I know like three iron maiden songs and own zero albums. I don't want any. I've definitely had the "Whaddaya mean you don't like maiden?!" conversations. I get far more enjoyment in other things so why force myself to get an "essential" band that for me are just not essential.
"Love an album because you love it." Great quote, I totally agree! Maybe learning more about something's significance can increase your enjoyment of it in certain cases, but it can't make you like something you wouldn't otherwise. That relies on the personal connection you feel to the music, period. Thanks Ben, good stuff. 🤘🤘
On the other hand, I love it when ppl explain or point out surprising influences that artists drew inspiration from. It can really open up new perspectives on music. But to a bully it's not as much fun as gatekeeping, I guess
Well said Ben. Never felt any pressure to listen or have the "right" albums in the collection. As you said, if you like it, you like it. Personal taste should not be dictated by others. One need to find your own metal path. Funeral, never heard of them. 😂😂 Cheers. 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I do find searching backwards through familiy trees of musical influences is a fast track to finding amazing music, but you could just as easily respond to this type of gatekeeping as "well you don't listen to Chuck Berry so you don't know anything about rock and roll because he set in motion the bababababababa" etcetera. I like many bands that are probably dead ends in regard to this, like Ludicra, because who knows who they influenced, who influenced them, blahblah, that is a tertiary goal of me listening to them. Well spoken.
For real. I never understood that type of gate keeping. But, I ignore that stuff and just listen to would I like. Great soap box speech haha! BTW, I messed up about a year ago and passed up that Funeral album only to come back to it literally 10 minutes later... and it was gone. Still kicking myself for putting it down. I know that guy that seen me pick it up must have had a sigh of relieve when I set it back in the bin. Damn it.
I enjoy all metal growing up in the 70s and seeing the beginnings of metal i get a kick in listening 2 the old school and finding new bands that are in my wheelhouse.
It's nice to hear your opinion about it, more considering all the great knowledge and passion you show when you show those great classics and tasteful collection, I totally agree with you, if you like it then enjoy it as much as you can and don't pay attention to comments from people who didn't like the same things you do, I believe a lot of this mentality of liking the same things that other people do, has to do with that old freakin' saying of "If you don't like this is because you're a poser", I hate that saying, in my opinion music should be the soundtrack of your life and resonate with you, no matter which band, genre or "true" they are, take as an example Alastis, I love almost all their albums but I know a lot of people who only liked their first or two first records, I understand that they could be monotonous or have simple riffs and songs, but they were a big part of my youth , sharing very nice moments with my friends when transitioning from old thrash and groove bands into more darker music and that's enough for me to consider them a great band and made me get their records in my collection, so everybody should do the same, enjoy your music no matter all the hate it could get.
Thanks for posting this. I've had concerns about this. I've been balls deep into metal for almost 2 years now, and being new to the scene and genre and also being quite young I tend to feel pressure to know where exactly metal came from and "like" every type of metal or anything related to metal or I'm not "appreciating the music enough".
Damn, I just figured out I can´t be a real Metalhead because I don´t have any Kiss albums and I simply hate the band... I was living an illusion for 38 years! Thank you Ben for waking me up! Hahahaha....
Interesting points, Ben. If someone wants to travel back through the archives to try and discover a bands influences, then good for them but if they are only interested in metal from a certain point in their life then that's okay too. I think metal as a whole has some of the worst gatekeeping instead of just letting people enjoy what they listen to.
Is it gatekeeping or are they just trying to have some sort of bragging rights? Do you like black metal? Oh, you do... Do you like obscure band/album? Oh, you do... But do you have the albums that influenced that??? Oh, you do... But do you eat the same thing for breakfast every day that the vocalist ate the day they recorded it??? Do you even own a pair of his used socks!!!
i think there's some albums that you should listen to at least once if you're getting into metal but you don't have to own them or hear their whole discography if its not your thing
Great points Ben. The fatal flaw in that type of gatekeeping is where does it stop? I mean if they are trying to draw a linear line from point A to what…..point Z then what albums / genres / eras do they feel would be enough ‘reverse engineering’ to satisfy their criteria? Am I (or anyone else for that matter) less of a metal head because I can get as much enjoyment out of Immortal - Pure Holocaust as I can from The Beatles - Abby Road? Nope.
I totally agree, Ben. Something I see a lot is that young people use the hindsight analysis that seniors have made in relation to certain periods in music, as a kind of identity and ideological starting point for listening to music. Like early Kreator is acceptable because of the recording techniques, it sticks to the musical tropes of thrash metal etc. rather than just listening to Kreator for pure enjoyment like people originally did back then. Instead, it's all about these rules being set up and only listening to music that fits those rules. It's a very masochistic and limiting way of approaching music if you think about it.
