Audi S5 Update: Piston Damage From LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition)
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- 2018 Audi S5 Direct Injected 3.0L Turbocharged V6. Come along with us on this engine teardown and diagnosis. We will talk in depth about what causes low speed pre-ignition and how you can avoid it.
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This channel, besides being great examples of mechanics, is a fantastic example of customer service applicable anywhere you got customers. Dont promise what you cant deliver, keep to your word, communicate clearly and be honest even in bad situations. Love it!
Wow, thank you!
@@DavesAutoCenterCenterville. Your photography and camera quality is Top Notch. Great work fellas !
Endless lessons to be had here. Never stop learning, treat people with dignity and respect, good self criticism, etc.
I started using Shell Premium in my Audi and have been using Castrol full senthetic . I'm not sure if premium is enough in my 2013 A4 with about 70.000 miles
Except the shitty part…. Them being all Christian 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
Firstly i want to say im a big fan of your work.
I am a workshop boss in the Netherlands.
It is always a pleasure to watch your work and insight of things. 18 years working as a mechanic im learning everyday day and man i am happy to find a channel that teaches. Keep up the work.
Good to hear from you in the Netherlands 👍.
🫡🇺🇸🦅❤️
I'm from the Netherlands too. What brand do you work for in the shop?
Oranje boveeeeen
Netherland also workshop owner 👌🏽
Please consider changing the rocker arms - if he has the old ones (part number 06M) they can lead to a catastrophic failure. There are new revised ones (part number 0P2).
Exactly this.
These rocker arms need to be done. Known issue on these EA839 engines (early builds).
It would be a shame to miss these while the engine is out.
Looks like there were little rocker arm bearings being pulled out with the piston ring parts. Definitely a situation.
Yup
Agreed from Scotland
I've learned more about engines in 14 minutes than in the last 15 years of scrolling on RUclips. Thanks Dave
You know you’re old school when you busy out the molasses comparison lol
😂
Todays oil is more like water and acetone 😂
Slow as molasses
Hey now, leave Dave's Mole Asses outta this! 😉
@@hhn2002Yep. 0w-20 is like water.
Thanks for clearly explaining how LSPI occurs.
please take a sample of that oil if still possible; send it to Lake Speed Jr to see what the shop actually put in it!
It's not oil, It's software.
Email the major tuning companies and determine what fuel it is tuned for or ask them to assist in reverting to stock.
APR
034 Motorsports
IE Integrated Engineering
Unitronic
There’s one more thing that can cause or at least contribute to LSPI. Dave didn’t say it on camera probably to save the client embarrassment. You must put premium fuel in an Audi and it should be from a top tier station. Not Mo’s Flow and Go. Any other octane grade besides premium will cause pre ignition even with octane additives.
Sure, but why did only one piston, at least on that bank, show damage?
@@rafmatt1607sure, then why would LSPI only be one piston and cylinder bank? You can use the exact same reasoning to discredit yourself
As an mechanical engineer and backyard mechanic, I really appreciate your attention to detail, diagnostic steps, and the multiple solutions you give the customers. Love the Condition, Cause, Correction, Confirm advice in the Lambo engine failure video; basically the scientific method applied to cars. Keep up the great work!
Both these engines were made in the same factory.
There was never a followup video for that Lambo engine.
I have been a long time believer in a 60 second idle warm up and easy driving for the first 2 miles))) It is nice to hear Dave Confirm this.
He should definitely replace the timing chain and tensioners while the engine is out. The only exception would be if it had extremely low miles.
Be easier to replace the car with something that isn't an overpriced overengineered shop filler.
@@MadScientist267 what will this thing be worth after he dumps 25 k into it....sounded like a prime candidate for some kind of insurance mishap
@MadScientist267 Japanese V8s are way better than any of these German cars. The only exception is SLS AMG, which is impossible to find.
@@lostalx Rollin yota... indeed
Bad idea to put used guides back in
Dave I never tire of watching your videos and how much you appreciate your employees and even talk them up on camera. Everyone deserves a boss like you that instructs and praises.
Good work Dave and crew. Yep , I was a VW Audi tech for 30 years!! And being German, I never understood the reasoning, especially from a service point of view!! Timing chains and pensioners were another situation. You might want to put a timing set in there too!!
Howdy from my Virginia retirement home!!
Cheers Y'all 🍻
Rick. 🤠
Hi Rick! Hope retirement is serving you well
A German American here .
Mechanic since 1979.
Worked on all equipment diesels heavy equipment marine trucks cars motorcycle..
