your jig is a good way to make a great clamping station quickly...I’m addicted to all the options the dog holes offer. I’ve bored 20mm dog holes into every work surface in my shop..even considering cutting some into the wing of my SawStop! You guys are onto something using a router to cut the 20mm holes vs guides that use a drill...like I said, I’d love to see the woodpecker take on the parf-guide with a bigger/quicker system that implements the router. Maybe a guide big enough to layout an entire row of holes without constantly moving the jig? Cheers!
Actually, the (original) MFT does NOT use the holes for referencing cuts- both the fence and the rail are referenced to the aluminium frame, and are adjustable to obtain a square cut. The holes are (originally) meant for clamping only.
I bought this, and I find that even with 3 dogs in the jig. It still wobbles around a bit. I have the 20mm dogs. They fit tight in the hols of the bench, but kid of loose in the template
Michael, I don't use the holes for cutting. I follow the manufacturer's recommendation and align the fence to a square, like we showed last week. The holes are for workholding.
@@WoodpeckersLLC then why bother with the precision? If you just want to stabilize work pieces you don’t need alignment precision just enough holes. You could add them randomly as needed, no?
@@michaelkaye4998 Absolutely. This is the elephant in the room. Claims are made for accuracy of dog hole grids that are clearly (to an engineer) nonsense. If pressed, none of the suppliers will say that their systems achieve this. A large template (ideally full size, but half will do) carefully used to machine a Baltic ply table (MDF will not do) will give sufficient accuracy for most purposes. For the main cutting geometry always use the same dog holes and have an adjustable fence (or rail connectors) and calibrate.
In this application, why not use the old MFT top as a template to get the spacing for the edge holes and then use the jig for the remaining holes? Wouldn't that eliminate the initial measuring for locating the jig when drilling the perimeter holes? Nice job! Great videos!
Lou, not sure how you would use the old top, since the holes are exactly the finished dimension. The holes in the template accommodate the guide bushing.
@@TGH1966 I attempted what you proposed and while it does work there are problems with it, the main one being that you have to prebore undersize and then trim out the waste. it took way more time than I expected
@@jpgro2 If you use a existing 2096 top and a top bearing 1/2" pattern bit you can remake your existing top. While it may take a little bit more time, you don't have to buy a jig to do it. It is basically doing what this jig does, without having to move the jig. You should be able to make the new top even faster that way.
Excellent! Discovered your videos and look forward to watching more. Purchased the new table l-saw miter gauge + fence thank s to your demonstration. New sub! Thank you
I would have some doubts about the accuracy : at 9:29 we can see the jig moving relative to the plate being drilled. Did you check the equidistance and orthogonality of the holes ?
Alain, as I've mentioned in other comments, as a clamping platform absolute precision is not necessary. I forgot to clamp the template on that set of holes, which was a mistake. I am not going to obsess over getting the holes absolutely perfect when there is a factory approved and designed method for alignment that does not rely on the holes.
If it mattered the test would be to overlap the jig with the first and last set of holes. Reality is the holes are for alignment, over time they will wear and if used for alignment add to inaccuracies.
@@WoodpeckersLLC If you offset the 20mm pins into a triangle, instead of a straight line, it holds the jig firmly. Yeah, you have to move the jig a few more times, but you get a more accurate layout. If you want to check this, put the jig on your finished top and see the difference when you have 20mm pins in two rows vs one row. When they're all in one row, you can rock the jig. Triangulate the pins and it doesn't rock.
@@brucestarr4438 this would be great in the instructions. I used this jig for my last workbench, and because of size clamps weren’t always possible, or at the time I didn’t have clamps that I could use in the holes I previously bored and was not near an edge. Anyway, the jig does move quite a bit which also led to wildly varying hole dimensions. This is likely the only woodpecker tool I ever bought that I was less than 100% satisfied with. However it was all user error if I’m fair. By the end of the table I figured out how to get more accuracy and consistency, but it took a whole table top to figure it out. A video showing all the ways to go wrong might actually be more helpful to the end user.
Jeff, what I was really hoping for at the end of the video was a demonstration of the accuracy of the holes the jig will produce. For example, if you had placed a dog in each of two long end hole last and one of the middle holes in line with them and then shown them to a known straight edge and verified the holes to be in line within a .010 tolerance along the length of the table, and then again with a square to prove to squareness of the holes, THAT would prove the jig’s value. But without this we cannot take for granted that there will be no accumulated drift/error as one moves the plate down the table. And the straightness and squareness of the finished holes is the ENTIRE point of the jig. Otherwise any even marginal WWer can contrive a system for getting evenly spaced 20 mm holes “pretty darn close”. This either gets them dead on or doesn’t. If it does, please show us!
It’s not sold to be accurate per Woodpeckers description and they never claim accuracy. The only jig on the market to make accurate holes is the Parf MK2. The Woodpeckers jig was created to just replicate the hole pattern with the expectation that you wouldn’t use dogs to align track for square cuts but rather use the Festool MFT fence or just use dog holes for clamping. I purchased both and sold the Woodpeckers as it’s an inferior jig in terms of accuracy.
I received this in January and sent multiple messages via your website asking what the proper hole diameter is in the template with no response. With no response I decided I to try to return it but it was now the 30th day since ordering so I sent another message asking if I could return it with no restocking fee. Haven't heard anything back yet.
I recently picked this up after finding out it’s one of the cheaper MFT template option in the US. I don’t think I’m a fan. I hope there’s a version 2, and that Woodpecker changes a couple things to improve the product. I would like to see the kit come with 1 guide bushing that is a perfect match for the hole, either 30mm hole with 30mm bushing or some other imperial measurement. That way the user can choose a 20mm or 3/4” Forstner or router bit, and then a single plunge movement would need to be made instead of the circular motion needed to ream out the hole. The circular reaming motion is causing the template to move so slightly to where my holes are not quite snug enough.
This is exactly what I’m looking for! Perfect looking jig by a reputable brand. Please find a way to ship to Australia within reasonable prices 🙏. We need this jig!
The template could do with being a bit larger- incrementally 'walking' a template across the table gives increasing errors. And the index pins should be set as far from each other as possible- it is clear from watching you inserting them that they are far from tight, so there is a location tolerance which increases the closer the pins (actually dowels in engineering terms) are. Dimensional accuracy is not as important as often made out for these tables- especially with MDF which is not very stable dimensionally, but one should try for as accurate a result as the system permits.
agree. this doesn't seem accurate. also, I would rather use a router bit with a bearing which instead of a guide bushing, the bearing is concentric with the bit, while the guide busing is not and contributes to the increasing errors you mentioned.
