"If strength is the goal: maximize force production, and focus on moving a given load as quickly as you can". Don't train to failure for improving strength. Super helpful information, thank you.
It’s not so much that you get stronger from fast tempo it’s just that it’s easier. Jumping from a harder vs easier bench execution I experienced a 20% increase instantly
@@ben-dn4sv Usually if I bench now I’m gonna do it without leg drive aka larsen press. I’ve always used a slow tempo on the eccentric and even concentric unknowingly with a 1 second pause. Doing it this way just felt more natural, now I do 3 second pauses. I was curious to start getting an idea of what the difference would be so I did no pausing, went back to leg drive, made the eccentric as fast as I could, and exploded on concentric. The same weight I would get with a 1 RM on the harder variation I could get for 7 reps. If I wanted I could get it even higher bc I never learned how to use leg drive properly I just put my legs down and go and I don’t arch. Then there’s close vs medium vs wide grip
don't train to failure, 4 RIR or even less is good for strength (yes, lower than hypertrophy). maximize Force production and focus on moving a given load as quickly as you can
summary: this study suggests that for strength it is best to move the weight quickly or explosively for multiple sets, without getting close to failure (which would slow you down). meanwhile for hypertrophy it is best to train close to failure, but you can still build muscle even if you don't train to failure.
Strength is fundamentally just neurological adaptation, difference in methods is just how long it’ll take to peak. You probably could work up to just 1 rep at 90% intensity a week (or every other week) and long term have your peak strength. Bc you’ll we already have a lot of strength adaptations just from using 70% intensity. If you’re putting up 160 for 12 on the OHP you likely can do 200 for a max I’d still do some variations of the lift though again might make the adaptations slower but it’s the healthier way that allows you to be peaked and do high volume year round
I forgot to add merely using a faster tempo and what not isn’t actually making you stronger it’s just the easier execution of the lift. Actually getting stronger is when your numbers go up either from higher intensity adaptations or however you usually perform the exercise increased
Hot damn. I’ve been following the hypertrophy method instead of the strength route, when in reality I’ve just wanted to get stronger. This completely flips my lifting routine on its head 😅
Another great explanation! I tend to appreciate mathematical descriptions and this video really resonated with me. I've had some recent gains and this made perfect sense with that. Thanks so much!
The more I see these studies the more I think that exercise science is missing the big picture and the answer lies in phases / waves. i.e. run a strength cycle with lots of RPE 7s and lower, then a hypertrophy cycle with lots of machines and RPE 9+. Both fatigue in different ways, so they balance out and a bigger muscle is potentially a stronger muscle. Also this was kinda known 30 years ago with speed work that suddenly became obsolete for whatever reason
I haven't read the study (yet), but having done biomechamocs in my grad research and lifting for decades, this makes sense. If your goal is biggest muscles (hypertrophy), tain to failure. If your goal is strength endurance, focus on slow twitch muscle growth and isometric with slow, heavy lifts and slow negatives. If your goal is maximum short-term force production, focus on fast twitch muscle growth through rapid lifts. I used to alternate 2 days light weight, high number of fast reps, with 2 days of heavy weight, slower lift, lower reps. Perhaps I should have aimed for heavy fast reps instead. Now that I'm older I probably won't add it. Heavy, fast reps are likely more prone to injury as you age. I'm curious about the science on that too.
68 years been training over 50 years still pressing 65 lb dumbells overhead for a dozen reps, always work on speed by concentric fast and 4 second eccentric My last 2 to 3 are always slower grinders maybe a rep or two from failure proper form Been training at home with dumbells for last 15 years some sets between 20-30 reps gives my heart a good throttling each time 🎉😅
One thing which may be worth mentioning (at least in my experience); limiting those “grindy” reps and focusing on improving bar speed can help avoid poor/dangerous form. Building strength with great reps is underrated. I would assume this leads to better program adherence as well since it likely reduces injuries. Also, training at lower RPEs (6-8 vs 9-10) is inherently a bit easier to successfully execute (again, in my experience. Correct me if I’m wrong). TRUE failure on heavy lifts may be too extreme to demand from your body and mind at high frequency given all the factors which affect your performance. In other words, your entire body and mind need to be on their A++ game. Slept 4 hours?? Good luck on your lifts. Btw, I’m not necessarily speaking for pro lifters. I’m just an experienced, avid lifter.
Training for hypertrophy is entirely different, though. This meta-analysis [1] concluded, "Looking only at studies that included resistance-trained individuals, the data shows that training to failure has a significantly greater impact on hypertrophy." One of many studies reaching the same conclusion. Just saying as I know some people don't differentiate strength training and hypertrophy training. Proximity to failure is key for size gains. [1] Effects of resistance training performed to repetition failure or non-failure on muscular strength and hypertrophy : a systematic review and meta-analysis. J Sport Health Sci, 2021. Grgic J, Schoenfeld BJ, Orazem J and Sabol F.
I had the best gains when i exploded rep 1 -2 second positive, hold and squeeze for 1-2 seconds, and then have a slow and contrled negative 2-4 seconds.
Personally man, I thoroughly enjoy both philosophies. So incline dumbbell press. I enjoy 2 warm up sets, 3 working sets, and then potentially 1 or 2 15-20 rep sets slow and controlled. Sometimes optimal conditions are trumped by enjoyment which personally, I think no one talks about 🤣
Fantastic point at the end. If you’re not getting paid to lift, then lifting is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be fun. For the average lifter, there is a balance to strike between most effective and most enjoyable.
Seems like you can do both. Do your strength far from failure then hit a couple of sets or even one set to failure, maybe at a lighter and less fatiguing load.
This needs a follow-up. What is the differences between the training close and far from failure? What can an athlete expect from the two, and what should one aim for. If there are any differences at all..
