So did I but my dad didn't work there. My ex wife is from Blackburn and if my memory is at all functioning, was it on the right of the Ring road as you went towards Clitheroe?
Used my studio monitor headphones during demo. Here's the top four which impressed my musical ears the most: 1. Mullard Anos Blackburn (RCA LOGO) - Nice full tone. Vey clean highs, nice bottom end. Indeed more gain. 2. Brimar - Wow. Great full well rounded tone!! 3. Phillips Mini Watt (Holland Made) - Another 12AX7 tube which has well rounded tone, clarity. Nice bottom end! 4. Jan Sylvania - Ballsy sounding. Well saturated bottom end, great clarity. Thanks for taking the time to demo all those 12AX7 tubes, Pete. Cheers.
I could hear a difference even on my cell phone. There were a few that sounded thinner than others, and some were more gainy than others. I kept rewinding the video and re-comparing them over and over. Thanks for a cool comparison. I must be a true tone nerd I guess...
This an old video but it’s relevant to me at the moment. Am I the only one that loved the Tung Sol? That one stood out to me for some reason. I really liked the tone. Also that first Mullard was nice
I appreciate the test, Pete. I've designed a lot of tube amp circuitry, and I'm very critical of sounds of 12ax7's in particular. The internal structures of these tubes are visibly different, so why would they -not- have electrical variance. Sometimes major differences turn up in certain circuits. For example, the old BK Butler low voltage Tube Drivers do not work at all with some tubes that sound good at higher voltages. Those often used Yugoslavian EI's (your comments were exactly correct about having to select those for microphonics). Telefunkens can sound good in clean hifi circuits, but do not necessarily overdrive gracefully. (Original) Sovteks are often a miserable choice for overdrive, but they had less crosstalk between the two sides of the tube (yes, that's a thing), which made them useful in some circumstances. Anyway, this was a very ambitious venture, so thanks for taking the time.
That first Mullard sounded amazing. I've been using the CV4004 in most of my amps recently but I'm also a fan of the LPS. I always put an LPS in the PI. Thanks for doing this. Total nerdom....love it!!
@@XChristianNoirX I haven't thought about this stuff in years, BUT I recall that the REAL thing you want in the PI is a tube that is balanced on both sides since each side is getting sent to half the power section (on a amp with 2 power tubes, the signal from each side of your PI is going to each power tube). Regarding the LPS, if my 21 year-old memory is correct, Mike Soldano told me that the LPS had something to do with cathode heaters I think? For example, only two of the four 12AX7s in my soldano astroverb are 12AX7LPS, the other two are just LP. I have no idea what I'm talking about, BUT regarding an LPS for the PI... all I know is that you want a _balanced_ tube where each half puts out the same amount in the PI so that each of your power tubes gets the same strength signal.
For my ears I'd say the Mullards, the Holland made tubes and the bugle boys just had the tinge more of warm crackle that inspires! The biggest stand-out was the quieter less-gainy tubes like the Telefunken and EH. Great Tube Shoot Out!
I think the main difference is in the crackle, perhaps the frequency of it. Some crackle hard and high for my ears, some are warmly and nicely crackling. Liked those bugle boys especially.
Thanks Pete, the differences can be heard, but RUclips does alter the sound significantly. Love the fullness of the Mullard and teeth of the Telefunken. I've always been a fan of the Amperex tubes too, I'm lucky enough to have a few bugle boys in my stash. I have a 65 Bassman that I spent 2 days on trying out a ton of preamp, phase inverter and power tubes to make it sound the way I like it. So much so that people ask who modded it.
My ears leaned into the original Mullards in this "test" . It was nice to hear another person test these out. I have gone loopy in the past trying to determine or look for differences myself in my single ended amp with 12ax, au or at valves. In this case, They're all not massively different to me, but there's a difference.
I’m a fan of the long plate Sylvania too. I’ve never been a fan of any short plate RCA’s. Get ahold of a late 1950’s long black plate RCA 12ax7 and you’ll never go back. Another amazing tube is the long black plate Raytheon’s they are incredible. Unfortunately both of these tubes were made around 1958-1960 and are expensive. But that’s what I run in my Super Reverb and I have at least 60 different NOS & ANOS tubes that I’ve tried in it.
Nice effort! I love the way you used you looper to get the exact same guitarl playing for each sample. I wish people doing amp mods would do this. That said, this reminds me of a wine tasting. I love it, but by the third or 5th or 6th cab tasting, I can't tell the difference or remember why I like the 3rd one.
I have boxes full of old tubes. Some of my favourites are the Mullards, the RCA's, but my absolute favourite is the TESLA E83CC, Magic in V1 and in the phase inverter. I like the RCA's in the distorting stages (or V2 in a plexi type circuit to clarify, since the phase inverter also clips in this type of amp), adds some bite and harmonics, but in a way that doesn't come across as harsh.
I tried listening blind and there were definitely some that made me audibly yell, "YEAHHHH!' Great to hear so many back-to-back. Thanks for doing this!
Thanks for all the massive work Pete. In the end you have to listen in a quiet environment on a really good system or isolated in headphones, which proves the point that in the mix or on the radio, or in the club you will never hear the difference. Paying ton's of money for that special cryogenic tube is a waste of money that could have been better spent on speakers or a different cab where you can really hear the difference.
Pete...if you read this...thanks. Your content I recently came across and have binged a bit. The content is always interesting and really good quality. Thanks dude.
I've made a similar test some years ago. I even bought a tube tester and tested each tube before recording it. Similar conclusions... Mullards are just amazing in Marshalls (and in every amp, as I tested them in a BF Bandmaster and a Dual Recto). Most european old tubes are great, being the RFT the most dark and compressed (great choice for a 2203/jcm800). Sylvanias are the best among US made by far. I've sold all my GE after the test (I even prefer modern tubes). Great Job Pete!
Awesome! Tung sol 12ax7 in V1, and older SED Winged "C" 6L6GC's in the power section for me, but I will experiment more with the 12AX7 after watching this... Love the Amp!
