As a rule, musical preference should not be the *sole* reason for leaving your church, but worship from Hillsong, Elevation, and Bethel can be grounds for leaving. Please see our video with Justin Peters encouraging pastors to not allow worship songs from those aberrant churches. ruclips.net/video/Y0uFSYHVSRk/видео.html
I just couldn't stand 1/2 hour or more of that "worship music", but worse than that was the fact that the pastors swayed with every wind of doctrine. They had waded into the "hyper-grace" slumgullion for a while, and then the last time I went, they had bought into the "Open Table" apostasy, and invited everyone, specifying all unbelievers, as well, to partake of Holy Communion, effectively encouraging them to illness and possible death! 1 Corinthians 11: 27-30. "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." The pastor who seems to lead the the way into these breezes and gales is a guy who injects "IT'S ALL GOOD!" into every conversation, oblivious to the fact he's directly contradicting the Biblical stance, and by that lie making the gospel unnecessary. The other pastor often gave great sermons, but used the NIV, which sounds like chalk on a blackboard to me.
The biggest reason I left my last church was because they were seeking a “Toronto Blessing” type of outpouring. They talked more about healing than Jesus, and never mentioned sin. I believe this to be a major issue and it covers more than heretical teaching.
I have a genuine question: Why do so many churches have so many husband and wife pastors? Is it necessary? Why is this trend so popular? Con, Australia.
@@conartist267 The husband/wife pastors are simply building their own little kingdoms instead of God's kingdom, it is not biblical to have women pastors, period. I would never submit to the spiritual authority of any woman pastor ever, it is highly unbiblical.
As an unequally yoked military wife, I've been responsible for finding a new church after relocating many, many times (I was saved 3 years into my 30 year marriage, now widowed). Over these years, I've left several churches after just a few visits - while still "shopping" in a new town. Only 3 times have I felt led to leave a church that was "my" church. It wasn't easy, at times I felt like I was being overly critical and judgmental. In hind sight, I see clearly that my concerns were quite valid and there were serious problems. Thank you for this list Todd (and team Wretched), it is a message that needs to be heard.
Great video, Todd. I love the "rules" at the end. My family moved congregations 2 years ago after being members for 16 years. Tough decision, but necessary. We left with the blessing of the Pastor and leadership and left nothing but friendships. We vowed to never steal sheep or be guilty to talking negatively about our brothers and sisters still there. Leave only when necessary, and leave the right way!
When our church introduced a female pastor, I knew it was time to go. There had been MANY issues prior to that, but female pastor was the straw that broke the camel's back. Now we go to a solid, Bible teaching, theologically sound church and are growing and learning more than we ever thought possible.
Exactly, anyone female can be in a place of authority over other females (older women teach the younger); but, not over any man! Why? As the bride of Messiah we are never to put ourselves above Him! He didn't call any women as emissaries (apostles), just as there were no female priests, ever!
@@mattityahubentzur6220 Mattityahu, if that's your real name, I'd guess you're a Messianic Jew. Bless you! However, your argument that women may lead and teach other women, but not men, because that would be like the Bride of Messiah putting herself above Yeshua (Jesus), is nonsense! Believing MEN are also part of the Bride, so does that put them above the Groom? Please see my post from yesterday, and open your mind to what the Bible actually says, as opposed to what you've been told it says, or would like to think it says. Although Yeshua called 12 men to be the first Emissaries/Apostles to found the church, reflecting the 12 sons of Yacov (Jacob) who founded the 12 tribes of Israel, there is at least one reference to a female apostle (small 'a') in the New Testament. Her name was Junia, not JuniaS as in some translations. The male form of the name was unknown in the 1st century. (Rom.16:7) -
@@lkae4 Yes, I do know of female pastor-led churches that haven't 'slid down the progressive cliff' - the two churches that I led for a start! I always upheld and taught traditional evangelical doctrine, including a literal understanding of Genesis 1-11. And I know of other such churches too. (In the UK) However, let me make this clear. I believe the biblical model is that a local church should be led, not by one paid professional, of whichever gender, but by a team, and that team should include people of both sexes. Although I was the only paid pastor (both my churches were small, and I had to work within the system) I always had both men and women on the leadership team, helping and supporting me, and to whom I was accountable. I think the accountability bit is very important.
After 4 years of prayer and striving, I decided to leave my church. While there weren’t any significant theological and doctrinal issues, #1) the doctrine of female pastors was disregarded. #2 the denomination “left me” long ago when they adopted a more “Andy Stanley”/“Joyce Meyer” approach to theology and doctrine. In other words, the pastor is okay with a “based on a true story” versus rightly-dividing the Word of truth and striving to exposit scripture so-as to both feed the flock *and* properly present the gospel. #3 I would have to disagree with Todd here in terms of praise and worship music. Because the Bible is presented in a “based on a true story” fashion, the worship music chosen is as limp as a soggy cornflake. It too was “based on a true story.” What’s more is that all worship music chosen could be heard on Christian radio more for its wide familiarity (people know the words) rather than it being grounded in good scriptural teaching. All said, it was getting to the point where I was sick to my stomach every Sunday. I found a church where doctrine is taught expository-style (through the Bible), women are uplifted and edified by the fact that they are forbidden from pastoring, and all worship music is scrutinized and selected for its biblical grounding and vertical praise. All music is to be anti-humanistic, and pro-Christ, and none of it comes from Christian radio, so no one is too familiar with it. In this way, we are forced to think about what we’re singing. That’s the kind of church I will attend from now until Jesus comes. No more of the lukewarm fluffy garbage.
I'm betting the music was such a large sticking point mostly because it fanned the flames of the bad Andy/Joyce theology you were getting (since those stations usually subscribe to the same). But if it was truly bothering you after prayer, it's very good that you left. I can enjoy the music if it isn't full of straight unsound doctrine (for me "Reckless Love" is probably at the top of the unsound list)...I can also see why some would not want it sung in church, and I'd be fine by that as well for their sake. In the parlance of Romans 14, I'm comfortable eating the meat and thinking God for it, but I'm happy to support a brother who also chooses not to eat for the same convictions. Lukwarm is a problem no matter how you slice it, but it goes way deeper than the music.
@@jasonatkinson2898 I appreciated reading what you guys have laid down here. Your reply to Dustin Seloover. I've been involved in ministry since college, music, teaching, and preacing. At 67 im still just as active. Pop Christianity is a field of shallowness and junk food for the soul. The late British minister D. Martyn Lloyd - Jones reiterated how important expository preaching is to the church. I love good biblically sound praise and worship, but the body of believers must hear sound doctrine preached by holy men of God. The bible interprets itself, and if we hear grounded men preaching Jesus Only, we are doing as the Master has called us to do.
I agree overall this video with Todd is on point. But if I recall Paul Washer used a verse from Leviticus 10 to demonstrate why we need to be careful of how we worship.
Myself, a female on the pulpit is not enough for me to not be interested. I'm a truth seeker and not gender seeker. There are those in ministry who are truth in both genders and false in both genders. Now, if it was a natural born trying to become a gender they are not, that is an absolute different thing. Then I'm gone! And not fast enough. I rather a female who speaks in love and in gentle truth than a male who avoids subject of sin and does not speak in truth but instead ear tickling.
@@laurao8099 AMEN. 🙏 I believe God uses everyone for His purpose. That's not where I necessarily draw my line, but the female pastors I have known have been found wanting. However, Christian women, in general, have so much to give and offer as members of Believers in Christ.
Todd, it’s so hard to find a good fellowship. There such lack of sound doctrine leadership. I’ve gone to a good home-group for 7years. And I attend a Bible study. No one to pastor. Thank God for the word, Holy Spirit and Body of Christ.
Very sad that your friends won’t listen to you. I guess my question is, do they read their Bibles?. If they are then I expect that they’ll leave of their own accord. If not then all you can do is keep trying to make them understand why you want the, to leave it.
I have to say, in my church, the priest and leaders says don't leave the church because of parishioners, be active in the church community, the church is love....however, I have seen everything BUT that. I have been trying to join the church community for a year now, I have been told to go elsewhere, been stared at, been mocked and treated overall badly by many of the inner parishioners. Honestly, at the point that people people become overly comfortable, you know it becomes a club rather than a place that is supposed to support the community and deepen one's faith. At this point, I go to church for Jesus and just sit there and nod when the priest lectures us about this because I refuse to be blamed for nothing. I did my part.
Dropped in at our church office this week and a woman had just called the secretary to tell her she and her husband were feeling led by God to go to another church; she didn't discuss with the pastor who was there and would have talked to her; she didn't express any complaints; nor did she elaborate that there was a ministry they felt called to be involved in. In a word, it sounded like a matter of personal preference and she wasn't willing to say so. In our area there is a huge amount of new housing development so we are accustomed to "shoppers" and try to be welcoming and friendly. I commented that I would never leave my church unless there was an unbiblical issue unresolved. This has been my church home for 35 years. My heart would be broken if I had to make that choice but I would. So many Christians now are facing this serious issue and feeling the need to leave their denominational home. God shake up this USA to Your Truth before it is too late.
I left the church I was attending because I raised concerns about the enforced stickeroo at a Bible study, and the pastor absolutely would not listen to any of my reasoning. Before that, when some govt leaders came out with their threatening guidance / stern advice, this pastor quickly closed up, saying he would “check with lawyers to see what we can do”. Not check with GOD, but checking with men! He bragged that he and his wife went and got themselves poked right away, proud of it! He had also talked about his ‘edibles’ and his gun. I had a strong conviction that secret sin blinds a person so that they cannot see what is happening right in front of them. That is the only explanation that made sense to me as to why he couldn’t see. He’d joke about growing up on the street and being tough, and ran his church like a gang. His sermons are all touchy feely now. I did not speak against him to anyone, not wanting to split the church. I was not quiet about the threat of the stickeroo. I still won’t be quiet. What good is a watchman that doesn’t shout the alarm?
