I own a Carpet Cleaning Company. One of my machines is having an electrical problem. I've been a long-time viewer of your channel. I started watching your videos with absolutely no mechanical skills. But I can comfortably say because of your videos, I now have the confidence to take apart my machine and try to fix it myself. Got it all taken apart, couldn't fix it and now I can't figure out how to put it back together. It's fucked now. But that's not important, what's important here, is you gave a fucking dummy like me the confidence to do it. And for that I salute you my friend! AVE you are a damn LEGEND!
AVE gave me the false confidence to take apart my leaf blower to replace the bearing. I broke it taking it apart, glued it back together, the right royally fuckered it on final assembly. then it let the smoke out. The nut was truly behind the steering wheel on that project.
Charles McBride OK , so now you're at the part where you call wife's life insurance policy / new boyfriend fund. Then put your mother on speedial, and engage the safety squints.
John Phillip well I think I like your father in laws thinking. I'd almost say you married up , but then again you're hang in out in ave's alley of the internet 😄
Just wanted to say thanks for the motivation! A few months ago in a vijeo you told us to build stuff whether it been with cardboard or anything. I built a soap dispenser and clap on clap off tv remote with an Arduino and I just got a new really great job with an engineering company! Thanks:D
As a fully paid up member of the back of the class, I have to say, I nearly understood this. I am a visual learner so nuts and bolts and everything in between comes easy to me. Electricity is so much harder because I can't see it. Because you showed us slowly and clearly with the meters, the penny is starting to drop. My brain still has to visualise pixies flowing down the cables etc rather than just doing maths, but it works for me.
I am DIGGIN' the sound of that warehouse. It's AvE in church: "Reading now from Paul's Letters to the Philippinos, chapter 7, verses 23-25: Speaketh thou not of failure to chooch, lest ye be branded a sissy-man. Rejoice, one and all! Skookum art those that bring tools to bear upon machines in tribulation!"
1961? This lift was ten years old when I started fixing forklifts. Notice how the seat is up in the air? The seat brake actuates whenever the driver falls off the truck. If you sit on it or tie it down, the seat brake will release and you can continue the troubleshooting. (either that or you will have fixed the problem... red face) If you ARE holding the seat down and are still bound up, maybe the push rod connected to the seat isn't going down far enough, or the linkage at the bottom is twisted, worn, or damaged; or maybe a spring is broken.. The brake assembly should be on the end of the drive motor. You can feel the linkage by reaching under the truck, but be warned, it can get crusty down there. Also, for trucks that have sat unused for a long time, it's possible that the shoes have stuck to the drum. (if you get good fwd travel though this won't be the case) Also, it's nice (imperative) to do all this troubleshooting with the drive wheels off the ground. A good way to do that is: tilt all the way back, put wood or steel blocks under the upright rails, then tilt forward. The drive wheels should rise up as the front edge of the rail goes down. There are almost certainly not brakes on the steer wheels. Also, 100 amps should be plenty enough to move the truck so I wouldn't worry about voltage drop just yet. My advice: lift the drive wheels, travel in forward for twenty seconds then feel under the truck for a smoking hot seat brake drum. (or disk) (probably drum) Keep your gloves on. It looks like this may be a resistor truck. Drive speed in them is regulated bu huge ass resistors under the floorboard. Trace the cables from those two contractors on the right. Post the model and serial number next video and I may be able to send you a schematic.
That should be "contactors" not contractors, stupid spell check. Also after reading comments.... people guessing as to how this thing is wired... Most likely: Negative goes to A1, through the armature, and emerges at A2. A2 goes to the common NC connection at the directional contactors. The directional contactors change direction of travel by flipping the direction of the current from F1 to F2 or F2 to F1. After the fields the path to positive goes through the speed control, which on this truck looks like resistors. Someone noticed how that battery was about to drop out the bottom of the truck. Good eye. If it's resting on the steer wheels that could be your problem right there.
Chop Cuc - 👍 .... and the best place to do that would be at the motor. . Note: The 7 volt difference in battery volts drop from each side is strange.... I Also thought fork lift trucks used multiple 2v high current capacity units in series/parallel as necessary. )
Jesus von Nazaret Then quick, pick up a new pet bird at the local pet shop so that it can beep again! Clearly it’s just in a state of depression and mourning.
J DeWitt No kidding, back then they had the more primitive “ka-thud...ka-thud!”. It’s not as impressive as back then, but at least the modern “beep beep” doesn’t set off the seismic sensors, though it’s much rougher on the hearing!
I enjoy the tool tear downs but I would really like to see more videos like this. I used to work on golf cars and I have fond memories of trouble shooting stuff just like this.
gknewby my first job in high school was fixing golf carts with my dad. The electric ones were PFM to my dad and he couldn't figure them out. And i couldn't rebuild gas engines. I did the electrics, it worked out perfectly
I have a lot of Canadian made tools from the late 80's and 90's. The previous owner of our house in the Bahamas left them behind, when we sold, I took them. Good quality tools. Great video!
Hot damn, an AvE video about something I actually sort of know about! Granted, every electric forklift I've driven has been young enough to be this thing's progeny, and the place I drove them for wouldn't even let us maintain the batteries (it was always fun to look at the invoices from the technicians they hired to do that and see just how many extra zeroes were on that guy's paycheck compared to mine), but the familiarity's there regardless During my last few weeks at that job, I was driving an order picker (basically an electric forklift that you stand on the forks for) and fell off the fuckin' thing trying to manhandle something or another off a high rack. Got to hang there off my safety lanyard for twenty minutes while everybody in the building got their pictures while the bossman tried to figure out where the manual release valve was for lift boom hydraulics because, of course, we weren't supposed to service these things, so nobody had any training on them beyond the controls and how to hook them to a charger. Those five point harnesses crush your nuts something fierce.
Doubt it could have killed me, never even really cut off blood to my legs. It crushed my balls because I actually had the thing adjusted right- i.e. it grabbed me and held me by my hips rather than digging into my thighs, so bloodflow wasn't really an issue. Plus, I could (and did, a few times) reach up and just hoist myself up a bit on the lanyard to take some weight off the harness. They should have had emergency procedures, but my experiences working at big corpo locations like that (not gonna say where exactly, might need a job with them again some time in the future, y'never know) is that fuckin' everything slips through the cracks until something bad happens. They never even did basic stuff like explaining fire escape routes or what severe weather protocols we had were.
