The worst thing Bojack did is also one of the most relatable things he did- played the victim. Everytime he fucked up, he felt bad for himself and not always the actual victims of his actions
Spot on! This is how real toxic people (including abusers and people who abuse their power within the entertainment industry) act as well. As an abuse survivor, pity was the tool they used most. People can feign humility and self-hatred for manipulation purposes, so "he's aware he's bad" doesn't cut it.
@lordfreerealestate8302 Abuse is a learned behaviour through socialisation. Somwtiems people do fake things but usally its real and an emotional and psychological issue. Peoole with truama arnt always abusers, and they 'play the victim' because they were one, and they weren't allowed to be. This trauma is so deep and unresolved that some people spend their whole lives recreating that trauma by seeking poor relationships (usually DPD and BPD) or misdirecting their anger to those around them by treating them like their old abuser which sadly sometimes is abusive (happense typically in BPD and NPD). All abuse like this is reactive but the reason is so old that it doesn't look rational anymore. It's like emotional PTSD aka a maladaptive personality disorder. Different behaviours but similar underlying causes and experiences. This is why these people are attracted to and date eachother. Before you misdirect your anger at me, I have BPD and was sexually, emotionally and physically abused by someone with ASPD, which is why I understand it so well. But at the same time I was emotionally abusive towards him because I didnt know how to cope with my BPD back then and would always talk about being suicidal and threaten to kill myself when I was suicidal as well as call him names when I got angry. I just want to help people understand that abuse come from lots of diffrent places and understand why this stuff happens and how to stop it using compassionate techniques. Neither of us were bad people we were just struggling with controlling our issues and impulses which are much better now, and we have a good relationship. On a side note please don't tell anyone that they are faking their emotions becomethey dont know that, it's so triggering because they could have been invalidated their whole lives like me.
i like him as a character, but not as a person. I loved his journey as a recovering addict and how he was learning, but I also applauded his friends for leaving him because while he did some nice things for them, he did a lot of terrible things, too. I know people who've shown regret for their actions, only to keep hurting me and others. I loved how the show never demonized other people for leaving him. One thing I wished for him was to leave Hollywoo for good because it seemed like every time he left that place, he actually grew a little.
the baddest thing is that he is oodly relatable. As someone with an anxiety disorder the episode "stupid piece of shit" spoke to me! not because i have the exact same thoughts as bojack. but because the whole episode evolves around a type of thinking pattern i have
I think that’s why over the seasons I gravitated towards Diane as they fleshed her out more. She had some of bojack’s “relatable” traits including her own version of “stupid piece of shit”. But she was a version of him with a stronger moral compass. She worked hard at helping and not hurting people the way she was hurt and that ultimately separates her from him.
The worst thing he probably did was waiting 17 minutes when Sarah Lynn overdoesed. I want to forgive him because I want to believe he can be and stay as a good person, but I don't know
@@darthtader5802oh ok good.. wait so wtf DID he do or did he just do.. nothing.. period? . I,ma watch netflix ,ore now cause of all those good shows I keep watching reviews of ngl.
@@darthtader5802it is in fact canon. The same way we found out about Sharona later in the season. After it being a joke throughout the series. That’s the whole point. You have no idea what people have done if they don’t tell you. It makes rewatching that much better.
@@moneymaker3208 with Sharona it was just implied that something happened and then we found out what it was later on but there wasn’t really an implication that he waited in the original episode and it doesn’t feel like they originally planned for him to wait 17 minutes and if they had it planned out I think they would’ve revealed it sooner than 3 seasons later. On top of that it just doesn’t feel like something Bojack would have done, I could see him waiting for 5 minutes or waiting for 17 minutes if it was someone he didn’t know. But I think he probably would have said that they made plans a few days ago to meet up at the planetarium and he found her there unconscious. This is all just my opinion but I don’t think they originally had it planned.
@@darthtader5802ok but the thing is, the og episode has him lie still, whether it be 17 or 5, its already a shitty/sus thing. Just the 17 mins emphasises how bad it was, because people over looked it, and didn't even think of that situation that way.
I like that they don't use his backstoy as an excuse for what he does. People call him out when he does terrible things and he usually does it to keep the people around him or to keep his reputation
i think one of the hardest parts for me as a viewer is that bojack constantly expresses guilt or regret about some of the things that he has done. as an audience, it is easy to hate a character that feels no remorse about their poor behavior, but it’s harder and more complex to hate a character that visibly feels regret.
It doesn’t make it harder for me to hate him just cause he feels bad about doing fucked up stuff The only true apology is a change in behavior and we don’t get that.
@@erinryan3495in reality, changed behavior is quite hard to accomplish. As we saw, even after trying really really hard one can still fail at doing better. We can all relate to that.
@@moneymaker3208 I can't relate to that, sorry. He is an horrible being, selfish and destructive to everyone around him. He literally sabotaged the career of a "friend" only because he didnt want to be left alone. He enabled Sarah Lynn to end herself basically. He is a monster.
@@abelcanocarriel1343 That's taking A LOT of accountability from Sarah Lynn, she was a full grown adult as well. You may be in denial or you may like to feel superior to others but EVERYONE falls of the wagon even from their strongest morals. And people are more likely to fail them the more they've been through. Some people can't understand that from their own privilege.
I thinks it's more so that there is at least one bad thing Bojack has done and felt bad about that the audience can relate too. Like obviously 99% of people can't relate to trying to sleep with your friends teenage daughter, or leaving someone to die. But people can relate to addiction, being a shitty friend, panicking that you aren't worthy of success, regret over life choices, depression, being shitty in a relationship etc. I think we see those moments and we ourselves a little in BoJack and that's why people like him. But I don't think the average fan idolizes him like some people do Rick in Rick and Morty because Bojack is consistently shown to be in the wrong by the show.
Why do people keep phrasing it that way? SHE tried to sleep with HIM. He rejected her advances twice, and even after that she still tried to coax him to his bed.
Being a very sympathetic person watching Bojack horseman and feeling bad for him kinda makes you feel bad for well feeling bad, as much as Bojack has done I really wanted him to get better
The thing with Bojack is that relatability does not always equal to sympathy. I feel like most people who feel that they can relate to Bojack sees him more as a hard hitting reflection (if not caricature) of themselves. That's the beauty of this show. It doesn't glamorize Bojack or it doesn't beg for you to sympathize with Bojack. If anything, it aims to change you while you still can.
What I love about this show is that the viewer's relationship with BoJack changes as well. When you start you're optimistic but as you go on you see who BoJack really is. At first you're excusing him but later on you realize he won't change and you lose hope.
I think the best thing about BoJack horseman, the show is that you can see his journey into changing into a better person, but as soon as someone compliments him or he gets the attention that he craves, he immediately goes back to the shitty person he was, I honestly don't think I could forgive some one that is like Bojack. I root for him and his recovery but all his actions he did and caused are unforgivable, I know he's a complexity emotionally damaged individual but that still doesn't excuse the shitty things he did just like Todd said. "It's you, fuck man... What else is there to say"
As much as i loathe people like Bojack, i would forgive him. I want to believe in "deep down", so even after everything he has done, I'm going to forgive him
As someone with a parent who’s a recovering addict, I desperately want to forgive Bojack. But that’s just me, and I totally get why others can’t/won’t.
