Reminded me of Vivian Meier, who took over 100,000 photos throughout her life that were only discovered after her death. She took photographs for her own pleasure and for her own sake and never received any reward - or “likes” so to speak. Unless you're a professional who makes a living at it, ask yourself why you're so upset about the lack of appreciation from others. Our deepest, most sincere values are visible in the things we do, even when no one else cares or sees.
Yes her story and discovery after her death is what got me into street photography If the motivbation is internally driven then there is no need for instagram and the like
After I've read about Vivian I was wondering was there more similar "stories" , but the box with film or photos were just put into trash or something. I think her story is truly inspiring and quite motivating during our times, when photography is so mass because of smartphones and most probably there is only one person who really cares about your photography - it's you 🙃
I've thought a lot about this. There are two questions every photographer needs to ask themselves: 1) Why do I **make** my photographs? 2) Why do I **share** my photographs. The answers will be different for different people, are often confused with each other, but are rarely the same. One connecting theme, at least for anyone who aspires to make art through their photography, is authentic self-expression. This should be the goal of art (not uniqueness, as some think). For me, at least, I make photographs with the goal of making images that I love; that I can then hang on my wall and smile and remember and feel again that moment of wonder. I want to capture the fleeting experience of my life as beautifully and faithfully as I can. This is self-expression with the emphasis on self. For that, no one's judgment matters but my own. But I share my images with the goal of **connecting** with others - **sharing** my self, my experience, and my feelings - and I do that, I think, to seek communion with others. Simon Baxter understands this distinction, and I think all of us would do well to embrace it.
That's how I felt in the beginning of my career for sure and it's awesome BUT then I wanted to serve others and boy that was hard to figure out but I did and do and WOWZA what a better feeling in my life that I have with what I create :)
Hanging a picture on a wall is the fun thing to do with a photograph. Sadly, most people wouldn't know a great work of art from a fast food hamburger. But for us, it is a hobby first, a way of documenting our life and many times, just for fun. Taking pictures of family and friends gets far more attention than a rotting tree in a forest. We like the tree, everyone else likes pictures of themselves and family. Quite simple. We have to know our target audience, the critics and family/friends. Most of the time, we do it for our personal satisfaction. And let's be real, there are trillions of photos out there that look the same, cover everything in existence and beyond so we should not get too excited about being THE greatest. We are but one in a million photographers.
Agree, yesterday I framed an photo I took with a 2004 6mp camera. I absolutely love this scene. I have taken thousands of photos over the years, nobody sees what I see in this one image, I don't care.
Sean, I appreciate this take on “popular” work vs “mature” work. I do post on FB and find that the Likes are for the typical (easy) pieces, while the images that are kinda beyond my “norm,” are not so popular. I’ve been shooting for over 20 yrs & believe that my images have improved. When I “step out” of the norm, I don’t receive as many likes. Initially, I thought that I was just not doing a good job. After listening to your video here, I’m thinking that perhaps I’m moving beyond my friends/acquaintances appreciations. Sigh. I really am not sure, but making art pieces that are different and a bit out of my own comfort zone bring me more pleasure than the same ol’, same ol.’
This was so timely for me Sean. I have been shooting for over 15 years. I was invited to participate in my first group photography show in an art gallery. The show comes down next week and I have sold nothing. One of the other photographers exhibiting work shoots and edits their work on their iPhone. They have sold multiple pieces, which leaves me scratching my head. I realize sales do not equate to quality or ability, but it is hard to ignore. I am proud of my work and feel my skill as a photographer has steadily grown. I shoot for myself, which is what I need to remind myself. Thanks again, Sean
Aww dang. I can totally understand that. It's still pretty awesome that you were featured in a show, though! I get jazzed when a friend uses one of my picture as a wallpaper for a while lol.
Out of curiousity what are your thoughts on the other photographers iphone photos? Were they simple and loud or complex and nuanced? Did you enjoy them? Were they of a different genre than your work?
Agreed with @bladerealm124 - I wouldn't discount a photographer purely because they used a phone. A lot of great photographers in history have used cameras with significantly lower quality sensors. The more common trap is the opposite - people assume that a great camera will make their pictures great. That, and the subject of this video, are both dangerous because some people will use it as an excuse to stop improving themselves.
As a photographer for over 40 years, now, I wholeheartedly agree with yours and Simon’s sentiments. Thanks for another fine collection of insights, Sean.
As an economist (amateur photographer) I must say that the concept of “sales man” is precise. The elements and values that you describe are those that I learned in my university studies. Thank you so much for the video !
Great thoughts that reflect my experiences. I live near Hamburg, where it's easy to take those high-contrast black and white photos that are hyped on social media. The first pictures make me proud, but it quickly became boring. I took the "Dumbo Manhattan Bridge View" with my iPhone this year, it didn't take a minute and I got likes. On the other hand, it's a real challenge for me to capture the simple beauty of the salt marshes on the North Sea with their muted colours and minimalist structures, and my best pictures will hardly get any likes on social media.
@@cliveadams7629Not every artists want or need to sell their art. Indeed, most artists never do. Of those who do, frighteningly few are successful enough that they can pursue their art without compromising it to make it more likely to sell. It’s okay to sell out, just don’t pretend your art is meaningful anymore. As a practical example, the wedding photographer who takes the same bland portraits every couple wants and expects. Are we supposed to believe that all wedding photographers are in some sort of hive mind and share the exact same taste? Of course not. They compromise their integrity to make a product the client wants. That’s not a criticism, I admire the skill it takes. But it’s no more art than the plumbing in my house, the wiring loom in my car or the detection of the Higgs boson.
Far and away one of the most thoughtful RUclipsrs speaking to creatives today. Excellent stuff, Sean-increasingly glad I found your channel amongst all the gear reviews and hype videos.
This entire video is wonderful, but the comparison of character vs personality is absolute gold. Thanks again Sean (and Simon) for more worthwhile philosophy for me to mull on.
This could be possibly one of your best videos or spoken subject. Not only about photography but I find it an amazing reflection about human nature or social behavior that I never reflected on it the way you now show. Also about how our personal growth can be linked or conditioned by what others think or what we do think others expect from us as value. Congratulations. This is pure photography talk but with a very powerful message about life in general.
I think there is also the third type of photographer that "likes" other's works. Ones, possibly like me, who have been a professional photographer for a long time (since 1976 for me) and appreciate the work of others, and to support those photographers visions. Yes, there is an over abundance of likes on images that are gratuitous that may have little skill or technique, but on social media there will always be those types. As a good friend of mine once said; "Sure, you can make a pretty image of a pretty person or location, but rarely do those 'photographers' make a compelling and emotionally captivating image". Thank you for sharing with us Sean, and thank you again for The Meaning of the Making books!
This has to be the most impactful video I have watched and heard in such a long time. Everything the both of you said was true - I have grown a lot as a photogrpaher and I am also guilty of passing by photos I used to like when I was a beginner. I learned to just post what I like for me and for those who appreciate my work. I don't care about likes or engagement as much as I used to.
My wife and I watched this with our morning coffee. So timely and needed in our journeys! Thanks for doing what you do and for providing such great teaching. Cheers ☕️
I really appreciate that you’re able to consider your own work in such a clear-sighted way. It can be tricky to be objective when thinking about the merits of your own work and your practice. Always so much so think about in your videos, thank you.
So well articulated. Unfortunately, many people still perfectly equate likes with inherent worth; it is a powerful drug. Many will be happy to stay on that Merry-go-round forever. How many genuine talents will be lost to this diversion we will never know.
This applies not only to social media. I usually get the most positive feedback from friends and family for the most basic techniques. For most people, a simple long exposure will do the trick. "How did you get the train to be transparent?! That looks so cool, you can see the platform behind it! That's real art!!"
Loved the video and the message. It reminded me of your conversation with Saddoris, where you mentioned the first drawing your mom put on the fridge, praising it, and how good it felt. The need for approval seems to stick with many of us for a while; shaking it off is the challenge.
Man you hit the point here up to today I was thinking of this Don't please the machine and socials please yourself and grow as an artist Kudos sir I love these videos and interviews very inspiring and informative
A famous photographer in the sixties, his name escapes me now, said and it shocked me totally at the time, that he "couldnt understand why amateur photographers took photos". I believe it was directed at the fact that we don't sell or exhibit but that has changed today, entering competitions I do know, I am the only one that cares about my images.
