How I Ruined My Latest Project -
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- I became obsessed about an idea to improve the efficiency of producing DIY breathing masks. But through a series of unfortunate errors, I ended up running into a metaphorical brick wall for a couple days. Here's what I was working on, how I screwed up, and what I learned.
Also, in light of the fact that I failed to produce anything useful, I decided to donate my previous month's Patreon earnings to Feeding America. Please consider helping those around you any way you can during these times.
www.feedingame...
Note: The mask concept I was working on was incomplete in several areas. I had not yet worked out how to install the filter piece in the front. There would have likely been a small printed insert either snapped on, or glued on. Also, I had not yet figured out how to attach elastic to the mask. Most likely candidate IMO would have been to solvent weld small loops to anchor straps to the mask body.
The Destin Clause ( • We Made Face Shields -...
If you do choose to try and take a radical approach, make sure you do so in a way that doesn't disrupt existing efforts and drags other people down with you.
--
Help support my experimental CNC content: / winstonmoy
Stalk me on Social Media: @WinstonMakes (insta/twitter)
I also contribute instructional content on the Carbide3D Channel: / carbide3d
Tools I Use: www.winstonmoy....
(Legal Blurb - By using my affiliate links, you are helping to support my content.)
Merch-y Things: teespring.com/...
The only true failure is failing to learn from a mistake. This is clearly not that. Thank you for sharing.
Very well said Jack, I'll have to remember this for the future.
Also, thanks to Winston for the motivational pep talk.
Fix it with some filler and hand sanding! It’s close enough to save and make work for the time being
That's what I was thinking, just use some automotive bondo and sand it smooth.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough.
I honestly don't know how you feel this is a failure or even worth scrapping. The mold is an organic shape that does not have to fit into a perfect cavity with a certain tolerance, per say and the plug certainly could/should/would be perfectly fine if hand sanding and filing is used. You most likely would need to seal the mdf mold anyway with gluesize, shellac, epoxy, etc. and sand to a pretty smooth surface prior to molding. I think you should keep trying and prove the vac forming concept. One big drawback that I see in these printed masks is the rigidity of the material. Most 3M respirators (cartridge types for organic vapor) are almost a molded rubber/silicone material that conforms to the face. In that vein, I wonder if a silicone mold and settable and suitable durometer plastic would be a better approach...probably not due to the costs of these materials.
For vacuum forming its better to not seal the buck. You want to draw air through it to eliminate air bubbles and pockets. I was aiming for something slightly more flexible than cheap disposable plastic plates.
The problem with this mold isnt that I couldn't form something over it, it's that I can't position it accurately anymore and use it to cut the vacuum formed pieces and create the interface for a filter.
Couldn't this error have been fixed with some sandpaper?
The problem with this mold isn't that I couldn't form something over it, it's that I can't position it accurately anymore and use it to cut out the vacuum formed pieces and create the interface for a filter.
Couldn't more material be added such as a high density spray foam to the surface of the buck. From there resurfacing could be done?
@@WinstonMakes that can also be done by Hand
it's boring, yes, but it works
My studio has boxes of "failed projects" Each and every one led to better technique and different approaches. Failure is one of the best teachers. Thanks for sharing one of your "failures". I look forward to your next project. I hope you enjoyed your ride.
especially the failures of others, so you don't have to make them again
My shop has a box of firewood :) I have no failures, just fancy fire logs.
Opportunity has not passed. This is not going away anytime soon. I'm a member of Annapolis Makerspace in MD, and the inquiries and requests from nursing homes, hospitals, and emergency services has only increased over the last few weeks. We have been using our resources to produce as much PPE as possible (3d printed faceshields, sewing fabric facemasks, etc) and cannot even begin to meet the demand locally.
I understand the need to protect your mental health/sanity. I definitely go through all of the emotions, from feeling like I've actually done something, to deep sadness that I can't do enough, to extreme anger that it is somehow the expectation that hobbyists can solve a problem caused by our federal leadership who has failed us so badly.
The unfortunate fact is that we are where we are and all of us need to do what we can to make a difference. When and if you have the energy and resources to get back to this, please do. You are absolutely correct about the increased throughput. You can reach a lot of people in a lot of different places. You can make a huge difference. Thanks for trying and putting it out there.
considering some of the areas in china have gone back into lockdown, i also dont see this going away anytime soon.
