I’m not the expert but you could get a lot lower with a flat back if the pad was even lower than in the video. That stretch at full ROM has really gotten rid of my low back pain.
you're right but then it's not about strengthening the back isometrically, you're then talking about stretching the back which is absolutely a function of the roman chair but not the direct topic of his statement in this video! :)
You can use this machine to focus on glutes and hamstrings or back extensors. If you're focused on the latter, keep the load light and hit high reps, 15-25. Don't let someone tell you that you're wrong for hitting your extensors with this. It's just a different focus.
To make it more low back focused, more through the spine vs the hip. I would recommend working with a fitness professional who can help you perform this correctly. I would also assess why you would want to include this in your program. People want to incorporate this if they have lower back pain but you should get a proper assessment first to identify if this exercise even makes sense for you. Hope that helps!
@@gfhrtg54I swear I thought the form they just showed in the video WAS for lower back but now they are saying it’s for glutes and hamstrings. I thought the glutes had to flex and stretch to get work done.
WE CAN ACTIVATE GLUTES BY CONTRACTING IT, FLEXING AND RELEASE LIKE ANY OTHER BODY PART. WE NEED TO LEARN TO POSITION IT IN THE RIGHT ANGLE AND TIME AND USE WHAT MANY PEOPLE CALL NERVE (BRAIN) CONNECTION. IT TAKES FOCUS AND CONCENTRATION.TRY IT FOR ALL MUSCLES YOU ARE WILLING TO TRAIN.THAT IS WHEN WE GET RESULTS AND OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT. @@rexibhazoboa7097
@@rexibhazoboa7097 The glutes are working hard here. They thrust your hips forward. This exercise keeps the hips static as everything else moves back, which mechanically is the same thing as the hips moving forward relative to everything else.
This video seems to run head-on into other videos focusing on how constantly avoiding spine flexion results in greater back problems. TBH I intentionally use this (and the reverse hyper) to put light loads on the lower back to take the spine through a ROM and it's really helped me be in less pain.
This guy is pretty legit though. He trains Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters! But I guess it's not like there is one absolute truth. Some think one style is better, others think another is better. Just do what suits you.
@@hssy2jrocker Honestly I think the truth is still out on loading through spinal flexion. For now I just do both, a lot of training for stability in the hips and some light loading through flexion, mostly banded to make it less severe in full extension. But I think both sides have decent arguments and evidence supporting them.
He specified that rounding *under load* was the issue. Practicing flexion is always good to maintain mobility, just not under a heavy load - whatever that is for you.
Definitely place it below my pelvis. I do full rom on this with no to low load. Helps me with a lot of my posterior chain. Helped me overcome cramps too.
I want to train my lower back to be strong eccentrically and concentrically no just isometrically. I started doing back extension going through actual full lumbar flexion and extension. After 3 months of slowly increasing the weight from 10lbs to 35lbs, My back pain I've had for over over 2 years is gone. I used to be only able to sit for 30mins in horrible pain. I can now sit for an unlimited amount of time and can bend forward all the way through full lumbar flexion without pain. I've also been to 3 different PTs through this time and only 1 suggested to perform full range back extensions. I am forever grateful
@@sonidoo5908 I don't know. I never got an MRI to confirm, but my x-ray showed decreased disc height at L5-S1. Not sure if I just sprained it or worse. My signs and symptoms were consisted with a disc injury though. The first week after my injury, ANY position except supine felt like someone was stabbing a hot iron through my back
@Adrian Bolton sounds like you definitely had a herniated disc wich is what I have. I'm doing KOT program and just bought a back extension. After months of no work I really hope this is what gets me out of the gutter
@@Immortalsoul669 Yeah I was going through PT school when it happened. Just didn't want to self diagnose, but pretty sure I did. Good news is today my back is pain free all because of the back extension machine. Hope you have a quick recovery.
I agree that to overload the compressed formof the spinal erectors you should do like youninstruct. But there is place for rounding the back to strength the muscle in a stretch form, all with the respective intensity, volume and resistance.
I recommend doing these roman chair exercises after almost any intensive athletic activity. It's gotten to the point that I do this exercise at the end of all my weight or running workouts. My lower back is the core of every athletic activity I do. When I do this lower back decompression / stretching to wrap up my activities my overall body feels better and my back says "thank you". I've left my chronic back pain from years past behind. And depending on how far I flex my torso, I even get a hamstring stretch. I now knell to the alter of the roman chair. 😅
This exercise helped my lower back pain a lot and I was told by my orthopedic doctor that it is ok to do but if you have disc problems do not add weight.
There are some fitness RUclipsrs (Ryan Humiston comes to mind) who advocate for doing these with back flexion specifically to build more lower back muscle (in a bodybuilding context). If someone is able to do this under load without pain, is it still safe to do this with back flexion?