Well but it's not all heat, you are using a motor so you are going to convert most of it to kinetic energy. So probably only 100w heat if the motor is not that efficient
Valentino Saitz No. We are talking about the voltage drop, which is 7V and voltage over the motor is 36-7 = 29V. The current through the whole circuit is 128A. So the motor takes 29V x 128A is 3712W. And the 'seat heating', takes 7V x 128A = 896W. The total power is 3712W + 896W = 4608W, which is the same as 36V x 128A.
TGIF I got time to watch both tonight! Shop closed a bit early too, I think tonight will be a good night. Plus I'm finishing that show, One Punch Man. I'm not an anime guy but that show is a good watch.
Gearbox issue? Bearings go out, suddenly it will roll in one direction and binds in the other? Had that happen with a John Deere B. Wouldn't go more than 6" forward, in reverse it would go all day. Dad took over from me, as the failure happened on a very steep hill. When he figured out it would still go in reverse, he turned it around and drove it on home, backwards. 6 miles. In the days of Chicken Box radio, he sure generated a lot of local chatter over that. "Why, on earth, are you driving that thing down the road in reverse?" "The view is better." Just one of the many odd breakdowns that happened, under my hands, during the summer of my 13th year. The year my C B handle went from "Master Mechanic" to "Junkyard Dog."
Nice to see such a modern forklift. The last one I used was a 3-speed (plus reverse, of course) with a clutch pedal, a gas bottle on the back, and didn't come with a cage over the operator. Great times. :-D PS: And this was in the early '90s, no less. :-P
I'm an industrial maintenance electrician and if I can't fix it by the time I'm done nobody else will be able to fix it either. great video by the way.
I think the voltage drop of 13/22 volts to the contractor is because the motor is wired so that it gets 22V forwards, and 13V in reverse, with a central tap.
You are correct! If something that uses electricity does not work, it has to be a problem with the electrical system. Example: I designed a 4 story office building electrical system. There were two elevators side by side exactly the same. A couple months after the building was completed, we were informed that the electrical system was faulty and one of the elevators would stop working randomly. I went to the building and did some investigation and tests. After finding no issues that would cause the issue, I told the elevator tech to swap the circuit boards of the two controllers. Three weeks later, I thought about it and called the owner to find out what was happening. "Oh, I forgot to call you! The other elevator shut down and the elevator company changed the circuit board! They work fine now." Did he pay for our time doing the investigation? Of course not, it was an electrical problem and under our warranty! Respectfully, Kevin
Good idea too check for voltage drop across your switch gear (contactors, CB's etc) as well, especially with gear as old as dirt like this old jigger. Arc's and sparks were cool!
I think you are probably right about the brake sticking deal, I have a big (16,000 lbs with diesel engine ) fork lift that has been giving me intermittent problems with brake sticking, the way the brake shoes work it could very well be binding in rev. and not in forward. mine is stuck in the back yard right now because of it, (actually I should not have procrastinated about fixing the brake and I would not be stuck). keep up the great work!
I remember when you use to do tool reviews. Have you just changed to entertainment? You have done and said some great things. Can't wait for that to happen again!!!!!
I tried to keep quiet, but....Electrical Engi-nerd here. Your extension cord example is excellent, but the voltage drop seen by the tool is actually twice what you measured. (You'll have nearly equal drop in the neutral conductor too.) Thanks for everything. Keep up the great work and I'll keep on keeping it in my vise.
"Find the root cause and then fix it." God, how simple and self-evident a concept, yet so rarely performed. No one ever wants to wait for/pay for/understand what the real deal is.
Track Craft I have never seen a more relatable youtube comment in my life I'm 24 and work with all guys over 40 so I know "nothing" and when I do tell them how to do something it is oh yeah obviously but I meant blah blah blah
Best vid yet, everyone loves faultfinding, especially, as a spark, you can wash your hands of it when it's mechanical. That being said, I still need closure, there better be a part two.
When I was working on those batterys I had my spanners taped up. Cause a major short and the top of the battery can launch itself through the roof. Normally 48v with 800 amphour.
Been burned before not checking voltage drops but just available voltage, I assumed circuit was ok because without load I had full voltage at an open circuit right before load. Nice to brush up on diagnostic techniques!
That's a great Fluke I have the same one. Great features not used like min/max and auto hold features that would have helped you in your diagnosis. Thanks for video
Man I just like the way you do your RUclips videos just simple and relatable not like everyone putting on they're overly nice behavior.. oh did I talk about the comment section 😂
This kind of makes me wish for a channel where we could share engineering/industry/etc stuff with each-other. Tips and tricks, fails, best practice, worst practice....
AvE, not trying to sound like one of those arm chair quarterback types. Love your vids and learn a lot from you. From the viewpoint of an angry pixie wrangling enginerd, something to consider before tearing stuff apart is to ohm out your motor and also measure the voltage drop across the contactor to ensure your contactor is good. Since your wheels were not spinning your current measurement would be a locked rotor amp measurement so it will not be your true current draw while running. A motor ohm could tell you if some of your motor windings are crapping out on you. Love your demo of using voltage to ensure low resistance. I use to always disconnect the wires and measure resistance until a gray beard showed me that trick. The moral I learned from that is, when a gray beard talks, STFU and listen.
Mechanicals are always on our case to fix a mechanical problem with an electrical fix. You put the wrong size pump in and now want us to fix it by tweaking the motor????
Good luck. I can't even get people to understand why you don't want to buy 10 gauge jumper cables. lol A co-worker of mine put one of those "you need to do this!" members through an ordeal, today. My co-worker got tired of the excuses and drug that poor guy through everything he thought needed to be done, on the factory roof, in the hot sun in 90 degree+ weather. I don't think he will complain that the maintenance department won't help out, any more.
