Zodiac: The Cruciality Of Causality
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- [SPOILERS: Zodiac]
Zodiac tells the story of the pursuit for the notorious Zodiac Killer, who to this day has never been conclusively identified, though the film is quite explicit about it’s own contentions as to the killer’s identity.
The most fascinating thing about the film is that, on paper, it should have never gotten off the ground. The shooting script came to a monstrous 207 pages, the final film having a runtime of 157 minutes, well above the average of your standard Hollywood release. The material itself isn’t exactly something studio heads would be at each other's throats over; there are basically no action scenes in the traditional sense, the film being comprised almost entirely of dialogue. And there was the fact that audiences would be going into the film knowing that the case was never definitively closed, thus, the “mystery” element would be significantly dampened; the film acting as more of a character study about the dangers of obsession.
And yet the film was widely acclaimed, is considered one of the best films of the 21st century. I slept on the film when it was first released but upon rewatching it, I was absolutely floored, particularly by the insane pacing. Despite the film’s length, lack of traditional action scenes, and me being aware of the culprit still being unidentified, the film is able to keep you constantly engaged. And this piqued my curiosity as to how a story that on paper seems like a dry, droll affair became one of the most gripping films of the last 20 years. The answer: causality
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[00:00] - Intro/Shout-outs
[02:31] - Let's Talk About Pacing
[03:26] - What is Causality?
[06:00] - Zodiac's Cause & Effect Storytelling
[10:47] - Clever Character Development
[12:31] - Conclusion
[14:36] - Outro/Patrons
VIDEO:
Matt Stone and Trey Parker at NYU: • Writing Advice from Ma...
MUSIC:
"Graysmith Obsessed" by David Shire (Zodiac: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack)
"Closer & Closer" by David Shire (Zodiac: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack)
"Danse Macabre" by Kevin MacLeod 
Кино
My parents have a chronic habit of falling asleep during movies. But when we started this at 8pm, they were engrossed the entire time. Rare to see and a mark of quality to pacing and storytelling
Johnny walks into his favourite flower shop
*But*, the clerk asks how can she help
*Therefore*, Johnny asks for a dozen red roses
*But*, she doesn't recognize him
*Therefore*, He takes his sunglasses off before she gives him the roses
*But*, he realizes he still has to pay,
*Therefore*, he asks how much it is
*But*, she says it'll be $18 which he doesn't have the exact amount for
*Therefore*, he tells her to keep the change
*But*, that makes him sad
*Therefore*, he pets the dog, says "Hi doggie", and is told he is her favourite customer
THE ROOM IS A MASTERPIECE
Based
Damn, Johnny, I didn't know it was you.
The "Therefore" and "but" rule changed my perspective on writing entirely. Zodiac uses the rule so well it inspires me to write my own story's. Amazing video
Dude, it's not inspiration you need but a spelling class or two...
Grammar & punctuation as well 😂
Hey, you two lay off the guy. English probably isn't their first language.
@@TomEyeTheSFMguy nah im just retarded
@@pc15pdx oh okay.
"And the audacity of the caucacity."
never thought i would see South Park and the Zodiac Killer involved in the same subject, but damn you never cease to amaze Mac.
Zodiac is perfect strorytelling and craftmanship.
That ending tho lol. Fantastic breakdown my friend, this is one of those topics that a lot of writers don't think about. When you write a story, you know things are SUPPOSED to happen, but you have to figure out that domino effect between A and B where it's fun, entertaining, and most importantly makes sense. I'll accept "plot holes" any day over a story that has no proper reason to progress
that one scene in Zodiac scares the shit out of me to this day
4:32 Best masterclass condensed into a short YT clip ever!
Oh man, your fake outs always get me. A few videos ago I was afraid you hated Mean Girls, before you finally said you loved it. Same with Zodiac here
Holy shit. This really contextualized my feelings on some of my more favorite media, and why it resonated with me more, and it's a great guideline on what to do to improve my own writing. Thanks man, this is amazing!
I'm pretty much a sucker for any character driven story. I always use There Will Be Blood as an example. On paper, it doesn't seem like a very interesting film: Guy drills for oil, fights with preacher, milkshake metaphor. But it's an incredibly gripping film because of the *characters* and how they're built up. Great video as always!
The actors capable of doing such characters justice are important too. Thankfully both movies had such great casts/casting
I really like this movie sadly they dont make these type of movies nowadays
I forget that such famous actors are in this. It's a testament to how good the directing and writing is.
