The best controller reviewer on RUclips delivers again. I know everyone else is also thinking this, but if this had hall effect sticks and console compatibility, it would have it all.
Really everything should have Hall effects. Why not? When there are $40 controllers that have them then it’s dumbfounding they $100+ controllers don’t.
@@upurweight that’s so unrealistic. PC has been around since the original Xbox and PlayStation and console is still just fine. Some people like simplicity
@@upurweight How is it the thing of the past and plus you cannot get the same power on a console on pc with that price. Console are the cheap way to get into gaming.
@@upurweightpretty sure they're already are, I dont see why console manufacturers would open it up and use different os when the current way they do things rn allows them to optimize heavily on it and have a not bloated software slowing them down
Gotta say, i love the comment section on your videos. Both you and the community here do a great job fleshing out some of the nitty gritty afterthought details. I watch most of your videos knowing im not gonna buy a single one of these just because it stratches that itch of thorough completionism.
Nice video mate. I know you mentioned about the G keys being able to be macro to pc functions but I don’t think you mentioned about the back 4 buttons. One of the key benefits and game changer is that you are able to set these up to any keyboard key. You are not limited to only having to map front buttons to the back ones. So with this you get the benefit of what MnK has. You can set up a button for just sliding, and another for prown. With this you get instant response. This is cause with the front button there is dive, slide, prown all linked to the one button and game waits to see if you are holding or click release to perform action. Now it will instant do it (as in game settings you have set keyboard binds to split actions up). This is main reason it’s for PC only as you have ability to do Keyboard binds on all programmable buttons.
@@badmoose01 You are comparing a handheld Pocket PC for Steam that is 6x or more the price of the Controller. But that is cool to know that is offered there too.
@@mrhairris2112 actually is closer to two times the cost of this controller but yeah, Valve is ahead of the curve on this stuff it seems. Also with the steam controller from a while ago.
I am 100% getting this. I was happy to wait for your review before buying (even though I’m now waitlisted), but your review confirms what I was hoping! The Wolverine was the only other one I was considering with the 6 extra buttons, but the face buttons and the fact it looks gorgeous tipped this over the line!
Had Scuf taken the real leap and made the Pro version with hall effects joystick modules this would have been a phenomenal pro controller, but the lacking of that and all the current ICUE software issues, customers literally bricking new controllers or out of the box stick drift is ridiculous at this point coming from SCUF.
Hey Big Stallion, the a and b buttons can be changed, you just have to add them somewhere else first. It only forces a and b to be mapped somewhere. I also got better polling results on the higher sample tests. My instinct pro is benched.
This looks like an awesome controller and I hope the next instinct pro iteration from scuf includes those extra side buttons. Another big takeaway from this review is the fact that AK40Kevin has a 6 button Battle Beaver controller on the way for review someday in the future.
I'm sold on the Envision Pro... just switched to it after using an Elite Series 2 for the last decade. I'm not a big fan of iCue but the controller is one of the best I've ever used. What I really like is that you can remove run two or four paddles. I only run two so this was a big selling point for me.
@32:31 The way around this is rewasd. I was able to get it working with PS remote play. The controller shows up in windows as an xbox controller, and then there is another peripheral that is detected for you to map to the play station buttons. i.e the touchpad click. I haven't messed around with other functions of the touch pad, but all clicking buttons on the DS4/5 controller are mapped and works great!
Bummer no Gyro Aim. Would make it an immediate no-go for me. Interesting also theres no Hall Effect sticks. That and limited to PC only, seems a bit too limiting for that price. A bit unfortunate since it seems like a solid built controller outside of those.
Hey, another great video. This might be my first “pro”/PC specific controller I pick up. Would have been perfect if it could connect to PS5, but hopefully a dongle will come out to support that some day. Keep up the great work man.
When it comes to your praise of the bumpers, stock XBO/S pads can do a similar thing, the sculpting on the bumpers allows for a resting position on the trigger with an upwards bump to actuate the bumpers. A lot of modern controllers are actually capable of this, though individual sculpts can be more difficult than others, even the Steam Controller in its ungodly bumper design can do this with a bit of learning of how to finesse the bumpers. One thing I find odd is the face of the controller, the design 100% allows for a Sony touchpad on the top center of the face. In fact the only thing that says Xbox or PC is the face button legends. I genuinely think this controller stems from a PS5 design, but somehow got flipped into a PC-only controller. I don't really care for the G keys personally. They seem more like accessory macros, they're just so far out of the way. Which I guess makes sense as keyboard remappables for media inputs, etc., but I'd still rather see these in a more accessible area. Possibly even go as far as a mode switch where a faster to reach accessory button in combination with a face button can provide your accessory mapping; we've also seen this on some controllers, where an accessory button plus Dpad input acts as the media cluster, and it's really not a bad design assuming accessory key layout is decent. I also have mixed feelings on the SAX buttons. In concept they seem decent, in execution they just look awkward, and in practicality they're a mess considering the ergonomics of a controller. Given ergonomics, you have a face layout that's fixed and a shoulder layout that's fixed, typically the shoulders are a non-issue for a range of hand size because they'll still fall under the index finger tips (and middle finger tips depending on grip style, some people do use middles on triggers while indexes remain on bumpers) due to how wide the shoulder set is and inversely they're still usable with the same design for larger hands due to width of the buttons and how the hands grip the controller. Where ergonomics fall apart is back buttons being within awkward reach and now these side buttons, because the face and shoulders are a fixed layout these secondary inputs really need to be more flexible to fit the same extension of hand sizes, which is why some back button sets feel awful for some people but decent for others, and these side buttons will be no different. Personally, I feel like the intent was for the button to fall under your proximal phalanx, rather than your MCP joint, because a lateral movement of the fingers would result in a squeeze while not really modifying how the shoulders are used, as opposed to