@@ionut5316 You are right- I have cut dog holes using a template with 20mm holes and a 'trim' bit- with an integral bearing. I actually used very slightly undersized dimensions, and finished off with a hand reamer. gives a more precise sized hole. Gives pretty accurate results- I have measured the spacing using gauge blocks (which are accurate to nanometers...) I used Baltic ply instead of MDF of course- much better stability over time. Using 20mm holes means that you can register the template using these, removing another source of inaccuracy.
@@Advcrazy they are not cut with bits. The template is CNC cut with a carbide end mill, so whatever size is desired- I use 19.9. Transferred with a trim router, so the same size, within tolerances, then reamed for high accuracy.
Stanley, if you have Festool hold downs and clamps, 20mm is the better choice. Several North American manufacturers make stops, hold downs and clamps in 3/4" and some folks already have a collection of them. If you're starting from scratch, take a look at the clamping and stop options available and decide which one you prefer before you decide which size hole to go with.
Seems silly that the index pins and clamps block you from routing the adjacent holes. Just like any other system for doing this, every time you have to move the template/rulers(Parf) you add an error to tye next bunch of holes. Also, it looks like those red indexing pins don’t fit particularly snug? Without out being a firm fit I can only imagine that there would be quite an error if one wanted to do say a 14x10 bench top (so this small jig had to be moved loads of times)
Im making a 4x8 now. It's more of an assembly table so I'm not throwing myself off a bridge over total accuracy. First off. I suck at routing! I'm almost a half sheet in.. I rocked the router (of1400) numerous times so some holes are pretty sloppy I thought but, then I put some dogs in the Festool mft3 and they really aren't that tight. After watching this again I think Im blasting through too fast as well. Im calling this a practice run so I'm not gonna badmouth the product yet. Edit: The indexing pins are tight as long as your holes aren't sloppy
Now if WPs was really dialed in this would include alignment pins that work with the Parf guide layout holes. Router is a better method for the actual 20, 3/4 holes than the Parf auger bit. Assuming the Parf has same spacing.
Actually the PARF system uses a forstner bit, but I agree that a router is better- the PARF system relies on a single bearing for alignment. But the PARF system was not based on engineering- if you query the accuracy to the company selling it, they will list all the sources of inaccuracy involved. Do NOT believe the claims in videos for this system. The best approach for home use is a CNC cut table, the second best a CNC cut template that is table size. As the template reduces in size, the accuracy also reduces. If the holes are to be used for alignment (rather than clamping) do NOT use MDF- it is not stable enough. (The Festool MFT does not use the holes for this- it indexes off the frame.)
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop ''''20mm holes on 96mm centers. In this 11 minute video, Jeff Farris welcomes you into his shop as he makes a new top for his MFT ''''''.......'Made special for track saw.....20 on 96..This table can be max 0,021789 degree off (700 mm 5 cut), this expensive board is just not good enough to do the job.
@@xinixxagnix201 Not quite sure what point you are trying to make- but MDF is just not suitable as a reference for precise cuts. There is a reason that table saws of quality always have a cast iron surface.
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop lol a MDF CNC milled 30 dollar MFT is more accurate as a 20k saw...... As i mentioned 0,021789 degree off on a 700mm 5 cut.....That is perfect for all jobs.....But this WP jig is over the top price wise, for that money you got the Parf systeem..
@@xinixxagnix201 Measuring a piece of wood to five significant figures is nonsense on stilts. If you do not understand why, ask an engineer- or a physicist.
Ok thats what i thought..the offset is arbitrary and has basically no meaning ...thank you...what do you recommend me machining the 25mm holes to..25mm 25.1mm..are the dogs undersized or exactly 25mm?..there needs to be a somewhat slip fit but nice and snug ...im going to make a jig and buy the dogs...so im trying to find out what my jig dog holes should measure.
Hi woody woodpecker...ive seen numerous version/designed jigs...it seems 96mm hole pattern is common and 25mm and 30mm dog holes...however the rest of the jig varies widely...why does the starting point offset matter or no matter?..some jigs have start alignment holes some dont.
It is the offset of Festool's MFT/3 table. If you're making a custom table you can make the starting offsets whatever you want them to be by using spacers against the edges to reposition the corner hole.
I’ve messed up two bench tops trying to get a perfectly square grid of holes with this jig. It’s fine if you’re just going to use the holes for clamping. Very frustrating.
Jeff what did you do to get the bushing to fit the adapter plate on the festool router? I have the MFT hole boring jig and the included brass ring doesn't fit the router adapter hole. The ring is too large to fit the adapter.
Contact Customer Service for a replacement. We had a few that were within tolerance for everything except Festool. We changed the dimension slightly and now it works for all.
I bought the 3/4" hole version some time back. Hoe can I use it to do 20mm holes? Guessing need the right guide bushing for one, though don't know the size. Do I need new indexing pins as well?
Ron, you're right, you'll need both a new guide bushing and new indexing pins. Call customer service. I'm pretty sure they can sell you just what you need.
MDO Plywood (Medium Density Overlay). It's what most outdoor billboards are made from. The top veneer is either a thin layer of MDF or a resin impregnated paper...depending on what brand you're getting. Very nice stuff for shop furniture. It's flat, stable, smooth and relatively inexpensive (compared to other sheet goods).
I wish Woodpeckers released this before I dropped a big bunch more $$$ on my Parf Guide system. This actually looks a lot easier to use, and equally as accurate, AND with the Woodpeckers system, you're not limited to 20mm, which is slightly larger than 3/4. It's not very easy to find find 20mm accessories, or affordable.
Your Parf Guide system is more accurate, though. I have the Woodpeckers template and once you get away from the corner and into the field of the workpiece there are inaccuracies in the Woodpeckers system. There is enough slop in the fit of the "plugs" that the accuracy suffers. I've used mine to make two work surfaces and when I was done I used my big Woodpeckers square with four bench dogs and the holes were not square.
How about after you’ve used your Parf system, sell it to me used. Then you can re-invest that money in this woodpecker version later if you want to make yet another top? Totally serious btw.
