Bell Notes - The Selmer Mark VI, Bombs & Church Bells
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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Filmed & Directed by Randy Cole
Al McLean - Narration & Saxophones
Filmed on April 8, 2011 in Montreal
In this installment of Jazz, Period. Montreal Jazz saxophonist Al McLean takes up a trio of vintage Selmer saxophones in a haunting, impromptu performance. McLean reflects on the rumor and mystique surrounding the celebrated instrument, and shares its compelling story. The film culminates in an unplanned duet.
Manufactured in the heyday of Jazz, the Selmer Mark VI is arguably the finest and most loved woodwind ever made. The 'Stradivarius' of saxes, it represent the perfect overlap between old-world craftsmanship and modern design.
Beyond the tangible, however, the Mark VI strikes an even deeper emotional chord, with romantic notions still swirling unabated about it. Played by legendary Jazz artists - Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, Stan Getz - the origin of this horn is still a topic of hot debate.
Some say the French brass of the Mark VI is made from high grade armament casings, recuperated after WWII. Some of those casings, in turn, would have been made from the over 9,000 Church bells confiscated and smelted by the Nazi Wirtschaftsministerium (Ministry of Economics) during the war, to feed Germany's drive for armament production.
Thus, we have the enchanting allure of church bells' improbable legacy living on within a celebrated Jazz saxophone; a mournful, yet soulful metaphor of destruction and rebirth, which somehow seems to echo the experience of Jazz's progenitors.
Can we hear the peal of church bells in a cascading Al McLean solo? Listen closely, and you can decide.
Click here for a relevant article from the Canadian Journal of History, 2008:
findarticles.co...
Thanks for listening!
Tenor- Otto Link HR 9/ Rico 4/ old (1917) gold plate Conn 2-screw ligature
Alto- Selmer Super Session F/ Rico 3/ old 1930's King 3-band ligature
Soprano- Selmer C*/ Rico 3.5 clarinet reed/ stock Selmer ligature
This video is awesome. This a tale. This is the type of magic that should continue to be told and played.
Wow you guys, these videos just keep getting better and better. And this one featuring Al getting all spiritual and everything... :)
Thanks for the great work. I really enjoyed this.
I don't understand the comments of the people, all they comment "is not true!" but you say that is a RUMOR and that there are a lot of history about this... they just don´t listen...
YES you can love a lot of sax all over the world... but anyone can't denied that SELMER has a beautiful sound and the Mark VI is a great example of that.
Great video Randy!
I must have listen to your video Al for many years,still ,,i love it!
Just such a great video..
All the best
Mario
I think that this video best demonstrates the light, creamy, dynamic sound of Mark VI. This is the ultimate grail tone & feel from the timeless sax. Bravo!
Holly sound! Someday i'll get such great alto!
great video
@TenorSax123
I now play a Mauriat and it sounds much closer to my Chu Berry Conn then a VI. My problem with the VI is that the only one I like are over 10000$ in the states. I got my Mauriat for much cheaper, it got the sound of a vintage horn with the technic of a modern one.
I'm an 8th grader and I want one of these sooooo much!!!
nice playing...looks like my old mark vi (1972).. Im sorry i sold it..was using a small mouthpiece would love to hear it on the piece im blowing now....yes those old horns were greaty...at least one good thing came out of that war
simply wonderfull!
Milandro, the material absolutely affects tone quality, response, and intonation in a saxophone, similarly as it does in a percussion instrument. A saxophone made from solid copper for example, will indeed sound like a saxophone, but will be more suited as a decorative piece than a competitor to a classic Selmer, shell-casing folklore or not.
“‘The proportions cause and determine the nature of an instrument; not its shape, nor the material it is built of. The sound qualities depend on the proportions, which differ from on instrument to another, and distinguish a horn from a trumpet, and a bugle from a saxophone’.
More than this theoretical discovery, and still more than the invention of this or that instrument, the grouping of brass instruments into homogenous ‘families’ as he calls them, remains Sax’s greatest title to immortality.” - Leon Kotchnitzky, from his book Adolphe Sax and His Saxophone (Begian Government Information Center. New York, 1949.)