As a fellow powerlifter I do think there is value in going to rpe 9 / 10 to learn how to grind out reps. When you Max out it will be a grinder. It is a skill to grind it out. 90% and 100% are way different. Just my opinion.
Hey Layne, do you adjust rest intervals based off rep schemes. Say 75% 2x8 rest 4 mins vs 4x4 rest 2 minutes? Or do you keep longer rest intervals despite decreased intensity set to set?
I was doing 80lb single leg, legs curls on the 12th rep, I did a minor hamstring strain. A week later I went to do 20lb for some blood flow, and there was no way I was lifting the weight for more than an inch, could do 10lb. If I bench and my elbow clicks on the first rep, making my elbow unstable, there is no way I am getting a second rep, even though if my elbow doesn't click, I could do 20 reps. I was trying to hang from the chinup bar with one hand, no way I could do that, then one day I could hang for 20 seconds either arm. Was like some pathways in the brain shut down and others opened. Strength training seems like rewiring the brain. At some point you don't want to further change your brain, I would think. I do believe what you are explaining is simply just rewiring the brain, which is fine, until something goes wrong, the brain should be rewired as you get conditioned, not forced.
Your entire nervous system adapts to whatever stresses you put on your body. Given adequate recovery, you become more efficient at those movements. Joint clicking and muscle strains are avoidable/fixable and not related to brain pathways unless you have some serious nerve impingement which i doubt. Also, your hamstring strain may have been worse than you think and it takes much longer than a week to heal so it was simply an injury and your body protected you from making it far worse by sending pain signals and weakness because of it. There is absolutely no mental limit to what you can physically achieve in the gym. You don't just learn a deadlift and forget a pullup. Consistency and documenting your workouts will highlight your achievements. Allow proper recovery and warm up well. Best warm up is an easier version of the same movement - primes the nervous system and warms up the exact muscles being used
@@NorThenX047 with the elbow the nerve can rub on the bone, as well as ligaments. I have a referral to get an X-ray to see what's going on. Then I guess a physio.
I fully agree with this study. My personal experience with weighted pullups reflects the same outcome. I did 6 sets of 4-5 reps with 45lbs and over the course of 4 months I am now able to do the same with 55lbs.
I used to do high reps gradually adding weight every set , was gaining some mass but not much strength, so I switched to old school five by fives and that's when I started gaining real strength
I have done pretty well in powerlifting for an unathletic natural, 1275 total. I need to use weights that are 5-15% less than what I can do for a given number of reps. So for example, if I can bench 325 for 3, I can go as low as 85% of the (275) or as high as about 305-310 (95% of that) for triples, with the best results being right in the middle, about 90% of my 3 rep max. When the weights get up to that 95% level it is definitely time to go back and work my way up again. I usually consider 85% of my rep max as lowish developmental load, 90% as medium, and 95% as high, with at least half of my work being at the medium level, which is basically triples at a 7-8 rep max, 5s at around a 10 RM, and 2s at around a 5 rm. Heavier doesn't work for long, maybe 2-3 workouts. Now "max Effort" like Westside training is different. If you change your exercise so that you are not very proficient in the variation, I think you can go to near a rep max since you haven't learned to train super hard on that variation. So you may have 1 or 2 workouts with a given variation, the first one probably being around the medium level and the second one being heavy, before you are good enough at that version to go to the max. So if you rotate and use variations that you aren't proficient in, I think it is actually a method that prevents excessive overload, while still giving you then "intent" to push as hard as you can.
So you’re discussing this is the context of power lifting. But what about weight training for general health/fitness and/or age management/mitigation of sarcopenia?
I think it's more like instead of going fast at the begening and getting slower by the end of a set, it would be easy to say that the lifting form can be more accurate doing lower reps by set so the muscle stays more "fresh" each set so your body can more easely lift the weight every time. Also, I find easier for the body to recover that way as going near or to failure often gets the muscle to hurt for a day or 2 when hit really hard, so that way you can train more often, feel less fatigue and be fresher every time! (Still need at least 2 days off per week in my case but it helps me train the same muscle group everyday and multiple time a day)
For strength gains is debatable and some can say its counterproductive. But when it comes to something that is common where you have to push past your limits. Training to failure to build a mindset for that activity is important. Fighting and military. Sometimes even certain sports. Cause there is a lot of people with a quitting mindset and frankly just okay with the bare minimum. For bodybuilding okay. For strength. Probably can just do progressive overload. But something where I need to carry some wounded guy out to safety. Or Im already beat the hell up and got 2 more rounds with another fighter. Marathon running has no room for quitting when you have to even finish. Especially Ultras. Your gonna rip or tear a quad...its gonna happen. Barely anyone after such a long grueling run is gonna finish with just a hot spot on the foot. Your gonna get thrashed and you need the mental and physical training to push past the threshold where bare minimum training will not do.
There is no difference other than if you don’t care about max strength you don’t have to lift. To get as strong as possible you have to get as big as possible
Even without this info, one reason for not going too close to failure is injury risk. It's terribly hard to maintain proper technique through a slow grinder rep. Save the grinders for competition day and stay safe.
I ultimately care more about strength than aesthetics, _and_ I'm close to burned out on high-rep sets, so this is good info. However I'm nervous to do 90% 1RM with no spotter . . .
On the real, just use modern periodization: muscle hypertrophy phase (at least several mesocycles, block or blocks) and then a strength/power phase (a few mesocycles, a block), and then a taper/peaking phase (a mesocycle, or maybe a couple/few microcycles) and then express your strength/power in a testing microcycle. Rinse and repeat.
How you train for adding muscle mass will be different from how you train to use given muscle mass to move more load or that load more rapidly. Then, you have to wash out fatigue and prep your body neurologically and psychologically to express your max strength/power at some point.
