I believe that it is the percentage of tin in the alloy that is responsible for the diifferent colours. The higher the tin content, the darker the colour. Tin lowers the melting point but also makes the alloy harder. Pre-1860 copper coins without the tin seem to be predominately the 'milk chocolate' colour. And I think KN coins always seem to turn up in a much more worn condition than the H coins, also suggesting a higher copper/lower tin content that the Heaton ones making them softer and more susceptible to wear.
Thanks for this CP. I’ve often been fascinated by the range of colours/shades when watching your old penny hunt videos (in fact I think I commented on this very subject on one of them).
Merry Christmas to the Coin Patrol household. I think you're on the right lines in saying the colouring is due to the mix of metals I know some farthings were artificially darkened (Edward VII and early George V and (could be wrong here)I have an inkling that some pennies were as well
The first "light" bronze mix was early on in 1905, so you see a mostly 50/50 tan split from 1906, then most 1907 to 1915 are a majority light mix (less tin, perhaps 4%), then see more darker ones from 1916 onwards to 1920 (more tin, 5% I think), then they go light again.
"Who is Number 1?" 😁 I've visited Portmeirion, but luckily there were no Rover balloons about! 😂. Some notable ghosting on quite a few of those pennies 🙂
I went to Portmeirion a few years ago. Spent about 9 hours there and it wasn't long enough! Must go again. I didn't see Rover either, but I did meet the new number 2. 🎈
Catalogs (e.g. Krause) say some were intentionally “darkened” (using a light acid). I was told it was to discouraging “hoarding” of new coinage, but I haven’t been able to verify that.
Hi Jim, I know they darkened the early Victorian farthings so they wouldn't get mistaken for a half Sovereigns which was the same size. I didn't know they darkened pennies. 👍
@@CoinPatrolYes, I heard the same thing about the farthings (I have an example in my collection). I could be wrong, but I think I saw some “darkening” of early South African farthings as well. However it could be attributable to alloy differences at the different mints, as the (excellent) presentation hypothesizes. Metal analysis might shed some light (pun intended) on the situation.
I notice pennies on some dates 1944 & 1945 have tarnished badly similar to the decimal coppers during 1970's, this could be a lack or no tin ingredient, perhaps by adding tin 4% or a little more the coins become a little denser resulting in a better quality copper coin, longer lasting, wearing & tarnishing less over time.
Just wondering,, if you know about the 1953 penny, both sides of the coin, have different beading around edge of coin, I read it in newspapers about 5 years ago. Enjoy your vids cheers
It’s the first coin I ever found I was like 6 and it was in Astoria ny I dig a hole it was 1899 since then I have acquired a lot of these I used to know stuff about them like where they were circulated and who was on it all I recall is the crispy ones were worth more and if they were worn out not much made in different places and different colors like copper and mint marks you know much more than I do on this one 😅
An older collector friend told me that certain years of British pennies and half pennies were artificially darkened. I always assumed it was the almost black color in the fields.
Very interesting! I wonder if there's ever been scientific research on these to determine where the planchets were made. I think many older coins have slightly different compositions, like the old USA Morgan silver dollars that often aren't exactly 90% silver and 10% copper.
I know they artificially darkened the farthing blank's form 1897 to 1915, the process exposed the blanks to Sodium Thiosulphate and used to avoid a bright farthing being passed as a half sovereign. in 1915 the gold standard was dropped and in 1918 no half sovereign were struck. UK farthings reverted to a bright finish. However the gold standard in South Africa continued for some time further and darkened farthings continued to be issued there. I have a 1/3rd farthing issued for use in Malta, which has clearly been darkened (not just a different tin level) but I have no idea why, if any of your viewers do?
I had to laugh about the circulation theory. I remember when Birmingham WAS the colour of the old 'black' pennies, but since the ceasing fossil fuel use and the decline in the industry many of these old buildings have had a good facelift and are clean; although there are a few uncleaned oldies left. As for taste Paul, a still recall the taste of the old 'coppers ' as we referred to them, as most kids at one time gave them as a lick. My sister for one came out with a red rash around her lips after sucking on an old penny. Thanks for the presentation Paul it was very interesting.
Dear Paul, what about toned penny coins. You must have seen them by searching thousends of pennys. Can you do a video about this topic? I am buying alot of kilo's worldcoins for seaching for toned coins. About 200 toned englisch coins are now in my collection. Greetings from netherlands.
I believe that it is the percentage of tin in the alloy that is responsible for the diifferent colours. The higher the tin content, the darker the colour. Tin lowers the melting point but also makes the alloy harder. Pre-1860 copper coins without the tin seem to be predominately the 'milk chocolate' colour. And I think KN coins always seem to turn up in a much more worn condition than the H coins, also suggesting a higher copper/lower tin content that the Heaton ones making them softer and more susceptible to wear.
very informative, thanks for taking the hit on the taste test
Thanks for this CP. I’ve often been fascinated by the range of colours/shades when watching your old penny hunt videos (in fact I think I commented on this very subject on one of them).
Your theory seems to hold true, fascinating 🧐 🤔💭
Great stuff 👍🏻
Very Interesting Paul Thanks for sharing Paul. Have a Great Christmas 🎄 👍
Merry Christmas to the Coin Patrol household. I think you're on the right lines in saying the colouring is due to the mix of metals
I know some farthings were artificially darkened (Edward VII and early George V and (could be wrong here)I have an inkling that some pennies were as well
Another interesting video of yours. Thank you for sharing. :-)
The first "light" bronze mix was early on in 1905, so you see a mostly 50/50 tan split from 1906, then most 1907 to 1915 are a majority light mix (less tin, perhaps 4%), then see more darker ones from 1916 onwards to 1920 (more tin, 5% I think), then they go light again.