People are jumping the gun and think it's safe to go back to their regular life when the numbers show a slightly flattened curve. Even governments are mistakenly thinking this.
Fwiw, after the first couple of times of machining my workholding bolts, I switched over to brass-only bolts, and haven't looked back.
Errors happen every once in a while, but brass' softness makes it much more likely that my end mill will be alright.
Thanks for sharing.
Similar story here but went to nylon fasteners.
Jake Mercer what thread pitch? Don’t they strip? This is new for me and extremely interesting
Oh man I really wish you can try this again when you have the opportunity! I have a small form factor cnc and acrylic molding seems to be a great alternative to making plastic parts, I'm super interested in this. :)
Winston, I was against you shelving the project until you made mention of doing so for your own mental health. Exercising self-care is an important aspect of good self-leadership. So, good for you. It seems you took away other valuable lessons from your so-called "failure", and that's a good thing.
I, for one, don't view your attempt at machining a buck to thermoform respirators a failure at all! Aside from the homing/zeroing error, the ball screw and v-wheel fracture that led to the mis-machinging were both out of your control.
So, once you're back in a good head space, get back in the garage, repair that CNC and get back to the brilliant work of which you're so capable!
Thanks for the incredible view of the rainbow at the end!
Be well and do good work!
Oh, boy. Just sand it manually
Exactly!
I'm a cnc mill programmer. The shop I work at does a lot of one off parts in stainless and other heat resistant materials like Inconel, monel, etc... Nailing our 'projects' the first time around is our game... Failure (though a great teacher) can get expensive fast and it doesn't take much
The Buck can still be 3D printed, and used as a vacuum form....if you print in ABS the vapor bath for smoothness....
Great video Winston! =)
Winston... Just hand sand it, no shame in having a one off hand finished mold for your proof of concept.
Seems like a great concept that just went wrong because of the machine being slightly broken?
The go-cart thing - reminded me vaguely of Richard Feynman's critique of the top-down design of the Space Shuttle's main engines which had similar issues - well worth a read!
Name of the book?
@@pickerjim9246 It's published online - on Feynman's website in plain text I think
Small point really, but the holes on the wrong side could be fixed with what we in Australia call Builder's Bog - probably Bondo in the US. I have saved numbers of projects where I have removed material I shouldn't have, with the judicious application of Bondo. I'm not sure about how secure it would be to apply Bondo the outside of your model and then re machine it - maybe roughening the surface so it could "key in".
I make a lot of mistakes and an advantage of that is learning techniques of how to rescue disasters.
Why not use 3d printing to make that mold?!?
It's a good idea that did cross my mind. My biggest concern was that hot ABS, which was the sheet material I sourced, could fuse to the PLA (only filament I have). BUT... Instead of worrying about hypotheticals, sometimes it's best to just try it. When I get around to making a vacuum table I'll give it a try on a smaller scale.
Amazing that you show other guys that not all projects come perfect at the first time. Great video.
If you are not failing at least half of the time then you are just not challenging yourself enough. You'll never reach your full potential either.
Thanks for sharing! Your video just gave me the answer to another problem I was having... not because of any particular failure, but I hadn't considered vacuum forming for my project. Until now. Thanks.
Ever thought about creating a mold for a mask, but create it using the top of a PET bottle, Heat it up and press it on to form the shape, then, you only need an adapter for the nozzle/screw thread to a suitable filter. Was going to peruse that here, but we are lucky enough to not have been that badly effected.
use some bondo or wood filler and sand it into shape. it's a vacuum form, it doesnt have to be perfect, just has to work.
Nice work, i never tryed something like this. Yesterday i make three mistakes and broke 2 1/8" bits and i send second gcode without load it in sender... But this error teach a lot of things :) if you want to see my last job ruclips.net/video/tAwAJDCqg7A/видео.html (i have few videos of 3D carvings).
Continue your work and i "love" your easy understanding videos (I'm from Catalonia and i understand all and not's easy for me jejeje).
Pd: i need to ty to make one zero corner easy finder like you i never tried to cut aluminum with my cnc and its full aluminum body cnc (more robust in theory).
You should continue. Like other people said it isnt going away soon and this is a great idea.