Going from a bodybuilding show to a powerlifting meet are incredibly different training styles. For example benching 5 sets of 8 is typical bodybuilding in a pyramid style. Powerlifting could look more like 5 sets of 3, with none of those slow grinder reps. My hypertrophy result is similar, but my power seems to go way up, training with speed, low reps and weekly increases in weight.
OK - So for Strength, 6x3@RPE6 is better than 3x6@RPE9. But what if i don't have time for 6 or more sets? A more relevant Question is: Are 3 sets of 3 fast reps better than 3 sets of 3 heavier/slower reps? So 3x3@RPE6 vs 3x3@RPE9.
There is so much nuance when it comes to strength and hypertrophy. Factors such as age, experience, stress, work, food, rest, etc… More importantly, each person is unique. As a nationally ranked powerlifter, I know that going too heavy, too often causes me to break down. I actually see the volume as a key driver. If I do one really hard set to failure, say a set of 8 to failure. That will influence my future sets. I find it’s much better to keep my RIR to 3-4 reps on most sets, until I have a max test day. This allows lots of practice, and keeps we fresh and healthy.
it depends of how often person is training. If you train muscle group once a week you only get results with maximum reps of weight that you can control. Big weights only offer bigger possibility for injury
Layne - have you written or do you recommend any papers/articles that differentiate between the training aspect of the movement vs. the strength? For example, as I understand it, if I practice a type of squat using a particular Technique X, I not only grow my muscles and strength, but also my coordination and efficiency at technique X- hence I will be more competitive (higher 1-rep-max) with Technique X. However, if I train with a different type of squat Technique Y, I will less competitive (lower 1-rep-max) in in Technique X, but higher 1-re-max in Technique Y. It might be said that the choice to measure strength in terms of 1-rep-max begs the question of "strength." Pehaps a better measurement for what we call "strength" is how many reps of particular quantity (or say, 85% 1-rep-max for an individual) a person can complete before failure? It seems the appropriate additional case for this study is to measure the number of reps people can do at 85% (or whatever) to failure based on whether they trained for force or trained to failure. If they did this test - do you project that the group that trained to failure would be able to do more reps of a particular weight to failure than the group that trained for force/1-rep-max?
I disagree. The amount of muscle mass you have is also a big contributing factor of your strength. So if training close to failure grows more muscle, you're also going to gain more strength in the long term. The reason why the group training close to failure had less strength is probably because they were more fatigued. If they were to rest for a week and then test their 1rm, they would have had more strength. Training close to failure only reduces strength in the short term.
What exactly happens to the body during these quick heavy reps? Is there more activation of your neuromuscular system - which leads to what exactly? A better connection with your muscles neurologically? ToT is not important for strength ie. Muscle tearing down to build more later which I guess is pointless if you cannot forcefully contract the muscles to accomplish whatever you are setting out to do.? Thanks for the great info. Sorry if my question is worded poorly or if you’ve covered it in the past.
sounds like he's just saying the quick heavy reps don't have the downsides(fatigue) of the slower reps, not necessarily that the body is doing anything else different.
I don't think it's the connection to the muscle but rewiring the brain. To shut off pathways that say no and open new ones that say yes. I am sure if you did a brain scan of someone prior to powerlifting and then did one years later, much different areas of the brain would light up due to activity. Would have to be a good thing to some point, but would then become a negative
I really like this video, It's good to see more focus on strength rather than hypertrophy. This also begs the question if Prilepin's table would work for powerlifting or if there is a version adapted to powerlifting?
Thank you for your scientific videos and your work. They are fantastic. I have a doubt though. You said that in order to improve strenght someone should use several sets with 4 reps approximately, movimd the load as quick as possible, considering that F: m (kg) x a (m/s2) or 1 g. But, doing as you said, we move the load considering the volocity (m/s), for example using a line encoder , that u use if i am not wrong, therefore we obtain the expression of Power, and therefore doing so, we train the explosive strenght but not the max one. Thus" maximasize explosive force production". Please, let me know what you think, and i am sorry for my english 😊, because is not perfect and i hope i explained myself.
Those grindy sets help me move loads faster in the long run. As long as I am mindful about when I’m going after heavy sets (for example, peaking only a couple times per month and then deloading), in my experience it’s been easier to develop speed, power, and maintain form by embracing a few grindy reps now and then. Seems like a lot more needs to be studied to draw these conclusions.
Honestly the study is riddled with so many limitations and has not been peer reviewed or published that I don't think one should make recommendations based on this or based on physics formulas.
I find this really confusing. Take my OHP as an example. I go all out with 0 RIR and 8 reps as my hypertrophy work. Then my strength work would be the same but only 4 reps. What??!?!
Hey man, thanks for breaking down and sharing this information. Question - I understand the force and acceleration thing, makes sense. However, should you also train slow reps? Thinking being fast reps may allow momentum to carry you through a sticking point that may be a failure point at heavier weight where the rep is slower.
You also need to call an audible once in a while. Some days you just don't feel strong. Tired. getting over being sick, ect... So I at least, need to re-judge the percentage of my 1RM I'm going to do.
I believe you said that speed is important for strength, but isn't that what power is and how it differs from strength? I got confused. I thought in strength you move the bar slowly and time doesn't matter, whereas in power it does matter, and you try to move the weight as quickly as possible to improve explosiveness.
Here's what I don't understand about this: If you're using a weight you can do 10 reps with (granted two are grinders) that's essentially a bodybuilders range but then you're saying to cut the reps by 50 or 60% and just do the explosive rep portion. So when do you get under heavy load if your heavy load days are using 80% or your 1 rm? The explosive rep argument sounds similar to what Westside Barbell did for decades on its dynamic training days, although their weight would be much lighter closer to 50% or 1 rm. But they would also have a max effort day that they would go very heavy for a couple reps. (I mean sure you already know this.) But my question is, when do you as a power lifter get accimilated to heavy loads. Because using a weight you can get 10 reps with and stopping at 4 isn't going to do it.
