Why The Departed Sucks Redux
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
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(SPOILERS: The Departed [2006], Infernal Affairs [2002])
Some of you may remember my second video ever, entitled “Why The Departed Sucks”. And you may have noticed that I unlisted said video. The reason I did so is because, in retrospect, I don’t think it is emblematic of what the channel stands for today. Now, to be clear, I still stand by my claim that The Departed does in fact suck and believe I made strong arguments, but at the time, as I was still finding my style, I think I was trying too hard to emulate the whole “rage bro” aesthetic, which in turn soured the actual good points I made.
For that reason, its presence on the channel has bugged me for a while and I was torn as to how to address it; should I delete it, remake it? But then I settled on a different idea; in this video I will go over my original review and respond to my OWN arguments, stating where I think they are lacking and fleshing them out in a more constructive manner.
Original review: • Why The Departed Sucks
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Podcast Channel: / @nocritic
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[00:00] - Intro/Shoutouts
[01:53] - Sponsor
[03:00] - Why The Departed Sucks Redux
[29:30] - Outro/Patrons
MUSIC:
"Winner winner!" by Kevin Macleod 
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Make a video on why bald people deserve more respect
@@timothytzovolos153 Every Yul Brynner movie does that.
hi i was wondering if the got finale rewrite ever came out i can’t find it, thanks
@@victordelgado9253 not yet sorry kemosabe
@@MacabreStorytelling is it ever coming out?
I liked the film.
I liked the original review.
I liked the redux review.
I still like the film.
Your analysis is a great way to show how, no matter how "good" everything is on paper (director, actors, source material), poor execution will derail any project. Good on you for revising your tone, brother!
I thought the movie was good
@@scionixx9568the movie has a lot of flaws
@@scionixx9568 the movie is good.
@@yospidey0078 just because YOU think that, doesn’t mean others do. It’s all subjective
@@scionixx9568The movie is good
That’s it. This means war.
I’ve always loved the chaotic editing of this movie since it always had me questioning everything, when is this? who knows what? Who knows who? And kept me on my toes, yet after watching this I can’t help but agree that with all they changed or straight up left out it would have been a much better movie and is weakened by it, I never noticed how the Envelope never mattered, I will still love this movie but I understand that it’s far from perfect as I used to claim it was for so many years.
I said it on the OG video and I’ll say it again… I rewatched this and the editing is bananas. Like I can’t ever remember the order things happen in around the midpoint of the movie and there’s NO sense of a timeline or cause and effect from one scene to the next. I still like the movie because of the style and acting (Scorsese films are best when viewed as kind of “mood poems” with a story tacked on-Goodfellas is basically just one big montage that barely ever stops) but man is The Departed a weirdly paced and edited movie.
i feel like much of scorsese's 2000s work is jarring because of the poor editing. it definitely hurts my enjoyment while others don't seem to notice
I think the editing was more experimental than it was bad. I can see many of the techniques used later incorporated into Shudder Island which intentionally had disjointed and erratic editing
not really the editing was followable i didnt get confused at all.
@@lampad4549 same way
Who the fuck could get confused. Sometimes people make videos either not knowing shit about fuck or jsut straight up for clicks
@@scionixx9568
I think the passage of time issue is intentional, like when he breaks down and says he’s been uncover for a year the audience is supposed to be shocked. I think Scorsese is trying to emulate how little you actually notice the passage of time, especially when you are in as tense of a situation as Leo’s character. Many of his other movies depict the passage of time through memory, however this one attempts more to put you in the characters shoes through out the whole arc, and to contrast their arcs time flows more concurrently with the main beats of the story as a whole.
Nobody asked
Nobody has to. It's a comment section, where people can comment things without being asked.
It’s the same when he has that meeting with the officers (Wahlberg and Sheen) and they explain he will have to di 6 months in prison to come off as legit. Not 5 minutes go by in the film and he’s sat with his cousin in his aunts house. So I don’t think the time jumps are out of sinc the pace the film. They are consistent throughout.
@@chrisdawson1776 You're too slow to be allowed in public.
exactly, that first criticism is braindead. imagine thinking scorcese doesn't know what he's doing
You highlighted Costello's potential soft side, citing the scene where he tries to tell Billy to go back to school, and I have to say that I initially agreed when viewing the film the first few times, but over the years I've realized that the scene where Matt Damon finds out that his partner is also a rat was purposely to signify that Costello didn't care about anyone but saving his own ass. Costello raised Matt Damon with the same assurance, support, and direction that a general father is supposed to, but the reason he wanted Billy to be educated is the exact same reason that he wanted Matt Damon to be educated...... You're of more use to him smart rather than dumb, it all ties back to every move Frank makes is to serve his current or future interests.
Frank: come on Colin, I mean you were like uh...
Colin: A son?!
And when Matt Damon finds out that his partner is the exact same carbon copy of him, probably given the same opportunities and talk to the exact same way that Frank spoke to Matt, his entire world crashed around him.