I like this method very much! Do you guys make inch and metric versions of all your mft tools and accessories? I'd like to make one but don't want to limit it's flexibility because I increased its usefulness scale-wise.
The very first woodpecker tool I’ve ever owned that I’m VERY VERY underwhelmed with. I literally ruined a sheet of 3/4. Jig is very sloppy. It’s easy when doing edges because of the pins but when having to do center it just dose t work. The red pins are a 1/32 maybe -1/64 thicker than the template. The is makes routing near the red pins a pain in the butt. I feel the one I did by hand with a drill bit is better and more accurate.
I purchased this kit and, frankly was disappointed. You have to use a straitedge and always clamp the jig. Look at the video at ~9:30 that thing is moving all over and results in 20mm holes that often aren't a precision fit. Kicking myself for cheaping out (something I thought I'd never say with Woodpeckers) and not just buying the Parf system.
I would like to ask a question about something not related to the video. I have watched your videos and enjoy, but I want to build a rear deck in the rear window of the car for looks and speakers. My question is what type of wood do you think would work best for this project, the car is going to be a show car. Would you please get back with me on this. Maybe you selling the product that I need. Thanks Michael McSwain
@@WoodpeckersLLC thank you, the car would not be in direct sunlight all the time, just in car shows and the reallys. I told him the same thing. But he was thinking some kind of hardwood, I was thinking maybe some woods from Africa or Australia. He did his chevelle with plastics and cloth and leather, but he just wanted to put wood in his 78 transam. If you have any ideas on something exotic, African iron wood Thanks Michael
I hated this jig. The guide bushing with 1/2 inch bit just compounds over a larger table. In Woodpeckers own words when i returned it that MFT tables are not meant to be accurate. Ive had amazing success with the UJK Parf Guide system. But even though that is a great system i just get my sheets CNC now. Time is money. Takes to long to get a full 4.x8 sheet routed or drilled when it cost my 30 dollars to have a company CNC it for me.
And that's just for the work holder!! You'd be another $150 or so to buy the template jig first, so you could use the workholder!! Great quality stuff, but wow, expensive!
Just to be clear, the Hole Boring Jig is $199 for the kit that has both 20mm and 3/4". $140 if you only want one size. The Workholding Kit is what I think you're looking at for $299. It is pretty expensive, but there's a lot to that kit. As for making a top...the jig is less expensive than one Festool replacement top...and it will last forever.
My brother bought this router bit and 20mm system was terribly inaccurate. We could not make it accurate. Way way too much play. Returned it and got the part guide. About the same price. Parf guide came with drill bit. Not much price difference about $200. Parf guide slower but way more accurate
I have to amend a previous comment I made about the inaccuracy of this jig. After watching Peter Millard, ruclips.net/video/9DhLQPrjnik/видео.html, one of the kits he reviewed came with aluminum tape to tune the fit. I did the same with the woodpeckers jig. Using two wraps of aluminum tape I got the fit so snug there is zero slop in the holes with my bench dogs. There is still some minor movement between the woodpecker dogs and the phenolic plate. So you have to push/pull the plate to one side and secure it with a clamp before routing the holes. I found that if I always push/pull the plate in the same direction every time I moved the plate, my holes were exactly 96mm apart and square. I hope this helps anyone who purchased this jug and is having trouble with the accuracy of it.
It is a little bit of a "snowball" effect. If you don't clamp the template down, any movement whatsoever results in a larger hole. Then that hole gets used as an index, it allows even more movement, and the result is even larger holes. While I don't have any argument against shimming, I think clamping the template each and every time it is moved is the most significant thing you can do to make this system effective.
@@WoodpeckersLLC I did clamp the template down before routing. The problem is the holes are too big for a 20mm dog. The shimming is to correct the size of the bushing. I can correct the looseness of the template by using a square before clamping the template down . Though after shimming the bushing, there was almost no movement in the template. What you can't correct with squares and clamping is the looseness in the holes that are too large to be accurate when using tracks and fences made for the MFT system. You could improve the kit by either increasing the size of the bushing a few thousandths or include tape to shim the busing to the desired fit.
![3 MFT Tops, 3 MFT jigs [Video 498]](/img/1.gif)
So great to hear an American use the international standard of millimetres. Makes so much more sense.
Want one bad! On my very long list of woodpeckers wish list!!
I picked this up a while back hoping it would be a slightly less expensive alternative to the UJK Parf Guide System. I finally got around to setting up an MFT style workstation and am rather disapointed by the lack of precision in the resulting hole pattern. Long story short, between the template, router guide bushing, router bit itself, and making sure your bushing is perfectly centered in the router, there's just too many variables that lead to compounding errors that result in a hole pattern that isn't square. And when I say it isn't square, I mean it's off by more than what I can produce manually with a measuring tape, scribing a 3-4-5 triangle and cutting with a track saw. I blew an entire weekend and a full sheet of MDF iterating through adjustments to try to get this thing dialed in and it just wasn't happening. Also, I had picked up the MFT square from Woodpeckers along with some of their benchdogs.... I question how far out of square the square is because even that's off, and the benchdogs are undersized by over 0.005". You might not think that's alot, but it creates enough slop in a 20mm dog hole you wouldn't want to use them to make a true 90 degree cut. I'll probably end up using the resulting MFT tops for clamping jigs, but that's about all their good for IMO.
I did order some of the UJK dogs from Axminster and those came in the other day, they're only off 20mm by about 0.00075 - 0.001" (I know I'm mixing units, but my calipers aren't metric). I ended up ordering the UJK Parf Guide System anyway. That should be here in about a week. Hopefully it'll yield better results. If it does, it just goes to show sometimes the cheaper alternative isn't cheaper in the long run.
I would be surprised if you do. If you ask the PARF supplier, they will agree that their system also has lots of accumulating errors that means the frequent claims on RUclips are nonsense. A large and accurate template is the best solution (not a small one like this), but do not use MDF- it is not sufficiently stable to retain accuracy.
Hey Nunya how did the UJK work out compared to Woodpeckers?
@@moderntouchfurniture The UJK does take longer because of the multiple steps to drill each hole, but I got better results from it. My plan is to use the current bench top as a template when it comes time to replace it. If I haven't done too much damage to the dog holes then the new top should be just about as accurate as going through the long way, step-by-step. If that turns out to be the case then I'll just use the template going forward. Since I use the dog holes for registering and making 90 and 45 degree cuts, the UJK system was worth the money. If I just used it for clamping and hold down duties, then it probably isnt.