trying to actuate the side button with a portion of your palm that has virtually no dexterity. I went through my own collection of controllers just to see where these buttons should optimally be and I think they do need to move up a bit if not be sculpted into the transition of the top to side of the controller, and this was true for essentially everything I picked up; but to extend on this, these would have to have a decently long throw and be a fairly heavy button, as I mentioned in the best way to actuate them being to slide your middle and distal phalanxes across the shoulders to bump these side buttons with your proximal phalanx, the button would need to a heavy switch just to avoid accidental inputs, and it'd need a longer throw given how your finger otherwise pivots, a simple microswitch just would not suffice all things considering. Personally I think a better design would be to have additional shoulders, similar to what Razer and other third parties (FlyDigi is the first that comes to mind) has done, except make these a lateral press rather than a button that presses into the body of the controller, not only would this make actuation easier on the finger (lighter and shorter fingertip tap rather than leveraging the proximal phalanx against a button) there's also more potential for sculpting and a wider range of hand sizes and grip styles as these are within the shoulder cluster itself; plus going back to how XBO/S, and many other controllers, can have an upwards bump on the bumpers, these can have a lateral bump from the same resting position, meaning more accessible buttons from one position on top of the already less effort to use the button. Ergonomics are complex and so many designs just outright get it wrong, again the concept is fine but practicality isn't there when there's clearly a better solution to this, and I'm all for more inputs considering I use my Steam Controller constantly and that thing is a powerhouse of physical input variety and software customizability, but side buttons is just not the way to do it unless you have the buttons at the literal corner where the top meets the sides and this should be a last ditch effort of adding additional buttons. The whole 'you can straighten out your finger' to actuate them demonstrates the issues with the ergonomics, doing this motion just to actuate a side button is removing your finger from the shoulders, which is what secondary inputs are trying to avoid (see: rear buttons keep your thumb on the stick for longer), especially when the shoulders are being praised for 'better' usability; i.e. the design just doesn't work, maybe the design is fine and Kevin just has a really high grip on the controller, it's hard to judge without having the controller in-hand, but I'm inclined to lean towards that it's just a bad design. I have similar opinions with the rear buttons. Good concept, practicality is iffy, and execution might not work for some hand sizes. I think the goal of the buttons, as Kevin somewhat pointed out, is that lateral movement in one direction hits the paddle and lateral movement in the other direction hits the button; though these aren't true laterals based on finger movement as that requires curling of the finger, but rather a reference of direction based on the rear of the controller. While multiple buttons from one resting position is good, but again the face layout is fixed and in combination with the shell's sculpting that will influence where your fingers will land on the rear of the controller, which means a fairly narrow scope of hand sizes can use these buttons as intended by the design, not to mention a fixed face and a fixed rear with a particular shell sculpt will heavily influence grip style and hand posture, so while it could be usable doesn't mean it's optimal or comfortable; and by design and the shots of the rear, Kevin's hands look to be on the larger end of hand sizes that'll find this design usable, though I'm inclined to believe that his hands are larger than what the controller was actually optimized for based on design. Again, ergonomics are difficult, most companies constantly get it incorrect, rear buttons can be hit or miss because they're secondary yet not customizable to the wider range of hand sizes. The fix for secondary inputs is simply to have adjustability or modularity in the sculpting to account for the wider range of hand sizes. Ironically Corsair themselves got this correct when they introduced the key slider thumb inputs on their mice, I'm not sure if the Scimitar is the only mouse of theirs to use this; because not everyone has the same hand size and the thumb buttons are secondary to the shell of the mouse, which again influences how your hand sits. So why can't we see this in more products where secondary inputs will entirely make or break a product for a variety of people? I mean, we already see trigger stops, that kind of mechanism wouldn't be too dissimilar from how rear buttons could be adjusted; or we already have swappable parts that could heavily change ergonomics with correct implementation, for example thumbstick caps and risers, or this very controller that has multiple sculpts for the SAX buttons. All of these secondary inputs could be much more widely usable, just as usable as the face and shoulder layouts are, if companies would just take the time to logically implement things and have some form of adjustability or modularity where different hand sizes and hand postures can pick up the same controller and not complain about secondary layouts with a bit of per-person customization out of the box. It'd be so nice for one of these big companies to finally get ergonomics correct without catering to the ergo niche, and this is a common complain I have with a lot of controllers, even the Steam Controller that I keep bringing up has ergonomic issues the moment you leave the touchpads, or again its ungodly bumper design that's barely has an upwards bump from a finger rest at the trigger; at least Microsoft got most of the ergonomic issues right, but they also have a division for ergo peripherals so they probably borrowed some talent from there, and a lot of the third party market either copies this or gravitates towards this, even Nintendo has gravitated towards it with their full controller.
Scuff made the 45 ft range so that you can control heavy machinery/submarine from far away of coarse as gamers don't have a screen big enough to be seen 45 feet away. Fun fact lot's of companies use controllers to control their heavy machinery, heck even the us military uses them.
I am very tempted to buy this controller but if they had hall effect stick I wouldnt even second guess buying it. I many like the hall effect ones because they are more responsive rather than the "no stick drift" claims
When they make this exact same white/grey design with hall sticks and Switch compatibility and BROOK CONVERTOR compatibility …. Easily copping 2, maybe 4.
Seems good BUT im keeping my PlayStation Edge I got this week. It’s AMAZING. I returned my Scuf Reflex FPS. Got 2 year warranty from Best Buy i can walk in get a new one anytime. My Edges input delay rate is .96ms after latest firmware, I didn’t overclock it myself (wtf??) and the short triggers actually click much faster than the entire travel time + you can make faster in DXW. I recommend the Edge if you’re shopping for PC controller!
