I work for Hobbyco, the Australian retailer that was shown at the start of the video, so I thought I’d give a quick rundown on what it’s like to live with these guys. We’ve had the 3803s discounted at $249.99 (£132.75) for a good long while now, which based on your British standards is still too much. With our unfortunate Aussie price/quality ratio, as you’ve heard from a few people now, $250-300 is roundabout right for us. For comparison we’re currently retailing the Hornby Railroad P2 Cock O’ The North (R3171) at $264.99 (£140.70), which I’d say is more of an equivalent comparison to the 38 (flat finish, no sprung buffers, lack of cab detail, no tender pickups, etc.). We retail the A1 Doncaster loco shown in the running session at $424.99 (£225.99). If we had the 38 at that price they’d most likely be thrown back through our windows like bricks, and rightly so. In terms of customer reaction we’ve had to the ARM range, I’d say it’s improved over the span of the last 3 or so years since we first started getting them in. The first 3 ARM locos, 3806, 3803 and especially 3820 had big quality control problems. Most of the separately fitted parts were extremely delicate, and having to handle them to put them out on display was a nightmare. Good number of instances where they’ve been damaged on arrival to our shop/the customers home inside the styrofoam packaging, meaning we’ve subsequently had to refund/replace the model. Their newer 38s, 3801 and 3830, have fared far better quality wise, I’ve personally not had one brought back in a similar manner. I have a few regulars who have bought the ARM range and quality/performance wise I’ve not heard many complaints if any, but that could potentially be them being polite/starved of better quality models for comparison. The lack of lights and the fixed tender bogeys remain a contentious issue, turning a good amount of people away from them. ARMs most recent model, the D55, does fix a few of the things wrong with the 38, mainly the finish is much nicer and they’ve added swivelling bogies on the tender (still no pickups). Unsurprisingly it doesn’t include the headlamp that most D55 locomotives had in their working lives, which is most likely ARMs way of dodging the noise caused by lack of lighting. It’s certainly a step in the right direction for sure, but still not a big enough step to justify the price just yet, given it retails the same as the 38s at $299.99. Overall my summation would be that this is our equivalent of a Hornby Railroad model, and I’ll only ever describe it as such to any customers enquiring about it. For our Aussie standards we’ve just about priced it like one but in the UK it’s enormously overpriced, that Hattons price is absolutely ludicrous. Ideally I’d love to have them at that £100-110 range, since I’d probably mark this model close to most Railroad models such as the P2 in terms of features/quality (although I’ve not lived with the P2, just went back to your videos about it, the Railways vs Railroad range video and the more recent New Build P2 review), but sadly that’s just not the situation here. We do fiercely love the real C38 locomotives in Australia, particularly here in New South Wales, so it’s a bit gutting to see you tear our poor child to shreds, but completely justified at your price point. Love your reviews, and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year 👍
No, ARM have NOT dodged anything regarding the lack of headlights on the D55!!! The version they released is the EARLIEST version of the class with weren’t fitted with headlights. Those came later on when the class were gradually rebuilt from the K class into the D55’s.
Understood of course, I might imagine lack of headlight on the earlier version could have come into consideration when deciding whether to do the earlier of later version of the 55, but all speculation of course. Will be interesting to see if they go with headlamp versions of their future models, would love to see them do the 34 or 58 class, given we’ve got none left in preservation.
I think the chose to do K1353 first due to the well known publicity photo of it taken by the NSWGR’s publicity department. After all, it’s the first ever RTR representation of a K/D55 in plastic being brought onto the market, so you’d may as well go for a ‘classic’ version of it….. To my knowledge, I don’t think any 55’s were ever ‘Blackout’ (I.e. no headlights or turbo generators) when in their rebuilt form (happy to be corrected though!), so ARM would have to include them on the rebuilt versions if they are to be a correct representation.
Yes I agree - I was going to comment saying same - that it's price weighting in Australian market very much equivalent as Hornby Railroad not a premium model by a long way. But still a very nice loco when you add a led for the front for $10 and a DCC sound decoder of whichever flavor you choose.
Hey Sam. I actually work for an Australian model train retailer (Branchline, based in Victoria. We are a family owned business) so I feel I can offer a little perspective on a couple of things. Regarding price, this has often been a sticking point of our industry. We simply have a much smaller population and market than the UK, and as such production runs are much smaller. Since working at our shop I think the prices have tended to average around 1.5-2x that of the equivelant UK models (which sells just about as well as our Australian ranges). Covid has done a lot to equalize things, but who knows how long that will last. Not saying that makes it ok, just providing context. If you'd like to investigate any more Australian locos in the future, I can certainly recommend the models produced by Auscision. While every brand produces the odd lemon, I quite like them from an overall quality and detail standpoint, especially their deisels. While I don't tear down trains and analyse them to the extent you do, simply based on the breif testing we do in store and rate of returns I can give these a thumbs up. Sorry to see your first forray into Aussie models was a bit of a dud. But there's some good stuff out there if you do a bit of digging around. As always, great video. :)
I can vouch for the quality of the Auscision NR. Don't know about their other models, but I'm interested in the Victorian Railways 'C' and 'L' classes.
Thanks a lot for sharing - yes plenty of people have said that about the price, so I can see why this could be considered good value in Australia! This video is very much from a British point of view though, where the model was even more expensive than in Australia when it released… and as you say, compared with other British models, this doesn’t compare favourably at all! Auscision does sound amazing, only ever heard good things, so will have to try them some time!
Yeah pricing is the same here in NZ, if even worse. Theres a massive markup on most models here. I recently bought a Bachmann Pannier tank from a UK retailer, and including shipping to NZ it cost me around $220 total, compared to local prices for the same model being around $350-$400. Im currently waiting for the new Hornby steam generator locos to come out, I preordered the Black 5 and I am expecting it to be over $600NZD (£300+).
Correct, and add another dimension. We do not have a model making company that deals with NZ locomotives. They are all scratch built, using 3d printing. The scale to reflect reality would be totally different between HO and OO.@@_Zekken
Pretty much everyone here in AU was mad when we learned ARM has refused every time our request for an led. For $300aud, it's ridiculous to not even get that vs all the other shortcomings. Also we are kinda out of luck for loco's. $500+ is the norm, so anything 'budget' is rare.
This is a re-use of the old Lima tooling. ARM also reused some Lima tooling for carriages to run with the 38. So the low quality Is a product of the old tooling (I think Hornby owns the tooling, hence their connection to the model). Mind you this loco is budget for the Australian model railway market. All other steam locos are at least AUD 600 plus. I own a brass 38 which I paid over AUD1000 for, and it is worth every dollar
Sadly, wanting to get back into Model Trains now I am retired, I find everything here in Australia is “Gold Plated”. Seriously looking at buying from Japan, the UK or US because even with the horrendous postage costs, their prices work out somewhat more affordable - sad for the very few model shops here, who don’t seem to get much support from the suppliers (not a big market compared with other countries). Love your no BS work Sam 😀👍🇦🇺
@@ComengProductions The only 'Cheap' Australian stuff I can think of are the old Lima products (fine if you want to model the 90s or earlier South Australia or NSW), and Wuiske (who only do QR, though in both HO and HOn3½/TT Gauges). Though even the latter starts at $299 for a Co-Co diesel and $200 for a pack of three wagons, or $399 for a starter set (loco and three wagons).
Sam, this model came out some time ago in Australia. I think the appeal of this model in Australia was that the 3801 version of this real locomotive is an Icon of steam in Australia, similar to the Flying Scotsman in the UK. There has always been a call for a model of this Locomotive. Still, until now, the 38 Class has attracted a price of $1000 from other model manufacturers, so I think that Lima\Hornby (ARM} saw a potential income stream from this Australian Model train. We all know here in Western Australia that Horny manufactured its companion coaches (These are now as scarce as Rocking Horse Poo), but I managed to get four at a discount price of $35 each secondhand at our annual Train Show in June. Most Australians run HO, not OO. However, I did purchase the 3801 version of this Locomotive when it first came out, but it was a similar experience to yours. Still, I persevered with it-fitting a 3mm LED in the headlight and fibre optic light to the marker lights at the front of the Loco along with pickups in the tender and fixing the tender permanently to the Loco. Then, I fitted an ESU sound Chip in the Locomotive body (This was a Blo***!! Pain), but it sounds OK now. All that was left was the Coal in the tender that appeared like Black Vomit. So, this was changed for real coal. Unfortunately, this added $238 to the price of the already expensive Loco, but it's still cheaper than the $1000 required from other Australian manufacturers. Best Regards, Bill from W/Australia. All the Best for Christmas and the New Year.
Some Australian context is probably required here. The ARM C38’s (there’s a few now in different numbers and liveries) is meant to bridge the gap between 1970’s Lima C38’s selling for $300AUD+ on eBay and the Eureka Models C38’s ($640AUD+). Prior to the ARM release in 2020, if you wanted to model the NSWGR, you had two options: very old second-hand models selling ABOVE their new prices, or dropping almost 700$ for a Eureka C38. The ARM release did two things: it dropped the price of Lima C38’s down on eBay, and provided an option that wasn’t the better part of a thousand dollars for a loco. That being said, it has the flaws Sam highlighted here, and it’s still pricey for what you get. But it has made an impact on the Australian modelling landscape, and provided modellers with something they didn’t have before: an option. I’ll also add the 1990’s C38 you mention are extremely rare, and can only really be found on eBay or the secondhand market. You could spend all year waiting for an update Streamlined Lima C38 and you might end up paying the same as the brand new ARM (~$299AUD).
Because the Australian market is quite small, manufacturers tend to charge way more for each model as they have to recover tooling costs from smaller volumes. This particular model would compare to a Hornby Railroad class model, although it's basically very old tooling. The C38 sells for about A$290 here. More detailed locos can range around A$400-650. I'm trying to get an Ixion J515 J class loco which costs A$599.99 maybe you should get one 😊 Nice to see an Aussie loco running around your track regardless.
the Irish market is even smaller and yet just about every class of Irish locomotive has been released as a high quality model at a resonable price. So clearly someone is taking advantage of hobbyists Down Under.
@@ArcadiaJunctionModelTrains very true its why many of the members at my local club run American instead of Australian because its way cheaper and you get better value for money. In saying that the only worthwhile Australian company to buy from is auscision I've not had a bad loco ever from them. My arm i bought was an absolute pile of junk i laugh everytime I see "crafted in china" under the loco
I agree with everything you’ve pointed out however in Australia this is considered a budget model, I know people who’ve owned them and been quite happy with it seeing as though any other really nice high quality Aussie steam loco models are upwards of $600aud. I also agree compared to UK models of the same price it seems like a rip off but for us in Australia it’s quite revolutionary to have a new release steam loco this cheap.
Thanks for sharing, yeah that does seem to be the case! Obviously I review models from my point of view as a British person… and it was even more expensive over here by a huge amount when it first came out!
