How Much Bit in the Collet? - CNC For Beginners
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2018
- How Much Bit in the Collet - CNC For the Absolute Beginner
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This is another in a series of videos geared toward the person who is just getting started in the home CNC hobby.
In this video, we’ll get into how much of the router bit end mill’s shank goes into the collet.
One of the more common questions asked by folks just getting into the CNC hobby is how far to put the shank of the end mill into the collet. While that might seem simple to some folks, others may have never used a router before, and don’t know a few of the little tips we’ve picked up over the years In this video I’ll give you some examples using a couple of different bits and end mills.
I’ve put links to all of the bits and end mills I talk about in this video below. Some of these links are affiliate links, which will help support this channel, and some links are not. I am in no way endorsed, nor sponsored by any of the bit or collet manufacturers mentioned. I offer these links to allow you to see exactly what I’m talking about for yourself.
As usual, if you have any comments or questions, please put ‘em in the comment section below.
Thanks for watching!
Links to the tools shown in this video:
Elaire Crop - Router Collets: www.elairecorp.com/routercolle...
Bosch 1/4” Downcut Spiral Bit: amzn.to/2RIXazB
Whiteside 1/4” Downcut Spiral Bit: amzn.to/2CXgpkL
CMT 90° v-bit: amzn.to/2CXguVB
Magnate 90° v-bit: amzn.to/2Exvesl
Yonico .25" Ballnose: .25" shank - amzn.to/2GFR4dK
Yonico .125" Ballnose: .25" shank - amzn.to/2GF0beT
EnPointe .125" Ballnose: .125" shank - amzn.to/2GHot80
Freud 1.25" Surfacing Bit: amzn.to/2GGyPF9
Magnate 1.25” Surfacing Bit: amzn.to/2J7Uzvd
10-pack of 1/8" Downcut Spiral Endmills: ebay.to/2EvlNLK
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marklindsaycnc.com/index.php/p...
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For more information on, or to download a free trial of Cut 2D, VCarve, or Aspire, visit the Vectric website at:
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Хобби
So...after breaking TWO $33 Whiteside bowl bits, I decided to do some double-loop learning and re-evaluate my, "assumptions." Yeah; I know what they say about, "assume" and they're always right! I came back and watched this video, threw a third bowl bit in and everything worked as advertised! Imagine that?! I was looking at everything: chipload formulas, feeds and speeds, etc. The issue: too much shank below the collet. All of that spindle torque and stress was snapping the bit right at the collet. Thanks for taking a really important aspect of carving with a CNC and talking me off a limb! I've still got more to learn and unlearn.
Thank you, Mark! Another great video! You are teaching me everything that I need to know, in a very methodical and meaningful way!
Perfect info. Thank you.
Hi Mark. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time. I am new to CNC and people like yourself makes my life a lot easier. All the best this Festive Season.
Thank you very much, Klaus! My best to you ans yours as well!
Thank you Mark, for taking time from your chaotic time to share some more helpful information. MERRY CHRISTMAS my friend
Thank you Troy. Have a merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year!
Good tips! Thanks, Mark! Happy New Year, my friend!
Thanks, Matt!!! Happy New Year to you and yours as well!
Handy tips! Much appreciated!
Thanks for this video. You are a really good teacher. Merry Christmas from Spain
Thank you very much! Have a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Years.
Thank you mark . Excellent as usual !
Thank you, Don!
Good info Mark, have a Great Christmas Holidays.
Have a Merry Christmas, Geert!
Good info Mark, have a Great Christmas Holidays, Cheers
Thank you Andrew. Have a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year!
Great tips for the router! I do the backing out as well...just slightly.
I was a little bit surprised that so many folks didn't know about that. It's just one of those little things you pick up along the way. I totally forgot that to a lot of folks, their first experience with a router or spindle is on a CNC machine, and it's not something that gets mentioned a lot.
Thanks Eloy!
Great information Mark.
Thank you, Steve!
Great Video Mark. One thing to add that all amana bits have a "K" mark on them to let you know how far into the collet you need to place it.
Thank you Jeff! You're absolutely right - some bit manufacturers mark their bits, but they're in the minority - most don't. I didn't want to confuse the issue by adding too much info.
Thx Mark I had not thought about the tapered area. A safety concern.
You're welcome, Ken. It's something to watch out for on all routers and spindles - CNC or hand held.
Another great video, Mark. As always, I learned some new things. I use o-rings on my bits as a stop to make sure I have the bits inserted the right amount. I have a little block of wood that's drilled to the shank size, and the depth of full insertion. When my o-rings get out of position or alignment, I can use that wooden gauge to reposition the o-ring on the shaft. I've been thinking about cementing the o-ring to the proper postion on the bits. Do you think that's a good idea, and what kind of cement would you use? Thanks.
Thanks, Jim!
Cool idea! I don't know that I'd cement the o-rings in place though. I mean, it wouldn't be too much of a pain to recheck them with that jig. I might look into doing the same on my 1/8" shank bits that don't have the collar on them. Thanks for the idea!