Quickly wanted to add I feel like a huge part of why some people want to/or forgive Bojack can be attributed to “Stupid Piece of Shit,” because his internal monologue is SO harsh and relatable. And like I said, I WANT to forgive him. I’m not sure if I can, but I want to.
One of the best Bojack videos on YT! Bravo! Also: I would forgive Bojack but from a distance like Diane and Princess Carolyn. The worst thing he did was not call 911 immediately when he noticed Sarah Lynn was not waking up, and then lying about it to her parents. That was heartbreaking. He could’ve saved her life. She died for no reason. He is the reason she relapsed. Worst thing he ever did.
The thing that makes me still root for Bojack is that I have hope that even the worst people in this world can change for the better. Not everyone has to forgive him, nor should they. But for his own sake, he should continue trying to be the best person that he can be. I think that's why I find the ending really hopeful, even though it's sad. Some of his friends may never talk to him again, but I think he finally understands what being a good person means and can lead a better life moving forward.
What i love about this show is that you can look into it like a mirror and see how fucked up of a person you are. Everyone is suppose to relate to him, but if you relate too much to him, then there is a problem.
Let me preface this by saying: I just stumbled upon your channel and I really like your commentary and how you engage and even take suggestions from comments! It’s very nice to see. To go back to the point of the video - when I first started watching the show, I actively disliked Bojack. I (rightly) thought he was a self-centred dick. But I started to soften towards him when we were shown more of his childhood. The scene where he writes a letter to his hero, Secretariat, cracked my heart wide open. The line, “I am a good kid, and I like to play and I like school, but sometimes I get sad” really struck a chord with me. The innocence that emanates from that line, the mere fact that as a child Bojack had no guidance or warmth in his life. This wasn’t his fault, but he internalised it and reached out to his idol - a complete stranger - for advice because he knew he wouldn’t find the answers at home… it just melted me. Every flashback to his childhood thereafter was a gut punch. Particularly, the scene where Beatrice was passed out on the couch and young Bojack crawls onto her lap and falls asleep - likely the only way he was able to be close to his mother. Just the fact he was so desperate to be loved and went to such lengths to achieve that. I really related to that and I think that made me soften towards him and really root for him to improve as the series went on. However, by the series’ end, I had to come to the same conclusion that everyone close to Bojack came to: Bojack’s past, his childhood, are an EXPLANATION for why he behaves the way he does as an adult, but not an EXCUSE. Honestly it was cathartic to see him face the consequences of his many, many transgressions at the end of the series but part of me still felt pity for him somehow. Maybe that says more about me than it does him. Since the series ended, and upon subsequent rewatches, when I get to the finale I always ask myself - does he deserve redemption? How can he come back from everything he did? Everyone he was close to inevitably distanced themselves from him, to varying degrees, is that indicative of him being a lost cause? I genuinely don’t know the answer. But one thing I do know is - every time I see that little horse boy in the sailor costume, desperate for love, I just want to reach through the screen and give him a hug. The poor wee pet
I think people like him because they see parts of themselves or people they know in him. We want to see him keep trying and hope he can be better than who he has been, just like we do for ourselves and loved ones
My first time watching, I rooted for Bojack because he acknowledged the remorse he had for his actions. My second time watching, I hated Bojack because of how he guilt tripped everybody constantly without taking any accountability. Funny how the show expands our perspective of the character each season and then how that ultimately changes our perception of him in subsequent viewings.
Part of the reason I empathize with Bojack is that I see aspects of myself in him. He is depressed, lonely, self-hating and lazy. I am all those things too. On a rational level, I know I am not anywhere near as bad a person as Bojack. My worst character flaw is that I am lazy. The kinda mistakes I make are not turning in homework or forgetting to make it to doctors appointments or wasting time watching YT videos. My issues are not of the same magnitude as Bojack. But, in my lowest points, when my depression is the worst, I sometimes feel like I am. I believe there is a Bojack episode called POS or somthing like that. That ep shows Bojack’s internal monologue. I related to that monologue. Throughout that episode Bojack fails to finish tasks or accomplish goals, while constantly hating himself for it. I feel that. I can also relate to some aspects of Bojacks past. I have an abusive POS dad. He isn’t as cartoonishly evil as Bojacks dad but I can still relate to that aspect of Bojacks character. My favorite episode of the show is the one where Bojack speaks at his moms funeral. That episode really speaks to the complicated feeling that come from having an abusive parent. You hate them and how they hurt you but some small, dumb part of you just wants them to be better. That constant tension just makes it hurt more. I can also relate to some aspects of Bojacks goals. Bojack mainly wants two things. He wants to be happy and he wants to be remembered. I want those things too. Bojack attempts to be remembered by becoming a famous actor. I want to be remembered by being an artist and an author. I want to write stories and make paintings that live beyond me. I also want to be happy and making art is one of the few things that brings me real joy. I think people can also empathize with him because he does make some progress. A lot of the progress doesn’t stay and he only really makes big steps towards the end but still. He does get somewhat less toxic and somewhat more thoughtful and somewhat happier. I think that gives people hope. If a cartoonishly bad POS like Bojack can improve himself, why can’t I.
I think a lot of people circle the drain on this one: I think we "like" Bojack because we know too much about him to abandon him. We can't write him off because we've seen the scope of his complexity. We feel guilty when we consider giving up on him. And that feeling lets him get away with so much more than a character would normally be able to.
I immediately started hating Bojack when he almost slept with a 17-year-old. No matter what else happened in the show beyond that point I just didn't care I immediately hated him in real life y'all would have done the same.
I’m surprised you get tens of thousands of views but only have dang near 8,000 followers. Your videos are really detail oriented, informative and entertaining! You’re very opened minded to all situations involved. I love watching them!
adding to your point about the cast being so good: a lot of the times in a voice acted show/movie i sometimes try to imagine the actor saying it. but i don't think i ever did with Bojack. you, like, forget it's a cartoon? it's not voice-acted, those are PEOPLE. which speaks to how great it is, given that we're talking about talking horses and pink cats and a billion plays on words.
To me, it's because I know everyone is playing the hand they are dealt, and he is struggling to do better. One thing people forget about abused children is that is they grow up to be adults that don't have the same tools that people with good or even mediocre parents have. He must have been modelled after a real person to be as complicated as he is in such a realistic way.
@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 I was abused as a child and was still lucky to have one parent who was kind and gave good behaviour to model off, but my mental illnesses which developed as a result (plus genetic predisposition) have made it so hard for me to know how to act like a functional person, even after intensive therapy I still struggle. Bojack had absolutely no one to turn to. Substances and TV were the only parents he had.
@@twokindsofovenfries32 I have bipolar disorder so I know what it's like. My mother had schizophrenia and was cast out of our family when I was seven. Then when I was diagnosed with bipolar I was disowned my father's family which was the only family I had since they made sure my mother got as few rights as possible. So I was put in group homes and foster homes. None of those places taught me how to be normal that just gave me pills and yelled at me when I made mistakes. It took me twenty years to learn how to function in the world. I guess that's why I have compassion for Bojack because I know what it's like to fumble around in the dark. And while I've had good counselors I many counselors that I couldn't trust that's why I understand when people don't go for therapy because they may have had a bad experience before. You're very lucky you had had one good parent. I often thought that if I had one adult I could have trusted that I could have figured things out sooner.