I work on all sorts of material handling equipment and the crusty battery could very well be the problem. Those trucks are insulated return so if the battery ends up leaking and shorting to the battery casing you get weird voltage readings from the battery like you saw. Although I'm sure you've already sorted this you should chuck a 24v lamp between the battery terminals and the chassis to see if there's any current flow.
You have just explained a basic element of electrical fault finding,,,,,,,,,,, don't let idiots make extension leads. I always enjoy your vids, even the ones where you bleach your wife's switches, nothing like having a clean switch when turning things on! I think you just demonstrated to simple folk the art of fault finding, you sparkiescare clever folk.
I think you forgot that if you measure voltage drop on load, you actually are measuring the internal resistance of the battery. You could always calculate the voltage drop through the leads if you know the amps you are pulling through it, just unplug the leads measure the resistance and then use ohms law. Of course that way you won't get the resistance of the breakers, but you have to calculate the internal resistance of the battery first if you want the real wire and contact voltage drop during load. Thanks for the video and hope this helps!
Had to use three stick welders on a roof back in the day. One lead and a couple of double adapters. Kept blowing the fuse so we just kept adding copper wire till we ended up using 8 gauge fencing wire for a fuse. Worked a treat except the lead going across to the roof from the site pole got a huge cow belly in it cos it got so hot. Got the job done though. ;)
Reminds me of my workplace. Angry mechanic arrives with his tools and a bad mood to check a mechanical problem on a shitty machine. Swears and mutters while laying under it with oil dripping down on him. Then I hear "Yes! It's electrical!" and see him walking away, smiling. An electrician arrives, checks out everything and says "nope! It has to be mechanical". Guess who's back with an even badder mood. :P Then repeat this 4 times.
Lol this video is exactly the work i had been doing for the past nearly 30 years, working in heavy plant and material handling, to jump up the job title abit lol basically engineer and elechicken on forklifts. I dont envy your working on that new bit of kit there.
My pad of engineering computation paper can't connect to the AvECAD license server. Am I misreading the license key located on the bottom of this empty can of Old Milwaukee? I tried 10 of them so far and only have 2 left. HELP!
So that's the real reason why you had to get the forklift off the trailer! (And... if you were measuring voltage drop on that extension lead, wouldn't it have been the rh pin with the lh socket?) Cheers, D
you have me liking videos before i even watch them. either I've been shilled or you're the best damn uncle a bunch of garage rejects could ever hope for. Thanks uncle bumble for all your bumbles or at the very least the knowledge what NOT to do lol
I love this, forklift mechanic by trade here and diagnostics are my game. That is one old warhorse there! If you give her a go and can't make her yield, give me a shout!
and once again i find that when i'm wrestling with a weird, obscure project of some kind or another, AvE comes out with a video about it. i found myself driving home with a weird, old, non-running forklift a while back (a 1947 clark trucloader), and now this. you're getting into #relevantxkcd territory here
Had a fun one last month. Rookie drives 360 ton haul truck over electric drills wire "tail". "The hell was that boom, and smoke?" he asks. Drill now down for a "small" short in the system.
The key here is at 06:00 where you correctly state that motor "current is torque" and then you measure forward current as 123 Amps and reverse current as 128 Amps. This is essentially the same, so forward and reverse (locked rotor) torques are identical. So, the motor is trying equally hard in both directions, but the mechanical result is not the same. I would go right away to the drive train; I would jack both drive wheels just above that truck bed, and see what happens for forward and reverse. Maybe also check drag by manually rotating each wheel. BTW, when you can measure currents, don't waste your time measuring voltage drops across connectors, contactors and splices.
U.S .military is about the only one who uses the E.C.locking connector . I know this will sound dumb . But make sure the fwd /rev contacts are clean . Back side pad too. If it doesn't see it closed or open , pixeys won't flow . Worked on old crusty forklifts for a while. Hit me up if ya want so e help !
Being in the forklift game myself I love seeing some of these old dinosaurs that are still going.. That’s a hell of a set of choppers !! Way bigger than fitted to the new overly complicated infernal electronical machines these days.. Those old bastards were so everenginerded and would generally always lift way more than they were rated to do.. I’d love to have a collection of these old bangers put away for posterity.. I must be warped in the head..
Just wondering what you think of them gloves for working with, do they put the hooch in your chooch? Ye might have a video about them and if not it would be a good shout, for I'm always looking for the next best pair and your opinion would be greatly considered. If one of you folks knows about a video on them a wee nudge in the direction of it would be appreciated 👍
Kinda wonder if that battery sitting cockeyed in the back is holding the one steering wheel from reversing easily. It sure looks like it's resting on the wheel.
If I'm not mistaken, you can measure resistance under load. Keeping in mind that the internal resistance of the meter is in the mega ohm range so it will impact high resistance circuits
17:20 Isn't it the other way around or am I thinking it wrong right now? My dad always told me, if the breaker pops, use a longer cable, so you get some voltage drop from the cable and therefore on your load a lower voltage = lower current in the system. And it should be the same with motors. They normally don't go for some power level, but have a resistance and the power is determined by that resistance and the voltage/current provided. In Germany we had an issue there with old carousels. German regulations limit the speed of carousels for children and with old carousels, the motor in combination with the mains voltage limited the speed of the carousels. Germany had 220(+/-22)V mains voltage till 1987 and then switched to 230(+/-24)V. All those old carousels got a higher voltage and therefore more power, which made them spin to fast.
According to Ohm's Law, if V=IxR, then I=R/V. Therefore, as the voltage drops, the current goes up. 200 ohms at 120v would give 1.6 amps, whereas if you had 5 volts of drop on the same circuit with the same resistance you'd get 1.73 amps.
Maybe think of it like an angle grinder that you are putting the full 200 lb gorilla onto. The grinder would increase resistance as the load increases thus drawing greater amperage. Once the amperage hits the breakers threshold the breaker will trip. The longer extension cord has built in greater resistance so will add to the grinders resistance thus increasing current at the breaker with the same load on the grinder.
Jon Glender That is not how maths works ;) You are right about ohm's law ( U=R*I ), but converted to I (dividing both sides by R) you get I=U/R . So taking your example with 200ohms and 120V... you get 0.6A and with 5V you would get 25 mA.