I say all that to just say that I think Frank was never sentimental, he was always looking out for himself.
10:11 this is actually something that’s solved if you pay attention to the film. He’s accepted into the crew because Billy’s Uncle was an associate of Costello for years. Not to mention he liked Billy’s confidence and attitude. And he wouldn’t think that Billy is a rat because he’s been kicked out of the staties and recently done a 6 month stretch for assault and battery. He has doubts but he’s careful and he wants to be absolutely sure. That’s why he wants Collin to find out for him.
Except he literally theorizes that Queenan orchestrated kicking him out of the statues to send him undercover in the interrogation scene…
@@MacabreStorytellingwhich in his mind was satiated when he didnt crack under the torture. Not to mention billy had already committed assault when he beat up the mobsters in the convenince store scene since under cover cops can’t commit crime while under cover
@@MacabreStorytelling .....he theorizes that because he is a criminal mastermind and leader of a major organized crime group. He's in charge for being smart and not making bad decisions that get him locked up. So any potential new criminal associate will be examined closely and knowing he had been a cop would have made him wonder if he was still a cop that was there to set him up. The fact he did 4 months in jail would have been enough for other criminals in jail to get to know him and Frank could ask them if he was really locked up. Also, you are forgetting that Billy's Uncle Jackie was in organized crime and was connected to and highly respected by Frank and Arnold. The time lapses between the book and movie are expected and they happen in every movie that it adapted from a novel. If they had included everything you want this would have been a 5 plus hour long movie. I disagree with you on this take. The editing took a massive story and fit it into a reasonable time frame that people would sit in theaters for while still covering all the main points while constantly moving the story forward without it dragging it out aimlessly.
@@GigaChadh976, if I’m being honest, I thought the torture was pretty lame. I mean, I’m not sure what everyone’s pain tolerance is but a broken arm feels like an easy way to pass an interrogation test with a mob boss. I would’ve bought it more if they did something like Waterboarded Billy, acid, or even attempting to castrate him, yet he doesn’t break.
Also, I hear a lot of people comparing how he broke his arm being similar to the Infernal Affairs scene when Chan tries to stop one of Hon Sam’s dealing’s while hiding a Morse code device in his cast. Except as pointed out by Macabre, the reason why this works is because Sam is just as suspicious to who is the mole in his organization, and must use fear in order to see who cracks. Which is why him smashing Chan’s cast works better than in The Departed.
@@osmanyousif7849his arm has been broken before hand and then its being smashed with a steel toe boot. Which i take it has never happened to you.
“He hides a morse code device in his cast.” Ok, let me spell it out to you: if you have a broken arm, your not gonna be able to use that arm to use morse code. Thats retarded. It makes more sense in the movie where billy keeps his phone and texts queenan and dignham.
And costello DOES use fear to see who cracks. In this scene and in the scene with the severed hand. Not to mention costello is shown killing several of his old associates.
Lau and Collin have very different motives. Collin is petrified of his lower class background and staying there. He will do Anything to climb the social ladder. You see this pop up in the movie several timeswhen he is purchasing the apartment, when Madeline wants to put up her state school degree he tells her to not put it up because it doesn’t look prestigious, he kisses the butt of the ppl in the department to climb up the ranks. There’s a lot of dialogue that alludes to this, but it talks about it in a very Irish Bostonian sort of way that not everyone can pick up on
The movie doesn't work because the characters don't act like real people.
For instance: Colin never really seems to like Costello. Yes, Costello helped him as a kid, helped him get into the State Police etc. Afterwards, Colin seems to act in obligation to Costello, but, he doesn't admire Costello, he's not interested in being in the Irish mob, he's not keen to make money from Costello, he doesn't seem to need money, or anything from Costello.
Yes, he gets some tips from Costello which help him rise the ranks.
But once he's already admired, as is shown in the film, why not just cut Costello off ?
Use him to make some cases, and then, lock him up and destroy any evidence that they ever had connections. Deny it, if Costello makes the claim in court.
It's not like Colin was totally inept as a detective. He was quick witted and could investigate and solve cases without Costello's help.
Colin appears to admire Alec Baldwin's character more than Costello.
Then, if Costello gets locked up, Colin gets the praise, the accolades, and the admiration for locking up Costello. He'll get promoted.
Look at the real life Mafia cops, who worked for Gaspipe Casso, and actually murdered for him. Why did they do it ?
Because they admired Casso. One of them even wrote a book called "Mafia Cop". He was a cop who idolised the Mafia and wanted to be in it. They Mafia Cops never wanted to be good cops, they were bad guys, but since they couldn't join the Mafia, they decided to help the Mafia as police instead. They also needed the money as their pay from the NYPD was not enough.
The same goes for that cop who was on the payroll of the Bloods and Suge Knight. His name was Rafael Pérez I think. And all the cops who were corrupt in the Rampart scandal. They idolised the Bloods.