Monik Nordine the alloy actually influences a lot the tone of an instrument. some alloys are more dense than others.
Monik Nordine That argument is fallacy-laden. Yes, the bore shape affects the sound profoundly, but it's not the only factor. The theory focuses on about 10% of the sonic energy within the horn that gets emitted as sound, not the 90% that works on the instrument walls. The dynamic response of the instrument wall to that 90% of the energy is highly significant to the sound. A plastic saxophone still sounds like a saxophone, but a gutteral, reedy, and harsh one compared to a brass one.
Thanks Troy,
That's a King ligature from the 30's. It's the only one I have, but they pop up on Ebay from time to time listed as 'three-band' ligature and such.. Thanks for the comments and interest!
I have heard the shell story before, but let's face it, the playing here is exquisite . I have played Mark V1s for 40 years (sop alto and tenor) and even though all the new horns are technically perfect they don't have the same sound. I think he might be on to something here. Just my two cents worth but cool concept and great playing .
The sound is in your head & heart and not completely in the horn, a beginner will sound crap on a MK VI ! he won´t sound awesome because it´s a Selmer MK VI, and Bob Mintzer will sound awesome on a Jupiter :-) that´s fact but the hype goes on and there will always be people prepared to pay $7000 dollars for a really old selmer Tnr Sax :-)
The Horn doesn't make the player, the player makes the player
Love this video. Gorgeous tones on the saxophones and great acoustics. TY for posting this.
Fantastic video.
Mario from Canada
I´ve had a bunch of MK VI saxophones over the years, well Soprano, Alto and Tnr anyway, I only ever had one really good Tnr and I foolishly sold it because a guy offered me so much money, and I mean a lot of money, it was impossible to say no, but that´s how some people feel about Selmer, strange isn´t it? All these amusing stories and myths about brass and the hype that goes with Selmer, you can only shake your head. If people like John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins and all the other big names had played "Jupiter" horns then they would be the most expensive horns on the second hand market today. MK VI sopranos have real intonation issues and in my opinion are not worth touching at all.
Here´s the question, if you go to a Bob Mintzer gig, and he plays a Jupiter Tnr, how do you think it will sound?
Answer: awesome ! enough said.
Can confirm about the soprano because I play my high school's mark vi soprano and the intonation is garbage.
From Wikipedia:
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive... ...However, since "bronze" is a somewhat imprecise term, and historical pieces have variable compositions, in particular with an unclear boundary with brass, modern museum and scholarly descriptions of older objects increasingly use the more cautious and inclusive term "copper alloy" instead.
Hi Debb,
In response to your other question, I'm not sure if the metal stock changed. I presume it did throughout the years, yes. I can't say for sure how though. The more I learn (and I'm learning a ton these days being involved with the Rollins sax design), the more I understand that things like bore dimension, shape, finish and neck design are hugely important. I think Selmer kept tweeking their design, perhaps with sonic goals that turned out to be an aesthetic dead-end.
@stevierayDOM18
Hi, yes, it's a vintage instrument. Luckily, there are many out there, Selmer made them well into the 1970's. The later ones are more realistically priced in comparison to the general market for pro horns. They made the Mark VI soprano for quite a few more years as well. Good luck,
Randy
@TenorSax123 That's impossible to say because there's so much variability in MkVIs. Walstein (Chinese) is based on Yanagisawa. The others probably match the sound of some MkVIs, . The Barones and Mauriats are similar to each other and are often compared favorably to the MkVI.
That's good to know about the Mauriat. Which model? A modern horn with a Chu type sound could float my boat. Most modern "vintage" models get compared to either a ladybell Conn or a VI.
God, good
What are those songs and what setups do you play on. You sound amazing and smoky-a sound ive been trying to get for years. please tell thanks
By the looks of the engraving, the one (tenor) he is playing here is '65 or newer. That said, even if late Super Actions and early VI's had this metal, wouldn't Selmer have run out of the metal by then?
ok Im sold..please send it my way (asap!)
Anyone know the pieces played here or is it just improv?