Dall Tex "The grinder would increase resistance as the load increases thus drawing greater amperage" Again I'm not really sure if this is right. To be honest now that I think about it, I'm very sure this isn't right. So yes you are right, that if a full 200lb gorilla goes to work on that grinder, that the grinder draws a greater amperage, but the resistance must be lower in that case. (The electical resistance, the mechanical of course is greater) A motor is more or less a dynamo with a resistor. So each time you induct a magnetic field in it, the motor inducts in reverse. So a perfect motor would create the same voltage as you provide. A perfect motor at 120V would create a voltage of -120V and you would have 0 current flow. Now if you increase the load, you slow down the motor and therefore the dynamo produces a lower reversed voltage, which means the voltage on the motor increases and you get a higher current. So basically under load a motor has a lower resistence and draws more current. (I=U/R)
Jakob Schulze after reading your comment I stand corrected regarding the increased resistance of the motor under load. I really have no explanation why I wrote that. Thanks for clearing it up.
Interesting idea that the breaks are locked. Most but not all forklifts have self energizing drum brakes but they self energize in forward not reverse. So wouldn't driving it forward lock it up tighter and going in reverse break them free if stuck? I would unchock and unchain it to continue troubleshooting
I agree it's probably a brake issue. Especially with that kind of amperage. Brakes always seem to hold better in reverse than they do in forward. #1 rule of electric forklift repair RAISE DRIVE WHEELS so you don't run yourself over when you fix it. That lift probably weighs as much as 2 Chevy Suburbans and I'd like to see you make more videos. -Sit in the seat and see if it rolls(seat brake). Could be that simple( that whole loose nut thing). Check that seat brake is not seized . -If it still doesn't, check master cylinder rod free play. It may be too tight and not allowing fluid to return to reservoir, causing brake application. -check wheel brake adjustment or they might just be seized. It is a 57 year old forklift after all. Thanks for the videos!
I was thinking the same thing when the volume of pixies chooched the same for both directions... Brakes not releasing. Had a similar conundrum happen on a petrol excavator's torque hubs.
AvE, can you take a look at 'huck' bolts and anaylze them? For some reason, the industry I'm in gloats about using them vs. other metal-to-metal attachment methods (rivets, bolts), but I don't understand how huck bolts are so much better.
You DO need a load on the circuit to check the voltage drop, cant do it with an open circuit. Have you plugged in the the OBD2 scanner and checked what the scanner says???
my old man worked for yale lift trucks back when i was a wee little lad. if i remember correctly all the contacts on electric lift trucks are 99.9% fine silver. due to the conductivity and high heat
Just got a fluke tester similar to yours. Was so expensive I haven't taken it out of the bubble pack. For fear of not being able to make my next house payment. Still using the harbor freight cheap unit. Which by the way is perfect . But embarrassing in the tool box.
I had to stop the vid at 1:01 .... Old Wilweekie, My gosh man you live in Cankackstan and have Molsan XXX available.... what were your thinking .... Nice Vid..
Will the fatality be posted in part 2? Or at least on LiveLeak?
My above comment really hits home because I cant even slide an Igloo cooler off a trailer without becoming trapped underneath it.
E30 M3 - oh god I remember that Chineese lady and the forklift. She thought she could counter balance it by jumping on the back as it flipped.
I just watched that vid.. Man that was horrible.
Duncan MacKenzie - I saw it 3 or more years ago, bad news it sticks with you. She seemed so determined.
I just had to go and find that video. Jesus.
I own a Carpet Cleaning Company. One of my machines is having an electrical problem. I've been a long-time viewer of your channel. I started watching your videos with absolutely no mechanical skills.
But I can comfortably say because of your videos, I now have the confidence to take apart my machine and try to fix it myself.
Got it all taken apart, couldn't fix it and now I can't figure out how to put it back together. It's fucked now. But that's not important, what's important here, is you gave a fucking dummy like me the confidence to do it. And for that I salute you my friend! AVE you are a damn LEGEND!
90% of the job is having the balls to take it apart and the memory to put it back together.
AVE gave me the false confidence to take apart my leaf blower to replace the bearing. I broke it taking it apart, glued it back together, the right royally fuckered it on final assembly. then it let the smoke out. The nut was truly behind the steering wheel on that project.
Charles McBride OK , so now you're at the part where you call wife's life insurance policy / new boyfriend fund. Then put your mother on speedial, and engage the safety squints.
As my wife's father is want to say - it ain't working anyway so might as well have a go at it.
John Phillip well I think I like your father in laws thinking. I'd almost say you married up , but then again you're hang in out in ave's alley of the internet 😄
Just wanted to say thanks for the motivation! A few months ago in a vijeo you told us to build stuff whether it been with cardboard or anything. I built a soap dispenser and clap on clap off tv remote with an Arduino and I just got a new really great job with an engineering company! Thanks:D
I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or not
Denzel Morok Many truths are told in jest.
Soap on, soap off
It could still be just a tech job, like a fabricator ...working with engineers, also.
As a fully paid up member of the back of the class, I have to say, I nearly understood this.
I am a visual learner so nuts and bolts and everything in between comes easy to me. Electricity is so much harder because I can't see it. Because you showed us slowly and clearly with the meters, the penny is starting to drop.
My brain still has to visualise pixies flowing down the cables etc rather than just doing maths, but it works for me.
I am DIGGIN' the sound of that warehouse. It's AvE in church: "Reading now from Paul's Letters to the Philippinos, chapter 7, verses 23-25: Speaketh thou not of failure to chooch, lest ye be branded a sissy-man. Rejoice, one and all! Skookum art those that bring tools to bear upon machines in tribulation!"
Amen.
Well we already have Gun Jesus, so I guess now also we have Archbishop AvE!
All praise Gun Jesus.
'Reverend!'
That is a literary piece of art you just wrote.
1961? This lift was ten years old when I started fixing forklifts.
