Brother, if you have any questions or need advice, feel free to message me, I am happy to help. And I am glad you have joined the path of truth, may Allah continue to give you success.
@@MHM452 Alhamdu lillahi, Eid Mubarak, I was having stress and anxiety over simple life struggles and I went mental and shaved my glorious Beard, wallahi, I want to celebrate Eid at the mosque but Im afraid to show my face till my beard grows, am I being ridiculous? Or should I just go?
As someone who is not Muslim, I made this mistake recently by extending my hand to shake hands with a Muslim woman. Of course, shaking hands is a custom common to most of us in the west and I honestly didn't consider that there would be a problem with it in this circumstance. Thankfully she didn't seem upset by it and politely explained that this was not allowed for her, and graciously gave me a fist pump instead, which given her youth seemed entirely appropriate.
SimplyHuman yea it's clear and cut. It's a shame because most of us have to do it because we don't want to be put into strange scenarios and we want to get a job or get into a school. It's not allowed though, and there's no difference of opinion on it.
Polly Kerr lol. Don’t make stuff up when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Do some research, there’s evidence and proof that Islam is the real and only religion that can take you to heaven. Do some research because if you don’t you might regret it. Will regret it actually.
We should star practicing on demand sneezing for those extra awkward situations where you feel like a rabbit in the head lights. On a serious note however I pray Allah grants us maturity in the deen so that we can adopt the way of the prophet SAW without feeling insecure
'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger as saying: Receive teaching from me, receive teaching from me. Allah has ordained a way for those women. When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female, they should receive one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death. Sahih Muslim, 17:4191
oh it’s so uncomfortable i hate hand shaking as a female feels so bizarre.....just had this conversation with my mom i feel like handshakes should be between men and women should be like soft touch on shoulder or some type typical embrassing light touch
i am new muslim......yesterday (19/05/2016) i say Salaam to a lecture of mine at my department and she did not reply my salaam to me what the rule or law is this? in my society if you dont shaking hands with a woman thats a 100+% offend? what will you going to do to those societies? thanks
Welcome beloved brother , Allah blessed you with faith in him and to follow the way of life and teachings of our prophet . A Muslim should in most cases return your Salam when greeted , but at times people feel shy in public or some people just don't greet " strangers" , or maybe the person misunderstood or wasn't able to hear you.... any of these situations are possible . Give them the benefit of the doubt . I live in a western country and the same applies .. wherein society sees the avoidance of shaking hands as something offensive. There are ways around it .. Listen 9:05 The main thing for you bro.. is too find qualified teachers in your locality and develop a close interpersonal relationship with them ... scholars the likes of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf , Dr omar abdullah farooq etc.. find good muslims too surround yourself around, take things slowly bro .. deepen your faith and make sure to develop a solid foundation in sacred knowledge. Quick question .. which country are you from ? Did you convert from another religion?
Shaking hand with strange women is haram for men, non Muslims don't have guidance but we have, so we don't need to insult them by showing insulting behavior but can politely explain them, Allah will surely makes them understand because it is the divine teaching of Islam, it must effects the hearts. If you explain them nicely and they understand, they will love this teaching of Islam and definitely it will create the zeal in their hearts to learn Islam and you, may become a mean for their embracing Is Islam.
KomsKala Kangeman u r following the wrong scholar my friend he's pro Sufi his answers are not relevant Look up for scholars like Nauman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk they'll are completely non denominational in their Outlook perhaps they'd help
All to do with intentions…but human contact could spark something sometimes maybe but it is about intentions if you treat someone as friend or brother Allah knows what is in your heart ❤
Lets just leave this issue as one of cultural preference and modesty, not a religious issue. Calling it a "law" trivializes the issues Islamic scholars should be discussing and giving direction on. Those should be questions of ethics - where the world surely needs more directions.
When a woman pays in cash and has not been disrespectful nor is in public immodestly she does not deserve to have the change thrown at her or slapped down on the counter, shoved at her so she has to pick it up off the floor when the man accepting the payment is the cashier. It is just rude and drives customers away. Do Muslim women never have to run out to by a gallon of milk?
I'm not sure what you're referring to. It's quite simple, if paying in cash and I receive change back, they simply have their hands above mine and drop it into my hands. Queen Elizabeth doesn't touch men's hands, she wears a glove if she must shake hands. It's a form of respect to women. Plus, I wouldn't want to touch others men's hands, don't know where it's been and I'm happier that way. To each his own. There's freedom of religion if you don't like it don't live where there's religious freedom, this is not directly to you, but to others that misunderstand Islam from lack of knowledge and choose to hate 1.7 billion people in the world.
plenty of cashiers here in eastern europe (Bulgaria) jus drop the change on a plate on the counter or even the counter itself rather than handing it straight into your hands!