Sean - you were one of the first photographers I watched on RUclips a couple of years ago when I was starting to be more serious about my photography - it was a video on how to edit to make striking portraits. I've developed in a different direction now, more towards seascapes, landscapes and nature, but videos like this one cut across genres and can inform and inspire anyone. I really think you are the most thoughtful and thought provoking photographer on RUclips today. Thank you!
Great insight. I could care less about "likes" and "followers," but I do need to "market" because I shoot human models, so I need volunteers. And those volunteers, by and large, are people I'll only meet if I'm active on social media, getting enough like-juice to be seen, and capture their attention instantly when they scroll by. My more complex work rarely if ever gets posted. The models of course expect our shoot to mostly result in more of my (somewhat) soecial media friendly work from the past, with their own face swapped in, because they are *also* hoping to attract the attention of...you guessed it... beginner photographers and models who follow them. Can't just pay models to shoot what I want, wish I had that financial freedom, so I just have to give the people what they want, and spend a *little* of each shoot also doing more experimental work that hopefully, some day, will have a venue and an audience who can appreciate it.
This came at the right time for me, just when I think I’m sharing my best photos, the ones that show my growth as a photographer, the engagement has dropped off a cliff. I’m choosing to believe in myself, but there is that voice in the back of my head that says “what if you’re just not very good?”. This video is encouraging and helps to remind me to not worry about social media and to keep taking photos, and do that for me. If I’m good, and deserve recognition, I’ll get that eventually. In the meantime, I should just enjoy the process of learning and the thrill of being out there taking it all in.
I think this is a huge thing to be aware of with the Instagram space. People follow accounts because they like to see a consistent brand presented to them, not because they want to see the photographer’s individual growth. The skill needed to succeed there is less brilliance at photography and artistic skill as it is marketing and branding strategy.
Thank-you for pointing out this issue. I continue to shoot almost exclusively with film. I’ve been doing so for the last 40 years. And let’s be honest, the worst way to view any art form is on an electronic screen. My photography has surpassed what most of my friends understand. I’ve seen this happen with my other art form: ceramics. I look for nuance and delicate light or form. Most people don’t understand that type of artistic growth. Just look at the screen-saver on your computer. Hyper colors, unrealistic exposures and layered images. The digital “salesman” has lowered the artistic bar and convinced the average consumer of art that only brash and bombastic will work as art. Subtlety and character mean very little today. Please continue to address this issue with the available solutions: like visiting real art galleries on a regular basis or joining a local artists guild/association.
Lovely reminder. I care about my photography. Everyone else needs to show me. I actually have some pretty supportive experienced and talented photographers in my sphere, but the haters can get wild if they think I challenge their world view. Better to just do me. Thanks for this
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!! I've been thinking about this but was never able to verbalize it so eloquently even to myself. Shortened attention span and never ending stream of new "in-your-face" images to scroll through don't lend themselves to photos that require time and/or effort to appreciate.
Agree. I have never thought social media is the right place to be looking for affirmation or criticism of your work. As you rightly point out most of those commenting and liking are novices. They have never studied photography or art for that matter in a meaningful way. The best photographers are those who have a quiet confidence in what they do and will not be led by the crowd. This needs a bit of courage. Simon Baxter is a great example. I love his approach to woodland photography. If I was looking for affirmation of my photography, I would seek it from photographers I admire not Instagram.
I definitely agree with you and Simon. There are pictures that I post on socials and others that are for exhibitions. An image like the second one Simon shows would have no sense in a "double tap, scroll" context. To be able to set an audience when you decide to take a picture is extremely important. Thank you for sharing
One last thought on all this (provoked by yet another brilliant video by Sean) is that we can kid ourselves into thinking because we have no recognition that we can do great work for ourselves. That we are a unique snowflake that nobody has ever seen. That we are that tree that falls in the woods that nobody hears. Because my father was a well-known photographer, (and I see this as a gallery owner when asked for shows), growing up I got to meet and know many of the greats, ranging from Richard Avedon to Diane Arbus, Elliot Erwitt, Annie Leibovitz, Arnold Neuman, W. Eugene Smith, Slim Aarons, Irving Penn, and on and on. And one thing I observed in all of them - their most common shared trait besides raw talent - and why they all got noticed and on the map, (while having brilliant work of course) is that they were all, to a person, major hustlers, salesmen and self-promoters and marketers; and some indeed were true hucksters. None of them had small egos, and all took themselves deadly seriously. It should also be noted this was before photography became something available on millions and millions of phones. The cavalcade of brilliant images out there now rivals some of the best work I have seen. For me, when people ask me what a "real" photographer is these days, I come down to intent. Real photographers commit fully to the work, see it as the main thrust of their lives and pursue it day in and day out. It has nothing to do with being a "professional". They do want to show their work to communicate with the world through images. The rest of us? We take pictures and maybe that is enough. But when someone approaches me for a show, I look for someone with serious intent, not whether or not they are a hack wedding photographer or are a "professional". The difference between a "pro" and an "amateur" is irrelevant. For me intent and the ability of the photographer to show me one true thing is all I look for.
Great video. This reminds me of Fred Herzog, considered a pioneer of colour photography in the 1950’s and 60’s. It was very difficult to print colour photos back then, so he kept taking pictures of life in East Vancouver, and working as a medical photographer. His work was not really recognized until he was 77 years old, but it did not matter. He did not do it money of fame. He just kept up taking photos, pushing that rock up the hill.
@chrissteward I lived in Vancouver Fred Herzog was immediately recognised by people who know photography just as Dostoevsky as soon as he wrote and published his work. Fred Herzog did not show his work to the public work 20 years as soon as he did I don’t know a single person who did not like it
I find that social media images need to have an big immediate impact to the viewer, myself like Simon enjoying the woodlands creating images that some have low impact on these platforms But when these images are on a A3 paper of choice, then it holds the viewers eye of natural beauty.
Spot on and well put. It's easy to get side tracked when previous success is suddenly fading. You wonder what you are doing wrong while all you did is getting better. Many thanks for the encouraging pep talk.
As always Sean your videos remind me how I was originally drawn to becoming a photographer. It was finding those rare gems of photos that became more interesting the longer I looked at them and wanting to create gems of my own. We are bombarded with so many images these days, particularly on social media, that it can be challenging to slow down and find those pictures that say more than just the obvious.
Very true. Thank you! What we should remember here however is that people who are using Instagram and other platforms watch images on the small screen of their smartphones and we as photographers should know that rules of composition work differently for small picture size of the phone and big one like painting half the wall size. It's good to present the image in a way (size) that matches it's composition and character.
Also, many photographers ignore the greats of the past and fine art photography. Originality is key. A few months ago I saw a devastating exhibition of young girls with Down syndrome by Dorothy Lange. I've seen equally stunning shows by Francesca Woodman, Stieglitz, Crewdson, Struth, Cindy Sherman, Rodney Graham, Hiroshi Sugimoto, Marilyn Minter, Catherine Opie, Jeff Wall, Mapplethorpe, and perhaps my favorite, the photograms of Adam Fuss. There are many celebrated and great photographers alive today, perhaps the most in history. The likelihood of taking your camera, and clicking off a photo of a landscape or a person and expecting great photography is next to nothing. Great photographers must study art history. _"Do something. Do something to it. Do something else to it."_ - Jasper Johns
Bravo Sean. Packaging over content, personality over character; simplicity over complexity. I scroll, sometimes I pause, but, when I find myself stopping to really look at and absorb an image, I often come away with more complex thoughts and feelings. I think I'm getting too old for eyecandy. I love your work. Thank you for sharing.
Love this. Great analogy with the quietness of character versus flashy personality. Another issue with 'getting the attention' you think a favorite image deserves is the tiny venue in which your work is shown on social media. The detail and complexity of great work is overlooked and invisible to the masses because of the tiny resolution offered for viewing. Subtleties are lost, as well as the opportunity to learn from those who have mastered their craft. We're turning into a society of half-second reviews and a double-click.
