What is Kebabnorsk (Kebab-Norwegian) | Norway's Newest Language?
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2024
- In Norway's capital, Oslo, a new form of Norwegian is emerging from its migrant communities. Locally known as "kebabnorsk" - "Kebab Norwegian", how has this variety developed? What distinguishes it from Standard Norwegian, and is it simply slang, a dialect, bad Norwegian, or, as some have proposed a multiethnolect?
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"What is Kebabnorsk, can you eat it"
-Helbert 2024
It is not commonly referred to as "Kebabsvenska" in Sweden, usually this way of speaking is called "Blattiska", "Ortenspråk", "Förortspråk" or "Wallahsvenska".
Yeah it’s young Swedes picking up criminal jargon from Arab gangs. So diverse!
Same thing in Germany, Teens have no Friends or Identity and the Islamic Gang Culture is pretty much the only point of reference they have, especially prevalent in Big Cities @@yoboyfargoth1208
@@yoboyfargoth1208criminal jargon 😂 "wallah" is criminal jargon, thanks mate
My man those aren't even real names, you're just racist
Ive never heard of "Wallahsvenska".
Blatte-språk, för/ortens-språk and similar ive heard about tho.
Quite an interesting topic. I have seen the same with Polish: My parents moved to West Germany in 1988, with two children in tow. We landed up in South Africa in 1990, and I'm back in Poland in 2020. We maintained our spoken polish with minimal influece. 30 years later, I can hear the slight accent shift in spoken Polish.
Could you describe these changes that you noticed? I've been wondering what shifts might be occuring in Polish language right now Especially that I couldn't really see much of a difference between modern Polish and 1930s Polish other than some ortography or words comig in and out of fashion. And, since my entire family has been living here all the time, we might have not noticed those changes, subconciously getting accustomed to them as they happened slowly
@@janboreczek3045 I heard some of the interwar songs and Polish back then was more "elegant" in my opinion, but I'm no expert - treat this comment as "I'm interested in the topic and awaiting answers from the author of orignal comment".
To my "untrained" ear, I have detected a slight shift from /s/ -> /ʃ~ɕ~ʂ/, in the younger population. This also applies to related phoenemes. @@janboreczek3045
Same in Kazakh. Modern Kazakh language of the youth has much more loanwords, and is probably shifting from syllable timed type to stress timed language. We start reducing vowels, not pronouncing Ғ (the french r sound) and shortening the words. As Kazakh is an agglutinate language, it has shitloads of suffixes and some are associated with different dialects. I hear young people including myself adopting asking-imperative suffix -шиш of western Kazakh dialect just for fun or to ask less nicely. (West Kazakhs are kinda considered rude I can confirm)
Keep Europe , a Europe. There is no other.
We have Kebab English too. It’s commonly spoken around British takeaways at 2am on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
"Gimme a kebab mate! nawah !" " Every-fink on it !"
I been subscribed to you for a while, but i never knew you lived in Oslo. As a Norwegian this video was a big surprise. I must say though, that your portrayal of views on "kebabnorsk" isn't really that accurate. Almost every non-immigrant i meet in Norway view "kebabnorsk" as a weird and funny thing and often make fun of it. Most Norwegians will think that "kebabnorsk" is a pretty idiotic thing and most of the Norwegians using it are often kids or teenagers who want to act like gangsters. You also mentioned that "kebabnorsk" not only incorporates Arabic, but also a lot of other languages as well. While this is true, i must admit that i have never met any one else that African or Mideastern immigrants that use "kebabnorsk" unironically. Otherwise this was a very good video and your Norwegian sounds pretty good as well.
Yeah true, i've never met any immigrant either that unironically use kebabnorsk.
Ive met both immigrants/non immigrants using kebabnorsk unironically. Those people usually grew up in areas where lots of them speak it
Dudes sussy
Usikker på hvor vitenskapelig basert dette er
I think it depends on the area. I’m from a very fancy area, and here only elementary school students use kebabnorsk. However, my vgs isn’t as fancy and there people (mostly immigrants) use kebabnorsk all the time. Some teachers like it and others don’t. Also, I know a guy from Burundi who uses kebabnorsk.
Well, this was unexpected.
Who doesn't? He do anything you saw coming? Often it is not in my experience thus far.
@@KangaKucha While he as done videos on topics within the Nordic countries, I did not expect him to do a video on Kebabnorsk.
@@_NekOz fair enough and I agree about Kebab being more than just a food lol ;p
O, morsomt å se deg her
Heh, 69 likes. Nice.