I am a muslim woman and shop with non muslims, and even I don't have any problem. They don't touch my hand when returning money, so even among atheistic non muslim man there is this idea that you try not to touch a woman's hand or any part of the body without her consent. You don't have to push money in my hand with force to reach it to me.
This would be mainly applied I’m guessing in a corporate environment otherwise there shouldn’t be any reason for random people to shake your hand without knowing them
Shaking hand is made a big issue by muslims. It may be prohibited as precaution but one cannot say its haram. Sahih al-Bukhari 2788 Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to visit Umm Haram bint Milhan, who would offer him meals. Umm Haram was the wife of Ubada bin As-Samit. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), once visited her and she provided him with food and started looking for lice in his head. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) slept, and afterwards woke up smiling. Umm Haram asked, "What causes you to smile, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?" He said. "Some of my followers who (in a dream) were presented before me as fighters in Allah's cause (on board a ship) amidst this sea caused me to smile; they were as kings on the thrones (or like kings on the thrones)." (Ishaq, a sub-narrator is not sure as to which expression the Prophet (ﷺ) used.) Umm Haram said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Invoke Allah that he makes me one of them. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) invoked Allah for her and slept again and woke up smiling. Once again Umm Haram asked, "What makes you smile, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?" He replied, "Some of my followers were presented to me as fighters in Allah's Cause," repeating the same dream. Umm Haram said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Invoke Allah that He makes me one of them." He said, "You are amongst the first ones." It happened that she sailed on the sea during the Caliphate of Mu'awiya bin Abi Sufyan, and after she disembarked, she fell down from her riding animal and died Quran: 4:86 وَإِذا حُيّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيّوا بِأَحسَنَ مِنها أَو رُدّوها ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كانَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَيءٍ حَسيبًا When you are greeted with a salute, greet with a better one than it, or return it; indeed Allah takes account of all things.
TheOneMaNz If two sins are worse than one, and one sin is enough to send you to hell, does two sins send you to two hells, or is it "in for a penny, in for a pound"?
TheOneMaNz ' Then it is ' Zina ' - Fornication. An ' Animal Instinct' forbidden for Jews, Christians and Muslims !! MASHA ALLAH !!! All ' Believers in The Book of God ' !!!!! Most women - when 5hey Marry - want their husband " Clean and Pure ". In Sha Allah ! Thus - ' The double standard that is " Prevalent " Workdwude Currently with Massage Parlours and Briyheks Catering to ' Patriarchial Degeneracy ' are a ' Major Abomination. Monotheistic Faiths - their Motive is to " honor " both Genders and Create " Clean Lifestyles ". Not favor Men in these Areas. Especially in Islam - where Wives, Sisters and Mothers have Many Rights Over their Men - thus ' Can Call them to Purity and Family Servixe as opposed to Zina and De-Generation'. Allah swt - has provided humans with " Intellect ", and " Powers of Communication, Love, Reasoning ' above thise if Animals - so tbat yhey may create ' Healthy Families on All Levels'. Not ' resort ' to Abominations and De-Generacy.....
But what if a man puts out his hand for you to shake? It’s a bit awkward and he might take it to offense if you don’t shake his hand, it’s just a hand, not lustful touching or anything close to zina.
With all respect this is unrealistic in the western world... when someone stand their hand and you refuse it it’s kind of rude... I don’t initiate it but don’t refuse it either and I feel no sexual inclination towards that opposite gender by shaking their hand...
If people applied the above Islamic ruling and also not to be alone with someone with opposite gender who you can marry, there would be no need for the #me too movement. There would be no cases of sexual harassment if the above rule is applied....
If it's unrealistic, make hejira to a land where you can practice it. No one's forcing you to live in the west. Billion+ people on the planet are living in Muslim majority places or where they are comfortable practicing Islam
Do you mean "Where in the Qur'an does it say, that if a rule or saying is not in the Qur'an it is invalid?"? If so, the Qur'an states multiple times that it is the complete word of God and that is needs no addition to it. This means that everything that's not in the Qur'an is automatically invalid, otherwise one would ascribe sayings to God, which aren't Gods. And that is condemned in the Qur'an.
Muslims in West may find difficult to avoid such hand shakings at the beginning if we are strong in that , then it goes on easier later. Rather we should not shake hands with others by pure intension like Hamza said. We Muslim only should change the society , not to follow others habits. If we get backward then who will going to change.
muhamedans should be expelled from the west, they are the enemies of everything free societies stand for: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30 sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70 sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93 sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76 sunnah.com/nasai/26/60 sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122 sunnah.com/muslim/16/82 sunnah.com/nasai/26/61 sunnah.com/muslim/16/84 sunnah.com/urn/1261940 sunnah.com/muslim/16/81 alla is NOT the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the true prophets demon alla is the idol of slaves, descendants of unmarried slave Hagar and her bastard son Ismael, who was expelled from Abrams house and lineage
Please there is no consequence of his beard upon you. Have respect and honour for the Shaykh. Open your heart to the teachings. His beard is quite frankly none of your business.
