Hopefully this closes the book on this fiasco once and for all. If you don't want to sit through with me talking for 30 minutes non stop. skip to 31:45 for a TLDR. You won't regret it. I was late to upload this, youtube isn't my 1# priority. But hopefully this will cement and show my views in a much more clear picture now. If you have any disagreements or questions. Please leave them down below. Best way to handle conflicting views is to discuss them.
Gchan you forgor to pin your comment. Also, I'm really happy about you finding a barrell of hope in all of this. I wanted to leave a comment because... Well, maybe just to speak up. I wrote on Tsunul's video as well, saying that he comes off as quite hatefull towards you, only offhandedly stating that is understandable since it was a new type of video for you, and that he generally agrees, but said again, really shortly. ("Comes off" because I know Tsunul is an adult that knows how to handle his emotions, and so does not ruin himself over taxicity or a call out. But still, I think it would be better to pair the non-harrassment message with non-hatefull speech. Which I think you handled better for Zet. Yes you called him a variety of things but also repeated over and over to either stay calm, ignore or just don't descend into hatred to respond). By his video I also thought you actively cropped the Drama Vtuber statement, but here I sincerely also understood "an" instead of "and", so I'm honestly sorry that such a small thing brought so much problems, it just sucks. As a Last thing that mentions Tsunul response, his reaction and breakdown of the "Two radicals and the neutrals" talk is the one I also told him I felt he missunderstood. Like, when he called the people in the middle "Braindead I guess" I could only think "Tsunul what the hell, are you butthurt for the call-out of how you responded to Zet and just think of all the messages in bad lights now?" In any community (usually small ones, like 30~50 peoples) I'm the one that has to say "Understand the meaning of my words. Do not hang on single words, do not stretch my logics to make them a strawman. The message is what matters, and any prejudice can only harm to that" And in that ottic, I think your starting video still does good. I arrived and thought "Oh, this is a video about personal thoughts and feelings", and did not think of it as something that should inform me of everything going on in the community, you come off as really passionate in both that one and this one, so is even clearer how it talks and remains about your feeling and thoughts, and not a documentary (Still, missearing the "an" to "and" sucks hard) Anyway, sorry for the messy message, just kinda wanted to reach out and speak. As a funny thing, that I intend as a teas: Hey, you spoke to not antagonize Blue archive fans, but in the same sentence you antagonized the Genshin community? How could you? I play genshin you know? How dare you?! (I repeat, as a teas. Limbus is my only Gacha because PM got me into it. But I'm guilty of seeing The Blue archive meme and thinking "Pfft, yeah, we don't have matching freaks" because like... There was a guy saying how one of the lo*is was his wife and did a balls check on him everyday, and just, Twitter showing the "Uuuoooooohhh, Correction!!!" and leaving an impression on me)
@@Conte_Della_Malasorte Thanks for your input. As for the genshin part. If you look at 26:19 I specified in there I said genshin route is because that is what the genshin community has been marked as now. Of course in no way does it really represent its entire playerbase. But their bad apples are incredibly loud and we could end up like them if we keep going this route.
Yeah, this whole thing highlighted the dangerous path the PM EN community was going down for a bit. This has been one of the nicest communities I've encountered (going from brainrot memes to answering questions about Limbus immediately when someone asked as a major example for me since I don't use Twitter), so to see the extremes that people went to was very shocking. Like most people, I really don't want to see this community go down in flames. The PM games (especially Limbus/Ruina) are rather important and close to my heart to me. I don't interact with the community much anymore outside of talking about things with friends on occasion (trying to curb the brainrot for personal mental health reasons), but seeing the back and forth of this whole debacle was disheartening. I do respect you for taking the time to clarify your points from the original video and showing that there's room for respectful dialogue. There's hope yet for the community to go back before we hit the point of no return.
31:46 absolutely peak moment. And for 17:49 I knew about the person disliking Zet but that wasn't important for what I was saying, the quote is: "So I’ve covered why I think G Chan’s video was actively harmful in its messaging due to a lack of research and under-explained points when it comes to a topic this nuanced. I’ve also covered why Zet is. Yeah. Now let’s talk about the Project Moon community. Do I think it gives way to quick tribalism against what people say is bad? Yep, same happened with the Vellmori situation last year. Do I think Zet is inherntely the best mouthpiece to display this problem with? No, you literally pulled up someone most people in the world would have a problem with, not the most iron cast point to make your statement. He’s literally just an idiot who swallowed too many red pills and can't think for himself. Combine that with laziness and a lack of care for the people within his community, you got your local forest halfing. I think the Dino Dave point hammers the message much better. But since the video wasn’t that in depth and specific of its messaging, you had people equate the negative opinions on Zet as the same to opinions on Dino Dave. And here’s the key difference. Dino Dave gave opinions about a video game, Zet gave hateful opinions on real groups of people. To equate the two of them is dumb." Showing that my point was removed from how the video showed Zet's character. The message about it lacking depth in its messaging is what ties into my comment of people equating Dino Dave and Zet's harassment. Because I don't believe the two can be compared unless someone specifically states the key differences in them. As Dino Dave was harassed over his opinions on a ficitional game. Zet was harassed over saying... I mean yeah. So them saying their dislike to Zet doesn't matter to the point I was making. I was just saying that I dislike people so easily drawing a line between the two cases when the orgins for them are completely different. The comparisson I said in DM's was: "To me, its like taking two scenarios. Where in one, someone punches you in the face. And in the other someone bumps into you. Then you try to say the reaction to someone punching you in the face is bad because, well what if you did it to the person who bumped into you. Category A and B are in different worlds, and to compare them, nuance is needed." So just simply, as I said, "To equate the two of them is dumb." that's really all it was for.
Hi, person who made the quote RT. Tried contacting you through G chan and tbh, I genuinely think you completely missed my message. Maybe to you it felt like downplaying Zet action despite the fact that its been stated that Zet had it coming. The bigger issue was pointing out the fact of how easy it is for the community to jump on harassing someone for whatever reason, not necessarily because of what specifically what Zet did. A good recent example is what happened to Kokoro and how the community harassed him for making a blue archive joke in a Limbus. If these sorta things comes down to the proper optics, then whats really stopping anyone from attacking people over the things they say or do online. You should know this because you own community pays attention and listens to you when it comes to the opinions of other gacha games and how that reactions came down to them saying some shitty things to other communities/people. Trying to remove the point and completely censor the main message doesn't really make your point look better, it just, to me, feels like you can't really have a discussion where you point of views can be challenged, esp from someone who isn't actively participating in the Limbus community. Im not saying these things because I'm some sort of hater or a Zet sympathizer (god no, im a woman of color for fucks sake). But I don't like content creators who like to talk about crap shit other communities have while blatantly ignoring their own because their fanbase is what pays the bills at the end of the day. EDIT: From some people outside of the PM community, i.e other gacha game communities. Theres already a bad reputation of PM/Limbus community members seeing people being extremely egotistical because their game doesn't have fanservice/male gaze and attack other communities on that notion despite the fact that the community regular sexualizes characters, especially characters such as sinclair. So as a result, you might want to keep that in mind regarding everything thats been going on. Hopefully things like these situations dont happen again because i rather not have the community degrade because of the release of a gacha game, but I wouldn't be surpised if it turned out that way.
@@Tsunul A little yeah. I dont really blame you considering its not really easy to criticize a community you're a part of. But after being in many many gacha communities and being on the internet for the better part of my years, i can't help but see alot of the bias you have towards other communities and PM. Its less of a, PM is bad specifically and more about how fandoms have become especially post covid. So its generally alot better to have a bit more control in the perception of the community without it becoming something like genshin, where clearly its not a majority of the community who acts that way, but because no one directly call out how bad it is, bad behavior continues until it gets the reputation it has. (Typing on moble makes formatting shit 🙇♂️)
@@whyr1s Well, I would recommend watching my state of the internet video. Because, in half of that video I criticize the PM community. I talk about the harassment my friends have received form it, the harassment I have received, and I talk about how everyone was at each others throats during the VM incident. Now, in that video I also say one important thing. "I don't like how people will guess so much about someone's character off of so little. Or how they will judge someone without fully knowing them." Paraphrasing but more or less thats what I was saying. And I feel as though you have just done that. From my perspective you have just assumed that I never called out the harassment from the PM community, when my most viewed video is me specifcially doing that, and calling for people to not harass others. Now you also said in your comment: "Even thought you may try to disown people with extreme thoughts like this, within your own community, you have people who would and will do this again to other people. Sure for now, we can say that Zet deserved this, but what it is to say about people like Dino Dave? Did they also deserve to get harassed because of their own personal opinion regarding Limbus Company the game?" To me this feels like your saying people in my community would also go after Dino Dave, when within that same video, I talked about the harassment he recevied and why I hate it. So that is why I do not particularily like your comment, it feels like its guessing so much of my character without time spent behind knowing my character. Then there's parts like: "You should know this because you own community pays attention and listens to you when it comes to the opinions of other gacha games and how that reactions came down to them saying some shitty things to other communities/people." And I'm curious about the meaning of this as I don't really know what you're refering to. If I were to hold a guess I'd say it's maybe within regards to BA? Though it could be the LCB writing video you're refering about? Regardless for something like BA I have said over and over that I don't like the game but if you play it you shouldn't be harassed. Found within my state of the internet video as well. "Y’know here’s the thing, I’ve talked a lot of shit about Blue Archive and in the future, imma talk even more shit. But that doesn’t come from a place of hating the people who play it, hell some of my friends grind it out on the daily. All the shit I talk isn’t meant to be taken seriously. My opinion when it comes to stuff in general is, if you’re not actively harming yourself or anyone else then I don’t got a reason to bother you or hate you. Live and let live, if someone wants to play a video game then I got infinitely better shit to do with my time then to hate on them. Now imma still make sobbing emoji jokes about the game, don’t get it twisted. Hell I already got some written for a future video, but sincerely. Not everything you see on the internet is someone being 1000% serious about their views on a specific topic. Holy shit jokes exist, but I’ll cover this point in much more detail later. " And if that statement comes from the writing video I feel a line needs to be draw between criticism of a game and bashing the community. Now in my video about how toxic fandoms are I dive into this more but the point I make is that critism of somehting is fine and people should give that critiscm. But I don't like the tribalism people have of communitites. But the biggest part is, aside from why I dislike your comment, this all wasn't the point. I simply disliked how you made a comparisson between Zet and Dino Dave. And that is all I said. In about 4 sentences. I never said you were fine with Zet. I just said "I think the comparisson is dumb" and from there you have speculated a lot about what I meant and my character when the original point was "I don't like this comparisson". Now I agree with your overall message of being against harassment but as I said, I just don't like the comparisson. And this is what I have been trying to say for the now tenth time I have had to reiterate this point. That is why your feelings towards Zet do not change the context. As the entire context of how I was disecting the message was simply, I do not like the comparisson.
@@Tsunul Honestly I don't really disagree with what you said regarding what you said here. My major issue is that when you take out the context from my own tweet, people can come to the assumption that it was in defense of Zet, especially that's was what you said within the video. My concern came because its really not that hard to backtrack to find the tweet and get harassed by your community who won't read the entire tweet i wrote, take what you said and run with that as the main narrative. That's mainly why I used Dino Dave as a comparison. If the community has no problem discerning the difference between Dino Dave and Zet, at that point they'll find any reason to attack and harass someone they just generally disagree with. The fact that comparison has to be made shows that this is a prevailing issue within the community. When I say you should pay attention to the things you say to your community. It doesn't really have much to do with BA or anything like that. Its because fundamentally as a youtuber you have a name and a face to the community you're a part of. This sounds dumb but its alot different from being a faceless person on twitter (even though we're not anonymous). There's been alot of communities I've seen where content creators try to not hold themselves accountable when drama like this happens because there's the expectation that they'll be held to the same standards that they held for other people and everyone else. Besides I've seen some of your videos (usually at work for the length). I only really say these kinds of things because knowing how fandoms and communities are, the last thing you really want to be in is the receiving end of things when things turn upside. While you may have good intentions and want to open up a discussion regarding various communities and such, the way you portray them actually matters. Doing things the wrong way can bring real harm to someone, especially if they don't have the same platform like you do weither if its on youtube, twitch, etc. While you can have your own disagreements on certain things and I honestly can't really change your mind on your own opinions, trying to push that opinion on to other people leads into harassment and people misunderstanding and getting the wrong idea. In worse situations it leads into genuine misinformation spreading to the point that the misinfo is taken as fact. Which was how these whole series of videos were even made in the first place. *That's the major reason why I had a problem with that section and why I offered up a discussion with you near the end of the twitter comment* Listen I don't have that much stake into PM Community social politics or whatever, I just kinda watch on my timeline and just move about my day. But naturally I would have a problem if some random fan decided to bother me because they couldn't read the entire tweet. Its not right to try to frame part of a whole tweet just to push an argument you want your community to see even if you disagree with it. It makes you no better than Zet (albit to a lesser scale because we're not talking about actual politics here) and it could've put me in real risk of harassment. You need to know about that in the future because these things do happen no matter how much you intended it or not. Well that's just more of my thing. As long I got my thoughts across I'm more or less good enough here. I just kinda want the drama done and over with so I can get on to reading Don's Chapter yeah?
08:18 Peak Accent 🤣 32:05 Peak Ending But seriously though, I hope you've been doing better after releasing this video. Some people will look at this and still twist your words to fit their narrative and their image of you. Regardless of that, we're here for you, yeah? Also when are we gonna do Monster Hunter World with Dememenic and Foreman again huh??? Hit me up~
I think people have already said all that there is to say and I'm glad that you took feedback to your initial video so well. Honestly, even though i'm not as worried as you may be, i do hope that this community will remain nice and non-toxic because this community has had a pretty positive impact on my life. Well, that being said I think we can probably all agree on one thing We should probably normalise just having fun experiencing the games we all love
Hi Welvader. Glad to see you watched this vidya as well I still think I won't be sticking around for long after my overall experience with the community. My vision of it is pretty clouded now. Do hope we can drop kick the possible future of PM being an example of having a terrible community. But with a creator like you in this place. You might be able to set it on the right track again. Just enjoying the game for what it is and not get into stupid controversy too often. Wish the best for your channel man.