Colin never seems to idolise - in his adult life - the Irish mob. Never seems to admire Costello. He gets some tips from him to take down the Italians.
Once that's done, a real life Colin would turn on Costello. Or, he'd go all in, and do bodyguard work for Costello, talking about how much he admires the Irish mob and so on.
But he never does that. His motivation isn't loyalty to the Irish mob. His motivation is career success.
It just shows the characters aren't written as real people. It doesn't seem like they were well-thought out. They're basically ciphers for dialogue.
Also: the real life FBI agent who helped Whitey Bulger, again, admired Bulger and believed Bulger was the lesser of two evils compared to the Boston Italian Mafia.
That's not what Costello believes, or, it's never shown, or depicted in any way.
You're actually speculating about people's motives in real life? lol
In the Infernal Affairs, since no one but Lau knew about the mole thing and Chan knows that he would sabotage the police file of Chan, Chan had to blackmail him so Lau could recover his idendity first. Also because he wasn't sure if there was any other mole in the police, had he handed the tape to them too soon, it could ruin him too. So I guess the rooftop scene in the original version wasn't pointless
But also, because if Chan said something now, Lau probably has the whole PD in the palm of his hands, and be telling everyone to not listen to him, maybe say that he’s suffering from something. But in The Departed because of the inclusion of characters, like Dignam and Trooper Brown, it throws away any sort of tension that should be in the final act. As they would obviously listen to Billy.
They definitely should have thrown in a line about Costello being Billy's Godfather. That really would have made a substantial difference for the better.
Maybe even try to give Costello some morality instead of just being your average psycho mob boss. Sure Jack Nicholson is great at playing psychos, but come on. A character like Costello, could’ve had some interesting morality which can lead to questioning whether or not he truly cares for Billy and Colin, as a son.
Why exactly? What would that have changed?
@@osmanyousif7849 he doesn’t. His character is based off whitey Bulger who was a stone cold sociopath. The film made it clear from the beginning that Costello was only using the two as pawns
I like the Departed and you present clear & well articulated arguments about it's flaws. I agree with your points however I still like the movie. This film is a good demonstration of how quick pacing and Dynamite performances can paper over a lot of flaws.
The acting by the Andy Lau as Lau Kin-ming during the funeral scene is superb. You can really feel his guilt over Chan's death.
Hey man love your stuff. Can you please do some more sopranos breakdowns!! I love how you break it down and get deep into it!! Something on Christopher would be sick!!
well done, it's really hard to check oneself when being critical and want your opinion to be impactful, but to go back and explain yourself and make your arguments more cohesive and concise is definitely moving in the right direction
When you bring up the fact that Costigan didn't need the envelope because he was going to get the tapes I feel like you leave out one thing: he needed the tapes for iron-clad proof that Collins was the mole. You bring up how you "suppose" that the envelope given to Madolyn by Billy is evidence, except: it totally is. She ends up playing it outloud for Collins to hear to show she knows who he really is. That's not only the payoff of having Billy get the tapes but its also the payoff of him personally giving Madolyn a tape, something you all but gloss over to make your argument work.
No I don’t. The tapes aren’t unnecessary, him finding the envelope is. As I say in the vid, he could have just left and would have gotten the tapes and discovered the truth without finding the envelope. Also by Costello you mean Billy. Also I think you are getting confused. I was talking about the envelope he finds in Colin’s office not the one he gives to Madolyn. Also you are wrong. The envelope Billy gives to her is a separate envelope. What she plays is the tape Billy sends to Colin in the mail.
You gotta pay attention to the movie bro…
Thanks a lot for this video, it finally explained why I didn't feel blown away by the Departed after seeing it. I'm a big fan of Infernal Affairs (the sequels weren't as good, but at least they were kind of interesting), so I was so excited to finally watch the Departed. It had the perfect cast and crew, won all the big Oscars, and I heard many say that it was a remake that surpassed the original. After watching it, I felt underwhelmed because it didn't really add anything new to the original. All my favorite parts of the Departed are almost directly translated from Infernal Affairs, whereas I had been expecting the movie to take the central concept and do its own spin of it rather than copy the plot beat for beat (it won Best Adapted Screenplay at the Oscars after all). But this video reveals that the film didn't even translate those elements in a way that made them better, but rather made them feel less meaningful.
One plot weakness is Queenan asking Billy to do it “for me” …. Billy has NO relationship w Queenan at this point and has no loyalty owed to Q.
This is such a great video! I remember watching its original incarnation, before I had even watched The Departed and had forgot about it entirely until I finally watched the film and wanted to revisit your review. You articulate your points so well, I think it explains a lot of the reasons why this film didn't feel like Scorsese's others and why I was somewhat underwhelmed by it. Thank you!
Off topic, Vera Farmiga in this movie looks exactly like my sociology professor from college, so I spent all of her screen time wondering if she'd mention Émile Durkheim or Karl Marx!
