Lies. There is another; SOMA. No shit. When i did complete it, i was left thinking for 30 mins "Im real? Or im just a copy of someone who died a lot of decades ago?"
One of the few games that actually made me stop and think about life. I love the themes, the lore, the music, the characters, the spells and the story.
I'm just confused why this video isn't about NieR:Automata. Then again, not everyone plays every game you play. So if anyone hasn't played automata, can't recommend it enough. Especially if you like philosophy or depressing games.
@@rickyray2794 Disco Elysium is definetly much appreciated for British Sea Power music, among hundreds of other reasons why that game is so awesome! (Still want to finish it).
@@simonefiumicini 100% so many pieces of media out there or course some people miss some, not to mention great pieces from early in history that no matter how old shouldn't be spoiled so fresh audiences can have the real experience.
Well, keeping in mind that this game didn't sell enough and is catching popularity now, then spoiler warning is mandatory I only saw the cover and like Max, I don't like top view games like this one, but now that I know what it goes about, I will buy it and give it a try
You've made me want to buy and play a 24-years old game which I've never heard of, from a genre I never played and that bears almost no mechanics of the kind of games I like. Thank you, I'm adding Planescape: Torment to my wishlist immediately
@@Zanzibawrr haven't played it yet! I got a huge backlog and not that much free time. I'm currently going back and forth between classic and recent games. Just beat the first Super Mario Bros. lol I think I got Planescape through Prime gaming, but I want to be in the right mood and moment to check it out.
The potential of games for communicating philosophy are enormously powerful and I am truly shocked of how unaware the academic community is of this phenomenon :D
the most recent example of this phenomena that I know of is the Nier game series. Specially NieR Automata is filled with philosophical riddles and talk
My job as an academic is not primarily to communicate philosophy or scientific achievements/knowledge to the public, it's a task we should do but believe me, there's no money in it. A select few can make a career of it but mostly outside academia. My primary job is to create new knowledge and publish it so it gets spread inside academia. And quantity is prioritized before quality, always. That's just how the system is rigged.
@@StarStew Bioshock is another good one. Having a game use the fact that it's a linear game to make a comment about lack of free will was pretty much a genius stroke.
I really enjoy my time in Disco Elysium but I feel like I want to wait for a second playthrough so I can enjoy a totally different playthrough while not remembering everything
Remember at the Keighley Awards when the makers of Disco Elysium gave thanks to Engels and the bum who mooched off of Engels, Marx? That was pretty funny.
Planescape Torment is by far my favourite game of all time. I'm surprised that Baldur's Gate series made such a big success as well as OG Fallout series while Torment was and still is kinda niche. I guess this game is a masterpiece, a form of art, that not everyone can relate to or understand hence the modest popularity.
I think Fallout(the first one) comes close at times when it comes to exploring a central theme and being mature about it, though P:T is leagues above every other RPG in that regard.
Baldur's Gate has more mass appeal. It's just a typical fantasy story about beating the bad guy and winning the game. Most people, if they tried to play Torment, they'd completely fail to understand it on anything more than a purely superficial level and not have enough curiosity to want to understand it better than that. They'd fuckin scratch their noggins and go "Uh, okay, wtf???" and then never play it or think bout it ever again.
This, Baldurs Gate and the Fallout 1&2 were the games that turned video games into live worlds for me, they made me fall in love with them, the form of art that can include all arts. I would recommend Disco Elysium and Tyranny for a more recent and amazing ride into the genius of their creators.
Disco Elysium is like a poetic modern political take on a handful of factions of Torment and it's still my favorite game of the last decade easily. If only they didn't fuck up internally they'd be the ones to finally make sth of the same philosophical scale of P:T...
I played planescape instead of baldurs gate because I thought the combat would be easier to understand and I wanted the story, right on both fronts Ever played arcanum, it's by some of the same people, it's on my list
When I took up DMing, The plane chart in the back of the 5E DMG captivated me. I sought out the original Planescape materials from D&D 2E. It was one of the most enriching journeys I ever took, and immensely broadened my ideas of what game design could engage with.
@@taz0k2 It's up there for me. Dragon Kings for Dark Sun was another highlight; both gave me that "AHA, so THAT'S what's going on" feeling, and implicitly taught a reader how to deliver the same revelatory feeling
I saw this video and directly went to play the game. It was one of the best experiences I have had playing a video game in a while. The content in this game is out of the charts and the stories and their impact on the character are amazing. I love the way every companion hides some part of the world from you and revealing it not only makes you closer to them but stronger as well. I literally can't think of a complaint with this game and I believe the question posed is one that is truly justified in the end. Loved to meet the side characters who had such great characterizations as well. It surely lives up to the title of the most philosophical game of all time. I would love it if you would cover more topics from the game like the teachings of Zerthimon. Also, ranking the factions would be an amazing video.
Truth is, even if you know what’s going to happen, going through how you got to whatever point the game brings you to the end, the how of it is probably more. It’s not a game for everyone for sure. Way ahead of its time.
I have ADHD and its really hard to be engaged in a single video game for long (even if I'm a vivid gamer...). Even with its archaic controls and gameplay directions Planescape: Torment grabbed me with such strength that I played all the way to the very end. From my thousands of games played to this day, Planescape: Torment is without a doubt one of the most special and will always have a place on my hearth. It's not a game, is a life experience.
I misread your first sentence and kept wondering why owning the venerable Advanced Dungeons&Dragons (AD&D) ruleset kept you from being engaged in video games. I guess contemplating the Planescape setting forced me into a mindset :P
no you dont. you have dicipline problem. the fact you can finish a game that you care aboiut enough, shows you dont have adhd. this terrm is thrown around too much, and is used as excuses by the current generation, so they dont have to beheld accountable for anything. Hey, I adhd, its not my fault....etc....turn off your pc and video games for a month, exercise daily, and dont eat sugar. it will transform your life. literally. i gaurantee you, your adhd stmptoms will dissapear.
My only regret about this game is that I got it when I was 11. I'm not from English speaking country (and my parents didn't even learned English, so title wasn't help either) and had fully localized version (with different box art, I think), so I wan't aware it was waaaaay above my age, both thematically and mechanically (got stuck at Mortruary). But hey, it had 10/10 brand of approval from biggest gaming mags in my country (and that included TREMENDOUS translation by CD Project). Picked it years later and had blast.
I experienced the same thing playing Metal Gear as a kid. Didn't know english, just pew pew everything lol. But tbf I started learning english on my own playing Final Fantasy IX. It had so much dialogue I didn't want to miss the story so I played with a dictionary.
@@RafitoOoO Similar story here, my father didn't want me to waste time on video games, so even though translations were available, I had to install everything in English and play with a dictionary next to the keyboard. And it worked, I'm a professional translator now.
And CD Project localization was way better than original dialogues, especially Ravel.... Good old times, since CDP no longer do such grandiose localization's.
The game's power comes from tabletop version. Planescape is one of the best written campaign settings. I was able to put my players into a situation that they argued "how is it possible to change human nature". This was the most satisfying moment of my life. Nice video, keep up the good work!
This game is one that has (and forever will) stuck with me, I honestly wish I could forget the entire game and play it again. Just so I could play it all over again.
The Bleak Cabal is probably my favorite faction, tho they don't really show up in Torment much. I'd consider myself an optimistic one tho. The main reason WHY I like them, is cuz of the way they care for others, no matter how pointless or hopeless it may seem, they try to make shit better.
I'd love to see more videos analysing the unique lore and setting of Planescape. In particular, I'd really like to see videos from you about the teachings of Zerthimon and about Dak'kon, who is literally a defining character in D&D history and yet very few people remember him! See, in the tabletop, originally, the githzerai where characterized as a Chaotic Neutral race of anarchists, to the point that one of their racial mechanics was a prohibition against playing them with a Lawful alignment. They were also defined largely as mirror-images of their rivals, the githyanki, with the most important character in their lore being Zaerith Menyar-Ag-Gith, a wizard-king who was basically a gender-flip of the githyanki's lich-queen Vlaakith - Zerthimon was a minor "mythical" character largely revered by a small pseudo-priesthood of warrior-wizards called "zerths". Dak'kon's Lawful alignment was supposed to mark him as a contradictory, self-tormented character, an oddity on par with Fall-From-Grace the celibate succubus. But Dak'kon's portrayal, and the Teachings of Zerthimon invented for this game, redefined the githzerai, resulting in their portrayal from 3rd edition onwards as Lawful Neutral philosophers and spiritualists, literally remolding them in Dak'kon's image.
I only know about one of theany DnD universes from 1d4chan, and in that universe the planes of reality are arranged like alignment chart. E: turns out that universe is the planescape universe.
@@WisdomThumbs they didn't flanderize they made an already flanderized race into two opposing philosophies the followers of Zerth and the followers of Gith.
One thing I've always loved about the original Nameless One's riddle is that Ravel's curse is literally the answer to it. Having someone routinely lose their memories and start a new life, and seeing what happens, is the only way to answer that question. She can't just refuse his request without also never seeing the answer to her question. Perfect "back a genie into a corner" wish.