I literally couldn't find a single thing wrong with this video. I'm not even a guitarist and I'm loving this. The playing was actually pretty good. You putting this together, with the explanations/information with each tube, excellent
Great playing as always Pete and nice comparision! Since I am from Holland, I like the Amperex and Philips Miniwatt most. They used to make them at the Philips plant in Heerlen. Also the Mullards (Blackburn) are great! For some reason, I never connected with the German manufacturers. However the SIEMENS ECC801S BVA (Bundeswehr) are great for the phase inverter position. I use that in a 1966 Bandmaster and sounds killer!
Those EI yugoslavian valve had a nice fat tone. The last one was great. All of em good as long as they work. Surprised at how good the Ecc82 sounded(12au7). Thanks for opening up the doors on those lesser known brands that are pretty amazing.
Love these videos! My favourites were the Phillips Miniwatt, JAN Sylvania and I really also liked the reissue Mullard CV4004. Wasn't a fan of the Telefunken in the Marshall.
Thank you, Pete, for the great comparison. I think the differences are subtle but they are there. I tend to like Telefunken and Mullard's Blackburn tubes.
Cheers Pete , I realise this is 2 years ago but my custom made amp has just lost sound which I'm figuring is a tube so the tube shoot out has been helpful 🙏🙏
This was like 30 years of my life experience of preamp tubes condensed into 20 minutes. The EH's have been my fav for 14 years. My RCA's and Sylvainia's have all expired or sold with the amp. So it was cool to hear them all in a true AB comparison, not from my memory over the years. Great comparison!
Hell yes. This just reaffirms my love for Bugle Boys. I dig mine out of old broken bakelite radios, film projectors and tape machines that I find at flea markets.
Hello there. Great comparison. I have a bunch of Japanese Matsushita made preamp and power tubes. Different types and branded RCA, Sylvania, Bell & Howell, GE, all great preamp tubes made in Japan set up by Phillips. Don't hear too much about these tubes. Maybe that is a good thing as you can find them priced pretty reasonably.
I appreciate how you start by saying the sound is very subtle. I kind of feel the same about tubes in that when it comes to tone, there's bigger fish to fry. I buy good tubes but don't dig in too much more.
Thank you for doing this. I would have to say Mullard.. and Bugle Boy. I am using my tubes for a preamp and compressor... Mullard for Preamp and a Telefunken for Compressor.. I need to the Siemens triple Mica.. You Rock!!!
Awesome to nerd out on a Saturday afternoon!...it won't translate as well over RUclips,but the difference in sound (and feel) is pretty clear in person...the better tubes just have more complexity and an airy '3D' vibe...nice job!
Great demonstration Pete! My 79’ JMP and I like the old British and German made tubes the most. However I’ve been using the reissue Mullards with great results.
Thanks to this video, I took the plunge through this rabbit hole. I started by purchasing two used Sylvania Long Grey Plate 12ax7s, and a used Amperex Globe Logo 12ax7. The Globe Logo had a loud buzz when installed in the V1 slot of my '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, which meant I lost about $75 right at the start. Not deterred, I put one of the used Sylvania 12ax7s in the V1 slot of my '65 Princeton RI, which didn't make a big difference but did give me slightly more headroom. The other used Sylvania 12ax7 went into my Deluxe, and was a noticeable improvement over the original GT/JJ 12ax7. I then bought a ANOS JAN Sylvania 12ax7 ($70) and a NOS JAN Sylvania 12ax7 ($130!) and put the ANOS in my '68 Custom Pro Reverb and the NOS in the '68 Deluxe Reverb, both in the V1 slot. I noticed a big improvement in both amps over the originals (GT/JJ Slovak 12ax7s). The CDR actually sounds better than before when using it as a keyboard amp (less distortion with a piano patch), which to me was indicative of improved dynamic range. A couple of months later, I found a used Raytheon Long Black Plate 12ax7 with low noise test results from a dealer in Iowa. I put it in the V1 slot of my '59 Bassman LTD along with new JJ 6L6GCs (the amp had 500+ hours on the power tubes, and had begun to get slightly mushy). The Bassman has always sounded good, and I didn't notice as much improvement in the sound when compared with the original Russian 12ax7s. By comparison, the improvement in the deluxe was night and day.
What a great comparison! Of course we are talking about nuance here, and honestly I wouldn' t do that if not mandatory for a replacement, so I thank you for doing this tor US!❤️ About the tubes, once I listened to 3m Branded Mullard One i set It as a reference, It screamed " Malcolm Young and Ronno!" to me!❤️
Great vid! I'm sure it was time-consuming and I commend you on your patience. It helped to guide me thru my tube selection process! I recently had my '72 Super Lead retubed and biased with Tung-Sol EL34B's and I am very pleased with them. They have a nice wide tonal range and a very clear midrange similar to old-production Mullard's. (See Pete's comparison of EL34's.) I've swapped around a few different new stock/reissue 12AX7's in the V1 and V2 positions to hear what differences that would result in. Changing tubes in the V1 position obviously made the biggest differences. At the 2 opposite ends of the tonal spectrum of the ones I tried were the Tung-Sol 12AX7 and the Mullard 12AX7. The Tung-Sol's had the deepest bass and highest highs and the least amount of midrange presence. They were fairly bright sounding in my amp and had a sort of sizzle in the high end. The Mullard's had the biggest and most complex midrange at the expense of some low and high end compared to the Tung-Sol's with slightly lower gain. Right now, I have a Mullard in V1 and a JJ ECC803s Gold Pin in the V2 and PI positions and I'm probably going to stick with that configuration because of the great midrange character the Mullard has and I didn't really care for that sizzle produced by the Tung-Sol. FYI, I liked the Tung-Sol 12AX7 a lot more in the V2 position than in V1. Both seemed like well-constructed, low-noise tubes.
So I have a few of these old Silvertone 1482 amps. About 20 years ago I picked up an old TV repair man toolbox at a garage sale that was full of tubes. In the box I found 4 NOS Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7's. Put one in my old Silvertone amp and I could not believe how much better it sounded. I tried several other new tubes as well but man those old Amperex tubes sounded awesome!
Pete! I literally just did a mini version of your shootout with my '72 Superlead and about 10 different 12AX7's. My Sylvania was low output as well and the RCA just didn't sound "right" in the Marshall but my blackface Showman loves it. Much like you I prefer the British tubes for British amps. It makes sense because that's what they were using when they voiced them. Mullard Blackburn and Bugle Boy all the way. Just fantastic! And the riff was awesome. Thank you.