This was cool, this to me is kind of like a hangout movie so I can overlook a lot of its blemishes since it’s a really fun movie, aside from its overuse of Patsy Cline. I agree about Vera Farmiga’s character, the love triangle was literally about Damon’s character getting cucked. I laughed out loud during the funeral scene when it just pans to a photo of Leo’s face, as if he’s saying, “yea you got cucked bro.”
Thank you for taking the time to share your introspective analysis with us. My journey to peace is inward, not forward; and I don't meet many people who are interested in productive and effective self-analysis - so I'm grateful to have listened to your thoughts. It's beautiful.
Didn't know that an earlier draft of the script had Costello as Billie's godfather. No idea why they decided to change that.
What mic do you use now?
I do get your point about Madolyn, and i agree with your argument, but however:
That's Prime Vera Farmiga 🥵🔥
You are not incorrect.
Costello being Billy’s godfather has a lot of precedence. Frank ‘The Enforcer’ Nitti was the cousin of his own employer Al Capone.
This is actually one of my favorite movies, BUT…
I’ve NEVER understood how it couldn’t be hilariously obvious that the snitch is the “new guy” who wasn’t ever in the game/has zero rep.
The Departed is one of those man movies like Fight Club or American Psycho, you keep running into dudes who really love it. Not every guy is in love with it, but it seems to have deep appeal for some significant portion of men.
I think you carry a very high level of estrogen
Nahhhh
Eh, not exactly.
I don't think there's anyone itching to be Jack Nicholson's character.
Hell, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be anyone in the movie
@@eddiedingle767 That's a fair point. I wasn't trying to say that men like it in the same way or the men who love those movies are the same as men who love the Departed, just that it seems like there's a good portion of (mostly) men who they really strike a chord with.
It is a very cool movie. I am sure women like things that they find cool too... Like shows endlessly gossiping about other women.
Your first video on The Departed is how I originally discovered your channel. I liked the movie before watching the video, but after not so much. I didnt like the videos tone especially, but your points were so convincing, I had no other choice but to aggree with you eventho I was a bit mad. Now I can finally aggree with you without being mad. Thanks, this Redux was a blessing!
My favorite part of the entire movie was the elevator scene where everybody except Matt Damon gets killed in succession. (I must admit that seeing Leonardo Dicaprio get killed as the elevator opened, took me by surprise lol)
True. The Departed feels like collection of scenes sewed together in editing room with pool of characters and known star actos instead of cohesive story that follows through.
Love that you were willing to revisit and rework an old video! Great video and makes me really want to watch Infernal Affairs (I didn't know this was a remake)
If you get the chance, check out the Infernal Affairs Trilogy. The Departed felt like it was a rush job. Let alone, Infernal Affairs 2 and 3 delves into the characters at a young age and the aftermath of the first film. It will definitely make The Departed look like an after-school special.
I remember seeing the film in theaters and when walking out, turned to my friends and said, "there is no way Costello wouldn't have known Billy was the mole. He would have killed him almost immediately. He's the new guy, he was statie, and oh there's a mole, I wonder who it could be?!?!" absurd film
For the record when I watched your original takedown of The Departed, I was seething at your tone at the beginning but gradually became more and more convinced by the end, especially because I've always liked Infernal Affairs. I have no doubt that if you'd just measured your tone a bit more, people in the original video would have had to confront your arguments directly instead of making fun of your attitude which is much easier, glad you took the channel in that direction
I don’t think The Departed sucks, but it does pale in comparison to the film it was based on, especially how it wimped out on the ending.
Not even close, delusional af
Ya know, it's interesting that you said in an earlier draft Costello was Billy's godfather, because that makes so much sense to me. That's actually the exact feeling I got from their relationship.
Old video: 😎 new video:🤓
You are now well poisitioned to tackle The Aviator... You know what to do.
It is those subtle things that are the difference between a masterpiece and just a fun film. You are always spot on pinpointing these shortcomings. Sometimes, I just think to myself that a film could have been better or have this unspecific dissatisfaction at the end. Your insight is amazing.
Still one of my favorite movies to watch, but you bring up pretty solid criticism that I can’t really argue against, well said once again.
The one thing I have true gripes with is the ending, while it was super great in my first time viewing the film,in subsequent rewatches it’s really illogical and is just subverting expectations for the sake of it.
Mac daddy, you’re not wrong on any of these points. Alas, this movie is somehow still steadfastly in my all time top 3 - it’s NO masterpiece but that said, I don’t entertain any arguments about its Oscar merits either, considering that the Academy Awards has long since evolved into a sanctimonious virtue-signalling exercise in self-congratulation rather than recognition of quality cinema (whatever THOSE parameters might be, because the ones most ‘professional’ film critics set are hilariously irrelevant and inane)
I can overlook everything else, if the meeting on the roof wasn’t so stupid, as you said. Finding out that it is also in the original is disappointing. it does a terrible disservice to Billy’s character. This man was not foolish and had proved his intelligence.