In my 25 years of strength training the biggest lesson has been ”training to failure leads to injury” and you learn to use bad technique. So if you wan’t to maximize muscle building, doing a set of bench stopping a rep before failure and picking up a set of dumbbells going to failure with flyes would make you much less prone to injury than benching to failure and beyond.
@@tonytran7382yes and no, it depends on the exercise selection. HIT is dangerous in squats, deadlift and benchpress for example, but latpulldowns, legpresses and cableflyes could work very well. Just my experience from an injury perspective. I must add that HIT is aimed at bodybuilding and not strength development.
My take away- Just exercise. I do what feels good. I don't think about it too much. Unless you are aiming to compete, just do something. I started by doing 3000 push ups in a month and have progressed to a mix of other bodyweight exercises. I feel great and never "fail" because I only ask myself to do "something" every week. Sometimes it's only a couple hundred push ups and a few dozen pull ups, other weeks it's 3-4 days of whole body workouts.
I don't really agree with this. If I "just exercise", I get bored and annoyed that I have no direct measurement of progress. I like to pick goals and go after them, that way I know if I'm actually making progress or not. That's what keeps me motivated. I agree you shouldn't overthink it, but if you don't think about it at all, it'll feel like you're not accomplishing very much and you may just become completely disinterested.
You can’t just do what “feels good” when it comes to making measurable long term progress. It terms of just getting started, then absolutely just get movement and do something, but feelings are fleeting. You are not going to maintain your motivation just off your feelings. You need some structure and some progression eventually to maintain motivation.
And you probably have and are going to have a mediocre physique/strength for the the rest of your training career, people who aren’t genetic freaks are going to need consistent and logical structure in their training for success
@@dogbreedsareamyth9409might not unlock much strength, but this, in time, with good nutrition, will lead to looking better, being healthier than 99.9% of the population
Couldn't another reason for having more RIR be that your technique will still be closer to the ideal one you want with your 1 RM? I mean for the last couple of reps you aren't only losing speed but most often the form takes a somewhat dive too. At least compared to the "ideal form" (it may not be bad in a dangerous way). And not only that, some muscles may fatigue quicker than others when doing, for example a set of 8 with 0 RIR compared to a set of 4 with 4 RIR. Different types of coordinated muscle activations in a state with also more metabolic fatigue. Not something that is happening with a 1 rep max. In addition to that then also getting more overall systemic fatigued and losing the power effect talked about here. All in all a win win anyway for not going to failure if it comes to getting good at lifting a max weight in a very technique driven compound movement as close to the real thing without beating body to smitherens!
Noob here. What happens to the body when it gets stronger without much hypertrophy? Meaning, what happens strutcturaly to the muscle, joints, etc? Is strength a combination of factors or is it something isolated?
Maybe I will try this now, I have always trained very close to failure since I started powerlifting, because I always thought that it's the only way that actually works for me. Lifting submaximal just always made me weaker. However I have never thought about it in the sense of the movement speed. I have been off the gym for some weeks so I may try it now while I am restoring my strength.
Yes, I try to do my lifts fast, longer rest and go again. The question is, how heavy do you know how to lift? I guess you go to failure occasionally to test it. I am so old and weak frankly I am happy if I can do five reps at puny weights.
So... if training for strength is optimal at 4RfF, and Hypertrophy at or very near failure, what happens when we train 2RfF? is that the sweetspot for general "strength" training to improve fitness, physique, and performance?
"If strength is the goal: maximize force production, and focus on moving a given load as quickly as you can". Don't train to failure for improving strength. Super helpful information, thank you.
It’s not so much that you get stronger from fast tempo it’s just that it’s easier. Jumping from a harder vs easier bench execution I experienced a 20% increase instantly
@@KurokamiNajimi what did you change in your bench execution?
@@ben-dn4sv Usually if I bench now I’m gonna do it without leg drive aka larsen press. I’ve always used a slow tempo on the eccentric and even concentric unknowingly with a 1 second pause. Doing it this way just felt more natural, now I do 3 second pauses. I was curious to start getting an idea of what the difference would be so I did no pausing, went back to leg drive, made the eccentric as fast as I could, and exploded on concentric. The same weight I would get with a 1 RM on the harder variation I could get for 7 reps. If I wanted I could get it even higher bc I never learned how to use leg drive properly I just put my legs down and go and I don’t arch. Then there’s close vs medium vs wide grip
don't train to failure, 4 RIR or even less is good for strength (yes, lower than hypertrophy). maximize Force production and focus on moving a given load as quickly as you can
summary: this study suggests that for strength it is best to move the weight quickly or explosively for multiple sets, without getting close to failure (which would slow you down). meanwhile for hypertrophy it is best to train close to failure, but you can still build muscle even if you don't train to failure.
Strength is fundamentally just neurological adaptation, difference in methods is just how long it’ll take to peak. You probably could work up to just 1 rep at 90% intensity a week (or every other week) and long term have your peak strength. Bc you’ll we already have a lot of strength adaptations just from using 70% intensity. If you’re putting up 160 for 12 on the OHP you likely can do 200 for a max
I’d still do some variations of the lift though again might make the adaptations slower but it’s the healthier way that allows you to be peaked and do high volume year round
I forgot to add merely using a faster tempo and what not isn’t actually making you stronger it’s just the easier execution of the lift. Actually getting stronger is when your numbers go up either from higher intensity adaptations or however you usually perform the exercise increased
Mentzerites pounding sand rn
@@ChrisPBacon9it literally agreed with him lmao
Strength vs hypertrophy........here we go.