@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Yeah, I feel like _that's_ where all the people who can't/won't ever forgive Bojack for whatever reason are _really_ coming from. They're kind've a bunch of assholes, in my opinion. Not saying they _have_ to forgive Bojack, I'm just saying that they should look in a mirror.
To be honest it’s not unexpected to like a main character that is awful, look at Rick Sanchez. But I do find it weird apparently people hated Diane but loved Bojack.
One of the main reasons people love Bo Jack is we see him at his worst, we see him at his lowest and we see him when he is trying his best. We as the audience get to see a 360 view of his life and we pick the things we love and hate about him. In real life we only see snippets of the people’s lives we interact with. We rarely get a full picture on someone’s life.
I really, really appreciate this show as someone who had a codependent best friend (not dissimilar to BoJack and Diane) who ended up doing something unforgivable (SA’ing my friend). Accepting what happened and reconciling it with the person I knew, the person I thought I was, was one of the most difficult periods of my life. I ended up landing on something like Diane’s philosophy - that people are first and foremost what they do.
I definitely don’t like Bojack, but I still empathize with him. He went through as much trauma as he doled out. Of course it doesn’t excuse his actions but it makes him understandable
I don't consider Bojack to be relatable or even likeable, but he was definitively an interesting and entertaining protagonist. And that allows for interesting stories
I don’t like Bojack. I like the show as a reflection on stardom and Hollywood. It was well made, but I don’t remember any of the jokes. I only remember the messed up things about it: Sarah Lynn and the deer child. Everyone’s like “bojack is so funny!” But I can only see it as a tragedy.
This show was so heavy. I need to reference Cowboy Bebop with "You're going to carry that weight..." You don't walk away from Bojack without being affected.
I do feel somewhat bad for Bojack, because I can see myself in him, and that is not something I am proud of. Me having some traits of bojack via pushing people away, self-sabotaging my life, depression, selfishness and self-loathing, being cruel to the people I care about, has made me not want to be like him. Ever. And it’s made me want to be a better person. We sympathize with him because as Diane puts it, we’re shown a lot of his vulnerability, which can make a lot of us want to like him even though he is a horrible person who has hurt many, many people. but we aren’t always shown him at his worst, he has done some good things in his life, and we really see him turn himself around in season 6, but Bojack has always been pretty bad of a person. You can see him as a broken guy who had a horrific childhood, but no one should excuse the bad things he did. He should have tried to be better than his parents, instead of being a shitty person to almost everyone around him. I do sympathize with Bojack because of his childhood, but as Todd put it, “you are all the things that are wrong with you.” and because so you should try to realize that and not make excuses for the bad things you do, you need to take accountability, which Bojack was never good at, and try to move forward and be better. So many of us see ourselves in Bojack, and since we do, we need to try and be better, because we don’t want to be like Bojack.
Bojack is something.. but i think what makes so thay we don't hate him despite SEVENTEEN MINUTES is that he suffers ALL the consequences! The show never lets anything slide so it's not as hard to love him, and he dosent fight it, he knows he deserves the consequences, he knows he's awful, so we don't need to do that for him
I don't not not like him, but his character is explored so much that I can't help but want him to do better. When he never gets better, I feel more disappointed than angry.
im gonna be really shallow and admit its his apperance i just think hes adorable and want to pet him /and i just feel bad for him a lot of the time def due to his childhood that adds a lot of pity points . plus he tries and i think we should let bad people try to get better and not just abandon em to vance wagoners of the world.. my least fav was acutally beatrice.. i think people like bojack also as he is just a tale of Tragedy and tales of tragedy connect to our empathic human nature
One of the more fascinating elements of how the show endears you to bojack that I think is interesting that you mentioned in the video was the whole him being a horse man thing because when they introduced Vince Vaughn I felt like that was a real gut punch because it was basically just bojack but without that level of non human abstraction and a moment in the show where every character (even bojack) got to really lay in and agree on how seemingly irredeemably terrible this man is for all the shit he did. And I felt like that was the closest window we got to what kind of show this would be if the characters weren’t animal hybrids and bojack was just a human guy
I kinda like him in the way you would like a troubled relative. It’s not that I would want to hang out with him in real life, more that I want him to get better and be happy. The whole series even rewatches Im like “no please stop.” Hoping he can make different decisions. And Idk I’m of the opinion that anyone who shows actual action in being a better person deserves a second chance. Even convicts. I’m super critical of prison systems for this reason.
Lol this username makes me think of a good detail for so many tv comedy shows.. like how on that one show the dr gave "Meth a trim" pills or the semi truck said "Lil pricks lice-n-ticks removal combs" lile bruh lmao...
For me, the biggest thing that has me sympathize with bojack is the moment with holly hock, when he tells her (paraphrasing) “Just because I’m shitty it means I’m shitty, but whatever I do you gotta know it’s not your fault” He knows he’s too far gone, yet he still tries to help her, I dunno was always a really good moment for me.
The worst thing Bojack did was fail Sarah Lynn. He failed to step up for so many people. But I think he was uniquely in a position to help Sarah Lynn. Other people , both main cast and peripherals, were able to understand that Bojack wasn't able to contribute and search for other venues to meet their needs. With Sarah Lynn, there is a sense that she is just waiting around, doing shit she doesn't care about until Bojack shows up again.
What type of person would Bojack be if he had normal parents, and he still did the things that he did? Bad, Right? So with his childhood in consideration that makes him a good person who did awful things. Because beyond all his shitty-ness the horse tried to be better. I mean he wasn’t sadistic, he felt awful for doing all those things to people, that was the whole reason he was depressed. People just forget how much of an impact having shitty parents like Bojack does to you. I mean his father-figure was a suicidal, addict racehorse. Bojack did awful things and he should be held accountable for every last one of them, but he wasn’t a bad person. And yes, nobody should like him though. But you not liking him doesn’t make him a bad person. A bad person doesn’t feel guilt that it drives them in to addiction. A bad person doesn’t try to change. So I don’t think the horse is bad, but he does awful things. But sometimes I think things such as good and bad people don’t really exist, like people can do good and bad things but that doesn’t define their whole character. I mean what does good and bad mean, when you can do something good for someone else and it results as being bad for someone else.
for me I almost don’t want him to be redeemable. I’ve always loved the show and when I was sexual assaulted it helped me work through it. but that’s also exactly why I don’t want him to be redeemable I know bojack and my rapist aren’t the same but I don’t want people like them to be redeemable. the ending shows us that it could be possible to redeem yourself which has always been tough for me
When he hurt people it turned into a new way to hate himself. There is no self reflection without self pity. He is begging to be forgiven at all times but can’t do the work to truly redeem himself.
After leaving n abusive situation and realizing how much enabling I did of BoJack-like men, it’s hard to watch the show. I had sooooo much sympathy for him because it was a literal trauma response I was dealing with in real life. I think people spend too much time on whether or not BoJack is a “good” person, when the more important problem is that he’s a DANGEROUS person. If you have a BoJack in your life (especially if you’re a woman), you need to get away from him.