It makes a tad more sense in the original again since their is no Dignam but yeah it’s still mad contrived.
I know this movie takes so many of the beats from infernal affairs but Scorsese made his own film, which was written up to be due to the fact the film is in Boston, of all the little things, which made him want to shoot in a different direction and make it so the movie is not entirely a remake and is just heavily inspired by the concept and plot. I mean the execution is clearly different because the goals of the concept are different. That’s to say it used a similar formula to achieve a different result. It’s a entertaining movie, and it’s nonsensical realism plays into my enjoyment. Like did you see that ending? It felt so weird but it made the movie just wrap up in such an enjoyable way. Idk I’m no principled critic who has something I’m drawing off of in order to say the movie is good, but by my arbitrary standards I think the movie is entertaining. Might just be an admittance of a lower quality standard but hey I was convinced alright I’m talking to myself I’m done here alright bye
The debate in the comments section for that video was lit, I wish you would relist it so I could peruse it again.
I like that this review compares the movie to the original. When I heard Scorsese was making a new movie based on Infernal Affairs, I went and watched Infernal Affairs and was surprised at how much I liked it and then I was truly shocked at how disappointed I was with The Departed, especially when Goodfellas and Casino are still one of my favorite movies.
Hey Macabre. Do you watch better call saul? It is amazing. If you don't watch you should, then make videos
I actually love both films. I personally enjoy watching The Departed more because of the performances, but I welcomed this criticism! Good video, man.
Tell me you're a virgin without saying it
Him:
You made great points, however The Departed is a 10/10 for me. Some flaws, sure but nothing major and it’s easily my favorite film. Either way, this is a well thought out and articulate video and you’ve earned a new subscriber.
Great video, will watch Infernal Affairs asap
Is the title an Updike reference?
My man, thanks for this. On the first video i just really liked hearing you speak your opinion. But on this one, i really do feel what you were trying to get at: the story, as bad/ok/good as it is, doesn't come close to the original.
It's hard to imagine Colin getting the same fate as Lau considering Scorsese's tendencies about punishing his characters. Scorsese often puts characters through a temptation, the characters live it up, and then is punished harshly for those indulgences. The closest a Scorsese character comes to getting a Lau style ending where the punishment is mostly internal is Jordan Belfort from Wolf of Wall Street.
YES! I thought this for so long but even as a Scorsese skeptic I thought I was alone
Thanks on the articulation of legit doubts
Like earned
Please put it back up lol i enjoyed napping to it
Carmen Sandiego ad Mac. This video is worth it for that alone.
Honestly, your original video was fine by me, and I have followed you from the beginning and give or take improvement on sound and some changes of tone, I think you kept a pretty consistent style, so (as someone who doesn't despise "The Departed" as much as you I just saw it as you showing your content for it, and you got hevery right to). I dunno, I guess RUclipsrs can be too self-critical sometimes but honestlyI think most RUclipsrs who started their career late last decade or this one have done less evolution in quality than those who started early last decade or 2 decades ago. Just see any RUclipsr's video from 2008 and you see what I mean (yeah, that gives me higher standards on "bad audio"). I appreciate you wanting to be at your best, but don't be too self-critical or create too much pressure on yourself. Take care dude.
Hey broskies have you watched Everything Everywhere All at Once yet? I liked it a WHOLE lot. There’s so much going on though, I wonder if that makes it difficult to discuss.
Based film
@@MacabreStorytelling based review.
There is a Belgium tv show called 'Undercover' where an undercover cop infiltrades crime sindicates and becomes best friends with the bosses so he can uptain conclusive evidence so a SWAT can arrest them. In the 3rd and final season, the villians of set season have a mole planted in the police presinct and so the protagonist has to team up with the villian from season 1, because using police resources would tip the drug dealers off. However, there is a twist. It turns out that the mole isn't a person, but a computer virus and the moment the the cops figure this out, our protagonist is able to rejoin the police.
Now plz don't scream spoilers. It's a Belgium tv show and I highly doubt that this comment section is filled with people who are Belgium/Dutch.
Why aren’t you getting more views?? I love the departed but I really like this video and your others lol
I respect the criticisms of this movie but despite hearing them I still enjoy the hell out of this movie on every viewing.
Maybe I didn't listen closely enough to the video, but I got the distinct impression that you've never actually understood the movie. We have to bear in mind that in your original review you thought the story took place in New Jersey? How extensive can your thoughts and notes really be?
It is okay to criticize a remake for doing what the original did in a way that proves the remake doesn't understand it, _unless the remake has its own rationale,_ then you're just whining that the remake isn't exactly the same as the original. That you don't like that it's different is your prerogative, but it is *not* proof that the movie "sucks."