Hot damn. I’ve been following the hypertrophy method instead of the strength route, when in reality I’ve just wanted to get stronger. This completely flips my lifting routine on its head 😅
Another great explanation! I tend to appreciate mathematical descriptions and this video really resonated with me. I've had some recent gains and this made perfect sense with that. Thanks so much!
The more I see these studies the more I think that exercise science is missing the big picture and the answer lies in phases / waves.
i.e. run a strength cycle with lots of RPE 7s and lower, then a hypertrophy cycle with lots of machines and RPE 9+. Both fatigue in different ways, so they balance out and a bigger muscle is potentially a stronger muscle.
Also this was kinda known 30 years ago with speed work that suddenly became obsolete for whatever reason
That's called periodization and it's definitely present in the literature though maybe under-studied
@@shane_rm1025 right but the point is that studying training volume in a black box without context of before and after is kinda useless
I haven't read the study (yet), but having done biomechamocs in my grad research and lifting for decades, this makes sense.
If your goal is biggest muscles (hypertrophy), tain to failure.
If your goal is strength endurance, focus on slow twitch muscle growth and isometric with slow, heavy lifts and slow negatives.
If your goal is maximum short-term force production, focus on fast twitch muscle growth through rapid lifts.
I used to alternate 2 days light weight, high number of fast reps, with 2 days of heavy weight, slower lift, lower reps. Perhaps I should have aimed for heavy fast reps instead.
Now that I'm older I probably won't add it. Heavy, fast reps are likely more prone to injury as you age. I'm curious about the science on that too.
Thanks for the heads up. I've never been able to get it straight with the failure training and power training
68 years been training over 50 years still pressing 65 lb dumbells overhead for a dozen reps, always work on speed by concentric fast and 4 second eccentric
My last 2 to 3 are always slower grinders maybe a rep or two from failure proper form
Been training at home with dumbells for last 15 years some sets between 20-30 reps gives my heart a good throttling each time 🎉😅
Thanks for focusing on real scientific research.
It makes a lot of sense, nice video Layne 👌😁
Dan John and Pavel have been stating this for near on 20 years!!!
Nice work Layne - thanks for sharing.
Commenting for the algorithm, thanks for the video.
This very much reflects how many Olympic lifters train. In my estimation they are some of the strongest athletes on earth, p4p.
Also, great video per usual Layne!
One thing which may be worth mentioning (at least in my experience); limiting those “grindy” reps and focusing on improving bar speed can help avoid poor/dangerous form. Building strength with great reps is underrated. I would assume this leads to better program adherence as well since it likely reduces injuries.
Also, training at lower RPEs (6-8 vs 9-10) is inherently a bit easier to successfully execute (again, in my experience. Correct me if I’m wrong). TRUE failure on heavy lifts may be too extreme to demand from your body and mind at high frequency given all the factors which affect your performance. In other words, your entire body and mind need to be on their A++ game. Slept 4 hours?? Good luck on your lifts.
Btw, I’m not necessarily speaking for pro lifters. I’m just an experienced, avid lifter.
I have had my best sessions and hit PRs when I only got 4 hours of sleep. LOL, but you’re right. I probably just got lucky.
For the algorithm to work better
Training for hypertrophy is entirely different, though. This meta-analysis [1] concluded, "Looking only at studies that included resistance-trained individuals, the data shows that training to failure has a significantly greater impact on hypertrophy." One of many studies reaching the same conclusion. Just saying as I know some people don't differentiate strength training and hypertrophy training. Proximity to failure is key for size gains. [1] Effects of resistance training performed to repetition failure or non-failure on muscular strength and hypertrophy : a systematic review and meta-analysis. J Sport Health Sci, 2021. Grgic J, Schoenfeld BJ, Orazem J and Sabol F.
Lots of great information here!!!
I had the best gains when i exploded rep 1 -2 second positive, hold and squeeze for 1-2 seconds, and then have a slow and contrled negative 2-4 seconds.
Personally man, I thoroughly enjoy both philosophies. So incline dumbbell press. I enjoy 2 warm up sets, 3 working sets, and then potentially 1 or 2 15-20 rep sets slow and controlled. Sometimes optimal conditions are trumped by enjoyment which personally, I think no one talks about 🤣
Fantastic point at the end. If you’re not getting paid to lift, then lifting is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be fun. For the average lifter, there is a balance to strike between most effective and most enjoyable.
A better and simpler way to look at it is the closer to failure you get, the less sets you need.
Slow and controlled stretch-mediated has me growing well, along with reps in reserve.
Finally giving respect to the acceleration component!😊
Seems like you can do both. Do your strength far from failure then hit a couple of sets or even one set to failure, maybe at a lighter and less fatiguing load.
This needs a follow-up. What is the differences between the training close and far from failure? What can an athlete expect from the two, and what should one aim for. If there are any differences at all..
Force production...Best explanation I've heard, yet.
keep up, Layne!
As a fellow powerlifter I do think there is value in going to rpe 9 / 10 to learn how to grind out reps. When you Max out it will be a grinder. It is a skill to grind it out. 90% and 100% are way different. Just my opinion.
Both types of training are a good idea since they compliment each other. Alternate every few weeks
Hey Layne, do you adjust rest intervals based off rep schemes. Say 75% 2x8 rest 4 mins vs 4x4 rest 2 minutes? Or do you keep longer rest intervals despite decreased intensity set to set?
He rests as long as he needs, no need to overthink it
Don't time your rests. When your muscles feel ready to give 100% and you're breathing is back to normal, give'r
I was doing 80lb single leg, legs curls on the 12th rep, I did a minor hamstring strain. A week later I went to do 20lb for some blood flow, and there was no way I was lifting the weight for more than an inch, could do 10lb. If I bench and my elbow clicks on the first rep, making my elbow unstable, there is no way I am getting a second rep, even though if my elbow doesn't click, I could do 20 reps. I was trying to hang from the chinup bar with one hand, no way I could do that, then one day I could hang for 20 seconds either arm. Was like some pathways in the brain shut down and others opened. Strength training seems like rewiring the brain. At some point you don't want to further change your brain, I would think. I do believe what you are explaining is simply just rewiring the brain, which is fine, until something goes wrong, the brain should be rewired as you get conditioned, not forced.