This one time like 8 months ago, I saw two Jojo fans making out shirtless at the park and that was the gayest thing I'd ever seen until whatever the hell happened at 31:45.
I really like how you put this out. As much as I don't really like the community where its at rn, it's all I have. I'm just gonna continue making my dog water memes, and ignoring the fanbase. Wish u the best g-chan, don't get stressed dawg.
this video is cool. but this recipe is cooler: *Chicken Ballotine with Herb Stuffing and Madeira Sauce* Ingredients: - *For the Chicken:* - 1 whole chicken (deboned) - Salt and pepper to taste - *For the Herb Stuffing:* - 1/2 cup breadcrumbs - 1/4 cup chopped parsley - 1/4 cup chopped thyme - 1/4 cup chopped sage - 2 cloves garlic (minced) - 1 egg - Salt and pepper to taste - *For the Madeira Sauce:* - 1 cup Madeira wine - 1 cup chicken stock - 2 tbsp butter - 1 tbsp flour Instructions: 1. *Prepare the Chicken:* Start by carefully deboning the chicken, keeping the skin intact. Season the inside and outside with salt and pepper. 2. *Make the Stuffing:* In a bowl, combine breadcrumbs, parsley, thyme, sage, garlic, egg, salt, and pepper. Mix well until the stuffing holds together. 3. *Stuff the Chicken:* Spread the stuffing evenly over the inside of the deboned chicken. Roll the chicken tightly, tucking in the edges to create a log shape. 4. *Tie and Sear the Chicken:* Use kitchen twine to tie the chicken securely in several places. Sear the chicken roll in a hot pan until the skin is golden brown all over. 5. *Roast the Chicken:* Transfer the seared chicken to a preheated oven at 350°F (175°C). Roast for 45-60 minutes, or until the internal temperature reaches 165°F (74°C). 6. *Prepare the Madeira Sauce:* While the chicken is roasting, make the sauce by melting butter in a pan, adding flour, and cooking to create a roux. Gradually whisk in the Madeira wine and chicken stock, cooking until the sauce thickens. 7. *Rest and Slice:* Once the chicken is cooked, let it rest for 10 minutes before slicing it into rounds. Remove the kitchen twine. 8. *Serve with Sauce:* Arrange the sliced chicken ballotine on a serving platter and drizzle with the Madeira sauce. 9. *Garnish:* Optionally, garnish with fresh herbs or serve with a side of roasted vegetables. 10. *Enjoy:* A beautifully presented dish that impresses with both its appearance and flavor.
Limbus is a blessing and a curse. We have a Project Moon content creator renaissance but with the Gacha baggage and overall increasing popularity, the bad apples who have superiority complexes, brainrot, people who force others to adhere to specific standards or be called a racist or sexist, those people will join the community and already have. I won't say exactly that we need to weed out the bad apples but we need to overshadow the bad parts of the community. Spreading awareness of the bad apples will inevitably lead to harassment regardless of if you want it to happen or not and I find that quite sad since I personally believed that just unfollowing and not giving Zet the time of day after I initially found out what kind of person he is was enough. There's a spider-silk thin line between cancellation and spreading awareness of wrongdoing and any community has to get that balance right. It just so happens that Gacha and popularity invites people who don't know how to peacefully interact with the community. Or maybe that's just a generational issue. I hope one day that we as a community can actually live in harmony without having to deal with controversy after controversy and actually manage to make the community welcoming. Great video G-Chan, I hope to see you playing more Hunting Horn in the future.
My very first time on Reddit was thanks to this game and, well, We all know that in Reddit overall there's less toxicity, but I was quite surprised about all of the posts at the Limbus Reddit and at TheOdysseyHadAPurpose: - Good and funny memes. - Quite impressive fanart. - A lot of people being helpful to anyone with a question. - Guides for practically anything, especially the hard stages. - Fan IDs and comments giving positive and constructive feedback. - Up to Date oficial info about the game. - Well informed wikis (we don't talk about wiki fandom XD) - Porn and horny posts still exists but I don't mind them due to usually having great art and the comment section reactions are the best XD I have a great time there and I didn't knew about this toxicity situations until you and Tsunui talked about them and how, even if there are still sides on this topics, a bunch of people didn't seem to care about controversies and enjoy the game and, usually, invite newcomers to experience the story and gameplay. So G-chan, the sentence here it isn't "There's still hope", because "We never run out of hope.".
I’m kinda in the same boat, though for me it’s how I didn’t know how we were perceived by (most likely some) of the other gacha communities, though then again I never really used much outside of RUclips and Reddit as well.
@Gchan69 Your proposed solution to protecting the community is to gatekeep toxic individuals. This approach is deeply flawed for two reasons. First, parts of the community will inevitably make mistakes when deciding who to gatekeep. (Just look at how many people thought Zet was innocent due to your first video.) Secondly, sometimes newcomers will only show their true colors after they’ve entered the community. In either case you have toxic people and bigots in the community and gatekeeping has failed. Your proposed solution to dealing with these bigots is to ignore them and this will only cause harm in the long run. A bigot shouting their views with no one stopping them will attract other bigots and radicalize normal members of the community. As more bigots are drawn in and sensible people leave the community to avoid them, the community becomes dominated by bigots and their ideals. The best way to keep a community healthy and respectful is to push back against toxicity and bigotry whenever it rears up. Obviously this should not be taken to the extremes of harassment and hate. It falls on the community to rein in their fellow members when they go too far. TLDR: Pacifism and neutrality toward bigotry lets it spread like an infection. Fight back without becoming hateful.
I never said to just ignore them completely. Call them out in their BS without going in the extreme like you said. But ignore them in a way to not give their words power. Also you said "The best way to keep a community healthy and respectful is to push back against toxicity and bigotry whenever it rears up. Obviously this should not be taken to the extremes of harassment and hate. It falls on the community to rein in their fellow members when they go too far." This is like.....What I'm trying to say in the video. I'll make this clear, I'll say harassers are bigots too which is why I said those people will push the fanbase over time. Which is why I'm also calling both of these issues out.
I'm gonna be honest. I've heard the words bigoted, ----phobic, prejudiced, racist, etc etc be thrown around so many times I've become numb to such accusations being labeled on people I have followed before. Now ZET's tweets and retweets on minorities are very... Heated to say the least I don't disagree there. What I'm trying to illustrate is that until I actually saw his posts I just went, "Another hate mob over a joke post." And left it at that.
I agree with the gatekeeping part, if you want a perfect example look at Dungeons and Dragons and the absolute cinema going on there, or how warhammer fans are fighting to keep their lore accurate despite the agenda writers are trying to push. I will always welcome new people but the moment they bring toxic mindset trying to make a place all inclusive the product will change to facilitate a all inclusive group, which isn't bad when done correctly but generally it comes with massive retcons, poor execution, and the likes while alienating the original fan base. Also calling a Filipino the Race word is funny, it's like calling the sky blue. (Joke much love from Davao)
Alright before i start talking about my opinion on this mess, i gotta say i LOVE how this video was made and what it's trying to accomplish (also the last part was peak). Alright onto my opinion, it's mostly gonna be about the last minutes because i don't think i can say anything about the other things. So about the community having a superiority complex, i feel like this is too sad to see. I absolutely love this community even tho i rarely interact with it personally, but everyone i've seen enjoying the game is always super nice and chill, you, tsunul, Esgoo, every PM youtuber are all likable in their own way (except Zet now). And i say this because i feel proud to be a part of this community, but these people are proud about them being part of us, while also downgrading other communities for no reason, i really hope the people that do this after seeing your video reflex upon their actions and so that they can improve individually, because if they do, they will improve the community at the same time, spreading positivity and making the community a great place to be in. And for the negative experiences you've had, i relate to this a lot, even tho, as i have said, i don't interact too directly with the community, i've seen the bad side of it too much, and it made me question what the community really was. But then after watching Tsunul's video, and him doing a complete 180 and just telling everyone "would you really believe the majority of the community is like i have shown you?", it made me question myself a lot. I genuinely just have seen too much of the bad part, that it blinded my good experiences and the good experiences i've seen in this community. I've seen people being so supportive and welcoming in this community, people that by enjoying the game's story have been able to even go through difficult times and improve themselves, and it really just made me realize, i love this community. You can be proud of being in this community and enjoy the game more than other gachas that you dislike. I don't like Genshin Impact for example due to personal reasons, but this should not be an excuse to degrade someone else's game that they like and saying their community is garbage. Like in this video is said, do not hate, make love instead. Anyways, i feel like this brought nothing new to the table and it's just me ranting and praising the community while also just sharing my personal experiences. I hope whoever reads this either way has a good day or night wherever you are. Make love, not war.
A visionary have told me this back when Genshin first win the award during goty: - Genshin will defy the genre gacha game for all the future and beyond. I though she was joking back then, telling her: + what, open world? that thing exist back with TLOZ in 1986 :D She just simply smile and say: - you will see :) Welp now looking back, maybe we start to be genshin alike and it is not in the gameplay. Every community have bad people in it, they just need enough to form an army, a campaign like the korean mindset that go and harass a people just because "she deserved it". But like you said in video, 1 people can't change the world but with enough people, even crit can go 1 shot the Blazing bull :D
People never learn since Jellybean incident around 2-3 years ago? I mean that's the true dangerous nature of Dogpilling. I once Complain what's happening on her in Discord Then someone just say "She deserve it" I of course say "The fuck you mean she deserve it?" Like fucking hell boy, you guys really like to say something that I don't want God to hear it. In this case, the targeted person is indeed a bad person but it doesn't truly justify such a mass bullying. Have you seeing a thief when get caught the people suddenly beat him up mercilessly without thinking twice? Yes that's what I mean with.
Great to see this video is out, and i couldn't agree more G-chan. I just hope everything gets better, last thing i want is to see the community that got me the majority of my friends burn. Let us all remain together. Because just like the games teach us. We have to strive to improve, and become the best that we can.
28:17: "How far are we willing to go in order to deplatform him?" We dont even need to "deplatform" him actively, I feel. as You said in 7:55, we should simply ignore him; thats the best you can do and soon enough they fade away in their own echo chamber. on one Hand, yes - We should callout his bigotry in a constructive manner without going to far as the Email Story but on the other Hand.. in the End and my Opinion; Zet/Video Creators generally only lowkey profit from the Hate under Videos as the Comments + Clicks boost Videos(?) So i feel like a way to show an Influencer / Content Creator that he messed up big time is 'dont give the clicks / attention in any way', make the Videos perform badly and make em feel like they are talking to a brickwall and soon enough they maybe they realize the consequences of their actions.
Precisely what I thought as well. lmao XD at them then block and move on and don't contribute anymore to their nonsense. that last bit at 28:17 is pretty much just me talking to the community. For me, my mind was already made up on just lmao XDing him.
I'm going to give my thoughts here as a new project moon fan I got into project moon due to limbus. I played it during launch and it dragged me into the rabbit hole and made me end up playing the previous games. I'm going to say it yeah toxicity has been happening and slowly rising in the project moon fandom. Yeah i agree calling zet out for his actions were right but trying to harrass him is not right at all. Hating on other gacha games is also very freaking wrong. I mean you can criticize the blue archive community and be creeped out by them. I should know since i distance myself from the community and is creeped out by them because of all the "jokes" But just like i commented on those post just ignore them if you don't like it just ignore them unless they are doing something really bad. But i've also had so much fun and enjoyment meeting a lot of new and really amazing people in the fandom. So many really amazing artist animators and some just amazing people. And yeah we should foster a community that's full of love. I'm a moderator on a limbus company(though it's mostly pm fans) Facebook group and i try to tell people to be courteous and not harass other people. Though there are still some bad apples ( I still remember how some terrible people showed up when i uploaded a video of apr while saying to support it and even commenting horrible stuff. I tried talking to them and asking them to be civil but most weren't so I well banned them.) But yeah there's good and bad in the community and I really hope the good outweigh and drown out the bad because i've become quite fond of it. Also fellow Pilipino pog
Don't attribute the toxic traits of a community to everyone. This is why I operate on a person to person basis. You can be suspicious of them but if you consider it guilty until proven innocent that is a dangerous mentality to have.
24:34 You really should've covered that from the beginning... Regardless of whether people know or not, you're making content to inform. Kinda ruins the neutrality angle if you're leaving so much significant information out.
It's more of a I never really thought of putting it in cause really I just saw him as a bigot regardless of his schizo tweeting. So I just kinda lumped both of them together because I thought I really shouldn't have to explain to people why being a homophobe and a racist is a terrible thing. Oh and of course, those tweets slipped my mind cause when I saw them.I Yawned, then I saw Ryoshu art that completely diverted my attention instead.
@@TSRL_ZZ I never wanted to cover these sort of content. Nor is it something I said I was good at. For an entire year I only saw negativity from the community, thats why I made it. I did mention it very briefly. But regardless. My message was that Zet is a bigot. But that doesn't justify harassment And if I included his racism? The message is still Zet is a bigot. But that doesn't justify racism Was it a mistake to not fully cover that part? Yes. Because somehow, even me directly calling him a POS and having a heart full of hatred. Some people still came to the conclusion that he was somehow innocent.
@@Gchan69I don't think we're on the same page. I'm just talking about the fact that people lacking knowledge on the situation will/already have stumbled upon your videos. You say you read what people were saying, but what did you think of all the "I didn't even know this was happening" comments sprinkled throughout? It was your job to give them the full picture and you didn't. You acknowledge this but I'm not sure you actually understand what this means for people from the outside looking in. Saying someone is a bad person or is a crackhead really doesn't illustrate the point at all, community drama the world over varies in severity and gets described in the same manner. For someone who is concerned with how other communities perceive them, you play into stereotypes that make groups like this look bad. Maybe that's what the playing dollies with nuggets bit was all about, wiping your hands of a situation you didn't really help with at all. That said, I'm not a PM fan. I'm a friend of fans and hearing about this is genuinely disappointing to me. Bigotry is undoubtedly unwelcoming, but poorly researched and structured attempts at informing are just as damaging to fostering communities.