I think the reason why both Ravel and the Trascendant One can't answer the riddle is because they are both immortal. They see mortals as transient beings, forever doing the same things and making the same mistakes, they have a gimpse of every possible answer but they CAN'T belive in any of those answers, because belief in them comes from the innevitabilty of death. Belief, the search of truth, comes from a mortal need to give meaning to life. The Trascendant One has the knowledge of every Nameless one, but he doesn't have their truth. They saw how each one of the Nameless Ones answered the question in their life, to the Transcendant One every one of those truth was on the same level and all of them were wrong, that's why they think NOTHING can change the nature of a man. If I remember right, Ravel also was stuck in a false dilemma, she wanted someone to love her, but she didn't understood love itself.
@@estebanrodriguez5409 excellent answer, but also the riddle answer is pretty easy if you think about it. It is either nothing or age, you require time to experience any of the others.
@@robbie5181 both nothing and age are wrong. There are many people that never change in the lives AND live long lives... so it's false that age changes the nature of people. And "nothing" is equally false, just find ANY person whose nature has changed. The point of the riddle, is that ANY one thing is going to be false for everybody, so it has to be the underlying thing among all the correct answers.
Please please please make series of this game. It’s the first time I even hear about it and I am enchanted by the lore and plot. Always been a fan of adding heavy philosophical content to any form of media and this is a hidden gem we (I) need to know more of! You’ve been Lliked, subscribed, and belled by this guy
The Bleak Cabal ("the multiverse is meaningless, so we may as well take care of one another") who run the madhouse and soup kitchen sort of charity work are my favorite faction. But I've only played the tabletop RPG, haven't gotten around to this game yet.
I was a huge D&D and Baldur's Gate fan when this came out and can say that I was one of the 37k who first bought it as soon as it hit the shelves. I was not disappointed it was one of the most surreal and immersive experiences I've ever had with a game. I've played through it dozens of times since.
after playing BG1 at a friends house my dad finally got a PC that could run these games. I rushed to the store to buy BG1, but it was no longer sold. The store worker told me that this game was made by the same company so I bought this instead (I was kinda hesitant because the box art with the blue rastafari didn't look that appealing) but I was hooked when I played the game! Took me YEARS to meet someone (a co-worker) that also played the game, and we could discuss for hours about the things in this game
I played this when it originally came out and loved it! The lore, weird setting and strange characters...both in your party and the inhabitants of the world. And, yes....such a deep game in the philosophical sense. Luckily, I have a copy and after I watch this....I may embark on learning the nature of my soul....yet, again.
Man that's exactly how i feel and how i view it each time i go back to it, like coming back home, barricaded from the social construct of real life, relationships, struggle, and rejoining my soul, knowing myself deeply and who i am, what i value, and what is true.
@@Cant-Think-Of-Anythink-Better Hell yeah. I'd booted up the original awhile back and it's just sooo janky on modern systems. The Enhanced Edition just flows so much better. And don't forget to invest in Wisdom! And Fell's tattoo parlor has new tats to grab the further ya progress in the story based on your decisions, so definitely check back there after ya meet 'em. xP
Torment came from an era of gaming that was surreal. You had playable game versions of mind horror books such as " I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" and mystery titles like Gabriel. RPG and story based narratives didn't peak before the 2000s, but a lot of them still to this day would push the envelope if they had a wider audience.
I loved this game as a kid and I love it now as an adult. I remember it felt thoughtful and fantastically unique in its storytelling already when I played it as a teenager, and a lot of the more philosophical concepts and themes were not lost on me, but it's definitely very different to play it today. I only recently played Disco Elysium and holy heck that game is good. It feels like a more refined - and obviously more modern - take on a game in the style of Torment. I really liked Mask of the Betrayer, and I quite enjoyed Tides of Numenara as well, but neither game managed to hit that high note of evocative and thoughtful storytelling that Planescape Torment had. Disco Elysium, however, even surpasses it, in many ways.
For those that do not want to play the game but would rather read an unofficial novelization of the book, check wikipedia's entry for Planetscape: Torment and look in the "Adaptations" section. There is a footnote link to the novel there.
The Pepsi Man gag got me. 😂😂😂 I got Torment for my birthday in 2000. I played it and only it for 2 solid years. I never finished it cause I hit a wall. I never got around to playing it again but I still think about it a lot. I was 14 and it was an amazing game and I was chaotic good. I saved people and helped out whoever I could but I stole EVERYTHING!!! 😝 I still do this in my good guy playthroughs but steal everything I want.
@@stevenskates8077 Not going to lie when I was a kid I had sticky fingers. I stole random crap and nothing of real value. I was 16 when I finally got caught. Learned my lesson, joined the army and became a better person. Life imitates art. 😁
Amazing video Max as always. I was introduced to Torment by an older gamer when I suggest to him to play Disco Elysium. So we made a deal that I would play Torment and he would play Disco Elysium. After we met, we talked for hours and after a few month I found out that Torment was one of the major infuilnces on Disco Elysium as well. So give Disco Elysium a try Max, I'm 100% sure you won't regret it.
You are the only content creator that I could not binge. And that is the point. This means I need time to process every video to grasp the complexity of the ideas you put forth in it. Brilliant content, sir!
This man truly is one of the most cultured people on RUclips he know the true value of one of the best games ever made one no human can truly understand but still value PEPISI MAN
Nah, he's rubbish, sorry. Doen't even master his subject, doesn't know what Philosophy is, and mentions philosophy, without even giving justice to the Ultima series, which is pretty much a philosophy simulator video game, just like back then Desert Strike was a "war in Irak accept simulator", video game.
I saw the title, I saw the thumb nail, I clicked the video and without knowing what it was, i said to myself "What can change that nature of --" and then I got cut off. Perfect. Just perfect.
I played this as a 14 year old in 1999. Its is truly one of the few games that has stood qith me since then. Especially reading the unbroken circle of zerthimon, it was enlighten, eye opening, even for an inquisitive 14 year old boy. I replayed it a few years ago as an adult and again, it was the same. A true masterpiece that I advise anyone to play. Please, play this game.
Back when I still had enough patience to enjoy games that you have to read rather than play this was my favourite by far. Thinking of the ending today still makes me emotional.
Great analysis! Regarding my faction of choice, I went with the Godsmen in my last playthrough since they seemed the closest analog to the Stoics (whose teachings made an impression on me three years earlier). They treat reality as a classroom in which one learns the lessons life throws at them and does their best doing so in order to self-actualize.
I would actually love to see more of this game and a dive into the philosophies explored here. The other factions and zones all sound like they have depth and purpose.
Ramdomly clicked looking for great RPG stories and cant believe its Planescape:Torment! Still got my 4cd version and poster because it's still the best RPG I've ever played.
@@maxwellsamuel3255 Agree! Tbh, when I played Disco Elysium for the first time I was shocked that we finally got a game which can compete with those two classics.
Dude, thank you so much for making a video about this game, I really wanted this game to get more recognition, the moment I heard a video titled: The greatest moment in an RPG, I knew I needed to play this game, and when I finished this game , it was the best experience i ever had in a game, its lore and narrative was incredible for me on this game, and I really wanted to let more people know about this game, good job talking about this game.
Glad you finally played this! One interesting tidbit, you're wrong about Fall-From-Grace, although yours is a good surface read. Like every companion she carries a much heavier burden (or "Torment") that you can slowly uncover through quest and dialogue lines over the course of the game. She was formed from Chaotic Evil, but at an early age her mother sold her into slavery for the Baatezu (Lawful Evil), and after years of torture under her masters... She broke. I wouldn't call that enlightened, she's gained no deeper knowledge from her years of abuse, instead she's rebelling against the multiverse itself, a walking beacon of defiance.
Oh man, here we go again. Why I find this video? The memories. This game was/is phenomenal, almost godlike in its storytelling. I finished it many times always the same way, I just cannot help myself and every time it crush me with this strong feeling I could not specify. Maybe it is time to play it again...same way as always :)
I like you take on this old classic. I would like to see you take on one of the ice picked lodge games: Pathologic, the Void or Pathologic 2. These games are quite hard to play because how punishing they are but this "suffering" is integral to the game.
The factions remind me of how their are 6 types of stories, all with their various positions of rise and fall of the character, one perspective of evil (rise to fall) may be relatable more than one perspective of good (fall to rise) even a neutral sense of perspective (rise to fall and on the rise again, reflecting on the dichotomy of the extremes experienced) etc.. all of these would hold no value without death, the end to the story, your story, your life. Each rise and fall brings into perspective the consequence of living and knowing death with the benefit of recognizing your past choices and weather or not you want to accept your final destination (the raw belief idea) as the essential perfect goal for the human length of time it takes to die, for your children to prosper forth and spread.
When I saw the title I immediately knew it was Planescape Torment. Got the game when I was 11 or 12yo. Payled it and returned to it when I was 16yo. I think I was in my mid 20s when I played it the last time but now I’m in my mid 30s and I want to give it a shot. Each time I played I was indeed different. My character was different, my build was different. The decisions I made where different and the outcomes of these decisions were different, so the game was different too. This game has more layers then one might think. I honestly believe this masterpiece got as close to a playable novel as a crpg could ever get. And a good written novel too. It brought feelings and thoughts no other game has ever had before and after. There are so many beautiful and meaningful endings to it.