I had a lower back injury and started training on this machine regularly but I would round my back to stretch and strengthen it. I found that never rounding the back is what keeps the lower back weak. It’s a natural movement that the human was designed to do.
Thanks for the advice on positioning of the pad. But not sure about “grab with the toes” - ain’t no gym that wants you to use their equipment barefoot lol.
I use this exercise to intentionally train my spinal erectors, not my glutes, so i DO intentionally round my back (obviously going with lower weight + higher reps). I feel like it helped out my deadlifting
I've worked as a personal trainer for nearly 20 years and I disagree with the message that this video is delivering. The two main exercises to perform using a Roman Chair apparatus are Back Extensions and Hip Extensions. While Hip Extensions are appropriate for conditioning the core and pelvic muscles isometrically in preparation for certain compound exercises like deadlifts and squats, both exercises are correct. They simply require different mechanical movement patterns depending on what you're aiming to achieve from each one. As the video suggests, the purpose of Hip Extensions is to lock the lumbar vertebra so that the trunk extensors are functioning isometrically as fixator muscles, supporting the trunk while the glutes and hamstrings are functioning to extend the hips. This is correct, but so to are Back Extensions, just for a different reason. Skeletal muscles are designed to contract isometrically and isotonically. If you only perform isometric exercises for a muscle, it will only strengthen isometrically. Therefore, you will not be strengthening the muscle throughout its whole range of motion. The vertebra is designed to flex, extend, laterally flex and rotate. A Back Extension on a Roman Chair enables you to extend from a flexed position, strengthening the erector spinae, multifidus and quadratus lumborum muscles through a full range of motion. To state that this exercise is not beneficial is misleading to your viewers and there's nothing wrong with including both variations in exercise routines some of the time, as they both require movement patterns that function with the mechanics of the MSK system rather than conflicting with them.
Bret Contreras (among others) recommends using a slightly rounded back to target the glutes more. This is the first time I'm hearing that this may increase the risk of injury under load. Hmm...
While it's true that for a hip extension this lumbar movement is not good, back extensions are actually a decent exercise for accessory work on the spinal erectors. However, it is a bit better to have a lower angle when performing back extensions, so performing the exercise on a GHD in order to place tension rather than compression on the discs is preferable.
I have fairly good hip mobility so I like to have the padding even further down. That way I can have a straight back while going lower and get the full range of motion of the glutes and hamstrings. Closer to the animation at 1:30 rather than staying parallell to the ground
Walk backwards uphill on a treadmill for 5 minutes every time you work out. It's excellent for your knees and helps train your legs to provide a better foundation, which takes some pressure off your back.
Nice video! I love this exercise at least once a week, but I am able to flex forward more, with proper form, still working mid-low back. But yes, this exercise is done incorrectly by most. I see many use way too much weight. Thank you!
Please clarify that this is a low load situation, and that you can also train the erectors with spinal flexion in this 45° hyperextension machine. There are too many videos prescribing either or when it comes to spinal flexion, and it just creates more confusion.
Problems stem from the fact that the movement is incorrectly named by the gym bros. Rounding and then straightening your spine is back flexion/extension. Elevating the torso without rounding is hip extension. Keeping the lower back in one place while raising the upper back is a hyperextension.
yeah no.. the reason why you should use that is because you can strengthen your erectors under tension instead of compression like the back would be if it rounds while standing.. I have degenerative disk disease and a few herniated disks.. doing this with a slight round going all the way down and only raising my body to horizontal is what has strengthened my back to the point of not having much pain..
sorry just wanted to state i get these to variations have different goals completely but I dont want people to think rounding their back is all together a back thing because its honestly a necessity if you want your back to stay healthy and strong
I heard/saw that in order to put more emphasis on the glutes you should flex your back on the way up and down. And here you say we shouldn't do that with our spine. Can you explain me a little more please? 😊
I've used this to help strengthen my posterior chain. I do as described with 10kg weight. Also, without weight, I flex upper back, (a bit like cat/camel). I've read most of the comments (611), and didn't see any mention of Paul Chek. So just adding him to the mix and his video "The Reverse Hyperextension Exercise". Keep strong everyone.
Back flexion under a heavy load like a deadlift sounds dangerous, but wouldn't back flexion with a light load in this case help to develop the stress tolerance level?
It's basically a good morning vs a Jefferson curl. Both have applications, but you need to really know what you're doing to maximize the benefit and minimize the risk of either, especially the latter (i.e., Jefferson curl).
i learnt from so many other people and videos over the year to flex the spine at the bottom (round the back) and extend on the way up(chest high and spine straightened) to get the erector muscles now i'm being told no only isometrically is the way. God i am so confused
Hey mate, as always, thanks for the quality content. Question: How does one increase the strength and size/thickness of the spinal erectors? I would like to increase strength and muscle tissue in and around the trunk in preparation for rugby. I hope you see this and thanks if you do answer.