@@TSRL_ZZ Oh, I mean I already thought you would have acknowledged the part I said it's still a valid critique that I failed the entire part which I mentioned in the video. I only gave a lil more depth reason why it slipped my mind to convey the retweets properly The reason I'm telling people to treat him like a local racist crackhead is because people care too much about goddamned online pressence. If that sort of behavior is taken into the real world. Everyone just laughs at him with amusement. Which is exactly what I thought when I saw his retweets. Why should I care if he thinks I'm subhuman? I've had more problems with my boss being racist towards me at my workplace because that shit actually hinders my livelihood. I don't know how you also got that idea that I used to illustrate the nuggets as a way to "wipe my hands" Am I supposed to just take all the misinformation and accusations that I am a sympathizer? When even Tsunuls video had some parts that we're poorly presented and straight up got everything about my conclusion wrong. That part with the nuggets is to reinforce my thoughts and provide a solution as to how to deal with internet bigots. And also a way to tell people to stop caring so much about the online presence of an internet racist
Nautilus pompilius spoted in the video. (Music in 21:43 it's a cover by Анна Ефремова. The song is called Скованные одной цепью). I am also glad that you made this respond and clarified the situation with other youtubers. Dialogue in this world is very important now, especially in these times
As a longtime viewer of your channel, a bi guy, and a PM player/fan since Ruina (was too young when Lob came out, and I’m bad at base management, so I just watched it growing up). Thanks for filling me in on this situation-I typically avoid drama, so I wasn’t aware that was a thing that happened, and have now unsubscribed from Zet. Wasn’t aware he was homophobic, as I don’t use twitter and hadn’t watched much of his stuff. Not sure if I qualify as a part of the ‘PM community’, as I’m just a RUclips viewer and game player who only engages on the discord side of things like once a year (just too busy, and have too many other interests)…but from my perspective I’ve also got a lot of hope for y’all. For every bit of drama I’ve avoided paying too much attention to, this community has heaps of fan art, fun discussions, gameplay walkthrough/guides, and fun events. I’m sure y’all will pull through and not become a ‘Genshin’ community. Much love to ya G-Chan, excited to see what content you make in the future
23:00 No, compromise is reasonable. Most of Zet's points were spawned from looking at exclusively the worst among minorities. As long as people make it clear that they don't want to be associated with actual groomers/malefactors in their community, and maybe even pitch in raising awareness about them, then he may realize he can still be resentful but not of a greater whole.
People on social media need to learn to block shitty people and move on from the situation. Yeah this individual is terrible and it's good to bring that behavior to light, but after that it just sucks to keep seeing anything about them on the TL over and over again. Like what's the point in constantly bringing up how shitty the person is to followers who already agree they're shit and are just gonna be more miserable at seeing more of the trash they posted. It reminds me too much of kiwifarms lolcow culture. It shouldn't matter how rancid the person in question is, constantly obsessing over what they do is bad FOR you and you are a better person for spending your time touching grass and enjoying life. Let people like zet stay miserable alone, its okay to move on.
Fucking based.IMO your first video on this topic wasn't the best, but this is a different story. I'm glad you learned about the brighter side of the community, because I had a very positive experience with it too. Just want to add: don't lose hope because of the toxic side of the community. There is always another side of the coin.(ha, get it?...coin...)
Quick note: The second last section is the reason why I was annoyed when Tsunul said the PM community was fine and perfectly normal. I see people getting hate over the dumbest things and he acted like none of it existed. Hell, he even agrees that Blue Archive is for p***s and encouraged that behavior. While I understand it's likely just because his feed is filled with art of Sinclair and regular PM behavior, but he is very clearly ignoring the side of the community that makes us look literally insane. (One person believed that cuties was on the same level as Blue Archive ffs).
I think Tsunul is aware of issues of PM community. I just don't think it was phrased well or to it's full context, but he did acknowledge people being jumpy with the vellmori situation. He just ended up summarizing it as typical internet behavior for any fandom. He's not wrong. But it did sorta downplay the issues with how it was presented. But I do believe me and Tsunul agree overall that doing dumb toxic shit in the internet is unacceptable behavior at the end of the day.
@@Gchan69 yeah he probably did not literally mean it is utterly fine, but when it's literally in a video calling out you for not representing something properly resulting in a misinterpretation... it's a bit of a misstep. But I must clarify that I do believe that he doesn't believe the community is utterly without fault. He's not Don Quixote.
For my own mental health, I'm just not gonna touch any discord or twitter. Better to quietly enjoy a good story than have toxic, horrible vibes poison what I enjoy. And those vibes can come from ALL sides. To people saying I need to 'help with the witchhunts'. You can take your mob elsewhere. G-chan, for your own mental health as well, I completely agree that you avoid drama topics. No matter what.
A valid point, Mr. Shapiro. However... 1:30 Refuting doesn't mean having to take the bait. There were a lot of bad faith replies in that thread that were looking to get a rise out of her, that's not the kind of stuff you're supposed to refute. 1:58 She already knows Blender, it wasn't a learning process. I've looked at her twitter she's posted her Blender work months before the commission ever took place 3:19 Disagree because for the price that Zet paid, making a better model would have been an even bigger waste of time than it already was. Could I have gotten a better deweeding job done on my backyard garden than what I got paying somebody who's not used to it $20? Yeah but for $20 wtf am I supposed to complain about. 3:34 So if I get a like-new refrigerator from Facebook Marketplace for like $150 when the same model new goes for $800 and the instructions clearly tell me I'm supposed to plug it into the outlet, I have a right to be mad at the seller, because the fridge didn't plug itself into the outlet the moment I took it home? I have every right to discuss the problems with the product I received because I paid for it. It's unreasonable user error for something I got a $650 discount on but hey, I bought it I can complain about it right? 4:19 "He's a piece of shit but don't go after him lol" well you opened the floodgates yourself the moment you woke up and decided to upload a drama video about him, what kind of grandstanding is this.. 7:20 You're so opposed to hate campaigns that you inadvertently started one with your last video, I get that it wasn't your intention but you should have had the consequences in mind before you hit the upload button. 10:04 Ok I just kinda felt the need to not mention these huge paragraphs that appear for a split second (I read all of them btw), but put that stuff in your script man, it looks unprofessional. Also some people listen to audio only just letting you know they're not gonna see these paragraphs while they're exercising or making dinner or something 11:45 You did manipulate information in favor of Zet by deliberately withholding information like his tweet history and all that. If you want to maintain a neutral stance you have to do your job and educate anybody who isn't in the know about why Zet sucks otherwise it looks like you're sweeping all of that under the rug 15:05 Did you or did you not fan the flames yourself, intentionally or not, by uploading that original video? If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. 15:35 Again please put stuff like this in your script 19:31 I feel like a high school teacher grading somebody's essay when I have to nitpick like this every so often. Put this in your script 20:09 Where screenshots? I could say I texted William Tell praising him for composing his Overture and he gave me a virtual pat on the back but nobody will take me at face value if I don't provide proof of the interaction 20:38 If you're a shartposter then please stay in your lane and don't do drama videos. Also the following slide has a paragraph, you know what I'm gonna say 22:46 I'm not gonna say it. 23:38 Yeah because your video didn't show the kinds of stuff Zet retweets, do you know how many comments you have here and on the original video that say something like "I didn't know this was happening" it's your duty as the person who brought it up to educate them properly on the situation and the previous video failed to do just that 24:06 If you mention it briefly but don't go in-depth then you're sweeping it under the rug 24:16 It's relevant because it's part of his general behaviour, even if it wasn't the focus it's still a relevant tidbit of information that helps illustrate the kind of character he is 24:33 So you admit that you half-assed it? 24:51 Script. 24:58 Script. 26:53 27:16 Yeah I agree that sucks 27:59 30:24 If we want to not get swept away in a tidal wave of controversy then it starts with good complete coverage of any controversial situations that arise, what we do from here on is dictated by clarity and a lack of misinformation about whatever happens 31:16 one last time to sign it off
>Say my video makes me look unprofessional because theres parts I don't say out loud >Expects me to just leak my DMs with Zet You only talk about professionalism when it's convient to you. You're not worth talking to.
@@Gchan69 You are absolutely unprofessional lol this nothingburger of a reply is proof of that. Leaking implies that it was done without explicit consent from Zet. Of course ask him first. What, did Tsunul leak his DMs with Kerocola when he showed proof of interaction in his video? If you or Zet didn't want to show it the least you could have said was something about confidentiality but you didn't - so now you have this ambiguity where you claim to have contacted him but nothing is explicitly stopping you from showing proof of it And yes, the parts of this video that have unspoken paragraphs imply you came up with these points AFTER recording and sometime during editing, and rather than record these new lines, you decide to half-ass it by only getting half of your point across, that's being textbook unprofessional at its finest Lord almighty you are as dumb as they say. Good riddance that you'll be out of my notifications, I try helping and you immediately jump at my throat. Absolute neanderthal behavior lol.
@@Gchan69 It's funny how you just assumed you would be doing right by everybody by making this video only to repeat several of your mistakes and learn basically nothing from the first video, honestly the only way to salvage this now is just deleting both videos and never sticking your nose into drama content again
@@Gchan69 So your first response to what seems to be genuine critique, written by somebody who ostensibly watched the video judging by their wide berth of notes replete with timestamps, is to laser focus on one point that they made whilst ignoring everything else, misinterpret said point, and lash out at them? What a failure you are. If this is the way you're going to act, never upload another video again.
@@Gchan69 Your every response under this video shows that you learned nothing, all this is just a repeat of your original video, just putting a new spin on it as if you have "learned" anything. Stick to memes.
(unfortunately some people stop watching very early on soo) TL;DR: Zet was someone who was not nice (im putting it VERY lightly here) and G-chan is NOT defending him. Harrassment is bad, PERIOD. It is not good and does not help whatsoever, even if its done to an asshole (Zet). What does it lead to? S*icide, Doxxing, etc. You know what it leads to even if theres a very low chance of it happening. Due to these recent events, some people have likened PM community to the toxic traits of the Genshin community, but good news: we can circumvent this. The more hateful stuff there is, the less good stuff that everyone else can enjoy. (Most of the points are explained in detail in the video, so go and watch it)
i'm going to be honest, seeing Nuggets with shiny anime eyes being racist should not make me laugh this much, it just so silly Edit: got to the end of the video and honestly I need to give my own grain of sand to this conversation I been a fan of Project Moon since a year and a half by now, got into it when a Streamer I like started playing the games and friends convice me to play it, and I love it so much, sometimes I fell that the games were made for me, they world building, they story, how they focus so much on personal grow and maturity in this hellscape that they call City, love Project Moon games so much, and they bring such a joy to my life yet I dont consider myself part of the fandom anymore, as other people I also got to see the bad side of the comunity, also got to see the harrasment that happen on discord, the discussion, the insults to new people for not undestanding stuff, how beliving anything else that is not the norm would get you ignored the funny part, is that all of that come out of people similar to Zet's, people that dont think of they own human beings as brothers, but as less that dirt, and I got to see how slowly but surely, the entire comunity I was part of fell into it, every day the hate became more, small jokes became big discussions, racism stoped being called out, rules where not enforced, and the place I once called home became almost otherwordly, it was like seeing a monster out of something I loved, and I fell so sick, pretty much everyone knew that it was fuck up, and a nest for people with lots of horrible ideas about the world and other people, and it did not start like that, it started like one of the most comfortable places that I have been, as someone that was on horrible fandoms, being on one that made me fell so comfortable with being myself was such a new experience, yet it will never be the same if you give them a meter, they will take a kilometer and as someone that as always been triying to be the most friendly person in this world, that has made friends with almost everyone, that was cared for so much for both lgbt people, and people that hated lgbt, as someone that as seen people change they ways, mature and stop hating so much, I have seen literaly nazi's change they thinking to the point they are the thing they once hated, I dont think ignoring thing is the solution, we need to call them out, we need to make them responsible for they action, is true that everyone has it own story, of why they are like they are, but hate will not stop until it consumes everything, if its not, it will end up being the new rule they are humans, and have the same right as everyone else to be loved and love, but not because of that we need to let them have they way, because if they do, they will take everything else with them too.
I personally disagree with the point on gatekeeping. I think it should be acknowledged that the community originated on four chan and people like ZET were founding members of it.
Really late reply cause been busy recently and I didnt expect to still receive comments on this vid I mean I never really said we should completely disregard Zets history. I do think I should have explained more in the video Zet did have a lot of impact on the community way back then. He formed a lotta collabs and connected a bunch of the OG PMtubers back then and just generally spread a lot of positivity during that time and I'm not going to just throw that history down in the gutter. That's why it's really dishesrtening to see him go towards this route. I can't support his overall views anymore nor am I going to collab with him again. But I will not downplay the positive influences he had back then.
@Gchan69 I understand and respect that entirely. But I do think the idea of ignoring him ends generally poorly. I do think the initial hate mob and harassment campaign had to happen. If he was softly let out of the community, it would have been a signal.. I feel there's a saying that if you let one N*zi into a bar, it becomes an N*zi bar. But I believe it is additionally true that if you let someone off easy. Others will think they will get it away with it and try to insert themselves into the community. Ignoring that old uncle only works because he's the only one in the family who believes those things. While I'm against harassment in most situations, I understand that sometimes decisive action must be made. Which is mostly from personal experience watching communities become slowly unsafe for minorities like myself online. I don't agree with the signing up his work email for porn sites. But I'm not against the hate mob on Twitter.
I just played 10 hours straight of ONE game of multiplayer yesterday. Managed to defeat one of the awakened empires with my brother... but holy shit does the ALL Crisis option hits hard. Unbidden then Scourge next? How fucked up am I?
oh no i think the blue archive thing is like gatekeeping since blue archive players have this uh, image of being weirdos. (I personally absolutely hate blue archive players since they called Don Quixote a "l*li baba" and thought that was fucking disgusting.) I don't exactly condone a hate campaign but... i do understand the sentiment behind people who wish to completely gatekeep its existance.
Both fandoms gatekeep hard, but they are an uneasy "alliance" because of how PM brainrot evolved, people who gatekeep BA players away more likely than not hate the meme of seeing Loland on any black haired man wearing a suit Source: I stalk my enemies
@@thischannelisajoke6810you sure a large amount? If that is large, then wow the PM community is the size of the Eurasian continent. Treat them like a racist crackhead at 711. They are simply... IRRELEVANT. I wish people would stop magnifying the toxic minority. It's like an ant that you willingly place in your skin and when bites, you vehemently complain about it. You can just simply step on it and pass on.