Hell yeah! Bet that first run was a good one. I've played it maybe three times over and still wanna go back n see what I've missed or misunderstood. The fact that Wisdom as an attribute can do sooo much for you in this game is just so fitting. And the tattoo system.. so good. Pretty sure it has the most lines of dialogue in all of gaming, but I cld be wrong.
I wonder if people that put Disco Elysium in the same place (or higher) as Torment really know about philosophy or they're just enchanted by a game that is all about their political side. Elysium is a joke of a philosophical game, focusing on m*Rx!§t bs and treating the rest of the ideologies it includes in a horrible and dishonest way
Would love more exploration of the themes and facets of this game. Amongst anything, a video about each faction would be majorly interesting. I have read all the faction bios so thank you for providing that link 🙏
Yes, more Planescape. I was awaiting for You to finally reach this game on your search for profound moments and ideas in games. I would say, that the teachings of Zerthimon and the unbroken circle and the actual story behind it create one of the most interesting and life-changing ideas I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Putting it into 'practice' and reviewing my personal philosophy while using those 'teachings' allowed me to take the reins of my life back from depression, thus I may be a hit biased.
I'm going to buy this game and play it right now, it's so cool! I feel close to both the Believers of Source and the Trancendent Order, they seems to be similar to the Teosofic ideas and the teaching of Gurdjieff. Love it!
Been following this channel for a while. Props for actually getting through the entire game. The lore is definitely daunting. I'd love to see a video on dak'kon and the teachings of zerthimon
I love the original D&D Planescape with all the planes of existence, unique creatures from the perfectly lawful mechanus with modrons to the lawful evil devils of the nine hells to the chaos of limbo and even the far realm and the celestial archons of the seven heavens of celestia. It’s what I love most a huge universe (kinda a multiverse) with tons of lore that can give you existential crisises with the amount of philosophy in it.
Great video Max. To answer the question on which faction I liked the sound of most is the Free League. I think it's one that allows the most freedoms because it isn't focused on just a single truth and incorporates being allowed to see all viewpoints to allow yourself to adopt your own truth.
Funny, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic posited this very question of identity and if we are always the same person we used to be. Until now, I thought that was the first game that raised the question, thanks for setting me straight. Love you videos, keep up the good work.
@@pontsenki5301it doesn’t. Kotor 1 which has that reconciliation with the past ending was written by the guy that did ME1 and ME2. Planescape is like Chris Avallones first ever project lead and it was his 2nd year in the games industry. Everybody can pretty much recognize Avallones writing by now since he’s done Kotor2, NV, Neverwinter, FO2, Tyranny, Kingmaker etc. But no he was far removed from Kotor 1 and didn’t even want to touch Kotor 2 initially when Lucasarts and Bioware offered it to Obsidian since he hates star wars. I mean just the massive vibe shift and changes from kotor 1 - 2 is enough to tell that he desperately wanted to shake it up.
That opening footage of store shelves in the late 90s/early 00s really got me feeling some type of way. Where'd you get the footage? I'll sit down and watch a camera roll over PC game shelves in 2001 for longer than I'd like to admit. Oh yeah, Planescape. I've watched a dozen videos on it and I LOVE Disco Elysium, but I think you're the guy who finally got me to install.
Black Isle is king of the dwarves, that's true. As it pretty much surfed on Origin System's success back then, even before your grandparents were born, it seems. "thanks for that Ultima8/Crusader iso3D engine tech, Origin. Now let's produce an heir to ORIGIN's ultima series and use ORIGIN tech to do it. Yes! >> Yall celebrating the padawan here. Heed the moongate, not the stinky finger pointing at it.
Avallone literally did Tyranny and helped the two Pathfinder games recently and is still working in the industry. in fact a lot of those Interplay to Black Isle to Obsidian guys are still around doing things. whether they are good or not is up to you but Avallone practically solod this games story while working on 3 other things in his 2nd year of working in the industry. in fact it was more or less a throwaway project since BG1 was being made upper management needed them to make a dnd game based off planescape in the same engine.
YES I look for new Planescape Torment content every once in a while for years now. This game is special, one of its kind. Its the only game I can say I truly enjoyed. Sole biggest influence on my taste in media. I hope you will feel like its worth your time to analise and make videos on it.
Phenomenal game. I'm only early into the video, but I think you would enjoy Disco Elysium, which was intended as continuing the legacy of Planescape: Torment. I wish you luck in braving the pale: The concept of it was probably the most horrifying thing I've ever heard in all of fiction, and seeing what it has done to people and bonding with them really made me reconsider the very concept of "ground truth" itself in a way years of philosophy classes had not and its the first game I've played which had me and the other people I was sat playing it with on the couch all crying together for reasons none of us could explain or express.
Very nice and well made video, man. I never even considered playing this game before whatching this. You did a great job in presenting the game as a great and rewarding experience. Congrats!
Max, i hope you see this comment, i love your content so much. I myself am an alchemist and your channel helps me sometimes with understanding more about the occult knowledge. I know a anime tv series of a name Mononoke(Not the Mononoke Princess movie) This in an anime you simply must see, it is all of the old japanese myths and spiritual put into a beautiful journey which is one of the most profound media i have ever seen, i would have said more but i think you should see for yourself! Thank you for being so awesome content creator!
Planescape: Torment is my all time favorite game, hands down. That being said, I honestly feel games like Tyranny, Disco Elysium, Underrail, Colony Ship come really, REALLY close.
Tbh agree, maybe i was expecting too mucho bases on the perception that was groundbeealing or some shorts, ot really felt short to me, tbh shadowrun series did it better and it's more inmersive to me without much bs arround it, it really does more as an RPG imho @@StartHereNow
We have to rely on our Selves. Not because others can't be trusted, because I believe they can; but because eventually there will be a question no one knows the answer to. We have to rely on the strength of our own answer, and our own beliefs. Thank you Max!!!
Don't forget that you can consider difficult problems together with other people you trust. At the end of the day, with enough articulation to describe and identify complicated circumstances, teamwork of comprehension elevates your reach to a larger stage of _grasp._
I remember the blue face experience not from buying it the first time, but from being able to re-buy it later. I bought it after reading a review on a gaming magazine, fell in love with it and playet it for ages. At one point I didn't even bother to take the CD out of the computer's player. All this abuse meant that one sad day I found out I could not reinstall it on my new computer because the disk was too scratched. Fast forward a handful of years, I went to a shop where you could turn in used games to sell some old stuff I didn't care about anymore, and in one corner I saw a rather battered cardboard box with the blue face and orange background. Bought it instantly.
I bought this game for my smartphone in 2020. And even after 20 passed years it gave me the same great impression. It's not a game as just something for entertainment, but a story. A really deep one. This game has become classic already. Not by its age but by its «timeproof» like Iliad or Don Quixote. Quite a rare achievement actually.
@@faisalhusein227 yep. I play on smartphone if I play. The same for watching films etc. Smartphone is always with you and doesn't take too much space. I use laptop only for work. I have no reasons in buying special tools for gaming like consoles, for example. I spend on games maybe 30-40 mins per day.
Thank you for covering this masterpiece! As a writer and DM, this game continues to inspire me to this day. I'm sure many others have already recommended it, but Disco Elysium may be worth a look, as a spiritual successor of Planescape Torment. While the setting may be very different, and it explores a variety of other elements, the quality of writing is at the same level, and some of the central elements remain the same - the protagonist is also an amnesiac bargaining with his identity, trying to reconcile it with different beliefs or ideologies.
Planescape Torment is not a game. It's an unforgettable experience. The story, the soundtrack, the deep emotions. It was one of the few games I was struck with emptiness, when I finished it. I wanted to know the ending, but I had to finish that amazing journey I was experiencing. So bittersweet.
Play the diptych known as Ultima VII - The Black Gate/Serpent Isle. That's what you're looking for, obviously. Trust me on this, no need to thank me later, might as well wanna choose to do it now. As for the soundtrack, Ultima itself has you covered with the most famousACTUAL-RPG soundtrack ever known to man, even before spinal fantasy 7 boss music pushed at 11. It's called "Stones" ;)
@@messire9837 Thanks, i found the "Ultima 7 The Complete Edition" on GOG. Gonna start it when i finish Disco Elysium - The Final Cut. But i couldn´t wait to hear the "Stones" music and heard it on youtube under the title "Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2 Complete Roland MT-32 Soundtrack". Great tunes!
I just love games that give the players such meaning towards life,and the choices that we make in our daily lives. The writers spend so much time giving us philosophical ideas and deep lore to the game’s world we interact with.