Notice how the seat is up in the air? The seat brake actuates whenever the driver falls off the truck. If you sit on it or tie it down,
the seat brake will release and you can continue the troubleshooting. (either that or you will have fixed the problem... red face) If you ARE holding the seat down and are still bound up, maybe the push rod connected to the seat isn't going down far enough, or the linkage at the bottom is twisted, worn, or damaged; or maybe a spring is broken.. The brake assembly should be on the end of the drive motor. You can feel the linkage by reaching under the truck, but be warned, it can get crusty down there. Also, for trucks that have sat unused for a long time, it's possible that the shoes have stuck to the drum. (if you get good fwd travel though this won't be the case)
Also, it's nice (imperative) to do all this troubleshooting with the drive wheels off the ground. A good way to do that is: tilt all the way back, put wood or steel blocks under the upright rails, then tilt forward. The drive wheels should rise up as the front edge of the rail goes down.
There are almost certainly not brakes on the steer wheels. Also, 100 amps should be plenty enough to move the truck so I wouldn't worry about voltage drop just yet.
My advice: lift the drive wheels, travel in forward for twenty seconds then feel under the truck for a smoking hot seat brake drum. (or disk) (probably drum) Keep your gloves on.
It looks like this may be a resistor truck. Drive speed in them is regulated bu huge ass resistors under the floorboard. Trace the cables from those two contractors on the right. Post the model and serial number next video and I may be able to send you a schematic.
That should be "contactors" not contractors, stupid spell check.
Also after reading comments.... people guessing as to how this thing is wired... Most likely:
Negative goes to A1, through the armature, and emerges at A2. A2 goes to the common NC connection at the directional contactors. The directional contactors change direction of travel by flipping the direction of the current from F1 to F2 or F2 to F1. After the fields the path to positive goes through the speed control, which on this truck looks like resistors.
Someone noticed how that battery was about to drop out the bottom of the truck. Good eye. If it's resting on the steer wheels that could be your problem right there.
Great suggestions! You wouldn't think of those things, unless you had prior knowledge of their operation .
Nice to see video of you working out in the field. Hope we see more of this.
cigr Agreed! I'd like to see more field work too 👍!!
You could swap fwd and reverse leads and actuate reverse. If the forklift goes fwd it confirms a mechanical problem
Exactly! That's some proper skookum logic right there.
That's what I was thinking also
Almost Fixing 101 switch it around.
Your far too smart for the back of the class, pick up your books and go down the front.
Chop Cuc - 👍 .... and the best place to do that would be at the motor.
.
Note: The 7 volt difference in battery volts drop from each side is strange.... I Also thought fork lift trucks used multiple 2v high current capacity units in series/parallel as necessary. )
I bet the thing that goes "beep beep beep" is broken and it can't go reverse without that
Jesus von Nazaret Then quick, pick up a new pet bird at the local pet shop so that it can beep again! Clearly it’s just in a state of depression and mourning.
nah, this thing's pre OH&S nannydom
They didn't have the beep beep beeper back in the dinosaur days...
LOL, LOL, LOL.....
J DeWitt No kidding, back then they had the more primitive “ka-thud...ka-thud!”. It’s not as impressive as back then, but at least the modern “beep beep” doesn’t set off the seismic sensors, though it’s much rougher on the hearing!
Watching these vids has made me more aware of the quality and engineering that goes into any product than before.
So thanks for thwt.
I enjoy the tool tear downs but I would really like to see more videos like this. I used to work on golf cars and I have fond memories of trouble shooting stuff just like this.
gknewby my first job in high school was fixing golf carts with my dad. The electric ones were PFM to my dad and he couldn't figure them out. And i couldn't rebuild gas engines. I did the electrics, it worked out perfectly
I have a lot of Canadian made tools from the late 80's and 90's. The previous owner of our house in the Bahamas left them behind, when we sold, I took them. Good quality tools. Great video!
Hot damn, an AvE video about something I actually sort of know about! Granted, every electric forklift I've driven has been young enough to be this thing's progeny, and the place I drove them for wouldn't even let us maintain the batteries (it was always fun to look at the invoices from the technicians they hired to do that and see just how many extra zeroes were on that guy's paycheck compared to mine), but the familiarity's there regardless
During my last few weeks at that job, I was driving an order picker (basically an electric forklift that you stand on the forks for) and fell off the fuckin' thing trying to manhandle something or another off a high rack. Got to hang there off my safety lanyard for twenty minutes while everybody in the building got their pictures while the bossman tried to figure out where the manual release valve was for lift boom hydraulics because, of course, we weren't supposed to service these things, so nobody had any training on them beyond the controls and how to hook them to a charger. Those five point harnesses crush your nuts something fierce.
Hey, order picker here too! ConAgra. Worst job I ever had.
Doubt it could have killed me, never even really cut off blood to my legs. It crushed my balls because I actually had the thing adjusted right- i.e. it grabbed me and held me by my hips rather than digging into my thighs, so bloodflow wasn't really an issue. Plus, I could (and did, a few times) reach up and just hoist myself up a bit on the lanyard to take some weight off the harness.
They should have had emergency procedures, but my experiences working at big corpo locations like that (not gonna say where exactly, might need a job with them again some time in the future, y'never know) is that fuckin' everything slips through the cracks until something bad happens. They never even did basic stuff like explaining fire escape routes or what severe weather protocols we had were.
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My sides.
7V x 128A = 896 W... 🙄 This old thing comes with seat heating!! 👍 😁
Well but it's not all heat, you are using a motor so you are going to convert most of it to kinetic energy. So probably only 100w heat if the motor is not that efficient
the motor is getting the other 29ish volts.
Valentino Saitz
No. We are talking about the voltage drop, which is 7V and voltage over the motor is 36-7 = 29V.
The current through the whole circuit is 128A. So the motor takes 29V x 128A is 3712W.
And the 'seat heating', takes 7V x 128A = 896W.
The total power is 3712W + 896W = 4608W, which is the same as 36V x 128A.
It's only drawing this much current because the motor is stalled.
35 years of forklift industry. You just gave me a brain aneurism. I remember my dad working on them old basterds
That sho ant SCR and cambus wiring
Love the display on that clamp meter. Looks like it is really easy to read under different lighting conditions.
A new Ave clip and a new TOT clip the same night!!!! Have I died and gone to heaven?!
It's been a damn fine day, indeed.