As someone who's been paying attention when Gchan dmed about this whole situation. It makes me feel very sad. I left the active part of the community because I saw how rabbid the community got in such a short amount of time. Tbh the community is so disgusting I ended up joining blue archive because despite all the gross people, at least no one is pretending they're good people when they go out to harass people... i guess? The doomer part of me thinks that PM is fucked as so long this type of behavior is accepted by larger figureheads in the community and isnt properly called out when it should be. No, harassment isnt justified at all. Block them and isolate them, but dont leave excessive hate comments thinking they'll leave the internet or kermit. Thats very immature and Im sure many people would be quicker to absolve themselves from responsibility than hold themselves accountable. Anyway, gchan instead of using ryn as a sona, maybe just use yourself in the maid outfit to differentiate between the two. Okay thanks.
Watching through this, all I can even say anymore is just “why?” I want things to get better, I really do, I still have some hope that things will get better, that things can change for the better. But unfortunately, I alone can’t change the direction of the community, I can’t change the tide, I don’t even know what to do anymore honestly. And looking at how we are viewed by other communities kind of stings in a way, since my first exposure was welcoming too, like most others, but seeing this just kinda feels a bit… dire. I still have hope things can change, heck I still have hope that, by some miracle, how we’re seen can change too, ironically I didn’t even know that how we were viewed changed until I watched this very video, but it still stings a lot to hear since I loved the arknights x limbus content, sad to see that bridge might have been burned. But again, bridges can still be rebuilt, honestly with what little advice I can give: we gotta tone it down. Way down. You can call out others yes but not to the degree of what we’ve been doing, there is a point where too far is too far. I doubt many will see this, I doubt many will even agree with me here. But honestly all i can really do is hope, at least that’s how it feels sometimes. We gotta actually follow the advice of what the games are trying to tell us. There’s still hope for change but we gotta actually start DOING something about it. That’s all I can write right now, ‘cause I dunno what else to say anymore. Even with all the positive things that happened, I don’t want this community to become a cancer.
Even if this video has it's share points At some point again drama will arise and split the community apart again It's not about make love, not war It's facing the fears, building the future. No matter how many choices it made, there's gonna be a road less taken to follow through. As always If you're feeling a bit frustrated over PM drama, play comfort games or Play Warframe As always G-chan, take care and focus onto your mental health. " Vashtav, mara lohk."
It's pretty much what I was saying in my conclusion. That hopefully we reached a proper conclusion from here that the community can move forward and learn from it's mistakes. The make love not war part is to demonstrate me and Tsunul settling our differences. We have conflicting views and opinions but rather than bickering over stupid internet issues. We came to a common ground. Had we just fought over this nonsense it would have just fractured the community further. From here. I just hope people learn to settle their differences with one another and just enjoy the game for what it is.
@@Gchan69 Well Unfortunately, you can't change people minds, they will fight and bicker over things and it's just part of how we lived today It's not about the game, it's about who's gonna win this pointless arguments You, Tsunul, I, and Everyone are flawed human beings, can't control our emotions or decisions, all we did was to add fuel to the countless Drama and arguments. Guess my take on this video is : It's not about love or war, it's about winning this pointless war, no matter what the controversial takes it has.
@@Gchan69 Right but in the End, Like i said in my comment, i don't delve into drama too much but it's for the better that the community should gatekeep their own series and not blend into one another
I agree. Some people are basically distorting by caring too much of toxic minorities, they are eventually turning into the ones they hate... How much enkephalin boxes do these guys produce to make it worth the toxicity? I bet it's only 3
Wow, yknow, its like terminally online people should touch grass instead of wasting their time bullying people. In the words of civvie11, "twitter was never good." On top of that, i dont think its just the story pmoon "elitists" are bullying and gatekeeping over. Its the attitude they take towards anyone having a problem getting through a difficult segment of any of the games, responding with the same cadence and prose as the people that made the dark souls community look bad: "fuk u, git gud lol" with an added "just read the mechanics fuckface". Also g-chan, i think its time for your "reject drama, return to shitpost" arc.
There are people who arn't sticking with Project Moon for the story? Why? I am confused by that. The story, art, and concepts are the only reason I followed it into a gacha game.
zet is a dbag and the rest of the video explains perfectly why, but I honestly really do not see anything wrong with the vtuber model fiasco even the 'public lambasting', they were both unprofessional, and including a small thing like that in the video only dilutes the message I feel like. Kinda like 'Biggie was fat' iykyk
While I do agree with your overall argument. but the quality of your first video is quite questionable to say the least and it has mangled the point hard.
te sere sincero papi porque yo te veo desde el inicio esto es algo que pasara tarde o temprano xd la gente tiende a ser muy emocional y tratar de no balancear con la logica es una guerra perdida jaja pero welp se que ignorar el problema no ayudara pero es mejor solo estar con un pequeño grupo que esta bien con todo mientras no tepases de gil xd a que estar con muchagente que se arda por todo
I have a question about your example im 9:20, what is exactly toxic about it? I'm genuinely asking. I don't see it as being toxic but rather just an opportunity for the artist to learn how to draw the characters properly, and darker skin tones in general, which yes are more complex to draw. In my opinion it depends how you convey the message because it CAN be toxic, but I don't think it's always toxic
I mean I never said it's always toxic. I'm not gonna label people who give constructive advice to draw dark skin colors better as toxic I'm refering to those that attack the artist for not drawing them dark enough or some dumb shit. Which is the case I see 90% of the time.
There's really no denying that once limbus got popular with twitter crowd, the community underwent big changes. Suddenly one day people labeled pm work queer and actively propagate those ideals, while one of the appeals of the PM games was the fact that they never touched the subject. The whole zet situation is the example of how harmful this mob mentality is. I don't care if he actually is shitty person or not. Most likely his reaction is the result of overload of queer propaganda in modern days. Even the mentioned vtuber was nothing but a zealot providing queer "examples" on the level of: two characters care for each other, help each other and value each other, but the same gender, yeah, they definitely bang. Oh, the character is androgynous? Wow, this is so groundbreaking and modern. All I want to say is that the main message is correct, hate creates hate, so let's not start any wars. But as long as there are radicals on one side, there would always be radicals on the other. The only difference is that now those radicals try to depllotform already a niche creator who was mostly just having fun with the games that he likes. Not to mention the impact Zet had on pm community in the early days, back when all those modern slop creators were not even aware of PM works.
Good points, but they will never reach G's mind. He's just a dirty invader that doesn't care if real life people get killed or groomed, because he defends the other races and the LGVT rainbow mafia. He's worse than Zet, because Zet only wanted to fight the diversity cult and make awareness of how sick and disgusting those "poor minorities" are. He will not respond you, heck, I assure you he's laughing in his inmigrant cave at the very moment he sees your comment
It's funny because PM games have good LGBT rep. And even better, they don't preach it like it's heaven-sent scripture. It's simply SSR tier storytelling, and they are added spices that people enjoy in their PM dish, nothing more. I just hope people stop distorting... there's enough already swarming in the Limbus dungeons.
@@jayzenstyle Can you tell when did PM make LGBT characters or representation? I played all the games, but I never saw any of that. Are you sure you aren't hallucinating?
"Dont bully every one" While you condemn zed just to appease your political allies without giving him a chance to explain where his point comes from Cancel colture 101 telling someone that they are a bad person and isolating them from any possibility of growth and listening to them, what a hypocrite you are
Look back at 20:01 I gave him a chance to speak. We spoke fully in our DMs and I even said his issues are something that can be tackled and addressed with. But that area goes into politics at that point and it's an area that I'm no longer willing or comfortable to step into that area
Another thing I'm adding on. because you said "telling someone that they are a bad person and isolating them from any possibility of growth and listening to them" There's a lot of times creators especially like arcangela tried to pull him out of the path he was taking. There's a time where he just lost his shit and the other creators tried to contact him to ask him what was wrong only for them to be ghosted. And at that point, just wasn't interested with having his views challenged anymore.
I see what you're trying to say, but it doesn't change the way the subject was treated, Zen wan't made "a Racist crackhead" but more like a folk devil, and the part of "arcangela tried to pull him out of the path he was taking" makes me realy think of a cult like behaviour. which doesn't surprise me that Zen has decided to isolate himself, especially after the various experiences of people who have gone against him, and the various videos that have been made about him. I agree with what you say about the community, but still embellishing the whole speech with: "he is a piece of shit", "a cunt", or even "a Racist crackhead" doesn't help much on your topic. people will see the negative and always look for drama, even though I was a bit of a jerk in the way I wrote the comment, I still stand by my opinion that Zen has been treated unfairly by everyone, including you.
@@mattia300299 Let me write the timeline how this went down Zet had ghosted and burned bridges with a lot of other creators back before the bong bong incident even occured. During that time. A handful of creators contacted him during this time (for this case it's only the OG members that contacted him like arcangela, dino dave) So I think it's worth noting that a handful of creators had tried to reach out to him before any of the shitfest of his tweets even happened. They didn't get a respond back which is why I believe it's Zets decision to ultimately isolate himself before any of this even happened. And lasty, for my video. I was the creator who humanized him the most. I was the only one that ever said that despite his schizo posting, the issues he is facing is 100% real. The only reason I didn't give him inch for his belief is because it is absolutely extreme to the point it has become guilty until proven innocent. And at that point There is no longer comprimise to give. But to this day I still wish he turns back on his radical beliefs. I'm not going to undermine his achivements. He made waves of influence during the LOR days of PM. He reached out to a lot of creators for collabs and he spread A LOT of positivity in the community during this time That's why its so absolutely heart breaking to see him take this path and even see him mistreat people I really wish I can help him, but hes gotta help himself first.
the video is good but aaaa one problem, both the LGBT community and extremists bigots are at the same line but different ideology, when I explained on a neutral text with facts from online, got verbally insulted and even the vtuber you mentioned, she also joined to act like some LGBT zealot, and the zealot is the problem, people have became pure zealots for there ideals that they never accept anything but what they want, same when I commented as in what zen did was wrong as why attack some that didn't do anything to you but also explained why tho there's hate and people supporting zen as you can see online on what happens with LGBT people being zealots and even trying to replace men and women and even saying mothers day is a threat to there existence like what? it's basically when you have a zealot group that would do anything to be on top, and when you have one zealot group... you have 100 more, you have the woke mob, the red necks, the 3 k's group, those are examples out of the thousands, plus there's the other case about a lot of PDFiles going under the protection of the LGBT community, like if you don't watch your community and let bad actors go in, that's on your community, like you have people in even in Thailand having lady boys that are more respected and funny thing that the LGBT community are somewhat in war with them... like what? friendly fire or something? like you can't make this up, and when you point out why you are getting disgusting hate with online proof, you get attack, and that goes for both sides
@@maxwellboop everyone tries to treat it as "The LGBT Community" but tbh its basically impossible to make a coherent community out of a trait that doesn't determine anything else about yourself if anything, there are a bunch of smaller "LGBT communities" (or, communities that are focused around being LGBT) and some of them are an absolute nightmare, but others are actually really chill ...ironically, the nightmare ones are really bad _especially_ if youre LGBT yourself, due to Reasons (no being LGBT doesn't make you safe . its actually the exact opposite) it creates this really Weird situation where its like . people from the outside look in (to the nightmare communities) and go "wow this is terrible, are all lgbt people like this" but they dont even realize its exactly the same on the inside (makes sense, since they probably havent seen it from the inside), its just kinda bad for everyone and a lot of lgbt people hate the worst parts of it too
Hopefully this closes the book on this fiasco once and for all. If you don't want to sit through with me talking for 30 minutes non stop. skip to 31:45 for a TLDR. You won't regret it.
I was late to upload this, youtube isn't my 1# priority. But hopefully this will cement and show my views in a much more clear picture now.
If you have any disagreements or questions. Please leave them down below. Best way to handle conflicting views is to discuss them.
Wait you don't have freckles? Damn, you are a rynpostor...
Gchan you forgor to pin your comment.
Also, I'm really happy about you finding a barrell of hope in all of this. I wanted to leave a comment because... Well, maybe just to speak up.
I wrote on Tsunul's video as well, saying that he comes off as quite hatefull towards you, only offhandedly stating that is understandable since it was a new type of video for you, and that he generally agrees, but said again, really shortly.
("Comes off" because I know Tsunul is an adult that knows how to handle his emotions, and so does not ruin himself over taxicity or a call out. But still, I think it would be better to pair the non-harrassment message with non-hatefull speech. Which I think you handled better for Zet. Yes you called him a variety of things but also repeated over and over to either stay calm, ignore or just don't descend into hatred to respond).
By his video I also thought you actively cropped the Drama Vtuber statement, but here I sincerely also understood "an" instead of "and", so I'm honestly sorry that such a small thing brought so much problems, it just sucks.
As a Last thing that mentions Tsunul response, his reaction and breakdown of the "Two radicals and the neutrals" talk is the one I also told him I felt he missunderstood.
Like, when he called the people in the middle "Braindead I guess" I could only think "Tsunul what the hell, are you butthurt for the call-out of how you responded to Zet and just think of all the messages in bad lights now?"
In any community (usually small ones, like 30~50 peoples) I'm the one that has to say "Understand the meaning of my words. Do not hang on single words, do not stretch my logics to make them a strawman. The message is what matters, and any prejudice can only harm to that"
And in that ottic, I think your starting video still does good. I arrived and thought "Oh, this is a video about personal thoughts and feelings", and did not think of it as something that should inform me of everything going on in the community, you come off as really passionate in both that one and this one, so is even clearer how it talks and remains about your feeling and thoughts, and not a documentary (Still, missearing the "an" to "and" sucks hard)
Anyway, sorry for the messy message, just kinda wanted to reach out and speak.
As a funny thing, that I intend as a teas:
Hey, you spoke to not antagonize Blue archive fans, but in the same sentence you antagonized the Genshin community?
How could you?
I play genshin you know? How dare you?!
(I repeat, as a teas. Limbus is my only Gacha because PM got me into it. But I'm guilty of seeing The Blue archive meme and thinking "Pfft, yeah, we don't have matching freaks" because like... There was a guy saying how one of the lo*is was his wife and did a balls check on him everyday, and just, Twitter showing the "Uuuoooooohhh, Correction!!!" and leaving an impression on me)
@@Conte_Della_Malasorte Thanks for your input. As for the genshin part. If you look at 26:19 I specified in there I said genshin route is because that is what the genshin community has been marked as now. Of course in no way does it really represent its entire playerbase. But their bad apples are incredibly loud and we could end up like them if we keep going this route.