@@nunyabizness6734 Thank for your honest opinion Nunya, Woodpecker is such a great company with some great engineers, I'm sure they will work out those tolerances on version 2.0.
I also bought the hole boring jig and experienced the inaccuracy. Now that I watch this video again you can see the plate moving after he inserts the aluminum dogs. I hate to spend the money on the Parf Guide systems after purchasing this. Im going to try and use the 3/4" bearing and then use the UJK sizing/chamfer tool and see if that will make 20mm holes more accurately. I wouldn't purchase this system until they come out with a new version.
Thanks again as always Jeff! Well done…always looking for the next deep dive video.
Great show Jeff. I bought one of these from Woodpeckers some time back. I suppose I was a little doubtful of the accuracy. But after watching you do it so easily, I need to get me butt up and do it. LOL.
Thanks kind Sir for helping us woodworkers.
I messed up at first and was using a 3/8” spiral upcut bit… switched to my 3/4” spiral upcut and got nice tight 20mm dog holes. Used a scrap piece of mdf to practice on first and once I got it dialed in it was fast and simple. Forgive my hastily reply that I’ve since deleted. Woodpeckers comes through again!
I have always dreamed of having a shop with a fireplace in it!
Makes scrap disposal pretty simple! I do enjoy it.
@@WoodpeckersLLC BTW, I do enjoy your videos! I have a number of Woodpeckers products ... first rate tools!
Perfect timing my MFT top is on its last usage and I just received my jig from Woodpeckers. Are you reading my mind??? 😀 Great instruction as always Jeff, thank you sir!
Great video and a wonderful product idea. But like Alain Coste below I also noticed the wobble of the jig in the video. It is true that if you are only going to use the table for clamping, a perfectly square grid of holes isn't necessary. However there are various reasons why it is desirable:
1. Festool MFT tables are designed also to work with bench dogs. When using the bench dogs and a guide rail one can achieve perfectly square cuts every time.
2. With a table that has a perfectly square grid of 20mm holes, one can design and use add on accessories to the table such as Ron Paulk has with his benches. The use of those add on accessories is dependent on a perfectly square grid of 20mm holes as one accessory has to line up with the holes on your bench.
3. And even the use of the Woodpecker clamping jigs shown in this video predicate that the holes be perfectly aligned. It could become quite frustrating trying to put those jigs on your table if you need them in a place where the holes got a little off.
tightening
tolerance
Love the fireplace in the shop. Nice.
Just a heads up. I've got the OF1400. From the factory/when it was new, the bit wasn't centered in a guide bushing. The only way to fix it is to send it in to Festool service, (which is what I did to no avail, they couldn't or wouldn't fix it), or fix it yourself. I fixed mine by making 2 notches in the guide bushing plate thereby exposing the screws that hold the ring that holds the plate. You'll also have to remove 2 tiny pins that make moving the ring impossible. I have a video showing what I did.
A good practice with any brand of router is to check your router with a centering mandrel before using a guide bushing. If it isn't center there's a good chance your finished product won't be accurate.
I thought for $625 the OF1400 was the router to have because of the precision, so what did Festool say was the reason for the misalignment?
@@ronmurphy4234
I never got an explanation. They sent it back still not properly aligned and carelessly thrown into the systainer on its side. I blew my top when I unboxed it. I could see where they attempted to elongate the holes for the 2 tiny pins so they could move the ring that holds the guide bushing plate but it still wasn't aligned.
The OF1400 is a nice router with stellar dust collection but one thing I wish it had was LED lights. If my OF1400 goes kerflooey I might check out a Bosch router.
@@ThekiBoran I was also looking at the Bosch MRC23EVSK, I like the LED lights and the "normal" handle position... I was just trying to eliminate routers, I have a D-Handle and a Plunge this could replace.
@@ronmurphy4234
If the OF1400 had LED's I'd say get it but since it doesn't I'm not so sure. How's the dust collection on the Bosch? That's a big deal and the festool is really good at that. One of the first jobs I did with the OF1400 was to rout several hundred 20mm holes in my MDF work top. Not a speck of dust anywhere in the shop. On the other hand another job was routing mortises for soss-type hinges in a baseball display case. Would have been easier with LED's. I'd say the handles on the 1400 are good. I feel like I've got good control of it when using it. Other than the kapex I don't regret any of my festool purchases.
@@ThekiBoran : I'm sure it's not as good as the OF1400, but I use a shop vac and not a $1,000 Festool vac system. What didn't you like about the Kapex?
This method works really well when you add a straight edge/fence to the edge of the template. A minor rotation and slight oversize of the holes can propagate to some imprecision - so practice first if you want to get more precision or have a lot of holes. Also, I found that the routing goes a lot easier if I drill out most of the holes with an undersized bit first. This method also works well for thicker and non-MDF tops (like hardwood, plywood, laminate).
What do you mean by a straight edge/fence to the edge of the template. Did you actually fasten something to the edge of the template. Explain in a little more detail, please. I have used my Woodpeckers template to make two work surfaces and once you get away from the corner, there is enough slop in the fit of the "plugs" that inaccuracies do develop. When I used my big Woodpeckers square and four bench dogs the holes weren't square on either one.
Austin - sorry for the overdue reply. I did use a low-profile straight edge (clamped down), and made sure the template was always against it. If you think about the effect of a little bit of slop and the number of times you move the template, it’s best to reduce the degrees of freedom in movement. That said, it’s woodworking, and some tolerance for error (1/32” or so) seems fair game. 4 times that (by propagation of errors), and it’s 1/8” - fairly noticeable.
@@austinphillips9802 I had the same problem with mine. If I had known this was an issue beforehand I would have purchased the Parf System instead. The red index pins/dogs have a lot of play in the jig as well. SMH.
@@brianb3107 same here. I am a novice woodworker and in spite of my best efforts to maintain alignment, the slop in the holes and index pins resulted in a sub-optimal layout. I don’t know if this was a result of the jig itself, or my lack of routing expertise. I would seek out the parf system as well before attempting again. Given my level of expertise, I believe that system is a better fit for me.
@@jonhoffm it's the jig... I had my clamped to a festool guide rail, and it still moves. Wishing I would've just got the parf guide system instead. First Woodpeckers product I've been disappointed with.