Na, it'd be heaven if that one video on pornhub that youve been wanting to see but is behind a paywall just got uploaded to xxxhamster for free.
TGIF I got time to watch both tonight! Shop closed a bit early too, I think tonight will be a good night.
Plus I'm finishing that show, One Punch Man. I'm not an anime guy but that show is a good watch.
I had a hard time deciding which one to watch. AvE won. TOT in the morning.
With some abom sauce on top.
Gearbox issue? Bearings go out, suddenly it will roll in one direction and binds in the other?
Had that happen with a John Deere B. Wouldn't go more than 6" forward, in reverse it would go all day. Dad took over from me, as the failure happened on a very steep hill. When he figured out it would still go in reverse, he turned it around and drove it on home, backwards. 6 miles. In the days of Chicken Box radio, he sure generated a lot of local chatter over that.
"Why, on earth, are you driving that thing down the road in reverse?"
"The view is better."
Just one of the many odd breakdowns that happened, under my hands, during the summer of my 13th year. The year my C B handle went from "Master Mechanic" to "Junkyard Dog."
Looking forward to part 2...
I'd have said looking *reverse* to part 2
Nice to see such a modern forklift. The last one I used was a 3-speed (plus reverse, of course) with a clutch pedal, a gas bottle on the back, and didn't come with a cage over the operator. Great times. :-D
PS: And this was in the early '90s, no less. :-P
I'm an industrial maintenance electrician and if I can't fix it by the time I'm done nobody else will be able to fix it either. great video by the way.
I think the voltage drop of 13/22 volts to the contractor is because the motor is wired so that it gets 22V forwards, and 13V in reverse, with a central tap.
The Defpom's Repair Channel I was thinking the same thing... Only problem is, here is the third lead...
You are correct! If something that uses electricity does not work, it has to be a problem with the electrical system.
Example: I designed a 4 story office building electrical system. There were two elevators side by side exactly the same. A couple months after the building was completed, we were informed that the electrical system was faulty and one of the elevators would stop working randomly. I went to the building and did some investigation and tests. After finding no issues that would cause the issue, I told the elevator tech to swap the circuit boards of the two controllers.
Three weeks later, I thought about it and called the owner to find out what was happening.
"Oh, I forgot to call you! The other elevator shut down and the elevator company changed the circuit board! They work fine now."
Did he pay for our time doing the investigation? Of course not, it was an electrical problem and under our warranty!
Respectfully, Kevin
Love this!! How better to understand things in the real world than from the manual (if it even exists) Thank you, AvE!
Good idea too check for voltage drop across your switch gear (contactors, CB's etc) as well, especially with gear as old as dirt like this old jigger. Arc's and sparks were cool!
I think you are probably right about the brake sticking deal, I have a big (16,000 lbs with diesel engine ) fork lift that has been giving me intermittent problems with brake sticking, the way the brake shoes work it could very well be binding in rev. and not in forward. mine is stuck in the back yard right now because of it, (actually I should not have procrastinated about fixing the brake and I would not be stuck). keep up the great work!
I remember when you use to do tool reviews. Have you just changed to entertainment? You have done and said some great things. Can't wait for that to happen again!!!!!
Always good for a chuckle, and usually learn you a thing or two
I tried to keep quiet, but....Electrical Engi-nerd here. Your extension cord example is excellent, but the voltage drop seen by the tool is actually twice what you measured. (You'll have nearly equal drop in the neutral conductor too.) Thanks for everything. Keep up the great work and I'll keep on keeping it in my vise.
The snap-on print looks like the 70s/80s era! Mad skookum my dude!!!
I have the trial version of AvECAD, but it never tells me where I should register it.
Pekka Saarinen I tried the subscribe button, but nothing happened.
"Find the root cause and then fix it."
God, how simple and self-evident a concept, yet so rarely performed. No one ever wants to wait for/pay for/understand what the real deal is.
Track Craft I have never seen a more relatable youtube comment in my life I'm 24 and work with all guys over 40 so I know "nothing" and when I do tell them how to do something it is oh yeah obviously but I meant blah blah blah
It was interesting seeing you work on the job. Thanks for sharing.
Best vid yet, everyone loves faultfinding, especially, as a spark, you can wash your hands of it when it's mechanical. That being said, I still need closure, there better be a part two.
When I was working on those batterys I had my spanners taped up. Cause a major short and the top of the battery can launch itself through the roof. Normally 48v with 800 amphour.
going through electrical in college right now in kelowna. we just did voltage drops. love the vids !
Been burned before not checking voltage drops but just available voltage, I assumed circuit was ok because without load I had full voltage at an open circuit right before load. Nice to brush up on diagnostic techniques!
That's a great Fluke I have the same one. Great features not used like min/max and auto hold features that would have helped you in your diagnosis. Thanks for video
"The nut that holds the wheel" is the way I always heared it.
Did you try hitting it with a hammer?
Love these real world troubleshoot vids...
Man I just like the way you do your RUclips videos just simple and relatable not like everyone putting on they're overly nice behavior.. oh did I talk about the comment section 😂
This kind of makes me wish for a channel where we could share engineering/industry/etc stuff with each-other. Tips and tricks, fails, best practice, worst practice....
AvE, not trying to sound like one of those arm chair quarterback types. Love your vids and learn a lot from you. From the viewpoint of an angry pixie wrangling enginerd, something to consider before tearing stuff apart is to ohm out your motor and also measure the voltage drop across the contactor to ensure your contactor is good. Since your wheels were not spinning your current measurement would be a locked rotor amp measurement so it will not be your true current draw while running. A motor ohm could tell you if some of your motor windings are crapping out on you. Love your demo of using voltage to ensure low resistance. I use to always disconnect the wires and measure resistance until a gray beard showed me that trick. The moral I learned from that is, when a gray beard talks, STFU and listen.
2 minutes in and I can tell this video is gold
Mechanicals are always on our case to fix a mechanical problem with an electrical fix. You put the wrong size pump in and now want us to fix it by tweaking the motor????
What's the problem?! it's just a setting on the drive. Sheesh.