3:40
"Have you ever watched a film where things just happen? Like one event occurs after the other, but they feel disconnected, like you could of shifted them around any which way and it wouldn't of made much diference"
Every Micheal Bay movie
My man
It’s a very different movie than typically does well in the 21st century, dominated by franchise blockbusters with hyped-up plot beats as audiences are these days - I could see it fitting in better with the likes of Amadeus and The Godfather, steadily paced character studies almost completely devoid of action scenes or cheeky quips
I know it came out in 2007, but I think the point still stands, as the first movies from that era that I can think of are the Star Wars prequels and the Transformers and Avatar, etc.
So simple, yet so many so called professionals can't seem to handle the concept...
True for Zodiac, true for Benjamin Gump!!! Thanx!!
0:40-0:58
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣Hilarious subversion of that tone !!!! 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
I watched this movie like a few weeks ago and I totally loved the storytelling and various scenes, totally a masterpiece
Excellent of final picture. I love a good millers crossing reference
Amazing how the principle of causality, expounded by Aristotle in his Poetic, is still relevant. And with good reason.
By the way, Southpark's creators gave an amazing explanation.
It's crazy how so many actors in this movie were involved with the MCU starting around this time.
3. RDJ, Mark Ruffalo, and Jake Gyllenhaal.
Berserk taught me the importance of Causality, and I’m all ears for this
Wow, this simple yet elegant concept is exactly what I've been missing for my story. Thank you so much for detailing it in such an easy and fun way to digest!
It's what I've been missing in my outlining method. From acts to sequence beats. I was able to actually get my first draft of that dumb story done way shorter than I figured.
For me, Causality is sort of dividing the story into puzzle pieces. Every single piece you place should fit in cleanly with the next one, because part of it tells you what should go next. They are all connected.
When you talked about causality and pacing, it reminded me a lot about Curb Your Enthusiasm. The pacing in that show is fast, to keep everything funny.
For example, if Larry says he needs to go to the dry cleaners, it cuts to him at the dry cleaners. He doesn't go later, or at some vague point in the future - he goes immediately and we don't have to see whatever comes in between.
This is a brilliant video. I love your channel and have been diving into your videos. Thanks for all you do
That’s so funny. I’m working on a pilot right now and despite having read multiple books on structure and the like, the Trey and Matt video helped me the most. Now on my rough drafts there always has to be “therefore” and “but” written between plot points. It’s very helpful when trying to figure out action and dialogue for the next scene.
Kinda like the principle of good improv, isn’t it? - “Yes, and…” rather than stop-and-go and jumping from subject to subject
Aye, nice to see another vid from you Mac! And one of my own favs nonetheless!
Contagion would be another great example of causality. Everything flows so well and is, in my opinion, one of the greatest dramas to provide a realistic depiction of a world wide catastrophe on nearly all levels of society through it's various characters. Too bad the marketing sucked ass.
Really great explanation of why "Zodiac" is so spellbinding when you know the ending and are highly skeptical about the source material.
This blew my mind, thank you for sharing this!
Man, this was a great video. Appreciate your content
The Prestige was another masterpiece of similar style. Do you remember the Family Guy episodes of South Park? Cartman goes on a rant of the cut aways and the importance of moments integral to the story. Zodiac was so good we came out of the cinema and stopped to talk about it. Thats the mark of something special.
The section about 'causality' and the comment about "no scenes wasted" made me think of The Dark Knight - also coincidentally a movie about people trying to catch a killer lol
👍
Omg I’ve never heard of this “therefore” and “but” lesson before this video 😳 blew my mind, I’m gonna use this tactic for scripting my videos now! This is brilliant!
Toschi was taken off Homicide, not fired from the Police Force. Other then that Great Vid.
Yeah you right good point 👍
This is a valuable video for anyone interested in writing and storytelling. Also a breakdown of a great film!
i was gonna go to sleep but macabre storytelling uploaded a new video therefore i must now watch it but its another great video therefore you must keep uploading more good videos :)
Damn it, and here I thought this was going to be a Berserk video.
I like how not even a month later the zodic killer was likely figured out
Excellent analysis. If you want to see a 90 minute movie that seems to go on forever, try to get through "Repo Men". I watched 20 minutes of it and thought it had actually taken an hour. No joke.
You sir have seen the wrong Repo movie.. if want to see a great Repo movie then watch Repo Man from 1984 instead..
You deserve to have millions of subscribers good sir therefore spreading this amazing content to so many more people 😉
hmmm causality you say... Mayhaps another great story out there discusses causality too?
Great work 🎉
This is gonna be a dope vid
'Invaluable video. Thank you.
Every time Macabre says the word Causality, I keep thinking he's slowly going to start sounding like Void of the Godhand.