Old Stock: The Mullards all sound great. I also really liked the sound of the Brimar and the Amperex Globe Logo. New Stock: The Mullard 12AX7 Reissue and the RFT. I was kind of surprised to hear you say you didn't care for it, I thought it was pretty killer but I was listening specifically for what I'm looking for myself. ;) I'm not going to lie and say that wasn't some serious ear burn, but I found that going back and listening to small sections and comparing that initial lick really help put them into perspective.
Thanks for the Video Pete, loved it and I especially appreciated hearing your thoughts on them as well. Some channels just let you decide and don't say anything, but I prefer to hear your feedback as well as you're in the room. Peace my Canadian Prairie Brother!!
mullard reissue, new tungsol and so on are basically sovtek, they re made in that factory and selected for different specs i couldn't appreciate the small differences between the tubes (except when you put the 12au7),even with good earphones...said so.... in real life in my fender i prefer something like electro harmonix (sovtek) in v1, in my 5e3 jj 12ay7 and 5751 it's good ,sylvania and ge are quiet , old italian made rca or marconi are good and still cheap, and reliable...some of the european nade ecc83 are a bit noisy and flash on filaments...but i haven't been lucky founding a good one maybe👍🏻 Good Job Pete, i enjoyed the video a lot🙏
👍🇺🇲❤GREAT DEMO MR. PETE.......I JUST FINISHED RE-TUBING BOTH MARSHALL DSL 's ( 15 HOURS OF MY TIME )......I LOVE THE EHX RFT STYLE POWER TUBES ( ONLY IF ITS A PROFESSIONALLY MATCHED QUAD , 1 COMPANY SUCKED AT IT , 2 DID GREAT ).......BUT......ONLY 2 OUTTA 13 EXH 12AX7 's MADE THE 1st & 2nd SOCKETS IN ONE HEAD ( 3 FAULTY, 2 OK ish & THE REST SUCKED ) I INSTALLED IN THE 3rd & 4th SOCKETS NOS MINI WATTS.....THAT BLENDED IN PERFECTLY. THE OTHER HEAD I LEFT IN THE MARSHALL PRE AMP TUBES THAT ARE MATCHED PERFECTLY ( I thought I could improve but all attempts failed ) I TESTED OTHER OLD USED TUBES I HAD, BUT SUCKED AS WELL........ITS LIKE DAY & NIGHT THE SOUNDS, CRAZY, CRAZY, CRAZY......WHAT A TAXING HUGE CHORE.......PREAMP TUBES ARE FUSSY LITTLE BUGGERS......TO FIND DECENT - GREAT SOUNDING ONES & EVERY SOCKET REQUIRES A CERTAIN VALUE TO WORK PERFECTLY OR THE HARMONIC TONES & OVER ALL VOLUME WILL SUFFER.......I WAS EXHAUSTED & SHOCKED HOW IMPORTANT PREAMP TUBES ......SOUND QUALITY & HOW THEY MATCH UP TO WORK AS A TEAM......NO MERCY AT ALL, "PREAMP TUBES MATTER" !!!!!!!!!
Fantastic video. I too can hear and feel the difference in pre-amp tubes. The Miniwatt's are my favourites, probably because I have them in my Marshall. All the Dutch tubes were made by the same factory and same manufacturer: Phillips in Eindhoven.
Different city same company. Philips is one of our oldest companies. Could call them the Silicon Valley of the 50's and 60's! Old guy I recently acquired as a client restores jukeboxes and told me about the tubes just being rebrands. My neighbour used to be a Philips R&D engineer so might ask him if he can dig up some old books for us tube-nerds :-). Here you can see the 'Molenberg' factory in Heerlen: fabriekofieldotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/molenberg.jpg?w=1320 And this is the Philips tube factory in 1943-Eindhoven: imgur.com/a/CQl0bcA
I can hear the differences in my headphones. I must really be a nerd since I listen 3 times LOL! It will be helpful to narrow my choices. Thanks for this video.
Me too, I blew about $250 on Sylvania 12AX7s for my Deluxe, Princeton and Pro Reverb. Yes, they are an improvement over the stock tubes, especially in the Deluxe.
You are a hero, not least of all for adding time stamps! Fascinating to hear. Generalising slightly but to me the US made tubes seemed a little lower gain to my ear, and less balanced overall. Impressed with the Philips Miniwatt and obviously the Mullards. They seem so well balanced across the board. Fat but tight, thick mids but still super articulate and a nice open top end without being harsh. Thanks so much for doing this Pete.
Not a single point I could disagree on. A friend of mine worked for Toshiba for a while & when they bought out a local shop they got a repair shop with a ton of old tubes & gave him a lot of tubes . We went on a tube shoot out weekend with plenty of beer. The old RCA tubes blew us away & seems they are still a Great tube. I have Sovtek in my 5150 that took a couple years sorting threw a few microphonic bottles, Mesa's in my Mesa LoL what ever brand they use from 10 yrs ago, & Mullard in my Crate amp that soud great. It's a fun tube game but man can it be time consuming. This vid is excellent for anyone getting into the preamp bottle swap. LoL
Great comparison video. Many sound so similar as to making a change wouldn't be worth the time. The JJ's did sound awful to my ear, fizzy and boxy. The unbranded Chinese tube was a surprise, it didn't sound bad at all.
Several years ago i get from a friend a lot of old tube's , i've taken the ECC83 and 12AX7 and EL84 out of it. I have no Tube tester but have a lot of tube guitar amps. Set a Ibanez Valbee on the table (1 12AX7 and 1 6L6 about 7 watt) and put some old preamp tube's in it to test. I've got one old tube that give's a rich tone with more mid. It's still in it, so your ears must do the test. Great video by the way, and yes the tube nerds stay till the end of the video.
Already was a big fan of Bugle Boys, had some old Telephunken Diamond, old JAN 12AX7WA (of course for you know who), and old NOS Blackburn Mullards that were stolen were my best. Didn’t realize how great Brimar and Phillips Mini Watt were. I learned something. New production builds I have been using Sovtek LP 12ax7wa and Ruby BRST El34 which are just relabeled Shuguangs like Terry Kilgore used to sell
That was great! I’m glad you put the comments with your impression for each. In person, some tubes push the speakers and have a little different touch sensitivity which cannot be shown with a recording, but it can affect how you respond in playing. Otherwise, they sound generally the same...but we always pay a premium for that last 5% difference in sound sparkle. Thanks for the video!