This is awesome. Thanks for clarifying this! It can easily be confused with glute-focused exercises on this which round the back, which isn't the safest idea for hip extensions long term
So, there are some fitfluencers who claim if you round your back and grab some weight in front of your chest this exercise will hit your glutes (more) rather than your back. Like, change the technique for changing the engaged muscles - same goes with the adductors machine. What do you guys think about that? I mean, I personally do hip thrust and Bulgarien split squats to hit my glutes. I’m just curious if changing technique on certain exercises makes any sense.
I've begun doing those for my herniated disc as a rehab and it seems to not hurt and actually feel good afterwards! Can only recommend these for people who struggles with lower back pain! Of course, done right!
This is kind of contrary to what Brett Contreras (glute guy), says to do. He says to deliberately curve your upper back to turn off your spinal erectors to focus more on your glutes. Assuming the way you're coaching this is to train the hip extensors and low back. Thoughts/comments?
In both case you want to follow the starting position explained in this video with the pelvis in front of the pads. So make sure that it is adjusted low enough to rest mainly on the top of your quads. Then you can either do reps with a straight back which will work the back muscles + the glutes, or you can do what is known as a rounded back extension. To do the later, the only difference is to round the back in the bottom position and keeping it that way as you go back up. The rounded back will elongate the back muscles which will reduce their contribution and transfer more work to your glutes. Hope this helps. Edit : for the rounded back extension, it should come more naturally to round the upper back, which is what we'd want in order to avoid disc compression in the lower back.
Fucked my back doing this exercise about 2 weeks ago 😅 i wondered how it happened using bodyweight but now i realise the forces at play doing it wrong 😅
Isometric spine strength is great but flexion under load is not “wrong.” They’re different progressions of training the erector spinae. Health 2.0 versus health 3.0. IMO
Great video! But one question, if you load it "properly" (for back extensors) and do the movement, for the back extensors, is that bad? Isn't that just a great exercise for the back extensors?? To work them not only isometric like they do in so many other exercises, but to work them dynamically as well?? I've learned a lot from this channel, keep it up!!!👍
If a rehab program consists of a set of core exercises, does doing painful activities during this period reverse the core stability gained by the rehab exercises?
Yes it can. That’s why it’s key to uncover what movements/exercise trigger pain in the short term so that you can eliminate/modify them to allow the body to desensitize symptoms.
@@SquatUniversity I can't thank you enough for all the information you are putting out! I am fascinated by your approach to diagnosis and rehab. I learn a LOT from you. I hope some day I get some free time and adequate budget to come down from Ontario so you do a complete checkup on my broken body.
A lot of the "booty" themed back extension instructionals have the upper back rounded to hit the glutes more. I've always went with the single leg back extensions on the GHD, mainly for knee comfort, but also to avoid having to use weights due to the 45 degree being way to easy. For whatever reason, my knees never liked the 45 degree angle machines.
Hey! Thanks for this video! One question I have because you said „Spinal flexion under load“ may increase risk of injury. Why would we do jefferson curl than? (And is it unsafe to stay in the jeff curl lowest postition and sway the KB slowly side to side to stretch the back muscles? Thanks for answering🎉
@@kikibah2001 If you have a round back, don't you have to worry about your spinal discs? I like to do it like that myself, without weight, and over the next two days I notice muscles that I didn't even know existed, but many people also say that I just have to do it with a straight back. Greetings from germany.
@@lahoya32 holding the position in hyper reverse position i akso had this sensation of new muscle along the spine popping up, then you get acclimated pretty quick to hold it for time. The spine is designed to move and bend but not with maximal load, just as dead lifts the spine must remain stable and reducing the range of motion is optimal. Back extension, good morning, hyper reverse are all great exercises to strengthen the posterior chain and lower back. Jefferson curl and rounded back extension without weight or light one are good for decompression, mobility. Overall a strong back is a straight back.
I believe this is the first time I don't agree with you at all, save for the part of the pad placement. The Spine can easily handle flexion under load, so I use this exercise ESPECIALLY for for that purpose and try to get as much movement, from round to hollow, in my back. It's not like you can load the exercise with your deadlift weights. Obviously, this is not true for people with eg bulging discs or other acute injuries. But it's perfect for preventing those, since you get to move and therefore provide nutrition to your discs and strengthen the ligaments in your back.
I did 3 sets of 20 of this exercise just now and I'm laying on the floor with my legs stretched up in the hopes of my lower back working again. I share the same sentiment as you lol
this exercise can be done for either lower back with small loads and high reps or for Glutes/Hamstrings with higher loads. I've always had lower back pain, doing this exercise fixed my back and i can now sleep however i want, even if the matress is really soft.
