Heard on the radio from the engineer.. "20 years ago all they would do was flip me off, now all they do is take my picture"...message in return, "two or three of these and they will be flippin you off again". LOL.
In upstate New York there is an abandoned line that runs north-south from Geneva to a large rail yard in Lyons, through Phelps, where the state's main lines are. Norfolk Southern abandoned it maybe 15 years ago. Although the tracks are in decent condition, the crossing signals are deteriorating badly. One crossing got so bad that the gates just dropped to the ground one day and the overhead signals rusted and fell to the highway, NY 318 in Phelps. This was once a very busy line. Now, of course, closer to Geneva, the line is used for boxcar storage.
The word around here is that CSX has turned away all offers and the line is off the market for now. Perhaps they're holding onto it in case they merge with another carrier who wants to route more transcontinental traffic through the St. Louis gateway.
Indeed. When they recently ran to pull these cars out, however, they were completely dead. The hotbox detectors on the other hand were all functioning normally. "No defects" LOL
Railroads can temporarily operate trains over out-of-service track, so long as they have a crew member(s) provide flag protection at the de-activated grade crossings.
Is there any update on this line or it's future? I see the video is a few years old. Amazing that the line wouldn't have any customers although this is csx were talking about. They're good at running off customers if nothing else. With csx dumping lines lately you'd think something like this would be on the chopping block.
@@scottn940 that sucks. They're doing the same thing here in Michigan. Removing all the sidings and yard and chopping up all the lost cars along the line. The locals were hoping they'd sell it before they completely destroyed the functionality of the line. They have sold off most of their lines in the state
It's now 2023 and this line is still out of service from O'Fallon, Illinois to Flora, Illinois, and to some degree from Mitchell, Indiana to Seymour, Indiana. The diamond with BNSF at Shattuc has been removed. But not with the UP (C&EI) @ Salem. Word was CSX is waiting on two things to happen. The repair of the MacArthur Bridge on the Missouri side where it crosses over Broadway Street and the return of the California perishables business in the southeast. CSX still runs a weekly out of Vincennes over to Olney and Flora for Consolidated Grain and other businesses. It remains to be seen if the merger to create the CPKC will change any interchange in East St Louis where KCS had interchange with CSX. With the recent CSX-CPKC agreement to route Mexican traffic to the east via Montgomery, the only opportunity maybe movement of autoracks west from the SE auto plants. At one time CSX was looking at offers for this route, but decided not to sell it. My guess is that because it duplicates so much of the old Conrail route, they will let it run dry (like they did with the Monon) and abandon it in small segments in Indiana to keep a competitor from taking away biz.
That makes a lot of sense, but they tend to overkill everything here in the USA due to numerous outrageous $$$$ lawsuits involving motorists and pedestrians.
They have horns for the simple fact that: Here in the US, idiot drivers think it's okay to go through the crossing gaurds and try to beat the trains. Or in case a crossing guard fails they have a back up. All to cover their asses really. As only a deaf person wouldn't hear one of those air horns.
CSX has been trying to route traffic away from the St. Louis area for the past 30 years. One main reason is that the Terminal Railroad Association is rather congested and charges expensive fees to both process railcar traffic and use their tracks into and out of the city.
@@scottn940 We would think that CSX should partner with Union Pacific in the St. Louis area and say to hell with Terminal Railroad Association! Either that or team up with either Norfolk Southern or BNSF.
@@seanycarr3226 - Well, actually, through all the mergers, UP actually has the greatest ownership stake in the TRRA, so they're the reason things are the way they are. I think it has less to do with CSX because this is simply at the end of their system, so their traffic is at the mercy of the carriers who will accept it. UP just doesn't want to move more volume through St. Louis at this stage. Now, CP-KCS could be a game changer, because they have their own bridge over the river in Louisiana, Missouri, about 80 miles north.
Short sighted railroads. They keep cutting there own throats. They keep taking tracks out of service and worse pulling the rails. These tracks are important to America’s economy and national defense. They could be used for mass transit. The railroad companies do a piss poor job in promoting their service. They don’t want to do accounts with one or 2 cars they only want to pick up hundreds. When the coal and oil trains go away they will be in trouble
This nation has very poor public policy on abandoned lines. Railroads, which are the true backbone of the country, are not treated in most cases by the government as a form of transportation. They are instead treated more as simply a private enterprise, with the vast majority of public funds going into highway, air, and maritime projects. Rail gets chicken feed. As such, unwanted lines are quickly shed to eliminate the tax and insurance liability burden they pose on the owning corporation. The loss of these lines has profound and in some cases devastating impacts on the communities they once served - communities that are now forced to rely on the recreational trails that often follow the last train out of town.
cmphighpower When traffic is down, it makes more sense to route all trains onto one line rather than disperse 15 trains onto one line and another 5 on the other daily. Having a handful of trains operate on one line while the other sees only a slightly bigger handful is a sign of trouble. Therefore, in a cost-cutting measure, they decided to divert all operations elsewhere. Make sense?