Well done! I agree with most of your opinions. With regards to the lowly JAN GE green labeled ones, their value is their lifespan over new production. I like these in some of the cleaner, american style amps. Even newer amps like Carrs. Now lets do the same test with the Phase Inverter position!
12AX7 SHOOT OUT. LOVE IT ALL. Through the Lester and Marshall. Although after 4 grueling years of P/T from diagnosed Ankylosing Spondyosis . I am releasing the DRAGON. Putting up a channel. 5 Song E.P. EPIC COME BACK. I NEVER LEFT.. Love everybody who knows this channel. Blessings....
Pete! Thanks for (accidentally) including the 12AU7s! Definitely heard the lower gain difference. I have some on order and I’m relieved to hear they have the sound I’m going for.
I'd agree with sovteks in the phase inverter, I would also recommend the Chinese one in that slot too for bass players as well. They compress very well.
Very cool man Good stuff 👍 THIS is the kind of things players need and are interested in So saved to listen later on a good system after football 🙂 Thanks man
Thanks for doing this test! Couldn’t agree more with your notes on the Mullards, Sovtek LPS, Tung Sol, JJ’s. Found exactly the same outcomes in my amps. Marshall serviced my 2203 years ago and replaced a microphonic 60’s Mullard with a JJ. I was so gutted when I got the amp home and plugged it in as all the magic had gone. Found some good combinations that get close, but there is something so fun playing a marshall with Mullards in.
Thanks Pete for making the effort to create this video, there is indeed a difference between the tubes, and you made it very clear in this video, i really enjoyed it !
Can't believe you went through all the trouble to do that. Thanks man! I've long since settled on those big plate Mullard reissues. One interesting note, in a parallel triode with shared cathode design, (think Matchless Spitfire V1/V2 for example) unmatched triodes can give you a slightly more noticeable audible difference in tubes and tube types. BTW, I'll use JJs in power stages but not preamp stages.
I've got a bunch of NOS preamp tubes from way back when I had a Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine and also a Blues Master after that. I wish I still had the old tube tester I sold now. I mainly play high gain stuff and use modern tubes now but one of my absolute favorite NOS was that GE Jan 12AX7. My favorite modern preamp tube are those Sovtek 12AX7LPS. I used to really like a EH in V2 for as nice edgy crunch but it seemed to make my bottom end flabby so I took it out. I haven't messed around in years with preamp tubes. I should probably start swapping some in and out with my new setup :)
I listened to the video, but going to listen to it again with a different set of monitors, but what I can personally say is, I can hear the difference(s)!! A handful of them had a real shrill high end that turned me off!! A couple had a more prominent bottom end. Then some were more balanced while others more cutting in the mids. Then there is some slight differences in gain. Yes, the 12AU7 is about 20% gain of a 12AX7! Look forward to listening to it one more time before I communicate what I liked...and didn't like. As always, thanks for the clip and time taken to do it!! :)
Ok. Just looked it up for everyone and as my memory sucks with old age!! lol GAIN FACTORS: 12AX7 - 100 5751 - 70 (30% less gain) 12AT7 - 60 (40% less gain) 12AU7 - 20 (80% less gain)
Not only am I a big enough nerd to watch it all the way through, but I immediately played it again to listen from the beginning haha
True dat
All the Mullards and JJs sounded the best to my ears.
My dad used to work at Mullards Blackburn. I remember driving past the factory with him over forty years ago.
That’s cool!
Yes! That's very cool
best tubes ever made! nothing will ever come close .tried them all .this video is really a joke comparing them to chinese junk
What about a jcm 1983 800 what would sound betterPete?? 20:29
So did I but my dad didn't work there. My ex wife is from Blackburn and if my memory is at all functioning, was it on the right of the Ring road as you went towards Clitheroe?
Used my studio monitor headphones during demo. Here's the top four which impressed my musical ears the most:
1. Mullard Anos Blackburn (RCA LOGO) - Nice full tone. Vey clean highs, nice bottom end. Indeed more gain.
2. Brimar - Wow. Great full well rounded tone!!
3. Phillips Mini Watt (Holland Made) - Another 12AX7 tube which has well rounded tone, clarity. Nice bottom end!
4. Jan Sylvania - Ballsy sounding. Well saturated bottom end, great clarity.
Thanks for taking the time to demo all those 12AX7 tubes, Pete.
Cheers.
I could hear a difference even on my cell phone. There were a few that sounded thinner than others, and some were more gainy than others. I kept rewinding the video and re-comparing them over and over. Thanks for a cool comparison. I must be a true tone nerd I guess...
The Jan Sylvania!Love em and they last forever!A certian guitar god loved these back in the day!
Like jan phillips
Yep that one really stands out.
thanks for re-amping, that's the only way to do a valid comparison
Thanks for this test! It confirms I don't have the ears or interest to go that rabbit hole! All tubes were FINE ahah!
This an old video but it’s relevant to me at the moment. Am I the only one that loved the Tung Sol? That one stood out to me for some reason. I really liked the tone. Also that first Mullard was nice
Super nerdy I dig it. I like the brimar.
The first Mullard was my favourite to my ear.
All the Mullards sound great through RUclipss compression to my ears. Thx Pete for another GREAT video.
I appreciate the test, Pete. I've designed a lot of tube amp circuitry, and I'm very critical of sounds of 12ax7's in particular.
The internal structures of these tubes are visibly different, so why would they -not- have electrical variance. Sometimes major differences turn up in certain circuits. For example, the old BK Butler low voltage Tube Drivers do not work at all with some tubes that sound good at higher voltages. Those often used Yugoslavian EI's (your comments were exactly correct about having to select those for microphonics). Telefunkens can sound good in clean hifi circuits, but do not necessarily overdrive gracefully. (Original) Sovteks are often a miserable choice for overdrive, but they had less crosstalk between the two sides of the tube (yes, that's a thing), which made them useful in some circumstances.
Anyway, this was a very ambitious venture, so thanks for taking the time.