These videos are great!
They are awesome and Jeff is one of THE best instructors there is. Also, the owner of Woodworkers (Richard Hummel) is a born genius; and that is one of the things that make "Woodpeckers" one of THE best suppliers, in the world, of items for us woodworkers.
So I say "A tip of the hat" to Jeff and Richard. They are truly a "Cut" above, with out doubt.
Note: I do NOT work for Woodpeckers, nor am I any kin to anyone in the company. I just love their products. Been buying things from them since they opened.
Just a comment about economics in the workshop. I have two Festool MFT tables because you can never have enough horizontal surface to lay things down. In about twelve years, I have replaced one top. I make sure I don’t cut more than about 5mm into it when using my track saw and I use the flip down track which is registered against stops at each end so that there remains only one saw kerf in the table top. I do have the large Woodpeckers triangle and I use it before every set-up to make sure the track and fence are at a perfect 90. When doing glue-ups or finishing, I always cover the table with a sheet of plastic. You could easily get 20 years out of one table top because when one side gets ragged you flip it over to the fresh side.
James, I agree, for the most part. The table I replaced in the video is an embarrassing number of years old and should have been replaced years ago. I'm not as careful as you are, but still did my best to keep the table usable. My biggest issue is that after years of use the table is sagging badly. I made my new table out of MDO plywood instead of MDF. I think it will hold up better. I also have used the Hole Boring Jig to build other work surfaces. Even if you only use it a few times in your shop career, this jig has a quick ROI and opens up a lot of design options for your shop equipment.
@@WoodpeckersLLC Yes, I think the real value of having this Hole Boring jig is making various other work surfaces that can accept the various hold down devices, bench pucks, etc., either on the market or shop-made ones. I am one of those who, after building a beautiful maple workbench nine years ago, did not want it full of dog holes.
One of the primary functions of a MFT is perfect alignment of the 20mm dogholes and this jig appears to have far too much slop to produce that.
I've got a MFT3 and other custom tops I've made with the parf-guide and they're great to drop dogs in, butt my tracksaw rail against, and make square/repeatable cuts. This jig is basically ideal for creating a good/quick clamping station.
As a guy who owns multiple Woodpecker squares/jigs and enjoys them, I'm actually surprised a half-baked jig like this was even released as the hallmark of the brand is accuracy.
The ideal MFT jig solution in my mind is a bigger version of the parf-guide system that allows you to use a router and bore multiple holes without moving the jig so frequently...the biggest downside of the parf-guide is all the drilling and moving of the guide, but the accuracy and lack of real competition in the space makes it worth it IMO.
Cheers!
Okay, here's where we're at. We know that I failed to clamp the template at least once. We also know I used a Festool 1400 where the guide bushing moves an appreciable amount. Even with those two issues I laid the factory table on top of my finished table and pinned them together with dogs and it was exactly the same as the factory table. Not one single pair of holes failed to line up with each other. About 1/3 of the holes were slightly oversized (from the guide bushing movement, I would guess). Look for a follow-up Deep Dive within the next few weeks. I'm going to get a set of rail dogs, test this table, and make a new table using a different router and better clamping discipline and test that one.
As a clamping platform, I have complete confidence in the table I made in the video. The over-sized holes may keep it from being a top-notch cutting platform. We'll see when the rail dogs get here.
@@WoodpeckersLLC I appreciate the thorough reply! I agree that your jig is a good way to make a great clamping station quickly...I’m addicted to all the options the dog holes offer. I’ve bored 20mm dog holes into every work surface in my shop..even considering cutting some into the wing of my SawStop!
You guys are onto something using a router to cut the 20mm holes vs guides that use a drill...like I said, I’d love to see the woodpecker take on the parf-guide with a bigger/quicker system that implements the router. Maybe a guide big enough to layout an entire row of holes without constantly moving the jig?
Cheers!
Actually, the (original) MFT does NOT use the holes for referencing cuts- both the fence and the rail are referenced to the aluminium frame, and are adjustable to obtain a square cut. The holes are (originally) meant for clamping only.
You're shop is extremely neat
Thanks, but not always! lol
I’ve seen other videos that the plate has some play when it’s no clamped to the table
Can it be used to do the first row 32mm from the edge?
I bought this, and I find that even with 3 dogs in the jig. It still wobbles around a bit. I have the 20mm dogs. They fit tight in the hols of the bench, but kid of loose in the template
A 4 or 5 cut test would be nice to see.
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
There's NONE finer than Jeff Ferris; when it comes to teaching how to do it..
Now I have to buy something else.... another great video 👏
How thick is the MDF? Would you do a 5 cut test to show how accurate the holes are cut.
The standard is the 3/4" nominal MDF or plywood.
Michael, I don't use the holes for cutting. I follow the manufacturer's recommendation and align the fence to a square, like we showed last week. The holes are for workholding.
@@WoodpeckersLLC then why bother with the precision? If you just want to stabilize work pieces you don’t need alignment precision just enough holes. You could add them randomly as needed, no?
@@michaelkaye4998 great answer 👏
@@michaelkaye4998 Absolutely. This is the elephant in the room. Claims are made for accuracy of dog hole grids that are clearly (to an engineer) nonsense. If pressed, none of the suppliers will say that their systems achieve this. A large template (ideally full size, but half will do) carefully used to machine a Baltic ply table (MDF will not do) will give sufficient accuracy for most purposes. For the main cutting geometry always use the same dog holes and have an adjustable fence (or rail connectors) and calibrate.
In this application, why not use the old MFT top as a template to get the spacing for the edge holes and then use the jig for the remaining holes? Wouldn't that eliminate the initial measuring for locating the jig when drilling the perimeter holes? Nice job! Great videos!
Lou, not sure how you would use the old top, since the holes are exactly the finished dimension. The holes in the template accommodate the guide bushing.
@@WoodpeckersLLC You could use a spiral up cut flush trim bit and use the old mft as a template.
@@TGH1966 I attempted what you proposed and while it does work there are problems with it, the main one being that you have to prebore undersize and then trim out the waste. it took way more time than I expected
@@jpgro2 If you use a existing 2096 top and a top bearing 1/2" pattern bit you can remake your existing top. While it may take a little bit more time, you don't have to buy a jig to do it. It is basically doing what this jig does, without having to move the jig. You should be able to make the new top even faster that way.