Hello, I will dig up the topic a bit, very interesting material, I have a question, what material did you mill it in? and I was curious about the method of finishing milling, where did you mill the top and bottom with what kind of milling cutter? and would it be possible to share this file, because soon I will have several complicated forms for milling, this method seemed very interesting to me and I would like to get to know it better :)
Failure is the BEST way to LEARN. Don't ever give up, just try something else. Everyone FAILS more than they succeed, but it's those that keep trying and eventually succeed that change the world. It is the success that defines us, and how we pick ourselves back up for the next attempt, it is NOT the failure that defines us rather it is the failures that we learn from which is what makes people successful!!!
Regarding the counterbores in the wrong side... plugs glued in would repair that easily...
Plastic wheels should be replaced with brass at least... for longevity (do u have a small lathe ?)... and really... machine-maintenance is something you should be doing on a scheduled basis... as a production engineer, I have learned over the years that prevention is paramount... ALL manufacturers have maintenance-schedules , they can't afford unscheduled downtime in the middle of a run. 🙄
Not beating ya up here, just making some suggestions.
Good luck !! 🙄🙂
😎👍☘🍺
Why not make a 3d printed vacuforming mold?
My biggest concern was that hot ABS, which was the sheet material I sourced, could fuse to the PLA (only filament I have). BUT... Instead of worrying about hypotheticals, sometimes it's best to just try it. When I get around to making a vacuum table I'll give it a try on a smaller scale.
@@WinstonMakes
You will probably have to coat the 3d print in epoxy anyways to smooth it out. Maybe print the design and coast it in a thermally stable material? Then you can make multiple mask forms for each run.
Learning from mistakes is the best way of learning, at least for me. It's the only way I remember it permanently.
Man, CNC CAM it's still hard to do. Way harder than 3d printing. But...
You can make to mould for vaccum forming in a normal 3d printer. I don't think it will melt.
Maybe you didn't show it well, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you gave up. Your finished positive is slightly imperfect from your mistakes, sure, but a little sanding paper and you can have a decent chance of vacuum forming from it without issue. A vacuum forming rig from Shapeoko would be a great product!
You have not failed. You are only experiencing a temporary setback. Sadly, I think that you still have plenty of time to finish the project because the crisis is far from being over. Why don’t you post the fusion 360 model on grabcad and let the community have a crack at it? I’m more than willing to help.
@Winston Moy, Love your videos, can you please explain how you are using different size of end mills and drill bits with makita router, makita has a 1/4 collet right? is there other sizes of collets for makita router. Thanks
Hello Winston, I'm a tool and die maker at a food container company (Genpak) we use thermoforming to make our product. You sparked my imagination of using the process to make your design. When we are prototyping a new design it's time from concept to product in hand could be a time problem. Any way if I could help you in any way please ask. Like your narration while watching your video.
Well, looks like I won't be going with that Carbide3D machine. I'm not a fan of those V-Wheels on a gantry router. They are already using linear rails on Z axis, why not on the gantry X axis?
@07:02 Owning a similar designed but highly modified X-Carve ( imgur.com/a/04LhFJN ) THIS was my first thought to potentially happen when I got the machine back in 2015 though so far nothing like that has happened to me. Pretty sure one day I'll be making the change to linear rails anyway because of the occasional wheel on the X-/Y-Axis coming loose.
Great to see the process - and I echo that the opportunity has not passed (you may not want to hear that :)) - I think it is a great idea to vacuum form. This has shown that 3D printers are an amazing tool - but that they may not always be the 'production' tool unless you have volume (a farm) - despite having 3 printers I have used the laser cutter for shields and it can churn out 100 a day as pooped to 5. The meds have also commented on how easy they are to clean overnight. So I love the different path, and they were mistakes we all make (I just recessed bolts on the wrong side of a frame for a deck chair - who does that!)). Keep doing what you are doing!!
@3:34, from my experience, you can't merge the 2 bodies because of zero gap error. Seems like your sketch was drawn referencing the edge. Try making the new body a bit oversized.
I had some of your issues too and learned a lot about the reproducability of homing./zeroing My cnc controller board is susceptable to ground loops and locks up sometimes. When it happens I have to rezero. Sometimes you machine away your reference points. What I do in those cases is use the homing switches, zero the axes, then read the machine coordinates of the zeroed axes and copy/paste them if and when the board locks up. This has saved me so many times. I use a laptop instead of a desktop pc now and the lock ups have never happend again but on important projects I still use this technique.