@@SamsTrains yeah converting the original UK price to aud it’s considerably higher for what it is, either way it was interesting to see someone not from Australia’s view on it.
This model is literally the worst Australian model released in the past 15 years. Typical Australian model trains are literally the exact opposite of this model. Hornby and ARM have really let Australian manufacturers down, as there were high hopes this would mean Australian models would make it into the UK and Europe. Please don’t take this model as a representative of Australia- the online store Australian Modeller offers international shipping and sometimes has sales.
Great review Sam, just to mention only 4 are left in preservation, that being: 3801- Operational at the NSW Transport Museum 3813- In pieces Dorrigo NSW 3820- Static Display NSW Transport Museum 3830- Owned by the Powerhouse Musuem but static display at the NSW Transport Museum
3830 has been running within the last 5years however if its down to static thats a shame but im sure it wont be static for long. In fact I’m sure both the first and last of the series live on. There is a very good old Ytube video NFSA (A steam train passes) set back in the 1940’s from engine shed to the days run on 3801. The driver and fireman cook bacon and eggs on the shovel.
@@MICMARKMAC Pretty sure it’s last run was around 2010. 3830 has taken 20s place in the museum currently. You are referring to the ‘A steam train passes’ film.
The reason it looks small is that it is HO not 00 If you see 3801 next to Flying Scotsman when it was in Aud in the 1980s you realise howx big C38s are due to the bigger loading gauge One of the problems I feel regarding price and quality is the extremely small market that Australian models have compared to Hornby.
@renown16 what are you talking about. With gauge. The loading gauge is bigger in Aus, the track gauge is the same, standard gauge in NSW. You can't compare an HO model and a 00 model as whist the track gauge is common ho is is 1/87 and double 00 is 1/76 If the 38 class was 00 it would be bigger than the 00 Scotsman. The Same can be said for 0 gauge, we use 1/43 and the American use 1/48. The only other thing is here in Aus we have 3 track gauges on the real railways. States like Victoria and South Astralia havex5ft 3 , Queensland and have 3f 6. Whilst standard gauge goes everywhere the legacy of 3 gauges is a business disaster.
@renown16 it amazing how small ho feels compared to 00. Having said thatci modelx 0 gauge. I recently bought the Rapido Titfield Thunderbolt set, it's tiny but also amazing quality. The sound is unbelievable.
The state of HO/OO gauge model locos is apalling lately. this model has quality and designs on par with what hornby produced nearly 20 years ago but for double the price. even a "budget" range model like Hornby Railroad will set you back at least £110 for a Loco and Tender. Shocking. (great review though, I envy your patience and self control sam xD)
Remember the Australian market is nothing like the UK one. This thing might be cheap, but it's also half the price we pay for any other steam locomotive.
To be fair Australian prototypes are freaking expensive and made more so by our small population and even smaller modeling group , The ARM was actually a fair crack at giving beginners here a fair chance to own a model that was an Australian model and didn't break the bank and was better then the Lima one. Compared to what you are used to this is garbage but for some of us on the other side of the world this was well needed!!! the more expensive Australian models are top notch and freaking kill it most of the time but not everyone has $600+ dollars for a steam loco so good on ARM for doing this ... yes the tender bogies are a let down bet beggars cant be choosers. be happy your UK market is not as wreaked as our AU market is for model trains.
Sam, a few points. This loco is HO and was for the Aussie market and, at $299, comes in at well less than half the cost of its nearest competitor. Eureka models will have a rerun of their 38 class, and it will be 3 times the price. I have added DCC to mine, and it runs well even at low speed. Yes, it could be better, but it's built to a price we have not seen locally for many years. I have 12 38 class locos ranging from this one to brass PSM models worth $3,000. It's not too bad for what it is. With some detailing and a bogie kit (S55) from Ctrlp models, it's pretty good.
These 38 class models are quite popular over here in Australia and sell out fast due to being cheap and affordable, $300 being one of the cheapest new Australian models you can buy at all and atleast half the price of the next steam locomotive model. For example, a D50 class model produced by Eureka Models costs $680. Lots of people at my local train club bought these and repainted them, renumbered them etc as at this price they make a good base for building off. This is essentially the Hornby Flying Scotsman of Australian models. Need to keep in mind that not every country has the population and market scale of the UK / US, Hornby would have sold more models of 1 varient of the Hush Hush than most Australian models sell in all their varients, thus the price represents this. All of that said, 200 GBP was slapping additional costs to it, converting from AUD to GBP it should have costed approx 150 GBP.
The ARM C38 makes a lot more sense in the context of Eureka C38’s being the only other real option, and at a severe premium at that, or paying insane prices for 1970’s Lima C38’s.
The chassis in this loco is made by Mehano, used to be made in Slovenia, been around for many years, it's actually not too bad a runner if you convert the tender base with a pick up kit available online. This is essential if fitting DCC and especially sound. Unfortunately here in Aus this is the cheapest loco available, on a par with the Hornby railroad Flying Scotsman.....
Interesting video Sam; ARM are a subsidiary of Southern Model Supplies who import Hornby products into Australia, (no relation to Lima),so presumably they use the same Chinese factory as Hornby. The lack of features were to keep the price down to A$300 which is a "budget" price for a steam outline model loco in Australia.
Hey Sam This is 1 of 4 models i own and i absolutely LOVE THIS MODEL! Don't go on hating it! I love this model and i stand my grounds! /also, I accidently dropped this model early in its life and it survived a 1 metre fall without taking damage! this model is legendary! its so cheap for its quality $300 Aud is so good!
Had you noticed the cylinder bock on the fireman's side is cantited to an angle. Appears to me different from the other side of the loco. You should have mentioned more on the fact that the tender bogies are fixed and not independent. Keep Adventuring.
Hello Sam, I agree with you about this model, however it is the cheapest steam H0 locomotive in Australia by a large amount. It is not the old Lima body tooling. The Lima body tooling was more accurate and has sharper detail. The rest of the old Lima model was bits from European models made by Lima. Eureka Models will be producing a rerun of their NSW 38 soon and it will cost more and will have a working headlight and a DCC sound option.
AFAIK, Australian Railway Models is a partnership between Hornby and Southern Models Supplies, who are the Australian distributor of Hornby. Hence the very Hornby look & feel. Despite this being an all new model, the lack of lighting, fixed tender bogies & the expansion link being pivoted in the wrong spot (amongst other issues) are baffling. This loco is a budget model in Australian steam terms, most of the premium steam locos are AU$600+. Thankfully diesels are about AU$335. If you want to try more Australian Models, I would recommend trying either an Auscision or SDS Diesel. If I had to pick one, the Auscision NR is the one I would recommend but there is a fair bit of choice. A note on pricing: Australian models tend to be more expensive compared to US or UK models, as less of each version is made (as few as 50 sometimes). Hence models are more expensive as the tooling costs remain the same.
Here in Australia they cost about the same as a hornby railroad tender loco, in my opinion they're worth it. I've had no problems with mine apart from the damage it got from the post. Another thing, yes they are retooled lima's
Hornby locos are what counts for budget here in AUS. Our homegrown manufacturers have been trying to make cool stuff. But it costs a lot to get them shipped back from the factories in China and tool them in the first place. SDS models and Auscision models are two of the biggest and I recommend some of their diesels over this, but you still won't like the price.
Regarding the no headlight, at the time, a lot of NSW locos didn't use headlights in the daytime. That information is from another person that reviewed this locomotive. As with all models, there are pros and cons and compromises. Not sure if I like the look how the coal looks though.
Got one of these myself at the beginning of the year (tho it’s the 3801 version), can’t say I’ve experienced any of these issues myself, crawls fine, no problems with glue marks, runs great, paint is fine, yeah the lamp doesn’t work, though some people like to point out that nswgr locomotives rarely ran with their lamps on as a justification, though it’s probably because this is a budget model.
ARM dropped the ball with this class and the prior one before. Fixed bogies on tender, no leds etc. Our other manufacturers are much better, a little bit dearer, but the details and quality would give all your Hornby models are run for their money.
You guys are lucky to have such cheap models at hand a ready to run model in the scale i model is 1500 to 3000k for a steam loco ive even seen one sell for 5k and yet a kit is almost 700 bucks and thats 1/64 scale
There’s an American influence in the streamlined appearance. It looks to be based on the New Haven I5 class 4-6-4 passenger locomotives. Those engines were built in 1937 and only 10 were ever made. All were retired by 1951 and scrapped though. But thankfully the streamlined appearance lives on in the form of the c38, and to a lesser extent the New Zealand j class.
The designer of the C38, Harold Young, visited the New Haven RR and watched them build the I5. Then later claimed that the C38 was an entirely Australian designed loco, and made no credit to the I5, which is a near identical twin.
@@OwenBudd1I'd also like to add that the prototype drafts of the C38 had them seen with similar side plates to the NYC J3a "Dreyfuss Hudson" below the cab before it was changed to a smoother flowing step down like design you see now.
@@clockwork3494 yes, I believe that the designer visited a few railroads in the US just prior to designing the C38, so it seems he drew inspiration from a few locomotives in service at that time.
Be interesting to compare an Aucision XPT against a modern British HST (and even the old Hornby export XPT!) but 1400AUD for the 7 car XPT set might blow the whole 2024 budget.....
Fun fact: the C38’s design was heavily influenced by the Pennsylvania Railroad’s K4 pacific locomotive, and the C38 was essentially a scaled-down k4. The k4 had 80 inch driving wheels, while the C38 had 69 inch driving wheels. Many elements were copied over from the k4, including the belpaire firebox, boiler design, and cylinder assembly.
Sam. If you are able to get an Auscision Victorian Railways B class then it may be interesting to compare it with your Triang Railways blue and gold R.159 doubled ended diesel to show how much progress in acurracy and quality has been made. Even though the Triang model was released in 1958, it had working headlights and lit cabs at both ends. Pat Hamminds books records only a handful of locomotives outsold it. Americans are amazed to see a double ended F7 running on six wheel all powered bogies. A class introduced in 1953 and a few still running on mainlines. Are there any mainline diesels that can match that?
$300 AUD is quite normal for Australian DC locomotives heck some locomotives are even $335 AUD nowadays so it is understandable why it could be expensive.
Hi Sam, great review and a shame to see that you got such a poor model. I have 3 of these (3801, 3803 and 3806) and they are all decent for the price I paid. However as others have said, these are very cheap compared to other Aussie Steam prototypes, so perhaps I'm too easy on them haha. ARM have certainly incorporated some of the constructive criticism on their most recent release, i.e. proper bogies on the tender, however still have a number of design issues the modeller is required to fix. Will jump on the bandwagon and suggest Auscision, Casula Hobbies (Z-19 or Z-12 class steam) or SDS are worth a look. Mike
Hi Sam I don’t model NSW railways, but model Queensland Railways in HOn3-6 on 12mm gauge track. Which most RTR models are produced by Wuiske Models or Southern Rail in both HO or Hon3-5. Southern Rail also model other Australian Railways. As with most of our hobbies here in Australia we generally have to pay more due to import costs, but then hobbies are worth it. That particular model C38 seems rather outdated.