Very nice video again Paul. This explains a lot. I personally prefer the Heaton dark coloured types. Have a happy Christmas Buddy !!
Cheers Keith, Happy Christmas to you too 🎄☃👍
"Who is Number 1?" 😁 I've visited Portmeirion, but luckily there were no Rover balloons about! 😂. Some notable ghosting on quite a few of those pennies 🙂
I went to Portmeirion a few years ago. Spent about 9 hours there and it wasn't long enough! Must go again. I didn't see Rover either, but I did meet the new number 2. 🎈
Catalogs (e.g. Krause) say some were intentionally “darkened” (using a light acid). I was told it was to discouraging “hoarding” of new coinage, but I haven’t been able to verify that.
Hi Jim, I know they darkened the early Victorian farthings so they wouldn't get mistaken for a half Sovereigns which was the same size. I didn't know they darkened pennies. 👍
@@CoinPatrolYes, I heard the same thing about the farthings (I have an example in my collection). I could be wrong, but I think I saw some “darkening” of early South African farthings as well. However it could be attributable to alloy differences at the different mints, as the (excellent) presentation hypothesizes. Metal analysis might shed some light (pun intended) on the situation.
Sorry not a metallurgist but a fascinating topic especially over Christmas dinner or a pint. Happy Christmas in the Coin Patrol household. 👍👌
Hi Paul, excellent video Happy New Year to you and your family 👍.
Cheers Ian, Happy New Year to you and yours too 🥳🎉
I notice pennies on some dates 1944 & 1945 have tarnished badly similar to the decimal coppers during 1970's, this could be a lack or no tin ingredient, perhaps by adding tin 4% or a little more the coins become a little denser resulting in a better quality copper coin, longer lasting, wearing & tarnishing less over time.
Just wondering,, if you know about the 1953 penny, both sides of the coin, have different beading around edge of coin, I read it in newspapers about 5 years ago. Enjoy your vids cheers
Very interesting Paul
Interesting again! Just thought it was muck? 👍👍👍
Metal
Guru happy Xmas CP
It’s the first coin I ever found I was like 6 and it was in Astoria ny I dig a hole it was 1899 since then I have acquired a lot of these I used to know stuff about them like where they were circulated and who was on it all I recall is the crispy ones were worth more and if they were worn out not much made in different places and different colors like copper and mint marks you know much more than I do on this one 😅
An older collector friend told me that certain years of British pennies and half pennies were artificially darkened. I always assumed it was the almost black color in the fields.
Neat info vid I always thought it was metallic make up, some coins don't look heavily circ but have dark toning
Interesting - so how about some history on those Birmingham factories pse? 🤶🍀💜
Very interesting! I wonder if there's ever been scientific research on these to determine where the planchets were made. I think many older coins have slightly different compositions, like the old USA Morgan silver dollars that often aren't exactly 90% silver and 10% copper.
Excellent vlog
I know they artificially darkened the farthing blank's form 1897 to 1915, the process exposed the blanks to Sodium Thiosulphate and used to avoid a bright farthing being passed as a half sovereign. in 1915 the gold standard was dropped and in 1918 no half sovereign were struck. UK farthings reverted to a bright finish. However the gold standard in South Africa continued for some time further and darkened farthings continued to be issued there.
I have a 1/3rd farthing issued for use in Malta, which has clearly been darkened (not just a different tin level) but I have no idea why, if any of your viewers do?
Marry Christmas and Happy new year.
I have a 1917 which look lighter, but might have been polished.
Can you do a video about maundy Money please?
I had to laugh about the circulation theory. I remember when Birmingham WAS the colour of the old 'black' pennies, but since the ceasing fossil fuel use and the decline in the industry many of these old buildings have had a good facelift and are clean; although there are a few uncleaned oldies left. As for taste Paul, a still recall the taste of the old 'coppers ' as we referred to them, as most kids at one time gave them as a lick. My sister for one came out with a red rash around her lips after sucking on an old penny. Thanks for the presentation Paul it was very interesting.
I guess these color differences also apply to hay pennies?
I love these pennies.
Its a shame our decimal coins are just copper clad steel
Dear Paul, what about toned penny coins. You must have seen them by searching thousends of pennys. Can you do a video about this topic? I am buying alot of kilo's worldcoins for seaching for toned coins. About 200 toned englisch coins are now in my collection. Greetings from netherlands.
Interesting. Thank you for showing us.
Merry Christmas to the Coin Patrol household, I trust you will be cooking the Xmas dinner whilst Sue is spoilt rotten😀
Merry Christmas Ian. Yes I will be sitting with my feet up while Paul cooks the dinner. He makes the best roast potatoes in the World. 🎄
Merry Christmas Ian, and yes, I do make fantastic roast potatoes 👍🥔
Is it just me or does anyone else think that they would look nice shined up 🤔
aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh 😨
@@CoinPatrol 😂
Why the coin another one is light and the other is dark? May be one coin is new and the other one is old coin.
I have 6 coins One Penny : Georgivs V Dei Gra : Britt:Omn:Rex Fid:Def:Ind:Imp, 1.1911 ( 1 coin, bronze light and some dark ), 2. 1916 ( 1 coin bronze ), 3. 1919 ( 1 coin bronze ), 4. 1928 ( 1 coin bronze ), 5. 1965 Regina.F:D:+Elizabeth.II.DEI.Gratia. ( 1 coin bronze ), 6. 1967 Regina.F:D:+Elizabeth.II.DEI.Gratia.
( 1 coin bronze), Thanks
To have a half penny like them
1917 year
Hi i have circulation pennies from 1903,1907 ,1911 and 1912 any buyer.