I agree that 3D-printing is not a solution. I see people on facebook and instagram screaming in my face that '3D printing is going to save us from the pandemic'. But in the end they are mostly people that want to make a positive image about themselves while deep inside they know that 3D printed respirators are not the solution. It is time that people realize that only in extreme cases it can be a solution. For example with the drip connectors that were printed in Italy, but once again, this story is missing a big part of the nuance, it wasn't an FDM/FFF printer, you could never make medically safe drip and reliable connectors with an FDM/FFF printer. Also, mass-producing parts with a 3D-printer will cause more waste than making one injection mold and mass producing with that machine. It may be more work to start up, but once it's going it's simple, safe and controllable.
Posting before finishing the video -- I wanted to add...we have a vacuum former at our makerspace and it is a fickle bitch. One big thing I've learned using it is when possible...use a negative form instead of a positive buck. The positive shapes almost always have folds around the peripherals where joints don't pull smoothly. As the vacuum pulls, the majority of the material is eaten up by the form leaving little for the void, resulting in stretching.. The justification for suggesting negative space is - look at the solo cup. As the material draws into the void it experiences the same forces on all sides, leaving the majority of the material to comply in all directions outwards.
Addendum after finishing the video. Thanks for sharing and trying to do your part. It definitely can be frustrating when every part of a project goes sideways. when the machine that makes the machine breaks it it hard to not 'blame your tools' but in this case it's worth the mental credits. Enjoy that sun!
Awesome video great to see potential problems that I may see when I get my machine. Glad to learn about but positioning of the bit a zeroing. 🎨🤙🏼🎣 thanks for the info.
Your successfull rate is pretty good. I made so much prototype for whatever I make that I do not even count the first attempts...are all pre-produciton models :-)
I don't really get why the shape has to be perfect though, pretty sure it would still be an effective mask with a bit of lopsidedness, could use a sanding drum on a rotary tool or similar to blend over the problem spots? I understand being annoyed by having problems like this but it also seems at least to me you got annoyed by a failure of a tool/methodology and binned the whole project when you could still probably recover something that works but might not be pretty using a more manual workflow
you shouldn't have given up. Never give up, never surrender. Thats my mado. And this is not going to be the last Pandemic in our lifetime. Take a rest and then try again. learn form the mistakes you made at first and don't make them again.
Every time I mess up a project, I learn something new (and hopefully useful). Thanks for sharing.
I hang my CNC failures on the Wall of Shame in my shop. Not to dwell on the mistakes, but to remind me of the missteps and how to avoid them in the future. Thanks for sharing yours.
Yep know that so wel not being able to trust your macine is truly discouraging I have so many projects on halt because of that including fixing the problem in the first place
Create a return lip at the bottom of the form. Will make the edge smoother, and you can punch holes into it for the mask straps.
We just printed and sanded our tool. Works great. We print thermoform tooling all of the time at work for short run parts. Just have to monitor your tool for heat soak if you throw it into a production machine.
Picture of our first prototype: Montana thermoform imgur.com/a/Gtuz6iK
..... why not 3d print the form?? It may take some finishing but its bound to be easier than a multistage CNC process.
You continue to inspire, even in your "failures".
What you accomplish with the shapeoko is astonishing. Good enough is good enough when lives are on the line. Hit that shift with a Dremel and vacuum form to your hearts content.
LOL! A ""relevant timeline for the pandemic". little did we know.....
Can't you just sand it down and see if it still works? Faces aren't millimeter-perfect anyway.
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take! i did something like this. a mold for making masks with liquid silicone. it is on thingaverse is you want to see it.
Don't they use nylon lock nuts on those bearings? I am just a new engineer thinking about getting a shapeOko and was wondering why they don't use a more resistant nut?
just get some linear rail on this thing
In aviation, pilots do a walk-around to check the critical parts and functions of the plane. Perhaps this could be used for all tools.
I'm in the same boat! Almost identical. Want to make a vacuum mold but my 3018 mill just sucks!
looks like you might have had more time to tackle this project than you thought you would have.
You counter bored your holes on the wrong side. I appreciate knowing that someone I admire makes the same stupid mistakes that I do!
This is the first video i have seen on your channel and you knocked it out of the part. Liked and subscribed. Can't wait to see more from you.
You have both software and hardware lack of knowledge what is a point of making a video of it ?