Your entire nervous system adapts to whatever stresses you put on your body. Given adequate recovery, you become more efficient at those movements. Joint clicking and muscle strains are avoidable/fixable and not related to brain pathways unless you have some serious nerve impingement which i doubt. Also, your hamstring strain may have been worse than you think and it takes much longer than a week to heal so it was simply an injury and your body protected you from making it far worse by sending pain signals and weakness because of it. There is absolutely no mental limit to what you can physically achieve in the gym. You don't just learn a deadlift and forget a pullup. Consistency and documenting your workouts will highlight your achievements. Allow proper recovery and warm up well. Best warm up is an easier version of the same movement - primes the nervous system and warms up the exact muscles being used
@@NorThenX047 with the elbow the nerve can rub on the bone, as well as ligaments. I have a referral to get an X-ray to see what's going on. Then I guess a physio.
I fully agree with this study. My personal experience with weighted pullups reflects the same outcome. I did 6 sets of 4-5 reps with 45lbs and over the course of 4 months I am now able to do the same with 55lbs.
Love it, makes a lot of sense!
Don't train to failure, train to success
I used to do high reps gradually adding weight every set , was gaining some mass but not much strength, so I switched to old school five by fives and that's when I started gaining real strength
Excuse my ignorance, but what are 5 by 5s?
@@uncle0ericI think it’s 5 sets for 5 reps per set ..
Thanks
@@uncle0eric no doubt 🦾🦾🦾
Similar to velocity-based training where you use a device that lets you know when you speed has dropped off too much and thus time to stop the set.
I have done pretty well in powerlifting for an unathletic natural, 1275 total. I need to use weights that are 5-15% less than what I can do for a given number of reps. So for example, if I can bench 325 for 3, I can go as low as 85% of the (275) or as high as about 305-310 (95% of that) for triples, with the best results being right in the middle, about 90% of my 3 rep max. When the weights get up to that 95% level it is definitely time to go back and work my way up again. I usually consider 85% of my rep max as lowish developmental load, 90% as medium, and 95% as high, with at least half of my work being at the medium level, which is basically triples at a 7-8 rep max, 5s at around a 10 RM, and 2s at around a 5 rm. Heavier doesn't work for long, maybe 2-3 workouts.
Now "max Effort" like Westside training is different. If you change your exercise so that you are not very proficient in the variation, I think you can go to near a rep max since you haven't learned to train super hard on that variation. So you may have 1 or 2 workouts with a given variation, the first one probably being around the medium level and the second one being heavy, before you are good enough at that version to go to the max. So if you rotate and use variations that you aren't proficient in, I think it is actually a method that prevents excessive overload, while still giving you then "intent" to push as hard as you can.
Great tips, advice makes absolute sense 💪 simple physics
That is really neat findings
So you’re discussing this is the context of power lifting. But what about weight training for general health/fitness and/or age management/mitigation of sarcopenia?
Great info and a great sweater. Happy New years.
Do you know the hoodie brand?
I think it's more like instead of going fast at the begening and getting slower by the end of a set, it would be easy to say that the lifting form can be more accurate doing lower reps by set so the muscle stays more "fresh" each set so your body can more easely lift the weight every time.
Also, I find easier for the body to recover that way as going near or to failure often gets the muscle to hurt for a day or 2 when hit really hard, so that way you can train more often, feel less fatigue and be fresher every time! (Still need at least 2 days off per week in my case but it helps me train the same muscle group everyday and multiple time a day)
My buddy is a powerlifter and been training without getting to failure. Stronger than ever. Squats 3x week
For strength gains is debatable and some can say its counterproductive. But when it comes to something that is common where you have to push past your limits. Training to failure to build a mindset for that activity is important. Fighting and military. Sometimes even certain sports. Cause there is a lot of people with a quitting mindset and frankly just okay with the bare minimum. For bodybuilding okay. For strength. Probably can just do progressive overload. But something where I need to carry some wounded guy out to safety. Or Im already beat the hell up and got 2 more rounds with another fighter. Marathon running has no room for quitting when you have to even finish. Especially Ultras. Your gonna rip or tear a quad...its gonna happen. Barely anyone after such a long grueling run is gonna finish with just a hot spot on the foot. Your gonna get thrashed and you need the mental and physical training to push past the threshold where bare minimum training will not do.
Channel name change noted 👀👌
Everyone should know by now the difference between hypertrophy and strength training.
There is no difference other than if you don’t care about max strength you don’t have to lift. To get as strong as possible you have to get as big as possible
Even without this info, one reason for not going too close to failure is injury risk. It's terribly hard to maintain proper technique through a slow grinder rep. Save the grinders for competition day and stay safe.
F=M*A is not appropriate when discussing movement against gravity unless you look at acceleration as 32 ft/sec squared.
Brilliant - thank you!
Enjoyed the video ❤
Would love your thoughts on "power building" or anything else to help people that have both strength and size as a yearly goal
I ultimately care more about strength than aesthetics, _and_ I'm close to burned out on high-rep sets, so this is good info. However I'm nervous to do 90% 1RM with no spotter . . .
Get yourself a rack or spotter bars.
Benching anywhere near failure without spotter bars is one of the dumbest things i ever see!