I am so happy that you have made this analysis. This game really influenced my personal growth. I played it when I was around 18. Before it I had played Baldur's Gate and the differences had me baffled. From the initial moment I was hooked to the story of the nameless one and when I learnt some of his previous versions' deeds I was faced with the same questions you have asked here and I think I have developed some answers. I think I have grown wiser and now found a good balance between an open mind and trust in my own beliefs, and this game, along with the Dune novels, were part of this development. This is a profound game. You are profound as well.
I agree. I don't think it influenced my personal growth too much except fill me with a sense of wonder and inspire me a bunch. It had one negative effect too, I have a much higher standard now and "story-rich" games has to compete with PS:T and they tend too lose big time. How does Dune rank in comparison to PS:T? I dont read much fiction but if it reaches the heights of PS:T then maybe I'll have to check em out.
@@taz0k2 The Dune novel series is... It's a whole saga so it's not easy to wholly consume, but the first book by Frank Herbert is the seed of it and is an excellent standalone introduction. On the whole the saga is different from many other fantasy or sci-fi settings but it's really hard to convey its true depth here in a yt comment. It handles the complex relationships between structs like science, religion, politics... And there are many power groups that cooperate or conspire against one another, like a spacing guild who has monopoly over ftl space travel, or bene geserrit who seem to be excellent advisors but also secretly develop their own plans using their witch-like powers, and there are many houses, small and big, struggling to increase their profits under a feudal system, and everything is dependent on a rare substance that can only be harvested from a single planet in the universe: Dune. There are many undertones that come together to create a great orchestration: there is a feud between two houses that are bent to destroy each other, there is the jealosy of an emperor, there is the tense relationship between a mother and her special son, there is a tribe of people who want to turn a desert planet into a lush forest, there are zealots who blindly believe and there are people who defy all religion and all of them are mixed together so very, very well and in a humane way. You should definately read it.
I played pong when I was young. I played on many computer, consoles and in the arcades. I have 13k game on steam . But Planescape Torment is one of the top 5 game. The nameless story is fabulous. His companions are incredible. The world is so strange.
Another philosophical, and, in my opinion, very profound game I think you'll really like is Disco Elysium. Pretty similar to this game as far as gameplay goes, but still amazing. Hope you try it if you haven't already.
@@kormannn1 And even then the writers try to push the player along their own ideology, and make the protagonist out to be a fool if you take some of the other paths.
Planescape:Torment is my favorite game!! I want to share some great memories. Anyone remember the "Fall of Shraktlor" story in the game? Githyanki attacking the Githzerai city of Shraktlor. Dakkon loses his faith at that fateful moment. The loss of faith spreads from him to his fellow soldiers. Terror as they cease to *know* and Shraktlor starts sinking into the "chaos soup" (existing of unformed materia such as fire, earth, air, water, lightning, lava etc.) and the Githyanki gains the upper hand. Dakkon sees Shraktlor fall, he knows it was his fault, he starts"drowning" in the chaos of Limbo, he will die as a pathetic weakling, but as he dies... the Nameless One saves him (many years before the game even begins). In my opinion it's the most cinematic moment in the game! All text-only of course but man the images it produces in my mind! Also do you remember getting into the Fortress of Regrets and then suddenly the very epic (battle) music plays? Really resonated with me. Very fitting epic end-game music. Or do you remember getting to the roof of the fortress and hearing the slow version of the theme music play? That's probably my favorite point in the game standing there on the top of the fortress knowing that the long journey is coming to an end. What are your favorite moments?
And your greatest disappointments? I could only think of the in-game appearance of the Pillar of Skulls. From descriptions of it I imagined a tower with billions of skulls rivaling the size of the Spire itself, but the in-game graphics is like 30 skulls or something like that.
I think my favorite part of this game is how much can be accomplished without combat. You can even beat the game with the right dialogue choices and never actually fight the TO. In fact, I have *never* beaten this game by fighting him.
Pathologic and Pathologic 2. Ff there are games that reach or even exceed the level of philosophy of Planescape Torment, these games are Pathologic and Pathologic 2. Even with several giant video essays done by so many people on youtube, I still don't think anyone has got there, at the depth level that these games achieve. Pathologic is the piece of media that stuck with me the most, and I'm actively studying and witting about these games continuously, and even now, after some academic papers about the game I've already written for my college, I still don't think I got there.
Mask of the betrayer and torment changed my outlook on life greatly in my early 20s. I wonder if my answers would change if i go back. But ultimately i still think "strong will" is the thing that makes humans great(is it why we call god the great will?).
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The only game where you can literally argue someone out of existence.
That was a great moment!
kotor 2 also has a similar event
Not just someone. In fact the game has third option how to deal with Transcendent One (besides defeating him or bonding with him again).
Lies. There is another; SOMA.
No shit. When i did complete it, i was left thinking for 30 mins "Im real? Or im just a copy of someone who died a lot of decades ago?"
@@hiredmurderer6228 What's SOMA?
One of the few games that actually made me stop and think about life. I love the themes, the lore, the music, the characters, the spells and the story.
That music is just so iconic, nothing else like it that I know of.. listened to it many times on the CD.
I'm just confused why this video isn't about NieR:Automata.
Then again, not everyone plays every game you play. So if anyone hasn't played automata, can't recommend it enough. Especially if you like philosophy or depressing games.
try disco elysium
@@rickyray2794 Disco Elysium is definetly much appreciated for British Sea Power music, among hundreds of other reasons why that game is so awesome! (Still want to finish it).
@@trevorveillette8415 Ah yes Nier..The atheist philosophy simulator.
You know a game is legendary when spoiler warnings are given 24 years after its release
Spoiler warnings should be mandatory for everything
💯
@@simonefiumicini 100% so many pieces of media out there or course some people miss some, not to mention great pieces from early in history that no matter how old shouldn't be spoiled so fresh audiences can have the real experience.
Legendary according to whom? The 300,000 out of billions that actually paid for this excrement?
Well, keeping in mind that this game didn't sell enough and is catching popularity now, then spoiler warning is mandatory
I only saw the cover and like Max, I don't like top view games like this one, but now that I know what it goes about, I will buy it and give it a try
You've made me want to buy and play a 24-years old game which I've never heard of, from a genre I never played and that bears almost no mechanics of the kind of games I like. Thank you, I'm adding Planescape: Torment to my wishlist immediately
You should really play it and do so as a mage - adding only to INT, WIS and CHA. You will recover an amazing story - it is one experience of a kind.
@@TheHarperad thank you for the tip!
SAME. at first I mentioned to my seasoned gamer bf “I hate the looks of these types of games” and yet in the end I am dying to play this game.
And? What did you think of it?
@@Zanzibawrr haven't played it yet! I got a huge backlog and not that much free time. I'm currently going back and forth between classic and recent games. Just beat the first Super Mario Bros. lol
I think I got Planescape through Prime gaming, but I want to be in the right mood and moment to check it out.
The potential of games for communicating philosophy are enormously powerful and I am truly shocked of how unaware the academic community is of this phenomenon :D
the most recent example of this phenomena that I know of is the Nier game series. Specially NieR Automata is filled with philosophical riddles and talk
@@StarStewwhen a game about Androids in mini skirts starts quoting Nietzsche, you know you're in for a ride
Games as a teaching tool have incredible potential. Sadly education is not about... education any more
My job as an academic is not primarily to communicate philosophy or scientific achievements/knowledge to the public, it's a task we should do but believe me, there's no money in it. A select few can make a career of it but mostly outside academia. My primary job is to create new knowledge and publish it so it gets spread inside academia. And quantity is prioritized before quality, always. That's just how the system is rigged.
@@StarStew Bioshock is another good one. Having a game use the fact that it's a linear game to make a comment about lack of free will was pretty much a genius stroke.
When you enter a room in Planescape with like 5 ppl in it:
"Well, guess it's time for 2hrs of dialogue reading" *snaps fingers*
updated my journal.
updated my journal.
updated my journal.
updated my journal.
*walks 5 feet*
updated my journal.
I don’t even know what snapping my hands would be like but I agree
@@god4421 sorry, fingers*
Ო99999
I actually just started replaying this game recently,when it came out originally I thought I was the only person that knew about it lol
Planescape torment and Disco Elysium are on a league of their own when it comes to video game writing.
Mask of Betrayer 2007 is more better than Disco Elysium.
I really enjoy my time in Disco Elysium but I feel like I want to wait for a second playthrough so I can enjoy a totally different playthrough while not remembering everything
How do you pronounce your nickname? Is it "nu nim" or "nu neyem" ? Or maybe it is "nev nim" or "nev neyem" ?
@@dreamermagister8561 it's "no name" but written in Arabic alphabet.
Remember at the Keighley Awards when the makers of Disco Elysium gave thanks to Engels and the bum who mooched off of Engels, Marx? That was pretty funny.
I wish more games were set in this dnd setting, it’s genuinely different and has a lot of possibilities.
Try pillars of eternity, I am currently playing it and it feels like playing dnd
@@danielduduleanu7517 thanks I’ll give it a try
@@danielduduleanu7517 sacred gold is also a good one with Diablo-esque qualities
@@danielduduleanu7517 It's not exactly the same setting though, PoE's world building felt overall more heroic as well as optimistic in nature
@@danielduduleanu7517
Not quite enough dark fantasy
Planescape:Torment helped me get through roughest times. What a great game. Chris Avelone is genius
I didn't like a single game he wrote past PS:T. Though, I still have yet to fill some gaps, like Tyranny.