That first Mullard sounded amazing. I've been using the CV4004 in most of my amps recently but I'm also a fan of the LPS. I always put an LPS in the PI. Thanks for doing this. Total nerdom....love it!!
those cv 4004 are russian sovteks that has nothing to do with mullards. mullard i63's are great for pi
No one has explained why an LPS in the PI... I just know that it's all over the internet, but haven't notice much of a difference if at all..
@@XChristianNoirX I haven't thought about this stuff in years, BUT I recall that the REAL thing you want in the PI is a tube that is balanced on both sides since each side is getting sent to half the power section (on a amp with 2 power tubes, the signal from each side of your PI is going to each power tube).
Regarding the LPS, if my 21 year-old memory is correct, Mike Soldano told me that the LPS had something to do with cathode heaters I think?
For example, only two of the four 12AX7s in my soldano astroverb are 12AX7LPS, the other two are just LP.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, BUT regarding an LPS for the PI... all I know is that you want a _balanced_ tube where each half puts out the same amount in the PI so that each of your power tubes gets the same strength signal.
@@StratMatt777 You are welcome to try balanced PI tubes, but the general consensus is that it's marketing snake oil.
As a listener, it's hard to avoid confirmation bias while reading your comments on each tube on the screen. But thanks for recording and posting this!
especially when he is hiding the fact that most of them are made in china
For my ears I'd say the Mullards, the Holland made tubes and the bugle boys just had the tinge more of warm crackle that inspires! The biggest stand-out was the quieter less-gainy tubes like the Telefunken and EH. Great Tube Shoot Out!
I think the main difference is in the crackle, perhaps the frequency of it. Some crackle hard and high for my ears, some are warmly and nicely crackling. Liked those bugle boys especially.
Thanks Pete, the differences can be heard, but RUclips does alter the sound significantly. Love the fullness of the Mullard and teeth of the Telefunken. I've always been a fan of the Amperex tubes too, I'm lucky enough to have a few bugle boys in my stash. I have a 65 Bassman that I spent 2 days on trying out a ton of preamp, phase inverter and power tubes to make it sound the way I like it. So much so that people ask who modded it.
Cool vid! I love the Mullard's, Brimar, and JAN Sylv. Great tone overall. :)
My ears leaned into the original Mullards in this "test" . It was nice to hear another person test these out. I have gone loopy in the past trying to determine or look for differences myself in my single ended amp with 12ax, au or at valves. In this case, They're all not massively different to me, but there's a difference.
I’m a fan of the long plate Sylvania too. I’ve never been a fan of any short plate RCA’s. Get ahold of a late 1950’s long black plate RCA 12ax7 and you’ll never go back. Another amazing tube is the long black plate Raytheon’s they are incredible. Unfortunately both of these tubes were made around 1958-1960 and are expensive. But that’s what I run in my Super Reverb and I have at least 60 different NOS & ANOS tubes that I’ve tried in it.
Nice effort! I love the way you used you looper to get the exact same guitarl playing for each sample. I wish people doing amp mods would do this. That said, this reminds me of a wine tasting. I love it, but by the third or 5th or 6th cab tasting, I can't tell the difference or remember why I like the 3rd one.
I have boxes full of old tubes. Some of my favourites are the Mullards, the RCA's, but my absolute favourite is the TESLA E83CC, Magic in V1 and in the phase inverter. I like the RCA's in the distorting stages (or V2 in a plexi type circuit to clarify, since the phase inverter also clips in this type of amp), adds some bite and harmonics, but in a way that doesn't come across as harsh.
I tried listening blind and there were definitely some that made me audibly yell, "YEAHHHH!' Great to hear so many back-to-back. Thanks for doing this!
I use the Mullard CV4004 in my hifi tube amp and they are great for that. Time to try in my guitar amps I think.
Thanks for all the massive work Pete. In the end you have to listen in a quiet environment on a really good system or isolated in headphones, which proves the point that in the mix or on the radio, or in the club you will never hear the difference. Paying ton's of money for that special cryogenic tube is a waste of money that could have been better spent on speakers or a different cab where you can really hear the difference.
Pete...if you read this...thanks. Your content I recently came across and have binged a bit. The content is always interesting and really good quality. Thanks dude.
I've made a similar test some years ago. I even bought a tube tester and tested each tube before recording it. Similar conclusions... Mullards are just amazing in Marshalls (and in every amp, as I tested them in a BF Bandmaster and a Dual Recto). Most european old tubes are great, being the RFT the most dark and compressed (great choice for a 2203/jcm800). Sylvanias are the best among US made by far. I've sold all my GE after the test (I even prefer modern tubes).
Great Job Pete!
Pete, you’re literally the coolest 💙🤓
Awesome! Tung sol 12ax7 in V1, and older SED Winged "C" 6L6GC's in the power section for me, but I will experiment more with the 12AX7 after watching this... Love the Amp!
I literally couldn't find a single thing wrong with this video. I'm not even a guitarist and I'm loving this.
The playing was actually pretty good. You putting this together, with the explanations/information with each tube, excellent
Great playing as always Pete and nice comparision! Since I am from Holland, I like the Amperex and Philips Miniwatt most. They used to make them at the Philips plant in Heerlen. Also the Mullards (Blackburn) are great! For some reason, I never connected with the German manufacturers. However the SIEMENS ECC801S BVA (Bundeswehr) are great for the phase inverter position. I use that in a 1966 Bandmaster and sounds killer!
I can listen to the Rebel Rebel riff all day long, tbh.
Those EI yugoslavian valve had a nice fat tone. The last one was great. All of em good as long as they work. Surprised at how good the Ecc82 sounded(12au7). Thanks for opening up the doors on those lesser known brands that are pretty amazing.
Love these videos! My favourites were the Phillips Miniwatt, JAN Sylvania and I really also liked the reissue Mullard CV4004. Wasn't a fan of the Telefunken in the Marshall.
Thank you, Pete, for the great comparison. I think the differences are subtle but they are there. I tend to like Telefunken and Mullard's Blackburn tubes.
Cheers Pete , I realise this is 2 years ago but my custom made amp has just lost sound which I'm figuring is a tube so the tube shoot out has been helpful 🙏🙏
This was like 30 years of my life experience of preamp tubes condensed into 20 minutes. The EH's have been my fav for 14 years. My RCA's and Sylvainia's have all expired or sold with the amp. So it was cool to hear them all in a true AB comparison, not from my memory over the years. Great comparison!
are you all working at eh tubes? is this a joke?