The Panama canal rant from his father is what made me a fan of the show. I could see he had terrible parents which would explain a lot about his character. I know this does not excuse behaviour. I've always found him fascinating. Good video mate!!! 🙂
The question of forgiveness, and maybe ultimately "redemption" are interesting. General Butt Naked presents a case of someone who did truly heinous crimes before rehabilitating themself, and doing better actions. For anyone unfamiliar look them up. As for the case of BoJack Horseman. I think he can be forgiven, if he becomes truly rehabilitated and stops harming people. Nobody is truly irredeemable, everyone has the potential to be better. I recently watched a video by Sloan Stowe called Morality and BoJack Horseman which I found very insightful. Another show that deals with morality in an interesting way is The Owl House. In it a character is forgiven without working for redemption, as redemption isn't focused on by the show. Lastly I feel a need to mention justices systems. I personally disagree a lot with the American Justice system, I think it is by far too harsh, and focused on punishing convicts (as per a lot of American morality). Further I fundamentally disagree with the death penalty which is still legal in the USA, a crime in itself if you ask me. Now while I am critical of exclusively using punishment to address crime I do think criminality should be addressed, but with a much larger focus on rehabilitation. Crime for many isn't a choice, it's circumstance, changing that circumstance can many times stop them from committing a crime. Which is why I see projects like giving criminals mental health access, as well as education and work training to be better than locking them in a cell and throwing away the key. As far as I know Finland and Norway are the best examples of a focus on rehabilitating prisoners instead of punishing them.
I don't adore him. Honestly, if he were real, I'd probably loathe him. He's awful. But during the show, we get to see him trying to be a better person, but old habits and trauma just get the better of him. His good intentions are shit on and his bad actions are overblown. Even if he does fuck up royally and tries to make amends, he's blown off or he just can't set his ego aside enough to follow through with sincerity. Even still, I wanted to see Bojack do better. I wanted his friends to forgive him and for him to succeed and defeat his demons. But that's hard work he never put in because it's way too difficult to change and way too easy to slide bad into bad habits and a bad mindset. There's also too many things that he did that don't warrant forgiveness, like sabotaging Todd's opera or getting an underage girl drunk and abandoning her at the hospital with her boyfriend. Also, leading Sarah Lynn on a wild drug binge and letting her die of an overdose.
I feel like enough people dont bring up what happend with Herb as one of the worst things Bojack did. It really showed what hes capable of when his pride is hurt. Like not as bad as Sara Lynn but up there certainly.
1:07 "why is it that everyone who enjoys this show finds him endearing and sympathetic" I enjoy the series and I dont find him endearing and sympathetic at all 😅 He kept making bad choices that mess up his life and he refused to take accountability unless it's to make himself look good... kinda reminds me of my dad and we do not get along 😅
I don't sympathize with Bojack, I don't like Bojack. Unfortunately though, I UNDERSTAND Bojack. The episode Stupid Piece of Shit truly spoke to me. I've been in that headspace a lot of my life, had a similar problematic upbringing with abusive parents and substance abuse problems. Honestly, watching the show and not liking how much of myself I saw in Bojack was a big part in me wanting to make a posiTV change in my life. Thank you so much for these videos about one of the best shows to ever get made.
@@t0rn4ngel Me too.. I have had meet multiple people that are eve worse than him in every way... And I can't bother to forgive them for wronging me in everyway..
i know i’ve been reading these comments like 😟if you don’t draw the line at trying to sleep with a high schooler and letting your daughter figure die where is the line
He's never hurt us, we can't forgive him. It's more about wishing life wasn't this way, wishing his life was better and different, wishing he could stop hating himself enough to help others, because we see his potential
One can like the character without liking the person, if you know what I mean. And we can like him in the sense that we wish good things for him, and wish for him to be able to change and turn his life around, without absolving him for the horrible things he did. And me personally, I can see a bit of myself in him. Not the really bad stuff (thank god), but I know what it's like to want to change but seemingly not being able to. I won't excuse the things he did, or "forgive" him, so to speak, but yes - I like him.
The first step of Bojack on the self-destructive road is him not defendind Herb when he needed him most. He sacrificed his friend for fame.Therefore, his destiny is sealed. Dying alone. He understands that in his s06 e14 when he talk with his ex-manager. Right before the most horrfic episode dream sequence I ever seen.
A lot of these anti-heroes are played by really decent human beings and that's a part of it. Guys like James Gandolfini, Brian Cranston, and Will Arnett find the humanity in these characters. A less empathetic actor might not.
I don’t care, we are all terrible people and we have all done terrible things, we are sinners and that’s just how we are. I can relate to Bojack because he hates himself and wants to change but doesn’t and never does. I want people to have sympathy for me because of that and I have sympathy for him for that as well.
I’m glad you care about your father just make sure he doesn’t get too much like bojack and if it does get stressful take a break or set boundaries don’t want to overdo yourself
I find Bojack likeable in the same way I find characters like Barry, or Walter White likeable. I love them a lot, but then I think about what they did. And then I still like them, but uhhh Idk
actually gross to me how a lot of people excuse him being a literal pedo… there is no “he was fully going to sleep with a CHILD but”. there should be no but. he tried to sleep with a child and only didnt because he got caught (reminds me of the excuses in to catch a predator). really emphasizes our culture of not caring about crimes against women unless and until that woman dies (sarah lynn)
The worst thing Bojack did is also one of the most relatable things he did- played the victim. Everytime he fucked up, he felt bad for himself and not always the actual victims of his actions
Spot on! This is how real toxic people (including abusers and people who abuse their power within the entertainment industry) act as well. As an abuse survivor, pity was the tool they used most. People can feign humility and self-hatred for manipulation purposes, so "he's aware he's bad" doesn't cut it.
@lordfreerealestate8302 Abuse is a learned behaviour through socialisation. Somwtiems people do fake things but usally its real and an emotional and psychological issue. Peoole with truama arnt always abusers, and they 'play the victim' because they were one, and they weren't allowed to be. This trauma is so deep and unresolved that some people spend their whole lives recreating that trauma by seeking poor relationships (usually DPD and BPD) or misdirecting their anger to those around them by treating them like their old abuser which sadly sometimes is abusive (happense typically in BPD and NPD). All abuse like this is reactive but the reason is so old that it doesn't look rational anymore. It's like emotional PTSD aka a maladaptive personality disorder. Different behaviours but similar underlying causes and experiences. This is why these people are attracted to and date eachother.
Before you misdirect your anger at me, I have BPD and was sexually, emotionally and physically abused by someone with ASPD, which is why I understand it so well. But at the same time I was emotionally abusive towards him because I didnt know how to cope with my BPD back then and would always talk about being suicidal and threaten to kill myself when I was suicidal as well as call him names when I got angry.
I just want to help people understand that abuse come from lots of diffrent places and understand why this stuff happens and how to stop it using compassionate techniques. Neither of us were bad people we were just struggling with controlling our issues and impulses which are much better now, and we have a good relationship.
On a side note please don't tell anyone that they are faking their emotions becomethey dont know that, it's so triggering because they could have been invalidated their whole lives like me.
i like him as a character, but not as a person. I loved his journey as a recovering addict and how he was learning, but I also applauded his friends for leaving him because while he did some nice things for them, he did a lot of terrible things, too. I know people who've shown regret for their actions, only to keep hurting me and others. I loved how the show never demonized other people for leaving him.
One thing I wished for him was to leave Hollywoo for good because it seemed like every time he left that place, he actually grew a little.
It's the culture of that place, it's not good for someone that has the baggage that he does, also rewatching this makes you dislike him more
well maybe not that one time he left hollywoo.....