Let me go over a "short" list of problems I recognized:
The busing sequence is not to establish "how the Irish were treated" - this is actually a laughably ignorant interpretation of history if not what's being portrayed on screen. It's to establish the Boston setting as a place not too long ago where the people are so stubborn and abrasive that desegregation initiatives might actually lead to riots, even as we approach the 1980's. That the people of Boston, in enclaves, each stick to their own. A big theme in the movie is crossing "boundaries"
This is one of the reasons Costello is less cautious of Billy than he ought to be, he didn't just know Billy's father, he respected him, and his mother, just like his top guy respected his grandmother. Billy is already established as a guy who can drift between two different worlds, and uses a hotheaded streak to pass as a tough guy. Especially with violence that is excessive for a police agent. He's already one of their people, because they've known him, through his family, their entire lives. This is what Queenan is exploiting, it's *not* very likely the police will pull a trainee and use an untrained and unseasoned rookie for a life or death operation. It's the fact that Billy already fakes being that guy every time he ends up in that part of town - ever since he was a kid - that convinces Queenan he has the _life experience_ necessary to pull off such a delicate balancing act. Yes, it is obvious, that the wannabe cop, is a cop, but it's almost _too obvious,_ the fact that the audience already knows Costigan is the mole might make it hard for them to see how much of a stretch this still is from Costello's perspective. It would be much easier for the Staties or the local PD, to turn one of his existing guys, and the movie goes out of its way to demonstrate that everyone is a mole. Costello himself is a mole. He's always got new guys coming in, and his problems didn't start with Costigan. He's suspicious, so he keeps him close and he's always testing him, but Costigan, being smart, never gives himself away, even when his superiors push him to take those risks.
Another thing you're really bad at here is subtext. The "distasteful gay subplot" is actually an implication that Collin was inappropriately touched as an alter boy, Costello fosters loyalty by presumably resolving the issue when taking him under his wing. Collin exhibits hyper-masculinized homophobic behavior and sexual impotency because he has unresolved intimacy issues brought about by the psychological trauma. He may even have sought a relationship with a therapist, as a way to subconsciously admit his need for therapy. There's an additional implication and less popular fan theory that Costello is secretly Costigan's _father_ not his godfather. Which probably would have been changed specifically to make this subtext less obvious. Though I suppose given what evidence exists for this, such as it is, he could even be his grandfather. Either way it makes no difference how the relationsip is labeled. Either because of shared history or shared blood, he obviously treats him like family
But the worst analysis has to be of the ending. Costigan cannot just turn over evidence to the police and have Collin arrested because he doesn't know who is trustworthy within the police ranks. You have to actually think about this. Collin accused Queenan of being the mole. Queenan was killed "meeting with Costello's guys." _Dignam is Queenan's guy,_ he's also a disgruntled, former employee who punched the guy who fired him on the way out the door - the _same_ guy they're going to say is the *real* mole, with a box of evidence he can claim was just him acting in his official capacity as a law enforcement agent? So not only does Billy not like Dignam, isn't completely sure that he can trust him to have his back, they don't, collectively, have any evidence that he was anything other than a criminal, because he was so deep cover. The last time Costigan turned himself over, the guy who processed him was a mole. As Collin says Costigan's plan is not very bright, and as Billy says he doesn't care. He just wanted a confrontation with the guy, to put the handcuffs on for himself and walk him through the front door, even if it was futile. And yes, while context alone would explain how Costello's other mole "figured out" Collin was Costello's big man on the inside, you do _actually_ have good reason to be asymmetrically selective with your information. Having an officer inside who knows Collin is the mole, without Collin knowing, is partial insurance. He can monitor Collin and report back his progress, without having to rely exclusively on Collin's word. Especially if Collin tries in his capacity as a police administrator to cut ties with Costello and his organization, which he eventually does do anyway.
So like... no. I'm not convinced.
I seriously thought Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon were the same character and they were doing some weird back/forth time thing with the editing. It made everything a jumble. Then they both showed up in the same scene and I was like ooooohhhhhhh.
Then the thing went on to win an Oscar and have consoled myself with that it was the pity prize for Marty.
If that’s genuinely what you thought then I have no words
Pulp Fictions the same, right? One scene John Travolta's dead then two minutes later he's sat in a cafe!
Totally.
I read the film as Costello refusing to face the obvious.
This is incongruous with the character's motivations.
This alone ruined the movie for me.
Boston, though. What a town!
You can technically say that Infernal Affairs made it ambiguous as to whether Chan told the police about Lau being the mole beforehand. Granted, the film did a poor job articulating what happened, but we don't really know what happened after Lau got out of the elevator. If we're being charitable, we can imagine that Lau was still arrested because the police got Chan's report, but because the other mole erased the tapes already, and Lau sold them the story of the other mole being the only mole, Lau was cleared of all charges.
Did Mac delete his discord? I was in it and then it suddenly vanished a couple months ago.
We switched it to Patreon only so it can be accessed via there
24:47 "undergoed" I believe you mean underwent.