EH were horrible
"Let's Get It UP!" I love that song! AC/DC forever!
Hell yes. This just reaffirms my love for Bugle Boys. I dig mine out of old broken bakelite radios, film projectors and tape machines that I find at flea markets.
Tube be or not Tube be, definitely the mullards, very warm n full..love the amprex n the bugle boy had a better clarity to me...No 1 Nerd...lol
Hello there. Great comparison. I have a bunch of Japanese Matsushita made preamp and power tubes. Different types and branded RCA, Sylvania, Bell & Howell, GE, all great preamp tubes made in Japan set up by Phillips. Don't hear too much about these tubes. Maybe that is a good thing as you can find them priced pretty reasonably.
I appreciate how you start by saying the sound is very subtle. I kind of feel the same about tubes in that when it comes to tone, there's bigger fish to fry. I buy good tubes but don't dig in too much more.
Your correct about the Mullard. They handled all frequencies with heart. Very well with compression. Leaves lots of control when playing.
Thank you for doing this. I would have to say Mullard.. and Bugle Boy. I am using my tubes for a preamp and compressor... Mullard for Preamp and a Telefunken for Compressor.. I need to the Siemens triple Mica.. You Rock!!!
Sovtek 12ax7LPS and new production Mullard CV4004 are the ones I use most.
I love NOS RFT's in V1. As long as you have a good tube in V1 then you can put just about anything else in the other positions (usually JJ's or EHX)
you can put just about anything but why would you? pi and the tone buffer are very important as well. power and rectifier tubes are important as well.
Awesome to nerd out on a Saturday afternoon!...it won't translate as well over RUclips,but the difference in sound (and feel) is pretty clear in person...the better tubes just have more complexity and an airy '3D' vibe...nice job!
Have you tried JJ e83cc tubes ? The recreation of the E83CC has been designed with a frame grid to help ensure low noise and microphonics.
Great demonstration Pete!
My 79’ JMP and I like the old British and German made tubes the most. However I’ve been using the reissue Mullards with great results.
Thanks to this video, I took the plunge through this rabbit hole. I started by purchasing two used Sylvania Long Grey Plate 12ax7s, and a used Amperex Globe Logo 12ax7. The Globe Logo had a loud buzz when installed in the V1 slot of my '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, which meant I lost about $75 right at the start.
Not deterred, I put one of the used Sylvania 12ax7s in the V1 slot of my '65 Princeton RI, which didn't make a big difference but did give me slightly more headroom. The other used Sylvania 12ax7 went into my Deluxe, and was a noticeable improvement over the original GT/JJ 12ax7.
I then bought a ANOS JAN Sylvania 12ax7 ($70) and a NOS JAN Sylvania 12ax7 ($130!) and put the ANOS in my '68 Custom Pro Reverb and the NOS in the '68 Deluxe Reverb, both in the V1 slot. I noticed a big improvement in both amps over the originals (GT/JJ Slovak 12ax7s). The CDR actually sounds better than before when using it as a keyboard amp (less distortion with a piano patch), which to me was indicative of improved dynamic range.
A couple of months later, I found a used Raytheon Long Black Plate 12ax7 with low noise test results from a dealer in Iowa. I put it in the V1 slot of my '59 Bassman LTD along with new JJ 6L6GCs (the amp had 500+ hours on the power tubes, and had begun to get slightly mushy). The Bassman has always sounded good, and I didn't notice as much improvement in the sound when compared with the original Russian 12ax7s. By comparison, the improvement in the deluxe was night and day.
What a great comparison! Of course we are talking about nuance here, and honestly I wouldn' t do that if not mandatory for a replacement, so I thank you for doing this tor US!❤️ About the tubes, once I listened to 3m Branded Mullard One i set It as a reference, It screamed " Malcolm Young and Ronno!" to me!❤️
The AU really stood out. They were grouped pretty much how you explained. I’m now a Mullard fan, time to buy some tubes. 😀
That is dedication....or insanity 😉
Great vid! I'm sure it was time-consuming and I commend you on your patience. It helped to guide me thru my tube selection process!
I recently had my '72 Super Lead retubed and biased with Tung-Sol EL34B's and I am very pleased with them. They have a nice wide tonal range and a very clear midrange similar to old-production Mullard's. (See Pete's comparison of EL34's.) I've swapped around a few different new stock/reissue 12AX7's in the V1 and V2 positions to hear what differences that would result in. Changing tubes in the V1 position obviously made the biggest differences. At the 2 opposite ends of the tonal spectrum of the ones I tried were the Tung-Sol 12AX7 and the Mullard 12AX7. The Tung-Sol's had the deepest bass and highest highs and the least amount of midrange presence. They were fairly bright sounding in my amp and had a sort of sizzle in the high end. The Mullard's had the biggest and most complex midrange at the expense of some low and high end compared to the Tung-Sol's with slightly lower gain. Right now, I have a Mullard in V1 and a JJ ECC803s Gold Pin in the V2 and PI positions and I'm probably going to stick with that configuration because of the great midrange character the Mullard has and I didn't really care for that sizzle produced by the Tung-Sol. FYI, I liked the Tung-Sol 12AX7 a lot more in the V2 position than in V1. Both seemed like well-constructed, low-noise tubes.
So I have a few of these old Silvertone 1482 amps. About 20 years ago I picked up an old TV repair man toolbox at a garage sale that was full of tubes. In the box I found 4 NOS Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7's. Put one in my old Silvertone amp and I could not believe how much better it sounded. I tried several other new tubes as well but man those old Amperex tubes sounded awesome!
I love you for doing this! Best of RUclips guitar nerdery!!!
Yo man! Just watched some of your fine vids..
@@PeteThorn :) :) :)
Pete! I literally just did a mini version of your shootout with my '72 Superlead and about 10 different 12AX7's. My Sylvania was low output as well and the RCA just didn't sound "right" in the Marshall but my blackface Showman loves it. Much like you I prefer the British tubes for British amps. It makes sense because that's what they were using when they voiced them. Mullard Blackburn and Bugle Boy all the way. Just fantastic! And the riff was awesome. Thank you.