I feel like that's a tactic that us older people use to try to bully younger kids into listening to us and our opinions. Like, "how dare you not have listened to metal for as long as me?" Which is pretty silly, and does absolutely nothing to getting people to like our crusty old fart bands.
I very much agree with this. I think some people these days are afraid to fully embrace the bands or albums they like because of the potential for shame that could be attached. Naturally, if someone was to go full gung ho on some NSBM band, it's definitely questionable, but I feel shame is spread far and wide on the internet. I wholeheartedly believe that if I enjoy a band or an album, I will champion it and will happily discuss it with people who don't like it. Ultimately, their opinion isn't likely to change my own. And their opinion is also just as valid. Just like what you like. I used to be one of those gatekeeping idiots until one day I realised that not only is it pathetic, it's also detrimental to other people's enjoyment of things. You don't have to be the arbiter of what you enjoy.
Ben I was at the Door record store today and talking to the Owner he he's having big Halloween sale wanted let you know if your around madison in October
As the greenest of the greenest metal listeners. I couldn’t agree more. I’m somehow intimidated talking about it with life long metal listeners. It’s the same with the hardcore crowd. “Oh you listen to the new Turnstile album??? That’s basically pop music” sorry man I just like it.
Idk I feel like Dark Superstition might not have the deliberate and brutal completeness of Unexpected Reality or Desserted but there's a new found (albeit scattered) maturity here and the riffs are still...wait what are we taliking about?
I agree with you! I feel like certain types of metal fans get really uptight for no freaking reason over the most trivial things and are like “oh, if you don’t like XYZ, you’re a poser”. I had a certain video on my channel about safer alternatives for extreme metal fans that don’t want to listen to stuff that has connections to neofascist individuals that got a bunch of *those* kind of people commenting on it. Some of those comments were so vile and disgusting and very ignorant: crap like “Oh, stop crying about politics and listen to [insanely racist metal band] like a real man!!!” or “Poser!” or even stuff about how I shouldn’t be listening to black metal if I’m offended by NSBM bands (to which I responded that there is so much more to black metal than *those* types of bands). I eventually closed that whole comment section in order for me to move on from it. Now I don’t know if what I shared connects to what you’re saying, but that’s what it reminded me of.
One thing which bothers me about this is the assumption that deeper context is always necessary for resonance to be meaningful, which seems to me less about upholding great older music than it is about subliminally complaining about modern music which the person doing the complaining perceives as inferior. Personally, I heard a decent amount of “important” mainstream thrash as a teenager and found myself disappointed with how it failed to deliver the extremity and evil it promised in the way that, say, early industrial music or the nastier end of noise-rock did for me. Eventually I did find that in death-doom, grindcore, different strains of black metal, and I came to appreciate older thrash and speed metal on their own terms. But, well, I’m still not that into the Big Four, and I think that’s fine? And I don’t think my experiences are unique, either. You can’t control what does and doesn’t speak to you. Edit: I probably should have clarified that I’m talking about the type of gatekeeping being referred to here and not the attitude expressed in this video, by any means! I just realised that might be ambiguous given my phrasing and I wanted to be extremely clear about that.
Ok. So i guess I consider myself a traditionalist. So yes..I do agree you should “know it” and “respect it”. But you don’t have like it or own it. For example I respect the hell out of Beatles. Without them honestly no metal. They influenced everyone that then created heavier bands that then influenced actual metal bands and so forth down the line. Now, do I like the Beatles? No, do I own any Beatles albums? Nope. So that’s where I stand. If you love Bathory and hate Metallica that is perfectly fine. But if you say to me Metallica didn’t do shit and don’t even acknowledge their importance then yes, I’m going to blow you off
I dont get the gatekeeping. Ive talked to a norwegian black metalhead and she spoke of artists as "pensum" and i looked it up, it looked like it could be translated as curriculum. But i dont take that to mean "you have to like all of these to be a real metalhead" more of strongly suggestion, or a classic, like "you should hear this at least once or twice". Doesn't mean you have to like it because most people do. The elitism of the scene is a little funny to me, but i get it and mostly think it should be inherent to the scene so i expect this kind of thing, but its not that serious really and this is probably a case of taking it a little too far
I know like three iron maiden songs and own zero albums. I don't want any. I've definitely had the "Whaddaya mean you don't like maiden?!" conversations. I get far more enjoyment in other things so why force myself to get an "essential" band that for me are just not essential.
What? You don't like Maiden? What's wrong with you?!! Something like that Simon?😂😂
@@rogerkjorvik that's the one!