Love it when you do vids on Scandinavia!! However as a Swedish speaker, who actually grew up in an area with one of the highest proportions of immigrant residents in Sweden, I can't say I've ever heard of the word 'kebabsvenska'. The most common way of referring to this sociolect is "ortensvenska", or the less politically correct "blattesvenska".
This is correct. I assume it's a similar story in Norway, where only observers from a far refer to it as "kebabnorsk".
I've always heard it referd to as Zlatansvenska
Rinkeby- & rosengårdsvenska is what's most used in littrature in my experience
@@falkkiwiben Traditionally and generally in ‘literature’ yes. However technically that specifically refers to the sociolects spoken the Stockholm suburb Rinkeby or the Malmö suburb Rosengård. Few in other parts of Sweden, especially in other areas with high contractions of migrant (such Angered, Bergsjön and Biskopsgården in Gothenburg) would colloquially refer to it as such. In those areas, “invandrar-“ or “ortensvenska” are colloquially most prevalent.
Can't say I've ever heard of Kebabsvenska, moreso Förortssvenska (Suburban Swedish), Rinkebysvenska or less friendly names. They word "Wallah" seems significant in any variant of this sociolect regardless of its mother language. I was somewhat surprised when I first heard it used in Germany (no not Frankfurt). During the same trip I first came upon the slang word Digga (from Dicke) which is possibly my least favourite word ever but its origins is seemingly from German slang free of any foreign influences
Yeah, I'm Swedish but have never heard of "kebabsvenska", rather then names Abraxum names above. Then again, I havn't been living in Stockholm in a long time.
The most common "ortensveska" sentence must be "Wallah manner, jag svär". Which is funny cause it's just "I swear man, I swear".
@@Pajo25ify Wallah this, wallah that. How about you valla your skies because it's snowing like mad?
Why is it your last favorite word ?
It's just a another word dude in German
„Digga“ is a deracialiced loantranslation from the US coloquial expression „nigga“. „Digga“ is used by hip-hop-heads.
I've noticed that "Wallah" being used as a "?" is pretty much identical to the relatively new (American?) english slang term "On God?"
For example: "Bro It was crazy, Tommy hit two home runs!" "On god?!" "On god bro!"
give me a break
Yeah thats a pretty normal way to use wallah as a question? Like saying "forreal?"
I was quite confused when i suddenly heard americans and brits shouting "on god" since ive heard it my entire life just in improper grammar Swedish "på gud?".
I at first legit thought they had gotten influenced by our stereotypical immigrants determination to talk as improperly as possible grammatically.
It literally means that in Arabic
Also, "on god", isn't new. Like a lot of American slang, it's was used by the Black community for years/decades until White Americans adopted it and then it became mainstream( I say this because if mainly non-White Americans use a certain phrase or activity, it tends to be seen as "ghetto" and derided because of... "bias", case in point, the entire history of Jazz).
It's just another version of "I swear to God". You see I swear to get swapped out with "on"/ "on my" because it's easier to say to "I swear to" all the time( I guess) like "on my momma".
In the Netherlands there is not only Arabic, Berber and Turkish that immigrated in our language. But also the creole languages of the Dutch Antilles and Suriname. We already incorporated Jiddisch and Malaysian, but they aren’t so easy to spot, because for most of us the words were always there.
You know how* it is, man. We must spread the word habibi as brown people, or beoble depending on your accent.
In Denmark that sort of “dialect” is known as “Perkerdansk” . The first time I heard that my fellow Scandinavians called it “Kebabnorsk” really made me smile. Durumswedish?
ja jeg synes den dialekt er mærkelig
@@MR_ponki wallah min fætter, det var en pæn formulering habibi👍
@@ole7146 det forstod jeg intet af lol
I just came here to call you my Nordic habibis 😂
@@yaqoubalshatti205 lol
Intresting, there is a Welsh village where some of my family are from . The Welsh used even to this day have been influence of cornish, salopian, scots, lancastrian and other Welsh dialects not foumd in recieved Welsh. Sometimes those who speak this Welsh are considered not to be speaking "proper Welsh".
Pa tref wyt ti'n siarad am? Caernarfon?
What's the name of the village please?
5:40
Love when you cover scandianavian topics!! A small point, “brorsan” which you wrote as “brushan” is not the official word for “brother” in Swedish, which is still “bror” just like Norwegian. “Brorsan” is more of an affectionate pet name stylization of bror.
EDIT: 6:50 I’m not sooo familiar with Norwegian, but in Swedish “Skit”, literally “sh*t” which means essentially “crap” because it’s not actually considered a swear word is used frequently as an intensifier, and a super common version of that is “skit cool” (borrowing the English word) or “skit bra” (bra means “good”).