Scott Nauert If we drastically cut our defense budget and invested in our rail infrastructure, we'd be up there with Europe and Asia in terms of rail travel, and freight traffic would probably start booming cross-country (instead of in specific states in the West Coast, Southwest, parts of the Northeast, and Southeast) if we revived at least ONE state-owned (public) freight rail system funded by our tax dollars (like Conrail, only better; basically giving private industries a public option instead of relying on shipping everything by truck).
CSX is nuts. Cutting the most direct route from the eastern seaboard to St Louis. First they ripped it out east of Parkersburg WV, then back to Cincy and now this line vacillates between Cincy and ESTL. NS spent millions to get their gateway project to east coast ports in place. CSX is taking them out. They still think everything should route via Chicago just because UP prefers to. Either make it work or sell it to your junior railroad operators at the Indiana RR. Online business between Salem and Breese might actually want to come back. The Indiana RR could run express container services from POLA to INDY and back with UP like they do with CN and Prince Rupert.
They'll need to do quite a bit of work for that to be possible. All passing sidings have been ripped up since this video was made. Several ties will likely need replacing to maintain speed above 25 MPH. The signal system is likely in serious need of relays and battery equipment after 7 years of neglect, etc.
The last car of this train, PTTX 141095, shows at Customer location, on CSXT, North Birmingham,Alabama, which means American Cast Iron Pipe. So it is not stored as of 10/27/19.
The Illinois Commerce Commission received complaints from towns along the line when this train ran about the signals being out of service, and my understanding is that the ICC asked CSX to reactivate them before running additional storage trains. Given that CSX took the track back out of service by displacing the rail in Caseyville once again just recently, I assume they simply don't want to bother with the necessary labor and expense in doing so, not to mention having to perform the weekly inspections.
CSX is the only railroad removing miles of useful rail. And not just this line. Lines in Florida, New York, Ohio, and Indiana. NS should have gotten the saint Louis line.
*** UPDATE *** Today, a CSX track crew tore out a 10' section of rail in Caseyville, IL, effectively taking this line back out of service despite that these storage cars remain between Aviston and Shattuc, IL. This small section was originally cut back in 2015 when CSX ceased operating through traffic on the main line, but then was put back into place to handle what turned out to be the subject train of this video, and was again displaced today. As mentioned in the description, the future of this once-famous main line is in doubt.
The Illinois Commerce Commission stepped in literally minutes before the second storage train was to run and told CSX they could not operate another move through Illinois-funded grade crossings that were not functioning / taken out of service. My guess is, instead of fighting it or spending money to have all the signal equipment reactivated, CSX diverted the storage cars elsewhere, making this move the last one for a while as track crews showed back up in Caseyville recently and formally displaced the rail once more effectively taking the line back out of service.
I kind of figured that the ICC had something to do with it. At some point they will need to access those stored cars again, which should be interesting to see how they handle that. I've heard through the grapevine that the stored TTX cars in Aviston have become a playground for kids to climb on and there is a push to have CSX remove them. Not sure what will come of that if anything.
The PTC mandate has caused class 1s to remove track so they can reclassify it as "not mainline" tracks, but in a way that could be temporarily or easily reversed
Those tracks sure are in great shape for not seeing any traffic in two years. I wish we could say the same about the UP Tennessee Pass Subdivision in Colorado that hasn't seen anything in nearly 20 years and is still not considered "abandoned." I am not familiar with the CSX system. Where does this line run?
The Illinois Sub runs from St. Louis, MO - Vincennes, IN - Cincinnati, OH. This line became somewhat redundant when CSX acquired the former Conrail St. Louis Line from St. Louis to Indianapolis.
Why didn't they put EXEMPT signs at all the crossings? And, they could have done a better job flagging at the crossings. The red car that crossed in front of the train wasn't deterred by the flare that was just thrown in the road. They should have had the conductor at the crossing with the flag out to make sure no one crossed as the train was approaching, especially when there are signs that say TRACKS OUT OF SERVICE. Then again, it's also not like the cars couldn't see that a train was approaching
Glen, I totally agree. However, there was a lot of underlying politics that explains why things unfolded the way they did. Illinois, like several other states, has its own commerce commission that oversees railroad safety. Although they are not directly related to the FRA, they do have some regulating power when it comes to railroads using public infrastructure such as grade crossing protection. To put it bluntly, a state employee I spoke with whom I shall not name told me they were furious just a few years prior to the shutdown, the state had spent millions on grade crossing upgrades and new gate installations across this corridor in anticipation of increased coal traffic. Not only were crossings upgraded, but towns along the line were making financial investments in infrastructure to allow first responders the ability to reach the public when trains had crossings blocked. One glaring example of this was when CSX issued a press release about the line's demise almost immediately before the City of O'Fallon had completed its brand new multi-million dollar firehouse and overpass over the tracks. This infrastructure was built EXCLUSIVELY to eliminate conflicts between first responders and rail traffic during emergencies. Ironically, the day they had the ribbon cutting for the overpass in July 2015 was the very final day CSX ran traffic over the Illinois Sub (with the exception of these storage car moves). Those expensive grade crossing signals were quickly decommissioned and some partially dismantled. As such, when CSX's Hunter Harrison decided to make the line a parking lot for unwanted railcars, the Illinois Commerce Commission issued some pretty stiff requirements as to when and how these moves would take place.