Great video! One if not the only quality controller reviewers on RUclips, I love the in depth reviews. To no fault of Scuf, I broke my thumb a while back so the side by side thumbsticks have always been a much more uncomfortable layout for me. I would have loved to have seen an xbox layout option. and before I get a bunch of replies, I know this isn't scuf's problem. Just tough because I was looking forward to potentially getting my hands on their PC controller. I used to go back and forth between controllers with ease also, but yeah, my own stupidity and breaking my thumb has cast that aside 😂 RIP
Yesterday when I bought the controller I was looking into adapters for iOS to play cod mobile. I hope one day the controller firmware can be updated to work with phones and just be universal all around to work with any console. Good video keep up your good work!
I have all kinds of controlles and the Scufs are one of the best. Until recently, the Scuf Envision Pro was my favorite controller for PC gaming, but I bought the *Flydigi APEX 4 Wireless Controller EVA Limited Edition* and I love it. The design of the limited edition is wonderful, the joysticks are more precise and has hall effect technology, the wired and wireless connection has a polling rate of 1000 Hz, achieving ultra-low latency, and the screen gives it an extra point. The only negative point for me is the Force Feedback triggers, because I'm not going to use them much, but they can be locked at the height you want and thus turn them into instant triggers for shooting games.
Been a fan since before you left the military and before you revamped your room. I appreciate your reviews. Wife hates you though because she knows I’m taking $200 next check 😅
For me a person who plays double claw I prefer the PlayStation stick layout because I can’t wrap my head around using my index finger to click L3 it’s too hard to press down in my opinion
I'm going to insist that stick position matters for games like Monster Hunter or Soulslikes where you're going to be working 2 stick AND a d-pad AND a run button at the same time. It's much easier to claw your index finger down to that d-pad on the Playstation layout. Sure, you can claw the stick and thumb the d-pad on the x-box layout, but it's a much greater learning curve adapting to using a stick with your index finger bent all wonked.
About using USB-C inputs on your PC. If you're using a USB-A to USB-C converter, the most you can do is 10Gb, not 20Gb+ like USB-C. Also, these controllers almost exclusively use USB 2.0 speeds meaning it won't even use the USB 3.0 pins. It's possible they do. If so, they wouldn't be fighting with other USB 2.0 devices. But from using USB Tree Viewer in Windows, I found that the majority of my devices are USB 1.1 and 2.0. The only USB 3.0+ devices I have are some NVMe drive readers, some SATA drive readers, a couple flash drives, and a Blu-ray drive (other Blu-ray drives use USB 2.0). Even my Focusrite pre-amp and camera are USB-C, but they only use USB 2.0. Oh, I guess there is one other USB 3.0 device I have; my phone. Not sure if that counts.
The Scuf vantage was the best ergonomically controller I ever owned,the hardware just had to many problems,the envision is the same controller,just new hardware for pc, I own ps5 never had a xbox,but the off set thumbstick definitely feel better
I bought the envision pro and did not open it yet trying to decide if it was worth moving on from my reflex fps. My main concerns were the possibility of losing response time from the reflex fps' permanent digital triggers to the envision pro's optional setting and assumption (that you disproved) that wireless would be a slower response time than wired. Now I am sold and excited to move to the envision pro!
@@erikmorales1641 I've had it since May 2022 and love it. It has held up well with no stick drift or other issues. I am only moving to the envision pro for the extra options for PC and the possibility of going wireless with no input delay.
Did you talk about how the analog stick caps are obviously sharp wedges that will get into your thumb like a razor blade when fully pressed in any direction
In my testing, running the Xinput latency test while the iCue software is shut down yields zero outliers. I'm sort of a conteoller enthusiast as well, and the only controllers I main are my own PS4 controllers with remappaable mods that I install along with tact switches and the extremerate clicky kits. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy this Scuf and will probably use it exclusively for the foreseeable future. Was not a super big fan of Scuf, but this one is definitely a W.
I’m in the market for my first pro custom controller. Mostly for warzone/cod. What’s your ultimate #1 controller to use? That will be good for mw3. Right now I’m between an aim controller and the envision. What is your go to for that game? If you could only pick one to use forever lmao. I’ve been watching all your videos and can’t decide. You probly have the most experience with every brand to know the answer. I play on pc.
We are nearing the END GAME controller. So happy when compatition creates perfection just takes time. Personally still waiting for hall effect on this form factor gamepad.
Been waiting for you to make a video on this, always reliable. If you're up to it, could you do an comparison to the Envision Pro and the Wired Envision?
We finally have a wireless controller with micro switches! I prefer the Xbox layout unless I'm playing a d-pad game, then I want the d-pad at the top (like this one). I know a lot of people play FPS games on their controllers, but I use a keyboard and mouse for those. For me, the "joystick at the bottom" design is gonna cause thumb pain from the way I hold the controller (N64/GCN-style). I wish you could swap their positions like the Thrustmaster. I've been longing for a wireless controller with this featureset.
No gyro means it's terrible. imagine spending Scuf patent trolling while not being able to match valves 5$ controller and hobby projects like the alpakka, especially after solarlight proved that gyro can match a mouse in PC-FPS, basically outdoing and oliterating what all the consoles pros said was impossible in one tournament.
My FPS freeks fit, but the front plate blocks them. Have you tested them fully on the controller? You can feel them rubbing the plate and getting caught up on it. It even affects in game sensitivity due to it getting blocked.
I was waiting for your review to order it and just today it shows me available so I just ordered that one white, though I wanted the gray one but the custom options did not show me that one. Thank you for your input!