@@ChadVulpestyranny is gas
@@shirishsarkar as in, bad? Like, KotOR2 kind of Kreia-pretentious, or something else?
@@ChadVulpes no as in good, very good. Very underrated.
Planescape Torment is by far my favourite game of all time. I'm surprised that Baldur's Gate series made such a big success as well as OG Fallout series while Torment was and still is kinda niche. I guess this game is a masterpiece, a form of art, that not everyone can relate to or understand hence the modest popularity.
kekw
@@armando2814 Why
I think Fallout(the first one) comes close at times when it comes to exploring a central theme and being mature about it, though P:T is leagues above every other RPG in that regard.
Bad marketing.
Baldur's Gate has more mass appeal. It's just a typical fantasy story about beating the bad guy and winning the game. Most people, if they tried to play Torment, they'd completely fail to understand it on anything more than a purely superficial level and not have enough curiosity to want to understand it better than that. They'd fuckin scratch their noggins and go "Uh, okay, wtf???" and then never play it or think bout it ever again.
This, Baldurs Gate and the Fallout 1&2 were the games that turned video games into live worlds for me, they made me fall in love with them, the form of art that can include all arts.
I would recommend Disco Elysium and Tyranny for a more recent and amazing ride into the genius of their creators.
Disco Elysium is like a poetic modern political take on a handful of factions of Torment and it's still my favorite game of the last decade easily. If only they didn't fuck up internally they'd be the ones to finally make sth of the same philosophical scale of P:T...
So, Black Isles games.
I played planescape instead of baldurs gate because I thought the combat would be easier to understand and I wanted the story, right on both fronts
Ever played arcanum, it's by some of the same people, it's on my list
I'll def try disco elysium thanks
Exactly how i felt when i was 11 and just finished Planescape: Torment. I always LIKED videogames even beforehand, but this game made me LOVE them.
A gem of a golden age. You reviewing this is a perfect fit. Cheers, Max.
When I took up DMing, The plane chart in the back of the 5E DMG captivated me. I sought out the original Planescape materials from D&D 2E. It was one of the most enriching journeys I ever took, and immensely broadened my ideas of what game design could engage with.
Right? Factol's Manifesto is my all-time favorite RPG book.
Fuck Wizards of the Coast though.
@@theonlybilge Now more than ever, yes
@@taz0k2 It's up there for me. Dragon Kings for Dark Sun was another highlight; both gave me that "AHA, so THAT'S what's going on" feeling, and implicitly taught a reader how to deliver the same revelatory feeling
Going through the Planescape campaign right now; our DM is having a blast. Such a fun adventure.
"What can change the nature of a man?"
Is still one of the deepest quotes in videogame history in my book.
And the correct answer will always be whatever you genuinely believe.
Regret..
@@broseidon2519 The reak truth trancenders labguage and can't be answered in words, but must be felt
ye, jew not veri deep
Greedy, Selfish, Evil. I find answer long ago...
I saw this video and directly went to play the game. It was one of the best experiences I have had playing a video game in a while. The content in this game is out of the charts and the stories and their impact on the character are amazing. I love the way every companion hides some part of the world from you and revealing it not only makes you closer to them but stronger as well. I literally can't think of a complaint with this game and I believe the question posed is one that is truly justified in the end. Loved to meet the side characters who had such great characterizations as well. It surely lives up to the title of the most philosophical game of all time. I would love it if you would cover more topics from the game like the teachings of Zerthimon. Also, ranking the factions would be an amazing video.
I want to play this but only have a shitty laptop? would it run?
@@leshminka 24 year old game of course it would run
@@leshminkait will run on any pc made after 1998
Truth is, even if you know what’s going to happen, going through how you got to whatever point the game brings you to the end, the how of it is probably more. It’s not a game for everyone for sure. Way ahead of its time.
I have ADHD and its really hard to be engaged in a single video game for long (even if I'm a vivid gamer...). Even with its archaic controls and gameplay directions Planescape: Torment grabbed me with such strength that I played all the way to the very end. From my thousands of games played to this day, Planescape: Torment is without a doubt one of the most special and will always have a place on my hearth. It's not a game, is a life experience.
I misread your first sentence and kept wondering why owning the venerable Advanced Dungeons&Dragons (AD&D) ruleset kept you from being engaged in video games. I guess contemplating the Planescape setting forced me into a mindset :P
no you dont. you have dicipline problem. the fact you can finish a game that you care aboiut enough, shows you dont have adhd. this terrm is thrown around too much, and is used as excuses by the current generation, so they dont have to beheld accountable for anything. Hey, I adhd, its not my fault....etc....turn off your pc and video games for a month, exercise daily, and dont eat sugar. it will transform your life. literally. i gaurantee you, your adhd stmptoms will dissapear.
Ditto
That and Fallout 2
Same here and i played through it twice one after the other(if you know, you know). ADHD could not defeat this games majesty.
My only regret about this game is that I got it when I was 11.
I'm not from English speaking country (and my parents didn't even learned English, so title wasn't help either) and had fully localized version (with different box art, I think), so I wan't aware it was waaaaay above my age, both thematically and mechanically (got stuck at Mortruary). But hey, it had 10/10 brand of approval from biggest gaming mags in my country (and that included TREMENDOUS translation by CD Project).
Picked it years later and had blast.
I experienced the same thing playing Metal Gear as a kid. Didn't know english, just pew pew everything lol. But tbf I started learning english on my own playing Final Fantasy IX. It had so much dialogue I didn't want to miss the story so I played with a dictionary.
@@RafitoOoO Similar story here, my father didn't want me to waste time on video games, so even though translations were available, I had to install everything in English and play with a dictionary next to the keyboard. And it worked, I'm a professional translator now.
I had similar experiance, i played it when i was a kid, got stucked ať first location, and picked it up later.
Freelance?
And CD Project localization was way better than original dialogues, especially Ravel.... Good old times, since CDP no longer do such grandiose localization's.
There is a sadness in those kind of games, particularly with Planescape: we will probably die without seing a game that nearly scratches that depth.
I implore you to play more games lol. Give Kentucky Route Zero a go.
Disco Elysium is its spiritual successor, you're welcome!
Have you tried rocket league 2v2 tho?
You ever try ketamine nigga
Just read a book, its barely a game and not really that great from a literary point of view
The game's power comes from tabletop version. Planescape is one of the best written campaign settings. I was able to put my players into a situation that they argued "how is it possible to change human nature". This was the most satisfying moment of my life. Nice video, keep up the good work!
This game is one that has (and forever will) stuck with me, I honestly wish I could forget the entire game and play it again. Just so I could play it all over again.
The Bleak Cabal is probably my favorite faction, tho they don't really show up in Torment much. I'd consider myself an optimistic one tho. The main reason WHY I like them, is cuz of the way they care for others, no matter how pointless or hopeless it may seem, they try to make shit better.
Ah yes Anti-Nihilism. The universe is meaningless and random. So why dont we try to make the universe better ?
I'd love to see more videos analysing the unique lore and setting of Planescape. In particular, I'd really like to see videos from you about the teachings of Zerthimon and about Dak'kon, who is literally a defining character in D&D history and yet very few people remember him! See, in the tabletop, originally, the githzerai where characterized as a Chaotic Neutral race of anarchists, to the point that one of their racial mechanics was a prohibition against playing them with a Lawful alignment. They were also defined largely as mirror-images of their rivals, the githyanki, with the most important character in their lore being Zaerith Menyar-Ag-Gith, a wizard-king who was basically a gender-flip of the githyanki's lich-queen Vlaakith - Zerthimon was a minor "mythical" character largely revered by a small pseudo-priesthood of warrior-wizards called "zerths". Dak'kon's Lawful alignment was supposed to mark him as a contradictory, self-tormented character, an oddity on par with Fall-From-Grace the celibate succubus. But Dak'kon's portrayal, and the Teachings of Zerthimon invented for this game, redefined the githzerai, resulting in their portrayal from 3rd edition onwards as Lawful Neutral philosophers and spiritualists, literally remolding them in Dak'kon's image.
Endure. And in enduring, grow strong.
That sounds cool. Odd that they’d Flanderize an entire race of humanoids because of one character, though.
I only know about one of theany DnD universes from 1d4chan, and in that universe the planes of reality are arranged like alignment chart.
E: turns out that universe is the planescape universe.
@@WisdomThumbs they didn't flanderize they made an already flanderized race into two opposing philosophies the followers of Zerth and the followers of Gith.
@@purpleguy319 Ah, so the Queen character didn’t exist until then? Thank you for clarifying.
One thing I've always loved about the original Nameless One's riddle is that Ravel's curse is literally the answer to it. Having someone routinely lose their memories and start a new life, and seeing what happens, is the only way to answer that question. She can't just refuse his request without also never seeing the answer to her question. Perfect "back a genie into a corner" wish.