Though the track looks very good, better to err on the side of caution. That IS a big train. Surprised to actually see one of those old, good-looking GP 30's in the motive power lash up.
ABS signals were indeed working, though lights seemed quite dim suggesting CSX hasn't been charging the batteries. A few crossing signals tried to come to life, but most also had dead batteries.
Well sort of.. This wound up being the only train of storage cars to run. There were hundreds more trains planned to fill the line up with thousands of cars, but the Illinois Commerce Commission put the brakes on that until CSX reactivated the grade crossing signal protection. Because most of the crossing signals had dead batteries, I'm guessing from a cost/benefit standpoint, CSX decided it wasn't worth it, so they displaced the short section of rail in Caseyville once more effectively taking the line back out-of-service. The storage cars remain parked out there, so unless they decide to torch 200+ railcars on site (highly doubtful), they will eventually have to come out in order to be sold and/or scrapped.
I'm sure that CSX is preferring its former Pennsylvania Railroad main through Effingham over its former Baltimore & Ohio Railroad main eastbound out of St. Louis, as the former Pennsy passes through Indianapolis and not the former B&O.
Messed up CN and CP, never got to mess up CSX ... if those cars are stored on this line, the taggers will put the paint shop out of business with their repainting antics ... and it is an all CSX consist.
Chuck Wells - Hunter Harrison, CSX's new President, feels he can save the company money by selling or scrapping a major portion of their railcar fleet.
Scott Nauert Many of those cars are in good shape & need a touch up if anything, not to just sit off somewhere & rust....somehow I feel like this is counterproductive in some way. Did doing this actually help CSX do you know?
Mr. Harrison is an asset stripper. I guess when the number crunchers sit down and run the figures, avoiding the complexities of railcar ownership probably saves the company some money somewhere. Why these cars haven't been sold or scrapped yet is anyone's guess.
You are correct. Interestingly, those plans changed when CSX acquired the former Seaboard / L&N St. Louis to Evansville main line about 10-15 miles south of where I took this video. CSX ended up ripping up the last 35 miles of the L&N into St. Louis in 1991, leaving it as a 170 mile long stub track. Then, they shifted L&N trains onto the B&O, which hung a right turn at Vincennes to access Evansville. With this line now mothballed in favor of the former Conrail St. Louis Line to the north, CSX trains from St. Louis destined for the south must go all the way up towards Terre Haute (and in many cases, Avon) before turning back south.
The rumor mill is churning at an all-time high now; supposedly multiple parties are interested in acquiring the line, some or one of which might be a class 1.. Will be interesting to see what transpires
Jeff - The economy really is booming. Unfortunately, the trucking industry, which enjoys taxpayer subsidized infrastructure, grabbed most of the traffic generated by new manufacturing activities. The demand for drivers and new semi trucks is at record levels while rail traffic has remained disappointingly stagnant.
and looking at it, i see signs saying tracks out of service but yet theyre in service still as storage, i guess CSX as usual, always trying to cut corners.......this time its with safety....
The public's perception was that this "sudden" train meant that CSX was going to start racing through their towns at track speed again - but without active crossing signals. Hence, panic and overreaction followed. As long as the railroad flagged the crossings, which they did, I really don't see the issue. I'm sure if CSX wanted to waste its time and legal resources fighting the Illinois Commerce Commission through the STB, it would likely have won, but with all the company's yard closures and such, track space for additional storage cars was ample, so I guess they just threw in the towel. Obviously these cars will have to be pulled eventually, be it for the line's abandonment or a new operator.
They're under incredible pressure from Wall Street to keep profit at absolute maximum levels right now. These hedge funds mean business, and sadly, time marches on for lines like this.
good video, but sad to see all those csx cars going to storage possibly never to see csx revenue service again. not sure why theyre storing ttx cars though. equally sad would be seeing the deadline all the stored engines are in. 600+ i hear.
Scott, do you have an idea how those two trail units made it back after they pulled past Carlyle? There isn't any access to a siding between there and Shattuc.
