Packout VS Systainer - The Best Tool Storage
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- Опубликовано: 24 май 2024
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Ah, I remember when my guy was trashing Festool. Now look at him, with his 3 dust extractors, the $400 dollar cyclone thingy, even got the $200 dollar blue box with an apron and salt shaker.
Welcome to Festool :)
The spend that never ends
I use both Systainers and Packout. Festool stays in the shop for woodworking, and Milwaukee goes in the truck and to the job.
Same here. Festool doesn't survive GC crews on site without hawkeye supervision
I do the same. Even with babying the systainers I have had them break on me. Systainers are a sleek design, just not durable for the job site.
My buddies love to roast me when I pull up with my systainers looking like a big ass copy machine. Asking if I can send out a fax for them 😂
😂
I have store them in my office. Blends in well. 😄
LOL
🤣 That's hilarious! They do look like office equipment/ copy machines.
As a GC of 24 years, I thought I was obsessed with tools, you make me look normal. I wish I could afford your collection honestly.
There is being a tool junky, and then there is being obsessed with overpriced plastic boxes. Those plastic boxes are a fashion, a bit like shoes are for girls.
@@kiwigrunt330 I agree but I don't wear red pumps either
The drawers and the front loading packouts are a game changer, not having to unstack made the difference for me
On my 2 drawer packout I've cut the bottom out of the top drawer and fixed the 2 drawers together to make one big drawer. That really is a game changer being able to fit a circular saw (and much more) in a drawer.
Systainer T-locs, and systainer III's (not the old gen I stuff), can be opened and accessed while stacked. I do it all day every day. I will go weeks without unstacking my primary boxes (the two stacks I have all my most used tools in).
You just open the box you want, which locks the lid to the box above it, then you lean the stack backward (I do this against my body, so I don't have to hold it and it makes sure I can't slip and let stuff fall), and then you just bend over and pull all the tools you want out.
I will run all day with my roughly 30-36 inch high stacks (the limiting factor on the stacks is how high they can be while I can still walk them up and down stairs and over uneven terrain without hitting the boxes against the ground). I have never had any need to unstack them.
Also, they are VASTLY lighter than drawers. That is the killer for me. How heavy drawers are. A T-loc I is under 3 pounds. 3 of them stacked on top of each other are under 9. The 3 drawer packout unit is 22.5 pounds. And that's only about 14-15 inches of stack. If you scale that up to a reasonable amount of storage space (say, a 30 inch high stack), you would be looking at 45 pounds EMPTY. 30 inches of T-loc I's Is probably under 20 pounds. And they get lighter as the boxes get bigger. 2 T loc V's stacked on top of each other are about 11.5lbs, and that is over 30 inches.
Yep..... he finally got the Festool bug. It's funny to think that you were in a pickup truck and were kind of anti- Festool a year or two ago. I have a alot of Festools..... but I like the Milwaukee Packout system much much better. The Systainers get beat up pretty fast and they have changed their style at least three times over the past years. The Systainers are fine to carry my Festools but I would never use them as organizers because they are not as robust and you have alot less options. I went full Festool when I first discovered how good it was years ago but I learned that it has its limitations. You'll see........
Stop being so aggressive aweigh your tools, my pack out microwave and sustainer crockpot have both leasted years
Interesting. Yeah I’ll definitely be happy to report back after more use. So far I’ve been aquiring festool/ systainer over the past two years and it’s been great for us. But we will see!
I'm leaving systainers because I'm tired of pieces breaking off
Fes boxes definitely more fragile. Especially the trim on their vacuums. Fiberglass tape + JBWeld is good, but definitely annoying to have to repair
How aggresive you guys throw systainers around?
I have just about all the Festool tools, but when it comes to drills their proprietary chucks drive me nuts. Which is why I put my milwaukee drills in the Festool boxes and paint the twist lock red. Now you need to build some racks for those boxes. Not fun when the one you need is on the bottom and you have to pull five off to get to it.
My packout is definitely heavier than my tanos but it survives the cold weather and back of my truck better. Tanos gets brittle in our Wisconsin cold. I do agree with many points made here though!