My opinion is that you're absolutely correct. It also applies to RUclips. I'd love to watch some advanced topic sometime, but it seems like everyone are doing the same "top 10" clickbaits over and over again. Getting watch hours and likes. This unfortunately also includes me. I target my videos mostly to beginners, because that's where the interest lies. When I cover a more advanced topic, I always seem to get less traction on those videos. Great thoughts, will take them with me in the future and think about my strategies and choises. Thanks S.
Really apreciate what you`ve said to be honest, as someone who's trying to find a certain style of photography to identify with, everytime I upload some photo I think it's at least interesting, I find out it gains very little atraction and as a consequence I ask myself "What am I doing wrong?" instead of just liking the very photo as is, it seems tho I am giving the power to the public in some way and adapting my style to what gains more likes and its a dangerous road to go through, thank you for making us aware of this perspective!
Hi Sean, I don't tend to comment much, though I've watched all your videos and bought your photography books. I just wanted to say your channel is my favorite on RUclips because of your depth and thought-provoking content. Thank you for what you make.
the size of the picture you're looking at also plays a large role in how its digested. 1 photo might have to be printed to A0 to appreciate, while others are better viewed small and quickly, like on a phone or in a book. I think we're at an interesting time in the history of photography because of A: there's a lot of different ways to appreciate a photo. and B: so many more people are improving their understanding of photos, how to read them, that it's pushing towards a global language. the key is to understand the importance of sharing, how and why, moving into the future. photography isn't just an art for art snobs anymore
You and Simon are bang on. Those images that you posted of the sheep and the person in the wheelchair tell stories and most people on SM aren't interested, there only interested in the images that go bang , not that there is anything wrong with those , but your right less attention gets paid the story images I feel. I like to print t my work regularly and make dummie books , which I have a lot of and curate them as more images come in it feels very creative and that's how I started many decades ago. I tend to work on projects more now of an area could be street, landscape, more often from road trips so includes road houses etc . I love it. I post much less now and the stress relief is worth it
Easily the best photography channel on youtube. Stopping and thinking about what it is we do, and who we do it for, is important. How do we negotiate social media and its impact on our own work as photographers whether professional or amateur.
It was so helpful to hear Sean talk about newbies and where they get their feedback from. As someone who has only been taking photographs seriously for a year, it made me think about why I post online. What I think I look for, and I suspect is the same for others is, validation and encouragement, particularly if you have started this late in life as I have with little confidence. However posting on social media can be used as a learning opportunity. Whilst much of the "likes" I get may well be almost indiscriminate, after a year of posting I have come to acknowledge that those photographs that get more likes are usually my better ones ( and by better I don't mean good in any sense at this stage!). I have realised that I am now being far more thoughtful about the ones I share, and I think (hope) this indicates growth and self honesty. I hope this is a process many go through, and I hope that in another year I will post much less, and better quality. I think this is a sign of progress, increased confidence that many have achieved. I hope also by then to have a better sense of why I do this at a much deeper personal level- all I know right now is it gives me great joy and pleasure, has opened up a new world to me, and for now , that's enough.
Thanks Sean, your videos have always been so inspiring... You are able to pick up the thoughts of a photographer and talk about it .. Comforting..Thanks for your effort in making these videos ..May you grown leaps and bounds...🙏
This resonates with me so much, right now! Beautiful said by you and Simon. I’ve recently started to understand why it is I take photos and the types of images I want to take. Sadly, this was previously dictated (more influenced) by the social media platforms based on the likes for particular images or styles. I now know my path, the likes are minimal or ‘slow burns’ but for me that now sits more comfortably as it feels vindicating because the work is for me and is representative of my maturing style. Thank you, Sean (and Simon).
Great video and so true. Talking about growth of your photography, which I fully understand, makes me wonder how you measure that growth without resorting to the likes on IG, or judges comments in a competition which are so often driven by stereotypical reasoning. I know my photography constantly develops, I hope for the "better" and this usually means that the images say something, alone or in a project, rather than just being there to look at. What they say may vary from person to person, and hopefully is quite clear to most viewers without being elevated by the author to some level of pretention. Its all very personal and subjective, but maybe that is what "growth" is all about - thinking !!
For me growth is doing my own research, and looking at the work of some of the greats to see the heights photography can reach both in technique and meaning, and then comparing what I'm learning to my own work over time to see progress towards those lofty heights... but not 'social media scores'.
Thank you for this. I’ve been photographing since film in the 70s then into digital and about a year ago I put down my cameras. This video is exactly what I needed to pick them back up and go back to photography for myself like in the beginning. I left social media and deleted most of my presence and thought “no one cares” when it never should have mattered. I really really needed this. 🫶
Hi Sean. This one really hits home. I've been in a photographic rut lately. I love "street" photography but have found that when I go out and shoot, I'm all too often confronted with the same old shots that you see all over social media (and that I've taken plenty of times myself). Stealing a page (or thought) from your book, I feel as if I'm in that liminal space between shooting the same old shots and not yet finding a new direction. I know I'll eventually find my vision so I'm not worried. Just need some time to work through it. Interesting that you mentioned Susan Cain's Quiet. Just finished it and couldn't help but having felt similar thoughts to your observations.
Fascinating and thought-provoking discussion. I tend to share my 'more obvious' images and not my what I call my 'quiet' images. I liked Simon's thinking on this. Thank you.
interesting that you’re talking about your audience as being photographers. I’ve never really thought of photographers as being the people I want most to be looking at my images. It’s too tempting for us to make comparisons with our own work or become distracted by the how rather than the why to be an objective and fully appreciative audience.
Yep, for YEARS my audience wasn't photographers. I feel that's why photographers give up so fast or they end up teaching photography like I did later in my career. I WILL say I still license my work and I feel much happier than teaching how I shot my work :)
Dear Sean, You have no idea how this video could have come at a better time. I really appreciate you posting this. I've been a professional photographer for quite a while. Most of my work is never seen owing to the clients I deal with. As a result, I don't get the recognition or feedback of my work that I and my clients consider good. That does make me question if I'm any good or have lost my edge. I need to realize that I wouldn't be hired if it wasn't. I'm not trying to sell myself, instead showing evidence of this. Your approach to psychological mentoring is one that goes so much deeper than so many videos found on RUclips. As a result, has a longer-lasting effect and carries more gratitude. Thank you 🙂
This is a great conversation because it has been happening in my own work and I hadn’t noticed. You’re absolutely right that simple images attract (for lack of a better term) simple minds. I look forward to slowly shifting my work to reflect my true interests.
Very well put Sean! We must outgrow "the Internet", the crowd, as they are in great majority just amateurs. Therefore, the older I grow, the more photo-books I buy. Great video and interview with Simon!
I love your videos Sean. Your channel has been always my source of inspiration, along with Simon's and the other photographers I have found in this space. I am glad that I started watching your videos when I was just starting to do photography in my spare time. At first, it kind of hurt me when no one's liking my photos. Social media is a trap for us photographers. Yes, we would like to share our images but the system of likes and taps, not to mention the feed algorithms hurt our growth and appreciation in our own craft. Eventually, I grew out of sharing my photos online. I only share a couple once every few months. I now realize that I should take my photographs with my heart and gut, as much as I would like. Photography is my private space to get lost in, recover and nourish my sense of self and creativity. I am doing photography for myself, not for others (makes sense for a hobbyist photographer like me).
On the other hand, it seems we share our work because we want to communicate something. Sometimes we need to speak the other person's language to get a point across. I can't speak German to a Chinese-speaking audience and expect them to get all my ideas. I have to learn the nuances of Chinese is I want that audience to "get" what I'm trying to say. As you suggested, maybe sometimes we can get caught up trying to communicate to the wrong audience. AmorLucisPhotography distinguished between why we make photographs vs why we share photographs. Many times I make a photograph because the act of capturing gives me pleasure and I print it because the continued viewing also gives me pleasure. Sometimes I tweak a print or digital image in ways that might make my idea a little more clear to my target audience. That concept of character vs personality struck home. Character could be likened to sharing because I want you to understand what I'm trying to say. Personality could be likened to sharing because I want you to like me. Last thought: Federico Fellini said something to the effect of "There is something about the creative mind that feels compelled to narrate the world to other people."