Thats called an aberrant iteration i believe
Technically, Regret?
I think the reason why both Ravel and the Trascendant One can't answer the riddle is because they are both immortal. They see mortals as transient beings, forever doing the same things and making the same mistakes, they have a gimpse of every possible answer but they CAN'T belive in any of those answers, because belief in them comes from the innevitabilty of death. Belief, the search of truth, comes from a mortal need to give meaning to life.
The Trascendant One has the knowledge of every Nameless one, but he doesn't have their truth. They saw how each one of the Nameless Ones answered the question in their life, to the Transcendant One every one of those truth was on the same level and all of them were wrong, that's why they think NOTHING can change the nature of a man.
If I remember right, Ravel also was stuck in a false dilemma, she wanted someone to love her, but she didn't understood love itself.
@@estebanrodriguez5409 excellent answer, but also the riddle answer is pretty easy if you think about it. It is either nothing or age, you require time to experience any of the others.
@@robbie5181 both nothing and age are wrong.
There are many people that never change in the lives AND live long lives... so it's false that age changes the nature of people.
And "nothing" is equally false, just find ANY person whose nature has changed.
The point of the riddle, is that ANY one thing is going to be false for everybody, so it has to be the underlying thing among all the correct answers.
This game is a masterpiece. I'm going to go see if they sell it on steam. My uncle had it when I was a kid and I had no idea how deep it was.
They do sell it on steam
They also sell it on GOG
Please please please make series of this game. It’s the first time I even hear about it and I am enchanted by the lore and plot. Always been a fan of adding heavy philosophical content to any form of media and this is a hidden gem we (I) need to know more of! You’ve been Lliked, subscribed, and belled by this guy
Play it. There's no better way to explore it than to actually play it itself.
The Bleak Cabal ("the multiverse is meaningless, so we may as well take care of one another") who run the madhouse and soup kitchen sort of charity work are my favorite faction. But I've only played the tabletop RPG, haven't gotten around to this game yet.
The Bleakers aren't really in Planescape: Torment, unfortunately.
@@matthewgagnon9426 ah bummer, I only played the tabletop version.
I was a huge D&D and Baldur's Gate fan when this came out and can say that I was one of the 37k who first bought it as soon as it hit the shelves. I was not disappointed it was one of the most surreal and immersive experiences I've ever had with a game. I've played through it dozens of times since.
Nwn, kotor, legacy of kain, arcantum, divinity.
Based
after playing BG1 at a friends house my dad finally got a PC that could run these games. I rushed to the store to buy BG1, but it was no longer sold. The store worker told me that this game was made by the same company so I bought this instead (I was kinda hesitant because the box art with the blue rastafari didn't look that appealing) but I was hooked when I played the game!
Took me YEARS to meet someone (a co-worker) that also played the game, and we could discuss for hours about the things in this game
I played this when it originally came out and loved it! The lore, weird setting and strange characters...both in your party and the inhabitants of the world. And, yes....such a deep game in the philosophical sense. Luckily, I have a copy and after I watch this....I may embark on learning the nature of my soul....yet, again.
Endure. In enduring grow strong~
Man that's exactly how i feel and how i view it each time i go back to it, like coming back home, barricaded from the social construct of real life, relationships, struggle, and rejoining my soul, knowing myself deeply and who i am, what i value, and what is true.
I had to grab remaster.
@@Cant-Think-Of-Anythink-Better Hell yeah. I'd booted up the original awhile back and it's just sooo janky on modern systems. The Enhanced Edition just flows so much better. And don't forget to invest in Wisdom! And Fell's tattoo parlor has new tats to grab the further ya progress in the story based on your decisions, so definitely check back there after ya meet 'em. xP
Torment came from an era of gaming that was surreal. You had playable game versions of mind horror books such as " I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" and mystery titles like Gabriel. RPG and story based narratives didn't peak before the 2000s, but a lot of them still to this day would push the envelope if they had a wider audience.
I loved this game as a kid and I love it now as an adult. I remember it felt thoughtful and fantastically unique in its storytelling already when I played it as a teenager, and a lot of the more philosophical concepts and themes were not lost on me, but it's definitely very different to play it today.
I only recently played Disco Elysium and holy heck that game is good. It feels like a more refined - and obviously more modern - take on a game in the style of Torment. I really liked Mask of the Betrayer, and I quite enjoyed Tides of Numenara as well, but neither game managed to hit that high note of evocative and thoughtful storytelling that Planescape Torment had. Disco Elysium, however, even surpasses it, in many ways.
For those that do not want to play the game but would rather read an unofficial novelization of the book, check wikipedia's entry for Planetscape: Torment and look in the "Adaptations" section. There is a footnote link to the novel there.
The Pepsi Man gag got me. 😂😂😂 I got Torment for my birthday in 2000. I played it and only it for 2 solid years. I never finished it cause I hit a wall. I never got around to playing it again but I still think about it a lot. I was 14 and it was an amazing game and I was chaotic good. I saved people and helped out whoever I could but I stole EVERYTHING!!! 😝 I still do this in my good guy playthroughs but steal everything I want.
Are you like that in real life
@@stevenskates8077 Not going to lie when I was a kid I had sticky fingers. I stole random crap and nothing of real value. I was 16 when I finally got caught. Learned my lesson, joined the army and became a better person. Life imitates art. 😁
@@stevenskates8077 Also a side note we share the same first name. 😁
Happens to lot of us. Whenever I decide to play good on any game I have this urge to steal and kill my neighbors :(
Amazing video Max as always.
I was introduced to Torment by an older gamer when I suggest to him to play Disco Elysium. So we made a deal that I would play Torment and he would play Disco Elysium. After we met, we talked for hours and after a few month I found out that Torment was one of the major infuilnces on Disco Elysium as well. So give Disco Elysium a try Max, I'm 100% sure you won't regret it.
A Disco Elysium video will happen, no doubt... sooner rather than later.
@@maxderrat that's good to hear 😀
You are the only content creator that I could not binge. And that is the point. This means I need time to process every video to grasp the complexity of the ideas you put forth in it. Brilliant content, sir!
This man truly is one of the most cultured people on RUclips he know the true value of one of the best games ever made one no human can truly understand but still value
PEPISI MAN
Nah, he's rubbish, sorry. Doen't even master his subject, doesn't know what Philosophy is, and mentions philosophy, without even giving justice to the Ultima series, which is pretty much a philosophy simulator video game, just like back then Desert Strike was a "war in Irak accept simulator", video game.
@@messire9837 🤓🤓
@@purnya2 I think he just needs a Pepsi.
Lol nah, Noah Caldwell Gervais reviewed this years ago.
I saw the title, I saw the thumb nail, I clicked the video and without knowing what it was, i said to myself "What can change that nature of --" and then I got cut off. Perfect. Just perfect.
I played this as a 14 year old in 1999. Its is truly one of the few games that has stood qith me since then. Especially reading the unbroken circle of zerthimon, it was enlighten, eye opening, even for an inquisitive 14 year old boy. I replayed it a few years ago as an adult and again, it was the same. A true masterpiece that I advise anyone to play.
Please, play this game.
They made an enhanced edition too, so it is more accessible than it was before.
Back when I still had enough patience to enjoy games that you have to read rather than play this was my favourite by far. Thinking of the ending today still makes me emotional.
This is my first video I've ever watched of yours and I got literal chills at the dialogue near the end of the video. Masterful!
Great analysis! Regarding my faction of choice, I went with the Godsmen in my last playthrough since they seemed the closest analog to the Stoics (whose teachings made an impression on me three years earlier). They treat reality as a classroom in which one learns the lessons life throws at them and does their best doing so in order to self-actualize.
My question is what have you lost in life?
I would actually love to see more of this game and a dive into the philosophies explored here. The other factions and zones all sound like they have depth and purpose.
A truly timeless masterpiece, just like its protagonist. :)
Ramdomly clicked looking for great RPG stories and cant believe its Planescape:Torment!
Still got my 4cd version and poster because it's still the best RPG I've ever played.
Props for covering such an awesome rich world. We need more games like this!
This game is one of the best ever made, and probably the one which is the best in terms of writing.
This, Disco Elysium and the Legacy of Kain series forsure
@@maxwellsamuel3255 Agree! Tbh, when I played Disco Elysium for the first time I was shocked that we finally got a game which can compete with those two classics.
Dude, thank you so much for making a video about this game, I really wanted this game to get more recognition, the moment I heard a video titled: The greatest moment in an RPG, I knew I needed to play this game, and when I finished this game , it was the best experience i ever had in a game, its lore and narrative was incredible for me on this game, and I really wanted to let more people know about this game, good job talking about this game.
Glad you finally played this! One interesting tidbit, you're wrong about Fall-From-Grace, although yours is a good surface read. Like every companion she carries a much heavier burden (or "Torment") that you can slowly uncover through quest and dialogue lines over the course of the game. She was formed from Chaotic Evil, but at an early age her mother sold her into slavery for the Baatezu (Lawful Evil), and after years of torture under her masters... She broke. I wouldn't call that enlightened, she's gained no deeper knowledge from her years of abuse, instead she's rebelling against the multiverse itself, a walking beacon of defiance.