@@aprioriontoast704 which one, he left hollywoo several times
@@dream6562New Mexico
@@UltimatumDastric debatable I'd say the one with the family house is worse
The moment where Vincent Adultman is stroking Bojack's head saying "Don't be sad. Good horsey" perfectly demonstrates your last point.
the baddest thing is that he is oodly relatable. As someone with an anxiety disorder the episode "stupid piece of shit" spoke to me! not because i have the exact same thoughts as bojack. but because the whole episode evolves around a type of thinking pattern i have
I think that’s why over the seasons I gravitated towards Diane as they fleshed her out more. She had some of bojack’s “relatable” traits including her own version of “stupid piece of shit”. But she was a version of him with a stronger moral compass. She worked hard at helping and not hurting people the way she was hurt and that ultimately separates her from him.
@@alyssapinon9670yes!! diane wanted to change for the better and she was mad at herself for not doing so!
The worst thing he probably did was waiting 17 minutes when Sarah Lynn overdoesed. I want to forgive him because I want to believe he can be and stay as a good person, but I don't know
He didn’t wait 17 minutes in the original episode. They retconned it in season 6 to make bojack sound worse but it’s never gonna be canon in my eyes.
@@darthtader5802oh ok good.. wait so wtf DID he do or did he just do.. nothing.. period?
.
I,ma watch netflix ,ore now cause of all those good shows I keep watching reviews of ngl.
@@darthtader5802it is in fact canon. The same way we found out about Sharona later in the season. After it being a joke throughout the series. That’s the whole point. You have no idea what people have done if they don’t tell you. It makes rewatching that much better.
@@moneymaker3208 with Sharona it was just implied that something happened and then we found out what it was later on but there wasn’t really an implication that he waited in the original episode and it doesn’t feel like they originally planned for him to wait 17 minutes and if they had it planned out I think they would’ve revealed it sooner than 3 seasons later. On top of that it just doesn’t feel like something Bojack would have done, I could see him waiting for 5 minutes or waiting for 17 minutes if it was someone he didn’t know. But I think he probably would have said that they made plans a few days ago to meet up at the planetarium and he found her there unconscious. This is all just my opinion but I don’t think they originally had it planned.
@@darthtader5802ok but the thing is, the og episode has him lie still, whether it be 17 or 5, its already a shitty/sus thing. Just the 17 mins emphasises how bad it was, because people over looked it, and didn't even think of that situation that way.
I like that they don't use his backstoy as an excuse for what he does. People call him out when he does terrible things and he usually does it to keep the people around him or to keep his reputation
i think one of the hardest parts for me as a viewer is that bojack constantly expresses guilt or regret about some of the things that he has done. as an audience, it is easy to hate a character that feels no remorse about their poor behavior, but it’s harder and more complex to hate a character that visibly feels regret.
It doesn’t make it harder for me to hate him just cause he feels bad about doing fucked up stuff
The only true apology is a change in behavior and we don’t get that.
@@erinryan3495in reality, changed behavior is quite hard to accomplish. As we saw, even after trying really really hard one can still fail at doing better. We can all relate to that.
@@moneymaker3208 I can't relate to that, sorry. He is an horrible being, selfish and destructive to everyone around him. He literally sabotaged the career of a "friend" only because he didnt want to be left alone. He enabled Sarah Lynn to end herself basically. He is a monster.
@@abelcanocarriel1343calling him a monster literally goes against the whole point of the show
@@abelcanocarriel1343 That's taking A LOT of accountability from Sarah Lynn, she was a full grown adult as well. You may be in denial or you may like to feel superior to others but EVERYONE falls of the wagon even from their strongest morals. And people are more likely to fail them the more they've been through. Some people can't understand that from their own privilege.
I thinks it's more so that there is at least one bad thing Bojack has done and felt bad about that the audience can relate too. Like obviously 99% of people can't relate to trying to sleep with your friends teenage daughter, or leaving someone to die. But people can relate to addiction, being a shitty friend, panicking that you aren't worthy of success, regret over life choices, depression, being shitty in a relationship etc. I think we see those moments and we ourselves a little in BoJack and that's why people like him. But I don't think the average fan idolizes him like some people do Rick in Rick and Morty because Bojack is consistently shown to be in the wrong by the show.
Why do people keep phrasing it that way? SHE tried to sleep with HIM. He rejected her advances twice, and even after that she still tried to coax him to his bed.
@@genatools919 Still he was the adult, and knew it was wrong, yet he chose to go ahead with it anyways because he was feeling down about himself
Being a very sympathetic person watching Bojack horseman and feeling bad for him kinda makes you feel bad for well feeling bad, as much as Bojack has done I really wanted him to get better
I think for that reason Diane became easier to root for as the seasons went on. She was flawed but hasn’t done anything irredeemable.
The thing with Bojack is that relatability does not always equal to sympathy. I feel like most people who feel that they can relate to Bojack sees him more as a hard hitting reflection (if not caricature) of themselves. That's the beauty of this show. It doesn't glamorize Bojack or it doesn't beg for you to sympathize with Bojack. If anything, it aims to change you while you still can.
Pretty much
What I love about this show is that the viewer's relationship with BoJack changes as well. When you start you're optimistic but as you go on you see who BoJack really is. At first you're excusing him but later on you realize he won't change and you lose hope.
he did change at the end tho, at least became better
I think the best thing about BoJack horseman, the show is that you can see his journey into changing into a better person, but as soon as someone compliments him or he gets the attention that he craves, he immediately goes back to the shitty person he was, I honestly don't think I could forgive some one that is like Bojack. I root for him and his recovery but all his actions he did and caused are unforgivable, I know he's a complexity emotionally damaged individual but that still doesn't excuse the shitty things he did just like Todd said. "It's you, fuck man... What else is there to say"
As much as i loathe people like Bojack, i would forgive him. I want to believe in "deep down", so even after everything he has done, I'm going to forgive him
Don't
What he did to Sarah Lynn & Penny are unforgivable sorry
I love bojack but I won't forgive him
He is the best ever ❤
@MylingCyrus Let people have different opinions. Not everyone has to agree with you, so you _can't_ say that this person is wrong.
i love that diane gets to be a whole bojack sometimes instead of pigeon-holed as a skyler white
Love her transition from generic moral compass love interest to a flawed, well developed character who gets her own redemption arc.
As someone with a parent who’s a recovering addict, I desperately want to forgive Bojack. But that’s just me, and I totally get why others can’t/won’t.
Quickly wanted to add I feel like a huge part of why some people want to/or forgive Bojack can be attributed to “Stupid Piece of Shit,” because his internal monologue is SO harsh and relatable.
And like I said, I WANT to forgive him. I’m not sure if I can, but I want to.
This is valid and I think this is Todd’s perspective in the second half of season 6. He wanted Bojack at his housewarming party but he just couldn’t.
One of the best Bojack videos on YT! Bravo!
Also: I would forgive Bojack but from a distance like Diane and Princess Carolyn. The worst thing he did was not call 911 immediately when he noticed Sarah Lynn was not waking up, and then lying about it to her parents. That was heartbreaking. He could’ve saved her life. She died for no reason. He is the reason she relapsed. Worst thing he ever did.
The thing that makes me still root for Bojack is that I have hope that even the worst people in this world can change for the better. Not everyone has to forgive him, nor should they. But for his own sake, he should continue trying to be the best person that he can be. I think that's why I find the ending really hopeful, even though it's sad. Some of his friends may never talk to him again, but I think he finally understands what being a good person means and can lead a better life moving forward.