Worrying that that the analogues had a mind of their own and also that the overclock results weren't amazing showing many high readings and high jitter
They sell them in Best Buy. Best Buy carries a lot of Corsair hardware. Only the gray, Pro version as far as I could see. Bought mine there last week, hope this helps someone
22:44 is that light bleed or is it intentional? I must've somehow missed the rgb part of the video Great review as usual tho. Scuf is really stepping it up, I like this even tho it has a few cons
For docked Steam Deck users, it actually works wired... BUT none of the special buttons work, making it basically just a normal controller. Returned immediately. :(
Best controller that's worked good for me for quite a while is the fusion 2 controller for Xbox. Have zero problems and I've been using it for over a year.
Thats nothing. It should last way longer, Scuf never last beyond 2yrs. I will never buy from them when they are always lacking in durability which is the most important thing on a controller, Scuf is one of the worst company in terms of customer service. Its common that controllers gets broken under delievery and they wont even answer you if something happens, You are being forced to sue. Scuf is the most disgusting company around, No one should buy their products ever.
@@toprap88 ya for sure lol it seems like scuff controllers are getting worse in quality with every new version. Don't know about this new one but still don't trust it and too expensive. Just got the fusion 3 controller and I'm liking it so far
@@darkknightdio7247 Yeah shame I cant stand xbox buttons, Seems like my only option is Razer Wolverine V2 Pro. I like it alot but 300usd in my country without a case, Thats just disgusting. I love Razer but I dont like this. Seems scummy, You got any suggestions for me? Cant find anything else and I need at least 4ekstra buttons, I like phat look of xbox controllers they fit so good in my hands. PS is terrible compared to it, Analog placement is just terrible for your thumb and it slips easily out of your hands. Been looking for a while, Cant find anything else😑
@@toprap88 the power A fusion 2 or 3 is a really good option for an affordable good quality controller with nice paddles. The razer controller looks nice. I've tested a friend's out and I don't like where the paddle placements are. The fusion 3 controller has nice paddle buttons on the back. They sit a little high for my taste but I don't have an issue using them.
If you don’t want to get stick drift from trial and error don’t know why it’s more known, just don’t use your thumb stick click, sounds silly as it removes a whole function but my elite v2 has last 2x as long as my previous after doing that along with my scuf reflex and some cheaper controller options I found that most games have an automatic sprint option nowadays and the occasional crouch shouldn’t kill you, but that Left stick press over and over will kill you
I have a question that may not have a "definite" answer yet. I'm a big fan of good quality competitive controllers like these...and I'm an even BIGGER fan of the extreme tension stick modules that BattleBeaver (and a few other companies) have implemented into their controllers. With Hall effect modules being the new absolute golden standard for stick modules, do you think it's possible that one of these companies will figure out how to implement extreme tension into Hall effect modules? Because if so....😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍.
HYPR Does that, I don't know how strong the tension is but they have a video on their channel thats say they are able to increase the tension in a HE stick
The best controller reviewer on RUclips delivers again. I know everyone else is also thinking this, but if this had hall effect sticks and console compatibility, it would have it all.
at least it looks easy to access the modules to replace them if necessary. will you do a demo of that? maybe on an older model Scuf controller
It'd still be missing gyro though
@@noclippIt really doesn't have gyro?
Even if it had changeable thumbsticks like ps5 edge pro.
@@noclipp are you some kind of child gamer ...gyro ? nah nah
They gotta add Hall effect sticks
Yea, it isn't even worth considering imo especially because of the price ridiculous
Really everything should have Hall effects. Why not? When there are $40 controllers that have them then it’s dumbfounding they $100+ controllers don’t.
they are afraid that those controllers will never break
the hood is getting the nacon revolution 5 not scuf
Fr not worth
Scuf making a controller for PC better than their console controllers. Imagine.
Console gaming will be a thing of the past sooner than later.
@@upurweight that’s so unrealistic. PC has been around since the original Xbox and PlayStation and console is still just fine. Some people like simplicity
@@upurweight How is it the thing of the past and plus you cannot get the same power on a console on pc with that price. Console are the cheap way to get into gaming.
Consoles will slowly begin to become pre-built PCs...
@@upurweightpretty sure they're already are, I dont see why console manufacturers would open it up and use different os when the current way they do things rn allows them to optimize heavily on it and have a not bloated software slowing them down
Gotta say, i love the comment section on your videos. Both you and the community here do a great job fleshing out some of the nitty gritty afterthought details.
I watch most of your videos knowing im not gonna buy a single one of these just because it stratches that itch of thorough completionism.
That's what I love to hear
Nice video mate. I know you mentioned about the G keys being able to be macro to pc functions but I don’t think you mentioned about the back 4 buttons. One of the key benefits and game changer is that you are able to set these up to any keyboard key.
You are not limited to only having to map front buttons to the back ones.
So with this you get the benefit of what MnK has. You can set up a button for just sliding, and another for prown. With this you get instant response. This is cause with the front button there is dive, slide, prown all linked to the one button and game waits to see if you are holding or click release to perform action. Now it will instant do it (as in game settings you have set keyboard binds to split actions up).
This is main reason it’s for PC only as you have ability to do Keyboard binds on all programmable buttons.
That’s the same capability the SteamDeck has with its rear buttons and steam input.
@@badmoose01 You are comparing a handheld Pocket PC for Steam that is 6x or more the price of the Controller.
But that is cool to know that is offered there too.
@@mrhairris2112 actually is closer to two times the cost of this controller but yeah, Valve is ahead of the curve on this stuff it seems. Also with the steam controller from a while ago.
I am just going off my market. Steamdeck is $1,400 - $1,600 vs $300 for scuf.
I am 100% getting this. I was happy to wait for your review before buying (even though I’m now waitlisted), but your review confirms what I was hoping! The Wolverine was the only other one I was considering with the 6 extra buttons, but the face buttons and the fact it looks gorgeous tipped this over the line!
Did u get it?
enjoy the stick drift
@@ayjie6829I’m glad I work at bestbuy and don’t have to worry about that with my $2 protection plans 😂
How has the controler been for you so far?