@SquatUniversity Probably too late to comment on this video, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on Reverse Hyperextensions and how much benefit they have for lower back and core strength? I've never seen you do a video in regard to this specific movement. Just curious!
I feel like I'm able to get much lower than what's demonstrated in the video without rounding my spine at all--basically to about 90 degrees. Is that possible with flexible-enough hamstrings, for instance?
What do you think about doing them Brett Contreras style with chin tucked, rounded thoracic spine feet turned out neutral lumbar spine to target the glutes vs low back??
I see so many people trying to load lumbar through flexion and attempt to fix back pain with twisting stretches instead of training spine stability and hip mobility.
I like to use this piece of equipment as a stretch device. Lower pad, then bend at waist keeping back straight to stretch lower back, glutes and hams, simply by hanging.
The ATG Program by Ben Patrick encourages full range all the way to the bottom on back extensions (with a back that rounds), so I'm wondering if there's a way to justify what he's showing compared to what you guys are encouraging.
It's almost as if Ben Patrick's form with back extensions is mimicking the Jefferson Curl. Is there a difference compared to what you guys are showing?
@@reinaldogomes8666 never said I would I could keep a perfectly flat back going really low depending on the where the pads are touching my legs for stability
ok, so save back flexion for low load situations: would it be beneficial to train back flexion in low load situations? IE with no weight, do back extension with intentional back flexion? I'm thinking of adding this in with my flat back loaded extensions
I’m not the expert but you could get a lot lower with a flat back if the pad was even lower than in the video. That stretch at full ROM has really gotten rid of my low back pain.
you're right but then it's not about strengthening the back isometrically, you're then talking about stretching the back which is absolutely a function of the roman chair but not the direct topic of his statement in this video! :)
Definitely could.
@@xhalexj makes sense. definitely can see how training both ways could be useful
He cant cause he'lll fly ass first cause gravity. If they used a real machine with leg holders on the calves or a bit lowers then he could do that.
Yes you can, going lower will get your hammies involved more, what he showed in the video is a really good glute bias, both works.
You can use this machine to focus on glutes and hamstrings or back extensors. If you're focused on the latter, keep the load light and hit high reps, 15-25. Don't let someone tell you that you're wrong for hitting your extensors with this. It's just a different focus.
Are there zones or ways to make this exercise focus on lower back and less on Hamstrings?
To make it more low back focused, more through the spine vs the hip.
I would recommend working with a fitness professional who can help you perform this correctly.
I would also assess why you would want to include this in your program. People want to incorporate this if they have lower back pain but you should get a proper assessment first to identify if this exercise even makes sense for you.
Hope that helps!
@@gfhrtg54I swear I thought the form they just showed in the video WAS for lower back but now they are saying it’s for glutes and hamstrings. I thought the glutes had to flex and stretch to get work done.
WE CAN ACTIVATE GLUTES BY CONTRACTING IT, FLEXING AND RELEASE LIKE ANY OTHER BODY PART. WE NEED TO LEARN TO POSITION IT IN THE RIGHT ANGLE AND TIME AND USE WHAT MANY PEOPLE CALL NERVE (BRAIN) CONNECTION. IT TAKES FOCUS AND CONCENTRATION.TRY IT FOR ALL MUSCLES YOU ARE WILLING TO TRAIN.THAT IS WHEN WE GET RESULTS AND OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT. @@rexibhazoboa7097
@@rexibhazoboa7097 The glutes are working hard here. They thrust your hips forward. This exercise keeps the hips static as everything else moves back, which mechanically is the same thing as the hips moving forward relative to everything else.
This video seems to run head-on into other videos focusing on how constantly avoiding spine flexion results in greater back problems. TBH I intentionally use this (and the reverse hyper) to put light loads on the lower back to take the spine through a ROM and it's really helped me be in less pain.
Thank you
This guy is pretty legit though. He trains Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters!
But I guess it's not like there is one absolute truth. Some think one style is better, others think another is better. Just do what suits you.
my kung fu style is superior ;(
@@hssy2jrocker Honestly I think the truth is still out on loading through spinal flexion. For now I just do both, a lot of training for stability in the hips and some light loading through flexion, mostly banded to make it less severe in full extension. But I think both sides have decent arguments and evidence supporting them.
He specified that rounding *under load* was the issue. Practicing flexion is always good to maintain mobility, just not under a heavy load - whatever that is for you.
Definitely place it below my pelvis. I do full rom on this with no to low load. Helps me with a lot of my posterior chain. Helped me overcome cramps too.