@@brucestarr4438 I did not have a complete top. just a corner I made off an existing top.
Excellent! Discovered your videos and look forward to watching more. Purchased the new table l-saw miter gauge + fence thank s to your demonstration.
New sub! Thank you
I would have some doubts about the accuracy : at 9:29 we can see the jig moving relative to the plate being drilled. Did you check the equidistance and orthogonality of the holes ?
Alain, as I've mentioned in other comments, as a clamping platform absolute precision is not necessary. I forgot to clamp the template on that set of holes, which was a mistake. I am not going to obsess over getting the holes absolutely perfect when there is a factory approved and designed method for alignment that does not rely on the holes.
If it mattered the test would be to overlap the jig with the first and last set of holes. Reality is the holes are for alignment, over time they will wear and if used for alignment add to inaccuracies.
@@WoodpeckersLLC If you offset the 20mm pins into a triangle, instead of a straight line, it holds the jig firmly. Yeah, you have to move the jig a few more times, but you get a more accurate layout. If you want to check this, put the jig on your finished top and see the difference when you have 20mm pins in two rows vs one row. When they're all in one row, you can rock the jig. Triangulate the pins and it doesn't rock.
@@brucestarr4438 this would be great in the instructions. I used this jig for my last workbench, and because of size clamps weren’t always possible, or at the time I didn’t have clamps that I could use in the holes I previously bored and was not near an edge. Anyway, the jig does move quite a bit which also led to wildly varying hole dimensions. This is likely the only woodpecker tool I ever bought that I was less than 100% satisfied with. However it was all user error if I’m fair. By the end of the table I figured out how to get more accuracy and consistency, but it took a whole table top to figure it out. A video showing all the ways to go wrong might actually be more helpful to the end user.
@@brucestarr4438 I just received this jig and am having all kinds of movement. When you trianglate the pins how far apart are you going?
I've ordered one of these jigs unfortunately it's backordered I have to wait till the end of July can't wait
Jeff, what I was really hoping for at the end of the video was a demonstration of the accuracy of the holes the jig will produce. For example, if you had placed a dog in each of two long end hole last and one of the middle holes in line with them and then shown them to a known straight edge and verified the holes to be in line within a .010 tolerance along the length of the table, and then again with a square to prove to squareness of the holes, THAT would prove the jig’s value. But without this we cannot take for granted that there will be no accumulated drift/error as one moves the plate down the table. And the straightness and squareness of the finished holes is the ENTIRE point of the jig. Otherwise any even marginal WWer can contrive a system for getting evenly spaced 20 mm holes “pretty darn close”. This either gets them dead on or doesn’t. If it does, please show us!
It’s not sold to be accurate per Woodpeckers description and they never claim accuracy. The only jig on the market to make accurate holes is the Parf MK2. The Woodpeckers jig was created to just replicate the hole pattern with the expectation that you wouldn’t use dogs to align track for square cuts but rather use the Festool MFT fence or just use dog holes for clamping.
I purchased both and sold the Woodpeckers as it’s an inferior jig in terms of accuracy.
Great video! Is the metric the only option for the holes. Are imperial sizes an option? Thanks.
There are two hole sizes available, 20mm and 3/4", but the spacing center to center is the same...96mm...just slightly over 3-3/4".
@@WoodpeckersLLC Thank you.
What is that "silver" piece called that the bushings screw into? Thanx
That is the guide bushing adapter that is part of the standard accessory pack with the Festool 1400. It accepts all Porter-Cable style guide bushings.
What brand of router bit is that?
I received this in January and sent multiple messages via your website asking what the proper hole diameter is in the template with no response. With no response I decided I to try to return it but it was now the 30th day since ordering so I sent another message asking if I could return it with no restocking fee. Haven't heard anything back yet.
Call. Pretty sure you won't have any problems.
i bought this product this days,and want to know what size of router bit did I need ,I use festool of2200
I recently picked this up after finding out it’s one of the cheaper MFT template option in the US. I don’t think I’m a fan. I hope there’s a version 2, and that Woodpecker changes a couple things to improve the product.
I would like to see the kit come with 1 guide bushing that is a perfect match for the hole, either 30mm hole with 30mm bushing or some other imperial measurement. That way the user can choose a 20mm or 3/4” Forstner or router bit, and then a single plunge movement would need to be made instead of the circular motion needed to ream out the hole. The circular reaming motion is causing the template to move so slightly to where my holes are not quite snug enough.
Unless there’s already a bushing on the market that fits perfectly, then I would prefer to use that one, but I haven’t found one yet.
Thanks for the tutorial - I have a Festool 2200 router, which bushing adaptor should I use?
One should have been included with your 2200 that accepts any Porter-Cable style guide bushing. The guide bushing is included with the kit.
Looks great will have to pick one up. Wondering why up cut is better then down cut for the bit though?
Not a huge difference, but down cut doesn't evacuate the chips as well and works against the dust collection, where up-cut works with it.
Thank you for sharing
This is exactly what I’m looking for! Perfect looking jig by a reputable brand. Please find a way to ship to Australia within reasonable prices 🙏. We need this jig!
i bought it direct from Woodpeck and shipped to Sydney. Shippings not cheap so I bought a ridge carbide blade and a few other things at the same time
The template could do with being a bit larger- incrementally 'walking' a template across the table gives increasing errors.
And the index pins should be set as far from each other as possible- it is clear from watching you inserting them that they are far from tight, so there is a location tolerance which increases the closer the pins (actually dowels in engineering terms) are.
Dimensional accuracy is not as important as often made out for these tables- especially with MDF which is not very stable dimensionally, but one should try for as accurate a result as the system permits.
agree. this doesn't seem accurate. also, I would rather use a router bit with a bearing which instead of a guide bushing, the bearing is concentric with the bit, while the guide busing is not and contributes to the increasing errors you mentioned.
@@ionut5316 You are right- I have cut dog holes using a template with 20mm holes and a 'trim' bit- with an integral bearing. I actually used very slightly undersized dimensions, and finished off with a hand reamer. gives a more precise sized hole. Gives pretty accurate results- I have measured the spacing using gauge blocks (which are accurate to nanometers...) I used Baltic ply instead of MDF of course- much better stability over time. Using 20mm holes means that you can register the template using these, removing another source of inaccuracy.