I think packout makes a lot of sense for trades who often use bigger, heavier tools, need to carry more consumables, etc, especially for those working in unfinished spaces. For installers, trim carpenters, and trades who have to deal with finished or even lived-in spaces, systainer is just so much lighter, more convenient size, and just plain more clean-looking, even if you're not in it for the festool tool system--which is popular with finish carpenters for the reasons you pointed out, and systainer is just a bonus of the purchase.
Nice to see Richard back at full power.
You can check out systainers here amzn.to/454w5Nq and packout here amzn.to/3Vh2tsA
I broke a systainer at work. We Have a larger building at my work and I loaded up a Systainer and had milwaukee box on the back of a golf cart with some other tools to go to another area. The systainer hinge like pin on the back sides of the case shot out and the top flopped open when I took off. The tool inside was okay, thankfully. But it wasn't a hard fall and was my fault cause it was just loosely set in the back. But afterwards it showed me that anything can happen whne you least expect it. Love Festool and Milwaukee.
As someone who struggles with organization, Festool and systainers have been life savers!
The same parent company owns festool and tanos. Also owns sawstop.
It's not Festool it's Festool 😂
I have done the opposite.
I went from Systainers to Packout. The systainers are grest for tools with lots of accessories but have a box for every individual tool takes up far too much space in the van and takes too long to load and unload the tools.
& the biggest reason for me is they break so easy . Expensive to replace
I sort of go back a forth, my everyday setup seems to work better on packout. Neither setup is outright better at all though
Why on earth do you have individual boxes for every tool? I agree, that WOULD take up a ton of space, but I don't see any reason to actually do it.
Personally, My systainer collection is modest, but I have multiple tools in every box except my sander, and that's because neither the sander or the box belongs to me . I also picked systainer largely because they are vastly more space efficient than packout (there was a spreadsheet on the festool owner's group forum that I won't link here as I think youtube looks unkindly on external links).
I also don't load and unload the tools. Because the boxes are so light, I just carry entire stacks into the jobsite. And access the tools while the boxes are stacked. (a T-loc I, the smallest T loc, is under 3 pounds. When I show up on the jobsite, I am not carrying one tool. I am carrying, in 1 hand, 60+ lbs of tools.
I really don't get how people think Systainers are supposed to work. Every time I see people who are not me using them, I think "what are you DOING?" Why would you spend all this money for premium tool cases and then not actually fill them up?
But as the other guy says, yes. They are fragile. I will give them that. They ain't free, and they are NOT apprentice proof, at all.
Wow, Richard! You have really gone whole-hog into the Festool universe!!!! Festool really is all about being a “system”, from the Systainers to the dust extraction. Everything is well thought out and planned to work together. Festool doesn’t always hit a home-run with their tools but they are always a joy to use.
I've never used Festool products, but I'm a solid Milwaukee tool and Packout user. Their containers are bulletproof in the van, in the elements and taking to jobsites. Your point on Festool's organization all in one container is a HUGE benefit, so I certainly understand why you like them so much. I try to pack my bags and containers with every related accessory I need, because it does make a big difference in your workflow and efficiency.
i agree with everything you said but it only aplies to finish work in my opinion. i love my systainers, they are great for kitchen and finish work but they are not strong enough for framing and earlier stages of work. i use the dewalt toughsystem for rougher work and systainers for the finish tools.
Im in the big leagues now,im rocking the mini sustainer with the 3 hand sanders. Woop woop
That table saw is crazy 🤪 I want to get my hands on one.
I use both systems, Systainers for everything tool and woodworking related that goes out to the sites in the work trailer, and then Packout is for all my trade tools and materials, painting, drywall, plumbing, electrical, tile etc. goes in the Packouts so I can roll stacks of each trade into the jobsite when they are needed. I made a Packout stack mobile spray rig just for spraying kitchen cabinets with the work top attached on top with my Fuji Turbine permanently attached and all guns, funnels, etc., below in drawers for onsite cabinet spraying versus at the shop. They each have their uses and strong points for my company. I went all Festool 10 years ago and haven't regretted it at all!
I've been using systainers for about 20 years. They are much tougher than they look and hold lots of items. I love that all generations can be connected together and you can fit them to your dust extractor....it looks ultra professional in a clients home or commercial maintenance setting. Spend a fortune on Bott van racking, and you have the most well-organized van that it is possible to own. All really well thought out, even down to the map on the lid that shows how everything fits back into the case.