G-Chan. What did BongBong teach Dakota when she gave the soda gun in 24:25. She taught LGBT or how to ban people like she did in 4-chan?
Bump this comment if you, too, are a normal person who enjoys PMoon without being an extremist
Sorry, I am beyond the point of fanaticism, so I am NOT normal about it.
sorry but i got so obsessed to the point i dragged 3 different people into the rabbithole
I always neutral regarding any issues....
Sorry, i AM beyond the point of normal, i cosplayed dante
@@blur3d0ut dante is so bad 😍😍
I really do hope all of us can rest after all of this.
Think rationally, and don't let emotions overwhelm you.
Peace upon you guys
Yeah, this whole thing highlighted the dangerous path the PM EN community was going down for a bit. This has been one of the nicest communities I've encountered (going from brainrot memes to answering questions about Limbus immediately when someone asked as a major example for me since I don't use Twitter), so to see the extremes that people went to was very shocking.
Like most people, I really don't want to see this community go down in flames. The PM games (especially Limbus/Ruina) are rather important and close to my heart to me. I don't interact with the community much anymore outside of talking about things with friends on occasion (trying to curb the brainrot for personal mental health reasons), but seeing the back and forth of this whole debacle was disheartening.
I do respect you for taking the time to clarify your points from the original video and showing that there's room for respectful dialogue. There's hope yet for the community to go back before we hit the point of no return.
31:46 absolutely peak moment.
And for 17:49 I knew about the person disliking Zet but that wasn't important for what I was saying, the quote is:
"So I’ve covered why I think G Chan’s video was actively harmful in its messaging due to a lack of research and under-explained points when it comes to a topic this nuanced. I’ve also covered why Zet is. Yeah. Now let’s talk about the Project Moon community. Do I think it gives way to quick tribalism against what people say is bad? Yep, same happened with the Vellmori situation last year. Do I think Zet is inherntely the best mouthpiece to display this problem with? No, you literally pulled up someone most people in the world would have a problem with, not the most iron cast point to make your statement. He’s literally just an idiot who swallowed too many red pills and can't think for himself. Combine that with laziness and a lack of care for the people within his community, you got your local forest halfing. I think the Dino Dave point hammers the message much better. But since the video wasn’t that in depth and specific of its messaging, you had people equate the negative opinions on Zet as the same to opinions on Dino Dave. And here’s the key difference. Dino Dave gave opinions about a video game, Zet gave hateful opinions on real groups of people. To equate the two of them is dumb."
Showing that my point was removed from how the video showed Zet's character. The message about it lacking depth in its messaging is what ties into my comment of people equating Dino Dave and Zet's harassment. Because I don't believe the two can be compared unless someone specifically states the key differences in them. As Dino Dave was harassed over his opinions on a ficitional game. Zet was harassed over saying... I mean yeah. So them saying their dislike to Zet doesn't matter to the point I was making. I was just saying that I dislike people so easily drawing a line between the two cases when the orgins for them are completely different. The comparisson I said in DM's was:
"To me, its like taking two scenarios.
Where in one, someone punches you in the face.
And in the other someone bumps into you.
Then you try to say the reaction to someone punching you in the face is bad because, well what if you did it to the person who bumped into you. Category A and B are in different worlds, and to compare them, nuance is needed."
So just simply, as I said, "To equate the two of them is dumb." that's really all it was for.
Hi, person who made the quote RT. Tried contacting you through G chan and tbh, I genuinely think you completely missed my message.
Maybe to you it felt like downplaying Zet action despite the fact that its been stated that Zet had it coming. The bigger issue was pointing out the fact of how easy it is for the community to jump on harassing someone for whatever reason, not necessarily because of what specifically what Zet did.
A good recent example is what happened to Kokoro and how the community harassed him for making a blue archive joke in a Limbus. If these sorta things comes down to the proper optics, then whats really stopping anyone from attacking people over the things they say or do online. You should know this because you own community pays attention and listens to you when it comes to the opinions of other gacha games and how that reactions came down to them saying some shitty things to other communities/people.
Trying to remove the point and completely censor the main message doesn't really make your point look better, it just, to me, feels like you can't really have a discussion where you point of views can be challenged, esp from someone who isn't actively participating in the Limbus community.
Im not saying these things because I'm some sort of hater or a Zet sympathizer (god no, im a woman of color for fucks sake). But I don't like content creators who like to talk about crap shit other communities have while blatantly ignoring their own because their fanbase is what pays the bills at the end of the day.
EDIT:
From some people outside of the PM community, i.e other gacha game communities. Theres already a bad reputation of PM/Limbus community members seeing people being extremely egotistical because their game doesn't have fanservice/male gaze and attack other communities on that notion despite the fact that the community regular sexualizes characters, especially characters such as sinclair. So as a result, you might want to keep that in mind regarding everything thats been going on.
Hopefully things like these situations dont happen again because i rather not have the community degrade because of the release of a gacha game, but I wouldn't be surpised if it turned out that way.
@@whyr1s Wait I may be misunderstanding but are you saying I've ignored the bad things from the PM community?
@@Tsunul A little yeah.
I dont really blame you considering its not really easy to criticize a community you're a part of. But after being in many many gacha communities and being on the internet for the better part of my years, i can't help but see alot of the bias you have towards other communities and PM.
Its less of a, PM is bad specifically and more about how fandoms have become especially post covid. So its generally alot better to have a bit more control in the perception of the community without it becoming something like genshin, where clearly its not a majority of the community who acts that way, but because no one directly call out how bad it is, bad behavior continues until it gets the reputation it has.
(Typing on moble makes formatting shit 🙇♂️)
@@whyr1s Well, I would recommend watching my state of the internet video. Because, in half of that video I criticize the PM community. I talk about the harassment my friends have received form it, the harassment I have received, and I talk about how everyone was at each others throats during the VM incident. Now, in that video I also say one important thing. "I don't like how people will guess so much about someone's character off of so little. Or how they will judge someone without fully knowing them." Paraphrasing but more or less thats what I was saying. And I feel as though you have just done that. From my perspective you have just assumed that I never called out the harassment from the PM community, when my most viewed video is me specifcially doing that, and calling for people to not harass others. Now you also said in your comment:
"Even thought you may try to disown people with extreme thoughts like this, within your own community, you have people who would and will do this again to other people. Sure for now, we can say that Zet deserved this, but what it is to say about people like Dino Dave? Did they also deserve to get harassed because of their own personal opinion regarding Limbus Company the game?"
To me this feels like your saying people in my community would also go after Dino Dave, when within that same video, I talked about the harassment he recevied and why I hate it. So that is why I do not particularily like your comment, it feels like its guessing so much of my character without time spent behind knowing my character. Then there's parts like:
"You should know this because you own community pays attention and listens to you when it comes to the opinions of other gacha games and how that reactions came down to them saying some shitty things to other communities/people."
And I'm curious about the meaning of this as I don't really know what you're refering to. If I were to hold a guess I'd say it's maybe within regards to BA? Though it could be the LCB writing video you're refering about? Regardless for something like BA I have said over and over that I don't like the game but if you play it you shouldn't be harassed. Found within my state of the internet video as well.
"Y’know here’s the thing, I’ve talked a lot of shit about Blue Archive and in the future, imma talk even more shit. But that doesn’t come from a place of hating the people who play it, hell some of my friends grind it out on the daily. All the shit I talk isn’t meant to be taken seriously. My opinion when it comes to stuff in general is, if you’re not actively harming yourself or anyone else then I don’t got a reason to bother you or hate you. Live and let live, if someone wants to play a video game then I got infinitely better shit to do with my time then to hate on them. Now imma still make sobbing emoji jokes about the game, don’t get it twisted. Hell I already got some written for a future video, but sincerely. Not everything you see on the internet is someone being 1000% serious about their views on a specific topic. Holy shit jokes exist, but I’ll cover this point in much more detail later. "
And if that statement comes from the writing video I feel a line needs to be draw between criticism of a game and bashing the community. Now in my video about how toxic fandoms are I dive into this more but the point I make is that critism of somehting is fine and people should give that critiscm. But I don't like the tribalism people have of communitites.
But the biggest part is, aside from why I dislike your comment, this all wasn't the point. I simply disliked how you made a comparisson between Zet and Dino Dave. And that is all I said. In about 4 sentences. I never said you were fine with Zet. I just said "I think the comparisson is dumb" and from there you have speculated a lot about what I meant and my character when the original point was "I don't like this comparisson". Now I agree with your overall message of being against harassment but as I said, I just don't like the comparisson. And this is what I have been trying to say for the now tenth time I have had to reiterate this point. That is why your feelings towards Zet do not change the context. As the entire context of how I was disecting the message was simply, I do not like the comparisson.
@@Tsunul Honestly I don't really disagree with what you said regarding what you said here.
My major issue is that when you take out the context from my own tweet, people can come to the assumption that it was in defense of Zet, especially that's was what you said within the video. My concern came because its really not that hard to backtrack to find the tweet and get harassed by your community who won't read the entire tweet i wrote, take what you said and run with that as the main narrative. That's mainly why I used Dino Dave as a comparison. If the community has no problem discerning the difference between Dino Dave and Zet, at that point they'll find any reason to attack and harass someone they just generally disagree with.
The fact that comparison has to be made shows that this is a prevailing issue within the community.
When I say you should pay attention to the things you say to your community. It doesn't really have much to do with BA or anything like that. Its because fundamentally as a youtuber you have a name and a face to the community you're a part of. This sounds dumb but its alot different from being a faceless person on twitter (even though we're not anonymous).
There's been alot of communities I've seen where content creators try to not hold themselves accountable when drama like this happens because there's the expectation that they'll be held to the same standards that they held for other people and everyone else.
Besides I've seen some of your videos (usually at work for the length). I only really say these kinds of things because knowing how fandoms and communities are, the last thing you really want to be in is the receiving end of things when things turn upside. While you may have good intentions and want to open up a discussion regarding various communities and such, the way you portray them actually matters. Doing things the wrong way can bring real harm to someone, especially if they don't have the same platform like you do weither if its on youtube, twitch, etc. While you can have your own disagreements on certain things and I honestly can't really change your mind on your own opinions, trying to push that opinion on to other people leads into harassment and people misunderstanding and getting the wrong idea. In worse situations it leads into genuine misinformation spreading to the point that the misinfo is taken as fact. Which was how these whole series of videos were even made in the first place.
*That's the major reason why I had a problem with that section and why I offered up a discussion with you near the end of the twitter comment* Listen I don't have that much stake into PM Community social politics or whatever, I just kinda watch on my timeline and just move about my day. But naturally I would have a problem if some random fan decided to bother me because they couldn't read the entire tweet. Its not right to try to frame part of a whole tweet just to push an argument you want your community to see even if you disagree with it. It makes you no better than Zet (albit to a lesser scale because we're not talking about actual politics here) and it could've put me in real risk of harassment. You need to know about that in the future because these things do happen no matter how much you intended it or not.
Well that's just more of my thing. As long I got my thoughts across I'm more or less good enough here.
I just kinda want the drama done and over with so I can get on to reading Don's Chapter yeah?
i didnt even know there was anything going on
Honestly same, I was having fun drawing Gjinka MOSB over here
@@SSwhite2 oh hi sad little attention seeker troll
Same, I am just chilling with shipping Ishmael and Heathcliff and Angela and Lolland.
That and praising Ayin.
Man I just want to enjoy my funny bus/library/facility management game in peace, what do you mean there community is on fire?
G-chan pls no more drama videos after this. You are now sentenced to be a shitposter forever.
08:18 Peak Accent 🤣
32:05 Peak Ending
But seriously though, I hope you've been doing better after releasing this video. Some people will look at this and still twist your words to fit their narrative and their image of you. Regardless of that, we're here for you, yeah?
Also when are we gonna do Monster Hunter World with Dememenic and Foreman again huh??? Hit me up~
May this finally be the final page in this book so that we can rest.
“Do you love the city you live in”
The community is the city and you were Carmen someone who saw a way to end it
This implies we have a Ayin
@@ธนาเดชศุภนัทนพร good question who
cant wait for benjamin and angela
@@ธนาเดชศุภนัทนพร You should know EGOs are rarer than distortions, we just have to bide our time and will be rewarded
Absolute peak and i really think its sad that we need video to convince audience that the two arent beefing.
21:00 Bro uses Beholder music after telling me he hasn't even finished the game. G-Chan you're the reason I gate keep my favourite games lil bro 🙏
got neuron activation from this song
Wait, I know (and really like) the song but not the game, can someone tell me the title? I saw it through warhammer
@@Conte_Della_Malasorte It's called "Chained by One Chain" from the Beholder Short Film.
Banger Game and Banger Film
blocked
Dino Dave could genuinely hear some random piano note and be like "yooo is that the 547th note of Beethoven's 73rd Symphony"
I think people have already said all that there is to say and I'm glad that you took feedback to your initial video so well. Honestly, even though i'm not as worried as you may be, i do hope that this community will remain nice and non-toxic because this community has had a pretty positive impact on my life. Well, that being said I think we can probably all agree on one thing
We should probably normalise just having fun experiencing the games we all love
Hi Welvader. Glad to see you watched this vidya as well
I still think I won't be sticking around for long after my overall experience with the community. My vision of it is pretty clouded now. Do hope we can drop kick the possible future of PM being an example of having a terrible community.
But with a creator like you in this place. You might be able to set it on the right track again. Just enjoying the game for what it is and not get into stupid controversy too often.
Wish the best for your channel man.
This one time like 8 months ago, I saw two Jojo fans making out shirtless at the park and that was the gayest thing I'd ever seen until whatever the hell happened at 31:45.
I really like how you put this out. As much as I don't really like the community where its at rn, it's all I have. I'm just gonna continue making my dog water memes, and ignoring the fanbase. Wish u the best g-chan, don't get stressed dawg.
this video is cool. but this recipe is cooler:
*Chicken Ballotine with Herb Stuffing and Madeira Sauce*
Ingredients:
- *For the Chicken:*
- 1 whole chicken (deboned)
- Salt and pepper to taste
- *For the Herb Stuffing:*
- 1/2 cup breadcrumbs
- 1/4 cup chopped parsley
- 1/4 cup chopped thyme
- 1/4 cup chopped sage
- 2 cloves garlic (minced)
- 1 egg
- Salt and pepper to taste
- *For the Madeira Sauce:*
- 1 cup Madeira wine
- 1 cup chicken stock
- 2 tbsp butter
- 1 tbsp flour
Instructions:
1. *Prepare the Chicken:* Start by carefully deboning the chicken, keeping the skin intact. Season the inside and outside with salt and pepper.