Strength sports are also a skill I think keeping the speed and exploding is best for practicing for your 1rm for comp since you only do a single
yep the first reps are the most effective for strength, not the last, as long as you use fast concentric (max force)
Cool, Thanks great info
On the real, just use modern periodization: muscle hypertrophy phase (at least several mesocycles, block or blocks) and then a strength/power phase (a few mesocycles, a block), and then a taper/peaking phase (a mesocycle, or maybe a couple/few microcycles) and then express your strength/power in a testing microcycle. Rinse and repeat.
How you train for adding muscle mass will be different from how you train to use given muscle mass to move more load or that load more rapidly. Then, you have to wash out fatigue and prep your body neurologically and psychologically to express your max strength/power at some point.
Someones been watching dr mike
For the algorithm 💪🏼
Going from a bodybuilding show to a powerlifting meet are incredibly different training styles. For example benching 5 sets of 8 is typical bodybuilding in a pyramid style.
Powerlifting could look more like 5 sets of 3, with none of those slow grinder reps. My hypertrophy result is similar, but my power seems to go way up, training with speed, low reps and weekly increases in weight.
Good video. I agree.
OK - So for Strength, 6x3@RPE6 is better than 3x6@RPE9.
But what if i don't have time for 6 or more sets?
A more relevant Question is: Are 3 sets of 3 fast reps better than 3 sets of 3 heavier/slower reps?
So 3x3@RPE6 vs 3x3@RPE9.
There is so much nuance when it comes to strength and hypertrophy. Factors such as age, experience, stress, work, food, rest, etc…
More importantly, each person is unique. As a nationally ranked powerlifter, I know that going too heavy, too often causes me to break down. I actually see the volume as a key driver. If I do one really hard set to failure, say a set of 8 to failure. That will influence my future sets. I find it’s much better to keep my RIR to 3-4 reps on most sets, until I have a max test day. This allows lots of practice, and keeps we fresh and healthy.
it depends of how often person is training.
If you train muscle group once a week you only get results with maximum reps of weight that you can control.
Big weights only offer bigger possibility for injury
Layne - have you written or do you recommend any papers/articles that differentiate between the training aspect of the movement vs. the strength? For example, as I understand it, if I practice a type of squat using a particular Technique X, I not only grow my muscles and strength, but also my coordination and efficiency at technique X- hence I will be more competitive (higher 1-rep-max) with Technique X. However, if I train with a different type of squat Technique Y, I will less competitive (lower 1-rep-max) in in Technique X, but higher 1-re-max in Technique Y.
It might be said that the choice to measure strength in terms of 1-rep-max begs the question of "strength." Pehaps a better measurement for what we call "strength" is how many reps of particular quantity (or say, 85% 1-rep-max for an individual) a person can complete before failure?
It seems the appropriate additional case for this study is to measure the number of reps people can do at 85% (or whatever) to failure based on whether they trained for force or trained to failure. If they did this test - do you project that the group that trained to failure would be able to do more reps of a particular weight to failure than the group that trained for force/1-rep-max?
This video could’ve likely been made as a short describing “cluster sets” tbh
Would love if Layne could explain why he needs coaching at his level.
I disagree. The amount of muscle mass you have is also a big contributing factor of your strength. So if training close to failure grows more muscle, you're also going to gain more strength in the long term.
The reason why the group training close to failure had less strength is probably because they were more fatigued. If they were to rest for a week and then test their 1rm, they would have had more strength. Training close to failure only reduces strength in the short term.
Interesting. Thanks!
What exactly happens to the body during these quick heavy reps? Is there more activation of your neuromuscular system - which leads to what exactly? A better connection with your muscles neurologically? ToT is not important for strength ie. Muscle tearing down to build more later which I guess is pointless if you cannot forcefully contract the muscles to accomplish whatever you are setting out to do.?
Thanks for the great info. Sorry if my question is worded poorly or if you’ve covered it in the past.
sounds like he's just saying the quick heavy reps don't have the downsides(fatigue) of the slower reps, not necessarily that the body is doing anything else different.
I don't think it's the connection to the muscle but rewiring the brain. To shut off pathways that say no and open new ones that say yes. I am sure if you did a brain scan of someone prior to powerlifting and then did one years later, much different areas of the brain would light up due to activity. Would have to be a good thing to some point, but would then become a negative
I really like this video, It's good to see more focus on strength rather than hypertrophy. This also begs the question if Prilepin's table would work for powerlifting or if there is a version adapted to powerlifting?
I think Ben Pollack has a video about converting Prilepin's table to powerlifting and/or hypertrophy work.
Glad I read PTTP by Pavel Tsatsouline many years ago.
greasing the groove was designed for strength gains and it’s all about staying away from failure. Pavel already knew lol
@@ngatihonky yup!! That book was key in my training.
Can you do a video on Jim Stoppani’s 4-minute muscle routine?
Thank you for your scientific videos and your work. They are fantastic. I have a doubt though. You said that in order to improve strenght someone should use several sets with 4 reps approximately, movimd the load as quick as possible, considering that F: m (kg) x a (m/s2) or 1 g. But, doing as you said, we move the load considering the volocity (m/s), for example using a line encoder , that u use if i am not wrong, therefore we obtain the expression of Power, and therefore doing so, we train the explosive strenght but not the max one. Thus" maximasize explosive force production". Please, let me know what you think, and i am sorry for my english 😊, because is not perfect and i hope i explained myself.
Those grindy sets help me move loads faster in the long run. As long as I am mindful about when I’m going after heavy sets (for example, peaking only a couple times per month and then deloading), in my experience it’s been easier to develop speed, power, and maintain form by embracing a few grindy reps now and then. Seems like a lot more needs to be studied to draw these conclusions.
Interesting and informative
If you use progressive resistance you will get stronger
Honestly the study is riddled with so many limitations and has not been peer reviewed or published that I don't think one should make recommendations based on this or based on physics formulas.
I find this really confusing. Take my OHP as an example. I go all out with 0 RIR and 8 reps as my hypertrophy work.