Great explanation of how to perform the exercises and why it should be done that way. Thank you 😊
Would love to see ways to integrate weight via a plate, dumbbell, and/or barbell. Where/how should it be held to be most effective?
I want to train my lower back to be strong eccentrically and concentrically no just isometrically. I started doing back extension going through actual full lumbar flexion and extension. After 3 months of slowly increasing the weight from 10lbs to 35lbs, My back pain I've had for over over 2 years is gone. I used to be only able to sit for 30mins in horrible pain. I can now sit for an unlimited amount of time and can bend forward all the way through full lumbar flexion without pain. I've also been to 3 different PTs through this time and only 1 suggested to perform full range back extensions. I am forever grateful
Do you have a lumbar herniated disc?
@@sonidoo5908 I don't know. I never got an MRI to confirm, but my x-ray showed decreased disc height at L5-S1. Not sure if I just sprained it or worse. My signs and symptoms were consisted with a disc injury though. The first week after my injury, ANY position except supine felt like someone was stabbing a hot iron through my back
@Adrian Bolton sounds like you definitely had a herniated disc wich is what I have. I'm doing KOT program and just bought a back extension. After months of no work I really hope this is what gets me out of the gutter
@@Immortalsoul669 Yeah I was going through PT school when it happened. Just didn't want to self diagnose, but pretty sure I did. Good news is today my back is pain free all because of the back extension machine. Hope you have a quick recovery.
That's a blessing, praise God!!
I agree that to overload the compressed formof the spinal erectors you should do like youninstruct. But there is place for rounding the back to strength the muscle in a stretch form, all with the respective intensity, volume and resistance.
I recommend doing these roman chair exercises after almost any intensive athletic activity. It's gotten to the point that I do this exercise at the end of all my weight or running workouts. My lower back is the core of every athletic activity I do. When I do this lower back decompression / stretching to wrap up my activities my overall body feels better and my back says "thank you". I've left my chronic back pain from years past behind. And depending on how far I flex my torso, I even get a hamstring stretch. I now knell to the alter of the roman chair. 😅
This exercise helped my lower back pain a lot and I was told by my orthopedic doctor that it is ok to do but if you have disc problems do not add weight.
Is this true?
There are some fitness RUclipsrs (Ryan Humiston comes to mind) who advocate for doing these with back flexion specifically to build more lower back muscle (in a bodybuilding context). If someone is able to do this under load without pain, is it still safe to do this with back flexion?
I had a lower back injury and started training on this machine regularly but I would round my back to stretch and strengthen it. I found that never rounding the back is what keeps the lower back weak. It’s a natural movement that the human was designed to do.
Thank you, I had no idea I've been screwing this up the whole time.
Thanks for the advice on positioning of the pad. But not sure about “grab with the toes” - ain’t no gym that wants you to use their equipment barefoot lol.
Kneesovertoesguy enters the chat....
ha ha ha 🤣🙂
To say what?
Edit: nevermind, very low ROM
I believe Aaron has more education under his belt. If I *had* to choose between advice from either of them.
😂😂😂
@@staebs Yeah i kinda do to. But why not both? So full ROM with no weights and that limited ROM with weights?
I use this exercise to intentionally train my spinal erectors, not my glutes, so i DO intentionally round my back (obviously going with lower weight + higher reps).
I feel like it helped out my deadlifting
it's not wrong, Mike O'Hearn does exactly this too..
Same. I've actually been doing (and programming) both variations for about 12-15 years now.
I've worked as a personal trainer for nearly 20 years and I disagree with the message that this video is delivering.
The two main exercises to perform using a Roman Chair apparatus are Back Extensions and Hip Extensions. While Hip Extensions are appropriate for conditioning the core and pelvic muscles isometrically in preparation for certain compound exercises like deadlifts and squats, both exercises are correct. They simply require different mechanical movement patterns depending on what you're aiming to achieve from each one.
As the video suggests, the purpose of Hip Extensions is to lock the lumbar vertebra so that the trunk extensors are functioning isometrically as fixator muscles, supporting the trunk while the glutes and hamstrings are functioning to extend the hips. This is correct, but so to are Back Extensions, just for a different reason.
Skeletal muscles are designed to contract isometrically and isotonically. If you only perform isometric exercises for a muscle, it will only strengthen isometrically. Therefore, you will not be strengthening the muscle throughout its whole range of motion. The vertebra is designed to flex, extend, laterally flex and rotate. A Back Extension on a Roman Chair enables you to extend from a flexed position, strengthening the erector spinae, multifidus and quadratus lumborum muscles through a full range of motion.
To state that this exercise is not beneficial is misleading to your viewers and there's nothing wrong with including both variations in exercise routines some of the time, as they both require movement patterns that function with the mechanics of the MSK system rather than conflicting with them.