I see this on the shelf at the hobby shop and it looks cheap, even from a distance. That's a pity because there are some absolutely lovely Australian steam models around now - The Phoenix D3 class and Ixion J Class. Not cheap, but very nice.
Like the Phoenix SDS D3 4-6-0 in Canadian Red that Like Towan featured on the first of his recent layout building videos. Many wondered what that great looking model was.
Everyone and their mother is pointing out that railway models are expensive in Australia and rightly so, but it also goes the other way too, in Japan. They do N-scale instead, but for example the Kato C62 (large, late era, steam express loco) costs the equivalent of just 60 GBP. If you buy from a local retailer outside of Japan however this will likely more than double, and you're experiencing a similar issue of buying foreign models here with the C38.
When it comes to Aussie stuff, I'm aware Auscision tends to be the gold standard, even if their stuff runs upwards of $300 (US). Needless to say, Australian model trains aren't cheap, and that's before import duties. A shame, really. I might primarily collect Conrail, but I wouldn't mind having an NR Class or two in either original or Pacific National livery.
This locomotive is ARMs first attempt at a locomotive, there second locomotive the K class has released now. Many companies have released the 38 in Australia in kit form and RTR and most cost $600-$1000 now. If you want to try a very Australian diesel try auscision as well as SDS models (have there 81 class and it’s amazing). Could also try idr models there x200 is good. If you want aus steam there is the wombat models 30 class
I'm from Sydney Australia and I can tell you that if this model was produced in N scale I would honestly pay double the amount wanted for this HO scale model. I am a vivid advocate for N scale and it still annoys me that HO scale is the absolute king of railway model scales. 38 class locomotives for N scale are like hens teeth - impossible to acquire. 3801 (bullet nose in green livery), looks amazing and I would honestly pay $700+ for one DCC if I could get one!! Why is it that I can I easily buy Auscision brand NR class diesel locomotives for my Indian Pacific train yet absolutely nothing available from Auscision in Australian steam for N scale. Insert puzzled look on my face. 😮
it certainly was a surprise to see a review from you of a model from my home country! I work for a retailer in Australia that sells these models, but have never bought one because I mainly buy British stuff. It was interesting to see this model reviewed under your criteria, and the price you paid is certainly more than I'd be willing to spend. It's hard to believe that shipping and import costs can accrue such a price disparity but I suppose this does give you a taste of what buying British models in Australia can be like!
In the eighties a Korean Brass made HO SAR 520 was manufactured by ALCO the Australian Locomotive Company in limited numbers. They were about $700 then but they are so sought after and high standard that they go for $2000 second hand. Not made for the kiddies toy market though.
I'd love to see you do a review on 3801 done by a reputable company. You could even run it beside the Scotsman as they did during Scotsmans visit to Australia
I joined the NSWGR in 1988. I managed to get aboard the Scotsman one night in the shed at Eveleigh when she was out here! The driver I was working with wasn't impressed with it, said the 38's were much better.
You should try Auscision Models, they seem to make some great Australian models, much better than Hornby, oops I mean Australian Railway Models. This thing is made in the same factory as Hornby stuff in case you are wondering. 🤣
!00% agree... Auscision are pretty much the king brand when it comes to Aussie locomotives and rolling stock. My N scale NR class loco's are amazingly detailed. Just a pity that their N scale range is extremely limited with NO steam loco's at all.
I got that model but I might tell you that the bogies on the tender don't turn they're stuck on leaving the wheels to have little movement. There's one green one of 3803 that's a LIMA brand which has better momentum than the Australian Railway Models.
ARM (aka Southern Model Supplies) seem to have had exclusive distribution rights for Hornby in their territory so it’s perhaps not surprising that Hornby were interested to a reciprocal arrangement
@@johnd8892 Hatton's used to be my LHS for decades until they annoyed Bachmann. Now I go to Sheffield. When the price at my local shop here in Brisbane is twice the price..
Hey Sam. Thanks for the review. I was debating splashing out for this as an absolute treat but after this I think I can hold off. My great great grandfather used to drive these trains, may have even driven this very one so it’s nice to see you review it regardless. A few months ago I got to sit inside the cab of its sister 3801 at Sydney Central Station, an experience which was so wonderful after its many years of absence since I last saw it when I was a child in 2007. Hopefully we get some more cheaper Australian trains soon. Merry Christmas and a happy new year from Sydney!
Hey Sam, I actually bought a similar model but it was 3801 number and different Very livery. It did not have any of the floors that this had and was over all an amazing model. Keep in mind this was bought from the model railway shop down the road.
Decent review overall Sam, only seen one other review of one of these C38 locomotives but it was the green one that you had cancelled, very interesting being able to get it from Game but nowadays they do seem to do a variety of things other than video games now.
You were correct when you thought this was a re-use of the old Lima tooling. I think the connection to Hornby is that they own the tooling. Personally I think it’s decent for the price. It’s by far the cheapest Australian steam loco on the market (most others being $600 plus). I personally own a brass 38 which I paid over AUD1000 for, and love to bits. It is a beautiful model full of detail
I don’t agree with this being a Lima Retool, if you put the two side by side they’re entirely different. The Lima C38’s body is a 2-part construction with the smoke box being a seperate part, the level of detail on the ARM body is lightyears above the Lima body. The only thing they share, in my opinion, is they’re both models of a C38. If it’s a retool, then it is one that has involved re-designing the body entirely from the ground up so at the end up with something else entirely. That being said, the ARM model has flaws. But I don’t believe it’s because they’re using a Lima model as the basis.
@@OwenBudd1 happy to stand corrected (it’s only what I’ve heard, never seen them side by side). Maybe they used the Lima tooling as a basis and then upgraded it?
@@1234mallard I probably need to correct myself also, the C38’s I have are the unstreamlined versions. I did own one of the updated Lima Streamlined C38’s, but sold it recently. The streamlined Limas however have identical chassis and mechanisms to the unstreamlined versions, and share all other parts, so I would be surprised if they had used much of the Lima body, beyond rough dimensions etc. And there is still a lot more detail, and better defined, on the ARM models than the old Limas. Now I wish I held onto that Lima and compared it to a new ARM streamlined!
Maybe it was not the best bargain, but who knows? Maybe next will be cheaper yet better quality. Thanks for another video. One of a few things that makes me smile, even with the fact that I have serious depression. I really appriciate that. I love the format od your video's and I'm trying to look at every part ss if I had to do it myself and that makes me admire your patience and the effort you put into it. Just wow. Have a great day Sam and keep up the amazing work!! 😊
ARM are apart of southern model supplies, which is the Australian distributor for Hornby. I believe they got Hornby to tool it for them . They also work with Hornby/Scalextric to bring Australian car into the Scalextric range.
I was there when the 3801 was in steam after she finished her overhaul (mind you, i kind broke lockdown rule's too - but i had to do shopping) at Sydney's Central train station...."Henry" green on the 3801 or the 3803's black, if you ask me i like the green more.
Mine died, but not to it’s fault, there was a sudden surge in power from the shitty controller I was using, and it fried the capacitor. It is a model I will buy again. The cheapest Aussie tender locomotive is that or a Bachmann R.O.D 2-8-0.
Looks cool. But it does have so defects. But I really do like this train. I might get one soon when I get more money. Looks lovely. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur the best. U never disappoint
Hi Sam, I purchased the "non-streamlined" ARM 38 class and had DCC sound fitted, as well as an LED headlight, by the retailer. With DCC it crawls very well. There is a company called CTL-P who make a swivelling bogie conversion as well as some other bits to make this a better model, but of course this all adds to the cost. I bought 3801, the streamlined class-leader and am yet to convert it. Cheers!
Ime in AUS and I bought one from the Bathurst rail museum, I think it was $400. Bought it for a keepsake and have never run it. The prob in AUS is it’s a very small population, so models are very low volume and extremely high prices. Certainly a huge disincentive for enthusiasts here in AUS
I always wanted this as a kid, but my parents said no. I know why now. It'd be cheaper to build it from scratch with all the standard mechanisms. Any chance of making a 3D printed engine mould of this on your shop? 😅
18:00 NSW resident here and while you may not like how it doesn't have a working headlamp, this is prototypical. During daylight, all NSWGR steam locomotives run with their headlamps turned off. Also for the NSWGR (1924-onwards) classification system, we don't use the letters at all. Engines like No. 3803 here would just be referred to as a "38 class" (the letters were for documenting reasons). Just to add here but there's a reason for its price is because in Australia alongside the company's 55 class 2-8-0, the 38 class is the *cheapest* Aussie steam locomotive as steam over here is expensive as hell because they're produced in limited runs, not mass-produced like UK model firms do. Basically, the standards for Australian HO is different for British OO.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do for an "outstanding" video, but can you check out the Del Prado N scale models? They are pretty well detailed, and from what i've seen pretty cheap. Also i heard they can be converted to be motorized.
Yessss !!! My favourite, The Hornby Merchants Navy Class makes a return !!! Sad that didtnt get to see enough of it in this video. I want to see more of the Merchants Navy Class !!! Also great video Sam. Not so great model though 😅
Is it me or are the cylinders tilting downwards from the front whilst the slide bars slope upwards. The left hand side looks worse than the right side.
I noticed that too, but I wasn't quite sure whether it's wonky cylinders or an illusion because of the warped running plate. Of course, these things were also designed to run upside-down...
@@rwjenkinsHaha, as always I can't see something Aussie related without the mention of upside down jokes. To answer you both though as an Aussie who was able to see 3801 in person at Junee, no, the cylinders shouldn't be drooping downwards as they appear on the model. I know some engines do angle the cylinders like the 9F class, but the C38's had them parallel to the running plate, you can look up images on google for extra clarification but yeah, definitely another defective part of the model.
It's nice to see the ARM 38 reviewed here, but one must consider the context of Australian railway modelling. The Eureka 38s (when they are produced) are- although a superb model- over $700. Old Lima 38s (modified or not) often make more than $200 in auctions on eBay. The market for Australian models is unfortunately smaller than those for British, American, European or Japanese model- therefore the costs are higher; this being a major reason why I predominantly model British OO. However, the ARM 38s (and the fact that the "cheaper" outline models are drastically becoming more expensive) have evened out the playing field somewhat. A comparison to the Hornby A2 would be a fair exercise- here the A2 generally goes for $320, but sometimes from $280-449, whereas the 38 I've seen from about $260-350. Both have their shortcomings, but the fact the ARM 38 can pretty much go toe-to-toe with a Hornby model's market value is insane value for an Australian model to have (that's one reason why my father and I collected all five they released- they also released them sequencially not all at once).