I think Germany lost WW2 and getting revenge by selling POS cars to dopey rich people.
I have older Deutz and had Maico 490 .
From 1980s were still good.
I work on Liebherr cranes and Krupp .
Mercedes diesel still excellent.
Totally agree here. Must replace the timing chains tensions and guides if you have it out.
What I like most about Dave is he lets the Auto Manufacturers know where they failed their customers like a disappointed elder. Exactly what they deserve.
I'm in the 43rd year of being a mechanic and I've seen the good and the bad techs, As far as I can see I've got to say you're pretty lucky with the techs you have working for, very thorough and not afraid to these kind of jobs!! Great job guys!!!!
There’s a reason Dave’s techs are not afraid of taking on these jobs… they are very well trained and have a very supportive boss.
I worked 40 years as a mechanic and the status quo was the boss was a prick and lying to customers, and the other techs were secretive about their mechanical and electrical knowledge and were very reluctant to share info they may have learned on courses or on the job.
I’m retired now but so glad to be away from the trade…I love fixing cars and bikes, but I don’t like the business side of it.
I’m in New Zealand by the way.
@@munter10 I agree 100%, you know it's not the job it's the people you work with! I'm about to retire soon, can't wait. USA here Illinois 30 miles south of Chicago.
@@munter10Hard to hide knowledge when it’s all over the internet. You don’t need to depend on some low life mechanic next to you to tell you how to do things. Just google it.
Integrity and honestly, you have it and it is so rare.
lol the 50k mark after college was the norm 6 years ago, it’s 80k now and 80k today still feels like 50k after all expenses.
Income has feeling?
@@Unbleachd give it some more critical thinking....you are almost there....
@@ryen49 no as a flat rate tech the last 12 years I disagree. I’ve lived below my means and stayed out of debt 90% of those years. I have no idea what you people are talking about.
no matter what you are making it's NOT easy work, working as a mechanic anywhere for anyone!
Well looking at guys toolbox he prob spent more than some did on a college degree lol.
You’re the only guy on RUclips who gets LSPI EXACTLY right. If I could add, non SP rated oil can lower the octane of the atomized fuel to the point it’s unstable at the higher, boosted compression ratios and operating temps of modern engines. GF-7/SQ is launching March 1 of next year. Most of the changes are specifically around LSPI with a smaller focus on fuel efficiency. The OEMs drove most of the LSPI changes. Warranty costs are a real b****!!
Except his recommendation on oil excluded the Audi specific requirements. This was an ignorant ass video. .
The engine died from the tune. Not oil.
I'm a retired tech with over 50 years in the trade. I still try to keep up with the latest as much as I can. I will enjoy cars until my dying day. I have heard of low speed pre ignition in direct injected vehicles but didn't know exactly what causes it. Your explanation was what I wanted to know. We also likely agree that somehow the public would find a way to ruin an engine made from industrial diamonds. I had customers ask me how a failure happened on their car and sometimes I had to say that I didn't know exactly. Looks like someone filled your engine with spray foam. LoL.
Good to hear your endorsement of Amsoil products. I use it in everything. Have never had a failure of a lubricated, internal engine component in a total of 700,000 miles spread between 3 vehicles.
Alex at Legit Street Cars is an Amsoil fan and also one of their distributors in Chicago. Go to his channel and order from him and you get a big discount! ( I'm nothing to do with either businesses, as I live in the UK, but am a subscriber to both Dave, and Alex)
@@samrodian919 Thanks. I'm actually a preferred customer and get fairly good discounts ordering direct from Amsoil.
Fresh oil is more important than brand of oil, but I will say amsoil is good. I'm very partial to pennzoil platinum
I worked in a dealership that was bought out by another dealership.......they started having bulk motor oil delivered into a tank. We had NO IDEA what oil we were being made to put into cars. At the time the corvettes were coming with Mobil 1. They made us use the bulk oil they were buying............I left there in a hurry ! ! ! ! !
GM still uses Mobil 1 as their Dexos rated oil. I use Supercar in my Blackwing
@@mitchellwilson8463
I can tell you with absolute certainty, VW / AUDI OEM oil is Castrol. If you don't use Castrol, make sure the Oil rating is A3/B3, A3/B4. If you don't see this on the bottle, stay away unless it's an emergency. If the bottle doesn't say European on it anywhere, chances are you have an incompatible product.
Old European formula is the death elixir for Direct injection.
Hi calcium just like in diesel oil causes spark knock on Direct injection.