I recently left my church for reason #4. We got a new pastor a few years ago and he was good but within the last year or so, he seems to be going down the charismatic road. The main problem I have is he was telling the congregation we should lift our hands in worship or during prayer we should pray crying, be loud, etc. He cherry picks passages to give reasoning for his suggestions/demands. It essentially becomes a divisive issue and breeds the Haves and Have Nots. I'm done with the theatrics.
A lot of places I went to didn't know how to worship, it was more like entertainment. The wives were co-pastors. God did say the famine would be for spiritual food the Word of God.
Please don’t leave any church, especially a small church, without explaining to the leaders WHY you are leaving, This can be done in person or via letter. Also, follow the procedure stated in the church by-laws, covenant, or whatever membership agreement you committed to when you first joined.
When a church plays psychological games on you, it's tantamount to abuse. I was asked multiple times if I was a Messianic Jew or constantly questioned on my doctrine of salvation by grace. A lot of other weird things happened there. I disagree about not telling anyone about issues with a church. Our home church my family eventually left, the leadership of that church systematically left when a new pastor came in, but would tell no one why out of that fear. Come to find out the pastor was insane later by the elders that left the church years afterward when everyone was bold enough to finally say something. He would micromanage everything, told people not to go past a star on a platform because it was "his" area. Yet the preaching was "biblical" and he touted biblical authority on anyone that disagreed with him. In my opinion, the American church is near death. Only a remanent will remain.
Yes,only a remnants will remain. Being led of the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead is a big problem. Churches seem to be either hyper grace or mega religious.. where is the Spirit of Truth? I guess He is waiting to be invited
Todd, I'd love to hear your opinion about what I went thru in my early 20's. I was going to a church and I learned there that I could play drums. (I'm gonna make a really long story pretty short here.) Began playing with the most anointed praise team I have ever personally seen. When we played, we worshipped. Practice sessions were better since we didn't get hindered. Anyway, the Pastor began.... I'm really not sure. He was losing money and it seemed like he believed it was because there was sin in the church. He learned that I smoked cigarettes. (I was of age so I really can't understand why it was so bad to him, on top of that I was trying to quit.) He never said anything to me but we had a small ... uh, occurrence that made me notice he didn't really like me. He eyed me up and down and wouldn't speak to me. He came out with contracts that stated if we wanted to be part of the church, we had to expunge all sin from our lives or else it would be made known to the congregation. I wasn't sure but I knew he had something planned for me, to embarrass me. I know I messed up. I was young and kind of ignorant to a lot of things. But if he would have just talked to me about it, he would have known that habits and even addictions were dropping off of me like dead flies and God was really working with me. I couldn't sign the contract. It tore me up so badly and still does. I have never felt as close to my Jesus as I did when I played drums for Him. And I don't understand why it was taken from me. The whole week before we met and learned about the new contracts, "Let not your heart be troubled" kept coming up inside of my inner spirit but I didn't understand why. I messed up. I became so, SO troubled. It kind of ruined my life as I knew it and I've never been the same. I still believe in Jesus with everything in me. But I haven't been able to go back to church.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My words of "wisdom" here might seem shallow, but I sincerely offer them. Please consider that this pastor is/was just another fallen person - same as you and I. It can be so easy to put pastors up on pedestals and expect them to be so much better than we are. But Jesus died for his sins too! A church is a place for sinners saved by grace to gather - it includes the pastor. We all need to be in fellowship with the Body of Christ. You simply cannot honor Christ and dishonor His Bride. I hope, and pray, you'll find your way back to a church soon. This weekend is Palm Sunday - go and sing some glorious hosannas with a congregation of believers! It will do your heart good. 💞
Everything Todd says is quite correct. I was in a Church for 5½ years. One of the elders preached on head-covering for three Sunday but falsified details, got other facts wrong and basically told other lies besides. I confronted him and he didn't speak to me for another year. In our final meeting I asked him if he thought his was superior to all other denominations, he said it WAS. I thought "We're done here!" I never went back. That was just ONE of the issues. There was a serious "herd-mentality" in the place. People just looked at the elders as somehow infallible and I (of course) had to speak a few things from the Bible that just rocked their apple cart. I was also being ostracised. Don't get me wrong! I still think of them as good people and have friends there to this day but, for the last 1½ years, the ONLY thing that kept me in the place was the verse "Do not forsake the assembly of saints as some are in the habit of doing!"
No heresy but my church is an Assembly of God church and they’ve gotten quite fond of supernatural and lots of prophesy. I get that gut feeling. They even charge $75 for an appt for spiritual healing. I’m considering another church.
I left the church I was going to after moving states because the preacher made it clear that he cared more about his social media following than people, and began promoting prosperity preaching. I did try to email him, but he ignored my message, so I left. Now I’m in a smaller church and after two months I already feel more connected with the people, and am getting way more spiritually fed.
The only reformed church in my city took the opportunity after covid lockdowns to become a charismatic church, they even did renovations, rotating the sanctuary a full 90 degrees to reflect the change in direction, I suppose. Now they are all up there talking in tongues. The best I could do was sit until the end of the service.
@@eddieboggs8306 these guys were all around me, murmuring gibberish in corporate prayer. They had a main worship and praise vocalist in a cocktail dress up to her mid thigh, with slits up both sides so her hips were showing. Her backup vocalist sat in the pew across from me and texted on her phone for the duration of a pitiful service that included a movie about missionaries, and not one moment did the roaming pastor stand in the pulpit and read the Word. I lived with an Evangelical Pentecostal pastor in high school, and they did a version of the tongues trick where one man would jump up and let a bunch of it out, and then sit down, and someone else would calmly stand to allegedly interpret it, so they had 1 Corinthians 14 covered. It was enough to make me skeptical of God. The faith healer was the final straw. - I dedicated the next 15 years to proving that Christianity was wrong, but my arms were too short to box with God.
The last two churches i attended and served faithfully each for many years disappeared suddenly and without warning, leaving me heartbroken and alone. Both imploded due to the lead pastor’s sinful behavior in their marriages. I have not gone back to a church since. I want to but I’m not sure I can go through that trauma again. 😢
Start visiting churches in your area. Don't get your hopes up, just see what's available. Ask the Lord to lead you to where He wants you to root in. Don't forsake the assembly!
4 core values I look for in a church Proclomation of the gospel Preeminence of Christ Purity of doctrine Proper treatment of our brothers and sisters in Christ
Pretty hilarious I had to watch a Mormon missionary ad to get to this video… where Todd tells people to RUN from a pastor that says “maybe Joseph smith was a prophet” 😅
TODD: Is the term “Prayer Warrior” a new modern, evangelical, etc., term? Or is there really such a thing? I was told by our preacher that to be a Prayer Warrior is a gift. I disagree. All Christian’s are called to pray intercessory prayers and to pray without ceasing. Please explain to me if I am wrong. Thank you!
That term is an evangelical construct. While Jesus is shown praying for extended periods of time, "praying without ceasing" doesn't mean a Christian is obligated to spend all hours of the day prayer. What it means is that a Christian should always be ready to pray at any given moment or to be in the consistent habit of praying regularly.
Friends left over lack of last days teaching but my church is sound.All things in Bible important,nothing really more important than other,Bible is woven together. Moving to another location is very legitimate,I told previous church I was moving and did enjoy their fellowship but wanted to move to go back to place of roots!!!
My church growing up had a focus on youth and young adults with hardly anything for the adults. People complained about it, then some suggested, "nothing is stopping you from heading up those programs". They left.
We left a “purpose driven” church where the pastor was proclaiming visions over the church he said God gave him. We voiced our concerns with the pastor privately. He got angry. And that’s when we decided to leave. And we got some phone calls from our Sunday school mates. People were hurt and confused. People we dearly loved and and it hurt to leave them. And some of them were angry and hurt that we left and we tried as best as we could to explain. And then.. a year or two later, we had phone calls come trickling in from those same people profusely apologizing and saying “Oohhh! We see it now! We see exactly what you were talking about.” Some of them then followed us to our new church home and we see them all the time again now. People love their churches and their pastors and sometimes it makes it very hard when those little errors start becoming big errors to see it for what it is. But keep praying for your friends and family. God will show them in his own time just like he did for you.
I left the missionary Baptist after I started listening to RC.Sproul (not because he said so) I was looking for theology that he was teaching and wanted to learn the Westminster confession.
We just left our church for several reasons that had been gnawing at me. Firstly, they tend to put women in pastoral roles, which is okay if they are ministering to women or children, but they should not have authority over men or be called "Pastor." Secondly, they are always asking for tithes and claiming that not tithing ten percent is somehow "robbing God." Thirdly, the praise and worship music is more like a pop music concert than worship music. No one else can even sing along because the worship team is trying to sound like Mariah Carey. Fourth, one of the members on the worship team keeps getting married and divorced and remarried again. No one in the church elders seem to mind. Fifth, and final reason, and this one might just be a pet peeve of mine, but some of the men during the service wear baseball hats and cowboy hats, and to me, that's irreverent. If you take your hat off during the National Anthem, you should definitely remove it when worshipping God. It just seemed very watered down and not strict enough for me. They do that because they don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable unless it is about tithes and offerings. Then uncomfortable is fine, I guess.