@@ExplosiveAction lol wimp
@@CisternRumblings massively overrated dad-rock. Listen to real metal.
@@ExplosiveAction "dad-rock" 😆 🤣
"Love an album because you love it." Great quote, I totally agree! Maybe learning more about something's significance can increase your enjoyment of it in certain cases, but it can't make you like something you wouldn't otherwise. That relies on the personal connection you feel to the music, period.
Thanks Ben, good stuff. 🤘🤘
On the other hand, I love it when ppl explain or point out surprising influences that artists drew inspiration from. It can really open up new perspectives on music. But to a bully it's not as much fun as gatekeeping, I guess
Well said Ben. Never felt any pressure to listen or have the "right" albums in the collection. As you said, if you like it, you like it. Personal taste should not be dictated by others. One need to find your own metal path. Funeral, never heard of them. 😂😂 Cheers. 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Totally agree with you, Ben. Some people almost bully people into buying records because they think you have to own them.
I do find searching backwards through familiy trees of musical influences is a fast track to finding amazing music, but you could just as easily respond to this type of gatekeeping as "well you don't listen to Chuck Berry so you don't know anything about rock and roll because he set in motion the bababababababa" etcetera.
I like many bands that are probably dead ends in regard to this, like Ludicra, because who knows who they influenced, who influenced them, blahblah, that is a tertiary goal of me listening to them. Well spoken.
@@heca2003 exactly. Thanks for watching.
For real. I never understood that type of gate keeping. But, I ignore that stuff and just listen to would I like. Great soap box speech haha! BTW, I messed up about a year ago and passed up that Funeral album only to come back to it literally 10 minutes later... and it was gone. Still kicking myself for putting it down. I know that guy that seen me pick it up must have had a sigh of relieve when I set it back in the bin. Damn it.
Thank you for saying this Ben ! I agree.
I enjoy all metal growing up in the 70s and seeing the beginnings of metal i get a kick in listening 2 the old school and finding new bands that are in my wheelhouse.
It's nice to hear your opinion about it, more considering all the great knowledge and passion you show when you show those great classics and tasteful collection, I totally agree with you, if you like it then enjoy it as much as you can and don't pay attention to comments from people who didn't like the same things you do, I believe a lot of this mentality of liking the same things that other people do, has to do with that old freakin' saying of "If you don't like this is because you're a poser", I hate that saying, in my opinion music should be the soundtrack of your life and resonate with you, no matter which band, genre or "true" they are, take as an example Alastis, I love almost all their albums but I know a lot of people who only liked their first or two first records, I understand that they could be monotonous or have simple riffs and songs, but they were a big part of my youth , sharing very nice moments with my friends when transitioning from old thrash and groove bands into more darker music and that's enough for me to consider them a great band and made me get their records in my collection, so everybody should do the same, enjoy your music no matter all the hate it could get.
I couldn't agree more. Well said, Ben.
Thanks for posting this. I've had concerns about this. I've been balls deep into metal for almost 2 years now, and being new to the scene and genre and also being quite young I tend to feel pressure to know where exactly metal came from and "like" every type of metal or anything related to metal or I'm not "appreciating the music enough".
Damn, I just figured out I can´t be a real Metalhead because I don´t have any Kiss albums and I simply hate the band... I was living an illusion for 38 years!
Thank you Ben for waking me up! Hahahaha....
Interesting points, Ben. If someone wants to travel back through the archives to try and discover a bands influences, then good for them but if they are only interested in metal from a certain point in their life then that's okay too. I think metal as a whole has some of the worst gatekeeping instead of just letting people enjoy what they listen to.
Is it gatekeeping or are they just trying to have some sort of bragging rights?
Do you like black metal? Oh, you do... Do you like obscure band/album? Oh, you do... But do you have the albums that influenced that??? Oh, you do... But do you eat the same thing for breakfast every day that the vocalist ate the day they recorded it??? Do you even own a pair of his used socks!!!
i think there's some albums that you should listen to at least once if you're getting into metal but you don't have to own them or hear their whole discography if its not your thing
Great points Ben. The fatal flaw in that type of gatekeeping is where does it stop? I mean if they are trying to draw a linear line from point A to what…..point Z then what albums / genres / eras do they feel would be enough ‘reverse engineering’ to satisfy their criteria? Am I (or anyone else for that matter) less of a metal head because I can get as much enjoyment out of Immortal - Pure Holocaust as I can from The Beatles - Abby Road? Nope.