It is so true, it applies to any art form, do you see often jazz in the top chart? It is typically pop. But the jazz players enjoy a different stage… they don’t expect the platinum disk, not because they do not deserve, simply a different audience
First time visiting your channel, basically due to having Simon Baxter in the title. I am not on any social media platform because I don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of my photography. I shoot for myself. Even when I was working as a paid (i.e. "professional) photographer, I didn't care or worry what my clients thought of my work. They hired me based on my portfolio and that is what they got for their money. Besides, most people wouldn't know a good photo anyway. They assumed my work was good (it was) because that was my job. More to the point. I think what you have described here is the quintissential discription of the human condition in the 21st century - popularity over substanstance, character, and integrity. While your essay revolves around photography, I find it perfectly descibes the state of the world today. Give the people what they want; any new gadget that is different from the last new gadget that came out last week or last year; or tell them what they want to hear, even if it is a complete lie or total fiction. That is how you succeed today. Sad.
Thank you Sean! They information you share and the way you share it is simply amazing. Thank you for the inspiration and your honest wisdom. You make us all better by what you do.
One of your best videos! I’m going through that transition now and trying to figure out how to get out of my high intensity (dawns, sunsets) comfort space and into more subtle and challenging work.
Great interaction Sean and you nailed this problem many of us photographers are facing and faced . But for me I summed it up as simply as this “ I creat my own work for myself… to satisfy myself .. that is what motivates me not the “Likes “ or the comments ! Yes its a great feeling to see the amount of likes and read the comments . But it’s not important enough to get any inspiration from them to continue your own journey and to grow in the direction you feel you must head off in . Social media like Facebook only delivers your posts to a set audience and if you don’t pay them to “ boost “ your posts then they simply restrict the content to a very small percentage of those who are following you . I used to pay to boost the posts I uploaded .. then as soon as I stopped paying to boost on Facebook then I noticed the likes and comments fell away fast . I refuse to pay social media to spread my photography page and my work . My work speaks for itself , and I am happy with my work because I photograph for myself to please myself at the end of the day , while you out taking a landscape photo or a wildlife photo the first thing that enters your mind is does this image please you , the last thing you think of personally is will this image please those on social media . Thank you for your input and channel Sean ! 🙏🏻
I like seeing that you’re posting about once a month. I think you’re an important voice in the world of photography. At least, in my world of photography. And to me, that’s what matters. Thank you Sean, for the time you take to create something that is, in its own right, a piece of art.
Thank you for this video. I am definitely on a growing path as a photographer. I love the idea of building character and deeper connection to my work. 🙌😍
I think the falloff in social-media engagement is as much a signal of a sort of saturation of that style of engagement in our lives as anything. There are many more venues, and many more people who are skilled at working within those venues. I've watched engagement fall by a factor of three or more on essentially-equivalent work. It's not because the work is any different, but because the environment has changed. Each 'like' means a little more these days and when someone whose work I respect engages with the work, well, that's even better. It is true that we'll see less initial engagement as we try something new -- that's okay, too. The key in the long-term is to bring together something of what worked for us in the past and our new ideas from today in order to say what needs saying now. When Simon says that the spooky-tree image was easy to put together, it was only easy because he's real good at it. I frequently find that the images that are the most meaningful don't turn out to be difficult photographically, but rather that a well-executed image of a story that needs telling is all that's necessary.
This makes so much sense! And I needed to hear this today! Thank you! Also, extremely interesting to hear the reflection about character vs personality and the switch from responsible mature adult to salesmen in crowded cities. Will certainly keep this video in mind. The growth is so important and is quite unstoppable, no matter the feedback from social media. And that's the way it should be.
Very thought provoking and I am sure there is some validity in what you are saying. I definitely agree that social media encourages certain formulaic work and offers a easy success route. There is nothing wrong with a simple and powerful image, Michael Kenna has been doing this for years. I think the key is about being original and that is the problem with social media, it too easy to copy and social media promotes it whether it be beginners or just people with less cultural capital. I personally believe the true artistic is the person who breaks the mould and does something different
Thank you so much for this, you and Simon have put in words some feelings and thoughts I am having since a few months about my work and social media and greatly helped to put some order in this madness! 😁
Hi Sean, This resonate so well. I’m not saying I’m a great photographer, but ever since I started presenting my work in Galleries I’ve become more and more aware of what you’re saying. Many of the comments here addresses this so I wont ramble on about the same, but I would like to grasp on to what you are saying about personality vs character. You see, as much as I love photography, I can’t live of what I sell. At least not in Norway were the cost of living is extremely high. So I haven’t left my day job as a renowned leadership advisor. And here is my point and why I was so inspired by your speech. Because you don’t really talk about photography do you? I mean, you talk about life and values in life. You talk about who we choose as our guides in our life. For me your talk is very much about leadership. In our quick fix world were we always seek the fastest way to success, and in a way it works, but, and there is a big but here. It does not stick. We are all infected by the dream of 15 minuets of fame. Applied to leadership I see that leaders that can come in and do a quick fix is often preferred over leaders that build culture stone by stone. Leaders that create a culture were workers can grow over time in organisations that deliver over time. In fact you inspired me to make a new leadership seminar to talk about the important of a long term commitment from owners and leaders. So thank you for sharing, and taking time to stop to reflect upon what makes great art, or at least what makes for a great image. Yes the audience is smaller but the loyalty is stronger and in the end loyalty and character takes you longer than the rush of dopamine given by a “like” thrown at you in a “empty” scrolling session.
I never really thought about it this way before but it does make a lot of sense. I ended up deleting most of my social media because I felt like nobody liked my work anymore and it was tough to swallow the amount of effort I put into a photograph to get little attention but perhaps like you say it might be because I reached a new level in photography where my work no longer appeals to beginner photographers on social media. Hmmm, this is pretty interesting. Looking back at my work and I can tell that my work is has changed from more louder images to more nuance and "boring" photos but I enjoy them so much more. Great video Sean. Hope you're doing well.
Learning to not just post consistently to please the algorithm and post pieces that are not meant for that kind of social media and audience, but holding back for when you might have the right space to share that type of work is extremely important.
Excellent commentary and insight in life and in art and how they intersect. Well done Sean. I see why you have over half a million subscribers. Well done indeed. Character over flash. Build depth in your life and in your art. I'm a subscriber now and really look forward to more of your intersection moments.
You never disappoint, I saw this video’s thumbnail days ago but was in a busy time. Preferred to save it to when I could actually immerse in it, and it made my weekend!
Thanks for making this video and the message contained in it. The ending statements really brought home the feeling that I think a lot of us longer term photographers are starting to feel. Great to see Simon also embracing this idea of context in how he approaches taking and sharing his work.
Reminded me of Vivian Meier, who took over 100,000 photos throughout her life that were only discovered after her death. She took photographs for her own pleasure and for her own sake and never received any reward - or “likes” so to speak. Unless you're a professional who makes a living at it, ask yourself why you're so upset about the lack of appreciation from others. Our deepest, most sincere values are visible in the things we do, even when no one else cares or sees.
Yes her story and discovery after her death is what got me into street photography If the motivbation is internally driven then there is no need for instagram and the like
she was a bit nuts though 😅
@@slothsarecool The line between being nuts and being a genius is often very thin.
@@slothsarecool I am following in her footsteps - I took 12,000 photos over the course of 2 days at US Open Tennis championship 😁
After I've read about Vivian I was wondering was there more similar "stories" , but the box with film or photos were just put into trash or something. I think her story is truly inspiring and quite motivating during our times, when photography is so mass because of smartphones and most probably there is only one person who really cares about your photography - it's you 🙃
I've thought a lot about this. There are two questions every photographer needs to ask themselves: 1) Why do I **make** my photographs? 2) Why do I **share** my photographs. The answers will be different for different people, are often confused with each other, but are rarely the same. One connecting theme, at least for anyone who aspires to make art through their photography, is authentic self-expression. This should be the goal of art (not uniqueness, as some think). For me, at least, I make photographs with the goal of making images that I love; that I can then hang on my wall and smile and remember and feel again that moment of wonder. I want to capture the fleeting experience of my life as beautifully and faithfully as I can. This is self-expression with the emphasis on self. For that, no one's judgment matters but my own. But I share my images with the goal of **connecting** with others - **sharing** my self, my experience, and my feelings - and I do that, I think, to seek communion with others. Simon Baxter understands this distinction, and I think all of us would do well to embrace it.