It may be that this is another thing borrowed from Swedish, or it’s just common to the Scandi languages
Norwegian does also use dritbra
Kebabnorsk seems really similar to what is commonly called Toronto slang in Canada. Many different immigrants come to the city, and then there is a mixing of words that transcends any one ethnic group. Similar to Kebabnorsk, Arabic plays a big role in Toronto slang, with words like "wallah" being said by practically everyone in the street culture. Differing from Kebabnorsk, there is not that much European language integration into Toronto slang, like Polish or Swedish. There is, though, a very noticeable usage of terminology borrowed from Jamaican patois, and at first glance, I think many people would just assume Toronto slang is just poorly spoken patois (which, to an extent, it is, as many people see patois as being "cool" but fail to use the words properly). However, with noticeable borrowing also from Somali, Hindi, Urdu and other languages, Toronto slang is truly a multiethnic dialect. Like you said with Kebabnorsk, those who are not immigrants also tend to learn to speak the multiethnic dialect as well; many white Canadians speak Toronto slang as well, though you can tell who is just faking it, and even immigrants from wealthier communities in the Greater Toronto Area noticeably force the accent, and so sound inauthentic.) Music culture is very important in Kebabnorsk and Toronto slang as well. I think, from personal experience, that a major factor as well is that Torontonians (and those in the Greater Toronto Area) consciously try to make themselves sound unique and so incorporate words from immigrants while simultaneously trying to fit in with the wider Anglosphere, which is why I think Toronto slang incorporates words originating from the US and Britain as well: Not sure if Kebabnorsk speakers are similarly self-conscious about their dialect as Torontonians are.
Reminds me a bit of Pennsylvania Dutch. Throughout its life, it's often been described as a "garbled mix of broken English and worse German"
I prefer Texandeutsch myself. The most cowboy version of Hochdeutsch I ever heard.
If worse German is a reference to Low German than that is not a worse German… just German from the lower (closer to the north sea / Denmark) regions :)
@@sgjoniPennsylvania Dutch is not Low German based, it is Upper German based.
The fact that you are really good at speaking Norwegian just shows how similar Dutch and Norwegian is, pretty cool.
Like ebonics for Norway
I've known your channel for quite some time, but what surprised me the most is that my teacher in Economics knows you personally.
I like to point out, that the genders using "en", "ei" and "et" may change depending on where in Norway you are. As I am from Bergen, on the westcoast, we use "en", and not "ei" or the "a-ending of a word". "En hytte ", "en avis" and "en datter". The words changes gender from feminine to masculine. The Bergen dialect is a bokmål dialect, but the gender rules are somewhat different. But on the westcoast the dialects surronding Bergen are as a general rule more "nynorsk", where they use the feminine gender more. the "ei" often becomes an "a"-ending or an "o"-ending. "Ei jente" becomes "jenta" or "jento", this all depending on where you are. As a norwegian I would classify "bokmål" as norwegian written RP. As most "bokmål"-writers tend to speak a dialect that do not entirely mirror how they express themselves in written form. There are of course always exceptions to the rule...
I must say that I do thoroughly enjoy you videos. 👍 Thank you good sir for your excellent work. 🙂
I have almost NEVER heard "ei jente" or "ei seng" in the Oslo area. It's en jente, jenten and en seng, sengen. The only feminine ending that was common was for the wilderness park on the north side of Oslo: Nordmarka.
Jenten høres ikke helt riktig ut i hodet mitt uansett hvordan jeg prøver å tenke på det haha@@billyungen
@@NordicFoxArt Kommer an paa hvor man bor, sikkert.
What i appreciate about your channel is that you talk about topics no one else talks about.
I was not expecting a video about this from you in a million years 😅😅
won't be long till it's the main language or norway..
As a 100% Norwegian, I learned to speak kebabnorsk with my Polish and Burmese friend alot. It was super fun :D
This was around 8 years ago, in my 16-18 year old schoolgoing. I am from 1 hour east into the forest of Oslo, so it is alreadyy pretty wide dialect. We usually had more feminine use on subjects, so it was a different type of the norwegian I guess. Everything is different wherever you go around here I think. So many of my words are not understandable for Trøndere here in Trondheim where I currently live. Like "Tæshe" is a word I have for stealing, which a lot of people don't know what is.
My favorite word of the Stavanger/Siddis dialect at least in the inner city among people I knew has to be "kåjabetå" which is the last bit of a cigarette or joint, but there's still a few good puffs left. Might just be my circles though.