This is good I agree. I just became a lead / elder at my church so I thought this would be a good video to watch. My church definitely passes the test.
@@TheBamaguy334 i agree. I don't think it is wrong to have a denomination but I don't think we should condemn those of others. All that matters is if we are true Christians or not. I don't believe it is wrong to go to a church that has a denomination though just Don't stick only to that one denomination. Stick to the bibles truths
@@Vitamortis. depends on hoe you look at it if you think only 1 denomination is going to heaven then there is a issue. My view is we are all one in Christ no matter what denomination you are.
I left my church because they had a woman co-pastor, (Paul said he does not permit a woman to teach or excerpt authority over a man in the church setting), they had a false graven image of Jesus (breaking the second commandment), and when my brother wasnt giving a tithe (10%) the elders confronted him and said they were (worried about him.) Clearly all the cared about was our money. Best to leave and not be deceived by money hungry preachers.
Can be either, but probably only the Shepherd can determine that. There is only one true Shepherd, and all we like sheep, including pastors and leaders that are to serve the flock instead of ruling the flock.
Another possible reason to leave: no plurality of elders. One elder makes all decisions. Many problems come from this, which is why Scripture teaches a plurality of leaders and not one man on his own.
this is a great video. I have been going to the same church for about ten years, and its not the same church. Its conformed to the new age movement, and I can honestly say the last several times I've gone I have heard the Gospel maybe 2 times and and the Law not one time. The churches saying is "Its okay to not be okay" but the reality is you can't stay that way. Not to mention having female pastors and guest speakers who don't even know scripture and take it out of context.
We left a church with a controlling pastor and who loves to talk about himself, wife, rich kids in his sermons. At end of sermon he says “This pastor loves you”. How about telling people that Jesus loves them but I guess its all about the pastor.
I left my church: the senior pastor shut down church one sunday because of the Seahawks, yep u read right, the first day of the Seahaws and more ppl confronted our pastor about not having service that sunday morning and he stated that there were more ppl wanting to stay home for that day so with long debate ( REALLY!!) he decided not to have church that day..😡, 2nd reason senior pastor really likes Rick Warren, he cares alot for him and really likes his preaching🤯( his words not mine) also I asked the pastor if he would pray with me about something that I was very much conerned with and he hesitiated in doing so but did, he stated that my prayers was good enuff( yes they are but I needed to talk) and he i guess normally doesnt pray one one one..🤷🏼♀️ but he did, maybe he saw my tears, idk and last one, one sunday service was on the complaints from some of the congregation who had went to the pastor whining about how people on Facebook yes you read that right Facebook whining about how people were attacking people about their political views so yes when service was about " not attacking people on Facebook" and he was comparing it to some of the scriptures using scripture to show to the congregation that others should never attack people on social media i was floored!!😖😤 I miss going to church I miss Gathering I miss the music and I'm searching it's been so difficult to find a church especially here in Washington state we're practically every church that I'm aware of does not teach the true doctrine of the gospels of Jesus Christ......deep sigh😔 but God is good he will lead me in the meantime i listen to a few men... John MacArthur ,Steven Lawson and a few others, so thats why I left my church.
Have you tried using any of church finder databases? I think the master’s seminary (affiliated with GCC and J Mac) has one. G3 ministries has a database. 9 Marks has one but not sure how trustworthy it is. Many churches these days have a church website and you can listen to the sermons and that could be helpful to see if it is a good church.
Thank you Todd. We are getting close to moving on, but we are trying to use the Biblical method of bringing correction first. Our pastor isn't preaching Scripture (exergesis), but is preaching his personal opinion and tradition (eisegesis). But they are at least in correct standing on theological positions, so we are desperately trying to get the issues fixed. They really have been preaching works and law, rather than grace. We are trying to be as respectful as possible. Slow prayerful process.
I guess it's time for me to do some church shopping because even though my church keeps the deity of the Trinity I don't hear them talk as much about sin as I used to and repentance. I have not seen how they deal with people when there is sin in the church. The church seems lukewarm and I have been going there for about 10 mos.
I am right here with you. And I am so involved in serving. I love the congregation but am hungry for spiritual growth through strong expository preaching focused on discipleship.
I'm curious about the church I go to. They are very standoffish, and don't really welcome outsiders. You have to kind of prove yourself to them. They started to talk to me a very little bit after about a month. The preacher would say hello to almost everyone there but then just walk by me like I wasn't there. In his sermon he said if this happens to not be offended it is to test where you are in your spirit and is "very protective of his flock.". Is this right? I kind of understand but I think about how I see people only come once and not come back. Am I being too sensitive?
Nah, I started going to a new church two months ago and the congregation has been nothing but welcoming as we kept returning. The pastor never ignores people and says hi to everyone he bumps into, and makes an effort to get to know his flock.
Our church is fairly large, but the pastor makes a time (and announces it during the service) for new visitors to stop and meet he and his wife. He specifically asks others to avoid encroaching on this set aside time, so the new folks can feel welcomed.
Topical-but-biblical churches are great for new believers still growing in their faith. Milk and bread... but for spiritually mature believers, they're eventually gonna need some meat. It is very possible to spiritually outgrow a church and there's nothing wrong with that. Find a pastor who can tend to your spiritual needs at whatever stage you are currently at in your faith.
I don't understand why we can't have services available any day of the week...just Saturday or just Sunday isn't enough and people just settle with it...
Hey Wretched crew! I don't understand what's being said about Hillsong/Bethel etc. After watching the video, they are definitely out of orthodoxy, and they've got more egg on their face after the Hillsong documentary since that video was published. I understand that pastors should urge their churches away from it, and certainly worship leaders should get away from it. But you also mention them under the "not reasons to leave" bit. Should church members abscond from their church if they play it? Should they warn their pastors, and if they don't turn from Hillsong and friends, then leave? Stick around even if they stick to it? Yes, no, maybe so?
I also agree with your concerns here. Personally I now refrain from all of their music and I regularly discuss it with others and tell them to do the same. As you've stated there has been so much that's came out now regarding them and it is easy to learn what's wrong. I know that many try to say they can listen to the theologically sound songs and dismiss the others, and I'm sure that some can, but most can't and it seems like it could be a slippery slope for the masses if "you" are playing their music and the masses don't know or don't care to take the time figuring out what's harmful. And worst case, the masses (not the exceptions) could blanket listen to their whole library's as well as maybe assume the churches and "pastors" they are a part of are okay. Hopefully my rant made sense. Thank you. Be blessed
I get the points. I am quite sound in my theology, and enjoy some of their music. I'd rather listen to Hillsong than some offensive to my sensibilities "mainstream" stuff, at least it gets me thinking about God and His majesty. I also get that those of weaker/newer faith could think that playing music from these groups is an implicit endorsement of their theology. Some songs ("Reckless Love", etc.) just make me turn the station though. If my church played it, I'd probably raise the concern, but if they're teaching sound doctrine I can abide some things.
Really grateful for your post seeking clarification. I could have done a better job stating: as a rule musical preference should not be the sole reason for leaving your church, but worship from Hillsong, Elevation, and Bethel can be grounds for leaving. Please see our video with Justin Peters encouraging pastors to not allow worship songs from those aberrant churches. Thanks again, Brennan.
There is only one reason to either join a particular congregation in worship and ministry or leave a congregation ! That reason is God leading one in that particular direction. After becoming a blood-bought, born-again, child of God God and the Holy Spirit baptized me in a particular church yet needing to grow in the faith gifted me in Christ I found myself searching for deeper teaching and instruction. God allowed me to see that I was not going to receive that at that location. At the same time my wife became concerned about those same needs in her walk. God spoke to my heart and had me one Sunday, to go to the back of the church worship center and put my back against the wall to look out over that congregation and so this question: " Is this where you desire me to worship You! " The very clear answer was " NO" so only then did we leave. God then placed us in different local churches yet for His purposes. Sometimes it was a location for us to learn how it is not supposed to be done as opposed to His standards. ( too many money changers and so on. ) I have not since chosen a local congregation based on anything but God's prompting my wife and my obedience to follow Him alone in ourplace to be planted for His purposes. You may not like the location put before you but that is not the point! God wants to teach you, use you, grow you and that location may be His choice to do that in your life!
#6 - When Church leadership acts like a dictator toward the congregation. Leadership (pastor) has a my way or highway attitude. There is zero accountability in everything (especially finances) which causes many good people to leave. Independent Baptist churches come to mind because many pastors of these churches seem to think that they are above reproach. Almost a demigod attitude.
I often have trouble parsing out the deep theological issues from small ones (taking a passage out of context, not preaching the full extent of a topic like saying love is being kind and that's it). For me anything that is off, that's not a preference, is wrong. But one major theological issue with a previous church and then being told that "according to the membership contract you are to agree with the materials the elders put out or stay silent" in a Bible study context was too much.
I've heard the "graceful departure" point more times before, but, why? If there are serious doctrinal issues to the point of leaving orthodoxy, aren't we supposed to warn others, ie, not leave silently?
What about if a female preacher occassionally fills in for the pastor when he is on vacation? This is the biggest thing that bugs me. There's nothing at all personal, it's solely a conflict with what Paul says in the New Testament.