That's how I felt in the beginning of my career for sure and it's awesome BUT then I wanted to serve others and boy that was hard to figure out but I did and do and WOWZA what a better feeling in my life that I have with what I create :)
Hanging a picture on a wall is the fun thing to do with a photograph. Sadly, most people wouldn't know a great work of art from a fast food hamburger. But for us, it is a hobby first, a way of documenting our life and many times, just for fun. Taking pictures of family and friends gets far more attention than a rotting tree in a forest. We like the tree, everyone else likes pictures of themselves and family. Quite simple. We have to know our target audience, the critics and family/friends. Most of the time, we do it for our personal satisfaction. And let's be real, there are trillions of photos out there that look the same, cover everything in existence and beyond so we should not get too excited about being THE greatest. We are but one in a million photographers.
Agree, yesterday I framed an photo I took with a 2004 6mp camera. I absolutely love this scene. I have taken thousands of photos over the years, nobody sees what I see in this one image, I don't care.
Sean, I appreciate this take on “popular” work vs “mature” work. I do post on FB and find that the Likes are for the typical (easy) pieces, while the images that are kinda beyond my “norm,” are not so popular. I’ve been shooting for over 20 yrs & believe that my images have improved. When I “step out” of the norm, I don’t receive as many likes. Initially, I thought that I was just not doing a good job. After listening to your video here, I’m thinking that perhaps I’m moving beyond my friends/acquaintances appreciations. Sigh. I really am not sure, but making art pieces that are different and a bit out of my own comfort zone bring me more pleasure than the same ol’, same ol.’
@amorlucisphotography do you have Instagram?
This was so timely for me Sean. I have been shooting for over 15 years. I was invited to participate in my first group photography show in an art gallery. The show comes down next week and I have sold nothing. One of the other photographers exhibiting work shoots and edits their work on their iPhone. They have sold multiple pieces, which leaves me scratching my head. I realize sales do not equate to quality or ability, but it is hard to ignore. I am proud of my work and feel my skill as a photographer has steadily grown. I shoot for myself, which is what I need to remind myself. Thanks again, Sean
What happened is that the people who came to the show weren't your ideal clients. THEY are out there, trust me!
Aww dang. I can totally understand that. It's still pretty awesome that you were featured in a show, though! I get jazzed when a friend uses one of my picture as a wallpaper for a while lol.
@@photobizmethodor they aren't and your work isn't as good as you think it is?
Out of curiousity what are your thoughts on the other photographers iphone photos? Were they simple and loud or complex and nuanced? Did you enjoy them? Were they of a different genre than your work?
Agreed with @bladerealm124 - I wouldn't discount a photographer purely because they used a phone. A lot of great photographers in history have used cameras with significantly lower quality sensors.
The more common trap is the opposite - people assume that a great camera will make their pictures great.
That, and the subject of this video, are both dangerous because some people will use it as an excuse to stop improving themselves.
As a photographer for over 40 years, now, I wholeheartedly agree with yours and Simon’s sentiments. Thanks for another fine collection of insights, Sean.
This is why I’ve started to move towards gallery walls and zine/books for my work now. Wonderful video, been having these feeling for a while.
As an economist (amateur photographer) I must say that the concept of “sales man” is precise. The elements and values that you describe are those that I learned in my university studies. Thank you so much for the video !
Love how you reframed thinking about social media attention there. As deep as always. Thank you from the heart for what you're doing Sean.
Great thoughts that reflect my experiences. I live near Hamburg, where it's easy to take those high-contrast black and white photos that are hyped on social media. The first pictures make me proud, but it quickly became boring. I took the "Dumbo Manhattan Bridge View" with my iPhone this year, it didn't take a minute and I got likes. On the other hand, it's a real challenge for me to capture the simple beauty of the salt marshes on the North Sea with their muted colours and minimalist structures, and my best pictures will hardly get any likes on social media.
Art needs no confirmation from others, it's the own soul that's tells us if it's meaningful or not.
Unless you want to eat and have a roof over your head.
@@cliveadams7629Not every artists want or need to sell their art. Indeed, most artists never do. Of those who do, frighteningly few are successful enough that they can pursue their art without compromising it to make it more likely to sell. It’s okay to sell out, just don’t pretend your art is meaningful anymore.
As a practical example, the wedding photographer who takes the same bland portraits every couple wants and expects. Are we supposed to believe that all wedding photographers are in some sort of hive mind and share the exact same taste? Of course not. They compromise their integrity to make a product the client wants. That’s not a criticism, I admire the skill it takes. But it’s no more art than the plumbing in my house, the wiring loom in my car or the detection of the Higgs boson.
@@PippetWhippet So you wouldn't count Dali as an artist? Fair enough.
Far and away one of the most thoughtful RUclipsrs speaking to creatives today. Excellent stuff, Sean-increasingly glad I found your channel amongst all the gear reviews and hype videos.
This entire video is wonderful, but the comparison of character vs personality is absolute gold. Thanks again Sean (and Simon) for more worthwhile philosophy for me to mull on.
This could be possibly one of your best videos or spoken subject. Not only about photography but I find it an amazing reflection about human nature or social behavior that I never reflected on it the way you now show. Also about how our personal growth can be linked or conditioned by what others think or what we do think others expect from us as value. Congratulations. This is pure photography talk but with a very powerful message about life in general.
Agreed! Seeing the Character vs. Personality development, is a clear indicator for how egoistic. The world has become, unfortunately.
I think there is also the third type of photographer that "likes" other's works. Ones, possibly like me, who have been a professional photographer for a long time (since 1976 for me) and appreciate the work of others, and to support those photographers visions. Yes, there is an over abundance of likes on images that are gratuitous that may have little skill or technique, but on social media there will always be those types. As a good friend of mine once said; "Sure, you can make a pretty image of a pretty person or location, but rarely do those 'photographers' make a compelling and emotionally captivating image". Thank you for sharing with us Sean, and thank you again for The Meaning of the Making books!
Sean Tucker, his work and colleagues have character.
Thanks for making this world that bit better Sean and co.
Thanks my friend.
This is a conversation I've been trying to have with other photographers for years. This was so well done, and reaffirming. Thank you for making this.
Be careful, just because an image is hard to make doesn't mean it's actually better!
This too. Way too many people overly complete an image, and at times it comes out bland/flat.
Just in time for my breakfast. Love a Sunday sermon from Friar Tuck!
Friar Tuck:)
This has to be the most impactful video I have watched and heard in such a long time. Everything the both of you said was true - I have grown a lot as a photogrpaher and I am also guilty of passing by photos I used to like when I was a beginner. I learned to just post what I like for me and for those who appreciate my work. I don't care about likes or engagement as much as I used to.
right! It's not the numbers it's the ideal people who YOU value
My wife and I watched this with our morning coffee. So timely and needed in our journeys! Thanks for doing what you do and for providing such great teaching. Cheers ☕️
I really appreciate that you’re able to consider your own work in such a clear-sighted way. It can be tricky to be objective when thinking about the merits of your own work and your practice. Always so much so think about in your videos, thank you.
So well articulated. Unfortunately, many people still perfectly equate likes with inherent worth; it is a powerful drug. Many will be happy to stay on that Merry-go-round forever. How many genuine talents will be lost to this diversion we will never know.
Sincere gratitude for just being you. I know you have helped me many times to “keep it real”.
This applies not only to social media. I usually get the most positive feedback from friends and family for the most basic techniques. For most people, a simple long exposure will do the trick. "How did you get the train to be transparent?! That looks so cool, you can see the platform behind it! That's real art!!"
Loved the video and the message. It reminded me of your conversation with Saddoris, where you mentioned the first drawing your mom put on the fridge, praising it, and how good it felt. The need for approval seems to stick with many of us for a while; shaking it off is the challenge.
Man you hit the point here up to today I was thinking of this
Don't please the machine and socials
please yourself and grow as an artist
Kudos sir I love these videos and interviews very inspiring and informative
A famous photographer in the sixties, his name escapes me now, said and it shocked me totally at the time, that he "couldnt understand why amateur photographers took photos".
I believe it was directed at the fact that we don't sell or exhibit but that has changed today, entering competitions I do know, I am the only one that cares about my images.