Why not just sand it manually ? I mean it wouldnt make the mask any less effective
I really respect you for showing a level of vulnerability that few people do. It highlights for me your genuine desire to help people be better
2:50 You scored 100% for Darth Vader look-a-like face mask!
Always enjoy your content and appreciate your honesty.
Would you mind making your designs publicly available? The approach seems worthwhile even if you didn't have the wherewithal to see it to completion.
Shoot me an email or DM and I'll send you the project files. Happy to share, just want to make sure people don't start downloading it thinking it's a proven solution of any sort.
I would use 3d printing to make the vacuum mold
great video, thanks for posting your mistakes
Good information.
You could add bondo to the tool and remachine after a few mins.
Ouch I had the same problem with HDZ upgrade today... My bearing holder at bottom was loose and screws on the HDZ linear rails unscrewed and popped out on both sides. It freaked me out when I heard a crash when gantry moved up to switch cutters. I really hope HDZ won't give me problems now :(. Side note though, the HDZ is really awesome and a great upgrade! Just add lock tight if you get one.
Yea, it's always good to "trust, but verify" that everything's been tightened down. Set screws are the most common thing that need to be double checked.
Can't you just 3d print the buck?
I'd consider ditching the V-Rollers and make the switch to linear rails. Even inexpensive non-hiwin knockoffs work well when cleaned and lubricated properly.
I've seen a couple users make that modification to Shapeokos. Haven't ruled it out myselff...
Thanks for the video. I learned a lot from it
The vacu-forming concept is excellent - 3D printers are being used en-mass to fill the gap until injection molding can ramp up for this PPE, but vacu-forming is a great intermediate step.
Thanks for sharing your frustrations - these hobby-class machines (includes almost ALL 3D printers) are fantastic, but they aren't super rugged, and seeing the kinds of flaws different failure modes can create is helpful to everybody in diagnosing problems. The runner wheels on your CNC machine, for instance, are almost exactly how most delta-arm 3D printers work, and a similar shift in a printer would result.
Thanks for sharing.... and carry it on! 👍
Failure is not possible unless you quit.
You were so close! Keep going!
why dont you just finish it by hand?
Muito bom parabéns 👏👏
Good on you for all points made!
Great video, I teach high school woodshop and CNC and learned a ton from this video. Thank you
Preventative maintenance.
Still a good vblog though
It's a pity it failed. Would've love to see a finished product!
What dust shoe is that?
The buck stopped there
You should be wearing a mask just to CNC that MDF
nice!!
5 months later, we are all still wearing masks. :-D
1 year later, still masked lol
get back on it
Use plaster or bondo to fill your gaps
There will be a little sanding but then you could recover the project
It happens to us all..... Good idea with the vacuum forming though! 8 have been meaning to make a vacuum forming set up for a while....
Winston, part of learning is making mistake, what I love about these video is what issues you have found. Such as the machine had issues, that is the problem I found with my CNC machine. Typically you think your machine is working in perfect order and find why it did not come out. You are very proficient in fusion 360. The second wave will be something that will cause more PPE to be available for our first responders. So I would not give up on this mold.
Good say.
Mistakes are another word for experience and mistakes are the tuition paid for success. The fact that you have the mental fortitude to do a post mortem on your project speaks volumes about your intellect. I appreciate you sharing, thank you.
Another great message.
Being able to shift to the next project on the ‘rabbit hole’ list is definitely a learned skill.
I love how you work. Thanks for all you do!
The 3D printed masks is a great concept, but right of the printers there can be gaps as much as 20-50 microns and even up to 200 microns depending on print quality, but if you increase quality the print time will increase drastically and pretty much no home printer will be able to reach the layer height to stop viruses and last i check viruses and bacteria is alot smaller than 20 microns. Infact advertising that 3D printed respirators to work in some places is banned because it has no guarantee to stop a virus. Threated masks that's sanded and properly painted would work alot better. But you will still have issues with fit and without any flexible plastics you won't be able to close the gaps without anything else to seal the gap. vacuum formed masks is alot more promising, but by then why not just increase production rates in factories.
I immediately started 3D printing masks, but they didn’t fit and weren’t comfortable. I was thinking of 3D printing a mask to use in vacuum forming but had never done forming so just printed them. I played with my model making 10 different prototypes before settling on one. It’s still not great but if it’s going to be useful it also has to be in time. Nice try.