Bring up these scriptures to the pastor. (1 Timothy 2:9-15, 1 Corinthians 14:33-40) If they dismiss you or try to justify their disobedience to the scriptures, I would leave. To me, this is not a secondary issue. I have left 2 churches already because of this. I do encourage you to seek the Lord before deciding though. Blessings in Christ.
im confused about Hillsongs I’ve heard they blaspheme i believe… but the day I surrendered to Christ in 2016 and finally understood what repentance meant i was listening to (Hillsongs - I surrender) i didnt understand what i was listening to until an understanding hit me like a bolt of lightning i was unable to move and i cried and heard the Lord tell me to go repent… the feeling was conviction, sternness, strong yet gentle. I don’t believe i know God used the song to get through to me.
Remember that Judas was sent out to preach and baptize people right along with the other disciples. The sovereignty of God means He can use whatever means He wills to draw us to Himself. But that doesn't make Hillsong something we should support. Hope that helps. 💞 Oh, and by the way, it does not invalidate your salvation! You were saved by the blood of Christ Jesus - not Hillsong music. 👍 Be strong, keep the faith! 👍
I would say no, but not because of the money changers in the temple. That story was about selling salvation (you needed a lamb to sacrifice, so they sold areas of the temple to profit off of people seeking God). Merchandise is different because you don't need to buy the merchandise to be a member of the church or to receive God's grace. However, I would caution against this practice because 1. It could look bad. 2. It could distract from the mission of the church (people worshipping God and hearing+proclaiming the Gospel). 3. It takes away from the opportunity of people to GIVE, showing they trust God, not their money and to love Him and His people.
I attend a church that i think is so solid and I feel they've proved that in the short time since I began attending, but I found out they have a few women on their elder/deacon team. They aren't pastors in any way but they're deacons at least. Is this one of those things that could be a disagreement to let go or should I run forest run
I think it's time I left my church. They have a female that holds the title pastor (kids pastor); they had a female recently deliver the sermon and we are constantly singing Hillsong, Elevation and Bethel songs in worship. That's 3 strikes. Am I wrong to be determined to leave?
The best way to go about moving to another gathering of the saints is to make sure your reasons are justified by scripture and to make two attempts at resolving your issues because you might be able to save the situation and by authority of scripture edify your elders to bring them back into line with God's word their for having no need to move on , proverbs 9:8-11 shows a blessing on rebuking your elders for error. But after 2 attempts and they don't harken unto wise counsel ( the bible ) just leave politely and when you have time pray for them.
I heard a pastor say that if you do not tithe then you are under a curse. This church should hold 100 - 200 people but usually has 20 - 30 on Sundays, no children church or Sunday school and only a few youth attend. Men meet once a month for breakfast but I don't know if the women do or if there are any other ministries but i don't think there is. I was told by this pastor they tried a neighborhood outreach but nobody came. It's sad. Are these reasons enough to leave and seek another church?
@@gigiis526 Tithing is not an "OT law". Jesus very clearly stated in Matt. 5:17 that He _didn't_ come to oppose the authority of the Law or the Prophets. He couldn't have been clearer about this by quoting Deut. 8:3 against Satan in Matt. 4 where He says man is to live by _every_ word that came from God.
Any views on a women co-pastor, and a young women elder, this is one of the issues I'm facing and reason I'm considering moving to a more solid church, am I being legalist?
What about a church that is not a soul winning church? Is distance an issue? You have to understand remote rural areas to appreciate this. What about a church with no leadership - only pulpit supply?
Todd you say it’s fine to leave a church if it feeds your family better? What if you’re a single man who’s hopeful to meet a woman and get married? Is that a valid reason to look for another church if there’s none at your current church??
Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. Your primary focus should be on God, not the potential future wives available in the church.
Allen Parr has a well made and informative video on the SDA church. I'd steer clear though, Ellen G White, who is like their prophet, has said some very questionable and downright heretical things. There are better options out there I don't doubt that.
I have a theory. The reason our country and society reek right now is that sanctification is no no longer taught. Salt free society. Bring back sanctification training!
Good stuff! Although I would be a "sheep stealer" if I was leaving because of 1 of your 5 issues. I wouldn't want anyone else to be getting false teachings.
My wife and I recently left our church for all the right reasons mentioned by Todd. The main reason we left is because the leadership is now intentionally recruiting non-believers to serve in the church. We talked at great length with the elders, showing them from God's Word the dangers and warnings of this "new" philosophy. We also left because I was teaching against false teachers and churches such as Hillsong, Elevation & Bethel and I was severely reprimanded for teaching against false teachers and teachings.
My son doesn't know who he listens too, some guy on internet, cause he say good stuff, thank you for standing up for the truth , my son said why do they say that about Joyce and Steven
@@NormanChester882 Hopefully it's not Allan Parr because I'm the recent past he's started to make concessions with Biblical truths he's taught in the past for the sake of being kind to everyone. One obvious example is he recently posted a video of him singing worship songs by Elevation, Bethel, and Passion "ministries." Also, Joyce and Steven have a lot of things that Biblical Christians need to be very careful of, or better yet to stay away from them completely. They both preach the prosperity "gospel", little gods "theology", modern day "prophets" and "apostles." Sadly many things actually. If you're willing to take the time, the false doctrines of the both of them are easily searchable.
@@Mojo32 to be fair in the video Allen Parr did say that just because he likes the worship song doesn’t mean he agrees with the church that it came from.
@@kayhamilton3947 Yep you're correct 👍, and I commend him for making that comment. Unfortunately I was saddened when he posted that video though as prior to it I had been a follower of his channel for quite awhile and learned so much from him and his ministry. I remember some of his past videos regarding the exact topic and names and was a bit disappointed when he was singing their music, because he had explained before how although SOME of their songs could be theologically sound it could still be an issue supporting their "ministries."
When you question the so-called leaders and the questions are valid (short range/long range plans, and to see the finance records) and they refuse to answer or say one of the 12 leaders will tell you want we want you to know, then tell you not to come back, it is time to leave.
I disagree. I have hit almost every single church in my area. There is nothing more important than your relationship with Christ. If Pastors, Elders, or others get in your way-find another church or 3.
Yeah, all these topics are traditional topics. The context of these types of church guidelines were really meant for people who had little to no access to information, hence the preacher. His job was to inform and inspire via information he has researched and makes a part of his job. However, things have changed in terms of access. Preachers aren't the only one with access to information. We are in the information age. People need to seek not be spoken to about what to do with their lives hence removing the authoritative state. If you come together socially, yes you don't want bad apples in any social context, so yes they need to be dealt with directly, but that's not a bible verse requirement. That's just common sense. But individuals no longer need to be under the thumb of authoritarianism as they are truly responsible for gathering their own information and code of conduct. The information age has truly set us free. We don't need no education...We don't need no thought control....
If your pastor says he won’t send you out to preach as a pastor because you were divorced years ago to a wife that wanted out because she was cheating and didn’t want to stop and I did remarry is that a reason to leave especially when I’ve been called to preach but won’t be able to in this church/fellowship church
As a rule, musical preference should not be the *sole* reason for leaving your church, but worship from Hillsong, Elevation, and Bethel can be grounds for leaving. Please see our video with Justin Peters encouraging pastors to not allow worship songs from those aberrant churches. ruclips.net/video/Y0uFSYHVSRk/видео.html
I just couldn't stand 1/2 hour or more of that "worship music", but worse than that was the fact that the pastors swayed with every wind of doctrine. They had waded into the "hyper-grace" slumgullion for a while, and then the last time I went, they had bought into the "Open Table" apostasy, and invited everyone, specifying all unbelievers, as well, to partake of Holy Communion, effectively encouraging them to illness and possible death!
1 Corinthians 11: 27-30. "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."
The pastor who seems to lead the the way into these breezes and gales is a guy who injects "IT'S ALL GOOD!" into every conversation, oblivious to the fact he's directly contradicting the Biblical stance, and by that lie making the gospel unnecessary. The other pastor often gave great sermons, but used the NIV, which sounds like chalk on a blackboard to me.
The biggest reason I left my last church was because they were seeking a “Toronto Blessing” type of outpouring. They talked more about healing than Jesus, and never mentioned sin. I believe this to be a major issue and it covers more than heretical teaching.
What to do I the church has a husband/wife both “Pastors” issue. She preaches from pulpit…. How to handle this issue?
I have a genuine question: Why do so many churches have so many husband and wife pastors? Is it necessary? Why is this trend so popular? Con, Australia.
@@conartist267 The husband/wife pastors are simply building their own little kingdoms instead of God's kingdom, it is not biblical to have women pastors, period. I would never submit to the spiritual authority of any woman pastor ever, it is highly unbiblical.
In this day and age, there are more false teachers than good ones. I'm so glad for the church I go to.
Amen. Godly, biblical grounded, humble but bold preachers are fewer. Jesus warned it would be that way prior to His appearing.
Yes i attend a church where God is lifted up and no compromising of scripture..so thankful
As an unequally yoked military wife, I've been responsible for finding a new church after relocating many, many times (I was saved 3 years into my 30 year marriage, now widowed). Over these years, I've left several churches after just a few visits - while still "shopping" in a new town. Only 3 times have I felt led to leave a church that was "my" church. It wasn't easy, at times I felt like I was being overly critical and judgmental. In hind sight, I see clearly that my concerns were quite valid and there were serious problems. Thank you for this list Todd (and team Wretched), it is a message that needs to be heard.
That clip of grandma yelling at Todd is golden. Put that in on every episode 🤣
Great video, Todd. I love the "rules" at the end. My family moved congregations 2 years ago after being members for 16 years. Tough decision, but necessary. We left with the blessing of the Pastor and leadership and left nothing but friendships. We vowed to never steal sheep or be guilty to talking negatively about our brothers and sisters still there. Leave only when necessary, and leave the right way!