Finally! I heard about this game but couldn’t remember the name! But I would never forget that cover!
Oh man, here we go again. Why I find this video? The memories. This game was/is phenomenal, almost godlike in its storytelling. I finished it many times always the same way, I just cannot help myself and every time it crush me with this strong feeling I could not specify. Maybe it is time to play it again...same way as always :)
I like you take on this old classic. I would like to see you take on one of the ice picked lodge games: Pathologic, the Void or Pathologic 2. These games are quite hard to play because how punishing they are but this "suffering" is integral to the game.
Already did one my man. :) ruclips.net/video/Uk3Dm3OTNY4/видео.html
Yes please do a video on the many factions in this game. Very interesting stuff. I love to listen to stuff like this. Like listening to a podcast.
The factions remind me of how their are 6 types of stories, all with their various positions of rise and fall of the character, one perspective of evil (rise to fall) may be relatable more than one perspective of good (fall to rise) even a neutral sense of perspective (rise to fall and on the rise again, reflecting on the dichotomy of the extremes experienced) etc.. all of these would hold no value without death, the end to the story, your story, your life. Each rise and fall brings into perspective the consequence of living and knowing death with the benefit of recognizing your past choices and weather or not you want to accept your final destination (the raw belief idea) as the essential perfect goal for the human length of time it takes to die, for your children to prosper forth and spread.
When I saw the title I immediately knew it was Planescape Torment. Got the game when I was 11 or 12yo. Payled it and returned to it when I was 16yo. I think I was in my mid 20s when I played it the last time but now I’m in my mid 30s and I want to give it a shot. Each time I played I was indeed different. My character was different, my build was different. The decisions I made where different and the outcomes of these decisions were different, so the game was different too. This game has more layers then one might think. I honestly believe this masterpiece got as close to a playable novel as a crpg could ever get. And a good written novel too. It brought feelings and thoughts no other game has ever had before and after. There are so many beautiful and meaningful endings to it.
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My god this was such a fantastic game when I played it long ago. I still remember it well. 20+ years is quite a testament to a games writing.
Hell yeah! Bet that first run was a good one. I've played it maybe three times over and still wanna go back n see what I've missed or misunderstood. The fact that Wisdom as an attribute can do sooo much for you in this game is just so fitting. And the tattoo system.. so good.
Pretty sure it has the most lines of dialogue in all of gaming, but I cld be wrong.
I would put the Forgotten City up there with Disco Elysium as games that also place emphasis on philosophy.
Forgotten city blew my mind. I think I broke for a few minutes after playing
Is that the Roman one with the time portal?
@@StartHereNow yup
I wonder if people that put Disco Elysium in the same place (or higher) as Torment really know about philosophy or they're just enchanted by a game that is all about their political side.
Elysium is a joke of a philosophical game, focusing on m*Rx!§t bs and treating the rest of the ideologies it includes in a horrible and dishonest way
Strange, you claim this is the most philosophical game yet I noticed this isn’t Simpsons Road Rage for the play station 2
Gigachad
Would love more exploration of the themes and facets of this game. Amongst anything, a video about each faction would be majorly interesting. I have read all the faction bios so thank you for providing that link 🙏
Yes, more Planescape. I was awaiting for You to finally reach this game on your search for profound moments and ideas in games. I would say, that the teachings of Zerthimon and the unbroken circle and the actual story behind it create one of the most interesting and life-changing ideas I have ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Putting it into 'practice' and reviewing my personal philosophy while using those 'teachings' allowed me to take the reins of my life back from depression, thus I may be a hit biased.
I'm going to buy this game and play it right now, it's so cool! I feel close to both the Believers of Source and the Trancendent Order, they seems to be similar to the Teosofic ideas and the teaching of Gurdjieff. Love it!
Been following this channel for a while. Props for actually getting through the entire game. The lore is definitely daunting. I'd love to see a video on dak'kon and the teachings of zerthimon
I love the original D&D Planescape with all the planes of existence, unique creatures from the perfectly lawful mechanus with modrons to the lawful evil devils of the nine hells to the chaos of limbo and even the far realm and the celestial archons of the seven heavens of celestia. It’s what I love most a huge universe (kinda a multiverse) with tons of lore that can give you existential crisises with the amount of philosophy in it.
After not mentioning it in top tens, this is the only you could do, it really deserves its own big very high-quality video.
Finally, the Planetscape Tournament video.
Great video Max. To answer the question on which faction I liked the sound of most is the Free League. I think it's one that allows the most freedoms because it isn't focused on just a single truth and incorporates being allowed to see all viewpoints to allow yourself to adopt your own truth.
Possibly one of the best adventure games I ever played (even though it plays as an RPG) alongside Loom.
“A lobotomy” would also be a good answer to the question of what can change the nature of a man.
It's always December of 1999 and Mark Morgan makes the best Gaming OSTS!
Funny, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic posited this very question of identity and if we are always the same person we used to be. Until now, I thought that was the first game that raised the question, thanks for setting me straight. Love you videos, keep up the good work.
kotor has the same writer... ;)
@@pontsenki5301it doesn’t. Kotor 1 which has that reconciliation with the past ending was written by the guy that did ME1 and ME2.
Planescape is like Chris Avallones first ever project lead and it was his 2nd year in the games industry. Everybody can pretty much recognize Avallones writing by now since he’s done Kotor2, NV, Neverwinter, FO2, Tyranny, Kingmaker etc. But no he was far removed from Kotor 1 and didn’t even want to touch Kotor 2 initially when Lucasarts and Bioware offered it to Obsidian since he hates star wars. I mean just the massive vibe shift and changes from kotor 1 - 2 is enough to tell that he desperately wanted to shake it up.
@@KiazaKadaj ahh, i see, thanks for the the clarfication
That opening footage of store shelves in the late 90s/early 00s really got me feeling some type of way. Where'd you get the footage? I'll sit down and watch a camera roll over PC game shelves in 2001 for longer than I'd like to admit.
Oh yeah, Planescape. I've watched a dozen videos on it and I LOVE Disco Elysium, but I think you're the guy who finally got me to install.
I played Fallout 2 before this and as soon as I heard Ravel speak I was like "that's the elder from Fallout 2!"
no one is brave enough to make stuff like this anymore. RIP Black Isle.
Black Isle is king of the dwarves, that's true. As it pretty much surfed on Origin System's success back then, even before your grandparents were born, it seems.
"thanks for that Ultima8/Crusader iso3D engine tech, Origin. Now let's produce an heir to ORIGIN's ultima series and use ORIGIN tech to do it. Yes!
>> Yall celebrating the padawan here. Heed the moongate, not the stinky finger pointing at it.
Didn't Black Isle use Bioware's Baldur's Gate engine instead of Origin's Ultima 8 engine?
Soma, The forgotten city, SIGNALIS, and Disco Elysium are some examples of modern games with incredible stories
people tried with Tides of Numenera too - unfortunately then, the problem wasn't braver afaik, it was actually delivering the goods.
Avallone literally did Tyranny and helped the two Pathfinder games recently and is still working in the industry.
in fact a lot of those Interplay to Black Isle to Obsidian guys are still around doing things. whether they are good or not is up to you but Avallone practically solod this games story while working on 3 other things in his 2nd year of working in the industry. in fact it was more or less a throwaway project since BG1 was being made upper management needed them to make a dnd game based off planescape in the same engine.
YES
I look for new Planescape Torment content every once in a while for years now. This game is special, one of its kind. Its the only game I can say I truly enjoyed. Sole biggest influence on my taste in media.
I hope you will feel like its worth your time to analise and make videos on it.
Thanks for reminding me why this was one of the most important games of my life.
Phenomenal game. I'm only early into the video, but I think you would enjoy Disco Elysium, which was intended as continuing the legacy of Planescape: Torment. I wish you luck in braving the pale: The concept of it was probably the most horrifying thing I've ever heard in all of fiction, and seeing what it has done to people and bonding with them really made me reconsider the very concept of "ground truth" itself in a way years of philosophy classes had not and its the first game I've played which had me and the other people I was sat playing it with on the couch all crying together for reasons none of us could explain or express.
The concept of pale was straight up genius. Mesmerizing. I thought they will use it in story's climax, but ... oh well. Maybe in next game.
This game made me fall in love with philosophy.
A video series on this would be amazing! One of my childhood favorites.
the most underrated game ever... 24 years after still gives me goose bumps
Very nice and well made video, man. I never even considered playing this game before whatching this. You did a great job in presenting the game as a great and rewarding experience. Congrats!
Max, i hope you see this comment, i love your content so much. I myself am an alchemist and your channel helps me sometimes with understanding more about the occult knowledge. I know a anime tv series of a name Mononoke(Not the Mononoke Princess movie) This in an anime you simply must see, it is all of the old japanese myths and spiritual put into a beautiful journey which is one of the most profound media i have ever seen, i would have said more but i think you should see for yourself! Thank you for being so awesome content creator!