My RCA grey plates sound great in all of my Superleads! Loud and very articulate, full, etc!
Well to be fair the Sylvania was an ECC 82 12AU7
@@PeteThorn OK, there's that, lol. Definitely less gain :-)
Old Stock: The Mullards all sound great. I also really liked the sound of the Brimar and the Amperex Globe Logo.
New Stock: The Mullard 12AX7 Reissue and the RFT. I was kind of surprised to hear you say you didn't care for it, I thought it was pretty killer but I was listening specifically for what I'm looking for myself. ;)
I'm not going to lie and say that wasn't some serious ear burn, but I found that going back and listening to small sections and comparing that initial lick really help put them into perspective.
Thanks for the Video Pete, loved it and I especially appreciated hearing your thoughts on them as well. Some channels just let you decide and don't say anything, but I prefer to hear your feedback as well as you're in the room. Peace my Canadian Prairie Brother!!
As you said in the beginning: Speakers are more effective upgrade on final sound than a simple preamp tube !! Great video ... cheers from Brasil !!
especially when you want to sell something! maybe eh?
@@yaniv-nos-tubes I didn't get it ...
Ive done this on all my amps. Spend a day rolling pre amp tubes through the sockets until im happy
mullard reissue, new tungsol and so on are basically sovtek, they re made in that factory and selected for different specs
i couldn't appreciate the small differences between the tubes (except when you put the 12au7),even with good earphones...said so.... in real life in my fender i prefer something like electro harmonix (sovtek) in v1,
in my 5e3 jj 12ay7 and 5751 it's good ,sylvania and ge are quiet , old italian made rca or marconi are good and still cheap, and reliable...some of the european nade ecc83 are a bit noisy and flash on filaments...but i haven't been lucky founding a good one maybe👍🏻
Good Job Pete, i enjoyed the video a lot🙏
I may be on some weird side... I did not find the riffs on the guitar dull after 21 repeat. The video is great. Thanks dude 🎸
👍🇺🇲❤GREAT DEMO MR. PETE.......I JUST FINISHED RE-TUBING BOTH MARSHALL DSL 's ( 15 HOURS OF MY TIME )......I LOVE THE EHX RFT STYLE POWER TUBES ( ONLY IF ITS A PROFESSIONALLY MATCHED QUAD , 1 COMPANY SUCKED AT IT , 2 DID GREAT ).......BUT......ONLY 2 OUTTA 13 EXH 12AX7 's MADE THE 1st & 2nd SOCKETS IN ONE HEAD ( 3 FAULTY, 2 OK ish & THE REST SUCKED ) I INSTALLED IN THE 3rd & 4th SOCKETS NOS MINI WATTS.....THAT BLENDED IN PERFECTLY. THE OTHER HEAD I LEFT IN THE MARSHALL PRE AMP TUBES THAT ARE MATCHED PERFECTLY ( I thought I could improve but all attempts failed ) I TESTED OTHER OLD USED TUBES I HAD, BUT SUCKED AS WELL........ITS LIKE DAY & NIGHT THE SOUNDS, CRAZY, CRAZY, CRAZY......WHAT A TAXING HUGE CHORE.......PREAMP TUBES ARE FUSSY LITTLE BUGGERS......TO FIND DECENT - GREAT SOUNDING ONES & EVERY SOCKET REQUIRES A CERTAIN VALUE TO WORK PERFECTLY OR THE HARMONIC TONES & OVER ALL VOLUME WILL SUFFER.......I WAS EXHAUSTED & SHOCKED HOW IMPORTANT PREAMP TUBES ......SOUND QUALITY & HOW THEY MATCH UP TO WORK AS A TEAM......NO MERCY AT ALL, "PREAMP TUBES MATTER" !!!!!!!!!
The Philips Mini-Watt really does stand out. It sounds more different from the average tube sound than any other one.
Fantastic video. I too can hear and feel the difference in pre-amp tubes. The Miniwatt's are my favourites, probably because I have them in my Marshall.
All the Dutch tubes were made by the same factory and same manufacturer: Phillips in Eindhoven.
Is that the same as Heerlen? That’s where I heard the Amperex tubes made in Holland were made
Different city same company. Philips is one of our oldest companies. Could call them the Silicon Valley of the 50's and 60's! Old guy I recently acquired as a client restores jukeboxes and told me about the tubes just being rebrands. My neighbour used to be a Philips R&D engineer so might ask him if he can dig up some old books for us tube-nerds :-).
Here you can see the 'Molenberg' factory in Heerlen: fabriekofieldotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/molenberg.jpg?w=1320
And this is the Philips tube factory in 1943-Eindhoven: imgur.com/a/CQl0bcA
Using a loop was excellent scientific control method, well done 👏
I can hear the differences in my headphones. I must really be a nerd since I listen 3 times LOL! It will be helpful to narrow my choices. Thanks for this video.
The Brimar, and Miniwatt were the standouts to me in that amp. I like the Tungsols for a dark amp.
Mullard CV4004
12:36
12:55
13:03
Mullard 12ax7
6:46
7:04
7:13
Sylvania Jan 12ax7 to me no doubt the winner thank you for doing that very cool yes I'm a nerd
Me too, I blew about $250 on Sylvania 12AX7s for my Deluxe, Princeton and Pro Reverb. Yes, they are an improvement over the stock tubes, especially in the Deluxe.
You are a hero, not least of all for adding time stamps! Fascinating to hear. Generalising slightly but to me the US made tubes seemed a little lower gain to my ear, and less balanced overall. Impressed with the Philips Miniwatt and obviously the Mullards. They seem so well balanced across the board. Fat but tight, thick mids but still super articulate and a nice open top end without being harsh. Thanks so much for doing this Pete.
That's one of my favorite AC/DC riffs.
Not a single point I could disagree on. A friend of mine worked for Toshiba for a while & when they bought out a local shop they got a repair shop with a ton of old tubes & gave him a lot of tubes . We went on a tube shoot out weekend with plenty of beer. The old RCA tubes blew us away & seems they are still a Great tube. I have Sovtek in my 5150 that took a couple years sorting threw a few microphonic bottles, Mesa's in my Mesa LoL what ever brand they use from 10 yrs ago, & Mullard in my Crate amp that soud great. It's a fun tube game but man can it be time consuming. This vid is excellent for anyone getting into the preamp bottle swap. LoL
Great comparison video. Many sound so similar as to making a change wouldn't be worth the time. The JJ's did sound awful to my ear, fizzy and boxy. The unbranded Chinese tube was a surprise, it didn't sound bad at all.