I am german, but live in Norway and learn still a lot of Norwegian, also a bit of trøndersk. this is super interesting! We have the same to some extend in german even also using Wallah, but also Alter! (either the age or an older person). Though Kanaksprak is an artword from a novel from the 90s (and Kanake is a swearword in german for turkish people, so maybe that should not be used here).
Since I am in a quite international group by now, it is also interesting to often see these “small mistakes” in other peoples norwegian (or english) and after a while even pin pointing down from which other language and expression that comes from. I love these small changes and differences.
Alter and Junge, German really likes pointing out the age of one's acquaintances
@@Abraxium sure, or, when they are maybe not the skinniest, Digga (in non-slang wirtten Dicker, but never pronounced with a shap k nor the er at the end).
@@ronnybergmann Oh, thank you for the clarification. I thought it had to do with someone being stubborn (dickköpfig) or merely dense. The latter is however taken far too literal from English
Alter! ist die Kurzform von Alter Schwede! und hat mit irgendeinem Xenolekt oder Wallah-Deutsch nichts zu tun. Dann doch eher der Ausdruck »Junge« zu allem.
Abgesehen davon, dass dieses Wallah-Deutsch eher ein Pidgin ist. Was man eher beobachten kann, dass viele junge Leute heute diese dunklen türkischen Vokale benutzen und dann nur 8 verschiedene, anstatt die 15 verschiedenen, die das Deutsche hat.
in the kindest way hilbert, i dont speak norsk of any kind (wish i did) but i can speak colloquial arabic and was chuckling because 'waallah' is used in all the different ways u mentioned among arabic speakers in the middle east (have used it myself in every context you gave but have never thought too much about it). its interesting that it may be being picked up and used by non-arabic speakers but unique it kababnorsk it is not. much love hilbert
Here in France, a lot of young people like me say wallah as well, since we're often around Maghrebis who say it a lot.
Same in the UK, same in Canada. Anywhere you find Muslim immigrants, you’ll find them using their oath of God
Wallah I promise habibi, Hilbert already knows this.
Well this is insufferable.
Lol they really just call Norwegian woman Kaeba with the full meaning
Seeing the word "Kebabnorsk" the first what came to in my mind was "Krasnoyarsk", then I realised that this case is about a little bit different word.
I'm Norwegian and I didn't know much about kebabnorsk, what I know is that it's usually seen as something funny and pretty idiotic, even by immigrants.
Finally, a topic worthy of international attention.
As an Norwegian myself, i only know a few word in Kebabnorsk. Your Norwegian prononciation was quite good, sound wise not to different from Dutch.
5:39 brushan is really just a corruption of old timey Swedish slang brorsan (which is pronounced brushan to be fair), which means “the brother” in Swedish. Brother in general is bror, same as in Norwegian. Also interesting how they call all women whores, says a lot about the attitude some of these linguistic pioneers might hold hmm…
We actually write it "brosjån/brosjon" in Oslo at least
Akin to the already existing Norwegian pet forms "bruttern" and "brodern" it seems
I hate these kinds of "dialects"
Have you ever met any of these immigrants Norwegians? I feel that most of the time, people’s negative perception of immigrants comes from the fact that they never met any of these immigrants. So please, before you make you make your own pre judgemnent, try to meet some of these people first.
@@aimanmarzuqi4804 Norwegians? No. However in Sweden my school was primarily attended by these people, and I imagine that these people are similar. Don’t get me wrong I’m not talking trash about all Norwegians who are immigrants, of course. However if you purposefully exclude yourself from mainstream society, act abrasive toward the native population, and so on, then I will judge you. That’s what almost all the kids in my high school were like, they were pretty much scared to look “too Swedish” or like they’re trying to be a part of mainstream society. A lot of them would do stuff which mainstream Swedish society has huge issues with like threaten teachers, harass girls in the corridors, shout in class, sell drugs more or less openly, and so on. Those people I despise, and those are the people who choose to speak with this “dialect”.
So I guess to answer your question shortly, yes I have extensive experience being around these types of people. It’s not just “oh you don’t know them” because sadly I do, and my opinion towards them was much more lax before I met them. They’re delinquents at best and criminals at worst. Having an accent is okay but this isn’t an accent it’s an intentional linguistic group marker which people choose to adopt. There were absolutely people with accents who were foreign born who attended my school who were not like these people. They would avoid using words used in the ghetto dialect and would act like anyone else, and try their best to blend in, and I have nothing but respect toward those people, no matter their ethnic origin or religion. My thing is, if you move to a country, respect the local culture, don’t be purposefully abrasive and try to antagonise the society you moved to. You don’t need to do everything the way natives do it but at least don’t purposefully disrespect them. Like if I moved to Saudi Arabia I probably wouldn’t celebrate Eid and pray 5 times a day and stuff but I would also respect that it’s the way things are done there.
last time I was this early, regular Norwegian was spoken
Last time I was this early Norway spoke Danish
Last time I was this early, prehistoric Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers were still around.