You are without doubt the Controller Captain. Your knowledge, depth of reviews and delivery is second to none..... and it's not even close. 👍🏼
Had Scuf taken the real leap and made the Pro version with hall effects joystick modules this would have been a phenomenal pro controller, but the lacking of that and all the current ICUE software issues, customers literally bricking new controllers or out of the box stick drift is ridiculous at this point coming from SCUF.
Hey Big Stallion, the a and b buttons can be changed, you just have to add them somewhere else first. It only forces a and b to be mapped somewhere. I also got better polling results on the higher sample tests. My instinct pro is benched.
I really hope they make an Xbox version of this. The sax buttons are a really unique thing that would make Scuf standout from the crowd.
Scuf instinct pro is almost the same
Been waiting for you to review this one! I got one and been loving it so far.
Thanks dumb killer, I've been loving it too
@@GamerHeavenOfficial LMAO " Dumb Killer..." u just had to hit him with that eh
This looks like an awesome controller and I hope the next instinct pro iteration from scuf includes those extra side buttons. Another big takeaway from this review is the fact that AK40Kevin has a 6 button Battle Beaver controller on the way for review someday in the future.
Beaver beaver beaver
@@GamerHeavenOfficial Thank God. I’ve been debating pulling the trigger on a Battle Beaver with 6 buttons for the last year.
people on mac dont matter.
Ikr
I'm sold on the Envision Pro... just switched to it after using an Elite Series 2 for the last decade. I'm not a big fan of iCue but the controller is one of the best I've ever used. What I really like is that you can remove run two or four paddles. I only run two so this was a big selling point for me.
@32:31 The way around this is rewasd. I was able to get it working with PS remote play. The controller shows up in windows as an xbox controller, and then there is another peripheral that is detected for you to map to the play station buttons. i.e the touchpad click. I haven't messed around with other functions of the touch pad, but all clicking buttons on the DS4/5 controller are mapped and works great!
The funny editing and jokes made a 30 minute review on a controller very watchable and entertaining.
Bummer no Gyro Aim. Would make it an immediate no-go for me. Interesting also theres no Hall Effect sticks. That and limited to PC only, seems a bit too limiting for that price. A bit unfortunate since it seems like a solid built controller outside of those.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I didn't even think about gyro
Hey, another great video. This might be my first “pro”/PC specific controller I pick up. Would have been perfect if it could connect to PS5, but hopefully a dongle will come out to support that some day. Keep up the great work man.
Thank you Devin I appreciate that. PS5 support would be the bomb considering that is the platform I play on the most
When it comes to your praise of the bumpers, stock XBO/S pads can do a similar thing, the sculpting on the bumpers allows for a resting position on the trigger with an upwards bump to actuate the bumpers. A lot of modern controllers are actually capable of this, though individual sculpts can be more difficult than others, even the Steam Controller in its ungodly bumper design can do this with a bit of learning of how to finesse the bumpers.
One thing I find odd is the face of the controller, the design 100% allows for a Sony touchpad on the top center of the face. In fact the only thing that says Xbox or PC is the face button legends. I genuinely think this controller stems from a PS5 design, but somehow got flipped into a PC-only controller.
I don't really care for the G keys personally. They seem more like accessory macros, they're just so far out of the way. Which I guess makes sense as keyboard remappables for media inputs, etc., but I'd still rather see these in a more accessible area. Possibly even go as far as a mode switch where a faster to reach accessory button in combination with a face button can provide your accessory mapping; we've also seen this on some controllers, where an accessory button plus Dpad input acts as the media cluster, and it's really not a bad design assuming accessory key layout is decent.
I also have mixed feelings on the SAX buttons. In concept they seem decent, in execution they just look awkward, and in practicality they're a mess considering the ergonomics of a controller. Given ergonomics, you have a face layout that's fixed and a shoulder layout that's fixed, typically the shoulders are a non-issue for a range of hand size because they'll still fall under the index finger tips (and middle finger tips depending on grip style, some people do use middles on triggers while indexes remain on bumpers) due to how wide the shoulder set is and inversely they're still usable with the same design for larger hands due to width of the buttons and how the hands grip the controller. Where ergonomics fall apart is back buttons being within awkward reach and now these side buttons, because the face and shoulders are a fixed layout these secondary inputs really need to be more flexible to fit the same extension of hand sizes, which is why some back button sets feel awful for some people but decent for others, and these side buttons will be no different. Personally, I feel like the intent was for the button to fall under your proximal phalanx, rather than your MCP joint, because a lateral movement of the fingers would result in a squeeze while not really modifying how the shoulders are used, as opposed to trying to actuate the side button with a portion of your palm that has virtually no dexterity. I went through my own collection of controllers just to see where these buttons should optimally be and I think they do need to move up a bit if not be sculpted into the transition of the top to side of the controller, and this was true for essentially everything I picked up; but to extend on this, these would have to have a decently long throw and be a fairly heavy button, as I mentioned in the best way to actuate them being to slide your middle and distal phalanxes across the shoulders to bump these side buttons with your proximal phalanx, the button would need to a heavy switch just to avoid accidental inputs, and it'd need a longer throw given how your finger otherwise pivots, a simple microswitch just would not suffice all things considering. Personally I think a better design would be to have additional shoulders, similar to what Razer and other third parties (FlyDigi is the first that comes to mind) has done, except make these a lateral press rather than a button that presses into the body of the controller, not only would this make actuation easier on the finger (lighter and shorter fingertip tap rather than leveraging the proximal phalanx against a button) there's also more potential for sculpting and a wider range of hand sizes and grip styles as these are within the shoulder cluster itself; plus going back to how XBO/S, and many other controllers, can have an upwards bump on the bumpers, these can have a lateral bump from the same resting position, meaning more accessible buttons from one position on top of the already less effort to use the button. Ergonomics are complex and so many designs just outright get it wrong, again the concept is fine but practicality isn't there when there's clearly a better solution to this, and I'm all for more inputs considering I use my Steam Controller constantly and that thing is a powerhouse of physical input variety and software customizability, but side buttons is just not the way to do it unless you have the buttons at the literal corner where the top meets the sides and this should be a last ditch effort of adding additional buttons. The whole 'you can straighten out your finger' to actuate them demonstrates the issues with the ergonomics, doing this motion just to actuate a side button is removing your finger from the shoulders, which is what secondary inputs are trying to avoid (see: rear buttons keep your thumb on the stick for longer), especially when the shoulders are being praised for 'better' usability; i.e. the design just doesn't work, maybe the design is fine and Kevin just has a really high grip on the controller, it's hard to judge without having the controller in-hand, but I'm inclined to lean towards that it's just a bad design.