2. *Make the Stuffing:* In a bowl, combine breadcrumbs, parsley, thyme, sage, garlic, egg, salt, and pepper. Mix well until the stuffing holds together.
3. *Stuff the Chicken:* Spread the stuffing evenly over the inside of the deboned chicken. Roll the chicken tightly, tucking in the edges to create a log shape.
4. *Tie and Sear the Chicken:* Use kitchen twine to tie the chicken securely in several places. Sear the chicken roll in a hot pan until the skin is golden brown all over.
5. *Roast the Chicken:* Transfer the seared chicken to a preheated oven at 350°F (175°C). Roast for 45-60 minutes, or until the internal temperature reaches 165°F (74°C).
6. *Prepare the Madeira Sauce:* While the chicken is roasting, make the sauce by melting butter in a pan, adding flour, and cooking to create a roux. Gradually whisk in the Madeira wine and chicken stock, cooking until the sauce thickens.
7. *Rest and Slice:* Once the chicken is cooked, let it rest for 10 minutes before slicing it into rounds. Remove the kitchen twine.
8. *Serve with Sauce:* Arrange the sliced chicken ballotine on a serving platter and drizzle with the Madeira sauce.
9. *Garnish:* Optionally, garnish with fresh herbs or serve with a side of roasted vegetables.
10. *Enjoy:* A beautifully presented dish that impresses with both its appearance and flavor.
Thanks man! Tho, I must admit, at first i read "Make the stuffing" as "Make the suffering", and immediately think what kind of Binah's guide is it😂
@@maybeliveisntthatbad7338 lmao
Limbus is a blessing and a curse. We have a Project Moon content creator renaissance but with the Gacha baggage and overall increasing popularity, the bad apples who have superiority complexes, brainrot, people who force others to adhere to specific standards or be called a racist or sexist, those people will join the community and already have. I won't say exactly that we need to weed out the bad apples but we need to overshadow the bad parts of the community. Spreading awareness of the bad apples will inevitably lead to harassment regardless of if you want it to happen or not and I find that quite sad since I personally believed that just unfollowing and not giving Zet the time of day after I initially found out what kind of person he is was enough. There's a spider-silk thin line between cancellation and spreading awareness of wrongdoing and any community has to get that balance right. It just so happens that Gacha and popularity invites people who don't know how to peacefully interact with the community. Or maybe that's just a generational issue.
I hope one day that we as a community can actually live in harmony without having to deal with controversy after controversy and actually manage to make the community welcoming. Great video G-Chan, I hope to see you playing more Hunting Horn in the future.
My very first time on Reddit was thanks to this game and, well, We all know that in Reddit overall there's less toxicity, but I was quite surprised about all of the posts at the Limbus Reddit and at TheOdysseyHadAPurpose:
- Good and funny memes.
- Quite impressive fanart.
- A lot of people being helpful to anyone with a question.
- Guides for practically anything, especially the hard stages.
- Fan IDs and comments giving positive and constructive feedback.
- Up to Date oficial info about the game.
- Well informed wikis (we don't talk about wiki fandom XD)
- Porn and horny posts still exists but I don't mind them due to usually having great art and the comment section reactions are the best XD
I have a great time there and I didn't knew about this toxicity situations until you and Tsunui talked about them and how, even if there are still sides on this topics, a bunch of people didn't seem to care about controversies and enjoy the game and, usually, invite newcomers to experience the story and gameplay.
So G-chan, the sentence here it isn't "There's still hope", because "We never run out of hope.".
I’m kinda in the same boat, though for me it’s how I didn’t know how we were perceived by (most likely some) of the other gacha communities, though then again I never really used much outside of RUclips and Reddit as well.
@Gchan69 Your proposed solution to protecting the community is to gatekeep toxic individuals. This approach is deeply flawed for two reasons.
First, parts of the community will inevitably make mistakes when deciding who to gatekeep. (Just look at how many people thought Zet was innocent due to your first video.)
Secondly, sometimes newcomers will only show their true colors after they’ve entered the community.
In either case you have toxic people and bigots in the community and gatekeeping has failed. Your proposed solution to dealing with these bigots is to ignore them and this will only cause harm in the long run. A bigot shouting their views with no one stopping them will attract other bigots and radicalize normal members of the community. As more bigots are drawn in and sensible people leave the community to avoid them, the community becomes dominated by bigots and their ideals.
The best way to keep a community healthy and respectful is to push back against toxicity and bigotry whenever it rears up. Obviously this should not be taken to the extremes of harassment and hate. It falls on the community to rein in their fellow members when they go too far.
TLDR: Pacifism and neutrality toward bigotry lets it spread like an infection. Fight back without becoming hateful.
I never said to just ignore them completely. Call them out in their BS without going in the extreme like you said. But ignore them in a way to not give their words power.
Also you said "The best way to keep a community healthy and respectful is to push back against toxicity and bigotry whenever it rears up. Obviously this should not be taken to the extremes of harassment and hate. It falls on the community to rein in their fellow members when they go too far."
This is like.....What I'm trying to say in the video.
I'll make this clear, I'll say harassers are bigots too which is why I said those people will push the fanbase over time. Which is why I'm also calling both of these issues out.
I'm gonna be honest. I've heard the words bigoted, ----phobic, prejudiced, racist, etc etc be thrown around so many times I've become numb to such accusations being labeled on people I have followed before. Now ZET's tweets and retweets on minorities are very... Heated to say the least I don't disagree there. What I'm trying to illustrate is that until I actually saw his posts I just went, "Another hate mob over a joke post." And left it at that.
Yea, can't blame you. I'm on the same boat as you for this one. Saw it so many times being thrown around it felt like it lost it's meaning
I agree with the gatekeeping part, if you want a perfect example look at Dungeons and Dragons and the absolute cinema going on there, or how warhammer fans are fighting to keep their lore accurate despite the agenda writers are trying to push. I will always welcome new people but the moment they bring toxic mindset trying to make a place all inclusive the product will change to facilitate a all inclusive group, which isn't bad when done correctly but generally it comes with massive retcons, poor execution, and the likes while alienating the original fan base.
Also calling a Filipino the Race word is funny, it's like calling the sky blue. (Joke much love from Davao)
Alright before i start talking about my opinion on this mess, i gotta say i LOVE how this video was made and what it's trying to accomplish (also the last part was peak).
Alright onto my opinion, it's mostly gonna be about the last minutes because i don't think i can say anything about the other things.
So about the community having a superiority complex, i feel like this is too sad to see. I absolutely love this community even tho i rarely interact with it personally, but everyone i've seen enjoying the game is always super nice and chill, you, tsunul, Esgoo, every PM youtuber are all likable in their own way (except Zet now). And i say this because i feel proud to be a part of this community, but these people are proud about them being part of us, while also downgrading other communities for no reason, i really hope the people that do this after seeing your video reflex upon their actions and so that they can improve individually, because if they do, they will improve the community at the same time, spreading positivity and making the community a great place to be in.
And for the negative experiences you've had, i relate to this a lot, even tho, as i have said, i don't interact too directly with the community, i've seen the bad side of it too much, and it made me question what the community really was. But then after watching Tsunul's video, and him doing a complete 180 and just telling everyone "would you really believe the majority of the community is like i have shown you?", it made me question myself a lot.
I genuinely just have seen too much of the bad part, that it blinded my good experiences and the good experiences i've seen in this community. I've seen people being so supportive and welcoming in this community, people that by enjoying the game's story have been able to even go through difficult times and improve themselves, and it really just made me realize, i love this community.
You can be proud of being in this community and enjoy the game more than other gachas that you dislike. I don't like Genshin Impact for example due to personal reasons, but this should not be an excuse to degrade someone else's game that they like and saying their community is garbage. Like in this video is said, do not hate, make love instead.
Anyways, i feel like this brought nothing new to the table and it's just me ranting and praising the community while also just sharing my personal experiences. I hope whoever reads this either way has a good day or night wherever you are. Make love, not war.
A visionary have told me this back when Genshin first win the award during goty:
- Genshin will defy the genre gacha game for all the future and beyond.
I though she was joking back then, telling her:
+ what, open world? that thing exist back with TLOZ in 1986 :D
She just simply smile and say:
- you will see :)
Welp now looking back, maybe we start to be genshin alike and it is not in the gameplay. Every community have bad people in it, they just need enough to form an army, a campaign
like the korean mindset that go and harass a people just because "she deserved it". But like you said in video, 1 people can't change the world but with enough people, even crit can go 1 shot the Blazing bull :D
Stellaris music in my project moon drama video? That's a surprise, but a welcome one.
People never learn since Jellybean incident around 2-3 years ago?
I mean that's the true dangerous nature of Dogpilling. I once Complain what's happening on her in Discord
Then someone just say "She deserve it"
I of course say "The fuck you mean she deserve it?"
Like fucking hell boy, you guys really like to say something that I don't want God to hear it.
In this case, the targeted person is indeed a bad person but it doesn't truly justify such a mass bullying. Have you seeing a thief when get caught the people suddenly beat him up mercilessly without thinking twice? Yes that's what I mean with.
Great to see this video is out, and i couldn't agree more G-chan.
I just hope everything gets better, last thing i want is to see the community that got me the majority of my friends burn.
Let us all remain together. Because just like the games teach us.
We have to strive to improve, and become the best that we can.
28:17: "How far are we willing to go in order to deplatform him?"
We dont even need to "deplatform" him actively, I feel.
as You said in 7:55, we should simply ignore him; thats the best you can do and soon enough they fade away in their own echo chamber.
on one Hand, yes - We should callout his bigotry in a constructive manner without going to far as the Email Story
but on the other Hand.. in the End and my Opinion; Zet/Video Creators generally only lowkey profit from the Hate under Videos as the Comments + Clicks boost Videos(?)
So i feel like a way to show an Influencer / Content Creator that he messed up big time is 'dont give the clicks / attention in any way', make the Videos perform badly and make em feel like they are talking to a brickwall and soon enough they maybe they realize the consequences of their actions.
Precisely what I thought as well.
lmao XD at them then block and move on and don't contribute anymore to their nonsense.
that last bit at 28:17 is pretty much just me talking to the community. For me, my mind was already made up on just lmao XDing him.
GuardianZET my beloved, standing against all the lgbtrash propaganda
PM Community is G-Over
yaoi wins in the end i am so proud of this comunity
lgbtrash propaganda will never win, gtfo
@@Siter being this worked up over a meme isn't healthy. You should go out more
@@yaboidamnationdaniel7646 tf you mean a meme 😭
I'm going to give my thoughts here as a new project moon fan
I got into project moon due to limbus. I played it during launch and it dragged me into the rabbit hole and made me end up playing the previous games.
I'm going to say it yeah toxicity has been happening and slowly rising in the project moon fandom.
Yeah i agree calling zet out for his actions were right but trying to harrass him is not right at all.
Hating on other gacha games is also very freaking wrong. I mean you can criticize the blue archive community and be creeped out by them. I should know since i distance myself from the community and is creeped out by them because of all the "jokes"
But just like i commented on those post just ignore them if you don't like it just ignore them unless they are doing something really bad.
But i've also had so much fun and enjoyment meeting a lot of new and really amazing people in the fandom. So many really amazing artist animators and some just amazing people.
And yeah we should foster a community that's full of love. I'm a moderator on a limbus company(though it's mostly pm fans) Facebook group and i try to tell people to be courteous and not harass other people. Though there are still some bad apples ( I still remember how some terrible people showed up when i uploaded a video of apr while saying to support it and even commenting horrible stuff. I tried talking to them and asking them to be civil but most weren't so I well banned them.)
But yeah there's good and bad in the community and I really hope the good outweigh and drown out the bad because i've become quite fond of it.
Also fellow Pilipino pog
Don't attribute the toxic traits of a community to everyone. This is why I operate on a person to person basis. You can be suspicious of them but if you consider it guilty until proven innocent that is a dangerous mentality to have.
24:34 You really should've covered that from the beginning... Regardless of whether people know or not, you're making content to inform. Kinda ruins the neutrality angle if you're leaving so much significant information out.
It's more of a I never really thought of putting it in cause really I just saw him as a bigot regardless of his schizo tweeting. So I just kinda lumped both of them together because I thought I really shouldn't have to explain to people why being a homophobe and a racist is a terrible thing.
Oh and of course, those tweets slipped my mind cause when I saw them.I Yawned, then I saw Ryoshu art that completely diverted my attention instead.
@@Gchan69 No offense, but you're not cut out for this type of content.
@@TSRL_ZZ I never wanted to cover these sort of content. Nor is it something I said I was good at.
For an entire year I only saw negativity from the community, thats why I made it.
I did mention it very briefly. But regardless. My message was that
Zet is a bigot. But that doesn't justify harassment
And if I included his racism? The message is still
Zet is a bigot. But that doesn't justify racism
Was it a mistake to not fully cover that part? Yes. Because somehow, even me directly calling him a POS and having a heart full of hatred. Some people still came to the conclusion that he was somehow innocent.
@@Gchan69I don't think we're on the same page. I'm just talking about the fact that people lacking knowledge on the situation will/already have stumbled upon your videos. You say you read what people were saying, but what did you think of all the "I didn't even know this was happening" comments sprinkled throughout? It was your job to give them the full picture and you didn't. You acknowledge this but I'm not sure you actually understand what this means for people from the outside looking in. Saying someone is a bad person or is a crackhead really doesn't illustrate the point at all, community drama the world over varies in severity and gets described in the same manner. For someone who is concerned with how other communities perceive them, you play into stereotypes that make groups like this look bad. Maybe that's what the playing dollies with nuggets bit was all about, wiping your hands of a situation you didn't really help with at all.
That said, I'm not a PM fan. I'm a friend of fans and hearing about this is genuinely disappointing to me. Bigotry is undoubtedly unwelcoming, but poorly researched and structured attempts at informing are just as damaging to fostering communities.