Thanks for sharing - yeah this is true, but at the same time it wouldn’t have cost them much extra to make this a bit better… an LED in the front for instance would literally cost pence. It seems to me that they’ve taken advantage of the high price of most Australian models by introducing something as cheap and nasty as possible and making it seem like good value in comparison!
I've got one of these, and in my opinion it looks alright, but it should not be $300 for a basic locomotive. Though I hope it doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth for Australian models, because from what I've seen in reviews, the quality is top notch and many come DCC fitted with sound. And something that might shock you, $300 is cheap for ready to run steam locomotives in Australia, it's actually the cheapest on the market. Though if you can get your hands on one of the more quality models, I'm sure you'll be happy with it, and about the fixed bogies, there is a 3D Printed kit available by CRTL P models where you can get swiveling bogies on it and a proper Kade coupling which is something I've put on my model. Great review, I think this model would definitely have scored higher if it was at a much more reasonable price.
Yep exactly how I felt when I bought mine when arm first released the c38 in 2020 in standard unstreamlined guise and it was an absolute nightmare. When it arrived it had busted details, no couplers fitted at all, no led light, a very poor running motor, poor running due to dodgy pick ups and no tender pick ups and fixed tender bogies that had been cast wrong as it was derailing the tender on straight pieces of track. Arm never got back to me regarding the warranty so I rebuilt it to a standard I'd expect for the $300aud I paid. At least you got a coupler lol. There's an 8 pin socket that was also faulty on mine so I had to delete that and hard wire the loco dc. In future I shall keep away from any and all arm products. Also sometimes the pilot bogie on the loco will jump the rails on occasion causing nasty derailments at speed.
The valve gear looks great on this loco. This would be a neat budget engine if it were priced a lot lower. Only thing that really bothers me is the fixed tender trucks, which is an odd unnatural feature. Great review as always!
Sam you need to check out Argyle locomotives in g gauge thats something totally different c38,puffing Billy expensive but lovely 😂😂, cheers lad,enjoy the rest of your year,merry Xmas
Australian models are allways overpriced, this model is one of the cheaper H0 models, most don't live up to standards really - hence why I've purchased so few. Hopefully one day Australian model manufacturers get the memo. Great video, Sam, maybe review something Western Australian next time? (JK, theres only one ready to run WA loco, that being the WAGR L class diesel - and I think that would be difficult to get in the UK.
Despite its flaws in detail, there are many, I love to run the pair I own, especially the non streamlined one which looks great head on. By the way ARM’s next model, a vintage goods engine is believed to be of much better detail and design, fingers crossed.
I think you just upset all us NSWGR modellers. The ARM 38 was a godsend for the hobby. A basic starter NSWGR loco. Which helped younger people to get into the hobby. $300 Australian is extremely cheap and a great starting point to make it into a much more detailed model for people who want to put the effort in. People in the UK have had things too good for too long on the in the model train world, and really don't understand how good they have it. A high quality NSWGR steam locomotive is on average $600 to $800 Australian.
Excellent review Sam and certainly a model I would not pay 229 pounds for but certainly is an attractive looking locomotive and with some very minor upgrades like tender pickups and DCC sockets and working headlight would make it worth a higher price
The quality of mine is amazing it was my first model and as a 10 year old back then it went through hell, i remember dropping it and it's still fine, still my best performing loco and my favourite other then the R,O,D 2-8-0.
It's interesting with your review and perspective. Here in Australia a top quality steam locomotives is usually $600 to $800 in the Australian prototype. This is due to small production runs for the Australian market. So with this model being $300 (half the price of other steam models), comparatively its a bargain and an introductory model. It's interesting to hear you say you expected lighting and tender pick ups, I was expecting pretty much what it is and I forked out $300 happily. Again our pricing is reflective of our market which is essentially a small, boutique market of models that slots in between large production slots.
Put it this way, to have added an LED, tender pickups, and other minor upgrades would have cost them about £10 extra per unit. Because of the shoddiness of this model, the UK price has now been slashed from £229 to £105, representing a loss of over £120 per unit. I would suggest that had they spent a little extra on making the model decent, their sales may have performed better. I for one would have given a much more positive review. The reduction of price by well over 50% does not indicate remotely decent sales. Even the very worst British models rarely, if not never, have to be discounted by that much in order to sell.
@@SamsTrains Don't get me wrong, I think your review is correct and I agree with it in the context of your market. However in the context of our Australian market, this is a bargain/hobby entry product at that price which shows the disparity of the Australian market vs the British market. I wish we could get top quality Australian prototype steam locos for $300AUD, but that's the power of economies of scale. Our production runs are around 1000 units, whereas British and American production runs are 10,000 to 20,000 units. I agree, I wish it were better, I was just giving you the context of this model in the context of ots market. Love the review and I wish it were cheaper or better quality, I definitely agree with you!
Oh for sure, things are very different over here - and I know what you mean when you say I reviewed this from a British context... it's just I can only review things from my point of view! That said, most British production runs are nowhere near 10,000 units these days! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fair review, Sam. I'm a great fan of the C38s, having had the thrill of travelling behind one. But I didn't buy AMR's model because I doubted its quality. (No review in Australia's leading model railway magazine, and AMR's ads lacked essential information about its mechanism, pick-up, etc.). It seems I was right. I have the 1996 Lima, but that was nowhere near the best contemporary standard. Another Australian manufacturer recently reissued their C38 which looks to be much better quality, but unfortunately the price was over Au$700!
I've seen this model loads of time in the shop and running by other model train users. It's a nice model but what really bothers me is that the bogies on the tender do not pivot and is fixed in place, which is a huge "operational nightmare" compared to the original Lima HO C38 locomotive that has the swivelling tender bogies. There is an HO kit made exclusively for Australian Railway Models HO Class C38, this kit has the tender chassis and a pair of bogies so that the tender can have pivoting tender bogies to replace the rigid tender bogie. That's my input as I saw the model before.
@@leonkernan I'd imagine that you're either referring to brass, or just limited production run plastic? Brass would probably be the way to go anyways for steam. Its not just Australia where getting anything pre-built properly & with good quality is a challenge...
What's wrong with "8 pins" ? For something basic like this loco an 8-pin decoder is more than enough, and it easy and cheap to pick one, from a huge selection.
@SamsTrains the ARM got 4.89 and the Streetcar got 4.93, so shouldnt it be the worst and not second to worst? Also EFE J94 was redeemed, you need to give it an apology
I have to add the C38 class locomotive, whether Lima or ARM to the list of locos that are way out of my price range, and I would really love to own one. I have very fond memories of taking my small son down to the level crossing at Acacia Ridge back in the 1980's to see the two most memorable train visits to Brisbane, the LNER 4472 Flying Scotsman and preserved NSWGR C38 class 3801 as they steamed into town.
Hi Sam Yeah I bought the original release when these came out Via Hornby a couple of years ago and the first thing I thought was its a Hornby Railroad loco, quite disgraceful for 160 quid at the time. I've seen the black one at Game now for £105 if they had been this price to begin with I wouldnt have a reason to say anything bad about it. Just seen seen the score you gave it doesnt it mean its the worst loco of the year?? as it seems to have a lower score than that railbus thing you reviewed. anyway thanks again for the review :)
This is the cheapest steam locomotive you’ll be able to buy in Australia. The ARM C38s usually go for $289/£153. If you’re looking for other manufacturers they go for upwards of $500/£260 so it was a welcome bargain down here. Sad you don’t enjoy it as much as we do!
Sorry this came too late to make the Top 5 Worst locos, but maybe it’ll get a dishonorable mention in next year’s video. Have a great day, and I’ll be sure to comment on the Top 5 Best!
I work for Hobbyco, the Australian retailer that was shown at the start of the video, so I thought I’d give a quick rundown on what it’s like to live with these guys. We’ve had the 3803s discounted at $249.99 (£132.75) for a good long while now, which based on your British standards is still too much. With our unfortunate Aussie price/quality ratio, as you’ve heard from a few people now, $250-300 is roundabout right for us. For comparison we’re currently retailing the Hornby Railroad P2 Cock O’ The North (R3171) at $264.99 (£140.70), which I’d say is more of an equivalent comparison to the 38 (flat finish, no sprung buffers, lack of cab detail, no tender pickups, etc.). We retail the A1 Doncaster loco shown in the running session at $424.99 (£225.99). If we had the 38 at that price they’d most likely be thrown back through our windows like bricks, and rightly so.
In terms of customer reaction we’ve had to the ARM range, I’d say it’s improved over the span of the last 3 or so years since we first started getting them in. The first 3 ARM locos, 3806, 3803 and especially 3820 had big quality control problems. Most of the separately fitted parts were extremely delicate, and having to handle them to put them out on display was a nightmare. Good number of instances where they’ve been damaged on arrival to our shop/the customers home inside the styrofoam packaging, meaning we’ve subsequently had to refund/replace the model. Their newer 38s, 3801 and 3830, have fared far better quality wise, I’ve personally not had one brought back in a similar manner. I have a few regulars who have bought the ARM range and quality/performance wise I’ve not heard many complaints if any, but that could potentially be them being polite/starved of better quality models for comparison. The lack of lights and the fixed tender bogeys remain a contentious issue, turning a good amount of people away from them.
ARMs most recent model, the D55, does fix a few of the things wrong with the 38, mainly the finish is much nicer and they’ve added swivelling bogies on the tender (still no pickups). Unsurprisingly it doesn’t include the headlamp that most D55 locomotives had in their working lives, which is most likely ARMs way of dodging the noise caused by lack of lighting. It’s certainly a step in the right direction for sure, but still not a big enough step to justify the price just yet, given it retails the same as the 38s at $299.99.
Overall my summation would be that this is our equivalent of a Hornby Railroad model, and I’ll only ever describe it as such to any customers enquiring about it. For our Aussie standards we’ve just about priced it like one but in the UK it’s enormously overpriced, that Hattons price is absolutely ludicrous. Ideally I’d love to have them at that £100-110 range, since I’d probably mark this model close to most Railroad models such as the P2 in terms of features/quality (although I’ve not lived with the P2, just went back to your videos about it, the Railways vs Railroad range video and the more recent New Build P2 review), but sadly that’s just not the situation here.
We do fiercely love the real C38 locomotives in Australia, particularly here in New South Wales, so it’s a bit gutting to see you tear our poor child to shreds, but completely justified at your price point. Love your reviews, and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year 👍
No, ARM have NOT dodged anything regarding the lack of headlights on the D55!!!
The version they released is the EARLIEST version of the class with weren’t fitted with headlights. Those came later on when the class were gradually rebuilt from the K class into the D55’s.
Understood of course, I might imagine lack of headlight on the earlier version could have come into consideration when deciding whether to do the earlier of later version of the 55, but all speculation of course. Will be interesting to see if they go with headlamp versions of their future models, would love to see them do the 34 or 58 class, given we’ve got none left in preservation.