@@MarkLindsayCNC I don't know that it's necessary, but I used the red silicone rings in case of heat buildup when used in a router table:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FN0X04/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have quite a collection of broken or bent bits, mostly because I need just a few mm pulled out more than recommended.. It often turns out more expensive than getting a longer bit..
I can understand the expense on the work you do. I imagine bits that big aren't cheap. It's even more expensive when you have to buy a second bit to finish the job.
i hop eu would also explain step by step procedures on about 3d carving cut , how u change the tool after roughing for finishing .
Thank you very much! I have that on my list.
A problem I often have is with flat end-mills with large stepover. They loosen themselves because of the force they encounter from digging into the material. After they loosen themselves, they slip downwards, and I effectively end up with a more negative actual Z number, than what I started with
I've never encountered that problem, but you may want to look into getting a new collet. Collets do wear out and lose their ability to grip the shank of a bit. If it's not gripping the shank of the bit tight enough, that can lead to all kinds of problems. I don't know if you're using a spindle or a router, but I've found that for router collets, my go-to place is Elaire Corp. They have a huge selection of router collets for many different brands and models of routers. If you're using a spindle, it would be worth investing in a new collet in whichever ER size your spindle takes. As for a "large stepover," most bit manufacturers agree that you shouldn't exceed 1/2 of the bit's cutting diameter. I follow that advice and have yet to have a problem.
@@MarkLindsayCNC I figured it out. The nature of the problem is thermal. These tools cut out significant amount of material, and heat up. As they heat up, the grip weakens. I tend to use light tightening when I put the tool in. The problem is significantly worse when I run in higher speeds or higher stepovers, because more heat is produced, which loosens the grip. I use an ER11 collet nut, and the same problem happens in different bits of different sizes in different collets
If the tool is getting hot, your RPMs are too high, your feed rate is too slow, or a combination of the two. Once the spindle stops, you should be able to grab hold of that bit bare-handed and it should just be a little bit warm. If it's hot to the touch, that's your problem.
@@MarkLindsayCNC you're spot on there. Trouble is, it's a positive feedback loop. Once it gets hot, it slips downwards and gets even hotter. It's counter intuitive (and untrue?) that higher feeds result in a LOWER temperature. As my tool slips downwards, it effectively encounters more material, similar to what would happen in a higher feed.
The thing is, you want the flutes to cut and eject chips. Those chips take the heat with them. Slowing down the router/spindle RPM or increasing the feed rate (or a combination of the two) make the flutes of the bit cut larger chips and eject them. Your bit slipping down does encounter more material - vertically. It's still cutting the same sized chip, and is retaining even more heat in the process because it's cutting deeper. The point is, the flute(s) need more time to cut and eject larger chips, which will take the heat with them as they're ejected. You can accomplish this by slowing down the router/spindle RPM, speeding up the feed rate, or a combination of the two.
hi Mark , i have a metabo router with a 1/2 shank on a gbrl shield cnc , but 1/2 bits are way more expensive than 1/4 , my question is if i want to save some $ can i use a 1/2 to 1/4 collet adapter ? if yes how long do the adapters last or if its a common practice or even safe ,. hopefully you can get back to me ,, ps love your channel have learned alot
Personally, I don't like collet adapters. They vibrate, come loose, and add runout to the whole bit to router/spindle connection. Much better to get a 1/4 inch collet for your router (they're not expensive.) Just do a Google search for your model of router. Some models, like the M12VC use the same collet as the Bosch 1618 (from what I've read,) but you should do your own research. If all else fails, contact Metabo, or look for a manual to see if they list a part number for a 1/4 inch collet.
Thanks for the info! i've been wondering this myself.
Nice PT jacket but wheres your PT belt?!?!?!
Thanks Charles!
PT belt? PT BELT? Son, when I was in the army, we didn't get run over by cars - we ran over the cars! In cadence!
@@MarkLindsayCNC You had cars back during the Revolution? Ha!
Love your videos. keep em coming.
Hey Mark what's up with the Army PT top?
I did 9 years active duty, and my wife retired after 22 years. We both earned them.
cool
Mark please help as i dont know to turn to, my 3040 router keeps loosing its zero referance point mid way through a cut. I have checked everything, all clamps are in place and all lead screws are lubed, i have have redone my programe andchanged jobs with no joy. I use aspire and mach3.
Shoot me a PM on Facebook and we'll see what we can do.
Hey mark where abouts in Oregon are you located...I'm in eugene
I'm down south of you a bit, near Medford.
Please add: shank is longer than the collect. Thanks for the video
That's not necessarily true, Harry. I have several bits that have a shank that is shorter than the collet.
@@MarkLindsayCNC That's not what I meant. The shank on some of my bits is long enough to go through the collet and than some.I tend to let it extend about 1/8" beyond the collet. However; this means that the bit between the collet and work piece could be too long making it easier to break a bit
Okay, I see what you're getting at. I don't like to push the end of the shank through the collet. I'll leave it flush, but not sticking through. I've never had a problem with breakage (other than the .023" end mill I dropped on the concrete floor.) And to be honest, if the bit is that long, you'll need to adjust your feed and plunge rate to keep deflection down to a minimum, anyway. That or it might be time to look into some shorter bits.