Something about real life examples of real organized crime bosses brought down by the "new guy".
Damn Frank being Bills GF would absolutely reframe the entire movie and the entire character of Frank. Cuz I agree, how did Frank not know Billy was the mole lol super obvious
FINALLY someone has the courage to say it.
The training sequence was very frustrating. It was confusing how Damon got a detective job fresh out of school
Yeah it wasn’t a big deal when I was younger but as I got older I was like wait wtf
Thats why the scenes of him playing Rugby and that scene of him doing a bust earlier in the film are there, to show that he didn't come straight out of the Academy to a detective role, he actually had to earn it.
On a first watch, it may confuse you but it's noticeable on multiple rewatches. This is a film that needs to be seen more than once
@@crater044 that seems like a cop out. The editing makes it seem like they are in training at roughly the same time.
@@MacabreStorytelling Its not a cop out but I guess you're the editing expert dude. I've only seen the film enough times to understand whats going on.....what do I know? 🤷
@@MacabreStorytelling thats just unrealism like most movies and tv shows.
I LOVE The Departed - and every single one of these is points is true. These things always felt off to me and I never recognized them. *edit wtf, the alternative explanation for Costelo and Billy's knowing eachother would have made so much more sense.
Your channel will grow so much from your choice to have a more relaxed approach to your thoughts and opinions. I look forward to every upload regardless. Your always having a conversation with us. You have a smooth way of including us as the audience..my only complaint...not enough videos!! Haha keep up the good work !!
❤️
I commend you for going through your early material with the backbone to follow through on it. I found your channel from your Watchmen tv-series video two years ago, which I really enjoyed. I ended up going through "the archives" for more content and no, the original departed video does not represent your content today. The less said about that video, the better. Unlisting it alone is sort of brave honestly, as this "redux" type of video will just be for the fans of your channel.
I love the departed for what is is, but it does need you to "turn off your brain" at very specific moments which isnt great. Once I heard about the "Godfather" relation it made.. So much more sense. "Costello trusted me more than anybody" never hit right with me as it just felt like.. "Well, he got lucky didnt he? Must have been a true pit of vipers he surrounded himself with"
I am 10 months late to the party at the time of writing this comment, but I truly wish you the best of luck and the success your talent and judgement promises.
"Insufferable twat" is really too harsh. I actually saw the Korean original first, recognized all the points you were making in your vid, never felt you were off-base given the qualitative disparity. Anyway, nice 2nd take-down haha
Am I the only one who keeps getting confused on what's going on in this film because they have these very similar looking white guys, Leonardo DiCarprio and Matt Damon (Also Mark Walhberg), sharing the screen together?
Oh wow I was actually looking for this video the other day and thought I gaslit myself into believing it existed and got deleted for whatever reason💀 Glad to see it’s back and improved now. Thank you!
This hasn't been downvoted by the entire population of Boston, so far so good
This is porbably the low point in the careers of everyone who worked on this film. Jack Nicholson, Scorsese and De Carprio probably all wanna forget about tbis
29:00 This is an excellent argument. Its a fun watch due to the All Star cast but on subsequent rewatch the pacing issues, storytelling issues, characterization issues make it hard to enjoy the film.
This makes me so glad I didn't see Infernal Affairs before I watched The Departed. I actually haven't seen IA yet, I really need to get on that. I remember when The Departed came out, my uncle and I were very much anticipating it's DVD release, and the night we watched it we smoked half of a doobie beforehand and it was GREAT! I smoked like a chimney back then, but my unc not so much, so he was high as fuck lol. It was such a great night, though, and could have been marginally worse if I had seen IA beforehand. Glad you made this, you really did a fantastic job. I'm bout to watch IA presently.
The Departed is one of the best movies of all time
Objectively false
@@MacabreStorytellingno he's objectively right
@@MacabreStorytellingyou don't have taste go watch Twilight dude
I just rewatched The Departed -- I like it still -- and immediately thought of your video on the film because it was on my mind. I agree with most of your criticisms -- though they're not deal breakers -- but I would like to point out that your first point of the intercutting between DiCaprio's and Damon's characters might be a little more intentional than it seems. There is one specific scene, the moment DiCaprio's character meets Martin Sheen's character, and that was proceeded by Damon's character meeting Sheen. And its implied by the shot language thay it's all happening in the same day. So maybe the film changed that element of the script?
Here's the scene: ruclips.net/video/vInFuLgwR1U/видео.htmlsi=_djopvGqoA2gMdY3
Lets get this man to 100000 subs already
One of my favorite films and the timeline was never an issue for me. You can assume time went by, maybe even a few years, but that never seems to hurt the plot. It's minor point at best.