I totally agree, Ben. Something I see a lot is that young people use the hindsight analysis that seniors have made in relation to certain periods in music, as a kind of identity and ideological starting point for listening to music. Like early Kreator is acceptable because of the recording techniques, it sticks to the musical tropes of thrash metal etc. rather than just listening to Kreator for pure enjoyment like people originally did back then. Instead, it's all about these rules being set up and only listening to music that fits those rules. It's a very masochistic and limiting way of approaching music if you think about it.
I feel like that's a tactic that us older people use to try to bully younger kids into listening to us and our opinions. Like, "how dare you not have listened to metal for as long as me?" Which is pretty silly, and does absolutely nothing to getting people to like our crusty old fart bands.
I very much agree with this. I think some people these days are afraid to fully embrace the bands or albums they like because of the potential for shame that could be attached. Naturally, if someone was to go full gung ho on some NSBM band, it's definitely questionable, but I feel shame is spread far and wide on the internet. I wholeheartedly believe that if I enjoy a band or an album, I will champion it and will happily discuss it with people who don't like it. Ultimately, their opinion isn't likely to change my own. And their opinion is also just as valid. Just like what you like. I used to be one of those gatekeeping idiots until one day I realised that not only is it pathetic, it's also detrimental to other people's enjoyment of things. You don't have to be the arbiter of what you enjoy.
Ben I was at the Door record store today and talking to the Owner he he's having big Halloween sale wanted let you know if your around madison in October
Funeraaaaalll!
As the greenest of the greenest metal listeners. I couldn’t agree more. I’m somehow intimidated talking about it with life long metal listeners. It’s the same with the hardcore crowd. “Oh you listen to the new Turnstile album??? That’s basically pop music” sorry man I just like it.
Idk I feel like Dark Superstition might not have the deliberate and brutal completeness of Unexpected Reality or Desserted but there's a new found (albeit scattered) maturity here and the riffs are still...wait what are we taliking about?
Gatecreeping lol
I agree with you! I feel like certain types of metal fans get really uptight for no freaking reason over the most trivial things and are like “oh, if you don’t like XYZ, you’re a poser”. I had a certain video on my channel about safer alternatives for extreme metal fans that don’t want to listen to stuff that has connections to neofascist individuals that got a bunch of *those* kind of people commenting on it. Some of those comments were so vile and disgusting and very ignorant: crap like “Oh, stop crying about politics and listen to [insanely racist metal band] like a real man!!!” or “Poser!” or even stuff about how I shouldn’t be listening to black metal if I’m offended by NSBM bands (to which I responded that there is so much more to black metal than *those* types of bands). I eventually closed that whole comment section in order for me to move on from it.
Now I don’t know if what I shared connects to what you’re saying, but that’s what it reminded me of.
You should know it
One thing which bothers me about this is the assumption that deeper context is always necessary for resonance to be meaningful, which seems to me less about upholding great older music than it is about subliminally complaining about modern music which the person doing the complaining perceives as inferior. Personally, I heard a decent amount of “important” mainstream thrash as a teenager and found myself disappointed with how it failed to deliver the extremity and evil it promised in the way that, say, early industrial music or the nastier end of noise-rock did for me. Eventually I did find that in death-doom, grindcore, different strains of black metal, and I came to appreciate older thrash and speed metal on their own terms. But, well, I’m still not that into the Big Four, and I think that’s fine? And I don’t think my experiences are unique, either. You can’t control what does and doesn’t speak to you.
Edit: I probably should have clarified that I’m talking about the type of gatekeeping being referred to here and not the attitude expressed in this video, by any means! I just realised that might be ambiguous given my phrasing and I wanted to be extremely clear about that.
Ok. So i guess I consider myself a traditionalist. So yes..I do agree you should “know it” and “respect it”. But you don’t have like it or own it. For example I respect the hell out of Beatles. Without them honestly no metal. They influenced everyone that then created heavier bands that then influenced actual metal bands and so forth down the line. Now, do I like the Beatles? No, do I own any Beatles albums? Nope. So that’s where I stand. If you love Bathory and hate Metallica that is perfectly fine. But if you say to me Metallica didn’t do shit and don’t even acknowledge their importance then yes, I’m going to blow you off
I dont get the gatekeeping. Ive talked to a norwegian black metalhead and she spoke of artists as "pensum" and i looked it up, it looked like it could be translated as curriculum. But i dont take that to mean "you have to like all of these to be a real metalhead" more of strongly suggestion, or a classic, like "you should hear this at least once or twice". Doesn't mean you have to like it because most people do. The elitism of the scene is a little funny to me, but i get it and mostly think it should be inherent to the scene so i expect this kind of thing, but its not that serious really and this is probably a case of taking it a little too far