Sean - you were one of the first photographers I watched on RUclips a couple of years ago when I was starting to be more serious about my photography - it was a video on how to edit to make striking portraits. I've developed in a different direction now, more towards seascapes, landscapes and nature, but videos like this one cut across genres and can inform and inspire anyone. I really think you are the most thoughtful and thought provoking photographer on RUclips today. Thank you!
Great insight. I could care less about "likes" and "followers," but I do need to "market" because I shoot human models, so I need volunteers. And those volunteers, by and large, are people I'll only meet if I'm active on social media, getting enough like-juice to be seen, and capture their attention instantly when they scroll by. My more complex work rarely if ever gets posted. The models of course expect our shoot to mostly result in more of my (somewhat) soecial media friendly work from the past, with their own face swapped in, because they are *also* hoping to attract the attention of...you guessed it... beginner photographers and models who follow them. Can't just pay models to shoot what I want, wish I had that financial freedom, so I just have to give the people what they want, and spend a *little* of each shoot also doing more experimental work that hopefully, some day, will have a venue and an audience who can appreciate it.
This came at the right time for me, just when I think I’m sharing my best photos, the ones that show my growth as a photographer, the engagement has dropped off a cliff. I’m choosing to believe in myself, but there is that voice in the back of my head that says “what if you’re just not very good?”. This video is encouraging and helps to remind me to not worry about social media and to keep taking photos, and do that for me. If I’m good, and deserve recognition, I’ll get that eventually. In the meantime, I should just enjoy the process of learning and the thrill of being out there taking it all in.
I think this is a huge thing to be aware of with the Instagram space. People follow accounts because they like to see a consistent brand presented to them, not because they want to see the photographer’s individual growth. The skill needed to succeed there is less brilliance at photography and artistic skill as it is marketing and branding strategy.
Can i see your photos?
Yeah sure! @mr_lee_does_photography
@@alexlee3227 I'll check it out. Thanks.
Thank-you for pointing out this issue. I continue to shoot almost exclusively with film. I’ve been doing so for the last 40 years. And let’s be honest, the worst way to view any art form is on an electronic screen. My photography has surpassed what most of my friends understand. I’ve seen this happen with my other art form: ceramics. I look for nuance and delicate light or form. Most people don’t understand that type of artistic growth. Just look at the screen-saver on your computer. Hyper colors, unrealistic exposures and layered images. The digital “salesman” has lowered the artistic bar and convinced the average consumer of art that only brash and bombastic will work as art. Subtlety and character mean very little today. Please continue to address this issue with the available solutions: like visiting real art galleries on a regular basis or joining a local artists guild/association.
Lovely reminder. I care about my photography. Everyone else needs to show me. I actually have some pretty supportive experienced and talented photographers in my sphere, but the haters can get wild if they think I challenge their world view. Better to just do me. Thanks for this
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!! I've been thinking about this but was never able to verbalize it so eloquently even to myself. Shortened attention span and never ending stream of new "in-your-face" images to scroll through don't lend themselves to photos that require time and/or effort to appreciate.
Agree. I have never thought social media is the right place to be looking for affirmation or criticism of your work. As you rightly point out most of those commenting and liking are novices. They have never studied photography or art for that matter in a meaningful way. The best photographers are those who have a quiet confidence in what they do and will not be led by the crowd. This needs a bit of courage. Simon Baxter is a great example. I love his approach to woodland photography. If I was looking for affirmation of my photography, I would seek it from photographers I admire not Instagram.
I definitely agree with you and Simon. There are pictures that I post on socials and others that are for exhibitions. An image like the second one Simon shows would have no sense in a "double tap, scroll" context. To be able to set an audience when you decide to take a picture is extremely important. Thank you for sharing
One last thought on all this (provoked by yet another brilliant video by Sean) is that we can kid ourselves into thinking because we have no recognition that we can do great work for ourselves. That we are a unique snowflake that nobody has ever seen. That we are that tree that falls in the woods that nobody hears. Because my father was a well-known photographer, (and I see this as a gallery owner when asked for shows), growing up I got to meet and know many of the greats, ranging from Richard Avedon to Diane Arbus, Elliot Erwitt, Annie Leibovitz, Arnold Neuman, W. Eugene Smith, Slim Aarons, Irving Penn, and on and on. And one thing I observed in all of them - their most common shared trait besides raw talent - and why they all got noticed and on the map, (while having brilliant work of course) is that they were all, to a person, major hustlers, salesmen and self-promoters and marketers; and some indeed were true hucksters. None of them had small egos, and all took themselves deadly seriously. It should also be noted this was before photography became something available on millions and millions of phones. The cavalcade of brilliant images out there now rivals some of the best work I have seen. For me, when people ask me what a "real" photographer is these days, I come down to intent. Real photographers commit fully to the work, see it as the main thrust of their lives and pursue it day in and day out. It has nothing to do with being a "professional". They do want to show their work to communicate with the world through images. The rest of us? We take pictures and maybe that is enough. But when someone approaches me for a show, I look for someone with serious intent, not whether or not they are a hack wedding photographer or are a "professional". The difference between a "pro" and an "amateur" is irrelevant. For me intent and the ability of the photographer to show me one true thing is all I look for.
Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes, I lose sight of the key "beginner" factor you talk about here.
Great video. This reminds me of Fred Herzog, considered a pioneer of colour photography in the 1950’s and 60’s. It was very difficult to print colour photos back then, so he kept taking pictures of life in East Vancouver, and working as a medical photographer. His work was not really recognized until he was 77 years old, but it did not matter. He did not do it money of fame. He just kept up taking photos, pushing that rock up the hill.
@chrissteward
I lived in Vancouver Fred Herzog was immediately recognised by people who know photography just as Dostoevsky as soon as he wrote and published his work.
Fred Herzog did not show his work to the public work 20 years as soon as he did I don’t know a single person who did not like it
I find that social media images need to have an big immediate impact to the viewer, myself like Simon enjoying the woodlands creating images that some have low impact on these platforms But when these images are on a A3 paper of choice, then it holds the viewers eye of natural beauty.
Spot on and well put. It's easy to get side tracked when previous success is suddenly fading. You wonder what you are doing wrong while all you did is getting better. Many thanks for the encouraging pep talk.
As always Sean your videos remind me how I was originally drawn to becoming a photographer. It was finding those rare gems of photos that became more interesting the longer I looked at them and wanting to create gems of my own. We are bombarded with so many images these days, particularly on social media, that it can be challenging to slow down and find those pictures that say more than just the obvious.
Very true. Thank you! What we should remember here however is that people who are using Instagram and other platforms watch images on the small screen of their smartphones and we as photographers should know that rules of composition work differently for small picture size of the phone and big one like painting half the wall size. It's good to present the image in a way (size) that matches it's composition and character.
Also, many photographers ignore the greats of the past and fine art photography. Originality is key. A few months ago I saw a devastating exhibition of young girls with Down syndrome by Dorothy Lange. I've seen equally stunning shows by Francesca Woodman, Stieglitz, Crewdson, Struth, Cindy Sherman, Rodney Graham, Hiroshi Sugimoto, Marilyn Minter, Catherine Opie, Jeff Wall, Mapplethorpe, and perhaps my favorite, the photograms of Adam Fuss. There are many celebrated and great photographers alive today, perhaps the most in history. The likelihood of taking your camera, and clicking off a photo of a landscape or a person and expecting great photography is next to nothing. Great photographers must study art history.
_"Do something. Do something to it. Do something else to it."_ - Jasper Johns
Bravo Sean. Packaging over content, personality over character; simplicity over complexity. I scroll, sometimes I pause, but, when I find myself stopping to really look at and absorb an image, I often come away with more complex thoughts and feelings. I think I'm getting too old for eyecandy. I love your work. Thank you for sharing.
Love this. Great analogy with the quietness of character versus flashy personality. Another issue with 'getting the attention' you think a favorite image deserves is the tiny venue in which your work is shown on social media. The detail and complexity of great work is overlooked and invisible to the masses because of the tiny resolution offered for viewing. Subtleties are lost, as well as the opportunity to learn from those who have mastered their craft. We're turning into a society of half-second reviews and a double-click.