Hi Stan! As you can see, the weather, available light, and my patience - even for this rare event - had deteriorated by the end of the video. However, how they went about this was quite interesting. Without a siding to run around the train, they first put the lead Dash 8 into the stub track at Carlyle. Then, the geep & slug pulled the train east past the stub track and then they tacked the Dash 8 onto the last car. Then, they drug the whole shebang back west through town again and shoved the geep & slug into the stub track. Then, they used the Dash 8 to shove the train back east through town once again to clear the stub track switch. Finally, they brought the geep & slug out the stub, lashed the units back together, and then shoved the thing out towards Shattuc.
Ah that makes sense. I had a thought they would do that after they took the Dash 8 off and put it on the house track but I wasn't too sure. Thanks for the info!
Oh neat! Yeah I traveled down to see the Illinois sub to meet nothing, funny to see a train running before the signals do. Are they planning to use these lines more often, or was this because of the big storms and flooding? Again, nice video!
This line was taken out of service to through traffic in July 2015. It is now seeing temporary, limited use for car storage only and the future is uncertain.
It was talked about, but money is always the problem. I think it's rather pathetic there has been no passenger service linking St. Louis to the eastern United States since October 1979.
Heh, no they won't. UP would much rather abandon their lines or put them "on the shelf." Huge example is the Tennessee Pass Sub in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado. Rumors are surfacing that they want to do the same with the Moffat Tunnel Sub, which Amtrak uses twice daily and BNSF has trackage rights. UP has completely mutilated anything that was D&RGW.
Heard on the radio from the engineer.. "20 years ago all they would do was flip me off, now all they do is take my picture"...message in return, "two or three of these and they will be flippin you off again". LOL.
Is CSX Illinois subdivision that closed down now reopened
It always makes me warm inside watching train lines get revived, even for just a tiny bit
In upstate New York there is an abandoned line that runs north-south from Geneva to a large rail yard in Lyons, through Phelps, where the state's main lines are. Norfolk Southern abandoned it maybe 15 years ago. Although the tracks are in decent condition, the crossing signals are deteriorating badly. One crossing got so bad that the gates just dropped to the ground one day and the overhead signals rusted and fell to the highway, NY 318 in Phelps. This was once a very busy line. Now, of course, closer to Geneva, the line is used for boxcar storage.
The word around here is that CSX has turned away all offers and the line is off the market for now. Perhaps they're holding onto it in case they merge with another carrier who wants to route more transcontinental traffic through the St. Louis gateway.
Wow, it’s like they are trying to make up for lost freight traffic for 2 years in one swoop. That was one long, long train
These PTTX cars are no all stored, three are in Panama City,Fl, Indianapolis,In and Ahoskie,N.C. as of 10/27/19.
These were stored from April 2017 - March 2019, put back in service in early April this year.
Always good to see lines put back into service- jobs. Thank you for sharing!
This is honestly really cool. I'd always love seeing trains (temporarily) running on lines that arent even active lol
Great catch and video! Love all of the shots showing the deactivated crossing signals, though I did note that a couple of them did try to operate!
Indeed. When they recently ran to pull these cars out, however, they were completely dead. The hotbox detectors on the other hand were all functioning normally. "No defects" LOL
August 2015 was when it was shut down exactly 30 years almost to the T when CSX shut down the Line between Parkersburg and Clarksburg WV
That was one abandonment that should never have happened.
even though this line is being used for storage for rolling stock, arent the lights still supposed to hooked up to activate?
Railroads can temporarily operate trains over out-of-service track, so long as they have a crew member(s) provide flag protection at the de-activated grade crossings.
What a neat video! Thanks for sharing, Scott. It's really sad to see this line out of service.
Glad you enjoyed it. Sorry they ran so slow, but safety first!
Is there any update on this line or it's future? I see the video is a few years old. Amazing that the line wouldn't have any customers although this is csx were talking about. They're good at running off customers if nothing else. With csx dumping lines lately you'd think something like this would be on the chopping block.
No good news. They sent scrap crews out earlier this year and ripped up all of the sidings and switches.
@@scottn940 that sucks. They're doing the same thing here in Michigan. Removing all the sidings and yard and chopping up all the lost cars along the line. The locals were hoping they'd sell it before they completely destroyed the functionality of the line. They have sold off most of their lines in the state
it doesnt help either that on google maps satelite imagery in odin,illinois and shattuc,illinois the diamonds have been removed.
It's now 2023 and this line is still out of service from O'Fallon, Illinois to Flora, Illinois, and to some degree from Mitchell, Indiana to Seymour, Indiana. The diamond with BNSF at Shattuc has been removed. But not with the UP (C&EI) @ Salem. Word was CSX is waiting on two things to happen. The repair of the MacArthur Bridge on the Missouri side where it crosses over Broadway Street and the return of the California perishables business in the southeast. CSX still runs a weekly out of Vincennes over to Olney and Flora for Consolidated Grain and other businesses. It remains to be seen if the merger to create the CPKC will change any interchange in East St Louis where KCS had interchange with CSX. With the recent CSX-CPKC agreement to route Mexican traffic to the east via Montgomery, the only opportunity maybe movement of autoracks west from the SE auto plants. At one time CSX was looking at offers for this route, but decided not to sell it. My guess is that because it duplicates so much of the old Conrail route, they will let it run dry (like they did with the Monon) and abandon it in small segments in Indiana to keep a competitor from taking away biz.