I think the chose to do K1353 first due to the well known publicity photo of it taken by the NSWGR’s publicity department. After all, it’s the first ever RTR representation of a K/D55 in plastic being brought onto the market, so you’d may as well go for a ‘classic’ version of it…..
To my knowledge, I don’t think any 55’s were ever ‘Blackout’ (I.e. no headlights or turbo generators) when in their rebuilt form (happy to be corrected though!), so ARM would have to include them on the rebuilt versions if they are to be a correct representation.
Yes I agree - I was going to comment saying same - that it's price weighting in Australian market very much equivalent as Hornby Railroad not a premium model by a long way. But still a very nice loco when you add a led for the front for $10 and a DCC sound decoder of whichever flavor you choose.
Yes
Hey Sam. I actually work for an Australian model train retailer (Branchline, based in Victoria. We are a family owned business) so I feel I can offer a little perspective on a couple of things.
Regarding price, this has often been a sticking point of our industry. We simply have a much smaller population and market than the UK, and as such production runs are much smaller. Since working at our shop I think the prices have tended to average around 1.5-2x that of the equivelant UK models (which sells just about as well as our Australian ranges). Covid has done a lot to equalize things, but who knows how long that will last. Not saying that makes it ok, just providing context.
If you'd like to investigate any more Australian locos in the future, I can certainly recommend the models produced by Auscision. While every brand produces the odd lemon, I quite like them from an overall quality and detail standpoint, especially their deisels. While I don't tear down trains and analyse them to the extent you do, simply based on the breif testing we do in store and rate of returns I can give these a thumbs up.
Sorry to see your first forray into Aussie models was a bit of a dud. But there's some good stuff out there if you do a bit of digging around.
As always, great video. :)
I can vouch for the quality of the Auscision NR. Don't know about their other models, but I'm interested in the Victorian Railways 'C' and 'L' classes.
Thanks a lot for sharing - yes plenty of people have said that about the price, so I can see why this could be considered good value in Australia! This video is very much from a British point of view though, where the model was even more expensive than in Australia when it released… and as you say, compared with other British models, this doesn’t compare favourably at all! Auscision does sound amazing, only ever heard good things, so will have to try them some time!
@@DC4260Productions their L is fantastic, typical good Auscision quality. same with the C from what i've seen
Yeah pricing is the same here in NZ, if even worse. Theres a massive markup on most models here. I recently bought a Bachmann Pannier tank from a UK retailer, and including shipping to NZ it cost me around $220 total, compared to local prices for the same model being around $350-$400.
Im currently waiting for the new Hornby steam generator locos to come out, I preordered the Black 5 and I am expecting it to be over $600NZD (£300+).
Correct, and add another dimension. We do not have a model making company that deals with NZ locomotives. They are all scratch built, using 3d printing.
The scale to reflect reality would be totally different between HO and OO.@@_Zekken
Pretty much everyone here in AU was mad when we learned ARM has refused every time our request for an led. For $300aud, it's ridiculous to not even get that vs all the other shortcomings. Also we are kinda out of luck for loco's. $500+ is the norm, so anything 'budget' is rare.
Ahh so the issue was raised with them and they ignored it? Shameful for how much they've charged!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yeah, Australian locos are quite expensive, especially Victorian Railways ones but they have great detail, so it sort of evens out.
This is a re-use of the old Lima tooling. ARM also reused some Lima tooling for carriages to run with the 38. So the low quality Is a product of the old tooling (I think Hornby owns the tooling, hence their connection to the model). Mind you this loco is budget for the Australian model railway market. All other steam locos are at least AUD 600 plus. I own a brass 38 which I paid over AUD1000 for, and it is worth every dollar
Sadly, wanting to get back into Model Trains now I am retired, I find everything here in Australia is “Gold Plated”. Seriously looking at buying from Japan, the UK or US because even with the horrendous postage costs, their prices work out somewhat more affordable - sad for the very few model shops here, who don’t seem to get much support from the suppliers (not a big market compared with other countries). Love your no BS work Sam 😀👍🇦🇺
@@ComengProductions The only 'Cheap' Australian stuff I can think of are the old Lima products (fine if you want to model the 90s or earlier South Australia or NSW), and Wuiske (who only do QR, though in both HO and HOn3½/TT Gauges). Though even the latter starts at $299 for a Co-Co diesel and $200 for a pack of three wagons, or $399 for a starter set (loco and three wagons).
Sam, this model came out some time ago in Australia. I think the appeal of this model in Australia was that the 3801 version of this real locomotive is an Icon of steam in Australia, similar to the Flying Scotsman in the UK. There has always been a call for a model of this Locomotive. Still, until now, the 38 Class has attracted a price of $1000 from other model manufacturers, so I think that Lima\Hornby (ARM} saw a potential income stream from this Australian Model train. We all know here in Western Australia that Horny manufactured its companion coaches (These are now as scarce as Rocking Horse Poo), but I managed to get four at a discount price of $35 each secondhand at our annual Train Show in June. Most Australians run HO, not OO. However, I did purchase the 3801 version of this Locomotive when it first came out, but it was a similar experience to yours. Still, I persevered with it-fitting a 3mm LED in the headlight and fibre optic light to the marker lights at the front of the Loco along with pickups in the tender and fixing the tender permanently to the Loco.
Then, I fitted an ESU sound Chip in the Locomotive body (This was a Blo***!! Pain), but it sounds OK now. All that was left was the Coal in the tender that appeared like Black Vomit. So, this was changed for real coal.
Unfortunately, this added $238 to the price of the already expensive Loco, but it's still cheaper than the $1000 required from other Australian manufacturers. Best Regards, Bill from W/Australia. All the Best for Christmas and the New Year.
Some Australian context is probably required here. The ARM C38’s (there’s a few now in different numbers and liveries) is meant to bridge the gap between 1970’s Lima C38’s selling for $300AUD+ on eBay and the Eureka Models C38’s ($640AUD+).
Prior to the ARM release in 2020, if you wanted to model the NSWGR, you had two options: very old second-hand models selling ABOVE their new prices, or dropping almost 700$ for a Eureka C38. The ARM release did two things: it dropped the price of Lima C38’s down on eBay, and provided an option that wasn’t the better part of a thousand dollars for a loco.
That being said, it has the flaws Sam highlighted here, and it’s still pricey for what you get. But it has made an impact on the Australian modelling landscape, and provided modellers with something they didn’t have before: an option.
I’ll also add the 1990’s C38 you mention are extremely rare, and can only really be found on eBay or the secondhand market. You could spend all year waiting for an update Streamlined Lima C38 and you might end up paying the same as the brand new ARM (~$299AUD).
Because the Australian market is quite small, manufacturers tend to charge way more for each model as they have to recover tooling costs from smaller volumes.
This particular model would compare to a Hornby Railroad class model, although it's basically very old tooling. The C38 sells for about A$290 here.
More detailed locos can range around A$400-650. I'm trying to get an Ixion J515 J class loco which costs A$599.99 maybe you should get one 😊
Nice to see an Aussie loco running around your track regardless.
the Irish market is even smaller and yet just about every class of Irish locomotive has been released as a high quality model at a resonable price. So clearly someone is taking advantage of hobbyists Down Under.
@@ArcadiaJunctionModelTrains very true its why many of the members at my local club run American instead of Australian because its way cheaper and you get better value for money. In saying that the only worthwhile Australian company to buy from is auscision I've not had a bad loco ever from them. My arm i bought was an absolute pile of junk i laugh everytime I see "crafted in china" under the loco
I agree with everything you’ve pointed out however in Australia this is considered a budget model, I know people who’ve owned them and been quite happy with it seeing as though any other really nice high quality Aussie steam loco models are upwards of $600aud. I also agree compared to UK models of the same price it seems like a rip off but for us in Australia it’s quite revolutionary to have a new release steam loco this cheap.
Thanks for sharing, yeah that does seem to be the case! Obviously I review models from my point of view as a British person… and it was even more expensive over here by a huge amount when it first came out!
@@SamsTrains yeah converting the original UK price to aud it’s considerably higher for what it is, either way it was interesting to see someone not from Australia’s view on it.
This model is literally the worst Australian model released in the past 15 years. Typical Australian model trains are literally the exact opposite of this model. Hornby and ARM have really let Australian manufacturers down, as there were high hopes this would mean Australian models would make it into the UK and Europe. Please don’t take this model as a representative of Australia- the online store Australian Modeller offers international shipping and sometimes has sales.
Hornby didn't let anyone down, they did what the customer wanted. ARM set the spec and Hornby produced the model to it.
Great review Sam, just to mention only 4 are left in preservation, that being: 3801- Operational at the NSW Transport Museum
3813- In pieces Dorrigo NSW
3820- Static Display NSW Transport Museum
3830- Owned by the Powerhouse Musuem but static display at the NSW Transport Museum
3830 has been running within the last 5years however if its down to static thats a shame but im sure it wont be static for long. In fact I’m sure both the first and last of the series live on.
There is a very good old Ytube video NFSA (A steam train passes) set back in the 1940’s from engine shed to the days run on 3801. The driver and fireman cook bacon and eggs on the shovel.
@@MICMARKMAC Pretty sure it’s last run was around 2010. 3830 has taken 20s place in the museum currently.
You are referring to the ‘A steam train passes’ film.
Yea Dorrigo scrappers so called "Museum"
30 needs a major overhaul and new fire box and no one will provide the funds
The reason it looks small is that it is HO not 00
If you see 3801 next to Flying Scotsman when it was in Aud in the 1980s you realise howx big C38s are due to the bigger loading gauge
One of the problems I feel regarding price and quality is the extremely small market that Australian models have compared to Hornby.
No they are not, they are the same gauge.
@renown16 what are you talking about. With gauge.
The loading gauge is bigger in Aus, the track gauge is the same, standard gauge in NSW.
You can't compare an HO model and a 00 model as whist the track gauge is common ho is is 1/87 and double 00 is 1/76
If the 38 class was 00 it would be bigger than the 00 Scotsman.
The Same can be said for 0 gauge, we use 1/43 and the American use 1/48.
The only other thing is here in Aus we have 3 track gauges on the real railways.
States like Victoria and South Astralia havex5ft 3 , Queensland and have 3f 6.
Whilst standard gauge goes everywhere the legacy of 3 gauges is a business disaster.
@@Steven_Rowe yeah you're right.
@renown16 it amazing how small ho feels compared to 00.
Having said thatci modelx 0 gauge.
I recently bought the Rapido Titfield Thunderbolt set, it's tiny but also amazing quality.
The sound is unbelievable.