My opinion is that you're absolutely correct. It also applies to RUclips. I'd love to watch some advanced topic sometime, but it seems like everyone are doing the same "top 10" clickbaits over and over again. Getting watch hours and likes. This unfortunately also includes me. I target my videos mostly to beginners, because that's where the interest lies. When I cover a more advanced topic, I always seem to get less traction on those videos. Great thoughts, will take them with me in the future and think about my strategies and choises. Thanks S.
Really apreciate what you`ve said to be honest, as someone who's trying to find a certain style of photography to identify with, everytime I upload some photo I think it's at least interesting, I find out it gains very little atraction and as a consequence I ask myself "What am I doing wrong?" instead of just liking the very photo as is, it seems tho I am giving the power to the public in some way and adapting my style to what gains more likes and its a dangerous road to go through, thank you for making us aware of this perspective!
What I have found in my work is that I now need to work on projects, themed work that is considered and consistent in its style and theme!
Hi Sean,
I don't tend to comment much, though I've watched all your videos and bought your photography books. I just wanted to say your channel is my favorite on RUclips because of your depth and thought-provoking content. Thank you for what you make.
That's so kind. Thanks:)
My feelings exactly ‼️ 🇳🇿
I love Simon. His videos are so peaceful and packed with knowledge. He's a true artist.
Thank you for very eloquently stating something that has been at the back of my mind for the past few years.
the size of the picture you're looking at also plays a large role in how its digested. 1 photo might have to be printed to A0 to appreciate, while others are better viewed small and quickly, like on a phone or in a book.
I think we're at an interesting time in the history of photography because of A: there's a lot of different ways to appreciate a photo. and B: so many more people are improving their understanding of photos, how to read them, that it's pushing towards a global language.
the key is to understand the importance of sharing, how and why, moving into the future. photography isn't just an art for art snobs anymore
You and Simon are bang on. Those images that you posted of the sheep and the person in the wheelchair tell stories and most people on SM aren't interested, there only interested in the images that go bang , not that there is anything wrong with those , but your right less attention gets paid the story images I feel. I like to print t my work regularly and make dummie books , which I have a lot of and curate them as more images come in it feels very creative and that's how I started many decades ago. I tend to work on projects more now of an area could be street, landscape, more often from road trips so includes road houses etc . I love it. I post much less now and the stress relief is worth it
Easily the best photography channel on youtube. Stopping and thinking about what it is we do, and who we do it for, is important. How do we negotiate social media and its impact on our own work as photographers whether professional or amateur.
very true words, delivered in a peaceful and nuanced way. thank you and congratulations.
It was so helpful to hear Sean talk about newbies and where they get their feedback from. As someone who has only been taking photographs seriously for a year, it made me think about why I post online. What I think I look for, and I suspect is the same for others is, validation and encouragement, particularly if you have started this late in life as I have with little confidence. However posting on social media can be used as a learning opportunity. Whilst much of the "likes" I get may well be almost indiscriminate, after a year of posting I have come to acknowledge that those photographs that get more likes are usually my better ones ( and by better I don't mean good in any sense at this stage!). I have realised that I am now being far more thoughtful about the ones I share, and I think (hope) this indicates growth and self honesty. I hope this is a process many go through, and I hope that in another year I will post much less, and better quality. I think this is a sign of progress, increased confidence that many have achieved. I hope also by then to have a better sense of why I do this at a much deeper personal level- all I know right now is it gives me great joy and pleasure, has opened up a new world to me, and for now , that's enough.
Thanks Sean, your videos have always been so inspiring... You are able to pick up the thoughts of a photographer and talk about it .. Comforting..Thanks for your effort in making these videos ..May you grown leaps and bounds...🙏
This resonates with me so much, right now! Beautiful said by you and Simon.
I’ve recently started to understand why it is I take photos and the types of images I want to take. Sadly, this was previously dictated (more influenced) by the social media platforms based on the likes for particular images or styles. I now know my path, the likes are minimal or ‘slow burns’ but for me that now sits more comfortably as it feels vindicating because the work is for me and is representative of my maturing style. Thank you, Sean (and Simon).
I really need to hear this today. Thank you for your wise perspective on things, as always 💕
This is all quite encouraging. Thank you, Sean.
Great video and so true. Talking about growth of your photography, which I fully understand, makes me wonder how you measure that growth without resorting to the likes on IG, or judges comments in a competition which are so often driven by stereotypical reasoning. I know my photography constantly develops, I hope for the "better" and this usually means that the images say something, alone or in a project, rather than just being there to look at. What they say may vary from person to person, and hopefully is quite clear to most viewers without being elevated by the author to some level of pretention. Its all very personal and subjective, but maybe that is what "growth" is all about - thinking !!
For me growth is doing my own research, and looking at the work of some of the greats to see the heights photography can reach both in technique and meaning, and then comparing what I'm learning to my own work over time to see progress towards those lofty heights... but not 'social media scores'.
Thank you for this. I’ve been photographing since film in the 70s then into digital and about a year ago I put down my cameras. This video is exactly what I needed to pick them back up and go back to photography for myself like in the beginning. I left social media and deleted most of my presence and thought “no one cares” when it never should have mattered. I really really needed this. 🫶
That “character vs personality” breakdown was really insightful. Thanks Sean
Hi Sean. This one really hits home. I've been in a photographic rut lately. I love "street" photography but have found that when I go out and shoot, I'm all too often confronted with the same old shots that you see all over social media (and that I've taken plenty of times myself). Stealing a page (or thought) from your book, I feel as if I'm in that liminal space between shooting the same old shots and not yet finding a new direction. I know I'll eventually find my vision so I'm not worried. Just need some time to work through it. Interesting that you mentioned Susan Cain's Quiet. Just finished it and couldn't help but having felt similar thoughts to your observations.
This is so true, thank you for sharing this video. It really makes sense and reminded me to stay true to myself and my growth going forward.
Sean and Simon in one video on a dull Monday morning talking about something I find myself in the middle of... This is going to be a good week😃
Fascinating and thought-provoking discussion. I tend to share my 'more obvious' images and not my what I call my 'quiet' images. I liked Simon's thinking on this. Thank you.
interesting that you’re talking about your audience as being photographers. I’ve never really thought of photographers as being the people I want most to be looking at my images. It’s too tempting for us to make comparisons with our own work or become distracted by the how rather than the why to be an objective and fully appreciative audience.
Yep, for YEARS my audience wasn't photographers. I feel that's why photographers give up so fast or they end up teaching photography like I did later in my career. I WILL say I still license my work and I feel much happier than teaching how I shot my work :)
Dear Sean,
You have no idea how this video could have come at a better time. I really appreciate you posting this.
I've been a professional photographer for quite a while. Most of my work is never seen owing to the clients I deal with. As a result, I don't get the recognition or feedback of my work that I and my clients consider good. That does make me question if I'm any good or have lost my edge. I need to realize that I wouldn't be hired if it wasn't. I'm not trying to sell myself, instead showing evidence of this.
Your approach to psychological mentoring is one that goes so much deeper than so many videos found on RUclips. As a result, has a longer-lasting effect and carries more gratitude.
Thank you 🙂
This is a great conversation because it has been happening in my own work and I hadn’t noticed. You’re absolutely right that simple images attract (for lack of a better term) simple minds. I look forward to slowly shifting my work to reflect my true interests.
Very true and I can't agree more. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
That’s totally true thanks for sharing I’m experiencing this and I’m totally aware.
Very well put Sean! We must outgrow "the Internet", the crowd, as they are in great majority just amateurs.
Therefore, the older I grow, the more photo-books I buy.
Great video and interview with Simon!
I love your videos Sean. Your channel has been always my source of inspiration, along with Simon's and the other photographers I have found in this space. I am glad that I started watching your videos when I was just starting to do photography in my spare time. At first, it kind of hurt me when no one's liking my photos. Social media is a trap for us photographers. Yes, we would like to share our images but the system of likes and taps, not to mention the feed algorithms hurt our growth and appreciation in our own craft.
Eventually, I grew out of sharing my photos online. I only share a couple once every few months. I now realize that I should take my photographs with my heart and gut, as much as I would like. Photography is my private space to get lost in, recover and nourish my sense of self and creativity. I am doing photography for myself, not for others (makes sense for a hobbyist photographer like me).