Is there no response/comments from Woodpecker Tools?
@@Tensquaremetreworkshopwhat sort if undersized bit are you referring to? Like 19.9mm or something? Are such bits even available? Cheers
@@Advcrazy they are not cut with bits. The template is CNC cut with a carbide end mill, so whatever size is desired- I use 19.9. Transferred with a trim router, so the same size, within tolerances, then reamed for high accuracy.
How do I decide between the two diameter holes? I want to build a MFT outfeed / assembly table for my newly acquired SawStop PCS.
Stanley, if you have Festool hold downs and clamps, 20mm is the better choice. Several North American manufacturers make stops, hold downs and clamps in 3/4" and some folks already have a collection of them. If you're starting from scratch, take a look at the clamping and stop options available and decide which one you prefer before you decide which size hole to go with.
Hello again from México city "Hi"
Really great video!
I'm in Denmark so all tools are in mm... Can you advice on the mm equivalent to the 1/2" spiral up cut ?
Thank you...
12.7
One more for the woody woodpecker...what is the relevance of the 96mm hole spacing...why not 100mm?
Multiples of 32mm have been standard in European woodworking and cabinetmaking for decades. Not sure there's a good answer to "why", it just "is".
Seems silly that the index pins and clamps block you from routing the adjacent holes. Just like any other system for doing this, every time you have to move the template/rulers(Parf) you add an error to tye next bunch of holes. Also, it looks like those red indexing pins don’t fit particularly snug? Without out being a firm fit I can only imagine that there would be quite an error if one wanted to do say a 14x10 bench top (so this small jig had to be moved loads of times)
Im making a 4x8 now. It's more of an assembly table so I'm not throwing myself off a bridge over total accuracy.
First off. I suck at routing!
I'm almost a half sheet in.. I rocked the router (of1400) numerous times so some holes are pretty sloppy I thought but, then I put some dogs in the Festool mft3 and they really aren't that tight.
After watching this again I think Im blasting through too fast as well.
Im calling this a practice run so I'm not gonna badmouth the product yet.
Edit: The indexing pins are tight as long as your holes aren't sloppy
Now if WPs was really dialed in this would include alignment pins that work with the Parf guide layout holes. Router is a better method for the actual 20, 3/4 holes than the Parf auger bit. Assuming the Parf has same spacing.
Actually the PARF system uses a forstner bit, but I agree that a router is better- the PARF system relies on a single bearing for alignment. But the PARF system was not based on engineering- if you query the accuracy to the company selling it, they will list all the sources of inaccuracy involved. Do NOT believe the claims in videos for this system.
The best approach for home use is a CNC cut table, the second best a CNC cut template that is table size. As the template reduces in size, the accuracy also reduces. If the holes are to be used for alignment (rather than clamping) do NOT use MDF- it is not stable enough. (The Festool MFT does not use the holes for this- it indexes off the frame.)
Pretty slick. How does it do on a 5 cut test?
Does not matter, since the manufacturer states (above) that the holes are for clamping only, not referencing cuts.
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop ''''20mm holes on 96mm centers. In this 11 minute video, Jeff Farris welcomes you into his shop as he makes a new top for his MFT ''''''.......'Made special for track saw.....20 on 96..This table can be max 0,021789 degree off (700 mm 5 cut), this expensive board is just not good enough to do the job.
@@xinixxagnix201 Not quite sure what point you are trying to make- but MDF is just not suitable as a reference for precise cuts. There is a reason that table saws of quality always have a cast iron surface.
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop lol a MDF CNC milled 30 dollar MFT is more accurate as a 20k saw...... As i mentioned 0,021789 degree off on a 700mm 5 cut.....That is perfect for all jobs.....But this WP jig is over the top price wise, for that money you got the Parf systeem..
@@xinixxagnix201 Measuring a piece of wood to five significant figures is nonsense on stilts. If you do not understand why, ask an engineer- or a physicist.
Ok thats what i thought..the offset is arbitrary and has basically no meaning ...thank you...what do you recommend me machining the 25mm holes to..25mm 25.1mm..are the dogs undersized or exactly 25mm?..there needs to be a somewhat slip fit but nice and snug ...im going to make a jig and buy the dogs...so im trying to find out what my jig dog holes should measure.
Hi woody woodpecker...ive seen numerous version/designed jigs...it seems 96mm hole pattern is common and 25mm and 30mm dog holes...however the rest of the jig varies widely...why does the starting point offset matter or no matter?..some jigs have start alignment holes some dont.
The 70mm offset starting point is only important if you're trying to make a replacement top for a Festool MFT/3.
Hi woodpecker...is 70mmx70mm offset the most common current and preferred design?
It is the offset of Festool's MFT/3 table. If you're making a custom table you can make the starting offsets whatever you want them to be by using spacers against the edges to reposition the corner hole.
I’ve messed up two bench tops trying to get a perfectly square grid of holes with this jig. It’s fine if you’re just going to use the holes for clamping. Very frustrating.
User error
Jeff what did you do to get the bushing to fit the adapter plate on the festool router? I have the MFT hole boring jig and the included brass ring doesn't fit the router adapter hole. The ring is too large to fit the adapter.
Contact Customer Service for a replacement. We had a few that were within tolerance for everything except Festool. We changed the dimension slightly and now it works for all.
I bought the 3/4" hole version some time back. Hoe can I use it to do 20mm holes? Guessing need the right guide bushing for one, though don't know the size. Do I need new indexing pins as well?
Ron, you're right, you'll need both a new guide bushing and new indexing pins. Call customer service. I'm pretty sure they can sell you just what you need.
What table top wood is this?
MDO Plywood (Medium Density Overlay). It's what most outdoor billboards are made from. The top veneer is either a thin layer of MDF or a resin impregnated paper...depending on what brand you're getting. Very nice stuff for shop furniture. It's flat, stable, smooth and relatively inexpensive (compared to other sheet goods).
Hallo please can you help me? I can t get the copying ring for the Festool of 1400 what you use in the video in Germany?
It is standard equipment in North America.
At 9:30 after the pin removed the whole jig moved
I wish Woodpeckers released this before I dropped a big bunch more $$$ on my Parf Guide system. This actually looks a lot easier to use, and equally as accurate, AND with the Woodpeckers system, you're not limited to 20mm, which is slightly larger than 3/4. It's not very easy to find find 20mm accessories, or affordable.