@@GwainSagaFanChannel You mean written.
Last time I was this early Norway was covered by a thick glacier with only its cracking echoing in the air
yes@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981
Kebabnorsk was at its height in the late nighties - the Norwegian movie Schpaa was the pinnacle of this language - Herman Flesvig is the last proponent of this language😂
6:39 Drijtspa is probably a derivative of the norwegian "drit(t)bra", which has the same meaning
I call all Scandinavian languages "drunk German", because with enough alcohol you'll think it's German
Only Danish sounds like that😂
@@mhas9110 Norwegian also to me personally could be added to that list like its basically simplified Danish if you ask me
@@GwainSagaFanChannel 💀again our RUclips fates meet I see
@@mhas9110 Believe me lmfao, only Finnish is the one that sounds the most Un-German, the rest of y'all are the same
Danish basically, at times i tought i was hearing German, but it was just Danish, probably because of how close they are Geographically
Using "drit" as an intensifier is already a common feature of Norwegian, just to add some context.
One thing that's interesting about the Oslo-dialect is that the dialect people commonly speak in Oslo nowadays is not actually the traditional Oslo-dialect. The modern Oslo speech is closer to what you would call "Standard East Norwegian" which is sort of a spoken standard for Bokmål, but traditional Oslo dialect was much closer to the dialects you would find in the eastern Norwegian rural areas. The difference was for example stresses on the first syllable (BANNan vs. banAN for banana) or more common -a endings (stua vs. stuen for livingroom). One of the reasons why this traditional Oslo dialect was almost completely eradicated is because it was and is perceived as a working class, uneducated way of speaking, and so is less prestigious.
So you became French-ised in Oslo? To stress the last syllable is somewhat French to me. The first stem syllable stress is a common Germanic feature.
Elfdalian/Dalecarlian runes video when?
I knew this comment section was going to be nice and respectful to everyone 😊😅
To share some more funny stuff, in Spain the youth has been incorporating words from Spanish American dialects that enter mostly through the internet, but at the same time I have noticed people from Spanish America in the internet to sound progresively more like people from Spain, it truly amezes me how the transcontinental exchange still goes on full swing
2:00 love how Chilean Spanish Is their own subject
I don't know how it is with Norway, but the first sizable wave of Spanish speaking immigrants to Sweden were refugees that fled from the dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile.
@@petterbirgersson4489 yeah i know, it's just endearing that our spanish is different enough to be treated as another spanish lol
“I’ve gone to Norway, last year” Hilbert.
Reminds me of the "Guest Worker German" in many ways
13:00 I think that conservative standard bokmål doesn't have the distinction between feminine and masculine at all. Both feminine and masculine nouns have merged into "en-ord" or "utrum" just like in Swedish or Danish.
Isn't Nynorsk the conservative one in opposition to Bokmål (I don't speak Norwegian and I never was in Norway, just asking).
@@Hadar1991 Well if you by conservative mean conservative with regard to old Norse/ old Germanic, yes. Nynorsk preserve for instance the three gender system for nouns and the verbs retain different conjugation for different persons.
Bokmål on the other hand was from the start basically just Danish where you had switched some consonants. And Danish was already several hundred years ago a "radically changed" Germanic language without stuff like personal verb conjugation and only two noun genders.
But since Norway gained independence, more than a hundred years ago the distance between Nynorsk and Bokmål has been shorter and shorter. Modern Bokmål more often has traits from Nynorsk than older more "conservative" Bokmål .
Kebabnorsk is an Adaptable and Fascinating Language!
I want to Learn More about how it Works!
Well, this was unexpected! A smack to the head when I was a kid ended my ability to learn a second language (I was quite good at French up till that point), but I've always been fascinated by linguistics. I love your history and linguistic videos - can you update that folder? I find weaving the linguistic elements in with historical or cultural info can help me retain a little of the linguistics. Otherwise, I'm just pretty drat* at remembering the linguistic part
(*I've already forgotten it, haven't I?)
I dont hate other cultures i just want the old Norwegian culture to survive
Bruh Norwegian isn't going anywhere lol. You're fine.