Yes! Exactly!
What i love about this show is that you can look into it like a mirror and see how fucked up of a person you are. Everyone is suppose to relate to him, but if you relate too much to him, then there is a problem.
Omg, I haven't thought about that, think I did give him a lot of grace for the simple fact of being a horse.
Let me preface this by saying: I just stumbled upon your channel and I really like your commentary and how you engage and even take suggestions from comments! It’s very nice to see.
To go back to the point of the video - when I first started watching the show, I actively disliked Bojack. I (rightly) thought he was a self-centred dick. But I started to soften towards him when we were shown more of his childhood.
The scene where he writes a letter to his hero, Secretariat, cracked my heart wide open. The line, “I am a good kid, and I like to play and I like school, but sometimes I get sad” really struck a chord with me. The innocence that emanates from that line, the mere fact that as a child Bojack had no guidance or warmth in his life. This wasn’t his fault, but he internalised it and reached out to his idol - a complete stranger - for advice because he knew he wouldn’t find the answers at home… it just melted me. Every flashback to his childhood thereafter was a gut punch. Particularly, the scene where Beatrice was passed out on the couch and young Bojack crawls onto her lap and falls asleep - likely the only way he was able to be close to his mother.
Just the fact he was so desperate to be loved and went to such lengths to achieve that. I really related to that and I think that made me soften towards him and really root for him to improve as the series went on.
However, by the series’ end, I had to come to the same conclusion that everyone close to Bojack came to: Bojack’s past, his childhood, are an EXPLANATION for why he behaves the way he does as an adult, but not an EXCUSE.
Honestly it was cathartic to see him face the consequences of his many, many transgressions at the end of the series but part of me still felt pity for him somehow. Maybe that says more about me than it does him. Since the series ended, and upon subsequent rewatches, when I get to the finale I always ask myself - does he deserve redemption? How can he come back from everything he did? Everyone he was close to inevitably distanced themselves from him, to varying degrees, is that indicative of him being a lost cause? I genuinely don’t know the answer.
But one thing I do know is - every time I see that little horse boy in the sailor costume, desperate for love, I just want to reach through the screen and give him a hug. The poor wee pet
I think people like him because they see parts of themselves or people they know in him. We want to see him keep trying and hope he can be better than who he has been, just like we do for ourselves and loved ones
To me it's cause we see that he has a goodness underneath it all, a desire to do better, but a difficulty in changing
Dude I thought you had more subscribers than you do, what?? I would love to see more videos of you talking about Bojack ❤
My first time watching, I rooted for Bojack because he acknowledged the remorse he had for his actions.
My second time watching, I hated Bojack because of how he guilt tripped everybody constantly without taking any accountability.
Funny how the show expands our perspective of the character each season and then how that ultimately changes our perception of him in subsequent viewings.
Part of the reason I empathize with Bojack is that I see aspects of myself in him. He is depressed, lonely, self-hating and lazy. I am all those things too. On a rational level, I know I am not anywhere near as bad a person as Bojack. My worst character flaw is that I am lazy. The kinda mistakes I make are not turning in homework or forgetting to make it to doctors appointments or wasting time watching YT videos. My issues are not of the same magnitude as Bojack. But, in my lowest points, when my depression is the worst, I sometimes feel like I am.
I believe there is a Bojack episode called POS or somthing like that. That ep shows Bojack’s internal monologue. I related to that monologue. Throughout that episode Bojack fails to finish tasks or accomplish goals, while constantly hating himself for it. I feel that.
I can also relate to some aspects of Bojacks past. I have an abusive POS dad. He isn’t as cartoonishly evil as Bojacks dad but I can still relate to that aspect of Bojacks character. My favorite episode of the show is the one where Bojack speaks at his moms funeral. That episode really speaks to the complicated feeling that come from having an abusive parent. You hate them and how they hurt you but some small, dumb part of you just wants them to be better. That constant tension just makes it hurt more.
I can also relate to some aspects of Bojacks goals. Bojack mainly wants two things. He wants to be happy and he wants to be remembered. I want those things too. Bojack attempts to be remembered by becoming a famous actor. I want to be remembered by being an artist and an author. I want to write stories and make paintings that live beyond me. I also want to be happy and making art is one of the few things that brings me real joy.
I think people can also empathize with him because he does make some progress. A lot of the progress doesn’t stay and he only really makes big steps towards the end but still. He does get somewhat less toxic and somewhat more thoughtful and somewhat happier. I think that gives people hope. If a cartoonishly bad POS like Bojack can improve himself, why can’t I.
I think a lot of people circle the drain on this one:
I think we "like" Bojack because we know too much about him to abandon him. We can't write him off because we've seen the scope of his complexity. We feel guilty when we consider giving up on him. And that feeling lets him get away with so much more than a character would normally be able to.
I immediately started hating Bojack when he almost slept with a 17-year-old. No matter what else happened in the show beyond that point I just didn't care I immediately hated him in real life y'all would have done the same.
I wouldn't say I hated him, but that was the point that I totally disconnected from his character.
I’m surprised you get tens of thousands of views but only have dang near 8,000 followers. Your videos are really detail oriented, informative and entertaining! You’re very opened minded to all situations involved. I love watching them!
adding to your point about the cast being so good: a lot of the times in a voice acted show/movie i sometimes try to imagine the actor saying it. but i don't think i ever did with Bojack. you, like, forget it's a cartoon? it's not voice-acted, those are PEOPLE. which speaks to how great it is, given that we're talking about talking horses and pink cats and a billion plays on words.
To me, it's because I know everyone is playing the hand they are dealt, and he is struggling to do better. One thing people forget about abused children is that is they grow up to be adults that don't have the same tools that people with good or even mediocre parents have. He must have been modelled after a real person to be as complicated as he is in such a realistic way.
Yeah I feel like people gloss over just how much childhood trauma varies and can completely change a person
@@twokindsofovenfries32 my theory is that people don't want to understand because putting someone else down makes them feel better about themselves
@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 I was abused as a child and was still lucky to have one parent who was kind and gave good behaviour to model off, but my mental illnesses which developed as a result (plus genetic predisposition) have made it so hard for me to know how to act like a functional person, even after intensive therapy I still struggle. Bojack had absolutely no one to turn to. Substances and TV were the only parents he had.
@@twokindsofovenfries32 I have bipolar disorder so I know what it's like. My mother had schizophrenia and was cast out of our family when I was seven. Then when I was diagnosed with bipolar I was disowned my father's family which was the only family I had since they made sure my mother got as few rights as possible. So I was put in group homes and foster homes. None of those places taught me how to be normal that just gave me pills and yelled at me when I made mistakes. It took me twenty years to learn how to function in the world. I guess that's why I have compassion for Bojack because I know what it's like to fumble around in the dark. And while I've had good counselors I many counselors that I couldn't trust that's why I understand when people don't go for therapy because they may have had a bad experience before.
You're very lucky you had had one good parent. I often thought that if I had one adult I could have trusted that I could have figured things out sooner.
@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Yeah, I feel like _that's_ where all the people who can't/won't ever forgive Bojack for whatever reason are _really_ coming from. They're kind've a bunch of assholes, in my opinion. Not saying they _have_ to forgive Bojack, I'm just saying that they should look in a mirror.
who knew g.o.b. had so much freakin' depth
To be honest it’s not unexpected to like a main character that is awful, look at Rick Sanchez. But I do find it weird apparently people hated Diane but loved Bojack.