I have similar opinions with the rear buttons. Good concept, practicality is iffy, and execution might not work for some hand sizes. I think the goal of the buttons, as Kevin somewhat pointed out, is that lateral movement in one direction hits the paddle and lateral movement in the other direction hits the button; though these aren't true laterals based on finger movement as that requires curling of the finger, but rather a reference of direction based on the rear of the controller. While multiple buttons from one resting position is good, but again the face layout is fixed and in combination with the shell's sculpting that will influence where your fingers will land on the rear of the controller, which means a fairly narrow scope of hand sizes can use these buttons as intended by the design, not to mention a fixed face and a fixed rear with a particular shell sculpt will heavily influence grip style and hand posture, so while it could be usable doesn't mean it's optimal or comfortable; and by design and the shots of the rear, Kevin's hands look to be on the larger end of hand sizes that'll find this design usable, though I'm inclined to believe that his hands are larger than what the controller was actually optimized for based on design. Again, ergonomics are difficult, most companies constantly get it incorrect, rear buttons can be hit or miss because they're secondary yet not customizable to the wider range of hand sizes.
The fix for secondary inputs is simply to have adjustability or modularity in the sculpting to account for the wider range of hand sizes. Ironically Corsair themselves got this correct when they introduced the key slider thumb inputs on their mice, I'm not sure if the Scimitar is the only mouse of theirs to use this; because not everyone has the same hand size and the thumb buttons are secondary to the shell of the mouse, which again influences how your hand sits. So why can't we see this in more products where secondary inputs will entirely make or break a product for a variety of people? I mean, we already see trigger stops, that kind of mechanism wouldn't be too dissimilar from how rear buttons could be adjusted; or we already have swappable parts that could heavily change ergonomics with correct implementation, for example thumbstick caps and risers, or this very controller that has multiple sculpts for the SAX buttons. All of these secondary inputs could be much more widely usable, just as usable as the face and shoulder layouts are, if companies would just take the time to logically implement things and have some form of adjustability or modularity where different hand sizes and hand postures can pick up the same controller and not complain about secondary layouts with a bit of per-person customization out of the box. It'd be so nice for one of these big companies to finally get ergonomics correct without catering to the ergo niche, and this is a common complain I have with a lot of controllers, even the Steam Controller that I keep bringing up has ergonomic issues the moment you leave the touchpads, or again its ungodly bumper design that's barely has an upwards bump from a finger rest at the trigger; at least Microsoft got most of the ergonomic issues right, but they also have a division for ergo peripherals so they probably borrowed some talent from there, and a lot of the third party market either copies this or gravitates towards this, even Nintendo has gravitated towards it with their full controller.
nobody reading all that shit
Scuff made the 45 ft range so that you can control heavy machinery/submarine from far away of coarse as gamers don't have a screen big enough to be seen 45 feet away. Fun fact lot's of companies use controllers to control their heavy machinery, heck even the us military uses them.
Lol. Okay there Stockton
Yo bro they sell these on Best Buy. I saw that you didn’t mention that. I also got mine in 2 days ordering from there. Love the vids
Yeah I didn't mention that because I didn't know about it lol, or I probably would have bought from there
Finally I’ve literally waited all week for your review! Best controller reviewer on yt
I am very tempted to buy this controller but if they had hall effect stick I wouldnt even second guess buying it. I many like the hall effect ones because they are more responsive rather than the "no stick drift" claims
Just in time waiting for my order from Best Buy! You the man!!
When they make this exact same white/grey design with hall sticks and Switch compatibility and BROOK CONVERTOR compatibility …. Easily copping 2, maybe 4.
This would've been my dream controller if it had gyro
Gyro and HE sticks would have been sick
Seems good BUT im keeping my PlayStation Edge I got this week. It’s AMAZING. I returned my Scuf Reflex FPS. Got 2 year warranty from Best Buy i can walk in get a new one anytime. My Edges input delay rate is .96ms after latest firmware, I didn’t overclock it myself (wtf??) and the short triggers actually click much faster than the entire travel time + you can make faster in DXW. I recommend the Edge if you’re shopping for PC controller!
Great video! One if not the only quality controller reviewers on RUclips, I love the in depth reviews. To no fault of Scuf, I broke my thumb a while back so the side by side thumbsticks have always been a much more uncomfortable layout for me. I would have loved to have seen an xbox layout option. and before I get a bunch of replies, I know this isn't scuf's problem. Just tough because I was looking forward to potentially getting my hands on their PC controller. I used to go back and forth between controllers with ease also, but yeah, my own stupidity and breaking my thumb has cast that aside 😂 RIP
Thank you for the compliment and for sharing your experience.
Him and vcuda are the only two i trust
No Hall effect sticks = I’m not buying it.
I have 2 Instinct pro's, neither have had problems with stick drift.
Yesterday when I bought the controller I was looking into adapters for iOS to play cod mobile. I hope one day the controller firmware can be updated to work with phones and just be universal all around to work with any console. Good video keep up your good work!