You’ve never seen a municipality use a vfd to get a specific flow rating out of a pump but throw balancing out the window to achieve it? Lol
Good luck. I can't even get people to understand why you don't want to buy 10 gauge jumper cables. lol
A co-worker of mine put one of those "you need to do this!" members through an ordeal, today. My co-worker got tired of the excuses and drug that poor guy through everything he thought needed to be done, on the factory roof, in the hot sun in 90 degree+ weather. I don't think he will complain that the maintenance department won't help out, any more.
TheTomBevis everyone blames maintenance for problems... I like to say need a mechanic throw a brick in the woods you'll probably hit one...
@Kbat so much powaaaaa man!
Loved this trouble shooting vid. My favourite yet. Thank you
I work on all sorts of material handling equipment and the crusty battery could very well be the problem. Those trucks are insulated return so if the battery ends up leaking and shorting to the battery casing you get weird voltage readings from the battery like you saw. Although I'm sure you've already sorted this you should chuck a 24v lamp between the battery terminals and the chassis to see if there's any current flow.
Almost a million subs, congrats Mr. AvE.
Thanks for the field trip, time to get back to class.
You have just explained a basic element of electrical fault finding,,,,,,,,,,, don't let idiots make extension leads.
I always enjoy your vids, even the ones where you bleach your wife's switches, nothing like having a clean switch when turning things on!
I think you just demonstrated to simple folk the art of fault finding, you sparkiescare clever folk.
I think you forgot that if you measure voltage drop on load, you actually are measuring the internal resistance of the battery. You could always calculate the voltage drop through the leads if you know the amps you are pulling through it, just unplug the leads measure the resistance and then use ohms law. Of course that way you won't get the resistance of the breakers, but you have to calculate the internal resistance of the battery first if you want the real wire and contact voltage drop during load. Thanks for the video and hope this helps!
Had to use three stick welders on a roof back in the day. One lead and a couple of double adapters. Kept blowing the fuse so we just kept adding copper wire till we ended up using 8 gauge fencing wire for a fuse. Worked a treat except the lead going across to the roof from the site pole got a huge cow belly in it cos it got so hot. Got the job done though. ;)
Reminds me of my workplace. Angry mechanic arrives with his tools and a bad mood to check a mechanical problem on a shitty machine. Swears and mutters while laying under it with oil dripping down on him. Then I hear "Yes! It's electrical!" and see him walking away, smiling. An electrician arrives, checks out everything and says "nope! It has to be mechanical". Guess who's back with an even badder mood. :P
Then repeat this 4 times.
So what WAS the problem in the end??
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 Mechanical. Ruined bearing causing motor and vfd to overheat.
Uncle Bumble in the wild. I like it!
Lol this video is exactly the work i had been doing for the past nearly 30 years, working in heavy plant and material handling, to jump up the job title abit lol basically engineer and elechicken on forklifts. I dont envy your working on that new bit of kit there.
Another great video. Can't wait to see part two
My pad of engineering computation paper can't connect to the AvECAD license server. Am I misreading the license key located on the bottom of this empty can of Old Milwaukee? I tried 10 of them so far and only have 2 left. HELP!
Also what reverb plugin did you use on the main footage? I want to try it out.
Alec J I think it's an analog unit
I think it’s the “Canadian Warehouse Forklift and Plate Reverb Filter, Full Size”
Funny you should say that because the reverb actually sounds like it could be modelled and put to use.
I think it was bathroom colostomy bag, setting #4.
We could call it the Scookum Gospel Plate Reverb.
Très important la mise en place!
What what? Is this an actual work assignment?
No, this is a work for chuckles and beers assignment. But mostly, I want to borrow the trailer.
A reply from AvE? I must be dreaming (entirely possible after a bottle of Jameson and a bottle of Lithuanian potato vodka).
Joni and tissues
So that's the real reason why you had to get the forklift off the trailer! (And... if you were measuring voltage drop on that extension lead, wouldn't it have been the rh pin with the lh socket?) Cheers, D
Nice following you around at work! kinda got scared the thing would suddenly engage and crush ya!
Did you check the parking brake on the end of the drive motor actuated by the operators seat?
Love these troubleshooting video's, Nice one duder.
the times i,ve been told its electrical problem till you,ve proved to the mechanic what the problem is
you have me liking videos before i even watch them. either I've been shilled or you're the best damn uncle a bunch of garage rejects could ever hope for. Thanks uncle bumble for all your bumbles or at the very least the knowledge what NOT to do lol
would that be tom sachs that built that "gratte la galle" extended extension ( aka the" puddle electrifrier ) ?
I love this, forklift mechanic by trade here and diagnostics are my game. That is one old warhorse there! If you give her a go and can't make her yield, give me a shout!
and once again i find that when i'm wrestling with a weird, obscure project of some kind or another, AvE comes out with a video about it. i found myself driving home with a weird, old, non-running forklift a while back (a 1947 clark trucloader), and now this. you're getting into #relevantxkcd territory here
Whatever happened to the addendum to the dedendum? I love comparing notes with other field service types.
Old Milwaukee?!? That’s a Sunday Funday on the Coquitlam river special!! Yumm
AvE on the job Learning us Pleps stuff ........
might be his best vidjeo to date everrrrr
Thanks for inspection
Had a fun one last month. Rookie drives 360 ton haul truck over electric drills wire "tail". "The hell was that boom, and smoke?" he asks. Drill now down for a "small" short in the system.
The key here is at 06:00 where you correctly state that motor "current is torque" and then you measure forward current as 123 Amps and reverse current as 128 Amps. This is essentially the same, so forward and reverse (locked rotor) torques are identical. So, the motor is trying equally hard in both directions, but the mechanical result is not the same. I would go right away to the drive train; I would jack both drive wheels just above that truck bed, and see what happens for forward and reverse. Maybe also check drag by manually rotating each wheel.
BTW, when you can measure currents, don't waste your time measuring voltage drops across connectors, contactors and splices.
U.S .military is about the only one who uses the E.C.locking connector . I know this will sound dumb . But make sure the fwd /rev contacts are clean . Back side pad too.
If it doesn't see it closed or open , pixeys won't flow .
Worked on old crusty forklifts for a while. Hit me up if ya want so e help !