Thank you for that thorough explanation.
Apparently you missed 1:13 to 1:31 of the video.
Best explanation so far!!!
Bret Contreras (among others) recommends using a slightly rounded back to target the glutes more. This is the first time I'm hearing that this may increase the risk of injury under load. Hmm...
While it's true that for a hip extension this lumbar movement is not good, back extensions are actually a decent exercise for accessory work on the spinal erectors. However, it is a bit better to have a lower angle when performing back extensions, so performing the exercise on a GHD in order to place tension rather than compression on the discs is preferable.
Genuinely helpful nuanced comment in an otherwise black and white dialogue
Great refresher!!
I needed this. I adjust this machine and adjust and adjust and it never feels right.
I have fairly good hip mobility so I like to have the padding even further down. That way I can have a straight back while going lower and get the full range of motion of the glutes and hamstrings. Closer to the animation at 1:30 rather than staying parallell to the ground
I'm the same way!
Yeah, same. I can get the full range of motion with a flat back.
As someone with lifelong lower back pain, I do it the way you suggest, and it helps me immensely. If I let my lower back flex, it’s pain city.
Walk backwards uphill on a treadmill for 5 minutes every time you work out. It's excellent for your knees and helps train your legs to provide a better foundation, which takes some pressure off your back.
@@vyvianalcott1681 great tip. thanks!
Nice video! I love this exercise at least once a week, but I am able to flex forward more, with proper form, still working mid-low back. But yes, this exercise is done incorrectly by most. I see many use way too much weight. Thank you!
i see so many people doing this wrong… this short video could prevent so much pain.
It’s nice when experts validate what I intuitively do 😊
Great information! This content is priceless, thank you both for your time. 💪
Please clarify that this is a low load situation, and that you can also train the erectors with spinal flexion in this 45° hyperextension machine. There are too many videos prescribing either or when it comes to spinal flexion, and it just creates more confusion.
Problems stem from the fact that the movement is incorrectly named by the gym bros. Rounding and then straightening your spine is back flexion/extension. Elevating the torso without rounding is hip extension. Keeping the lower back in one place while raising the upper back is a hyperextension.
This was so helpful...thank you very much sir!!
yeah no.. the reason why you should use that is because you can strengthen your erectors under tension instead of compression like the back would be if it rounds while standing.. I have degenerative disk disease and a few herniated disks.. doing this with a slight round going all the way down and only raising my body to horizontal is what has strengthened my back to the point of not having much pain..
sorry just wanted to state i get these to variations have different goals completely but I dont want people to think rounding their back is all together a back thing because its honestly a necessity if you want your back to stay healthy and strong
Just to confirm, are you rounding through both Thoracic and Lumbar? (Sorry I know this comment is over a year old)
Doc, if you lowered the pad further wouldn't you extend your range of motion on the Roman Chair? It seems like that may be a good idea.
I heard/saw that in order to put more emphasis on the glutes you should flex your back on the way up and down. And here you say we shouldn't do that with our spine. Can you explain me a little more please? 😊
Bro thinks the gym lets you workout in bare feet
Really? It was to show U the details of the movement.
I've used this to help strengthen my posterior chain. I do as described with 10kg weight. Also, without weight, I flex upper back, (a bit like cat/camel). I've read most of the comments (611), and didn't see any mention of Paul Chek. So just adding him to the mix and his video "The Reverse Hyperextension Exercise". Keep strong everyone.
Exactly opposite to what Bret Contreras, the glute guy says. Bret backs up his recommendations with studies. Can you?
Thanks! This was interesting
Kneesovertoes and Squat University need to do a panel. This is the most friendly beef I've ever seen.
Back flexion under a heavy load like a deadlift sounds dangerous, but wouldn't back flexion with a light load in this case help to develop the stress tolerance level?
exactly what i thought
Not necessarily - This video explains: ruclips.net/video/_P4jqZf_rFk/видео.html
It's basically a good morning vs a Jefferson curl. Both have applications, but you need to really know what you're doing to maximize the benefit and minimize the risk of either, especially the latter (i.e., Jefferson curl).
i learnt from so many other people and videos over the year to flex the spine at the bottom (round the back) and extend on the way up(chest high and spine straightened) to get the erector muscles now i'm being told no only isometrically is the way. God i am so confused
Lol both are fine, some people would rupture their LB disc with rounding, others would be fine for many decades. So Yolo
Knees over toes guy said go really low. I did it once and hurt my back. Now I’m doing what you’re saying and I haven’t had a problem in months.
Well, not if you wanna actually train the lower back.
Just keep the loads light.
Hey mate, as always, thanks for the quality content.
Question: How does one increase the strength and size/thickness of the spinal erectors?