I have all kinds of controlles and the Scufs are one of the best. Until recently, the Scuf Envision Pro was my favorite controller for PC gaming, but I bought the *Flydigi APEX 4 Wireless Controller EVA Limited Edition* and I love it. The design of the limited edition is wonderful, the joysticks are more precise and has hall effect technology, the wired and wireless connection has a polling rate of 1000 Hz, achieving ultra-low latency, and the screen gives it an extra point. The only negative point for me is the Force Feedback triggers, because I'm not going to use them much, but they can be locked at the height you want and thus turn them into instant triggers for shooting games.
Been a fan since before you left the military and before you revamped your room. I appreciate your reviews. Wife hates you though because she knows I’m taking $200 next check 😅
lol, 200 bones well spent if you use it alot. thanks for the long time support man
Great video everything included that I wanted to know! Good job 👏🏼
This scuf might actually get me because they have it at Best Buy
Son of a gun I forgot that. I could have skipped shipping and just bought one in person
@@GamerHeavenOfficial the geek squad warranty goes crazy too whenever you get stick drift
Editing style never fails bro 😂🔥
For me a person who plays double claw I prefer the PlayStation stick layout because I can’t wrap my head around using my index finger to click L3 it’s too hard to press down in my opinion
I'm going to insist that stick position matters for games like Monster Hunter or Soulslikes where you're going to be working 2 stick AND a d-pad AND a run button at the same time. It's much easier to claw your index finger down to that d-pad on the Playstation layout. Sure, you can claw the stick and thumb the d-pad on the x-box layout, but it's a much greater learning curve adapting to using a stick with your index finger bent all wonked.
First time viewer, mind blown on your content and delivery. Look forward to new videos
Just received today. Can't wait to use. Great video.
Appreciate it Brother!!
COMRADE!!!!!!!!!! Great video as usual !!!
Thank you comrade
Nice, look forward to console versions. Thanks for sharing... "👍"...
I wish 3rd party companies make more symmetric joy stick controllers I have the 8BitDo Pro 2 and I love it
About using USB-C inputs on your PC. If you're using a USB-A to USB-C converter, the most you can do is 10Gb, not 20Gb+ like USB-C. Also, these controllers almost exclusively use USB 2.0 speeds meaning it won't even use the USB 3.0 pins. It's possible they do. If so, they wouldn't be fighting with other USB 2.0 devices. But from using USB Tree Viewer in Windows, I found that the majority of my devices are USB 1.1 and 2.0. The only USB 3.0+ devices I have are some NVMe drive readers, some SATA drive readers, a couple flash drives, and a Blu-ray drive (other Blu-ray drives use USB 2.0). Even my Focusrite pre-amp and camera are USB-C, but they only use USB 2.0.
Oh, I guess there is one other USB 3.0 device I have; my phone. Not sure if that counts.
GGGGGGGG UNIT!
That looks like an amazing controller! Just really wish it had the HE sticks. Hopefully an edition down the road will have them.
The Scuf vantage was the best ergonomically controller I ever owned,the hardware just had to many problems,the envision is the same controller,just new hardware for pc, I own ps5 never had a xbox,but the off set thumbstick definitely feel better
you are a magical content creator bro keep up the work
Does it not have gyro? If not... Apex 2 is my husband's choice.
i dont usually watch 30-40 munites review but this was very interesting!
Love your vids keep up the good work
AWESOME REVIEW!
Thank you
I bought the envision pro and did not open it yet trying to decide if it was worth moving on from my reflex fps. My main concerns were the possibility of losing response time from the reflex fps' permanent digital triggers to the envision pro's optional setting and assumption (that you disproved) that wireless would be a slower response time than wired. Now I am sold and excited to move to the envision pro!
how long have u had ur reflex fps & does it still hold up well. Any issues ?
@@erikmorales1641 I've had it since May 2022 and love it. It has held up well with no stick drift or other issues. I am only moving to the envision pro for the extra options for PC and the possibility of going wireless with no input delay.
@@danlouis6778 But you can't overclock it to get 0.9 like the ps5 which is making me reconsider.
Definitely laughed at the G Unit reference lol!
I feel called out by your impression of someone criticizing the position of thumb sticks. I felt like I could never move past the offset xbox layout.
I feel like you could in one match against bots in COD
@@GamerHeavenOfficial definitely going to keep my mind open to that layout. Great review as always 👍
I was hoping you'd make a review on this controller now I can have some clarity whether if iI want it. Thank You
PC controller but no gyro , wtf scuf?
No license from PS shame..
Did you talk about how the analog stick caps are obviously sharp wedges that will get into your thumb like a razor blade when fully pressed in any direction
In my testing, running the Xinput latency test while the iCue software is shut down yields zero outliers.
I'm sort of a conteoller enthusiast as well, and the only controllers I main are my own PS4 controllers with remappaable mods that I install along with tact switches and the extremerate clicky kits.
That being said, I thoroughly enjoy this Scuf and will probably use it exclusively for the foreseeable future. Was not a super big fan of Scuf, but this one is definitely a W.
I’m in the market for my first pro custom controller. Mostly for warzone/cod. What’s your ultimate #1 controller to use? That will be good for mw3. Right now I’m between an aim controller and the envision. What is your go to for that game? If you could only pick one to use forever lmao. I’ve been watching all your videos and can’t decide. You probly have the most experience with every brand to know the answer. I play on pc.
Absolutely great content man
We are nearing the END GAME controller. So happy when compatition creates perfection just takes time. Personally still waiting for hall effect on this form factor gamepad.
Been waiting for you to make a video on this, always reliable. If you're up to it, could you do an comparison to the Envision Pro and the Wired Envision?
Amazing review !!
Thanks for all the great videos. So many choices, and the prices are so high...