Your Parf Guide system is more accurate, though. I have the Woodpeckers template and once you get away from the corner and into the field of the workpiece there are inaccuracies in the Woodpeckers system. There is enough slop in the fit of the "plugs" that the accuracy suffers. I've used mine to make two work surfaces and when I was done I used my big Woodpeckers square with four bench dogs and the holes were not square.
This cant possibly be as accurate as the parf system, and the price is the same , its a no brainer, parf system for the win
How about after you’ve used your Parf system, sell it to me used. Then you can re-invest that money in this woodpecker version later if you want to make yet another top? Totally serious btw.
@@reedrobinson9081 but I dont want the woodpecker system?
Its useless to my needs
@@billystray7007 Sorry, I was intending to direct my comment to @PaganWizard
I like this method very much! Do you guys make inch and metric versions of all your mft tools and accessories? I'd like to make one but don't want to limit it's flexibility because I increased its usefulness scale-wise.
The template can make 20mm or 3/4" holes, but the spacing is still 96mm
@@WoodpeckersLLC ah, interesting. Maybe for the sake of add-ons I should stick to the standard then.
Curious, couldn't you have used your old tabletop as a template?
Can't. the template hole is bigger
Probably if you used a flush trim router bit.
The very first woodpecker tool I’ve ever owned that I’m VERY VERY underwhelmed with. I literally ruined a sheet of 3/4. Jig is very sloppy. It’s easy when doing edges because of the pins but when having to do center it just dose t work. The red pins are a 1/32 maybe -1/64 thicker than the template. The is makes routing near the red pins a pain in the butt. I feel the one I did by hand with a drill bit is better and more accurate.
I purchased this kit and, frankly was disappointed. You have to use a straitedge and always clamp the jig. Look at the video at ~9:30 that thing is moving all over and results in 20mm holes that often aren't a precision fit. Kicking myself for cheaping out (something I thought I'd never say with Woodpeckers) and not just buying the Parf system.
I would like to ask a question about something not related to the video. I have watched your videos and enjoy, but I want to build a rear deck in the rear window of the car for looks and speakers. My question is what type of wood do you think would work best for this project, the car is going to be a show car. Would you please get back with me on this. Maybe you selling the product that I need.
Thanks
Michael McSwain
That's not a very friendly environment for a wooden structure. I would probably use Baltic Birch plywood.
@@WoodpeckersLLC thank you, the car would not be in direct sunlight all the time, just in car shows and the reallys. I told him the same thing. But he was thinking some kind of hardwood, I was thinking maybe some woods from Africa or Australia. He did his chevelle with plastics and cloth and leather, but he just wanted to put wood in his 78 transam. If you have any ideas on something exotic, African iron wood
Thanks
Michael
Why metric offsets and not imperial measurements?
It creates the same pattern as the Festool MFT table.
Incra jig may have something.
Who has a fireplace in their shop? I'd like to know the backstory to that.
Not much back story...it's just my basement.
Only woodpecker purchase I’ve regretted. It’s ok, but takes too long and I had too much play. I wish I had done the lr 32 system or the parf dogs.
I hated this jig. The guide bushing with 1/2 inch bit just compounds over a larger table. In Woodpeckers own words when i returned it that MFT tables are not meant to be accurate. Ive had amazing success with the UJK Parf Guide system. But even though that is a great system i just get my sheets CNC now. Time is money. Takes to long to get a full 4.x8 sheet routed or drilled when it cost my 30 dollars to have a company CNC it for me.
Looks like a great system but the price is just out of my league. $299 is a lot. I love the videos though. Maybe someday Ill be able to afford it.
And that's just for the work holder!! You'd be another $150 or so to buy the template jig first, so you could use the workholder!! Great quality stuff, but wow, expensive!
Just to be clear, the Hole Boring Jig is $199 for the kit that has both 20mm and 3/4". $140 if you only want one size. The Workholding Kit is what I think you're looking at for $299. It is pretty expensive, but there's a lot to that kit.
As for making a top...the jig is less expensive than one Festool replacement top...and it will last forever.
Why not reference the holes using the old table.
why 96mm?
It would be better to use a 20mm hinge boring bit with a 10mm collet reducer. That way you are actually drilling a hole, not routing it.
My brother bought this router bit and 20mm system was terribly inaccurate. We could not make it accurate. Way way too much play. Returned it and got the part guide. About the same price. Parf guide came with drill bit. Not much price difference about $200. Parf guide slower but way more accurate
So disappointing compared to Parf guide
The information is very informative. Having to hear it over background music is as annoying as the content is good. Please just let the guy talk.
I have to amend a previous comment I made about the inaccuracy of this jig. After watching Peter Millard, ruclips.net/video/9DhLQPrjnik/видео.html, one of the kits he reviewed came with aluminum tape to tune the fit. I did the same with the woodpeckers jig. Using two wraps of aluminum tape I got the fit so snug there is zero slop in the holes with my bench dogs. There is still some minor movement between the woodpecker dogs and the phenolic plate. So you have to push/pull the plate to one side and secure it with a clamp before routing the holes. I found that if I always push/pull the plate in the same direction every time I moved the plate, my holes were exactly 96mm apart and square. I hope this helps anyone who purchased this jug and is having trouble with the accuracy of it.
Which aluminum tape exactly did you use?
It is a little bit of a "snowball" effect. If you don't clamp the template down, any movement whatsoever results in a larger hole. Then that hole gets used as an index, it allows even more movement, and the result is even larger holes. While I don't have any argument against shimming, I think clamping the template each and every time it is moved is the most significant thing you can do to make this system effective.
@@RobyWanKenobi The tape you find in the HVAC isle of any big box home improvement store.
@@WoodpeckersLLC I did clamp the template down before routing. The problem is the holes are too big for a 20mm dog. The shimming is to correct the size of the bushing. I can correct the looseness of the template by using a square before clamping the template down . Though after shimming the bushing, there was almost no movement in the template. What you can't correct with squares and clamping is the looseness in the holes that are too large to be accurate when using tracks and fences made for the MFT system. You could improve the kit by either increasing the size of the bushing a few thousandths or include tape to shim the busing to the desired fit.
@@WoodpeckersLLC my concern is with the play you may be clamping it out of square to the previous holes?
Présentation moyenne, c'est de la copie festool. Même le serre joint est caché par du scotch... Lol