One of the main reasons people love Bo Jack is we see him at his worst, we see him at his lowest and we see him when he is trying his best. We as the audience get to see a 360 view of his life and we pick the things we love and hate about him. In real life we only see snippets of the people’s lives we interact with. We rarely get a full picture on someone’s life.
I really, really appreciate this show as someone who had a codependent best friend (not dissimilar to BoJack and Diane) who ended up doing something unforgivable (SA’ing my friend). Accepting what happened and reconciling it with the person I knew, the person I thought I was, was one of the most difficult periods of my life. I ended up landing on something like Diane’s philosophy - that people are first and foremost what they do.
I definitely don’t like Bojack, but I still empathize with him. He went through as much trauma as he doled out. Of course it doesn’t excuse his actions but it makes him understandable
I like him as a character but not a person
I don't consider Bojack to be relatable or even likeable, but he was definitively an interesting and entertaining protagonist. And that allows for interesting stories
I don’t like Bojack. I like the show as a reflection on stardom and Hollywood. It was well made, but I don’t remember any of the jokes. I only remember the messed up things about it: Sarah Lynn and the deer child. Everyone’s like “bojack is so funny!” But I can only see it as a tragedy.
wholeheartedly agree
This show was so heavy. I need to reference Cowboy Bebop with "You're going to carry that weight..." You don't walk away from Bojack without being affected.
I do feel somewhat bad for Bojack, because I can see myself in him, and that is not something I am proud of. Me having some traits of bojack via pushing people away, self-sabotaging my life, depression, selfishness and self-loathing, being cruel to the people I care about, has made me not want to be like him. Ever. And it’s made me want to be a better person. We sympathize with him because as Diane puts it, we’re shown a lot of his vulnerability, which can make a lot of us want to like him even though he is a horrible person who has hurt many, many people. but we aren’t always shown him at his worst, he has done some good things in his life, and we really see him turn himself around in season 6, but Bojack has always been pretty bad of a person. You can see him as a broken guy who had a horrific childhood, but no one should excuse the bad things he did. He should have tried to be better than his parents, instead of being a shitty person to almost everyone around him. I do sympathize with Bojack because of his childhood, but as Todd put it, “you are all the things that are wrong with you.” and because so you should try to realize that and not make excuses for the bad things you do, you need to take accountability, which Bojack was never good at, and try to move forward and be better. So many of us see ourselves in Bojack, and since we do, we need to try and be better, because we don’t want to be like Bojack.
Aaah
...
Also is because he is a horse?
I mean I go soft on him also for this, the fact that he is a HORSE it's touch me a lot 🎉
Bojack is something.. but i think what makes so thay we don't hate him despite SEVENTEEN MINUTES is that he suffers ALL the consequences! The show never lets anything slide so it's not as hard to love him, and he dosent fight it, he knows he deserves the consequences, he knows he's awful, so we don't need to do that for him
I don't not not like him, but his character is explored so much that I can't help but want him to do better. When he never gets better, I feel more disappointed than angry.
I think I just realised that Herb Kazzaz in "the recurring dream" wears Mister Peanutbutter's outfit from "Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities".
im gonna be really shallow and admit its his apperance i just think hes adorable and want to pet him /and i just feel bad for him a lot of the time def due to his childhood that adds a lot of pity points . plus he tries and i think we should let bad people try to get better and not just abandon em to vance wagoners of the world.. my least fav was acutally beatrice.. i think people like bojack also as he is just a tale of Tragedy and tales of tragedy connect to our empathic human nature
One of the more fascinating elements of how the show endears you to bojack that I think is interesting that you mentioned in the video was the whole him being a horse man thing because when they introduced Vince Vaughn I felt like that was a real gut punch because it was basically just bojack but without that level of non human abstraction and a moment in the show where every character (even bojack) got to really lay in and agree on how seemingly irredeemably terrible this man is for all the shit he did. And I felt like that was the closest window we got to what kind of show this would be if the characters weren’t animal hybrids and bojack was just a human guy
Of all the horrible things he did, I'm kinda surprised he didn't comment on Diane's weight gain
I kinda like him in the way you would like a troubled relative. It’s not that I would want to hang out with him in real life, more that I want him to get better and be happy. The whole series even rewatches Im like “no please stop.” Hoping he can make different decisions. And Idk I’m of the opinion that anyone who shows actual action in being a better person deserves a second chance. Even convicts. I’m super critical of prison systems for this reason.
I'd *love* a PC deep dive ❤
Lol this username makes me think of a good detail for so many tv comedy shows.. like how on that one show the dr gave "Meth a trim" pills or the semi truck said "Lil pricks lice-n-ticks removal combs" lile bruh lmao...
This show is amazing. The way they bring some episodes, the dialogue and the characters are stellar
0:00 "So, here's the thing about BoJack Horseman."
Just say the thing! You don't need to introduce the concept that there's going to be a thing!
For me, the biggest thing that has me sympathize with bojack is the moment with holly hock, when he tells her (paraphrasing)
“Just because I’m shitty it means I’m shitty, but whatever I do you gotta know it’s not your fault”
He knows he’s too far gone, yet he still tries to help her, I dunno was always a really good moment for me.
Bojack was made to be relatable, the philbert premiere shows that
He is such a likeable character it's scary.
The worst thing Bojack did was fail Sarah Lynn. He failed to step up for so many people. But I think he was uniquely in a position to help Sarah Lynn. Other people , both main cast and peripherals, were able to understand that Bojack wasn't able to contribute and search for other venues to meet their needs. With Sarah Lynn, there is a sense that she is just waiting around, doing shit she doesn't care about until Bojack shows up again.
For me the main reason is: because he feels remorse. Aaa
What type of person would Bojack be if he had normal parents, and he still did the things that he did? Bad, Right?
So with his childhood in consideration that makes him a good person who did awful things. Because beyond all his shitty-ness the horse tried to be better. I mean he wasn’t sadistic, he felt awful for doing all those things to people, that was the whole reason he was depressed. People just forget how much of an impact having shitty parents like Bojack does to you. I mean his father-figure was a suicidal, addict racehorse. Bojack did awful things and he should be held accountable for every last one of them, but he wasn’t a bad person. And yes, nobody should like him though. But you not liking him doesn’t make him a bad person. A bad person doesn’t feel guilt that it drives them in to addiction. A bad person doesn’t try to change. So I don’t think the horse is bad, but he does awful things. But sometimes I think things such as good and bad people don’t really exist, like people can do good and bad things but that doesn’t define their whole character. I mean what does good and bad mean, when you can do something good for someone else and it results as being bad for someone else.
I am able to forgive his actions mainly because I love the character himself and because I also happen to be a horse and animation lover.
for me I almost don’t want him to be redeemable. I’ve always loved the show and when I was sexual assaulted it helped me work through it. but that’s also exactly why I don’t want him to be redeemable I know bojack and my rapist aren’t the same but I don’t want people like them to be redeemable. the ending shows us that it could be possible to redeem yourself which has always been tough for me
Love your voice! Love the video!
When he hurt people it turned into a new way to hate himself. There is no self reflection without self pity. He is begging to be forgiven at all times but can’t do the work to truly redeem himself.