@@TSRL_ZZ Oh, I mean I already thought you would have acknowledged the part I said it's still a valid critique that I failed the entire part which I mentioned in the video. I only gave a lil more depth reason why it slipped my mind to convey the retweets properly
The reason I'm telling people to treat him like a local racist crackhead is because people care too much about goddamned online pressence. If that sort of behavior is taken into the real world. Everyone just laughs at him with amusement. Which is exactly what I thought when I saw his retweets. Why should I care if he thinks I'm subhuman? I've had more problems with my boss being racist towards me at my workplace because that shit actually hinders my livelihood.
I don't know how you also got that idea that I used to illustrate the nuggets as a way to "wipe my hands" Am I supposed to just take all the misinformation and accusations that I am a sympathizer? When even Tsunuls video had some parts that we're poorly presented and straight up got everything about my conclusion wrong. That part with the nuggets is to reinforce my thoughts and provide a solution as to how to deal with internet bigots. And also a way to tell people to stop caring so much about the online presence of an internet racist
Nautilus pompilius spoted in the video. (Music in 21:43 it's a cover by Анна Ефремова. The song is called Скованные одной цепью).
I am also glad that you made this respond and clarified the situation with other youtubers. Dialogue in this world is very important now, especially in these times
As a longtime viewer of your channel, a bi guy, and a PM player/fan since Ruina (was too young when Lob came out, and I’m bad at base management, so I just watched it growing up).
Thanks for filling me in on this situation-I typically avoid drama, so I wasn’t aware that was a thing that happened, and have now unsubscribed from Zet. Wasn’t aware he was homophobic, as I don’t use twitter and hadn’t watched much of his stuff.
Not sure if I qualify as a part of the ‘PM community’, as I’m just a RUclips viewer and game player who only engages on the discord side of things like once a year (just too busy, and have too many other interests)…but from my perspective I’ve also got a lot of hope for y’all. For every bit of drama I’ve avoided paying too much attention to, this community has heaps of fan art, fun discussions, gameplay walkthrough/guides, and fun events. I’m sure y’all will pull through and not become a ‘Genshin’ community. Much love to ya G-Chan, excited to see what content you make in the future
Queue Library of Ruina Theme02
23:00
No, compromise is reasonable. Most of Zet's points were spawned from looking at exclusively the worst among minorities. As long as people make it clear that they don't want to be associated with actual groomers/malefactors in their community, and maybe even pitch in raising awareness about them, then he may realize he can still be resentful but not of a greater whole.
Definitely. While yes, there are toxics that exist in those communities, it does not mean they represent the majority.
People on social media need to learn to block shitty people and move on from the situation.
Yeah this individual is terrible and it's good to bring that behavior to light, but after that it just sucks to keep seeing anything about them on the TL over and over again. Like what's the point in constantly bringing up how shitty the person is to followers who already agree they're shit and are just gonna be more miserable at seeing more of the trash they posted.
It reminds me too much of kiwifarms lolcow culture. It shouldn't matter how rancid the person in question is, constantly obsessing over what they do is bad FOR you and you are a better person for spending your time touching grass and enjoying life. Let people like zet stay miserable alone, its okay to move on.
i wish these types of dramas within the pm community never come again. because this is all just a massive stain
20:47 "shackled by same chain" as a background music got me by surprise
I love youtuber yaoi please upload more
Fucking based.IMO your first video on this topic wasn't the best, but this is a different story. I'm glad you learned about the brighter side of the community, because I had a very positive experience with it too. Just want to add: don't lose hope because of the toxic side of the community. There is always another side of the coin.(ha, get it?...coin...)
I'm blocking you permanently in this channel just for that coin joke
I'm so happy how this turned out. congrats king you cooked. may the future of the community become brighter with this as our reminder
these wing will fly higher than dream and stars
Quick note:
The second last section is the reason why I was annoyed when Tsunul said the PM community was fine and perfectly normal. I see people getting hate over the dumbest things and he acted like none of it existed. Hell, he even agrees that Blue Archive is for p***s and encouraged that behavior.
While I understand it's likely just because his feed is filled with art of Sinclair and regular PM behavior, but he is very clearly ignoring the side of the community that makes us look literally insane. (One person believed that cuties was on the same level as Blue Archive ffs).
I think Tsunul is aware of issues of PM community. I just don't think it was phrased well or to it's full context, but he did acknowledge people being jumpy with the vellmori situation. He just ended up summarizing it as typical internet behavior for any fandom. He's not wrong. But it did sorta downplay the issues with how it was presented. But I do believe me and Tsunul agree overall that doing dumb toxic shit in the internet is unacceptable behavior at the end of the day.
@@Gchan69 yeah he probably did not literally mean it is utterly fine, but when it's literally in a video calling out you for not representing something properly resulting in a misinterpretation... it's a bit of a misstep.
But I must clarify that I do believe that he doesn't believe the community is utterly without fault. He's not Don Quixote.
For my own mental health, I'm just not gonna touch any discord or twitter. Better to quietly enjoy a good story than have toxic, horrible vibes poison what I enjoy. And those vibes can come from ALL sides.
To people saying I need to 'help with the witchhunts'. You can take your mob elsewhere.
G-chan, for your own mental health as well, I completely agree that you avoid drama topics. No matter what.
A valid point, Mr. Shapiro. However...
1:30 Refuting doesn't mean having to take the bait. There were a lot of bad faith replies in that thread that were looking to get a rise out of her, that's not the kind of stuff you're supposed to refute.
1:58 She already knows Blender, it wasn't a learning process. I've looked at her twitter she's posted her Blender work months before the commission ever took place
3:19 Disagree because for the price that Zet paid, making a better model would have been an even bigger waste of time than it already was. Could I have gotten a better deweeding job done on my backyard garden than what I got paying somebody who's not used to it $20? Yeah but for $20 wtf am I supposed to complain about.
3:34 So if I get a like-new refrigerator from Facebook Marketplace for like $150 when the same model new goes for $800 and the instructions clearly tell me I'm supposed to plug it into the outlet, I have a right to be mad at the seller, because the fridge didn't plug itself into the outlet the moment I took it home? I have every right to discuss the problems with the product I received because I paid for it. It's unreasonable user error for something I got a $650 discount on but hey, I bought it I can complain about it right?
4:19 "He's a piece of shit but don't go after him lol" well you opened the floodgates yourself the moment you woke up and decided to upload a drama video about him, what kind of grandstanding is this..
7:20 You're so opposed to hate campaigns that you inadvertently started one with your last video, I get that it wasn't your intention but you should have had the consequences in mind before you hit the upload button.
10:04 Ok I just kinda felt the need to not mention these huge paragraphs that appear for a split second (I read all of them btw), but put that stuff in your script man, it looks unprofessional. Also some people listen to audio only just letting you know they're not gonna see these paragraphs while they're exercising or making dinner or something
11:45 You did manipulate information in favor of Zet by deliberately withholding information like his tweet history and all that. If you want to maintain a neutral stance you have to do your job and educate anybody who isn't in the know about why Zet sucks otherwise it looks like you're sweeping all of that under the rug
15:05 Did you or did you not fan the flames yourself, intentionally or not, by uploading that original video? If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.
15:35 Again please put stuff like this in your script
19:31 I feel like a high school teacher grading somebody's essay when I have to nitpick like this every so often. Put this in your script
20:09 Where screenshots? I could say I texted William Tell praising him for composing his Overture and he gave me a virtual pat on the back but nobody will take me at face value if I don't provide proof of the interaction
20:38 If you're a shartposter then please stay in your lane and don't do drama videos. Also the following slide has a paragraph, you know what I'm gonna say
22:46 I'm not gonna say it.
23:38 Yeah because your video didn't show the kinds of stuff Zet retweets, do you know how many comments you have here and on the original video that say something like "I didn't know this was happening" it's your duty as the person who brought it up to educate them properly on the situation and the previous video failed to do just that
24:06 If you mention it briefly but don't go in-depth then you're sweeping it under the rug
24:16 It's relevant because it's part of his general behaviour, even if it wasn't the focus it's still a relevant tidbit of information that helps illustrate the kind of character he is
24:33 So you admit that you half-assed it?
24:51 Script.
24:58 Script.
26:53
27:16 Yeah I agree that sucks
27:59
30:24 If we want to not get swept away in a tidal wave of controversy then it starts with good complete coverage of any controversial situations that arise, what we do from here on is dictated by clarity and a lack of misinformation about whatever happens
31:16 one last time to sign it off
>Say my video makes me look unprofessional because theres parts I don't say out loud
>Expects me to just leak my DMs with Zet
You only talk about professionalism when it's convient to you. You're not worth talking to.
@@Gchan69 You are absolutely unprofessional lol this nothingburger of a reply is proof of that.
Leaking implies that it was done without explicit consent from Zet. Of course ask him first. What, did Tsunul leak his DMs with Kerocola when he showed proof of interaction in his video? If you or Zet didn't want to show it the least you could have said was something about confidentiality but you didn't - so now you have this ambiguity where you claim to have contacted him but nothing is explicitly stopping you from showing proof of it
And yes, the parts of this video that have unspoken paragraphs imply you came up with these points AFTER recording and sometime during editing, and rather than record these new lines, you decide to half-ass it by only getting half of your point across, that's being textbook unprofessional at its finest
Lord almighty you are as dumb as they say. Good riddance that you'll be out of my notifications, I try helping and you immediately jump at my throat. Absolute neanderthal behavior lol.
@@Gchan69 It's funny how you just assumed you would be doing right by everybody by making this video only to repeat several of your mistakes and learn basically nothing from the first video, honestly the only way to salvage this now is just deleting both videos and never sticking your nose into drama content again
@@Gchan69 So your first response to what seems to be genuine critique, written by somebody who ostensibly watched the video judging by their wide berth of notes replete with timestamps, is to laser focus on one point that they made whilst ignoring everything else, misinterpret said point, and lash out at them? What a failure you are. If this is the way you're going to act, never upload another video again.
@@Gchan69 Your every response under this video shows that you learned nothing, all this is just a repeat of your original video, just putting a new spin on it as if you have "learned" anything. Stick to memes.
(unfortunately some people stop watching very early on soo)
TL;DR:
Zet was someone who was not nice (im putting it VERY lightly here) and G-chan is NOT defending him.
Harrassment is bad, PERIOD.
It is not good and does not help whatsoever, even if its done to an asshole (Zet). What does it lead to? S*icide, Doxxing, etc. You know what it leads to even if theres a very low chance of it happening.
Due to these recent events, some people have likened PM community to the toxic traits of the Genshin community, but good news: we can circumvent this.
The more hateful stuff there is, the less good stuff that everyone else can enjoy. (Most of the points are explained in detail in the video, so go and watch it)
i'm going to be honest, seeing Nuggets with shiny anime eyes being racist should not make me laugh this much, it just so silly
Edit: got to the end of the video and honestly I need to give my own grain of sand to this conversation
I been a fan of Project Moon since a year and a half by now, got into it when a Streamer I like started playing the games and friends convice me to play it, and I love it so much, sometimes I fell that the games were made for me, they world building, they story, how they focus so much on personal grow and maturity in this hellscape that they call City, love Project Moon games so much, and they bring such a joy to my life
yet I dont consider myself part of the fandom anymore, as other people I also got to see the bad side of the comunity, also got to see the harrasment that happen on discord, the discussion, the insults to new people for not undestanding stuff, how beliving anything else that is not the norm would get you ignored
the funny part, is that all of that come out of people similar to Zet's, people that dont think of they own human beings as brothers, but as less that dirt, and I got to see how slowly but surely, the entire comunity I was part of fell into it, every day the hate became more, small jokes became big discussions, racism stoped being called out, rules where not enforced, and the place I once called home became almost otherwordly, it was like seeing a monster out of something I loved, and I fell so sick, pretty much everyone knew that it was fuck up, and a nest for people with lots of horrible ideas about the world and other people, and it did not start like that, it started like one of the most comfortable places that I have been, as someone that was on horrible fandoms, being on one that made me fell so comfortable with being myself was such a new experience, yet it will never be the same
if you give them a meter, they will take a kilometer
and as someone that as always been triying to be the most friendly person in this world, that has made friends with almost everyone, that was cared for so much for both lgbt people, and people that hated lgbt, as someone that as seen people change they ways, mature and stop hating so much, I have seen literaly nazi's change they thinking to the point they are the thing they once hated, I dont think ignoring thing is the solution, we need to call them out, we need to make them responsible for they action, is true that everyone has it own story, of why they are like they are, but hate will not stop until it consumes everything, if its not, it will end up being the new rule
they are humans, and have the same right as everyone else to be loved and love, but not because of that we need to let them have they way, because if they do, they will take everything else with them too.
Yeah it was freaking hilarious
That came out of the left field
But also amazing message
I personally disagree with the point on gatekeeping. I think it should be acknowledged that the community originated on four chan and people like ZET were founding members of it.
Really late reply cause been busy recently and I didnt expect to still receive comments on this vid
I mean I never really said we should completely disregard Zets history. I do think I should have explained more in the video Zet did have a lot of impact on the community way back then. He formed a lotta collabs and connected a bunch of the OG PMtubers back then and just generally spread a lot of positivity during that time and I'm not going to just throw that history down in the gutter.
That's why it's really dishesrtening to see him go towards this route. I can't support his overall views anymore nor am I going to collab with him again. But I will not downplay the positive influences he had back then.
@Gchan69 I understand and respect that entirely. But I do think the idea of ignoring him ends generally poorly. I do think the initial hate mob and harassment campaign had to happen. If he was softly let out of the community, it would have been a signal.. I feel there's a saying that if you let one N*zi into a bar, it becomes an N*zi bar. But I believe it is additionally true that if you let someone off easy. Others will think they will get it away with it and try to insert themselves into the community. Ignoring that old uncle only works because he's the only one in the family who believes those things.
While I'm against harassment in most situations, I understand that sometimes decisive action must be made. Which is mostly from personal experience watching communities become slowly unsafe for minorities like myself online. I don't agree with the signing up his work email for porn sites. But I'm not against the hate mob on Twitter.
bongbong belongs to greentexters
Beautiful... peak.