Planescape: Torment is my all time favorite game, hands down. That being said, I honestly feel games like Tyranny, Disco Elysium, Underrail, Colony Ship come really, REALLY close.
Disco Elysium was disappointing to me. I thought it would be a lot deeper than it was, and the story was very short.
Tbh agree, maybe i was expecting too mucho bases on the perception that was groundbeealing or some shorts, ot really felt short to me, tbh shadowrun series did it better and it's more inmersive to me without much bs arround it, it really does more as an RPG imho @@StartHereNow
@@diegosotomiranda4107 Shadowrun kicks ass, what class do you prefer?
@@diegosotomiranda4107 It seems you are talking to a bot.
We have to rely on our Selves. Not because others can't be trusted, because I believe they can; but because eventually there will be a question no one knows the answer to. We have to rely on the strength of our own answer, and our own beliefs. Thank you Max!!!
Wow, thanks : ) That is a really good way of putting that feeling into words.
Don't forget that you can consider difficult problems together with other people you trust. At the end of the day, with enough articulation to describe and identify complicated circumstances, teamwork of comprehension elevates your reach to a larger stage of _grasp._
I remember the blue face experience not from buying it the first time, but from being able to re-buy it later.
I bought it after reading a review on a gaming magazine, fell in love with it and playet it for ages. At one point I didn't even bother to take the CD out of the computer's player. All this abuse meant that one sad day I found out I could not reinstall it on my new computer because the disk was too scratched. Fast forward a handful of years, I went to a shop where you could turn in used games to sell some old stuff I didn't care about anymore, and in one corner I saw a rather battered cardboard box with the blue face and orange background. Bought it instantly.
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TY for putting all of us onto this Enigma!
I bought this game for my smartphone in 2020. And even after 20 passed years it gave me the same great impression. It's not a game as just something for entertainment, but a story. A really deep one.
This game has become classic already. Not by its age but by its «timeproof» like Iliad or Don Quixote. Quite a rare achievement actually.
bro be living in 2040
U really play it on your smartphone? Or tablet ?
@@faisalhusein227 yep. I play on smartphone if I play. The same for watching films etc. Smartphone is always with you and doesn't take too much space. I use laptop only for work.
I have no reasons in buying special tools for gaming like consoles, for example. I spend on games maybe 30-40 mins per day.
@abehaibane any other suggestions for good games on smartphone? I have android idk what you have
The more I hear from this Max Derrat guy, the more I like him.
Holy hell... I haven't played this game in so many years. Glad to see someone bring this S tier game up again.
I looked for a video like this one after playing the game a few years back, but didn't find much. Thank you for making it.
Thank you for covering this masterpiece! As a writer and DM, this game continues to inspire me to this day.
I'm sure many others have already recommended it, but Disco Elysium may be worth a look, as a spiritual successor of Planescape Torment. While the setting may be very different, and it explores a variety of other elements, the quality of writing is at the same level, and some of the central elements remain the same - the protagonist is also an amnesiac bargaining with his identity, trying to reconcile it with different beliefs or ideologies.
Planescape Torment is not a game.
It's an unforgettable experience.
The story, the soundtrack, the deep emotions.
It was one of the few games I was struck with emptiness, when I finished it. I wanted to know the ending, but I had to finish that amazing journey I was experiencing. So bittersweet.
Play the diptych known as Ultima VII - The Black Gate/Serpent Isle. That's what you're looking for, obviously. Trust me on this, no need to thank me later, might as well wanna choose to do it now. As for the soundtrack, Ultima itself has you covered with the most famousACTUAL-RPG soundtrack ever known to man, even before spinal fantasy 7 boss music pushed at 11. It's called "Stones" ;)
@@messire9837 Thanks, i found the "Ultima 7 The Complete Edition" on GOG. Gonna start it when i finish Disco Elysium - The Final Cut.
But i couldn´t wait to hear the "Stones" music and heard it on youtube under the title "Ultima 7 Parts 1 & 2 Complete Roland MT-32 Soundtrack". Great tunes!
I just love games that give the players such meaning towards life,and the choices that we make in our daily lives. The writers spend so much time giving us philosophical ideas and deep lore to the game’s world we interact with.
I am so happy that you have made this analysis. This game really influenced my personal growth. I played it when I was around 18. Before it I had played Baldur's Gate and the differences had me baffled. From the initial moment I was hooked to the story of the nameless one and when I learnt some of his previous versions' deeds I was faced with the same questions you have asked here and I think I have developed some answers. I think I have grown wiser and now found a good balance between an open mind and trust in my own beliefs, and this game, along with the Dune novels, were part of this development.
This is a profound game.
You are profound as well.
I agree. I don't think it influenced my personal growth too much except fill me with a sense of wonder and inspire me a bunch. It had one negative effect too, I have a much higher standard now and "story-rich" games has to compete with PS:T and they tend too lose big time.
How does Dune rank in comparison to PS:T? I dont read much fiction but if it reaches the heights of PS:T then maybe I'll have to check em out.
@@taz0k2 The Dune novel series is... It's a whole saga so it's not easy to wholly consume, but the first book by Frank Herbert is the seed of it and is an excellent standalone introduction. On the whole the saga is different from many other fantasy or sci-fi settings but it's really hard to convey its true depth here in a yt comment. It handles the complex relationships between structs like science, religion, politics... And there are many power groups that cooperate or conspire against one another, like a spacing guild who has monopoly over ftl space travel, or bene geserrit who seem to be excellent advisors but also secretly develop their own plans using their witch-like powers, and there are many houses, small and big, struggling to increase their profits under a feudal system, and everything is dependent on a rare substance that can only be harvested from a single planet in the universe: Dune. There are many undertones that come together to create a great orchestration: there is a feud between two houses that are bent to destroy each other, there is the jealosy of an emperor, there is the tense relationship between a mother and her special son, there is a tribe of people who want to turn a desert planet into a lush forest, there are zealots who blindly believe and there are people who defy all religion and all of them are mixed together so very, very well and in a humane way.
You should definately read it.
You had my respect and attention when you mentioned System Shock 2
I played pong when I was young. I played on many computer, consoles and in the arcades. I have 13k game on steam . But Planescape Torment is one of the top 5 game. The nameless story is fabulous. His companions are incredible. The world is so strange.
Another philosophical, and, in my opinion, very profound game I think you'll really like is Disco Elysium. Pretty similar to this game as far as gameplay goes, but still amazing. Hope you try it if you haven't already.
Doesn't that game just end up being Marxist propaganda?
Disco Elysium is better.
Planescape established the roots of it.
Very rare to find such type of games that do what they do good.
There was not much philosophy aside from the thoughts of protagonist iirc.
@@kormannn1 And even then the writers try to push the player along their own ideology, and make the protagonist out to be a fool if you take some of the other paths.
Planescape:Torment is my favorite game!!
I want to share some great memories.
Anyone remember the "Fall of Shraktlor" story in the game? Githyanki attacking the Githzerai city of Shraktlor. Dakkon loses his faith at that fateful moment. The loss of faith spreads from him to his fellow soldiers. Terror as they cease to *know* and Shraktlor starts sinking into the "chaos soup" (existing of unformed materia such as fire, earth, air, water, lightning, lava etc.) and the Githyanki gains the upper hand. Dakkon sees Shraktlor fall, he knows it was his fault, he starts"drowning" in the chaos of Limbo, he will die as a pathetic weakling, but as he dies...
the Nameless One saves him (many years before the game even begins).
In my opinion it's the most cinematic moment in the game! All text-only of course but man the images it produces in my mind!
Also do you remember getting into the Fortress of Regrets and then suddenly the very epic (battle) music plays? Really resonated with me. Very fitting epic end-game music.
Or do you remember getting to the roof of the fortress and hearing the slow version of the theme music play? That's probably my favorite point in the game standing there on the top of the fortress knowing that the long journey is coming to an end.
What are your favorite moments?
And your greatest disappointments?
I could only think of the in-game appearance of the Pillar of Skulls. From descriptions of it I imagined a tower with billions of skulls rivaling the size of the Spire itself, but the in-game graphics is like 30 skulls or something like that.
I think my favorite part of this game is how much can be accomplished without combat. You can even beat the game with the right dialogue choices and never actually fight the TO. In fact, I have *never* beaten this game by fighting him.
Pathologic and Pathologic 2. Ff there are games that reach or even exceed the level of philosophy of Planescape Torment, these games are Pathologic and Pathologic 2. Even with several giant video essays done by so many people on youtube, I still don't think anyone has got there, at the depth level that these games achieve. Pathologic is the piece of media that stuck with me the most, and I'm actively studying and witting about these games continuously, and even now, after some academic papers about the game I've already written for my college, I still don't think I got there.
Very good video. Very happy to see Planescape: Torment getting more of the recognition it deserves.
I won't be answering your question, though ;)
Mask of the betrayer and torment changed my outlook on life greatly in my early 20s. I wonder if my answers would change if i go back. But ultimately i still think "strong will" is the thing that makes humans great(is it why we call god the great will?).
MotB enjoyers unite