On the other hand, it seems we share our work because we want to communicate something. Sometimes we need to speak the other person's language to get a point across. I can't speak German to a Chinese-speaking audience and expect them to get all my ideas. I have to learn the nuances of Chinese is I want that audience to "get" what I'm trying to say. As you suggested, maybe sometimes we can get caught up trying to communicate to the wrong audience. AmorLucisPhotography distinguished between why we make photographs vs why we share photographs. Many times I make a photograph because the act of capturing gives me pleasure and I print it because the continued viewing also gives me pleasure. Sometimes I tweak a print or digital image in ways that might make my idea a little more clear to my target audience. That concept of character vs personality struck home. Character could be likened to sharing because I want you to understand what I'm trying to say. Personality could be likened to sharing because I want you to like me.
Last thought: Federico Fellini said something to the effect of "There is something about the creative mind that feels compelled to narrate the world to other people."
It is so true, it applies to any art form, do you see often jazz in the top chart? It is typically pop. But the jazz players enjoy a different stage… they don’t expect the platinum disk, not because they do not deserve, simply a different audience
First time visiting your channel, basically due to having Simon Baxter in the title. I am not on any social media platform because I don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of my photography. I shoot for myself. Even when I was working as a paid (i.e. "professional) photographer, I didn't care or worry what my clients thought of my work. They hired me based on my portfolio and that is what they got for their money. Besides, most people wouldn't know a good photo anyway. They assumed my work was good (it was) because that was my job. More to the point. I think what you have described here is the quintissential discription of the human condition in the 21st century - popularity over substanstance, character, and integrity. While your essay revolves around photography, I find it perfectly descibes the state of the world today. Give the people what they want; any new gadget that is different from the last new gadget that came out last week or last year; or tell them what they want to hear, even if it is a complete lie or total fiction. That is how you succeed today. Sad.
Thank you Sean! They information you share and the way you share it is simply amazing. Thank you for the inspiration and your honest wisdom. You make us all better by what you do.
Oomph Sean, I felt tears coming up. I find huge comfort in this framing. Thank you.
That's great to hear.
One of your best videos! I’m going through that transition now and trying to figure out how to get out of my high intensity (dawns, sunsets) comfort space and into more subtle and challenging work.
Food for thought, thank you for your fresh perspective! I look forward to following your channel.
Great interaction Sean and you nailed this problem many of us photographers are facing and faced . But for me I summed it up as simply as this “ I creat my own work for myself… to satisfy myself .. that is what motivates me not the “Likes “ or the comments ! Yes its a great feeling to see the amount of likes and read the comments . But it’s not important enough to get any inspiration from them to continue your own journey and to grow in the direction you feel you must head off in . Social media like Facebook only delivers your posts to a set audience and if you don’t pay them to “ boost “ your posts then they simply restrict the content to a very small percentage of those who are following you . I used to pay to boost the posts I uploaded .. then as soon as I stopped paying to boost on Facebook then I noticed the likes and comments fell away fast . I refuse to pay social media to spread my photography page and my work . My work speaks for itself , and I am happy with my work because I photograph for myself to please myself at the end of the day , while you out taking a landscape photo or a wildlife photo the first thing that enters your mind is does this image please you , the last thing you think of personally is will this image please those on social media . Thank you for your input and channel Sean ! 🙏🏻
I like seeing that you’re posting about once a month. I think you’re an important voice in the world of photography. At least, in my world of photography. And to me, that’s what matters. Thank you Sean, for the time you take to create something that is, in its own right, a piece of art.
Thank you for this video. I am definitely on a growing path as a photographer. I love the idea of building character and deeper connection to my work. 🙌😍
I think the falloff in social-media engagement is as much a signal of a sort of saturation of that style of engagement in our lives as anything. There are many more venues, and many more people who are skilled at working within those venues.
I've watched engagement fall by a factor of three or more on essentially-equivalent work. It's not because the work is any different, but because the environment has changed. Each 'like' means a little more these days and when someone whose work I respect engages with the work, well, that's even better.
It is true that we'll see less initial engagement as we try something new -- that's okay, too. The key in the long-term is to bring together something of what worked for us in the past and our new ideas from today in order to say what needs saying now.
When Simon says that the spooky-tree image was easy to put together, it was only easy because he's real good at it. I frequently find that the images that are the most meaningful don't turn out to be difficult photographically, but rather that a well-executed image of a story that needs telling is all that's necessary.
This makes so much sense! And I needed to hear this today! Thank you! Also, extremely interesting to hear the reflection about character vs personality and the switch from responsible mature adult to salesmen in crowded cities.
Will certainly keep this video in mind. The growth is so important and is quite unstoppable, no matter the feedback from social media. And that's the way it should be.
Very thought provoking and I am sure there is some validity in what you are saying. I definitely agree that social media encourages certain formulaic work and offers a easy success route. There is nothing wrong with a simple and powerful image, Michael Kenna has been doing this for years. I think the key is about being original and that is the problem with social media, it too easy to copy and social media promotes it whether it be beginners or just people with less cultural capital. I personally believe the true artistic is the person who breaks the mould and does something different
Sean, I really appreciate your insight, its so refreshing and well thought. Please keep doing this, at your own pace, but keep doing. Thank you
Thank you so much for this, you and Simon have put in words some feelings and thoughts I am having since a few months about my work and social media and greatly helped to put some order in this madness! 😁
Bravo. Totally nailed a number of important points here. Your content has character! Nice to see something of quality with intellect.
Hi Sean,
This resonate so well. I’m not saying I’m a great photographer, but ever since I started presenting my work in Galleries I’ve become more and more aware of what you’re saying. Many of the comments here addresses this so I wont ramble on about the same, but I would like to grasp on to what you are saying about personality vs character. You see, as much as I love photography, I can’t live of what I sell. At least not in Norway were the cost of living is extremely high. So I haven’t left my day job as a renowned leadership advisor. And here is my point and why I was so inspired by your speech. Because you don’t really talk about photography do you? I mean, you talk about life and values in life. You talk about who we choose as our guides in our life. For me your talk is very much about leadership. In our quick fix world were we always seek the fastest way to success, and in a way it works, but, and there is a big but here. It does not stick. We are all infected by the dream of 15 minuets of fame. Applied to leadership I see that leaders that can come in and do a quick fix is often preferred over leaders that build culture stone by stone. Leaders that create a culture were workers can grow over time in organisations that deliver over time. In fact you inspired me to make a new leadership seminar to talk about the important of a long term commitment from owners and leaders. So thank you for sharing, and taking time to stop to reflect upon what makes great art, or at least what makes for a great image. Yes the audience is smaller but the loyalty is stronger and in the end loyalty and character takes you longer than the rush of dopamine given by a “like” thrown at you in a “empty” scrolling session.
The message in this video is very thought provoking. Thank you very much because I think I needed to hear all of this right now!
I never really thought about it this way before but it does make a lot of sense. I ended up deleting most of my social media because I felt like nobody liked my work anymore and it was tough to swallow the amount of effort I put into a photograph to get little attention but perhaps like you say it might be because I reached a new level in photography where my work no longer appeals to beginner photographers on social media. Hmmm, this is pretty interesting. Looking back at my work and I can tell that my work is has changed from more louder images to more nuance and "boring" photos but I enjoy them so much more. Great video Sean. Hope you're doing well.
Quiet - great book! Enjoy. Hopefully you will get a lot out of it Sean. Thanks, as ever, for your video.
Learning to not just post consistently to please the algorithm and post pieces that are not meant for that kind of social media and audience, but holding back for when you might have the right space to share that type of work is extremely important.
An absolutely necessary conversation to be had - something worth thinking on.
Excellent commentary and insight in life and in art and how they intersect. Well done Sean. I see why you have over half a million subscribers. Well done indeed. Character over flash. Build depth in your life and in your art. I'm a subscriber now and really look forward to more of your intersection moments.
As always, a super interesting thought that leaves you thinking about our journey. Merci beaucoup!
This was a great thought. Thanks for sharing it so articulately for us!
You never disappoint, I saw this video’s thumbnail days ago but was in a busy time. Preferred to save it to when I could actually immerse in it, and it made my weekend!
Thanks for making this video and the message contained in it. The ending statements really brought home the feeling that I think a lot of us longer term photographers are starting to feel. Great to see Simon also embracing this idea of context in how he approaches taking and sharing his work.