Depending on what you mean by old Norwegian culture you'll find it better preserved in Minnesota than here. Cultures change, languages change, countries change, it's how societies evolve and progress. I still eat lamb or fish cooked in a more "traditional " way for dinner every now and then, but taco friday and frozen pizza is more common nowadays, and me and most Norwegians seem to be onboard with that
@@jamesidk1575being replaced in your own land is the first step to your culture dying.
nice, a befitting video to watch after eating an xxl kebap
Kæbe is derived from kaɛba, meaning "a piece" in my Arabic dialect, it is a feminine noun used in slang to mean a person but it has no derogatory meaning, "kaɛba weħda" literally means "one kind of a piece" used to mean that person is unique and good, used for both men and women.
The word for whore is universal in all Arabic dialects and Berber is "Qaħba".
As for sjofe, it is like shoof, which means see in Dialects of Arabic.
What's the difference between qaħba and sharmuta?
We have what we call citetaal (its like straattaal but different i think) in my Flemish city, and idk if this word existed before the immigrant commuity but we use the word vies goed or vies af which literally means bad good or bad (idk how to translate af) but it means something's very good just like witj drijtspa I guess.
Nobody seems to have told you this, but Kebabnorsk had it's nationwide breakthrough upon the release of the movie 'Ærlig' in 2008, when 'Schpa, kæbe, ass' was a popular quote from the movie.
Yes, your (eastern)Norwegian sounds real good, Herbert. Kudos. I suspect though, that you might find the fjord dialects of western Norway more similar to both Frisian and English :)
Do the Kiezdeutsch and the Straataal please
europe has fallen
Beside Oslo, do you find this in the west of the country (ex. Bergen) ?
You find it only in eastern Norway.
You find it pretty much only in Oslo, I think because it's a larger city over all, and because there are clearer class and ethnic divides there.
Some words and phrases still make it to the west at least in my experience, like "wallah"
7:53 wallah is used in Arabic in similar fashion
Because the ward wallah means "I swear to God"
so it can be used as question like: wallah? which means "do you swear on .....? " and the answer is wallah! "Yes I swear"
I wonder what the future global langue will look like. Wikipedia has a list of top 20 langues both by first speakers and total speakers and there the obvious ones like English, Mandarin, Spanish, Hindi, etc. But it would be neat to make some sorta conlang out of that.
Why does there need to be only one? It's just as likely that there will be large populations using some form of English (or Spanish, Mandarin etc) at an L2 level without supplanting each other or their speakers' native languages. Incidentally the Expanse novels and series feature various attempts at a global conlang. It's cool, I suppose- if you ignore the implied extinction (or at least near-extinction) of every other language on earth required to create such a language.
Is there a similar occurance with the Dutch language? Are there names for this? I hear a lot of street language lately and I'm sure it has evolved quite rapidly the last 10+ ish years.
The fact that kahba is a general word for girls there is probably not a good sign lmao😂
İ didn't know that İ've went is the normal form in Geordie. İn fact İ've heard several times Americans saying something like "İ should've went". İnitially İ thought it was just a random individual mistake, but İ've heard this from many people independent of each other which probably means that it's more widespread in speech.
As for the merging of the different genders in Kebabnorsk, note that it's practically the standard in English and Afrikaans. İ reckon in some old dialects of Danish the gender distinctions had vanished as well.
In the note at 3:17, the term “perkerdansk” is a mix og the racial slur “perker” (usually referring to a person of middle eastern descent) and dansk (danish). The term is used by racist boomers most of the time and is not an accepted term in general. Just a heads up as there was almost no way for you to know of course
4:55
I wish you included another row with the original language version in it using latin letters.
as a native norwegian, i still mix feminine and masculine words
I STILL SAY EN HYTTE INSTEAD OF EI HYTTE
Blattesvenska exist in swedish. Basically a loose ill defined swedish patois made up from swedish and and words from the many different languages and cultures of the new swedish immigrants.
Never heard the name kebabsvenska bedore.
Dear Mr. Hilbert,
Arabisms are often adopted without any change in meaning or language.
They are figures of speech, much like how 'normal' the Ancient Greeks spoke.
And they are pretty universal too; You can find many the same Arabisms in the Hebrew language too.
Some official, but most apearantly where informal adoptions through refugees from Arab countries.
In Aristotle you can find phrases identical English and German figures of speech such as:
"Ουσοι και Οσα" : litterally translates to "This or that" ~Zus en Zo~
I believe these came to us through Latin, not some Indo-European connection.
On the Grammar, given the fact that most Kebabnorsk speakers are non Native Norse speakers;
You find shortcuts such as your "på" example, this is again true for modern Hebrew.