Anyway did you see this bad boy : "epomaker controller" ?
We finally have a wireless controller with micro switches! I prefer the Xbox layout unless I'm playing a d-pad game, then I want the d-pad at the top (like this one). I know a lot of people play FPS games on their controllers, but I use a keyboard and mouse for those. For me, the "joystick at the bottom" design is gonna cause thumb pain from the way I hold the controller (N64/GCN-style). I wish you could swap their positions like the Thrustmaster. I've been longing for a wireless controller with this featureset.
Great video. I ordered the the white one last week.
No gyro means it's terrible.
imagine spending Scuf patent trolling while not being able to match valves 5$ controller and hobby projects like the alpakka, especially after solarlight proved that gyro can match a mouse in PC-FPS, basically outdoing and oliterating what all the consoles pros said was impossible in one tournament.
Never spending over $100 without hall effect
My FPS freeks fit, but the front plate blocks them. Have you tested them fully on the controller? You can feel them rubbing the plate and getting caught up on it. It even affects in game sensitivity due to it getting blocked.
My man pulled a clip from Chappelle Show. Nice.
I was waiting for your review to order it and just today it shows me available so I just ordered that one white, though I wanted the gray one but the custom options did not show me that one. Thank you for your input!
Once they add hall effect joysticks then I will consider purchasing one of thier products.
Makes sense
Worrying that that the analogues had a mind of their own and also that the overclock results weren't amazing showing many high readings and high jitter
All I want is the elite series 2 or dualsense edge will hall effect 0.002 deadzone and 0% error circularity that's all!
when i get the money this is the controller im getting, i love it
They sell them in Best Buy. Best Buy carries a lot of Corsair hardware. Only the gray, Pro version as far as I could see. Bought mine there last week, hope this helps someone
i get mine in tomorrow i cant wait to play around with this
For the price I wish It would have come with a case, still happy with it though, great vid
I wish the wired version still had the mouse click triggers
They don't.only wireless one have mouse click.
I got an add for the scuf envision pro right before this video
I’m not lying
22:44 is that light bleed or is it intentional? I must've somehow missed the rgb part of the video
Great review as usual tho. Scuf is really stepping it up, I like this even tho it has a few cons
For docked Steam Deck users, it actually works wired... BUT none of the special buttons work, making it basically just a normal controller. Returned immediately. :(
Thank you for your review! Have you tried 8000hz before on a controller?
It's about time PC got an exclusive controller that's worth buying, instead of being for a console first and can be used for PC.
nice controller but for that price i don't know why they can't just use hall effect sticks in them.
Best controller that's worked good for me for quite a while is the fusion 2 controller for Xbox. Have zero problems and I've been using it for over a year.
Thats nothing. It should last way longer, Scuf never last beyond 2yrs. I will never buy from them when they are always lacking in durability which is the most important thing on a controller, Scuf is one of the worst company in terms of customer service. Its common that controllers gets broken under delievery and they wont even answer you if something happens, You are being forced to sue. Scuf is the most disgusting company around, No one should buy their products ever.
@@toprap88 ya for sure lol it seems like scuff controllers are getting worse in quality with every new version. Don't know about this new one but still don't trust it and too expensive. Just got the fusion 3 controller and I'm liking it so far
@@darkknightdio7247 Yeah shame I cant stand xbox buttons, Seems like my only option is Razer Wolverine V2 Pro. I like it alot but 300usd in my country without a case, Thats just disgusting. I love Razer but I dont like this. Seems scummy, You got any suggestions for me? Cant find anything else and I need at least 4ekstra buttons, I like phat look of xbox controllers they fit so good in my hands. PS is terrible compared to it, Analog placement is just terrible for your thumb and it slips easily out of your hands. Been looking for a while, Cant find anything else😑
@@toprap88 the power A fusion 2 or 3 is a really good option for an affordable good quality controller with nice paddles. The razer controller looks nice. I've tested a friend's out and I don't like where the paddle placements are. The fusion 3 controller has nice paddle buttons on the back. They sit a little high for my taste but I don't have an issue using them.
Getting mine next month. I've topped out with R16 i94000k & 4090. Thanx so much for the review.
Great review. How do you think this controller holds up for fighting games? specifically the d-pad
If you don’t want to get stick drift from trial and error don’t know why it’s more known, just don’t use your thumb stick click, sounds silly as it removes a whole function but my elite v2 has last 2x as long as my previous after doing that along with my scuf reflex and some cheaper controller options I found that most games have an automatic sprint option nowadays and the occasional crouch shouldn’t kill you, but that Left stick press over and over will kill you
These are sold at Best Buy along with direct from Scuf
Can't wait for the hall effect version
I only use controllers that have a chatpad....so not many.
Great review as always, it's a really nice controller hopefully they make a PS or Xbox version.
Also both versions are on/at Best Buy
I have a question that may not have a "definite" answer yet.
I'm a big fan of good quality competitive controllers like these...and I'm an even BIGGER fan of the extreme tension stick modules that BattleBeaver (and a few other companies) have implemented into their controllers. With Hall effect modules being the new absolute golden standard for stick modules, do you think it's possible that one of these companies will figure out how to implement extreme tension into Hall effect modules?
Because if so....😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍.
HYPR Does that, I don't know how strong the tension is but they have a video on their channel thats say they are able to increase the tension in a HE stick
AND, HYPR also switch to hall effect sensors, which nobody else is really doing right now with controllers like these. Scuf sure isnt. @@Podawski
Just when I had decided i was going to keep this Elite Series 2...
DAMNIT.
The G keys are so sick, you can use text macros so at the end of a match, instead of typing GG EZ, you can set G1 to type it 😆😆
32:32 scared the shitout of me i have headphones on max volume lol
i gotta get this. all those extra keys will be great for binding scripts.