@@renown16 HO is 1/87 and 00 is 1/76 scale, so they aren’t the same except for the track 👍
The state of HO/OO gauge model locos is apalling lately. this model has quality and designs on par with what hornby produced nearly 20 years ago but for double the price. even a "budget" range model like Hornby Railroad will set you back at least £110 for a Loco and Tender. Shocking. (great review though, I envy your patience and self control sam xD)
haha! Even 20 years ago Hornby's steam locos were WAY better than this!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Remember the Australian market is nothing like the UK one. This thing might be cheap, but it's also half the price we pay for any other steam locomotive.
To be fair Australian prototypes are freaking expensive and made more so by our small population and even smaller modeling group , The ARM was actually a fair crack at giving beginners here a fair chance to own a model that was an Australian model and didn't break the bank and was better then the Lima one. Compared to what you are used to this is garbage but for some of us on the other side of the world this was well needed!!!
the more expensive Australian models are top notch and freaking kill it most of the time but not everyone has $600+ dollars for a steam loco so good on ARM for doing this ... yes the tender bogies are a let down bet beggars cant be choosers.
be happy your UK market is not as wreaked as our AU market is for model trains.
Sam, a few points. This loco is HO and was for the Aussie market and, at $299, comes in at well less than half the cost of its nearest competitor. Eureka models will have a rerun of their 38 class, and it will be 3 times the price. I have added DCC to mine, and it runs well even at low speed. Yes, it could be better, but it's built to a price we have not seen locally for many years. I have 12 38 class locos ranging from this one to brass PSM models worth $3,000. It's not too bad for what it is. With some detailing and a bogie kit (S55) from Ctrlp models, it's pretty good.
These 38 class models are quite popular over here in Australia and sell out fast due to being cheap and affordable, $300 being one of the cheapest new Australian models you can buy at all and atleast half the price of the next steam locomotive model. For example, a D50 class model produced by Eureka Models costs $680. Lots of people at my local train club bought these and repainted them, renumbered them etc as at this price they make a good base for building off. This is essentially the Hornby Flying Scotsman of Australian models.
Need to keep in mind that not every country has the population and market scale of the UK / US, Hornby would have sold more models of 1 varient of the Hush Hush than most Australian models sell in all their varients, thus the price represents this.
All of that said, 200 GBP was slapping additional costs to it, converting from AUD to GBP it should have costed approx 150 GBP.
The ARM C38 makes a lot more sense in the context of Eureka C38’s being the only other real option, and at a severe premium at that, or paying insane prices for 1970’s Lima C38’s.
I completely agree. Our model train market is so small and niche (with limited production runs) that prices have to be high, even for the budget model
Hmm
The chassis in this loco is made by Mehano, used to be made in Slovenia, been around for many years, it's actually not too bad a runner if you convert the tender base with a pick up kit available online. This is essential if fitting DCC and especially sound. Unfortunately here in Aus this is the cheapest loco available, on a par with the Hornby railroad Flying Scotsman.....
Never heard that before. All the labelling on this says made in China.
Sam, thanks for taking the hard knocks. What you do is truly indispensable in the hobby. 👍
Interesting video Sam; ARM are a subsidiary of Southern Model Supplies who import Hornby products into Australia, (no relation to Lima),so presumably they use the same Chinese factory as Hornby. The lack of features were to keep the price down to A$300 which is a "budget" price for a steam outline model loco in Australia.
And in the past, SMS had also been the Australian Lima distributor before the brand was absorbed by Hornby.
Hey Sam This is 1 of 4 models i own and i absolutely LOVE THIS MODEL! Don't go on hating it! I love this model and i stand my grounds!
/also, I accidently dropped this model early in its life and it survived a 1 metre fall without taking damage! this model is legendary! its so cheap for its quality $300 Aud is so good!
Had you noticed the cylinder bock on the fireman's side is cantited to an angle. Appears to me different from the other side of the loco. You should have mentioned more on the fact that the tender bogies are fixed and not independent. Keep Adventuring.
Not just my eyes playing tricks on me!
Hello Sam,
I agree with you about this model, however it is the cheapest steam H0 locomotive in Australia by a large amount. It is not the old Lima body tooling. The Lima body tooling was more accurate and has sharper detail. The rest of the old Lima model was bits from European models made by Lima. Eureka Models will be producing a rerun of their NSW 38 soon and it will cost more and will have a working headlight and a DCC sound option.
How did this get reviewed but not the Coca Cola tram? Will we be seeing that this year? I'm waiting patiently for it. :)
Why would anyone want that lol
Because it's a prototypical model unlike the Lowmac, there really was a Duewag tram painted in Coca Cola colours.
Maybe it'll come this year... maybe...
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I was about to ask that in one of the live streams recently, only just remembered about it!
@@FlyingScotFilms cheaper by around 2 to 3 times the price than another brand, suitable for beginners and others alike.
AFAIK, Australian Railway Models is a partnership between Hornby and Southern Models Supplies, who are the Australian distributor of Hornby. Hence the very Hornby look & feel.
Despite this being an all new model, the lack of lighting, fixed tender bogies & the expansion link being pivoted in the wrong spot (amongst other issues) are baffling.
This loco is a budget model in Australian steam terms, most of the premium steam locos are AU$600+. Thankfully diesels are about AU$335.
If you want to try more Australian Models, I would recommend trying either an Auscision or SDS Diesel. If I had to pick one, the Auscision NR is the one I would recommend but there is a fair bit of choice.
A note on pricing: Australian models tend to be more expensive compared to US or UK models, as less of each version is made (as few as 50 sometimes). Hence models are more expensive as the tooling costs remain the same.
Here in Australia they cost about the same as a hornby railroad tender loco, in my opinion they're worth it. I've had no problems with mine apart from the damage it got from the post. Another thing, yes they are retooled lima's
Hornby locos are what counts for budget here in AUS. Our homegrown manufacturers have been trying to make cool stuff. But it costs a lot to get them shipped back from the factories in China and tool them in the first place. SDS models and Auscision models are two of the biggest and I recommend some of their diesels over this, but you still won't like the price.
Regarding the no headlight, at the time, a lot of NSW locos didn't use headlights in the daytime. That information is from another person that reviewed this locomotive.
As with all models, there are pros and cons and compromises.
Not sure if I like the look how the coal looks though.
Got one of these myself at the beginning of the year (tho it’s the 3801 version), can’t say I’ve experienced any of these issues myself, crawls fine, no problems with glue marks, runs great, paint is fine, yeah the lamp doesn’t work, though some people like to point out that nswgr locomotives rarely ran with their lamps on as a justification, though it’s probably because this is a budget model.
I’m Australian so I’ve always wanted to see you review an Australian loco Sam. Could you do a Victorian Railways locomotive next time?
He'll be very angry when he gets one, have you seen the price and the quality of them.
I want to see him tear them apart lol
ARM dropped the ball with this class and the prior one before. Fixed bogies on tender, no leds etc. Our other manufacturers are much better, a little bit dearer, but the details and quality would give all your Hornby models are run for their money.
yeah, everything costs loads in Australia@@renown16
Hed have a heart attack if he saw an auscision model both price and quality wise
You guys are lucky to have such cheap models at hand a ready to run model in the scale i model is 1500 to 3000k for a steam loco ive even seen one sell for 5k and yet a kit is almost 700 bucks and thats 1/64 scale
There’s an American influence in the streamlined appearance. It looks to be based on the New Haven I5 class 4-6-4 passenger locomotives. Those engines were built in 1937 and only 10 were ever made. All were retired by 1951 and scrapped though. But thankfully the streamlined appearance lives on in the form of the c38, and to a lesser extent the New Zealand j class.
The designer of the C38, Harold Young, visited the New Haven RR and watched them build the I5. Then later claimed that the C38 was an entirely Australian designed loco, and made no credit to the I5, which is a near identical twin.
@@OwenBudd1I'd also like to add that the prototype drafts of the C38 had them seen with similar side plates to the NYC J3a "Dreyfuss Hudson" below the cab before it was changed to a smoother flowing step down like design you see now.
@@clockwork3494 yes, I believe that the designer visited a few railroads in the US just prior to designing the C38, so it seems he drew inspiration from a few locomotives in service at that time.
Be interesting to compare an Aucision XPT against a modern British HST (and even the old Hornby export XPT!) but 1400AUD for the 7 car XPT set might blow the whole 2024 budget.....
Fun fact: the C38’s design was heavily influenced by the Pennsylvania Railroad’s K4 pacific locomotive, and the C38 was essentially a scaled-down k4. The k4 had 80 inch driving wheels, while the C38 had 69 inch driving wheels. Many elements were copied over from the k4, including the belpaire firebox, boiler design, and cylinder assembly.
I rember reading some where but the closes to uk practice of the 38.class would be a small wheel Brittania on steroids
It's currently on the Game website described as a' Lima ARM' product at £105.98, 'was £132.98'...
Sam. If you are able to get an Auscision Victorian Railways B class then it may be interesting to compare it with your Triang Railways blue and gold R.159 doubled ended diesel to show how much progress in acurracy and quality has been made. Even though the Triang model was released in 1958, it had working headlights and lit cabs at both ends. Pat Hamminds books records only a handful of locomotives outsold it. Americans are amazed to see a double ended F7 running on six wheel all powered bogies.
A class introduced in 1953 and a few still running on mainlines. Are there any mainline diesels that can match that?
$300 AUD is quite normal for Australian DC locomotives heck some locomotives are even $335 AUD nowadays so it is understandable why it could be expensive.
Hi Sam, great review and a shame to see that you got such a poor model. I have 3 of these (3801, 3803 and 3806) and they are all decent for the price I paid. However as others have said, these are very cheap compared to other Aussie Steam prototypes, so perhaps I'm too easy on them haha. ARM have certainly incorporated some of the constructive criticism on their most recent release, i.e. proper bogies on the tender, however still have a number of design issues the modeller is required to fix. Will jump on the bandwagon and suggest Auscision, Casula Hobbies (Z-19 or Z-12 class steam) or SDS are worth a look. Mike
Hi Sam I don’t model NSW railways, but model Queensland Railways in HOn3-6 on 12mm gauge track. Which most RTR models are produced by Wuiske Models or Southern Rail in both HO or Hon3-5. Southern Rail also model other Australian Railways. As with most of our hobbies here in Australia we generally have to pay more due to import costs, but then hobbies are worth it. That particular model C38 seems rather outdated.
This model should be in the 52 spot because it had a score of 4.89 and the Bachmann model had a score of 4.93
Yeah you're right - I'm not sure how I managed that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sad thing is, this is actually cheap by Australian model railway standards. Like, by an absolute Mile, for steam anyway.
I see this on the shelf at the hobby shop and it looks cheap, even from a distance. That's a pity because there are some absolutely lovely Australian steam models around now - The Phoenix D3 class and Ixion J Class. Not cheap, but very nice.
Like the Phoenix SDS D3 4-6-0 in Canadian Red that Like Towan featured on the first of his recent layout building videos. Many wondered what that great looking model was.