I have both. For Systainers they even make a larger XXL Boxes I use to carry my Drywall And Paint gear in as well as they can stack on top of my vac, other than that I use packout drawers, Crates and rolling tool boxes for all non Festool or brands that use the tanos system. I think it’s still good to have two different systems, I still love my packout too. Put them in the bed with all my other stuff without worrying if it will break. I have to Put my systainers in the cab because they definitely would break if the Happen to fall over. Tanos definitely needs to upgrade there plastic to whatever Milwaukee is using.
Now you’re making me want to sell my old stuff and get these new Systainers. Love that table saw too!😊
You’ve come a long way since I first started watching you. I remember when you were using your Dewalt miter saw without a blade guard on it. Thanks for the share!
Glad you are joining the club 😁👍 I chose Festool/Tanos almost 30 years ago, just for the same reasons! Here in Germany it was available , but only in 1 -2 shops per city. As a semi professional using the tool sometimes a year later, I still can be sure , all necessary stuff is in the package 🤗👌 Nice to know: way back Festool intended to have the systainers for shipping purposes only! The customers in the early days were supposed to bring it back , but that never happened 😂😉
This helped 100% with my decision, was researching this alot, those couple of inches all around it's just dead space, the quality and reinforcement of the plastic is fantastic but they had in mind just this idea to look cool, army style, like we drop our tools by parachute, I like their snap system and they can do anytime a second system similar to systainers that can click into already existing packout and just name differently like Tanos (Festool's partner that manufactures the systainers) did
TTS Tooltechnic Systems is a company based in Germany. They invented the Systainer and produce it for themselves and as an OEM for others. They also own Festool, SawStop, Shaper, Tanos. So Tanos and Festool systainers are similar.
I would love to see you give a review on your take of their table saw. I've seen it at the demo days and stuff and am thoroughly impressed, but I'd still watch the video and love your feedback. I'm not so much a trim guy as an all around-er but I do so many little jobs that a small portable table saw would be amazing to have when I need a small cut or two here and there but certain other tools just won't work or give the quality the table saw can
Really starting to drink the green Kool-aid these days
Totally agree with everything said here. Id add that the extractors are another plus to the festool system. They integrate so well with the systainers and even the chip separator. You may need to get some sys-drawers for that wall behind you.
He had the Festool chip separator, did you catch it on one of the pans?
@JLLG2 yes I did. He just didn't mention it, so I though I would.😊
I have both. Festool tools just stay in systainers and my Ridged and Milwaukee tools go in packout. I like packout for being able to transport very easily. I need this since like you I don’t leave any power tools at my job sites.
At the risk of ending up on some kind of government watch list, can I ask where one might find that sick “Killdozer” shirt?
whistlin diesels you tube channel
I use festool and I’m looking into mod box for I could know electrical work from carpenter tools fast. I remember your first Festool miter saw video.😂😂
I literally have a dewalf arsenal because of you… not sure how I feel lol but keep doing your thing!
lol, thats how you know youve made it man; festool tape measure and all. Youve earned it.
I am more triggered by the fact you don't have a smaller blower to blow off your tools before you pack them up than anything else you have ever done lol.
haha
I am the same way as him. Gotta keep it clean
Definitely. I love my little hikoki blower that's the size of a drill. I had no idea how useful it would become
Same for a lot of professionnal makers and diy makers …. One you go festool never you comeback loooool
I hired my new guy hes got ocd, my barely used mini blower quickly became his favorite tool lol
As both a Red tool & Festool owner, I can’t argue with your logic. I’ve gotten to the point where I won’t buy a tool without a hard case. If you ever plan on loading your tools in a truck, van or trailer, hard cases are a key way to protect your investment. It’s too easy to damage or destroy thousands (!) of dollars in professional tools just moving them to & from the job site. Milwaukee proved that they can organize with their track saw packout (except for the diagrams). I love both red & green tools, but seriously, organize your tools in hard cases if you want to continue to sell to people whose living relies on keeping their tools in good shape and making it easy to know what tools are in which case (& no reading required). Professional tools should come with a protective case. Period. Of course I’ll expect to pay extra to get the hard case. Just be as serious about packaging your tools as I am about selecting the tools I use.