I left the wrong way when I was younger, from a church and more immature in the faith, but I did end up currently at a good church.
When our church introduced a female pastor, I knew it was time to go. There had been MANY issues prior to that, but female pastor was the straw that broke the camel's back. Now we go to a solid, Bible teaching, theologically sound church and are growing and learning more than we ever thought possible.
Exactly, anyone female can be in a place of authority over other females (older women teach the younger); but, not over any man!
Why? As the bride of Messiah we are never to put ourselves above Him! He didn't call any women as emissaries (apostles), just as there were no female priests, ever!
@@mattityahubentzur6220 Mattityahu, if that's your real name, I'd guess you're a Messianic Jew. Bless you!
However, your argument that women may lead and teach other women, but not men, because that would be like the Bride of Messiah putting herself above Yeshua (Jesus), is nonsense! Believing MEN are also part of the Bride, so does that put them above the Groom?
Please see my post from yesterday, and open your mind to what the Bible actually says, as opposed to what you've been told it says, or would like to think it says. Although Yeshua called 12 men to be the first Emissaries/Apostles to found the church, reflecting the 12 sons of Yacov (Jacob) who founded the 12 tribes of Israel, there is at least one reference to a female apostle (small 'a') in the New Testament. Her name was Junia, not JuniaS as in some translations. The male form of the name was unknown in the 1st century. (Rom.16:7)
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@@jennyyates8798 Do you know of any female pastor-led church that hasn't slid down the progressive cliff?
@@lkae4 Yes, I do know of female pastor-led churches that haven't 'slid down the progressive cliff' - the two churches that I led for a start! I always upheld and taught traditional evangelical doctrine, including a literal understanding of Genesis 1-11. And I know of other such churches too. (In the UK)
However, let me make this clear. I believe the biblical model is that a local church should be led, not by one paid professional, of whichever gender, but by a team, and that team should include people of both sexes. Although I was the only paid pastor (both my churches were small, and I had to work within the system) I always had both men and women on the leadership team, helping and supporting me, and to whom I was accountable. I think the accountability bit is very important.
@@jennyyates8798 UK? Were you under the Church of England?
After 4 years of prayer and striving, I decided to leave my church. While there weren’t any significant theological and doctrinal issues,
#1) the doctrine of female pastors was disregarded.
#2 the denomination “left me” long ago when they adopted a more “Andy Stanley”/“Joyce Meyer” approach to theology and doctrine. In other words, the pastor is okay with a “based on a true story” versus rightly-dividing the Word of truth and striving to exposit scripture so-as to both feed the flock *and* properly present the gospel.
#3 I would have to disagree with Todd here in terms of praise and worship music. Because the Bible is presented in a “based on a true story” fashion, the worship music chosen is as limp as a soggy cornflake. It too was “based on a true story.” What’s more is that all worship music chosen could be heard on Christian radio more for its wide familiarity (people know the words) rather than it being grounded in good scriptural teaching.
All said, it was getting to the point where I was sick to my stomach every Sunday. I found a church where doctrine is taught expository-style (through the Bible), women are uplifted and edified by the fact that they are forbidden from pastoring, and all worship music is scrutinized and selected for its biblical grounding and vertical praise. All music is to be anti-humanistic, and pro-Christ, and none of it comes from Christian radio, so no one is too familiar with it. In this way, we are forced to think about what we’re singing. That’s the kind of church I will attend from now until Jesus comes. No more of the lukewarm fluffy garbage.
I'm betting the music was such a large sticking point mostly because it fanned the flames of the bad Andy/Joyce theology you were getting (since those stations usually subscribe to the same). But if it was truly bothering you after prayer, it's very good that you left. I can enjoy the music if it isn't full of straight unsound doctrine (for me "Reckless Love" is probably at the top of the unsound list)...I can also see why some would not want it sung in church, and I'd be fine by that as well for their sake. In the parlance of Romans 14, I'm comfortable eating the meat and thinking God for it, but I'm happy to support a brother who also chooses not to eat for the same convictions.
Lukwarm is a problem no matter how you slice it, but it goes way deeper than the music.
@@jasonatkinson2898 I appreciated reading what you guys have laid down here. Your reply to Dustin Seloover. I've been involved in ministry since college, music, teaching, and preacing. At 67 im still just as active. Pop Christianity is a field of shallowness and junk food for the soul. The late British minister D. Martyn Lloyd - Jones reiterated how important expository preaching is to the church. I love good biblically sound praise and worship, but the body of believers must hear sound doctrine preached by holy men of God. The bible interprets itself, and if we hear grounded men preaching Jesus Only, we are doing as the Master has called us to do.
I agree overall this video with Todd is on point. But if I recall Paul Washer used a verse from Leviticus 10 to demonstrate why we need to be careful of how we worship.
Myself, a female on the pulpit is not enough for me to not be interested. I'm a truth seeker and not gender seeker. There are those in ministry who are truth in both genders and false in both genders. Now, if it was a natural born trying to become a gender they are not, that is an absolute different thing. Then I'm gone! And not fast enough.
I rather a female who speaks in love and in gentle truth than a male who avoids subject of sin and does not speak in truth but instead ear tickling.
@@laurao8099 AMEN. 🙏 I believe God uses everyone for His purpose. That's not where I necessarily draw my line, but the female pastors I have known have been found wanting. However, Christian women, in general, have so much to give and offer as members of Believers in Christ.
I’d really appreciate a video on biblical church membership and discipline. Your point #2 is one I’m struggling with currently at the church I attend.
Todd, it’s so hard to find a good fellowship. There such lack of sound doctrine leadership. I’ve gone to a good home-group for 7years. And I attend a Bible study. No one to pastor. Thank God for the word, Holy Spirit and Body of Christ.
Praying for the friends that attend Saddleback. They don’t want to listen. I’ve been told “your Faith is different than my Faith” 😢
Very sad that your friends won’t listen to you. I guess my question is, do they read their Bibles?. If they are then I expect that they’ll leave of their own accord. If not then all you can do is keep trying to make them understand why you want the, to leave it.
Thanks for the video. Some good points there.
God bless you Todd and your ministry 🙏
I have to say, in my church, the priest and leaders says don't leave the church because of parishioners, be active in the church community, the church is love....however, I have seen everything BUT that. I have been trying to join the church community for a year now, I have been told to go elsewhere, been stared at, been mocked and treated overall badly by many of the inner parishioners. Honestly, at the point that people people become overly comfortable, you know it becomes a club rather than a place that is supposed to support the community and deepen one's faith. At this point, I go to church for Jesus and just sit there and nod when the priest lectures us about this because I refuse to be blamed for nothing. I did my part.
I think church reviews are really useful for finding a good church in an area.
Great hair cut brother Todd ☺.Thank you wretched as always!! Giving the right way for going to church 👍👏
Dropped in at our church office this week and a woman had just called the secretary to tell her she and her husband were feeling led by God to go to another church; she didn't discuss with the pastor who was there and would have talked to her; she didn't express any complaints; nor did she elaborate that there was a ministry they felt called to be involved in. In a word, it sounded like a matter of personal preference and she wasn't willing to say so. In our area there is a huge amount of new housing development so we are accustomed to "shoppers" and try to be welcoming and friendly. I commented that I would never leave my church unless there was an unbiblical issue unresolved. This has been my church home for 35 years. My heart would be broken if I had to make that choice but I would. So many Christians now are facing this serious issue and feeling the need to leave their denominational home. God shake up this USA to Your Truth before it is too late.
I left the church I was attending because I raised concerns about the enforced stickeroo at a Bible study, and the pastor absolutely would not listen to any of my reasoning. Before that, when some govt leaders came out with their threatening guidance / stern advice, this pastor quickly closed up, saying he would “check with lawyers to see what we can do”. Not check with GOD, but checking with men! He bragged that he and his wife went and got themselves poked right away, proud of it!
He had also talked about his ‘edibles’ and his gun.
I had a strong conviction that secret sin blinds a person so that they cannot see what is happening right in front of them. That is the only explanation that made sense to me as to why he couldn’t see.
He’d joke about growing up on the street and being tough, and ran his church like a gang. His sermons are all touchy feely now.
I did not speak against him to anyone, not wanting to split the church. I was not quiet about the threat of the stickeroo.
I still won’t be quiet. What good is a watchman that doesn’t shout the alarm?
What is a 'stickeroo'? I've never heard this term before.
@@Annie-49 Jib jab
@@GEOFF0906 Ohhhh.... right! I should have got that. It's a slow day. LOL Thanks for informing your slightly dim sister. 😊
I recently left my church for reason #4. We got a new pastor a few years ago and he was good but within the last year or so, he seems to be going down the charismatic road. The main problem I have is he was telling the congregation we should lift our hands in worship or during prayer we should pray crying, be loud, etc. He cherry picks passages to give reasoning for his suggestions/demands. It essentially becomes a divisive issue and breeds the Haves and Have Nots. I'm done with the theatrics.
A lot of places I went to didn't know how to worship, it was more like entertainment. The wives were co-pastors. God did say the famine would be for spiritual food the Word of God.
Please don’t leave any church, especially a small church, without explaining to the leaders WHY you are leaving, This can be done in person or via letter. Also, follow the procedure stated in the church by-laws, covenant, or whatever membership agreement you committed to when you first joined.
When a church plays psychological games on you, it's tantamount to abuse. I was asked multiple times if I was a Messianic Jew or constantly questioned on my doctrine of salvation by grace. A lot of other weird things happened there.