6:05 and 8:07
I half expected in those two "therefore, but" sequences Sir Bedivere and the peasant mob to show up.
"And therefore...?"
"A WITCH!!!!"
Did everyone just decide to finally watch this movie, this last weekend?
Finally, my favorite youtuber has made a video on my favorite film. (sorry for calling you a youtuber)
You sumbish
3:14
Ay man, eventually every director has one.
Thumbs up even before it starts for the clerks movie dialogue
These just make everything so much easier to undedsfand
I need to rewatch... this film was the first time I was with a group of people and we all elected to walk out of the theatre about an hour in.
Watching this video even though I've never seen Zodiac was still very entertaining 😊 now I want to watch it!
THANK YOU!!!! I have been raging about the Curious Case of Benjamin Button ever since it came out and I always felt alone in this 😁
Another banger.
Good video.
God I love this video I don't know what it is about this video but I have watched it over and over and over at this point it's one of my favorite go to RUclips videos when I'm trying to think of something to watch
Great value
Started watching this video and stopped a minute in because I wanted to watch the movie. Holy shit that was amazing. Thank you for introducing this to me.
💪💪💪
This video is has no business being this remarkable
Loved this movie. Only watched it a couple months ago randomly and didn't realise it was so long until you mentioned it lmao
Love this movie. Remember when there were great movies and not just endless superhero remakes?
Stone and Parker are perhaps the most underrated writers and filmmakers of the modern era. Or at least they used to be--"Team America" seems to have improved their mainstream exposure and reputation. But even their early, pre-"South Park" stuff like "Cannibal! The Musical" and "Orgazmo" show how well the understood great storytelling, how musically multi-faceted they were, and how sharp their sense of comedy was. Their jokes don't always land--how could they after almost 30 years?--and they sometimes get too strident with their political messages for my tastes, but damn..."Team America" and even more so "South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut" aren't just hilarious, they're also great musicals, social commentaries about Americans' celebration of violence and squeamishness about sex, and big jokes at the expense of the very deserving MPAA. The "South Park" movie was also the only film I've ever seen half the audience walk out of in the first 30 min, and the only one that's ever made me laugh so hard I ended up on the sticky theater floor.
Yay new movie to watch
could you do a video on backwards causality
It crazy how many mcu actors are in this, mark ruffalo, Robert Downey jr, and jake Gyllenhaal.
We also have Norm Gunderson from Fargo
Quiz Show is also a masterpiece of storytelling
Got to say, I feel real bad for Robert. He was just a guy, already divorced once, trying to catch a serial killer and it costs him his second marriage, even though catching the Zodiac is arguably more important because he was still alive, possibly plotting out more killings. Not to mention he seriously could've died in that guy's basement had he not left. Very fine scene of tension
What do you mean he "could've died in that guy's basement had he not left."? The movie makes it clear that Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac killer (unless there were 2, but the film implies that there was only one). Also, if that guy wanted to kill Robert, why did he unlock the door so he could just leave?
+@@davidhoffman6980 Well, I was pretty sure that guy was either the Zodiac or someone who was in cahoots. I thought he was acting decently suspiscously, so that's where my mind went
But you're right; Arthur was most certainly the killer
100% wrong on TCCOBB. It's a movie about love, not at all about aging backwards. It's not about hold your hands and stare into each other's eyes forever type of thing, but it's about the impact of time on love, how love can be immature, how it can ripen and become a perfect thing, and then age and rot and ultimately die. It's a realistic portrayal of love in this odd fantasy premise.
So I tried using this method, and I made this dumb little short story about 2 girls trying to fix a recliner. First draft outline.
The story starts with the girl showing her friend the broken recliner chair outside. She wants her to fix it before her mom comes home.
BUT
Her friend doesn't want to just do her work for her.
THEREFORE
She promises to do it with her, and promises something else that I haven't thought through entirely.
THEREFORE
Her friend agrees on this, and they bring the chair inside.
THEREFORE
They get to work on fixing the chair.
BUT
They realize they don't actually know how to fix a recliner.
THEREFORE
So they search up tutorials on how to fix a recliner.
BUT
They didn't really get the tutorials, and their misunderstandings end up making the recliner situation worse.
THEREFORE
They try using things to keep it from falling apart.
BUT
It doesn't work at all and the chair falls apart completely.
BUT
Since they don't know how to fix a recliner, they also have no idea how to put one back together.
THEREFORE
So the girl gets the idea to get rid of the broken remains.
THEREFORE
They quickly move the pieces to the dumpster.
BUT
Their mom comes home, and they have no idea how to explain the missing recliner.
THEREFORE
When mom comes in and asks about the missing recliner, she tries some bullshit excuse.