@@pigg20021 VW/Audi OEM oil hasn't been castrol for the past 4 or so years. They have been using Mobil for all 0w30, 0w40, 5w40, and 10w60 since. i work for audi
I only use Castrol Edge A3/B4 in my Audi … it’s not even expensive so I’m not sure why people deviate from OEM spec? Cheers Drew
I know nothing about cars outside changing my own oil. But I can’t get enough of these videos. Fascinating stuff to watch masters work.
Ty so much brother - I'll be driving gently well warming up and changing my oil 2 times what is recommended. I've been wrenching for years but you never stop learning. This man is the best out there.
Engine designers moving the starter motor to under the intake manifold on V engines also is kind of crazy, adding a lot of stuff to remove for a simple starter repair.
Dave always makes me want to switch professions to being a mechanic, such an amazing practical teacher. 👏
Much love from Bosnia, Dave. Love your videos and your character, super calming, chill, knowledgable guy. You and a few other guys on youtube made me want to pick up repairing and servicing my own stuff.
I learn something with every video Dave puts out! Thanks Dave & the Team!
Thanks, Dave. I learned something important about modern engines, rings, and why they require low viscosity oil. I'm old school and find it hard to change my stubborn ways. I tend to think heavy oil provides more cushion between parts, but never considered the fact that rings are lighter than they once were and how piston cooling needs a low vis oil.
Super job!
I really wish all mechanics would learn from your shop! Truly aspirational. God bless you guys 🇺🇸
4:46 Hola señor Dave!!! Gracias for teaching us the importance of using the right oil and those letters and numbers have a lot of importance to lubricate properly the engine…Gracias for sharing your wisdom with all of us your followers 😅
Part of the issue is the shifting strategy of modern transmissions. They often lug the engine at low RPMs, which is the perfect condition for LSPI.
Yes, I have noticed this on numerous friends cars. I tell them to gently press on accelerator pedal to get trans to drop down a gear. I drive a 5 Speed manual so I'm in control, not a computer.
this is why i floor my RS5
Yupp 100%
@@robertcambareri1028manual owners try not to mention they drive a manual challenge(impossible)
You wouldn’t believe how many comments I read “ahhh new oil on modern cars you can just start up and drive away as soon as the RPM’s go down”
Great advice. Always warm up your car. Especially a performance car.
I am shop owner from Malaysia dealing with Peugeot n Citroen cars diagnostic and repair. Peugeot 1.6 direct injection turbo common issue here.can't explained how this happened to the customer when ever the customer asked. Learn today from u another knowledge gain from u. Hope that a shop like your here
Wish all shops worked like this.
I recently had to get a direct injection engine for my car rebuilt because of carbon buildup burning out valves(from previous owner).
Amazing how oil can make such a huge difference in an engine.
Thanks Dave for your amazing and detailed videos!
I wish I had gone into this trade and wish i could work with and speak to Dave. What a great personality and amazingly great and honest person. Love the channel and content! Great team and keep up the amazing work!
Fantastic customer service and amazing skill!
It will never cease to amaze me how cheap people can be. Oil is cheaper than metal.
As a mobile mechanic who does a lot of oil changes if I had a penny for everytime I said that to a customer. The 1.8/2.0T Audi/VW's drink oil. The 2.0 holds like 5 to 5.5qts. Every single one I do has 2 to 4qts at the most come out.
tell me youve never owned a German car without telling me
VW biggest oil burners of any cars
And yes this is just a fancy plastic VW
Some of them will burn like 1 QT every 1000km and the dealership will tell you its normal
nice to see someone that knows what he's doing 👍
This has turned into my favorite channel
Dave, just FYI, Millennium Technologies and one or two other places can redo nikasil and other plated bores. Not sure if they can do car blocks but they’ve done several motocross cylinders for me with great results.
Also, thank you for your work and your channel. It’s been a great education and serves as a great example for how to treat customers and your people.
Thanks for the follow-up - that's what everybody wanted to see! I'd be curious what people think the "quote" will be. Dave is the best!
I'm at the point, as an audi owner and had one of these and a w12 I worked on personally, they did this as a "racing standard". Their idea is run it hard, drop it out, put new one in, repair and repeat. No prevention possible for these timing guides, it's a when not if. Love getting to see my favorite brand up on the lift! Always something to learn.
im no mechanic by any means but i sure love cars and im enjoying this channel and content. and transparency and good costumer service always wins
Man you guys are thorough. I really appreciate the transparency. I wish yall were closer.
Love watching from the uk.