I disagree about not telling anyone about issues with a church. Our home church my family eventually left, the leadership of that church systematically left when a new pastor came in, but would tell no one why out of that fear. Come to find out the pastor was insane later by the elders that left the church years afterward when everyone was bold enough to finally say something. He would micromanage everything, told people not to go past a star on a platform because it was "his" area. Yet the preaching was "biblical" and he touted biblical authority on anyone that disagreed with him. In my opinion, the American church is near death. Only a remanent will remain.
Maybe they were just curious
@@christophertaylor9100 Nah. Been around long enough to read between the lines or what lines are read to me.
Yes,only a remnants
will remain. Being led of the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead is a big problem. Churches seem to be either hyper grace or mega religious.. where is the Spirit of Truth? I guess He is waiting to be invited
This is a tough topic. Ligonier did a whole conference on it back in the 90s, trying to work through this idea.
Todd, I'd love to hear your opinion about what I went thru in my early 20's. I was going to a church and I learned there that I could play drums. (I'm gonna make a really long story pretty short here.) Began playing with the most anointed praise team I have ever personally seen. When we played, we worshipped. Practice sessions were better since we didn't get hindered. Anyway, the Pastor began.... I'm really not sure. He was losing money and it seemed like he believed it was because there was sin in the church. He learned that I smoked cigarettes. (I was of age so I really can't understand why it was so bad to him, on top of that I was trying to quit.) He never said anything to me but we had a small ... uh, occurrence that made me notice he didn't really like me. He eyed me up and down and wouldn't speak to me. He came out with contracts that stated if we wanted to be part of the church, we had to expunge all sin from our lives or else it would be made known to the congregation. I wasn't sure but I knew he had something planned for me, to embarrass me. I know I messed up. I was young and kind of ignorant to a lot of things. But if he would have just talked to me about it, he would have known that habits and even addictions were dropping off of me like dead flies and God was really working with me. I couldn't sign the contract. It tore me up so badly and still does. I have never felt as close to my Jesus as I did when I played drums for Him. And I don't understand why it was taken from me. The whole week before we met and learned about the new contracts, "Let not your heart be troubled" kept coming up inside of my inner spirit but I didn't understand why. I messed up. I became so, SO troubled. It kind of ruined my life as I knew it and I've never been the same. I still believe in Jesus with everything in me. But I haven't been able to go back to church.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My words of "wisdom" here might seem shallow, but I sincerely offer them. Please consider that this pastor is/was just another fallen person - same as you and I. It can be so easy to put pastors up on pedestals and expect them to be so much better than we are. But Jesus died for his sins too! A church is a place for sinners saved by grace to gather - it includes the pastor. We all need to be in fellowship with the Body of Christ. You simply cannot honor Christ and dishonor His Bride. I hope, and pray, you'll find your way back to a church soon. This weekend is Palm Sunday - go and sing some glorious hosannas with a congregation of believers! It will do your heart good. 💞
Everything Todd says is quite correct.
I was in a Church for 5½ years. One of the elders preached on head-covering for three Sunday but falsified details, got other facts wrong and basically told other lies besides. I confronted him and he didn't speak to me for another year. In our final meeting I asked him if he thought his was superior to all other denominations, he said it WAS. I thought "We're done here!" I never went back. That was just ONE of the issues. There was a serious "herd-mentality" in the place. People just looked at the elders as somehow infallible and I (of course) had to speak a few things from the Bible that just rocked their apple cart.
I was also being ostracised. Don't get me wrong! I still think of them as good people and have friends there to this day but, for the last 1½ years, the ONLY thing that kept me in the place was the verse "Do not forsake the assembly of saints as some are in the habit of doing!"
What is the name of the church or denomination?
Good info. Thanks, Brother Todd!
No heresy but my church is an Assembly of God church and they’ve gotten quite fond of supernatural and lots of prophesy. I get that gut feeling. They even charge $75 for an appt for spiritual healing. I’m considering another church.
Oh dear...isn't that what Simon the sorcerer wanted apostles gifts for? Making money?
I left the church I was going to after moving states because the preacher made it clear that he cared more about his social media following than people, and began promoting prosperity preaching. I did try to email him, but he ignored my message, so I left. Now I’m in a smaller church and after two months I already feel more connected with the people, and am getting way more spiritually fed.
Sad he feels that,size of church doesn't matter.
The only reformed church in my city took the opportunity after covid lockdowns to become a charismatic church, they even did renovations, rotating the sanctuary a full 90 degrees to reflect the change in direction, I suppose. Now they are all up there talking in tongues. The best I could do was sit until the end of the service.
Paul called talking in toungs sounding brass and tinkling cymbals. He said you need at leat 2 interpreters to explain what was said.
@@eddieboggs8306 these guys were all around me, murmuring gibberish in corporate prayer. They had a main worship and praise vocalist in a cocktail dress up to her mid thigh, with slits up both sides so her hips were showing. Her backup vocalist sat in the pew across from me and texted on her phone for the duration of a pitiful service that included a movie about missionaries, and not one moment did the roaming pastor stand in the pulpit and read the Word.
I lived with an Evangelical Pentecostal pastor in high school, and they did a version of the tongues trick where one man would jump up and let a bunch of it out, and then sit down, and someone else would calmly stand to allegedly interpret it, so they had 1 Corinthians 14 covered. It was enough to make me skeptical of God. The faith healer was the final straw. - I dedicated the next 15 years to proving that Christianity was wrong, but my arms were too short to box with God.
The last two churches i attended and served faithfully each for many years disappeared suddenly and without warning, leaving me heartbroken and alone. Both imploded due to the lead pastor’s sinful behavior in their marriages. I have not gone back to a church since. I want to but I’m not sure I can go through that trauma again. 😢
Start visiting churches in your area. Don't get your hopes up, just see what's available. Ask the Lord to lead you to where He wants you to root in. Don't forsake the assembly!
4 core values I look for in a church
Proclomation of the gospel
Preeminence of Christ
Purity of doctrine
Proper treatment of our brothers and sisters in Christ
Pretty hilarious I had to watch a Mormon missionary ad to get to this video… where Todd tells people to RUN from a pastor that says “maybe Joseph smith was a prophet” 😅
Thank you for a wonderfully informative video.
Thank you Todd! Another great one!👍❤️!
TODD: Is the term “Prayer Warrior” a new modern, evangelical, etc., term? Or is there really such a thing? I was told by our preacher that to be a Prayer Warrior is a gift. I disagree. All Christian’s are called to pray intercessory prayers and to pray without ceasing. Please explain to me if I am wrong. Thank you!
That term is an evangelical construct. While Jesus is shown praying for extended periods of time, "praying without ceasing" doesn't mean a Christian is obligated to spend all hours of the day prayer. What it means is that a Christian should always be ready to pray at any given moment or to be in the consistent habit of praying regularly.
Friends left over lack of last days teaching but my church is sound.All things in Bible important,nothing really more important than other,Bible is woven together.
Moving to another location is very legitimate,I told previous church I was moving and did enjoy their fellowship but wanted to move to go back to place of roots!!!
How often are last days topics preached at your local church, please?
My church growing up had a focus on youth and young adults with hardly anything for the adults. People complained about it, then some suggested, "nothing is stopping you from heading up those programs". They left.
We left a “purpose driven” church where the pastor was proclaiming visions over the church he said God gave him. We voiced our concerns with the pastor privately. He got angry. And that’s when we decided to leave.
And we got some phone calls from our Sunday school mates. People were hurt and confused. People we dearly loved and and it hurt to leave them. And some of them were angry and hurt that we left and we tried as best as we could to explain.
And then.. a year or two later, we had phone calls come trickling in from those same people profusely apologizing and saying “Oohhh! We see it now! We see exactly what you were talking about.”
Some of them then followed us to our new church home and we see them all the time again now.
People love their churches and their pastors and sometimes it makes it very hard when those little errors start becoming big errors to see it for what it is. But keep praying for your friends and family. God will show them in his own time just like he did for you.
You are too funny, Todd! 😂
I left the missionary Baptist after I started listening to RC.Sproul (not because he said so) I was looking for theology that he was teaching and wanted to learn the Westminster confession.
Good advice!
We just left our church for several reasons that had been gnawing at me. Firstly, they tend to put women in pastoral roles, which is okay if they are ministering to women or children, but they should not have authority over men or be called "Pastor." Secondly, they are always asking for tithes and claiming that not tithing ten percent is somehow "robbing God." Thirdly, the praise and worship music is more like a pop music concert than worship music. No one else can even sing along because the worship team is trying to sound like Mariah Carey. Fourth, one of the members on the worship team keeps getting married and divorced and remarried again. No one in the church elders seem to mind. Fifth, and final reason, and this one might just be a pet peeve of mine, but some of the men during the service wear baseball hats and cowboy hats, and to me, that's irreverent. If you take your hat off during the National Anthem, you should definitely remove it when worshipping God. It just seemed very watered down and not strict enough for me. They do that because they don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable unless it is about tithes and offerings. Then uncomfortable is fine, I guess.
I had to leave a church because the leaders were gossiping about my family and others constantly.
Good reason
This is good I agree. I just became a lead / elder at my church so I thought this would be a good video to watch. My church definitely passes the test.
one of the problems I have with Christianity is denominations and its a major problem
@@TheBamaguy334 its not, actually.