I don't get why they still have to blow the horn if they have guys standing on the crossing. And a flare? Wow.
Unless a quiet zone is in effect, the FRA requires it.
Scott Nauert ridiculous. In Canada you don't have to blow the horn if a crossing is being flagged. You don't have to use a flag or flare either.
That makes a lot of sense, but they tend to overkill everything here in the USA due to numerous outrageous $$$$ lawsuits involving motorists and pedestrians.
They have horns for the simple fact that: Here in the US, idiot drivers think it's okay to go through the crossing gaurds and try to beat the trains. Or in case a crossing guard fails they have a back up. All to cover their asses really. As only a deaf person wouldn't hear one of those air horns.
@@gandalfthegrey7874 the perfect answer
Considering that Cincinnati and St. Louis are major Midwestern cities, why is this BO line not used much?
CSX has been trying to route traffic away from the St. Louis area for the past 30 years. One main reason is that the Terminal Railroad Association is rather congested and charges expensive fees to both process railcar traffic and use their tracks into and out of the city.
@@scottn940 We would think that CSX should partner with Union Pacific in the St. Louis area and say to hell with Terminal Railroad Association! Either that or team up with either Norfolk Southern or BNSF.
@@scottn940 possibly Union or political corruption involved?
@@seanycarr3226 - Well, actually, through all the mergers, UP actually has the greatest ownership stake in the TRRA, so they're the reason things are the way they are. I think it has less to do with CSX because this is simply at the end of their system, so their traffic is at the mercy of the carriers who will accept it. UP just doesn't want to move more volume through St. Louis at this stage. Now, CP-KCS could be a game changer, because they have their own bridge over the river in Louisiana, Missouri, about 80 miles north.
@@bluegrassman3040 - I think it has more to do with UP preferring to use Memphis and Chicago as interchange gateways vs. St. Louis.
Always hate seeing consolidation and another Sub/Line shut down through towns across America.
Short sighted railroads. They keep cutting there own throats. They keep taking tracks out of service and worse pulling the rails. These tracks are important to America’s economy and national defense. They could be used for mass transit. The railroad companies do a piss poor job in promoting their service. They don’t want to do accounts with one or 2 cars they only want to pick up hundreds. When the coal and oil trains go away they will be in trouble
This nation has very poor public policy on abandoned lines. Railroads, which are the true backbone of the country, are not treated in most cases by the government as a form of transportation. They are instead treated more as simply a private enterprise, with the vast majority of public funds going into highway, air, and maritime projects. Rail gets chicken feed. As such, unwanted lines are quickly shed to eliminate the tax and insurance liability burden they pose on the owning corporation. The loss of these lines has profound and in some cases devastating impacts on the communities they once served - communities that are now forced to rely on the recreational trails that often follow the last train out of town.
cmphighpower Worse still they may give America to the enemy
cmphighpower When traffic is down, it makes more sense to route all trains onto one line rather than disperse 15 trains onto one line and another 5 on the other daily. Having a handful of trains operate on one line while the other sees only a slightly bigger handful is a sign of trouble. Therefore, in a cost-cutting measure, they decided to divert all operations elsewhere. Make sense?
Scott Nauert If we drastically cut our defense budget and invested in our rail infrastructure, we'd be up there with Europe and Asia in terms of rail travel, and freight traffic would probably start booming cross-country (instead of in specific states in the West Coast, Southwest, parts of the Northeast, and Southeast) if we revived at least ONE state-owned (public) freight rail system funded by our tax dollars (like Conrail, only better; basically giving private industries a public option instead of relying on shipping everything by truck).
i keep saying that the rrs keep pulling up rails and they keep complaining that they dont have capacity , its their own fault.
Great video. Thanks
CSX is nuts. Cutting the most direct route from the eastern seaboard to St Louis. First they ripped it out east of Parkersburg WV, then back to Cincy and now this line vacillates between Cincy and ESTL. NS spent millions to get their gateway project to east coast ports in place. CSX is taking them out. They still think everything should route via Chicago just because UP prefers to.
Either make it work or sell it to your junior railroad operators at the Indiana RR. Online business between Salem and Breese might actually want to come back.
The Indiana RR could run express container services from POLA to INDY and back with UP like they do with CN and Prince Rupert.
They also ripped out the west end of the L&N as well.
Yeah, it becomes a problem when traffic is heavily congested through Chicago.