Wow! The new videographer is amazing. The channel just went to the next level!
Dave, I wish your shop was closer. I am in PA and you are out in UT. I'd bring all of my cars to you in a heartbeat. Not too many people like you that take the time to explain everything. You seem like you have a very successful business over there and it shows due to the techs you hire, how you treat them and how you treat other people. Keep up the great work. You earned a new sub.
I was greatly impressed by your Tech, Alejandro, before you showed his tool box. He is efficient, thorough, and well trained. Not to mention making a good salary as well. Keep up the good work!
I'm sure he's earning every penny Hard, dirty, tiring work!
Rather than $50,000 in student debt you have $50,000 in tools. But the thing that’s not talked about is how this engine may cost $30,000 to replace, this repair may cost $20,000 to do, and all it takes is one pinched o-ring, one missed knick in the cylinder wall, one bad spray pattern injector, one piece of metal he couldn’t see, and either the whole job has to be done again or he will be screamed at by the boss as they then have to make it right.
Guess who gets to do the repair again for free if there is one thing he misses, didn’t catch, was unable to see etc.
i got the same engine in my sq5 ... they are incredible motors but these stories are not great to hear - thank u for the great explanation and teardown!
The analogies really hit home, Sir.
Previous owner most likely tuned the car. When the new owner bough it he was most likely unaware of it and put the wrong fuel in it.
Email the popular tuning companies to confirm if there is or isn't a 93 oct or E40 tune on it. Which would for sure cause pre-ignition and engine failure as described if the new owner did not put the proper fuel grade in it.
Do these "tunes" simply ignore the knock sensor data?
@@gregorymalchuk272 at least one did or at least kept the timing advanced when it should not have, although it was revised and is perhaps better now. The company that made it even made a video showing the stock tune changing the timing to avoid said knock, trying to suggest the issue with their tune was based on the cars OEM tune trying to make sure it wasn't going to blow itself to bits.
As an Audi enthusiast i can only agree on the stupidity behind the decission to place the cam-gear/chain in the back. BMW does it as well now. Supposedly the bell housing absorbs the "noise" of the chain drive. Love your work guys. Greetings from Denmark
What you were saying at around 250-3 minutes hit home. I believe in my work and believe that I can tear down any engine and fix or diagnose it. I'm 23 with passion and a dream, went to trade school. Made 30k my first year out on track to make 50 and I still fell like my level of work deserves more. I applaud Alejandro and hope to follow in his path swiftly
This should be the top comment. $80k within 5 years is incredibly unlikely unless you put in 60+ hours a week. At that point you might as well make minimum wage because your quality of life suffers just as much as living in poverty. Gen Z is realizing this in addition to other economic factors and opting out...
Dave - love your channel so much. I'm a massive petrol head (yep in the UK) and I'm doing engineering at college so use your videos and knowledge for my research too. I was aware of 0w/20 oil and the pitfalls of GDI but here you have explained everything so well. Thank you. And it's a heart warming change to see a boss who sees his team as assets rather then numbers. In these awful times where no-one gives a s*%t about anyone, it is a breath of fresh air. I owe a lot to my late grandfather and as he raised me, taught me all I know and instilled the love of cars and engineering and your guidance for those guys reminds me so much of that so it hits home with me. Thank you for all your work! Richie
Dave this is like masters level engine science, Class 5109 PreCombustion.
Hello Dave, thank you for the knowledge you are spreading with your videos. I like longer content like this (or even more). I do an apprenticeship as a mecanic and I find your videos are very interesting and useful.
Greetings from Switzerland. 🇨🇭
Just reminded me of the older ford Explorer timming chains back in the day they still trigger me thank god they aint around anymore. Love the channel big G'day from Australia 🇦🇺
Been loving Amsoil for my stuff for years! Cheers, great video.
Awesome diagnostic on that S5, they truly are high spec engines, when I had a rs4 I would not move until it moved the water temp reading 👍,
Dave, it's amazing how much I learn from you vids, Google legend and I'm sure there's a picture of you.. your mechanics are something else. Definitely the shop to go to in the U.S. 💪💪💪💪
Dave I love your channel and I wanted to say you have the luckiest employees in the world. What a pleasure it would be to look forward to going to work everyday at your shop with a boss that cares. Keep up the great work you are doing. Looking forward to your next video. 💙
Stepping out on a limb here but I have this car (Audi S5) with this AE839 engine and it’s a terrific car and it’s high tech, not to mention it’s wicked fast even stock.