Their word for 'doing' an act became the main way to describe an action.
for instance: 'I did a coffee' , as opposed to 'I made a coffee'.
The problems with such dialects are:
-No one can bloody understand you. ~I have this problem (thick accent)~
Beyond the small area where my dialect is spoken, I have to speak standard.
And takes some real ajusting to.
-It dumbs down the language.
-It makes speech confuseing, for outsiders especially.
I would say it is bad Norsk as it is hyper-correction and just the process of creolization.
Not really a process of creolisation but a Creole language in its own right based on standard Norwegian with simpler grammar.
@@giftokoh64How is that a creole if it isn't anyone's native language
@@FOLIPE No a Creole language is a process of multiple languages simplifying and mixing into a new form.
@@giftokoh64 That's not true, a creole doesn't imply simplification necessarily, and it does imply stability in the form of being the native language of a segment of the speakers. What you are talking about might be a pidgin or contact language but it isn't a creole
You talking very good Norwegian in this video in part of this video that you talked Norwegian!
I am ethnic Norwegian! All my family have lived in Norway for many generations!
I have a nephew who is living in UK, he have lived in UK for many years now!
He studied in a very good school in UK, have been in UK after this! He is working in the movie business!
Before he moved in UK he wanted to become different part of this business he is working in!
Ooh, bad Norwegian grammar at the end there. So, born in Oslo, never lived there, 10 first years in Skedsmokorset east of Oslo, then Sandefjord since. Kebabnorsk isn't used here, so very interesting to watch this. I spoke Oslo østkant dialect when I moved here, but soon changed to local, which isn't very different. We speak eastern bokmål in this whole region west of Oslofjorden. Kebabnorsk has not had an influence on the language here as far as I can tell. What has happened is a change amoung young people to start using thin L where we traditionally use thick. Thin L has always been used east of Oslofjorden. Now young people here sounds just like people from Østfold. If you do a video on bokmål this and the loss of the kj-sound is an interesting development of bokmål. Young people now say sch instead. When I was at school those who couldn't pronounce kj like in kjærlighet went to a speak therapist to learn. Now kids say schærlighet.
btw, you do know that all your feminine examples can also be masculine? En hytte, en avis, en datter. West and east Oslo use different genders quite often, with west being more posh and therefore using the masculine. It sounds more posh when speasking, a bit like upperclass English. In Norway it's not the pronounciation which makes you sound posh, it's the form of bokmål you use, in Oslo at least. The use of feminine gender is considered blue collar dialect, whilce masculine is considered the standard by the book bokmål.
Schærlighet sounds like the Swedish pronunciation of that consonant cluster -- as in the way Swedes pronounce drive and buy. It is certainly easier to pronounce than Norwegian "kj" -- but it simply sounds Swedish. (I lived across the fjord from you in Ski kommune, southern end of Akershus fylke. Nobody said sch for kj there!)
@@billyungen The use of sch instead of kj isn't geographically limited to Vestfold, but is occuring all over the country where kj is used. You can see good examples of it on the TV-show "Eides Språksjov". The use of sch leads to some rather funny sentences.
@@ArnsteinTrany Tusen takk for det. Jeg hadde ingen aning! Norske vennene mine are like gammel som jeg. De utaler kj som jeg lærte det. Og jeg er ikke veldig mye i Norge nu til dags! Da jeg bodde på Nord Norge ble kj utalt some tsch: "Jeg bor på Kjeldebotn" ble "Æ bor på Tschellbotn". Men sch har jeg bare hørt i Sverige. Norsk blir forsvensket!
18:57
Don't worry, it's understandable.
And that's the most important thing about languages. ;-)
And you'll get there with the pronounciation etc with time. :-)
Why frame a disaster as quirky for 20 minutes straight??
Interessante analyse. De volgend over hetzelfde fenomeen in het Nederlands a drerrie?
Go ahead, Kebab-Nederlands.😂
ja het is overal
Zelfs in Vlaanderen.
I haven't lived in Norway for a while, but growing up there I would advise against anyone using the word "kebabnorsk", as it had at least back in the day a derogatory connotation.
Now do "Rinkeby-svenska".
Scandinavians discovering ebonics
How dire.
Purity is a main base for quality.
Rigidity is the main base for cultural paralysis.
@@Game_HeroOr cultural protection? It's hypocrite coming from the most rigid parts of the world. ☪️ Guess why people don't want that influence.
Purity is a subjective term. Nothing is pure as far as humanity is concerned and you'd have to a complete wally to think otherwise
10:58 “in line” or “on line?”
interesting
I likened this to AAVE as the closest example in English.