Looking forward to that video about the table saw. Curious on how it holds up on hard woods
I switched from ToughSystem 1.0 to ToughSystem 2.0 to Flex StackPack. I definitely get the complaint about the Milwaukee PackOut’s footprint with the corner rails
The Festool SYS-AZ system saved my shop and workflow.
I prefer Systainers because they are much easier on your back when loading and unloading the van or carrying gear up the stairs (happens daily)
I've taken out the plastic inserts and use each Systainer to store a variety of tools and accessories.
You're making valid points. For me, I don't like the extra 3-dimensional space the Systainer system uses. I carry all my corded hand tools in a 3-level rolling tool box plus accessories. All my cordless tools, chargers, accessories, etc. fit into one 3-level rolling toolbox. If I used the Systainer system this amount of tools would fill my truck. With my 2 rolling boxes I can fit all those tools into an old VW Beetle. When I need my chop-saw I pick it up and throw it into the truck. I don't need the Systainer system box taking up extra room. Non-electric hand-tools I throw into carry-bags. Just personal preference. I would hate to be unstacking Systainer cases every time I needed to use a tool that wasn't on top of the pile.
DANG !!!! Richard's balling outta control ! You've got a small fortune in festool setting there. I don't blame ya though, you definitely get what you pay for in this case.
I have a mix of Festool and Milwaukee as well. I have festool for certain tools that are simply better or no competitor has such as the Domino, Track saw, Sanders / Dust Extraction. But for basic tasks such as impacts, drills, oscillating saws, sawzall, skill saw are all Milwaukee. Alot of which have 3rd party inserts for the tools. I have the Milwaukee 4-in-1 Installation driver in a small packout with the insert, and other tools in their dedicated small packout as well which saves space even compared to the systainer.
Bros a whistlin diesel fan, I knew I always liked you.
I'll stick with my makita makpac system thanks, changed the moulded inserts to foam and labelled the outside. All are sorted, durable and carried via a trolley.
I’ve been going between the Milwaukee and the Macpac . I recently got a Makita track saw and I’m looking for a better way to organize my home shop and I looked at some of the containers with drawers and was pretty impressed. Where do you typically buy yours? I found them to be relatively hard to find.
You may or may not know, but Makpacs are made by the same company (TANOS), and are compatible with systainer--they clip onto the bottom of new systainers just fine, because they have retained backwards compatibility with the older systainers.
I have to agree with some comments about you switching over to festool, you were trashing them before. It’s almost as if you are trying to justify why you’re buying festool. Seems like you can afford it now no need to try to convince folks that it’s simply about form fit and function.
Richard, where did you get the Makita miter fences from? Does that come with crown stops?
Kizen fence system. Richard has a dope custom Makita color.
I don’t have any experience with Festool. I have heard that they are very refined tools. I like the mini track saw and that table saw in a box is impressive. However I think Packout has been on top since they have been out. The Sustainers are very neat and I do like the way they organize them. I couldn’t agree with you more that Milwaukee tools should come with Packout cases. I think if I had a shop that the sustainers would be a cool choice, however for a job site I thin Packout wins out. But to each their own. I am glad you like what you have.
Richard, did you get the cart along with the tablesaw? It's a very integral part of that system as it adds outfeed support when necessary. Great video. 👍🏻 I did notice the cart later in the video. Well done.
I completely agree, I sold off all my Packout and bought Systainers, they were just too big and bulky in clients homes. I now have the Festool bug
Now the question is…are you gonna re-paint your window trim lime green? Would love to see the table saw video. Love your channel
I picture labeled all my metabo metabox's. def was a task but the labels are very valuable
The tools such as the table saw (Min 12:10) or the vacuum cleaners with their clear, tidy German industrial design are in great contrast to your work, e.g. the mantle for the fireplace. It's funny that craftsmen make wall paneling like in a castle and love to use tools that are designed in the style of Bauhaus.
your comment makes no sense at all.