That was a great video
Thanks! Might not ever see a train on this line again. CSX started ripping up the sidings just recently.
I bet they start adding trains from St. Louis thru Flora again.
They'll need to do quite a bit of work for that to be possible. All passing sidings have been ripped up since this video was made. Several ties will likely need replacing to maintain speed above 25 MPH. The signal system is likely in serious need of relays and battery equipment after 7 years of neglect, etc.
@@scottn940 I see. Well, never say never.
The last car of this train, PTTX 141095, shows at Customer location, on CSXT, North Birmingham,Alabama, which means American Cast Iron Pipe. So it is not stored as of 10/27/19.
Correct. See my other videos of J900 taken earlier this year when they were pulled off the line.
That crossing bell seems quite confused. And the poor little 'stub' comes down but doesn't protect much!
The Illinois Commerce Commission received complaints from towns along the line when this train ran about the signals being out of service, and my understanding is that the ICC asked CSX to reactivate them before running additional storage trains. Given that CSX took the track back out of service by displacing the rail in Caseyville once again just recently, I assume they simply don't want to bother with the necessary labor and expense in doing so, not to mention having to perform the weekly inspections.
The stub is actually where the gate arm would've mounted to the gate mechanism.
are the target signals still on??
Erik Max Q M - Some were, others were not, and others looked much more dim than normal.
+Scott Nauert this so sad 😖
Crossing gates??? Facing the wrong way?? CSX in logo...in the kill box? Proudly steppin through the dew👍👍
Very nice video!!!
CSX is the only railroad removing miles of useful rail. And not just this line. Lines in Florida, New York, Ohio, and Indiana. NS should have gotten the saint Louis line.
The sign on the old depot in Carlyle says Louisville Division Great video BTW I know southern il railroads quite well!!!
I believe it was Louisville Division, Illinois Subdivision.
Great Video! Surprised there's still a working crossing.
Is this line active now?
No. CSX just got the permit to run back out here & grab all these cars. Line will likely either be sold or abandoned after.
Thanks for the info I ran thru this line on Google maps some of crossing still have they're Gates on unless it was a old street view
@@jeffgrise4386 - Many of the Google images in various towns were taken before the line was shut down in July 2015.
*** UPDATE *** Today, a CSX track crew tore out a 10' section of rail in Caseyville, IL, effectively taking this line back out of service despite that these storage cars remain between Aviston and Shattuc, IL. This small section was originally cut back in 2015 when CSX ceased operating through traffic on the main line, but then was put back into place to handle what turned out to be the subject train of this video, and was again displaced today. As mentioned in the description, the future of this once-famous main line is in doubt.
So much for filling up the entire line with additional storage cars. Would be interesting to know what led to CSX changing their plans.
Michael Monken - I tend to think something will happen soon - sale or abandonment - under E. Hunter Harrison's leadership.
The Illinois Commerce Commission stepped in literally minutes before the second storage train was to run and told CSX they could not operate another move through Illinois-funded grade crossings that were not functioning / taken out of service. My guess is, instead of fighting it or spending money to have all the signal equipment reactivated, CSX diverted the storage cars elsewhere, making this move the last one for a while as track crews showed back up in Caseyville recently and formally displaced the rail once more effectively taking the line back out of service.
I kind of figured that the ICC had something to do with it. At some point they will need to access those stored cars again, which should be interesting to see how they handle that. I've heard through the grapevine that the stored TTX cars in Aviston have become a playground for kids to climb on and there is a push to have CSX remove them. Not sure what will come of that if anything.
The PTC mandate has caused class 1s to remove track so they can reclassify it as "not mainline" tracks, but in a way that could be temporarily or easily reversed
Those tracks sure are in great shape for not seeing any traffic in two years. I wish we could say the same about the UP Tennessee Pass Subdivision in Colorado that hasn't seen anything in nearly 20 years and is still not considered "abandoned."
I am not familiar with the CSX system. Where does this line run?
The Illinois Sub runs from St. Louis, MO - Vincennes, IN - Cincinnati, OH. This line became somewhat redundant when CSX acquired the former Conrail St. Louis Line from St. Louis to Indianapolis.
Got it. So what city is this video shot in?
(all in Illinois) Aviston, Breeze, Beckemeyer, and Carlyle.
That line was redundant after UP tore up most of the old MP "Colorado Eagle" route in the 1990s.
Mike K It runs east from St. Louis to Cincinnati using southern Illinois and southern Indiana
Take it the line still not operational
i love the b&o line i see the train there along time
Well, I guess Mr. Harrison is continuing what he did during his reign with CN and CP: CAR STORAGE!
Word is that most if not all of this will eventually meet the cutting torch. A car trace revealed a destination of a scrapper in Decatur, IL.