Everyone and their mother is pointing out that railway models are expensive in Australia and rightly so, but it also goes the other way too, in Japan. They do N-scale instead, but for example the Kato C62 (large, late era, steam express loco) costs the equivalent of just 60 GBP. If you buy from a local retailer outside of Japan however this will likely more than double, and you're experiencing a similar issue of buying foreign models here with the C38.
When it comes to Aussie stuff, I'm aware Auscision tends to be the gold standard, even if their stuff runs upwards of $300 (US). Needless to say, Australian model trains aren't cheap, and that's before import duties. A shame, really. I might primarily collect Conrail, but I wouldn't mind having an NR Class or two in either original or Pacific National livery.
This locomotive is ARMs first attempt at a locomotive, there second locomotive the K class has released now. Many companies have released the 38 in Australia in kit form and RTR and most cost $600-$1000 now. If you want to try a very Australian diesel try auscision as well as SDS models (have there 81 class and it’s amazing). Could also try idr models there x200 is good. If you want aus steam there is the wombat models 30 class
I'm from Sydney Australia and I can tell you that if this model was produced in N scale I would honestly pay double the amount wanted for this HO scale model. I am a vivid advocate for N scale and it still annoys me that HO scale is the absolute king of railway model scales. 38 class locomotives for N scale are like hens teeth - impossible to acquire. 3801 (bullet nose in green livery), looks amazing and I would honestly pay $700+ for one DCC if I could get one!! Why is it that I can I easily buy Auscision brand NR class diesel locomotives for my Indian Pacific train yet absolutely nothing available from Auscision in Australian steam for N scale. Insert puzzled look on my face. 😮
I love all steam streamliners, so would like this, even with imperfections.
Well that's good! They need someone to buy them ;)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
it certainly was a surprise to see a review from you of a model from my home country! I work for a retailer in Australia that sells these models, but have never bought one because I mainly buy British stuff. It was interesting to see this model reviewed under your criteria, and the price you paid is certainly more than I'd be willing to spend. It's hard to believe that shipping and import costs can accrue such a price disparity but I suppose this does give you a taste of what buying British models in Australia can be like!
If I ever were to get an aussie steamer, it would be the SAR 520. Although I have no clue if a model of it exists
Ahh interesting - I'll have to look those up!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
520s can be bort as a kit
In the eighties a Korean Brass made HO SAR 520 was manufactured by ALCO the Australian Locomotive Company in limited numbers.
They were about $700 then but they are so sought after and high standard that they go for $2000 second hand.
Not made for the kiddies toy market though.
I'd love to see you do a review on 3801 done by a reputable company. You could even run it beside the Scotsman as they did during Scotsmans visit to Australia
I joined the NSWGR in 1988. I managed to get aboard the Scotsman one night in the shed at Eveleigh when she was out here! The driver I was working with wasn't impressed with it, said the 38's were much better.
You should try Auscision Models, they seem to make some great Australian models, much better than Hornby, oops I mean Australian Railway Models. This thing is made in the same factory as Hornby stuff in case you are wondering. 🤣
Yeah I should - I have heard great things about Auscision!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have a 73 class. Great little loco
Most of my loco fleet is from Auscision and they're definitely great
!00% agree... Auscision are pretty much the king brand when it comes to Aussie locomotives and rolling stock. My N scale NR class loco's are amazingly detailed. Just a pity that their N scale range is extremely limited with NO steam loco's at all.
I got that model but I might tell you that the bogies on the tender don't turn they're stuck on leaving the wheels to have little movement. There's one green one of 3803 that's a LIMA brand which has better momentum than the Australian Railway Models.
ARM (aka Southern Model Supplies) seem to have had exclusive distribution rights for Hornby in their territory so it’s perhaps not surprising that Hornby were interested to a reciprocal arrangement
One of many things we can blame Southern Models for in Australia. Part of the reason local UK modellers source so much from the UK.
@@johnd8892 Hatton's used to be my LHS for decades until they annoyed Bachmann. Now I go to Sheffield. When the price at my local shop here in Brisbane is twice the price..
Hey Sam. Thanks for the review. I was debating splashing out for this as an absolute treat but after this I think I can hold off. My great great grandfather used to drive these trains, may have even driven this very one so it’s nice to see you review it regardless. A few months ago I got to sit inside the cab of its sister 3801 at Sydney Central Station, an experience which was so wonderful after its many years of absence since I last saw it when I was a child in 2007. Hopefully we get some more cheaper Australian trains soon. Merry Christmas and a happy new year from Sydney!
There's one C38 that's running, no. 3801. That locomotive is to Australia what Flying Scotsman is to the UK.
Ahh fantastic - I'd love to see the real thing! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey Sam, I actually bought a similar model but it was 3801 number and different Very livery. It did not have any of the floors that this had and was over all an amazing model. Keep in mind this was bought from the model railway shop down the road.
Decent review overall Sam, only seen one other review of one of these C38 locomotives but it was the green one that you had cancelled, very interesting being able to get it from Game but nowadays they do seem to do a variety of things other than video games now.
Thanks David - yeah I suppose they have to - most gaming sales are digital now, so it makes sense for them to diversify!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
"Bananas upwards." I have a new favorite word. "I was grilling hotdogs hoping they'd fit in the buns okay, but they've gone all banana on me." Lol
hahaha!!!
You were correct when you thought this was a re-use of the old Lima tooling. I think the connection to Hornby is that they own the tooling. Personally I think it’s decent for the price. It’s by far the cheapest Australian steam loco on the market (most others being $600 plus). I personally own a brass 38 which I paid over AUD1000 for, and love to bits. It is a beautiful model full of detail
I don’t agree with this being a Lima Retool, if you put the two side by side they’re entirely different. The Lima C38’s body is a 2-part construction with the smoke box being a seperate part, the level of detail on the ARM body is lightyears above the Lima body. The only thing they share, in my opinion, is they’re both models of a C38. If it’s a retool, then it is one that has involved re-designing the body entirely from the ground up so at the end up with something else entirely.
That being said, the ARM model has flaws. But I don’t believe it’s because they’re using a Lima model as the basis.
@@OwenBudd1 happy to stand corrected (it’s only what I’ve heard, never seen them side by side). Maybe they used the Lima tooling as a basis and then upgraded it?
@@1234mallard I probably need to correct myself also, the C38’s I have are the unstreamlined versions. I did own one of the updated Lima Streamlined C38’s, but sold it recently. The streamlined Limas however have identical chassis and mechanisms to the unstreamlined versions, and share all other parts, so I would be surprised if they had used much of the Lima body, beyond rough dimensions etc. And there is still a lot more detail, and better defined, on the ARM models than the old Limas.
Now I wish I held onto that Lima and compared it to a new ARM streamlined!
@@1234mallard Both versions are new tooling not the original Lima models.
Maybe it was not the best bargain, but who knows? Maybe next will be cheaper yet better quality. Thanks for another video. One of a few things that makes me smile, even with the fact that I have serious depression. I really appriciate that. I love the format od your video's and I'm trying to look at every part ss if I had to do it myself and that makes me admire your patience and the effort you put into it. Just wow. Have a great day Sam and keep up the amazing work!! 😊
Has nobody spotted the cylinders drooping down towards the front? Not even close to being parallel to the slide bar and footplate.
ARM are apart of southern model supplies, which is the Australian distributor for Hornby. I believe they got Hornby to tool it for them . They also work with Hornby/Scalextric to bring Australian car into the Scalextric range.
I was there when the 3801 was in steam after she finished her overhaul (mind you, i kind broke lockdown rule's too - but i had to do shopping) at Sydney's Central train station...."Henry" green on the 3801 or the 3803's black, if you ask me i like the green more.
Mine died, but not to it’s fault, there was a sudden surge in power from the shitty controller I was using, and it fried the capacitor. It is a model I will buy again. The cheapest Aussie tender locomotive is that or a Bachmann R.O.D 2-8-0.
Looks cool. But it does have so defects. But I really do like this train. I might get one soon when I get more money. Looks lovely. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur the best. U never disappoint
Thanks a lot for the kind words - appreciate it my friend!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
In my hometown of Brisbane Australia the average price of the model is about $300 Australian
Hi Sam, I purchased the "non-streamlined" ARM 38 class and had DCC sound fitted, as well as an LED headlight, by the retailer. With DCC it crawls very well. There is a company called CTL-P who make a swivelling bogie conversion as well as some other bits to make this a better model, but of course this all adds to the cost. I bought 3801, the streamlined class-leader and am yet to convert it. Cheers!
Fantastic review, a shame about the poor loco, surprised they did this tbh! But doesn't surprise me since Hornby was involved!
Thank you! I'm surprised too... but you're right that's a good point!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hornby wasn't in the development as far as I know, they just helped market it.
Oh shut up you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Ime in AUS and I bought one from the Bathurst rail museum, I think it was $400. Bought it for a keepsake and have never run it. The prob in AUS is it’s a very small population, so models are very low volume and extremely high prices. Certainly a huge disincentive for enthusiasts here in AUS
I always wanted this as a kid, but my parents said no. I know why now. It'd be cheaper to build it from scratch with all the standard mechanisms. Any chance of making a 3D printed engine mould of this on your shop? 😅
18:00 NSW resident here and while you may not like how it doesn't have a working headlamp, this is prototypical. During daylight, all NSWGR steam locomotives run with their headlamps turned off.
Also for the NSWGR (1924-onwards) classification system, we don't use the letters at all. Engines like No. 3803 here would just be referred to as a "38 class" (the letters were for documenting reasons). Just to add here but there's a reason for its price is because in Australia alongside the company's 55 class 2-8-0, the 38 class is the *cheapest* Aussie steam locomotive as steam over here is expensive as hell because they're produced in limited runs, not mass-produced like UK model firms do.
Basically, the standards for Australian HO is different for British OO.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't do for an "outstanding" video, but can you check out the Del Prado N scale models? They are pretty well detailed, and from what i've seen pretty cheap. Also i heard they can be converted to be motorized.
Yessss !!! My favourite, The Hornby Merchants Navy Class makes a return !!! Sad that didtnt get to see enough of it in this video. I want to see more of the Merchants Navy Class !!!
Also great video Sam. Not so great model though 😅
Is it me or are the cylinders tilting downwards from the front whilst the slide bars slope upwards. The left hand side looks worse than the right side.
I noticed that too, but I wasn't quite sure whether it's wonky cylinders or an illusion because of the warped running plate. Of course, these things were also designed to run upside-down...
@@rwjenkinsHaha, as always I can't see something Aussie related without the mention of upside down jokes.
To answer you both though as an Aussie who was able to see 3801 in person at Junee, no, the cylinders shouldn't be drooping downwards as they appear on the model.
I know some engines do angle the cylinders like the 9F class, but the C38's had them parallel to the running plate, you can look up images on google for extra clarification but yeah, definitely another defective part of the model.