After leaving n abusive situation and realizing how much enabling I did of BoJack-like men, it’s hard to watch the show. I had sooooo much sympathy for him because it was a literal trauma response I was dealing with in real life. I think people spend too much time on whether or not BoJack is a “good” person, when the more important problem is that he’s a DANGEROUS person. If you have a BoJack in your life (especially if you’re a woman), you need to get away from him.
The Panama canal rant from his father is what made me a fan of the show. I could see he had terrible parents which would explain a lot about his character. I know this does not excuse behaviour. I've always found him fascinating. Good video mate!!! 🙂
The question of forgiveness, and maybe ultimately "redemption" are interesting. General Butt Naked presents a case of someone who did truly heinous crimes before rehabilitating themself, and doing better actions. For anyone unfamiliar look them up.
As for the case of BoJack Horseman. I think he can be forgiven, if he becomes truly rehabilitated and stops harming people. Nobody is truly irredeemable, everyone has the potential to be better.
I recently watched a video by Sloan Stowe called Morality and BoJack Horseman which I found very insightful.
Another show that deals with morality in an interesting way is The Owl House. In it a character is forgiven without working for redemption, as redemption isn't focused on by the show.
Lastly I feel a need to mention justices systems. I personally disagree a lot with the American Justice system, I think it is by far too harsh, and focused on punishing convicts (as per a lot of American morality). Further I fundamentally disagree with the death penalty which is still legal in the USA, a crime in itself if you ask me. Now while I am critical of exclusively using punishment to address crime I do think criminality should be addressed, but with a much larger focus on rehabilitation. Crime for many isn't a choice, it's circumstance, changing that circumstance can many times stop them from committing a crime. Which is why I see projects like giving criminals mental health access, as well as education and work training to be better than locking them in a cell and throwing away the key. As far as I know Finland and Norway are the best examples of a focus on rehabilitating prisoners instead of punishing them.
or an angsty zebra
Diane? You mean Daria right? Bojack is an awesome show. Its a dramady.
personally i just relate to him a lot
Will Arnett is possibly the best voice actor I've ever seen.
I don't adore him. Honestly, if he were real, I'd probably loathe him. He's awful.
But during the show, we get to see him trying to be a better person, but old habits and trauma just get the better of him. His good intentions are shit on and his bad actions are overblown. Even if he does fuck up royally and tries to make amends, he's blown off or he just can't set his ego aside enough to follow through with sincerity.
Even still, I wanted to see Bojack do better. I wanted his friends to forgive him and for him to succeed and defeat his demons. But that's hard work he never put in because it's way too difficult to change and way too easy to slide bad into bad habits and a bad mindset. There's also too many things that he did that don't warrant forgiveness, like sabotaging Todd's opera or getting an underage girl drunk and abandoning her at the hospital with her boyfriend. Also, leading Sarah Lynn on a wild drug binge and letting her die of an overdose.
i think i sometimes forget that if the crew wasn’t there to restrain bojack in season 5, he most definitely would’ve killed gina. if did, then what?
The comments give better insights than this video
I feel like enough people dont bring up what happend with Herb as one of the worst things Bojack did. It really showed what hes capable of when his pride is hurt. Like not as bad as Sara Lynn but up there certainly.
1:07
"why is it that everyone who enjoys this show finds him endearing and sympathetic"
I enjoy the series and I dont find him endearing and sympathetic at all 😅 He kept making bad choices that mess up his life and he refused to take accountability unless it's to make himself look good... kinda reminds me of my dad and we do not get along 😅
9:03 In the famous words of Michael Jordan: Stop it. Get some help.
I find him utterly despicable at times, but I can never bring myself to fully hate him. I just see too much of myself in him
the worst think bojack did is make me cry
Yeah, definitely in that in need of help club, but all in good damage .
I don't sympathize with Bojack, I don't like Bojack. Unfortunately though, I UNDERSTAND Bojack. The episode Stupid Piece of Shit truly spoke to me. I've been in that headspace a lot of my life, had a similar problematic upbringing with abusive parents and substance abuse problems. Honestly, watching the show and not liking how much of myself I saw in Bojack was a big part in me wanting to make a posiTV change in my life. Thank you so much for these videos about one of the best shows to ever get made.
I've always seen myself in bojack, and I've always recognized that as a bad thing
Nothing in the world could make me like that character or even remotely forgive him, I don’t get it with yall
right !! i cant believe some people are saying they would forgive him
@@t0rn4ngel
Me too..
I have had meet multiple people that are eve worse than him in every way...
And I can't bother to forgive them for wronging me in everyway..
i know i’ve been reading these comments like 😟if you don’t draw the line at trying to sleep with a high schooler and letting your daughter figure die where is the line
He's never hurt us, we can't forgive him. It's more about wishing life wasn't this way, wishing his life was better and different, wishing he could stop hating himself enough to help others, because we see his potential
One can like the character without liking the person, if you know what I mean. And we can like him in the sense that we wish good things for him, and wish for him to be able to change and turn his life around, without absolving him for the horrible things he did.
And me personally, I can see a bit of myself in him. Not the really bad stuff (thank god), but I know what it's like to want to change but seemingly not being able to. I won't excuse the things he did, or "forgive" him, so to speak, but yes - I like him.
He absolutely shouldn't be forgiven
Well, he does remind me of my dad....
How do I not feel slightly bad for him when I'm giggling at his stupid jokes 😭
The first step of Bojack on the self-destructive road is him not defendind Herb when he needed him most. He sacrificed his friend for fame.Therefore, his destiny is sealed. Dying alone. He understands that in his s06 e14 when he talk with his ex-manager. Right before the most horrfic episode dream sequence I ever seen.
A lot of these anti-heroes are played by really decent human beings and that's a part of it. Guys like James Gandolfini, Brian Cranston, and Will Arnett find the humanity in these characters. A less empathetic actor might not.
I just like listening to your voice
I don’t care, we are all terrible people and we have all done terrible things, we are sinners and that’s just how we are. I can relate to Bojack because he hates himself and wants to change but doesn’t and never does. I want people to have sympathy for me because of that and I have sympathy for him for that as well.
I relate to Bojack and I don’t like it and the show kinda pushed me to start getting help because of that
I couldn't forgive him. He reminds me too much of my dad. I know what the consequences are of keeping someone like this in your life.
I’m glad you care about your father just make sure he doesn’t get too much like bojack and if it does get stressful take a break or set boundaries don’t want to overdo yourself
I find Bojack likeable in the same way I find characters like Barry, or Walter White likeable. I love them a lot, but then I think about what they did. And then I still like them, but uhhh
Idk
Nah he’s the best
We like the joker and we should not sooo
well, that does it. i liked you until your stubborn refusal to talk about my hands down favorite thing next to adult animation: marijauna
I LOVE him
real
I don’t hate him. I understand him I get him. I don’t like him as a person. I could never be around a person like him. I do not sympathize with him.
idc i love bojack
CAN YOU STOP SAYING HOLLYWOOB? please say hollywoo lmao
actually gross to me how a lot of people excuse him being a literal pedo… there is no “he was fully going to sleep with a CHILD but”. there should be no but. he tried to sleep with a child and only didnt because he got caught (reminds me of the excuses in to catch a predator). really emphasizes our culture of not caring about crimes against women unless and until that woman dies (sarah lynn)
For me if anyone feels like they relate to any of bojack horseman's character, they still need therapy