Lovely video, Please what's scale is this.??? You use to improvise. Thanks a bunch
AsianCanadianKid Too late to answer, but that is a place to put a neck microphone, was popular in the 70s. Here, it is closed.
And this is weird i just noticed his soprano reed is huge. Maybe a reason why his first two performances are way better than the third.
Al
Yhanks fro the reply.
Are you with EB HR Link on this video on (tenor)
Sounds,,just GREAT..
Regards
Mario
I will be honest, you can practice all you want on a yamaha or a yanagisawa(which are good horns) and sound very proffesional, but you just wont sound as you would on a really good vi.(His alto is really good) it is just a different sound that you can get. You can hear the difference between them and it's just a preference between whether you want to search for a really good vi and pay 8k or a yamaha82z that may lack that great vintage tone but still is a fine horn.
Thanks for a great video. The many hours i'll bet you spend working on tonequality really comes to evidence in this videos, and the saxes are just amazing. I would give my right leg to own a Soprano Selmer Mark VI. I've tried a couple of mark VI tenors, and the difference between them and my current SA2 is remarkable. Such a beautifull instrument.
Best regards from DK
btw. should you in any way be related to Jackie McLean?
You are right, i love my Alto SA 80, but my Tenor Mk 7, from 1980 its from another world, very good, solid and especial, . and not so expensive like the Mk 6..dont need to sell my leg ...
Mine is a 66 RUL so a Mauriat, unlackered with rolled ton holes. How can you ask better then a sax that vibrates like crazy with rolled tone holes?
Love it.
Great video -- can you post the serial # and mouthpiece / reed / lig combos you're using in this video?
Bell bronze and brass are quite distinct. Bell bronze is too brittle to make shell casings or wind instruments out of.
Jerome Selmer has stated that the Mk VI was made from the same ubiquitous 70%Cu/30%Zn brass stock that was the industry standard. That particular composition is referred to as "cartridge brass," which feeds the shell casing myth. But it's what the vast majority of other saxophones are made of.
Thank you for the great video and impeccable playing, could you tell me which ligature you are using on your alto?
Anyone know the song he's playing on the tenor? id like to learn it.
Which mouthpiece he played at the beginning of the video? It sounds amazing.
@wideangleman I hava a question. I am a student who hopes to get a selmer for high school and I wanted to know if they still make the selmer mark 6. Is only a vintage instrument?
@Dominic salzillo they are only vintage at least the best ones are they still make me but not as wonderful as the vintage saxs
May i ask which tenor and alto mouthpiece you are using?
This video is so inspiring, thank you.
Interesting story, I'm convinced that there is a GLORY on the Mark 6 selmer Saxophone now that I understand this story. I thank GOD that I own one. CHURCH BELLS ARE MADE FROM BRONZE, watch this, Revelation 1:15
His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
how does these saxes compare to modern saxes?
What is the name of the tune played on tenor in the beginning?
Come on Al :).....you know Dexter's best work was on a 10M....his work on a Selmer sounded nothing like his work on a 10M. Nice video man!!
It's the best Alto and Tenor sax ever made. But the best soprano sax ever made was the Yss-62
Did ypu ever play on a Soprano Selmer SA 80 ?
the alto mouthpiece looks like a selmer soloist
What mouthpiece/Ligature does Mr.McLean play on?
There is so much nonsense here I don't know where to start. I have spoken to Jerome Selmer several times and everything you said is a myth. They never used shell casings or church bells. The brass for shell casings is not fit for an instrument. They do not have the same metal content of church bells. The Mark VI came out 9 years after the end of WWII. You just made this shit up. Personally, my Conn 6M sounds better, but tone is subjective anyway. You do have a nice sound, but I've heard just as nice sounds on other saxophones. BTW, Dexter Gordon preferred Conn 10M's, but only switched to a Mark VI after his Conn was stolen in Paris.
Exactly! Selmer never made horns out of bomb castings. He heard this from the internet. He probably does not even own a good MRK6 anyway...
This is more of a marketing video for his *playing,* rather than his acumen of history. Anyone with a cellphone and google will quickly debunk the shell casing story, but his playing is nice. Thank you for your Selmer anecdote.