Why didn't they put EXEMPT signs at all the crossings? And, they could have done a better job flagging at the crossings. The red car that crossed in front of the train wasn't deterred by the flare that was just thrown in the road. They should have had the conductor at the crossing with the flag out to make sure no one crossed as the train was approaching, especially when there are signs that say TRACKS OUT OF SERVICE. Then again, it's also not like the cars couldn't see that a train was approaching
Awesome video!
Well, at least it was an all CSX train!
the poor cross bucks look like she I supposed to be straight not turned.. so sad good by old B and O line 😩😩😩
There is no safety hazard when the crossings are flagged. This is perfectly legal.
Glen, I totally agree. However, there was a lot of underlying politics that explains why things unfolded the way they did. Illinois, like several other states, has its own commerce commission that oversees railroad safety. Although they are not directly related to the FRA, they do have some regulating power when it comes to railroads using public infrastructure such as grade crossing protection. To put it bluntly, a state employee I spoke with whom I shall not name told me they were furious just a few years prior to the shutdown, the state had spent millions on grade crossing upgrades and new gate installations across this corridor in anticipation of increased coal traffic. Not only were crossings upgraded, but towns along the line were making financial investments in infrastructure to allow first responders the ability to reach the public when trains had crossings blocked. One glaring example of this was when CSX issued a press release about the line's demise almost immediately before the City of O'Fallon had completed its brand new multi-million dollar firehouse and overpass over the tracks. This infrastructure was built EXCLUSIVELY to eliminate conflicts between first responders and rail traffic during emergencies. Ironically, the day they had the ribbon cutting for the overpass in July 2015 was the very final day CSX ran traffic over the Illinois Sub (with the exception of these storage car moves). Those expensive grade crossing signals were quickly decommissioned and some partially dismantled. As such, when CSX's Hunter Harrison decided to make the line a parking lot for unwanted railcars, the Illinois Commerce Commission issued some pretty stiff requirements as to when and how these moves would take place.
Though the track looks very good, better to err on the side of caution. That IS a big train. Surprised to actually see one of those old, good-looking GP 30's in the motive power lash up.
It was a 30 - 50 MPH main line prior to the shutdown in July 2015.
7:05 Is that a red signal I see? Crossings don't work but the signal system does?
ABS signals were indeed working, though lights seemed quite dim suggesting CSX hasn't been charging the batteries. A few crossing signals tried to come to life, but most also had dead batteries.
Are these railcars still located near Shitfuck Illinois?
These were pulled a few years ago. Some were put back in service while others were torched.
Dang I can’t stop smiling about what you called that town
THE THING IS ::: it is good they make use of what they have. just two years well that isn''t very long
Well sort of.. This wound up being the only train of storage cars to run. There were hundreds more trains planned to fill the line up with thousands of cars, but the Illinois Commerce Commission put the brakes on that until CSX reactivated the grade crossing signal protection. Because most of the crossing signals had dead batteries, I'm guessing from a cost/benefit standpoint, CSX decided it wasn't worth it, so they displaced the short section of rail in Caseyville once more effectively taking the line back out-of-service. The storage cars remain parked out there, so unless they decide to torch 200+ railcars on site (highly doubtful), they will eventually have to come out in order to be sold and/or scrapped.
I'm sure that CSX is preferring its former Pennsylvania Railroad main through Effingham over its former Baltimore & Ohio Railroad main eastbound out of St. Louis, as the former Pennsy passes through Indianapolis and not the former B&O.
Yep!
Its still sad tho
Messed up CN and CP, never got to mess up CSX ... if those cars are stored on this line, the taggers will put the paint shop out of business with their repainting antics ... and it is an all CSX consist.
Why exactly are these cars out of service?
Chuck Wells - Hunter Harrison, CSX's new President, feels he can save the company money by selling or scrapping a major portion of their railcar fleet.
Scott Nauert Many of those cars are in good shape & need a touch up if anything, not to just sit off somewhere & rust....somehow I feel like this is counterproductive in some way. Did doing this actually help CSX do you know?
Mr. Harrison is an asset stripper. I guess when the number crunchers sit down and run the figures, avoiding the complexities of railcar ownership probably saves the company some money somewhere. Why these cars haven't been sold or scrapped yet is anyone's guess.
2233, is that a "slug" unit?
Indeed.
CSX tried to shut this line down in 1987 88 or so when they took out the line across southern Ohio.
You are correct. Interestingly, those plans changed when CSX acquired the former Seaboard / L&N St. Louis to Evansville main line about 10-15 miles south of where I took this video. CSX ended up ripping up the last 35 miles of the L&N into St. Louis in 1991, leaving it as a 170 mile long stub track. Then, they shifted L&N trains onto the B&O, which hung a right turn at Vincennes to access Evansville. With this line now mothballed in favor of the former Conrail St. Louis Line to the north, CSX trains from St. Louis destined for the south must go all the way up towards Terre Haute (and in many cases, Avon) before turning back south.