You’ve started something now Richard 😊
The xxl systainer comes in two heights I think. The low one is what I mean here, I think it’s 237. One layer of base foam, the lid foam and two layers of the hard epd or epm (whatever it is called) but the stiffer one. Inside that I have my 7 most used drills. 4 festool s and 3 makitas. I was doing what your doing for a while but now I really just keep saws in the original systainers. Anyway, the 7 drills wide, no rattles. All handle up. Takes up less space.
I had a pack out box that wasn’t tied down right flew off my truck while driving fairly fast, when I picked it up it just had a small scratch
tanos is a TTS Tooltechnic company, just like festool, that was spun out from the original festo
you can almost fit 2 of those drawer systainers in the volume of that packout
Love the hkc 55. A little weak but so handy.
True! I noticed the same
The mafell kss 40 and 50 have more power than the hkc. They work pretty much the same. Also come in systainers. Another battery platform but oh well.
Got the last gen csx yet? It's probably my favourite tool, and I have a quite a few festool tools.
And the thing about large tool boxes, like some packout, is that when full they are VERY heavy. I'm currently migrating to all festool for tool/fastener storage.
Congrats on your new toys! Its gonna be really funny when you pull out your Milwaukee Nailers out of those systainers. 🤣
As far as i know Festool doesnt make nail guns
Hey can you post a link for the surf prep and castle systainer?
tanos is a great system, i'm on it myself. only complaint is the brittle ABS material...they need to be made out of polymer.
I am all-in on systainers, but am lusting after those Packout 2 drawer units. Having to unstack to get at stuff is a pain. Hopefully Festool comes out with a L-sized sortainer to match it.
I like the Sortainer drawers being swappable so easily. I have my normal configuration; but can mix and match the fasteners that I expect to need for a particular job really easily.
The different colors also makes a difference. I can use the colored latches to tell at a glance what a particular systainer has in it without needing to look at the label. Or for the most used stuff, tell my kids that I use as helpers which one to grab pretty easily.
I’ve loved your channel for a long time and I’m happy to see you have now finally gone balls deep into Festool 😂
I’m also a Festool tool addict 😂 it’s just like Pringles once you pop you just can’t stop
Keep doing all the great videos
And you haven't even found the small sub containers for the drawers on Etsy yet. Welcome to the world of Systainers.
The idea behind systaiers is great. Have everything you need for a function in one place, even if it means you need duplicates of consumables such as drill bits. It saves time. This is something I don't think the other vendors of packout boxes have figured out yet.
I think they are made for two different usage. The Milwaukee pack out appears to be more on sight trades use and sustainer for shop or vehicle use. This is just my opinion, I understand that you can use both either way
10:38
I would love to see a Festool table saw review.
I think packout works best for the service tech/ heavy construction fields, but I definitely appreciate your points on the sustainers.
I feel like Pack Out is really geared towards the rough trades (who work during the rough in stage of new house construction). Framers, electricians, plumbers, etc. Systainers, I've only actually seen on-site being used by finish carpenters.
I can't wait until I'm making so much money doing this that I can justify buying a $400 drill because the case matches my other overpriced tool cases. Props man, you made it!
I still remember years ago when you tried a festool chop saw and you didn’t like it.
Hello so happy after all this years you finally convinced yourself to switch to festool and hard to believe you actually did it better later than never I did it long time ago for exactly same reason and not even one minute regrets
Thank you for your time keep going
Paul
I was watching for a while, but I had to switch to Whistling Diesel. I even bought the 'killdozer' shirt, it fits better than the DeWalkee shirt
I think for the North American market Milwaukee is putting more effort into putting stuff into modular storage than anyone else besides Festool. Bit kits, First aid, socket sets, hole saws, and maybe more are being offered in Packout now.
15:25 how well do the drawers stay shut? Packout has the metal safety bar. Also, how do these stack in your van?
You need to get racks with the drawers so you don't have to unstack. Festool has a line of van racks as well. - Chris
Buddy has the sustainers but the plastic always felt so cheap, almost brittle, while the pack out always feels more robust.
What is the grill as I want to get one ?
Well don’t know how you got the summer systainer early but lucky you. Not for sale til June . Must be nice to beget the freebies from festool
Love your content and journey!
We have Festool/Tanos, Packout, Rigid, Dewalt, and Bosch L-Boxx.