What's that thing on the Tenor neck?
4:06 dat pattern though
I prefer 4:27 to 4:43
What kind of mouthpiece are you using? Model?
The player makes the player, but why not amplify that with an instrument. An extension of the player. Should have the best one to most accurately project YOU.
It'd be interesting if someone had the time to test the theory... maybe use a spectrograph. :-).
It isn't true. It's been debunked over and over. The VI is a good horn. Some are great. When you spend years looking for the right one sure, you're bound to find a great one. I spent hours at the Yamaha factory selecting my 875. Guess what? I found a great one. I've had several offers to trade straight up for 50s vintage VI's. No way.
You got that right Andy !
So... you don't like it because not talking about the Yamaha sax? are you a child? yes the yamaha is a good saxophone but doesn't sound like a vintage...
I love this video man! The Mk Vi truly was the best. I have a Reference 54 Flamingo which is in my opinion, the closest thing to it. I absolutely love both horn models but decided to go with getting a Reference because it had that "new feel" you know? Kinda like a rebirth of the Vi I guess:) Again, Great video!
The closest thing to a Mk6, is a Mk7..
That guy is so dramatic lol.. I've played on a selmer vi and a etude student sax and I feel no difference. After you find your setup you can play on any horn. I been playing for 20 years
Sorry!... The Mark VI was never made from brass or bronze shell casings.THIS IS A MYTH.
A very common and very mis-understood myth. Sometimes brass suppliers will refer to raw brass sheets or rolls as "casing brass". This has absolutely nothing to do with shell casings or what the brass was created for. Most saxophones are made from brass that is approximately 70% copper and about 30% zinc with a trace of other materials such as lead, tin, aluminum, nickel, etc depending on how the material was manufactured and what it's going to be used for. Some saxophones may be made from nickel silver which is really a brass but with a much higher nickel content usually 10% to 20%. This gives the brass a silver color instead of the traditional yellow gold appearance. Then there is red brass which has a very high copper content (as much as 93%) Many of the Martin saxophones were made with red brass. After 20+ years of working on and playing thousands of saxophones and meeting with Mr. Jerome Selmer, I can attest there is no truth to this myth. However I will say the music and the player in this video does a fantastic job and it's a beautiful video.
Thanks Charles, I'm glad you enjoy the film, the music, and the story, and I must say you're right- this piece is indeed folklore!
@@altrane40 , a myth its always a myth, and Selmers Mk6 are a beautifull myth, very good video man, thanks...
Why? Why was this video made???
Jeremy Leff An excuse to noodle on RUclips, like so many other videos. Pretty sounding horns, but the guy should have kept his mouth shut and not made such a fool of himself.
colo story
Barnfind!!!!!!
ruclips.net/video/n2Wk9SiqKDo/видео.html
Bronze is not brass.
Selmer is no longer the leader in saxophone manufacturing. There are a few that got away from the French sound and created the new age American sound. It's all in what flicks your bic
What a crock!!! The shell casing story is nothing but an urban legend. Did the sound of the Balanced Action magically change after 1945? No.
Dexter Gordon kept his Conn until it was lost in transit in 1965. Ben Webster gave him a MkVI to replace it. That was the end of the "classic" Dexter sound.
@TenorSax123 Nope. I've played some and some where great, some of them sucked ass.
There are a lot of saxes, modern and vintage on the same level as the Mark VI. Is the Mark VI a good sax ? YES !! Is it THE best ? Probably not......In my opinion it's VERY overrated and over priced.
Nope.
This is what Trump calls "fake news" it's all bull
You play awesome,yes,you've got a Mark VI,but Egads,are you a smug son of a bitch.
You are a "believer." I call you believers "vibrationalists." It has been PROVEN on SOTW that material does not effect the sound of a saxophone. But there will always be people who will believe it does, just like they believe in superstition and religion. Saxophones sound like saxophones no matter what material they are made of.
Whats been ”proven” on SOTW is not science! I got my ears and i am a ”believer” in what they tell me so material does make a difference on tone.
Ignorance.
Pay attention to the details