@@TheBamaguy334 i agree. I don't think it is wrong to have a denomination but I don't think we should condemn those of others. All that matters is if we are true Christians or not. I don't believe it is wrong to go to a church that has a denomination though just Don't stick only to that one denomination. Stick to the bibles truths
@@Vitamortis. depends on hoe you look at it if you think only 1 denomination is going to heaven then there is a issue. My view is we are all one in Christ no matter what denomination you are.
@@mnbassintv2849 I do not see a need for them,but may I ask where do denominations fit in the body of Christ? and What purpose do they truly serve?
I left my church because they had a woman co-pastor, (Paul said he does not permit a woman to teach or excerpt authority over a man in the church setting), they had a false graven image of Jesus (breaking the second commandment), and when my brother wasnt giving a tithe (10%) the elders confronted him and said they were (worried about him.) Clearly all the cared about was our money. Best to leave and not be deceived by money hungry preachers.
Is it sheep stealing, or sheep rescuing?
Can be either, but probably only the Shepherd can determine that. There is only one true Shepherd, and all we like sheep, including pastors and leaders that are to serve the flock instead of ruling the flock.
Another possible reason to leave: no plurality of elders. One elder makes all decisions. Many problems come from this, which is why Scripture teaches a plurality of leaders and not one man on his own.
I love my church I also love that show blossom that is a really good
this is a great video. I have been going to the same church for about ten years, and its not the same church. Its conformed to the new age movement, and I can honestly say the last several times I've gone I have heard the Gospel maybe 2 times and and the Law not one time. The churches saying is "Its okay to not be okay" but the reality is you can't stay that way. Not to mention having female pastors and guest speakers who don't even know scripture and take it out of context.
the cut offs though 💀
We left a church with a controlling pastor and who loves to talk about himself, wife, rich kids in his sermons. At end of sermon he says “This pastor loves you”. How about telling people that Jesus loves them but I guess its all about the pastor.
I left my church: the senior pastor shut down church one sunday because of the Seahawks, yep u read right, the first day of the Seahaws and more ppl confronted our pastor about not having service that sunday morning and he stated that there were more ppl wanting to stay home for that day so with long debate ( REALLY!!) he decided not to have church that day..😡, 2nd reason senior pastor really likes Rick Warren, he cares alot for him and really likes his preaching🤯( his words not mine) also I asked the pastor if he would pray with me about something that I was very much conerned with and he hesitiated in doing so but did, he stated that my prayers was good enuff( yes they are but I needed to talk) and he i guess normally doesnt pray one one one..🤷🏼♀️ but he did, maybe he saw my tears, idk and last one, one sunday service was on the complaints from some of the congregation who had went to the pastor whining about how people on Facebook yes you read that right Facebook whining about how people were attacking people about their political views so yes when service was about " not attacking people on Facebook" and he was comparing it to some of the scriptures using scripture to show to the congregation that others should never attack people on social media i was floored!!😖😤
I miss going to church I miss Gathering I miss the music and I'm searching it's been so difficult to find a church especially here in Washington state we're practically every church that I'm aware of does not teach the true doctrine of the gospels of Jesus Christ......deep sigh😔 but God is good he will lead me in the meantime i listen to a few men... John MacArthur ,Steven Lawson and a few others, so thats why I left my church.
Have you tried using any of church finder databases? I think the master’s seminary (affiliated with GCC and J Mac) has one. G3 ministries has a database. 9 Marks has one but not sure how trustworthy it is. Many churches these days have a church website and you can listen to the sermons and that could be helpful to see if it is a good church.
Thank you Todd. We are getting close to moving on, but we are trying to use the Biblical method of bringing correction first. Our pastor isn't preaching Scripture (exergesis), but is preaching his personal opinion and tradition (eisegesis). But they are at least in correct standing on theological positions, so we are desperately trying to get the issues fixed. They really have been preaching works and law, rather than grace. We are trying to be as respectful as possible. Slow prayerful process.
I guess it's time for me to do some church shopping because even though my church keeps the deity of the Trinity I don't hear them talk as much about sin as I used to and repentance. I have not seen how they deal with people when there is sin in the church. The church seems lukewarm and I have been going there for about 10 mos.
Our pastor said repentance was a work and not part of the gospel. Was time to leave
I am right here with you. And I am so involved in serving. I love the congregation but am hungry for spiritual growth through strong expository preaching focused on discipleship.
this mirrors my position as well. I am considering leaving because the associate pastor and most of the church elders are women
I'm curious about the church I go to. They are very standoffish, and don't really welcome outsiders. You have to kind of prove yourself to them. They started to talk to me a very little bit after about a month. The preacher would say hello to almost everyone there but then just walk by me like I wasn't there. In his sermon he said if this happens to not be offended it is to test where you are in your spirit and is "very protective of his flock.". Is this right? I kind of understand but I think about how I see people only come once and not come back. Am I being too sensitive?
Nope. Find a welcoming and loving congregation.
No. Hospitality to strangers is a significant theme of the Bible!
Nah, I started going to a new church two months ago and the congregation has been nothing but welcoming as we kept returning. The pastor never ignores people and says hi to everyone he bumps into, and makes an effort to get to know his flock.
Our church is fairly large, but the pastor makes a time (and announces it during the service) for new visitors to stop and meet he and his wife. He specifically asks others to avoid encroaching on this set aside time, so the new folks can feel welcomed.
No. Something is wrong with that Pastor.
Please advise on what to do if a church only does topical preaching, though biblical...?
Topical-but-biblical churches are great for new believers still growing in their faith. Milk and bread... but for spiritually mature believers, they're eventually gonna need some meat. It is very possible to spiritually outgrow a church and there's nothing wrong with that. Find a pastor who can tend to your spiritual needs at whatever stage you are currently at in your faith.
I don't understand why we can't have services available any day of the week...just Saturday or just Sunday isn't enough and people just settle with it...
Hey Wretched crew! I don't understand what's being said about Hillsong/Bethel etc. After watching the video, they are definitely out of orthodoxy, and they've got more egg on their face after the Hillsong documentary since that video was published. I understand that pastors should urge their churches away from it, and certainly worship leaders should get away from it. But you also mention them under the "not reasons to leave" bit. Should church members abscond from their church if they play it? Should they warn their pastors, and if they don't turn from Hillsong and friends, then leave? Stick around even if they stick to it? Yes, no, maybe so?
I also agree with your concerns here. Personally I now refrain from all of their music and I regularly discuss it with others and tell them to do the same. As you've stated there has been so much that's came out now regarding them and it is easy to learn what's wrong. I know that many try to say they can listen to the theologically sound songs and dismiss the others, and I'm sure that some can, but most can't and it seems like it could be a slippery slope for the masses if "you" are playing their music and the masses don't know or don't care to take the time figuring out what's harmful. And worst case, the masses (not the exceptions) could blanket listen to their whole library's as well as maybe assume the churches and "pastors" they are a part of are okay.
Hopefully my rant made sense. Thank you. Be blessed
I get the points. I am quite sound in my theology, and enjoy some of their music. I'd rather listen to Hillsong than some offensive to my sensibilities "mainstream" stuff, at least it gets me thinking about God and His majesty. I also get that those of weaker/newer faith could think that playing music from these groups is an implicit endorsement of their theology. Some songs ("Reckless Love", etc.) just make me turn the station though. If my church played it, I'd probably raise the concern, but if they're teaching sound doctrine I can abide some things.
Really grateful for your post seeking clarification. I could have done a better job stating: as a rule musical preference should not be the sole reason for leaving your church, but worship from Hillsong, Elevation, and Bethel can be grounds for leaving. Please see our video with Justin Peters encouraging pastors to not allow worship songs from those aberrant churches. Thanks again, Brennan.
@@WretchedNetwork those would be for reasons 1 and 4, either outright heresy or theological sins
@@WretchedNetwork Thank you!
If Your church has neglected your spiritual needs, then I would find a new church with Church leadership that actually cares about you
There is only one reason to either join a particular congregation in worship and ministry or leave a congregation ! That reason is God leading one in that particular direction. After becoming a blood-bought, born-again, child of God God and the Holy Spirit baptized me in a particular church yet needing to grow in the faith gifted me in Christ I found myself searching for deeper teaching and instruction. God allowed me to see that I was not going to receive that at that location. At the same time my wife became concerned about those same needs in her walk. God spoke to my heart and had me one Sunday, to go to the back of the church worship center and put my back against the wall to look out over that congregation and so this question: " Is this where you desire me to worship You! " The very clear answer was " NO" so only then did we leave. God then placed us in different local churches yet for His purposes. Sometimes it was a location for us to learn how it is not supposed to be done as opposed to His standards. ( too many money changers and so on. ) I have not since chosen a local congregation based on anything but God's prompting my wife and my obedience to follow Him alone in ourplace to be planted for His purposes.
You may not like the location put before you but that is not the point! God wants to teach you, use you, grow you and that location may be His choice to do that in your life!
#6 - When Church leadership acts like a dictator toward the congregation. Leadership (pastor) has a my way or highway attitude. There is zero accountability in everything (especially finances) which causes many good people to leave. Independent Baptist churches come to mind because many pastors of these churches seem to think that they are above reproach. Almost a demigod attitude.
I often have trouble parsing out the deep theological issues from small ones (taking a passage out of context, not preaching the full extent of a topic like saying love is being kind and that's it). For me anything that is off, that's not a preference, is wrong. But one major theological issue with a previous church and then being told that "according to the membership contract you are to agree with the materials the elders put out or stay silent" in a Bible study context was too much.
Orthodoxy issues
Run Forrest run
I've heard the "graceful departure" point more times before, but, why? If there are serious doctrinal issues to the point of leaving orthodoxy, aren't we supposed to warn others, ie, not leave silently?
