These provisional "altered scales", compared to strict diatonic scales, they are like American English versus British English. The problem with Jazz, same as with American English, is that sometimes a player may use all notes from these "provisional scales", which results in "heavy Yankee accent". They are oversaturated, and then "tension" loses meaning. (Because every song played with them, begins sounding the same - which is a major complaint against Jazz, predictability of sound quality despite "improvisations"). However, by picking just some "altered notes", one or two, here and there, is enough to pass as "an American" (or Jazzed-up song) and create interest. Jazz, by definition, SHOULD allow that. What is your opinion about this?
I would say, there are no jazz police, so there are no rules. But there are different styles. In old school traditional jazz, do not play the scales- play chord tones. In bebop, add chromatic enclosures and scales, in the 60' 70' start playing real outside stuff. When playing anything think about why you play it and make it sound good. I think that's where I'm coming from. Still trying to make it all sound good. And there are so many options for this, and the names are only to make it easier to talk about and pass on to the ones who want to know.
Serious question: do you and Jens have the same editor? I notice some similarities in the humor 😂 .. since I play both instruments, I may be the only one that notices
@gtrbarbarian @zebozi thank you for noticing. Jens and I go 30 years back as friends. We know eachother pretty well and I guess have the same kind of humor. We do not have the same editor, but maybe some of the same mindset :)
No not really beacuse I do not see the 3rd as the 10th. Only the b10. Maybe its me. When you talk extensions I think 9, 11, 13. b9, b10, #11, b5, b13. I try to use the extensions from the natural 7 tone scales, major, minor, melodic minor, harmonic minor, harmonic major - When looking at the extensions from these scale you do not get the overlapping numbers. Of course If you only look at the extension as individual sounds and not as a part of a chord beloinging in a scale, you can basically call the extensions any name. Like in the diminished scale - 8 tone scale. Here you get the double notes because of the extra note in the scale. I think its easier to overview when I see the extensions a parts of chords belonging to scales.
That's probably true too :) music theory is a funny thing, try naming the tones in the Eb altered scale. The scale is E melodic minor, but seen from the Eb7 dominant perspective, that just gets crazy lol
In ad-hoc improvised and made-up music, that deliberately does not use diatonic scales but rather adds various twists, according to time and mood and number of glasses of scotch, we can't talk about "scales" nor proper naming convention. American Jazz was ditching "scales" and grabbing "new scales" as the baby changes diapers.
Fantastic practical intuitive way to teach this man! And love the crazy video clips to break it all up too!
Yes after one serving of altered scale you need a little distraction. Thank you so much for the kind comment.
My pleasure
These provisional "altered scales", compared to strict diatonic scales, they are like American English versus British English. The problem with Jazz, same as with American English, is that sometimes a player may use all notes from these "provisional scales", which results in "heavy Yankee accent". They are oversaturated, and then "tension" loses meaning. (Because every song played with them, begins sounding the same - which is a major complaint against Jazz, predictability of sound quality despite "improvisations"). However, by picking just some "altered notes", one or two, here and there, is enough to pass as "an American" (or Jazzed-up song) and create interest. Jazz, by definition, SHOULD allow that. What is your opinion about this?
I would say, there are no jazz police, so there are no rules. But there are different styles. In old school traditional jazz, do not play the scales- play chord tones. In bebop, add chromatic enclosures and scales, in the 60' 70' start playing real outside stuff.
When playing anything think about why you play it and make it sound good. I think that's where I'm coming from. Still trying to make it all sound good. And there are so many options for this, and the names are only to make it easier to talk about and pass on to the ones who want to know.
I love the sound from the sax player.
Thank you so much, that's me.
Serious question: do you and Jens have the same editor? I notice some similarities in the humor 😂 .. since I play both instruments, I may be the only one that notices
Me too.
@gtrbarbarian @zebozi
thank you for noticing.
Jens and I go 30 years back as friends.
We know eachother pretty well and I guess have the same kind of humor.
We do not have the same editor, but maybe some of the same mindset :)
You think it's weird to have two nines but it's not weird to have two tens?
No not really beacuse I do not see the 3rd as the 10th. Only the b10. Maybe its me. When you talk extensions I think 9, 11, 13. b9, b10, #11, b5, b13.
I try to use the extensions from the natural 7 tone scales, major, minor, melodic minor, harmonic minor, harmonic major - When looking at the extensions from these scale you do not get the overlapping numbers.
Of course If you only look at the extension as individual sounds and not as a part of a chord beloinging in a scale, you can basically call the extensions any name.
Like in the diminished scale - 8 tone scale. Here you get the double notes because of the extra note in the scale.
I think its easier to overview when I see the extensions a parts of chords belonging to scales.
True, but it's probably easiest just to go with the naming convention that the rest of the world uses to avoid confusion...
That's probably true too :) music theory is a funny thing, try naming the tones in the Eb altered scale. The scale is E melodic minor, but seen from the Eb7 dominant perspective, that just gets crazy lol
@@sorenballegaardmusic I heard that Kenny Garret looks at everything in the key of C. I can dig that but his ears are extra large.☮️
In ad-hoc improvised and made-up music, that deliberately does not use diatonic scales but rather adds various twists, according to time and mood and number of glasses of scotch, we can't talk about "scales" nor proper naming convention. American Jazz was ditching "scales" and grabbing "new scales" as the baby changes diapers.