Then my strength work would be the same but only 4 reps.
What??!?!
Hey man, thanks for breaking down and sharing this information. Question - I understand the force and acceleration thing, makes sense. However, should you also train slow reps? Thinking being fast reps may allow momentum to carry you through a sticking point that may be a failure point at heavier weight where the rep is slower.
You also need to call an audible once in a while. Some days you just don't feel strong. Tired. getting over being sick, ect... So I at least, need to re-judge the percentage of my 1RM I'm going to do.
Yet when people have bad joints and can’t increase the load safely we teach them to slow down the tempo…. How do you square that circle?
Yes, as with everything there’s nuances.
Thank you 👍
I believe you said that speed is important for strength, but isn't that what power is and how it differs from strength? I got confused. I thought in strength you move the bar slowly and time doesn't matter, whereas in power it does matter, and you try to move the weight as quickly as possible to improve explosiveness.
Wise video.
Here's what I don't understand about this: If you're using a weight you can do 10 reps with (granted two are grinders) that's essentially a bodybuilders range but then you're saying to cut the reps by 50 or 60% and just do the explosive rep portion. So when do you get under heavy load if your heavy load days are using 80% or your 1 rm? The explosive rep argument sounds similar to what Westside Barbell did for decades on its dynamic training days, although their weight would be much lighter closer to 50% or 1 rm. But they would also have a max effort day that they would go very heavy for a couple reps. (I mean sure you already know this.) But my question is, when do you as a power lifter get accimilated to heavy loads. Because using a weight you can get 10 reps with and stopping at 4 isn't going to do it.
In my 25 years of strength training the biggest lesson has been ”training to failure leads to injury” and you learn to use bad technique.
So if you wan’t to maximize muscle building, doing a set of bench stopping a rep before failure and picking up a set of dumbbells going to failure with flyes would make you much less prone to injury than benching to failure and beyond.
So basically ur against Mike Mitzer and his theory with the Hit training program?
@@tonytran7382yes and no, it depends on the exercise selection.
HIT is dangerous in squats, deadlift and benchpress for example, but latpulldowns, legpresses and cableflyes could work very well.
Just my experience from an injury perspective. I must add that HIT is aimed at bodybuilding and not strength development.
@@powertothepeople3832 Then what is the best program to get shredded?
I remember reading that Russian weightlifters back in the day used to never train to failure, saying "training to failure is training to fail".
Interesting! Well that's cool, I guess I'm going back to 185-205 lb squat for a while.
This is why a lot of strength people do the 5x5.
But wont building muscle maximize force production also?
Long term, wont you jeed to build a lot of muscle to maximize force production?
My take away- Just exercise. I do what feels good. I don't think about it too much. Unless you are aiming to compete, just do something. I started by doing 3000 push ups in a month and have progressed to a mix of other bodyweight exercises. I feel great and never "fail" because I only ask myself to do "something" every week. Sometimes it's only a couple hundred push ups and a few dozen pull ups, other weeks it's 3-4 days of whole body workouts.
Agreed you don’t want to get paralysis by analysis just do something.
I don't really agree with this. If I "just exercise", I get bored and annoyed that I have no direct measurement of progress. I like to pick goals and go after them, that way I know if I'm actually making progress or not. That's what keeps me motivated. I agree you shouldn't overthink it, but if you don't think about it at all, it'll feel like you're not accomplishing very much and you may just become completely disinterested.
You can’t just do what “feels good” when it comes to making measurable long term progress. It terms of just getting started, then absolutely just get movement and do something, but feelings are fleeting. You are not going to maintain your motivation just off your feelings. You need some structure and some progression eventually to maintain motivation.
And you probably have and are going to have a mediocre physique/strength for the the rest of your training career, people who aren’t genetic freaks are going to need consistent and logical structure in their training for success
@@dogbreedsareamyth9409might not unlock much strength, but this, in time, with good nutrition, will lead to looking better, being healthier than 99.9% of the population
Heavy single combined with low rpe volume work done with as high force production as possible? Congrats on inventing conjugate
Couldn't another reason for having more RIR be that your technique will still be closer to the ideal one you want with your 1 RM?
I mean for the last couple of reps you aren't only losing speed but most often the form takes a somewhat dive too. At least compared to the "ideal form" (it may not be bad in a dangerous way).
And not only that, some muscles may fatigue quicker than others when doing, for example a set of 8 with 0 RIR compared to a set of 4 with 4 RIR. Different types of coordinated muscle activations in a state with also more metabolic fatigue. Not something that is happening with a 1 rep max.
In addition to that then also getting more overall systemic fatigued and losing the power effect talked about here.
All in all a win win anyway for not going to failure if it comes to getting good at lifting a max weight in a very technique driven compound movement as close to the real thing without beating body to smitherens!
Noob here. What happens to the body when it gets stronger without much hypertrophy? Meaning, what happens strutcturaly to the muscle, joints, etc? Is strength a combination of factors or is it something isolated?
Maybe I will try this now, I have always trained very close to failure since I started powerlifting, because I always thought that it's the only way that actually works for me. Lifting submaximal just always made me weaker. However I have never thought about it in the sense of the movement speed. I have been off the gym for some weeks so I may try it now while I am restoring my strength.
Yes, I try to do my lifts fast, longer rest and go again. The question is, how heavy do you know how to lift? I guess you go to failure occasionally to test it. I am so old and weak frankly I am happy if I can do five reps at puny weights.
Prinlepin‘s chart has been right all along it seems. Funny stuff
So... if training for strength is optimal at 4RfF, and Hypertrophy at or very near failure, what happens when we train 2RfF? is that the sweetspot for general "strength" training to improve fitness, physique, and performance?
For the algorithm!
What about pushing beyond failure and doing long-length partial reps way beyond what you would get from only doing FROM?