What about if a female preacher occassionally fills in for the pastor when he is on vacation? This is the biggest thing that bugs me. There's nothing at all personal, it's solely a conflict with what Paul says in the New Testament.
Bring up these scriptures to the pastor. (1 Timothy 2:9-15, 1 Corinthians 14:33-40) If they dismiss you or try to justify their disobedience to the scriptures, I would leave. To me, this is not a secondary issue. I have left 2 churches already because of this. I do encourage you to seek the Lord before deciding though. Blessings in Christ.
i completely agree with @jeremyrothrock6163
im confused about Hillsongs I’ve heard they blaspheme i believe… but the day I surrendered to Christ in 2016 and finally understood what repentance meant i was listening to (Hillsongs - I surrender) i didnt understand what i was listening to until an understanding hit me like a bolt of lightning i was unable to move and i cried and heard the Lord tell me to go repent… the feeling was conviction, sternness, strong yet gentle. I don’t believe i know God used the song to get through to me.
Remember that Judas was sent out to preach and baptize people right along with the other disciples. The sovereignty of God means He can use whatever means He wills to draw us to Himself. But that doesn't make Hillsong something we should support. Hope that helps. 💞 Oh, and by the way, it does not invalidate your salvation! You were saved by the blood of Christ Jesus - not Hillsong music. 👍 Be strong, keep the faith! 👍
Hi, can i ask a question?
Should Churches sell merchandise, because of wanting to buy a car (anything like this)? Use Church's money in business?
I would say no, but not because of the money changers in the temple. That story was about selling salvation (you needed a lamb to sacrifice, so they sold areas of the temple to profit off of people seeking God). Merchandise is different because you don't need to buy the merchandise to be a member of the church or to receive God's grace.
However, I would caution against this practice because 1. It could look bad. 2. It could distract from the mission of the church (people worshipping God and hearing+proclaiming the Gospel). 3. It takes away from the opportunity of people to GIVE, showing they trust God, not their money and to love Him and His people.
I attend a church that i think is so solid and I feel they've proved that in the short time since I began attending, but I found out they have a few women on their elder/deacon team. They aren't pastors in any way but they're deacons at least. Is this one of those things that could be a disagreement to let go or should I run forest run
I think it's time I left my church. They have a female that holds the title pastor (kids pastor); they had a female recently deliver the sermon and we are constantly singing Hillsong, Elevation and Bethel songs in worship. That's 3 strikes. Am I wrong to be determined to leave?
FWIW I would definitely consider leaving, no question
Beware of false teachers , feel good sermons ,
I think reason number 5 to leave will be everyone's reason. When they are in sin and the preacher calls them out on sin they will call it abuse.
The best way to go about moving to another gathering of the saints is to make sure your reasons are justified by scripture and to make two attempts at resolving your issues because you might be able to save the situation and by authority of scripture edify your elders to bring them back into line with God's word their for having no need to move on , proverbs 9:8-11 shows a blessing on rebuking your elders for error. But after 2 attempts and they don't harken unto wise counsel ( the bible ) just leave politely and when you have time pray for them.
I heard a pastor say that if you do not tithe then you are under a curse. This church should hold 100 - 200 people but usually has 20 - 30 on Sundays, no children church or Sunday school and only a few youth attend. Men meet once a month for breakfast but I don't know if the women do or if there are any other ministries but i don't think there is. I was told by this pastor they tried a neighborhood outreach but nobody came. It's sad. Are these reasons enough to leave and seek another church?
Do they preach the gospel? Are they orthodox? Do they let sin go?
Well if he thinks you are under a curse he is preaching ot law. If he is wrong with that there has to be other things he is wrong about.
@@gigiis526 Tithing is not an "OT law". Jesus very clearly stated in Matt. 5:17 that He _didn't_ come to oppose the authority of the Law or the Prophets. He couldn't have been clearer about this by quoting Deut. 8:3 against Satan in Matt. 4 where He says man is to live by _every_ word that came from God.
Any views on a women co-pastor, and a young women elder, this is one of the issues I'm facing and reason I'm considering moving to a more solid church, am I being legalist?
Look at 4:10. Having a female pastor/elder is a theological sin.
i am facing the same predicament. Well, looks like it's time to leave. Blessings in CHRIST! Hope you find a sound church
"You wanna hear the most annoying noise in the world?" lol.
I admit , I don't understand somethings, but I believe in Jesus
that's what matters :)
What if a church has a worship leader who in prayer instances is really wrong theologically?
What about a church that is not a soul winning church?
Is distance an issue? You have to understand remote rural areas to appreciate this.
What about a church with no leadership - only pulpit supply?
Actually, people travelled by wagon to church for a long long time.
Todd you say it’s fine to leave a church if it feeds your family better? What if you’re a single man who’s hopeful to meet a woman and get married? Is that a valid reason to look for another church if there’s none at your current church??
Seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. Your primary focus should be on God, not the potential future wives available in the church.
What about the SDA church Todd? Will you do a video on this?
Allen Parr has a well made and informative video on the SDA church. I'd steer clear though, Ellen G White, who is like their prophet, has said some very questionable and downright heretical things. There are better options out there I don't doubt that.
This example of silly church signs showed up this week: CHURCH SHOPPING? OPEN SUNDAYS, 10AM”
I'm trying to understand, what's with the obcession with game playing in churches, especially murder mystery games?
Should I leave if the church practices favoritism against me?
I have a theory. The reason our country and society reek right now is that sanctification is no no longer taught. Salt free society. Bring back sanctification training!
Preach
Good stuff! Although I would be a "sheep stealer" if I was leaving because of 1 of your 5 issues. I wouldn't want anyone else to be getting false teachings.
1:08 starts
The problem with youth/child programs is they encourage and give the excuse for parents to neglect catechizing their children
My wife and I recently left our church for all the right reasons mentioned by Todd. The main reason we left is because the leadership is now intentionally recruiting non-believers to serve in the church. We talked at great length with the elders, showing them from God's Word the dangers and warnings of this "new" philosophy. We also left because I was teaching against false teachers and churches such as Hillsong, Elevation & Bethel and I was severely reprimanded for teaching against false teachers and teachings.
My son doesn't know who he listens too, some guy on internet, cause he say good stuff, thank you for standing up for the truth , my son said why do they say that about Joyce and Steven
@@NormanChester882 Hopefully it's not Allan Parr because I'm the recent past he's started to make concessions with Biblical truths he's taught in the past for the sake of being kind to everyone. One obvious example is he recently posted a video of him singing worship songs by Elevation, Bethel, and Passion "ministries."
Also, Joyce and Steven have a lot of things that Biblical Christians need to be very careful of, or better yet to stay away from them completely. They both preach the prosperity "gospel", little gods "theology", modern day "prophets" and "apostles." Sadly many things actually. If you're willing to take the time, the false doctrines of the both of them are easily searchable.
@@Mojo32 my son likes Joyce Meyer, and Steven furtick,God bless you, I go to old fashion Baptist church, every Sunday the message is come to Jesus
@@Mojo32 to be fair in the video Allen Parr did say that just because he likes the worship song doesn’t mean he agrees with the church that it came from.
@@kayhamilton3947 Yep you're correct 👍, and I commend him for making that comment. Unfortunately I was saddened when he posted that video though as prior to it I had been a follower of his channel for quite awhile and learned so much from him and his ministry. I remember some of his past videos regarding the exact topic and names and was a bit disappointed when he was singing their music, because he had explained before how although SOME of their songs could be theologically sound it could still be an issue supporting their "ministries."
I agree with everything but perhaps the insinuation regarding the trinity.
"I feel Jesus doesn't want me in this church so I will look for the church He does want me in."
When you question the so-called leaders and the questions are valid (short range/long range plans, and to see the finance records) and they refuse to answer or say one of the 12 leaders will tell you want we want you to know, then tell you not to come back, it is time to leave.
I disagree. I have hit almost every single church in my area. There is nothing more important than your relationship with Christ.
If Pastors, Elders, or others get in your way-find another church or 3.
Yeah, all these topics are traditional topics. The context of these types of church guidelines were really meant for people who had little to no access to information, hence the preacher. His job was to inform and inspire via information he has researched and makes a part of his job. However, things have changed in terms of access. Preachers aren't the only one with access to information. We are in the information age. People need to seek not be spoken to about what to do with their lives hence removing the authoritative state. If you come together socially, yes you don't want bad apples in any social context, so yes they need to be dealt with directly, but that's not a bible verse requirement. That's just common sense. But individuals no longer need to be under the thumb of authoritarianism as they are truly responsible for gathering their own information and code of conduct. The information age has truly set us free. We don't need no education...We don't need no thought control....
1:16 I beg to differ. If people are getting up your nose, you should probably snort a few times and then call the police
If your pastor says he won’t send you out to preach as a pastor because you were divorced years ago to a wife that wanted out because she was cheating and didn’t want to stop and I did remarry is that a reason to leave especially when I’ve been called to preach but won’t be able to in this church/fellowship church
Are you a woman asking this question?
@@nykka3 yes but it’s not for me it’s for my friend who’s a guy
@@themomwhosstayingsane4982 ok
Transparency issues and favoritism 😔
Make a video on the new age concept of if humans are gods and have god with in us do u think this is true or deception?
My church elders are considering a female pastor. That's a no no to God's word and therefore me.
In the pics on the side, who was the man right below TD Jakes?
NT Wright I think
@@salgal4 Thanks!