Китай Psvane 12ax7-s pro ещё лучше!!
Several years ago i get from a friend a lot of old tube's , i've taken the ECC83 and 12AX7 and EL84 out of it. I have no Tube tester but have a lot of tube guitar amps. Set a Ibanez Valbee on the table (1 12AX7 and 1 6L6 about 7 watt) and put some old preamp tube's in it to test. I've got one old tube that give's a rich tone with more mid. It's still in it, so your ears must do the test. Great video by the way, and yes the tube nerds stay till the end of the video.
Already was a big fan of Bugle Boys, had some old Telephunken Diamond, old JAN 12AX7WA (of course for you know who), and old NOS Blackburn Mullards that were stolen were my best.
Didn’t realize how great Brimar and Phillips Mini Watt were.
I learned something.
New production builds I have been using Sovtek LP 12ax7wa and Ruby BRST El34 which are just relabeled Shuguangs like Terry Kilgore used to sell
That was great! I’m glad you put the comments with your impression for each.
In person, some tubes push the speakers and have a little different touch sensitivity which cannot be shown with a recording, but it can affect how you respond in playing.
Otherwise, they sound generally the same...but we always pay a premium for that last 5% difference in sound sparkle.
Thanks for the video!
Well done! I agree with most of your opinions. With regards to the lowly JAN GE green labeled ones, their value is their lifespan over new production. I like these in some of the cleaner, american style amps. Even newer amps like Carrs.
Now lets do the same test with the Phase Inverter position!
12AX7 SHOOT OUT. LOVE IT ALL.
Through the Lester and Marshall. Although after 4 grueling years of P/T from diagnosed Ankylosing Spondyosis . I am releasing the DRAGON. Putting up a channel. 5 Song E.P. EPIC COME BACK. I NEVER LEFT.. Love everybody who knows this channel. Blessings....
This is exactly what I needed to see. Just the last few days I've been looking at replacing the AX7 in my Carvin Legacy 3. I want it to be less fizzy
try mullard i61 1959-1964 they are about 70-150$ at ebay, the best choice for v1
The Mullard 4004 original production is the best but very expensive and rare. I was lucky enough to grab 24 in the 90s
Bugle boy for the win😁
Try and look for India made Laxman Sylvania tubes,great tone if you can find it😁
Pete! Thanks for (accidentally) including the 12AU7s! Definitely heard the lower gain difference. I have some on order and I’m relieved to hear they have the sound I’m going for.
Amperex Bugle Boy sounds pretty full, love it.
The LP/LPS is a Long Plate design. I find long plates tend to sound better but they can also be microphonic.
The EH 7025 surprised me. I like a telefunken ribbed plate in V1 on a lot of amps. And yes the Sovtek is great in the PI slot.
Thanks for being crazy! This is really a great educational opportunity that is needed! Thanks so much!
I'd agree with sovteks in the phase inverter, I would also recommend the Chinese one in that slot too for bass players as well. They compress very well.
Very cool man Good stuff 👍 THIS is the kind of things players need and are interested in So saved to listen later on a good system after football 🙂 Thanks man
Excellent video - exactly why RUclips was created! (Mullards sound like what I'm looking for...)
Thanks for doing this test! Couldn’t agree more with your notes on the Mullards, Sovtek LPS, Tung Sol, JJ’s. Found exactly the same outcomes in my amps. Marshall serviced my 2203 years ago and replaced a microphonic 60’s Mullard with a JJ. I was so gutted when I got the amp home and plugged it in as all the magic had gone.
Found some good combinations that get close, but there is something so fun playing a marshall with Mullards in.
Yep gotta have those vintage mallards to sound right
I have found that current production ECC 83 tubes sound their best after playing for 20 to 30 hours . They tend to warm up a bit.
I put an EHX 12AY7 in the first position of my Marshall DSL. It calmed down some gain and warmed up the fizzy. Still plenty of gain for rock.
Thanks Pete for making the effort to create this video, there is indeed a difference between the tubes, and you made it very clear in this video, i really enjoyed it !
Can't believe you went through all the trouble to do that. Thanks man! I've long since settled on those big plate Mullard reissues. One interesting note, in a parallel triode with shared cathode design, (think Matchless Spitfire V1/V2 for example) unmatched triodes can give you a slightly more noticeable audible difference in tubes and tube types. BTW, I'll use JJs in power stages but not preamp stages.
Nice one on the shout out for Brimar, it'll be incredible if they can reignite the british valve indistry
I've got a bunch of NOS preamp tubes from way back when I had a Hughes & Kettner Cream Machine and also a Blues Master after that. I wish I still had the old tube tester I sold now. I mainly play high gain stuff and use modern tubes now but one of my absolute favorite NOS was that GE Jan 12AX7. My favorite modern preamp tube are those Sovtek 12AX7LPS. I used to really like a EH in V2 for as nice edgy crunch but it seemed to make my bottom end flabby so I took it out. I haven't messed around in years with preamp tubes. I should probably start swapping some in and out with my new setup :)
I listened to the video, but going to listen to it again with a different set of monitors, but what I can personally say is, I can hear the difference(s)!! A handful of them had a real shrill high end that turned me off!! A couple had a more prominent bottom end. Then some were more balanced while others more cutting in the mids. Then there is some slight differences in gain. Yes, the 12AU7 is about 20% gain of a 12AX7! Look forward to listening to it one more time before I communicate what I liked...and didn't like. As always, thanks for the clip and time taken to do it!! :)
I think the 12AT7 is 70 percent gain of a 12AX7, the 12AU7 is more like 20 percent? IIRC!
Ok. Just looked it up for everyone and as my memory sucks with old age!! lol
GAIN FACTORS:
12AX7 - 100
5751 - 70 (30% less gain)
12AT7 - 60 (40% less gain)
12AU7 - 20 (80% less gain)
Awesome video!
I appreciate the time and effort it takes to create content like this, thank you.