BUT
The mom doesn't buy it and grounds the girl (or something).
Like I said, dumb. Not that the causality method caused it to be that, just the story in of itself.
Misterio, hulk and iron man.
Besides making character development more challenging, are there any other snags to causal storytelling? Falling into formulaic territory, perhaps?
Excellent as always, Mac.
Absolutely. It also may run into the issue of too many "therefores" and not enough "buts". If the story is just ALL therefore's, then it most likely is lacking conflict. However if you can find a way to make the "buts" a result of the "therefore"s, THAT is when you get a hella good story.
@@MacabreStorytelling Amen. Upon further reflection, it's abundantly clear most of my favorite films follow the latter -- the "buts" are a result of the “therefores” (e.g., Amadeus). Hol up… wait a minute… did we just discover that the reason most films and shows these days, to put it plainly, suck ass is because their storytelling suffers from a gross imbalance and connection of "buts" and “therefores?”
@@conradtrueit7882 INCONCIEVABLE!!!!
This is a very plot-driven type of storytelling. I don't think this approach would work if you wanted to write a character driven story.
It definitely could depending on the circumstances.
To a certain degree, it’s still character-driven but with a character that remains unidentified, if you catch my meaning lol
What's the difference?
Yeah, it could.
Holy sh- this is genius!
Therefore I guess it's time to become a patreon
Idk if anyone has said this yet but they have finally identified the zodiac killer as Gary Poste
I was like ok I’ve never heard of this movie so it couldn’t have been that good but RDJ Mark Ruffalow AND Jake Gyllenhaal. Some of my top 10 actors. Hell yeah I fully believe this is a masterpiece.
I think Breaking Bad might be one of the very few shows to also have nearly flawless causality.
Am I tripping or did he say Tuesday this would drop?
I lied
Masterclass film.
Oh, I really love this essay! The breakdown was absolutely fantastic and that causality chain tip might actually help so much? I'm currently struggling with parts of a story I'm working on and this might actually help me fix that problem, thank you so much! :D
Have any of you read Chaos? It's about all the holes in the Manson case. Gave me Zodiac vibes. About a low level journalist who uncovers a labyrinthine conspiracy. Recommend it
Hey, come to think of it, after watching this and looking at you're rewrite to Jake Gyllenhaal's other film, Prisoners, this feels like something that explains why Zodiac WORKED and why Prisoners DIDN'T.
im begging you to make an angry video about benjamin button
I got to disagree. I love all of his films, and Benjamin button is an interesting love story. I cried. We all know eventually we’ll lose a loved one to time eventually
My favorite fincher film
Gotta say I’m sad this is only 15 min 🙂
Y’all be incredulous when I drop a three hour baddie and now y’all leaving negative reviews after I spent 6 months upping my articulation game. Gtfo a here w/ that shit.
There is, pointing out long comings of others for one
Wow, this is great. Thanks for the upload. I really enjoyed the movie and your essay. I enjoyed Benjamin button as nothing more than fluff.
Jewel saw the title of this video and thought it meant being casual is important.
For the 3 people that get this joke
Loved that Benjamin Button Burn … good hook
I've cooled off of Fincher for a long time now but I might check this out now cause it does sound interesting. I know exactly what you mean about the Benjamin Button thing. The trailers alone were unbearable and I never saw it. It's bad when the premise of a movie alone puts you to sleep lmao
plot twist: ur the zodiac killer, or his son.
@8:24 “And (is) then” told…..
does that NOT count as an “and then” ??? Hmmmmm?
Sort of, but him visiting Jack is as a result of him visiting Narlow.
@@MacabreStorytelling was totes just bustin’ you chops, gud suh.
I often get caught up in semantics, and was just pouncing on the notion that not everything is as clear cut as one would initially believe. There is quite often no such thing as black and white…. Just various shades of grey, at least in this context…. I purposefully highlighted the “And Then” in an effort to capitalize on a rather weak attempt at a joke without getting bogged down in the details….
So much for that lmfao….
:..D
Benjamin Button: The Cruciality of PISSING ME THE FUCK OFF
"Causality"
*visions of Eclipse intensity*
Kind of ironic to place the section about pacing directly after the 2 1/2 minute long pointless shoutouts that ruin the pacing
Das how I roll jr
Benjamin Buttons probably is Finchers worst,only competition would be Alien 3 I suppose.
I think given the story of the production of Alien 3, I can’t really count that in terms of the quality of his filmography.
@@MacabreStorytelling Yeah Fincher doesn't consider it to be one of his films either,but who knows Benjamin Buttons just might be worse than Alien 3