Could’ve been a 3.5 hour movie.. more than KOTFM 😅😂
8:15 Couldn't they tatted Billy up at least? 26:13 I applaud your self awareness 👏 one thing i first noticed with your original video was the feedback. The dislikes and the overwhelming amount of comments that were not going your way because of the delivery and the movie/Scorsese fanbase. So you already had a few things going against you (the title lf the video drew me in instantly). 16:18 Because of those things the majority of people were overlooking what you had to say firing back insults or not listening at all. I've seen a few comments giving you your shake who overlooked your meanness and actually listened to what you had to say who i think were reasonable people. I look back and think why is this video getting so much hate? HE HAS A GOOD ARGUMENT! but like you said you casted a shadow over your own video. Two reasons why i listened to you, was because your harshness did not affect me at all and i've been "feeling a type of way" with The Departed that i couldn't describe after all these years of watching it and your video validated what i felt. So i related. 26:27 One thing that not only you but other content creators should do is write down ✍ a list of things you have to come back to (that you mentioned early in your videos) so whenever you make something long you don't forget. And i mean literally write it down ✏.
You really do make some valid points, and I can respect that you put yourself in check for the first video. I still like the movie, but the more you think about it, it really is a bastardized re writing of Infernal Affairs
When I watched it thinking it was a serious movie, I hated it.
When I watched it seeing it as a comedy, I loved it.
I'm very curious to see how this goes. I'm usually in the ballpark of Mac's takes, but I quite like the Departed, in fact I'd put it ahead of Casino, The Aviator and maybe even Raging Bull in Scorsese's filmography (though behind Taxi Driver, WoWS and Goodfellas). I guess that's because it works on a scene to scene level so well, creating tension and maintaining his trademark pace (s/o to Thelma Schoonmaker), as well as on a deeper thematic level. I'm one of those people that always read Matt Damon's character as deeply closeted, with on screen evidence to support that, and the parallels about living a double life, and the tension between your expected and authentic self make the movie have a lot more to say than most crime flicks. My 2 cents anyway. Eager to watch your analysis.
This is literally everything I felt after I watched the movie. I just felt like it was my least favorite of Scorsese’s filmography (I’ve seen about half of his films so far). I just felt it was so badly executed
The Irishman is worse.
There’s movies you can hit and movies you can’t. Now, thats not quite a movie you can’t hit, but its almost a movie you can hit. So I’m gonna make a fuckin ruling on this right now: you don’t fucking hit it! In all seriousness though, you brought up some very valid points. Great video
Its funny how we can just go into autopilot when watching a movie. I never thought about the rooftop scene near the end, and how ridiculous Billy's decision to meet Collin there, rather than just turning over evidence directly to the police. Maybe he was worried Collin might escape before getting arrested due to his connections in the department. But this as well is easily avoidable if Billy gives the evidence directly to Dignam instead of Captain Ellerby.
The other silly decision I just noticed was Dignam's choice of killing Collin off the books. I guess you could make the argument that he took the killing of Captain Queenan and Billy on a personal level, and just wanted the pleasure of killing Collin himself. However, I still think Dignam would have done the legal thing, and just arrest him. He may have been an asshole, but he still displayed a boy scout mentality when it came to rule of law; only breaking it in the least amount possible if it guaranteed true justice. And he had plenty of evidence to guarantee Collin would go to prison. Plus, going to prison is more of a punishment for Collin anyway; instead of just exiting life with a bullet, he would be in a form of hell, stuck there for life.
Why would billy go to the police when he knows thats Costello has informants of his own? The only people in the police he could trust for certain is dignam.
@@GigaChadh976 I think you missed the last sentence of my first paragraph. I point out this exact issue, and come to the same conclusion. Not to mention, going to Dignam is still going to the police, he's only on temporary suspension, he's not retired. With all of Billy's evidence, Dignam would have all he needs to ensure this case gets handled correctly at the precinct. At least well enough to take down Collin.
Majin WeeBae would be pretty scary
I loved Infernal affairs so much, glad it was not only because I am biased about HK cinema
It seems like the fundamental criticism of The Departed is that it’s not as good as Infernal Affairs.
It is not a masterpiece like Good Fellas, but I have watched several times and I bought the Blu Ray, something I do with very few movies. If it were straight bad, I wouldn’t do that.
I think it is entertaining but flawed, which is not the same thing as bad.
when you're so angry you have an argument with yourself
jk I do this at least 7 times weekly
Hmmm… I dunno, I think the implication that Colin might be gay is plausible. There is that scene with the realtor where he gets defensive at the “you tend to have a house guest. That’s cool.”
comment. Seems unnecessary if they weren’t at least trying to put out a vibe.
Scorsese isn’t the kind of filmmaker to have throwaway dialogue. Colin’s first dialogue in the movie is him insulting firefighters being gay out of the blue. Colin insults the firefighters just to cover his own insecurity of being attracted to men.
I think the point Scorsese is trying to make is Colin is already use hiding a double life despite being Costello’s rat.
@@petermj1098calling someone a faggot is common and its used to insult people. The theory that collin is gay is weak
i have to ask would infernal affairs be better than the departed?