Festool is great for indoor or van stored, 1-2 man crew finish carpenters like yourself. Best for Organization, capacity to footprint/weight factor, system integration & your tools aren't randomly banging around loose in their boxes damaging bits and such. They fit in most truck cross over job boxes too. They are not the most durable tho.
Packout is basically indestructible, semi lockable (only for casual theft, hate that that's even a thing), & if not using drawers, waterproof. These can go out with GC crews doing something more rough than finish carpentry. Rigid same, but less options.
Bosch L-Boxx is in a craptastic class by itself. It will break itself even in the workshop, bought it before Packout became a thing, & wish we didn't.
Peter Millard from 10 minute workshop bought that table saw when it came out. He said it's good for small and thinner trim, but once you get into larger stuff you can it's not as happy.
Have you had any issues? How's that whistlin diesel shirt?
Milwaukee packout for screws and little bits is superior in my opinion. Bouncing around in the van the individual screws stay put..no spill over. And if I need to I can mix and match individual little trays into one packout. Close it up..carry it up a ladder without having to worry about it spilling.
Are sustainers dust tight? How about water tight?
I could have a packout in a room where alot of dust is being created and the tools inside will be dust free
You forgot to say that all systainers lock on to festool vacuums. Really easy way to roll them when you need vacs at jobsites anyway
Is there a dolly to roll a stack around? Impressive stuff. I'm currently using Craftsman's T-Stack and looking to upgrade.
Yes there is.
There are several options for that. Even the vacuums act as a cart.
You should compare the festool tools to Milwaukee for durability, speed, etc..🤘🏽
You refer to the OEM as Tanner however you apparently don't have any generic product from them only the Festool included containers have you ever ordered anything directly from them do they offer a generic organizers?
I have been saying the same thing about the size of these large boxes for years . As a finish carpenter ,Packout and box system like it are way too big and cumbersome. I really like and use Dewalt tstak system , they are the perfect size ,about the same size as the Festool boxes and they are not to expensive either.
The other nice thing about going from Packout to Tanos ,is you are not contributing to the C.C.P. anymore.
Yep. Awesome design and execution. Looks great!
Except the first and longest upright looks odd there by itself. Maybe it's just me. Still it's an awesome piece.
I think the sustainers looks more professional. They don’t seem as heavy duty. But both are a pain if you have them stacked and need the bottom tool.
Sustainer system sure looks thin and made of cheaper plastics.
The plastic is not cheap, it is very durable and you tend to treat it nicely because of the money that you spent on it.
You can be as careful as you want until the handle wears out and you have a systainer in someone's driveway with the corner crushed
It is thin abs brittle plastic
Those plastic tabs look a little weak. But a great review. As a DIY'er I've bought into the handstaner system. But it requires the use of feettaner which is a bummer. 😅
My blood is red ! So are my tool 😅 haha those fest tools are so nice
The screw box on top of the sortainer is great too. Add that to the system roll and it's great for moving around buildings with flat surfaces. FESTOOL 497694 SYS 1 T-LOC SYSTAINER SCREWBOX
I tried to start with Systainer years ago, but couldn’t find any for sale. Went to Packout and they were everywhere. Got several Systainers for sale.
Festool tools are too expensive as well.
This is pretty funny actually - I have a boatload of Festool amd systainers but acknowledge that the packout systen also has its advantages to organizing tools. I would agree that the systainers are unbeatable for organizing and housing Festools, but the packouts are fantastic for miscellaneous handtools and accessories.
Just wait until you get down the other slippery slope of German power tools. Mafell, the P1cc jigsaw is an absolute animal. The KSS40 or KSS50 might also be a good fit into your work flow. Timber Wolf Tools is the US distributor.
Been on a similar kick in my trailer as well, Packout and systainers… waiting for the new SYS3 sortainers that are already out in Europe as they are designed to work the Bott smart van system. (Which I highly recommend you check out if going all systainer!!!!) Also check out the Dashboard PWS instead of the flimsy MFT3 table, huge improvement from a small American company.
all depends on how you treat your tools.
There’s a reason you see trucks/ute with packouts sliding around the back in all weather and not systainers. Don’t get me wrong I have both but they both shine in different categories.