I think you can compare it to quite a few dialects in certain New York neighborhoods, especially if you go back a 50-100 years. I'm also pretty sure you can tie some of the words and phrases in large US cities back to immigrant communities and merging of language and culture in those cities
I'm in Denmark. Here it's called nydansk or indvandre dansk and often contains wallah, yalla, para, juu etc.I think there would be uproar if someone started calling it kebabdansk. I've heard it referred to as "perker dansk" but this is incredibly offensive and not used in polite circles.
It's like how english became english...
Being Swedish, I have never heard the expression kebabsvenska. The somewhat derogatory version blattesvenska, yes, but not kebabsvenska. Source: from a town with a lot of immigrants.
Nobody i know has ever said anything about kebabnorsk being cool... first ive heard that its like american gangster speak you only use it to sound more dangerous or like a gangster.
This is just sad
Wallah isn’t unique to kebab norsk it’s definitely from Arabic. Wallahi fam
Hello Hilbert. So it is not a fast food outlet in North Skipton? I sort of got it from Yorkshire and German and being from Bradford. Mind you, they might understand it in Skipton.
2:21 like your combination of u.s and u.k flags
So Kebabnorsk is similar to 'Multi-Cultural English' which is worse to the ear then Estuary English - it is the like audible equilavent of getting your fingers jammed a door.
And I say that as Essex boy, we have such maligned accent - but it's just derived form Cockney from all the people leaving East End after WWII.
2:39 so technically with that definition you can call language like Indonesian as Malay Multiethnolect?
where i come from if u spoke an equivalent people would see it as as confrontational, maybe even a direct threat in the wrong circumstance, so people have largely moved away from speaking like it as it pretty much just puts a target on your back
Vivimo en el mejor país de Chile hermano
This is so cool! As a language teacher it's really helpful to learn about ethnolects. Thanks Hilbert!
How is this cool ?
@@zacharydurocher4085because languages change and you look like an isis fighter wallah
I’m hungry
Interessant syntese, men jeg lurer på om det vil øke all konflikten rundt språket i Norge fordi man vet det er en regional konflikt rundt det i visse kretser.
Usually when there is an external threat, internal conflicts are put aside, but in this case both conflicts might be Oslo against the rest of the country?
@@rutgerw.Oslo is shithole
6:18 In other words "The Shit"
So sorry for Europe, absolute B R U T A L
Why.. Most forward thinking Europeans aren't worried. Because we have education on our side
@@K_j_M how come every person with a palestine pfp bitches about israel's settlements on the west bank while supporting the great replacement
Det som er interessant er at vi lærer litt om kebabnorsk på skolen :)
The schools must pretend that Norway is a multicultural society -- although the existence of this dialect proves a degree of isolation which shows that Norway is NOT a multicultural society. If Norway had assimilated refugees, then they would speak Norwegian. Instead, they are developing their own dialect in their isolated communities. Det var synd.
@@billyungenThey do speak Norwegian though, that's the point of the video. Kebabnorsk is very similar to immigrant dialects in New York IMO, and over time the dialects get "weaker" in regards to for example unique syntax as the communities integrate and assimilate.
Also we don't learn it in school so that we can pretend that Norway is a multicultural society - Even if we never had immigration we would still be one. When I learnt about it it was to demonstrate the evolution of Norwegian, social/class dialects, and work-related language and words.
*Kebabsvenska
Although I have never heard of it.
Pretty disgusting that this happening in Norway and all of Europe,if you truly Knew how bad things are.
What's so disgusting about it? I much preffer they at least speak a variety of Norwegian rather than just english or arabic (while still being able to speak in standard Norwegian like Hilbert said). Note how that variety has loanwords from even polish or swedish, do you find those languages disgusting as well?
@@Game_HeroClearly a double standard. Atleast those immigrants are trying to do something.
7:50 Erm, no! This IS ALSO how it works in Arabic, and is probably why it works like that in "kebabnorsk"
Wallah in arabic is "w Allah", "w" (or "waw", as in the arabic letter waw) can by translated to "by" or "on" or "and", and Allah is "God", so it is "[I swear] by God".
So, in arabic, if you say something unbelieveable someone can say "really? Swear [by god]!" or "really? Say [I swear] by God!", which has been shortened to just be "By God?!" (Wallah?!)
And then you can affirm you're telling the truth by saying "By God!" (Wallah").
In swedish you hear "orten"-people (people speaking "kebabsvenska" or blattesvenska as we call it here - immigrant swedish) often (annoyingly often, if I may add) saying "Say Wallah!"