The car isn’t the problem, once again it’s people the problem. People put these shit popcorn tunes so they can squeeze more power yet fail to do proper research on the car. You said it yourself, you put the wrong oil, drive like a maniac out of the gate, and don’t do proper maintenance, I don’t know of many engines today that will tolerate that kind of abuse. If you want high performance then buy an RS5 or RS6 and stop being broke.
These aren’t your dad’s big V8, these are sophisticated engines that offer great fuel economy and that need the best fuel, proper warm up times not to mention the correct fluids to work correctly as intended.
If you want to crazy horsepower figures, buy a skyline GtR.
Lastly, this is why I do shit myself, you’d be surprised how much you can do yourself with the right tools and RUclips. Buy OE parts, the workshop manual and do all the routine maintenance. No way dealerships will put the same amount of love in your car like you can.
One badass video editor you have! Good work!
Dave rocks ❤
Absolutely love this channel for this stuff.
This is also why installing spark plugs with a torque wrench to spec is VERY important on DI. They are clocked specifically to the injector to that torque value.
Dave... Thanks from salt Lake City.. You make us proud.
Great work, Great Integrity, Wonderful RUclips Channel.
Dave, I've been out of the business for 10 years. Still do plenty of work at home in my own shop for myself and others, but if I were local, I would come work for you in a heartbeat!
Love your video quality and explanation.
Eye opening info. Thanks Dave and Alejandro
Howd that go again Dave? Boop boop booop. Not trashing you by any means. I love the way you explain
Great to hear Dave talk about oils. I do my own changes because shops got annoyed with me asking for the spec. You wanna make sure your heart gets the correct blood type, right?
Excellent information🙏👍🏼 Car owner is lucky to have you in his corner.
Think the 3 litre Duramax also has it’s timing belt in the rear
Congrats to all the Men out there working with your hands and brains to build and maintain the Society.
A society who thinks less of honest work.
I believe that you’re a great mechanic,and your employees are better than good.Yall blow me away with your knowledge.❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
M
Like how you handled this. I like liquimoly.
Thanks for the follow up show. I have read that the calcium detergent (oil additive) causes hot spots that act like diesel glow plugs and cause pre-ignition and that causes issue because direct injection petrol engines run higher compression than other injection types ( it injects on the compression stroke not the intake stroke, therefore allowing for higher compression without pre-detonation). The api sp oil has greatly reduced this detergent additive and has increased the magnesium detergent additive.
Thanks for all these videos i adopted your work methood 4 C's on my own cars. All the way from South Africa.
Another great video considering I have 2 with the 3.0T. That also is one way to pull an engine.
I believe H2 motors in Germany specializes in honing and rebuilding nikasil engines. The bmw S65 and S85 engines have nikasil cylinder walls and they have a special process to bring the silicone to the surface.
Yeah, Sreten (M539) had great success with them
Yes, nikasil can be restored. Probably ain’t cheap.
@blipco5 lol the video involved tearing apart the bottom end and replacing the piston. Cheap left the chat a long time ago.
Still a specialized process, but its Alusil on the S85 and S65.
Nikasil was used on the older engines during the 90’s.
I'm sold on your channel boss
I drive a direct injected 2.0 turbocharged VW GTI. Now I REALLY understand why its important to get the oil to temp [180°] before bringing the revs up over 4k-rpm
As well as using Top Tier high detergent gas AND fuel additive.
Dave u guys are a great inspiration for me to keep learning and building every day ❤️👊 kind regards from the netherlands
" Now I gotta call the customer " is my favorite part of your videos.
Edit: All the fluids in my 2022 camry awd are Amsoil. I plan on keeping the car till it dies although I might die first.
Another great masterclass! Thank you sir!
7:32 yes! Especially with performance cars, always warm up the engine first. Get it up to operating temp, and then let the oil temp warm up as well.
Very informative. Thanks for sharing.
Hi sir I am great fan of your work and learning new things from you 🛠️🔧
Another awesome video, Dave, thank you sir
Love it dave, keep up the good work!
You're a great teacher. Keep up the great videos.
There ya go... You're welcome Dave.
You should have a school, well you do on youtube but man, I learn so much from your videos
now the video color is more comfortable nice!!!
Love it - great as always Dave I learned cpl new things. The rear timing chain is evil, and direct injection is not worth the extra HP you can squeeze out.
I have an Audi 3.0T engine and it is pretty weird. I'm always scared of braking it. These cars are cool but they are unusual. Nice work Dave and team, as usual. Sounds like a cool customer too.
Love the videos, thanks a lot