Well roasted Sam very appropriate for a Christmas turkey! Keep the humour coming please😂
haha thanks Anthony - appreciate it my friend!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
It's nice to see the ARM 38 reviewed here, but one must consider the context of Australian railway modelling. The Eureka 38s (when they are produced) are- although a superb model- over $700. Old Lima 38s (modified or not) often make more than $200 in auctions on eBay. The market for Australian models is unfortunately smaller than those for British, American, European or Japanese model- therefore the costs are higher; this being a major reason why I predominantly model British OO. However, the ARM 38s (and the fact that the "cheaper" outline models are drastically becoming more expensive) have evened out the playing field somewhat. A comparison to the Hornby A2 would be a fair exercise- here the A2 generally goes for $320, but sometimes from $280-449, whereas the 38 I've seen from about $260-350. Both have their shortcomings, but the fact the ARM 38 can pretty much go toe-to-toe with a Hornby model's market value is insane value for an Australian model to have (that's one reason why my father and I collected all five they released- they also released them sequencially not all at once).
Thanks for sharing - yeah this is true, but at the same time it wouldn’t have cost them much extra to make this a bit better… an LED in the front for instance would literally cost pence. It seems to me that they’ve taken advantage of the high price of most Australian models by introducing something as cheap and nasty as possible and making it seem like good value in comparison!
It is priced $285.00 on the Australian Modeller website
I've got one of these, and in my opinion it looks alright, but it should not be $300 for a basic locomotive. Though I hope it doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth for Australian models, because from what I've seen in reviews, the quality is top notch and many come DCC fitted with sound. And something that might shock you, $300 is cheap for ready to run steam locomotives in Australia, it's actually the cheapest on the market. Though if you can get your hands on one of the more quality models, I'm sure you'll be happy with it, and about the fixed bogies, there is a 3D Printed kit available by CRTL P models where you can get swiveling bogies on it and a proper Kade coupling which is something I've put on my model.
Great review, I think this model would definitely have scored higher if it was at a much more reasonable price.
Yep exactly how I felt when I bought mine when arm first released the c38 in 2020 in standard unstreamlined guise and it was an absolute nightmare. When it arrived it had busted details, no couplers fitted at all, no led light, a very poor running motor, poor running due to dodgy pick ups and no tender pick ups and fixed tender bogies that had been cast wrong as it was derailing the tender on straight pieces of track. Arm never got back to me regarding the warranty so I rebuilt it to a standard I'd expect for the $300aud I paid. At least you got a coupler lol. There's an 8 pin socket that was also faulty on mine so I had to delete that and hard wire the loco dc. In future I shall keep away from any and all arm products. Also sometimes the pilot bogie on the loco will jump the rails on occasion causing nasty derailments at speed.
The valve gear looks great on this loco. This would be a neat budget engine if it were priced a lot lower. Only thing that really bothers me is the fixed tender trucks, which is an odd unnatural feature.
Great review as always!
Yes, the fixed tender trucks would make me scratch my chin in puzzlement.
@johnkolb6717 The next model they made had separate bogies.
Not to ask stupid questions, but did you perhaps think the loco felt small because it’s an HO loco rather than a OO one?
Yeah that’s definitely a factor - but I have plenty of HO locos, and this is still a small cute size for a Pacific!
Sam you need to check out Argyle locomotives in g gauge thats something totally different c38,puffing Billy expensive but lovely 😂😂, cheers lad,enjoy the rest of your year,merry Xmas
Australian models are allways overpriced, this model is one of the cheaper H0 models, most don't live up to standards really - hence why I've purchased so few. Hopefully one day Australian model manufacturers get the memo. Great video, Sam, maybe review something Western Australian next time? (JK, theres only one ready to run WA loco, that being the WAGR L class diesel - and I think that would be difficult to get in the UK.
Despite its flaws in detail, there are many, I love to run the pair I own, especially the non streamlined one which looks great head on. By the way ARM’s next model, a vintage goods engine is believed to be of much better detail and design, fingers crossed.
Yeah I'm gonna get the D55, and I love my little 3806 it was my first model.
I think you just upset all us NSWGR modellers.
The ARM 38 was a godsend for the hobby. A basic starter NSWGR loco. Which helped younger people to get into the hobby.
$300 Australian is extremely cheap and a great starting point to make it into a much more detailed model for people who want to put the effort in.
People in the UK have had things too good for too long on the in the model train world, and really don't understand how good they have it.
A high quality NSWGR steam locomotive is on average $600 to $800 Australian.
Excellent review Sam and certainly a model I would not pay 229 pounds for but certainly is an attractive looking locomotive and with some very minor upgrades like tender pickups and DCC sockets and working headlight would make it worth a higher price
£229. I wouldn't pay £29 for it. I'm not even sure I would keep it if it came out of a Christmas cracker, but at least I wouldn't feel ripped off.
Packaged like Hornby, written like Hornby (The paperwork is all in Hornby font and orientation), and priced like a Hornby, it's probably a Hornby.
Maybe the same factory in China?
It is Hornby, they produce them for ARM as SMS (who is ARM) is their Australian distributor.
3801 is actually in mainline condition after a 12 year restoration and regularly does excursions across the network
The quality of mine is amazing it was my first model and as a 10 year old back then it went through hell, i remember dropping it and it's still fine, still my best performing loco and my favourite other then the R,O,D 2-8-0.
BLIMEY, WHAT A SPECTACULARLY DECENTLY WONDERFULLY WONDERFUL REVIEW DESPITE MULTIPLE ISSUES THAT YOU'VE SERIOUSLY POINTED OUT FOR SURE!!!
WHOA, BLIMEY, NOW, THAT'S WHAT I SERIOUSLY DO ACTUALLY CALL SPEEDY!!!!
hahaha thanks David!
I bought the Lima version of this in the 90s. 3802 is the number. I got it for £20.
hey sam what were the red mk1 looking coaches in the siding at 24:34?
It's interesting with your review and perspective. Here in Australia a top quality steam locomotives is usually $600 to $800 in the Australian prototype. This is due to small production runs for the Australian market. So with this model being $300 (half the price of other steam models), comparatively its a bargain and an introductory model. It's interesting to hear you say you expected lighting and tender pick ups, I was expecting pretty much what it is and I forked out $300 happily. Again our pricing is reflective of our market which is essentially a small, boutique market of models that slots in between large production slots.
Put it this way, to have added an LED, tender pickups, and other minor upgrades would have cost them about £10 extra per unit. Because of the shoddiness of this model, the UK price has now been slashed from £229 to £105, representing a loss of over £120 per unit. I would suggest that had they spent a little extra on making the model decent, their sales may have performed better. I for one would have given a much more positive review. The reduction of price by well over 50% does not indicate remotely decent sales. Even the very worst British models rarely, if not never, have to be discounted by that much in order to sell.
@@SamsTrains Don't get me wrong, I think your review is correct and I agree with it in the context of your market. However in the context of our Australian market, this is a bargain/hobby entry product at that price which shows the disparity of the Australian market vs the British market. I wish we could get top quality Australian prototype steam locos for $300AUD, but that's the power of economies of scale. Our production runs are around 1000 units, whereas British and American production runs are 10,000 to 20,000 units. I agree, I wish it were better, I was just giving you the context of this model in the context of ots market. Love the review and I wish it were cheaper or better quality, I definitely agree with you!
Oh for sure, things are very different over here - and I know what you mean when you say I reviewed this from a British context... it's just I can only review things from my point of view! That said, most British production runs are nowhere near 10,000 units these days!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fair review, Sam. I'm a great fan of the C38s, having had the thrill of travelling behind one. But I didn't buy AMR's model because I doubted its quality. (No review in Australia's leading model railway magazine, and AMR's ads lacked essential information about its mechanism, pick-up, etc.). It seems I was right. I have the 1996 Lima, but that was nowhere near the best contemporary standard. Another Australian manufacturer recently reissued their C38 which looks to be much better quality, but unfortunately the price was over Au$700!
I've seen this model loads of time in the shop and running by other model train users. It's a nice model but what really bothers me is that the bogies on the tender do not pivot and is fixed in place, which is a huge "operational nightmare" compared to the original Lima HO C38 locomotive that has the swivelling tender bogies.
There is an HO kit made exclusively for Australian Railway Models HO Class C38, this kit has the tender chassis and a pair of bogies so that the tender can have pivoting tender bogies to replace the rigid tender bogie.
That's my input as I saw the model before.
This seems interesting… I’ve heard Aucision is good. I’ll get the CAD and some photos to you sometime soon.
Yeah so have I - I'll have to try something from them!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Auscision is great sounthen is good eureka when they run are good
Auscision is great, but diesel only. HO scale Australian steam is a very expensive thing to get into.
@@leonkernan Totally correct. Auscision only do diesels. Australian steam will cost between £300 - £400
@@leonkernan I'd imagine that you're either referring to brass, or just limited production run plastic? Brass would probably be the way to go anyways for steam. Its not just Australia where getting anything pre-built properly & with good quality is a challenge...
What's wrong with "8 pins" ? For something basic like this loco an 8-pin decoder is more than enough, and it easy and cheap to pick one, from a huge selection.
Don't they say 21pins are harder to blow up?
@@vincebagusauskas278 My personal experience is: NO!
@SamsTrains the ARM got 4.89 and the Streetcar got 4.93, so shouldnt it be the worst and not second to worst?
Also EFE J94 was redeemed, you need to give it an apology
Also noticed this... This one got a worst score than the one that had a unfortunate meeting with a hammer. 😂
I have to add the C38 class locomotive, whether Lima or ARM to the list of locos that are way out of my price range, and I would really love to own one.
I have very fond memories of taking my small son down to the level crossing at Acacia Ridge back in the 1980's to see the two most memorable train visits to Brisbane, the LNER 4472 Flying Scotsman and preserved NSWGR C38 class 3801 as they steamed into town.
Hi Sam
Yeah I bought the original release when these came out Via Hornby a couple of years ago and the first thing I thought was its a Hornby Railroad loco, quite disgraceful for 160 quid at the time. I've seen the black one at Game now for £105 if they had been this price to begin with I wouldnt have a reason to say anything bad about it. Just seen seen the score you gave it doesnt it mean its the worst loco of the year?? as it seems to have a lower score than that railbus thing you reviewed. anyway thanks again for the review :)
This is the cheapest steam locomotive you’ll be able to buy in Australia. The ARM C38s usually go for $289/£153. If you’re looking for other manufacturers they go for upwards of $500/£260 so it was a welcome bargain down here. Sad you don’t enjoy it as much as we do!
Sorry this came too late to make the Top 5 Worst locos, but maybe it’ll get a dishonorable mention in next year’s video.
Have a great day, and I’ll be sure to comment on the Top 5 Best!
haha yeah - really didn't think it'd be that bad... but I was wrong! Yeah I think I will mention it in next years!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)