I would like to increase strength and muscle tissue in and around the trunk in preparation for rugby. I hope you see this and thanks if you do answer.
With progressive overload 😉👍
Barbell deadlifts, probably.
I really like this guy
Nope, movement of the lumbar spine under load is not dangerous, and it doesn't increase the risk of injury.
Thank you this was so helpful because I do this movement a lot and these tips probably saved me from hurting myself
Thank you! I was doing this exercise wrong. I was indeed bending my back ... under load!
It's not a Roman chair.
What is it
@@thedrunkengardenernb the old school roman chair... you place your knees where the hips are here. It was for ab work.
@@thedrunkengardenernb i call it a 45 degree horse.
Absolutely paranoid to do these! Pinch my L5 S1 every time 😱
New favourite exercise
this was helpful, should I not hyperextend?
Should also be pointed out that
many can lock up
L5-S1 with xs extension.
good stuff! I need to strengthen my lower back
This is awesome. Thanks for clarifying this! It can easily be confused with glute-focused exercises on this which round the back, which isn't the safest idea for hip extensions long term
So, there are some fitfluencers who claim if you round your back and grab some weight in front of your chest this exercise will hit your glutes (more) rather than your back. Like, change the technique for changing the engaged muscles - same goes with the adductors machine. What do you guys think about that? I mean, I personally do hip thrust and Bulgarien split squats to hit my glutes. I’m just curious if changing technique on certain exercises makes any sense.
I've been told to basically fold myself in half at the lowest part of the move, so this is a bit of a revelation.
I've begun doing those for my herniated disc as a rehab and it seems to not hurt and actually feel good afterwards! Can only recommend these for people who struggles with lower back pain! Of course, done right!
Exactly. I'm a CPT and have used this to rehab people with moderate sciatica.
This is kind of contrary to what Brett Contreras (glute guy), says to do. He says to deliberately curve your upper back to turn off your spinal erectors to focus more on your glutes. Assuming the way you're coaching this is to train the hip extensors and low back. Thoughts/comments?
What is the different position to target glutes or the lower back?
In both case you want to follow the starting position explained in this video with the pelvis in front of the pads. So make sure that it is adjusted low enough to rest mainly on the top of your quads. Then you can either do reps with a straight back which will work the back muscles + the glutes, or you can do what is known as a rounded back extension. To do the later, the only difference is to round the back in the bottom position and keeping it that way as you go back up. The rounded back will elongate the back muscles which will reduce their contribution and transfer more work to your glutes. Hope this helps.
Edit : for the rounded back extension, it should come more naturally to round the upper back, which is what we'd want in order to avoid disc compression in the lower back.
I love these at the gym. Do you have an alternative for home workouts without the equipment?
Great info
Great information! You’ve just saved my back!
Glad you liked this one!
Fucked my back doing this exercise about 2 weeks ago 😅 i wondered how it happened using bodyweight but now i realise the forces at play doing it wrong 😅
Great advice! I love this Chanel with the skeleton visuals.
Any advice for the reverse hyper machine?
Thank you 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
When I was doing this exercise I was in pain... So I am going to try it again but following your instructions.
Isometric spine strength is great but flexion under load is not “wrong.” They’re different progressions of training the erector spinae.
Health 2.0 versus health 3.0. IMO
I thought doing these with back flexion would train your spine to tolerating more load, as long as you do it slowly.
Great video! But one question, if you load it "properly" (for back extensors) and do the movement, for the back extensors, is that bad? Isn't that just a great exercise for the back extensors?? To work them not only isometric like they do in so many other exercises, but to work them dynamically as well?? I've learned a lot from this channel, keep it up!!!👍
I think the pad should be even lower, so the top of the pad is below the hip crease. This allows you to rotate about the hips.
If a rehab program consists of a set of core exercises, does doing painful activities during this period reverse the core stability gained by the rehab exercises?
Yes it can. That’s why it’s key to uncover what movements/exercise trigger pain in the short term so that you can eliminate/modify them to allow the body to desensitize symptoms.
@@SquatUniversity I can't thank you enough for all the information you are putting out! I am fascinated by your approach to diagnosis and rehab. I learn a LOT from you. I hope some day I get some free time and adequate budget to come down from Ontario so you do a complete checkup on my broken body.
@@john_ron you’re welcome! I’d be happy to see you when you can come down!
How to achieve hypertrophy of the lumbar spine?
A lot of the "booty" themed back extension instructionals have the upper back rounded to hit the glutes more. I've always went with the single leg back extensions on the GHD, mainly for knee comfort, but also to avoid having to use weights due to the 45 degree being way to easy. For whatever reason, my knees never liked the 45 degree angle machines.