Wish there were more thumbs up to give. fantastic
Like always enjoy your videos.
Hi AvE, how about a vid on high pressure mechanical seals?
Being in the forklift game myself I love seeing some of these old dinosaurs that are still going.. That’s a hell of a set of choppers !! Way bigger than fitted to the new overly complicated infernal electronical machines these days..
Those old bastards were so everenginerded and would generally always lift way more than they were rated to do..
I’d love to have a collection of these old bangers put away for posterity.. I must be warped in the head..
Just wondering what you think of them gloves for working with, do they put the hooch in your chooch? Ye might have a video about them and if not it would be a good shout, for I'm always looking for the next best pair and your opinion would be greatly considered. If one of you folks knows about a video on them a wee nudge in the direction of it would be appreciated 👍
Kinda wonder if that battery sitting cockeyed in the back is holding the one steering wheel from reversing easily. It sure looks like it's resting on the wheel.
If I'm not mistaken, you can measure resistance under load. Keeping in mind that the internal resistance of the meter is in the mega ohm range so it will impact high resistance circuits
Thanks so much for making that make sense and simple to understand. " Pixies have to dance in circles" will ever after be engraved in my grey matter!
17:20
Isn't it the other way around or am I thinking it wrong right now?
My dad always told me, if the breaker pops, use a longer cable, so you get some voltage drop from the cable and therefore on your load a lower voltage = lower current in the system.
And it should be the same with motors. They normally don't go for some power level, but have a resistance and the power is determined by that resistance and the voltage/current provided.
In Germany we had an issue there with old carousels. German regulations limit the speed of carousels for children and with old carousels, the motor in combination with the mains voltage limited the speed of the carousels.
Germany had 220(+/-22)V mains voltage till 1987 and then switched to 230(+/-24)V. All those old carousels got a higher voltage and therefore more power, which made them spin to fast.
According to Ohm's Law, if V=IxR, then I=R/V. Therefore, as the voltage drops, the current goes up. 200 ohms at 120v would give 1.6 amps, whereas if you had 5 volts of drop on the same circuit with the same resistance you'd get 1.73 amps.
Maybe think of it like an angle grinder that you are putting the full 200 lb gorilla onto. The grinder would increase resistance as the load increases thus drawing greater amperage. Once the amperage hits the breakers threshold the breaker will trip. The longer extension cord has built in greater resistance so will add to the grinders resistance thus increasing current at the breaker with the same load on the grinder.
Jon Glender
That is not how maths works ;)
You are right about ohm's law ( U=R*I ), but converted to I (dividing both sides by R) you get I=U/R .
So taking your example with 200ohms and 120V... you get 0.6A and with 5V you would get 25 mA.
Dall Tex
"The grinder would increase resistance as the load increases thus drawing greater amperage"
Again I'm not really sure if this is right. To be honest now that I think about it, I'm very sure this isn't right.
So yes you are right, that if a full 200lb gorilla goes to work on that grinder, that the grinder draws a greater amperage, but the resistance must be lower in that case. (The electical resistance, the mechanical of course is greater)
A motor is more or less a dynamo with a resistor. So each time you induct a magnetic field in it, the motor inducts in reverse. So a perfect motor would create the same voltage as you provide.
A perfect motor at 120V would create a voltage of -120V and you would have 0 current flow. Now if you increase the load, you slow down the motor and therefore the dynamo produces a lower reversed voltage, which means the voltage on the motor increases and you get a higher current.
So basically under load a motor has a lower resistence and draws more current. (I=U/R)
Jakob Schulze after reading your comment I stand corrected regarding the increased resistance of the motor under load. I really have no explanation why I wrote that. Thanks for clearing it up.
Loving the on the job vid.
Interesting idea that the breaks are locked. Most but not all forklifts have self energizing drum brakes but they self energize in forward not reverse. So wouldn't driving it forward lock it up tighter and going in reverse break them free if stuck? I would unchock and unchain it to continue troubleshooting
I agree it's probably a brake issue. Especially with that kind of amperage. Brakes always seem to hold better in reverse than they do in forward. #1 rule of electric forklift repair RAISE DRIVE WHEELS so you don't run yourself over when you fix it. That lift probably weighs as much as 2 Chevy Suburbans and I'd like to see you make more videos.
-Sit in the seat and see if it rolls(seat brake). Could be that simple( that whole loose nut thing). Check that seat brake is not seized .
-If it still doesn't, check master cylinder rod free play. It may be too tight and not allowing fluid to return to reservoir, causing brake application.
-check wheel brake adjustment or they might just be seized. It is a 57 year old forklift after all.
Thanks for the videos!
In the Vancouver of BC today. Lovely day out.
I was thinking the same thing when the volume of pixies chooched the same for both directions... Brakes not releasing. Had a similar conundrum happen on a petrol excavator's torque hubs.
god love you ave. thanks for all the kind tutelage
AvE, can you take a look at 'huck' bolts and anaylze them? For some reason, the industry I'm in gloats about using them vs. other metal-to-metal attachment methods (rivets, bolts), but I don't understand how huck bolts are so much better.
You DO need a load on the circuit to check the voltage drop, cant do it with an open circuit. Have you plugged in the the OBD2 scanner and checked what the scanner says???
my old man worked for yale lift trucks back when i was a wee little lad. if i remember correctly all the contacts on electric lift trucks are 99.9% fine silver. due to the conductivity and high heat
Just got a fluke tester similar to yours. Was so expensive I haven't taken it out of the bubble pack. For fear of not being able to make my next house payment. Still using the harbor freight cheap unit. Which by the way is perfect . But embarrassing in the tool box.
I had to stop the vid at 1:01 .... Old Wilweekie, My gosh man you live in Cankackstan and have Molsan XXX available.... what were your thinking .... Nice Vid..
Your videos always get my wife going, it must be the hands
@ 1:05 Holy-oh-fuck! Youse can get Old Milwaukee in Canuckistan? Those haven't been seen in Mass-of-two-shits for decades
.... Memories ,,,
The motor has a field winding and a stator winding. One contact on right set and one on left set are suppose to come on at the same time.