Absolutely SUCKS to see once-busy lines like this all of a sudden go dark. Maybe some startup will buy it and make it useful once more. Or G&W.
The rumor mill is churning at an all-time high now; supposedly multiple parties are interested in acquiring the line, some or one of which might be a class 1.. Will be interesting to see what transpires
That water tower is gone now
Which one? Beckemeyer, Breeze, Aviston?
CSX need to stop p footing around and take this line. And stop wasting peoples time 😠😠😠😠😠
New CEO, eh? You know what I'm gonna ask...
all these cars and miles of locomotives stored,,,,,
yup, this economy is really booming.
6% unemployment?
the .gov would never lie to us?
Jeff - The economy really is booming. Unfortunately, the trucking industry, which enjoys taxpayer subsidized infrastructure, grabbed most of the traffic generated by new manufacturing activities. The demand for drivers and new semi trucks is at record levels while rail traffic has remained disappointingly stagnant.
and looking at it, i see signs saying tracks out of service but yet theyre in service still as storage, i guess CSX as usual, always trying to cut corners.......this time its with safety....
To be fair, however, CSX did have personnel providing flag protection at every grade crossing to ensure the public's safety.
It seems CSX got their butt kicked for this little stunt up in Chicago.
The public's perception was that this "sudden" train meant that CSX was going to start racing through their towns at track speed again - but without active crossing signals. Hence, panic and overreaction followed. As long as the railroad flagged the crossings, which they did, I really don't see the issue. I'm sure if CSX wanted to waste its time and legal resources fighting the Illinois Commerce Commission through the STB, it would likely have won, but with all the company's yard closures and such, track space for additional storage cars was ample, so I guess they just threw in the towel. Obviously these cars will have to be pulled eventually, be it for the line's abandonment or a new operator.
I don't think it was the suddenness, they had a flagger and all. It was the fact the move ran into the darkness.
B&O=Baltimore & Ohio Railroad.
Short sighted railroad Bureaucrats.....
They're under incredible pressure from Wall Street to keep profit at absolute maximum levels right now. These hedge funds mean business, and sadly, time marches on for lines like this.
good video, but sad to see all those csx cars going to storage possibly never to see csx revenue service again. not sure why theyre storing ttx cars though. equally sad would be seeing the deadline all the stored engines are in. 600+ i hear.
The TTX cars looked as though they were most recently used in unit pipe train service. I was puzzled why they were in the mix as well
Scott, do you have an idea how those two trail units made it back after they pulled past Carlyle? There isn't any access to a siding between there and Shattuc.
Hi Stan! As you can see, the weather, available light, and my patience - even for this rare event - had deteriorated by the end of the video. However, how they went about this was quite interesting. Without a siding to run around the train, they first put the lead Dash 8 into the stub track at Carlyle. Then, the geep & slug pulled the train east past the stub track and then they tacked the Dash 8 onto the last car. Then, they drug the whole shebang back west through town again and shoved the geep & slug into the stub track. Then, they used the Dash 8 to shove the train back east through town once again to clear the stub track switch. Finally, they brought the geep & slug out the stub, lashed the units back together, and then shoved the thing out towards Shattuc.
Ah that makes sense. I had a thought they would do that after they took the Dash 8 off and put it on the house track but I wasn't too sure. Thanks for the info!
Oh neat! Yeah I traveled down to see the Illinois sub to meet nothing, funny to see a train running before the signals do. Are they planning to use these lines more often, or was this because of the big storms and flooding? Again, nice video!
Nick Klein There is still one signal that still works at 19:00!
Nick Klein or kind of anyway!
This line was taken out of service to through traffic in July 2015. It is now seeing temporary, limited use for car storage only and the future is uncertain.
Ah ok, well good to know, thanks!
Well look at that lol, poor signal.. :(
Has Amtrak considered running this route? Also, any other companies looking at the east-west line?
It was talked about, but money is always the problem. I think it's rather pathetic there has been no passenger service linking St. Louis to the eastern United States since October 1979.
Amtrak just got some billon dollars from president Biden so we will see
this SO SO SAD, I passed by their nothing change and the crossbucks still turned :-(
Shouldn't they of manually protected that crossing ? IE. get their asses out with a flag ?
why just dont sell it to U P . they will buy anything LoL
Heh, no they won't. UP would much rather abandon their lines or put them "on the shelf." Huge example is the Tennessee Pass Sub in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado. Rumors are surfacing that they want to do the same with the Moffat Tunnel Sub, which Amtrak uses twice daily and BNSF has trackage rights. UP has completely mutilated anything that was D&RGW.
Mike K lol I know that I was just playing I know LOL
They even took the rock island
America goin back to work!
thank you Mr Trump!!!
arkie74 These cars are going into storage, they are NOT going back into service. Trump had nothing to do with this.
arkie74 - This plan was enacted well before Trump's election.
Awesome video!