Great video but NO WAY IN HELL AM I GOING BAREFOOT IN THE GYM LOL
Sweet. Sign me up
Hey! Thanks for this video! One question I have because you said „Spinal flexion under load“ may increase risk of injury. Why would we do jefferson curl than? (And is it unsafe to stay in the jeff curl lowest postition and sway the KB slowly side to side to stretch the back muscles? Thanks for answering🎉
I don’t recommend Jefferson curls for that reason. Here’s an explanation: ruclips.net/video/_P4jqZf_rFk/видео.html
Can elephant walks improve our end points so we can go lower on hip extensions?
Kotg videos seem to emphasize rounding the back at the bottom- I opt for safety and do not. Loaded or not.
Thing was still set up too high. Needs to be set below the hip joint to work the way it was mentioned.
I like doing it with a fully rounded back long range, also isometrically with a straight back for short range loaded with weight. both are useful.
Which one do you feel more the day after, and I mean the muscles not the spine. Greetings from germany.
@@lahoya32 I couldn't say really, the loaded exercises are more intense and create more DOMS.
@@kikibah2001 If you have a round back, don't you have to worry about your spinal discs? I like to do it like that myself, without weight, and over the next two days I notice muscles that I didn't even know existed, but many people also say that I just have to do it with a straight back. Greetings from germany.
@@lahoya32 holding the position in hyper reverse position i akso had this sensation of new muscle along the spine popping up, then you get acclimated pretty quick to hold it for time.
The spine is designed to move and bend but not with maximal load, just as dead lifts the spine must remain stable and reducing the range of motion is optimal.
Back extension, good morning, hyper reverse are all great exercises to strengthen the posterior chain and lower back.
Jefferson curl and rounded back extension without weight or light one are good for decompression, mobility.
Overall a strong back is a straight back.
I believe this is the first time I don't agree with you at all, save for the part of the pad placement.
The Spine can easily handle flexion under load, so I use this exercise ESPECIALLY for for that purpose and try to get as much movement, from round to hollow, in my back.
It's not like you can load the exercise with your deadlift weights.
Obviously, this is not true for people with eg bulging discs or other acute injuries.
But it's perfect for preventing those, since you get to move and therefore provide nutrition to your discs and strengthen the ligaments in your back.
Literally tried to use this yesterday and about killed my lower back 😅 thank you!
I did 3 sets of 20 of this exercise just now and I'm laying on the floor with my legs stretched up in the hopes of my lower back working again. I share the same sentiment as you lol
this exercise can be done for either lower back with small loads and high reps or for Glutes/Hamstrings with higher loads.
I've always had lower back pain, doing this exercise fixed my back and i can now sleep however i want, even if the matress is really soft.
Stop telling people "you cannot lift heavy with rounded back". Its stupid.
¡Gracias!
How can you make this exercise and focus mainly on lower back and less on Hamstrings?
I'll mark this so I can watch it later.
@SquatUniversity Probably too late to comment on this video, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on Reverse Hyperextensions and how much benefit they have for lower back and core strength? I've never seen you do a video in regard to this specific movement. Just curious!
I feel like I'm able to get much lower than what's demonstrated in the video without rounding my spine at all--basically to about 90 degrees. Is that possible with flexible-enough hamstrings, for instance?
Ok but I want to train my low back muscles due to spine injury. So what do I do in that case?
What do you think about doing them Brett Contreras style with chin tucked, rounded thoracic spine feet turned out neutral lumbar spine to target the glutes vs low back??
I see so many people trying to load lumbar through flexion and attempt to fix back pain with twisting stretches instead of training spine stability and hip mobility.
Can you make a video adressing knock knees please?
I like to use this piece of equipment as a stretch device. Lower pad, then bend at waist keeping back straight to stretch lower back, glutes and hams, simply by hanging.
The ATG Program by Ben Patrick encourages full range all the way to the bottom on back extensions (with a back that rounds), so I'm wondering if there's a way to justify what he's showing compared to what you guys are encouraging.
It's almost as if Ben Patrick's form with back extensions is mimicking the Jefferson Curl. Is there a difference compared to what you guys are showing?
Thanks for the pointers in the back extension. Can you do a video tutorial on the reverse hyper? Thanks in advance!
This exercise save my lower from pain during squat and RDL
What if I use this exercise to target my lower back? Kinda like the rear core exercise, like an opposite ab crunch
Still, your lower back should go from flat to contracted, never rounded towards your abs
@@reinaldogomes8666 never said I would I could keep a perfectly flat back going really low depending on the where the pads are touching my legs for stability
What if the range of motion is very limited before the back curves?
ok, so save back flexion for low load situations: would it be beneficial to train back flexion in low load situations?
IE with no weight, do back extension with intentional back flexion?
I'm thinking of adding this in with my flat back loaded extensions
Should i do it on pull day or leg day?