Somehow I've watched the whole video more thinking about stellaris rather than the zet situation
I don't blame you. It's a great game
I just played 10 hours straight of ONE game of multiplayer yesterday. Managed to defeat one of the awakened empires with my brother... but holy shit does the ALL Crisis option hits hard. Unbidden then Scourge next? How fucked up am I?
oh no i think the blue archive thing is like gatekeeping since blue archive players have this uh, image of being weirdos.
(I personally absolutely hate blue archive players since they called Don Quixote a "l*li baba" and thought that was fucking disgusting.)
I don't exactly condone a hate campaign but... i do understand the sentiment behind people who wish to completely gatekeep its existance.
Also a large amount of BA fans I have seen are very like Zet in his “beliefs” so I can understand on why the PM fandom would want to gatekeep them out
Both fandoms gatekeep hard, but they are an uneasy "alliance" because of how PM brainrot evolved, people who gatekeep BA players away more likely than not hate the meme of seeing Loland on any black haired man wearing a suit
Source: I stalk my enemies
@@thischannelisajoke6810you sure a large amount? If that is large, then wow the PM community is the size of the Eurasian continent.
Treat them like a racist crackhead at 711. They are simply... IRRELEVANT.
I wish people would stop magnifying the toxic minority. It's like an ant that you willingly place in your skin and when bites, you vehemently complain about it. You can just simply step on it and pass on.
As someone who's been paying attention when Gchan dmed about this whole situation. It makes me feel very sad.
I left the active part of the community because I saw how rabbid the community got in such a short amount of time.
Tbh the community is so disgusting I ended up joining blue archive because despite all the gross people, at least no one is pretending they're good people when they go out to harass people... i guess?
The doomer part of me thinks that PM is fucked as so long this type of behavior is accepted by larger figureheads in the community and isnt properly called out when it should be.
No, harassment isnt justified at all. Block them and isolate them, but dont leave excessive hate comments thinking they'll leave the internet or kermit. Thats very immature and Im sure many people would be quicker to absolve themselves from responsibility than hold themselves accountable.
Anyway, gchan instead of using ryn as a sona, maybe just use yourself in the maid outfit to differentiate between the two. Okay thanks.
i loved the commision part
I mean that's like the best part of the video
Nah this comunity is cooked
It has always been cooked since the very first day
Watching through this, all I can even say anymore is just “why?”
I want things to get better, I really do, I still have some hope that things will get better, that things can change for the better.
But unfortunately, I alone can’t change the direction of the community, I can’t change the tide, I don’t even know what to do anymore honestly. And looking at how we are viewed by other communities kind of stings in a way, since my first exposure was welcoming too, like most others, but seeing this just kinda feels a bit… dire.
I still have hope things can change, heck I still have hope that, by some miracle, how we’re seen can change too, ironically I didn’t even know that how we were viewed changed until I watched this very video, but it still stings a lot to hear since I loved the arknights x limbus content, sad to see that bridge might have been burned.
But again, bridges can still be rebuilt, honestly with what little advice I can give: we gotta tone it down. Way down. You can call out others yes but not to the degree of what we’ve been doing, there is a point where too far is too far. I doubt many will see this, I doubt many will even agree with me here. But honestly all i can really do is hope, at least that’s how it feels sometimes. We gotta actually follow the advice of what the games are trying to tell us. There’s still hope for change but we gotta actually start DOING something about it.
That’s all I can write right now, ‘cause I dunno what else to say anymore. Even with all the positive things that happened, I don’t want this community to become a cancer.
This is what I call Qliphoth Meltdown ~
fast and furious part 5, I wonder if they will release part 42
Even if this video has it's share points
At some point again drama will arise and split the community apart again
It's not about make love, not war
It's facing the fears, building the future.
No matter how many choices it made, there's gonna be a road less taken to follow through.
As always
If you're feeling a bit frustrated over PM drama, play comfort games or Play Warframe
As always G-chan, take care and focus onto your mental health.
" Vashtav, mara lohk."
It's pretty much what I was saying in my conclusion. That hopefully we reached a proper conclusion from here that the community can move forward and learn from it's mistakes.
The make love not war part is to demonstrate me and Tsunul settling our differences. We have conflicting views and opinions but rather than bickering over stupid internet issues. We came to a common ground. Had we just fought over this nonsense it would have just fractured the community further.
From here. I just hope people learn to settle their differences with one another and just enjoy the game for what it is.
@@Gchan69
Well Unfortunately, you can't change people minds, they will fight and bicker over things and it's just part of how we lived today
It's not about the game, it's about who's gonna win this pointless arguments
You, Tsunul, I, and Everyone are flawed human beings, can't control our emotions or decisions, all we did was to add fuel to the countless Drama and arguments.
Guess my take on this video is : It's not about love or war, it's about winning this pointless war, no matter what the controversial takes it has.
@@Gchan69
Right but in the End, Like i said in my comment, i don't delve into drama too much but it's for the better that the community should gatekeep their own series and not blend into one another
Sometimes, i feel that we need a month to just remove ourself from social media for once and learn how to be human again
Hell, maybe a month is too little, just spend as much time off social media instead
I agree. Some people are basically distorting by caring too much of toxic minorities, they are eventually turning into the ones they hate...
How much enkephalin boxes do these guys produce to make it worth the toxicity? I bet it's only 3
30:05
Wait seven sinners
How?
MD2 pretty sure.
@@yonatanalyagon5065 oh yeah forgot about that
stellaris ost
What can I say. I love Stellaris
Tsunul Harem Is Real
the best conclusion is, solo guys are goats they just play the game, also what happened with kully?
Clear all Erlking Heathcliff solos
Wow, yknow, its like terminally online people should touch grass instead of wasting their time bullying people. In the words of civvie11, "twitter was never good."
On top of that, i dont think its just the story pmoon "elitists" are bullying and gatekeeping over. Its the attitude they take towards anyone having a problem getting through a difficult segment of any of the games, responding with the same cadence and prose as the people that made the dark souls community look bad: "fuk u, git gud lol" with an added "just read the mechanics fuckface".
Also g-chan, i think its time for your "reject drama, return to shitpost" arc.
There are people who arn't sticking with Project Moon for the story?
Why?
I am confused by that. The story, art, and concepts are the only reason I followed it into a gacha game.
another beautiful day of not participating in communities twitter or discord 🙏
20:28 oh ? Now I'm curious 😮
zet is a dbag and the rest of the video explains perfectly why, but I honestly really do not see anything wrong with the vtuber model fiasco even the 'public lambasting', they were both unprofessional, and including a small thing like that in the video only dilutes the message I feel like. Kinda like 'Biggie was fat' iykyk
zet is the only hero standing against all the lgbtrash propaganda in PM community
While I do agree with your overall argument. but the quality of your first video is quite questionable to say the least and it has mangled the point hard.
te sere sincero papi porque yo te veo desde el inicio esto es algo que pasara tarde o temprano xd la gente tiende a ser muy emocional y tratar de no balancear con la logica es una guerra perdida jaja pero welp se que ignorar el problema no ayudara pero es mejor solo estar con un pequeño grupo que esta bien con todo mientras no tepases de gil xd a que estar con muchagente que se arda por todo
Truly an Ideal ending.
I have a question about your example im 9:20, what is exactly toxic about it? I'm genuinely asking. I don't see it as being toxic but rather just an opportunity for the artist to learn how to draw the characters properly, and darker skin tones in general, which yes are more complex to draw. In my opinion it depends how you convey the message because it CAN be toxic, but I don't think it's always toxic
I mean I never said it's always toxic. I'm not gonna label people who give constructive advice to draw dark skin colors better as toxic
I'm refering to those that attack the artist for not drawing them dark enough or some dumb shit. Which is the case I see 90% of the time.
@@Gchan69 Personally I have never seen anyone harassed or even attacked, simply constructive criticism, but I don't doubt people attack them.
So uhh, more funny memes then?
Yes Rico, more funny videos.
There's really no denying that once limbus got popular with twitter crowd, the community underwent big changes. Suddenly one day people labeled pm work queer and actively propagate those ideals, while one of the appeals of the PM games was the fact that they never touched the subject. The whole zet situation is the example of how harmful this mob mentality is.
I don't care if he actually is shitty person or not. Most likely his reaction is the result of overload of queer propaganda in modern days. Even the mentioned vtuber was nothing but a zealot providing queer "examples" on the level of: two characters care for each other, help each other and value each other, but the same gender, yeah, they definitely bang. Oh, the character is androgynous? Wow, this is so groundbreaking and modern.
All I want to say is that the main message is correct, hate creates hate, so let's not start any wars. But as long as there are radicals on one side, there would always be radicals on the other. The only difference is that now those radicals try to depllotform already a niche creator who was mostly just having fun with the games that he likes. Not to mention the impact Zet had on pm community in the early days, back when all those modern slop creators were not even aware of PM works.
Good points, but they will never reach G's mind. He's just a dirty invader that doesn't care if real life people get killed or groomed, because he defends the other races and the LGVT rainbow mafia. He's worse than Zet, because Zet only wanted to fight the diversity cult and make awareness of how sick and disgusting those "poor minorities" are.
He will not respond you, heck, I assure you he's laughing in his inmigrant cave at the very moment he sees your comment
It's funny because PM games have good LGBT rep. And even better, they don't preach it like it's heaven-sent scripture. It's simply SSR tier storytelling, and they are added spices that people enjoy in their PM dish, nothing more.
I just hope people stop distorting... there's enough already swarming in the Limbus dungeons.
@@jayzenstyle Can you tell when did PM make LGBT characters or representation? I played all the games, but I never saw any of that. Are you sure you aren't hallucinating?
oh my god who cares
"Dont bully every one" While you condemn zed just to appease your political allies without giving him a chance to explain where his point comes from
Cancel colture 101
telling someone that they are a bad person and isolating them from any possibility of growth and listening to them, what a hypocrite you are
Look back at 20:01
I gave him a chance to speak. We spoke fully in our DMs and I even said his issues are something that can be tackled and addressed with. But that area goes into politics at that point and it's an area that I'm no longer willing or comfortable to step into that area
Another thing I'm adding on. because you said "telling someone that they are a bad person and isolating them from any possibility of growth and listening to them"
There's a lot of times creators especially like arcangela tried to pull him out of the path he was taking. There's a time where he just lost his shit and the other creators tried to contact him to ask him what was wrong only for them to be ghosted. And at that point, just wasn't interested with having his views challenged anymore.
I see what you're trying to say, but it doesn't change the way the subject was treated, Zen wan't made "a Racist crackhead" but more like a folk devil, and the part of "arcangela tried to pull him out of the path he was taking" makes me realy think of a cult like behaviour. which doesn't surprise me that Zen has decided to isolate himself, especially after the various experiences of people who have gone against him, and the various videos that have been made about him.
I agree with what you say about the community, but still embellishing the whole speech with: "he is a piece of shit", "a cunt", or even "a Racist crackhead" doesn't help much on your topic. people will see the negative and always look for drama, even though I was a bit of a jerk in the way I wrote the comment, I still stand by my opinion that Zen has been treated unfairly by everyone, including you.
@@mattia300299 Let me write the timeline how this went down
Zet had ghosted and burned bridges with a lot of other creators back before the bong bong incident even occured. During that time. A handful of creators contacted him during this time (for this case it's only the OG members that contacted him like arcangela, dino dave) So I think it's worth noting that a handful of creators had tried to reach out to him before any of the shitfest of his tweets even happened. They didn't get a respond back which is why I believe it's Zets decision to ultimately isolate himself before any of this even happened.
And lasty, for my video. I was the creator who humanized him the most. I was the only one that ever said that despite his schizo posting, the issues he is facing is 100% real. The only reason I didn't give him inch for his belief is because it is absolutely extreme to the point it has become guilty until proven innocent. And at that point There is no longer comprimise to give.
But to this day I still wish he turns back on his radical beliefs. I'm not going to undermine his achivements. He made waves of influence during the LOR days of PM. He reached out to a lot of creators for collabs and he spread A LOT of positivity in the community during this time
That's why its so absolutely heart breaking to see him take this path and even see him mistreat people
I really wish I can help him, but hes gotta help himself first.
@@Gchan69there is nothing wrong with his beliefs, he's standing against the lgbtrash propaganda
bruh
project moon becoming popular was a mistake
the community was at its peak when the only people who played the games where some nerds in a /v/ thread
Zet was right tho just look at Chris lol
Look at Dr. Disrespect, and like the 100 other cis pedos
the video is good but aaaa one problem, both the LGBT community and extremists bigots are at the same line but different ideology, when I explained on a neutral text with facts from online, got verbally insulted and even the vtuber you mentioned, she also joined to act like some LGBT zealot, and the zealot is the problem, people
have became pure zealots for there ideals that they never accept anything but what they want, same when I commented as in what zen did was wrong as why attack some that didn't do anything to you but also explained why tho there's hate and people supporting zen as you can see online on what happens with LGBT people being zealots and even trying to replace men and women and even saying mothers day is a threat to there existence like what? it's basically when you have a zealot group that would do anything to be on top, and when you have one zealot group... you have 100 more, you have the woke mob, the red necks, the 3 k's group, those are examples out of the thousands, plus there's the other case about a lot of PDFiles going under the protection of the LGBT community, like if you don't watch your community and let bad actors go in, that's on your community, like you have people in even in Thailand having lady boys that are more respected and funny thing that the LGBT community are somewhat in war with them... like what? friendly fire or something? like you can't make this up, and when you point out why you are getting disgusting hate with online proof, you get attack, and that goes for both sides
Why LBTQ is a community? I thought it's like a life choice lol
@@bullet3417 it is a community as that what they refer to themselfs always, that's why
@@maxwellboop everyone tries to treat it as "The LGBT Community" but tbh its basically impossible to make a coherent community out of a trait that doesn't determine anything else about yourself
if anything, there are a bunch of smaller "LGBT communities" (or, communities that are focused around being LGBT) and some of them are an absolute nightmare, but others are actually really chill
...ironically, the nightmare ones are really bad _especially_ if youre LGBT yourself, due to Reasons (no being LGBT doesn't make you safe . its actually the exact opposite)
it creates this really Weird situation where its like . people from the outside look in (to the nightmare communities) and go "wow this is terrible, are all lgbt people like this"
but they dont even realize its exactly the same on the inside (makes sense, since they probably havent seen it from the inside), its just kinda bad for everyone and a lot of lgbt people hate the worst parts of it too