I am deeply respectful and I listen carefully to the wisdom of Shaykh Hanson’s teaching. I am a modern, ‘liberal’, Western Muslim, born and raised in the West. I believe the appropriate limits of male-female interaction are contextual, ‘urf us as man-made as ‘Shari’ah’. Shaking hands in the West is no problem, this is normal behaviour, it is not inappropriate. I think the great Shaykh may have moderated his position these days.
@presleymaddox Can you find a mutawatir hadith or a quranic ayah saying that shaking hands is haram? No. To say it is haram would certainly be haram itself in that case. However, you can find quranic ayahs stating that drinking alcohol is haram. Suffices to say that YOUR logic is flawed my friend.
@@fibonacci3138It was narrated that Ma’qil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him.” Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh.
Re: Assalamualaikum brothers is there a law in islam that a non muslim women(christian/jew) need to revert to islam when she get married to a muslim man,and how about the new born baby, which does he/she follows in terms of religion,tq so much hope to get a feedback, Assalamualaikum.
If there is not. They wll invent one.. Better live by ur sense of morality and get close to allah.. Strength ur Tawheed and Be a good human being.. I believe that interaction with opposite sex is fine as long as its not sexual. And as human beings.. Irrespective of west or east, we know when things are supposed to be inappropriate. Carry yourself with dignity and seek allahs help to guide u thru the right path.. In shah allahh.. Allah subahana wathaala knows the best
i shake the hands of my madam. but she give his hands to me.. but i dont know that is not allowed.. and i tell sorry madaam.. shes maried but i dont have any malice for that and i still dont know too much for muslim culture except about the food.. im chef
👑🌍💍👠💅💋🙏: People in general should keep THEIR HANDS TO THEMSELVES!! When I was growing up we weren't allowed to other people or let alone be on their property uninvited we we taught to RESPECT OUR NEIGHBORS! and the BOOK OF PROVERBS SPEAKS REGARDS THIS and other matters regrading human behavior and attitudes towards men and women and children too.. it's 31 chapters people should READ IT! 👑😘❤️🙏
@@axbdaz4735 Not quite. The Quran says obey God (Allah) and obey the messenger. The point of Islam is obeying God and God's message alone and according to Quran, the messenger's only job is to give the message of God, which is the Quran. The reason the Quran says to both obey God and obey the messenger is that telling the polytheists and other non-Muslims simply to obey God would not have worked since, in their eyes, they were already obeying God.
@@technoloverishyou have no idea. so where you get your prayer method from? And where's the law of adultery? Is it in Qur'an? Just to give a few examples!
@@axbdaz4735 Read the Quran. It's clearly stated in there. The law of adultery says that if anybody commits adultery, four witness have to come forward and confirm that it happened, and that if it's proven true, both people have to be given 100 lashes.
yes, he is, he is a disrespectful sufi slave of child rapist muhamed and he seeks protection in the west against the many islamic sects that like o kill muhamedans gay coward munafiq
@@lemonade9715 Why not? I know what they believe in, and why they reject truth, reason, humanity and facts, some of them try to have good intentions but in the end they also blindly follow a MAN, defending all his lies and crimes, even this: sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70 sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93 sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76 sunnah.com/nasai/26/60 sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122 sunnah.com/muslim/16/82 sunnah.com/nasai/26/61 sunnah.com/muslim/16/84 sunnah.com/urn/1261940 sunnah.com/muslim/16/81 THEY compare themselves only to the murderer of islam, muhamed. And they falsely compare the true prophets in the bible with the pagan they worship. Now THAT is irony, isn't it?
@@worfoz ...You want to attract people to your corner...stop being abusive....arkh 🤮... How about using intelligent arguments...posting comments just to insult, tells a lot about the person hiding behind their phones or computers....Cowards!
@Young Dawah exactly, so stop accusing christians of shirk and admit that your isa is nit their Jesus muhamed was not right about religions, I do not have any religion but your sect is based on so many lies and false accusations so why can't you just admit that your islams is not the truth about christianity, Jesus, Torah or whatever muhamed falsely claimed? you demand respect but you keep insulting christianity disrespectfully your uisa is NOT Jesus, OK? stop being so rude
Theres no diplomacy when it comes to the limits set by Allah. The Sheikh was embarrassed due to his weakness. He was ashamed of the president but he forgot that Allah is grester than the president and Allah deserved more that we feel shame in front of him. And the wife not wanting to shake the hand while the muslim for whom it is clearly forbidden wanted to shake hands and the woman had the guts to deny the handshake and the muslim not having the guts to do so, Subhanallah. This, exactly this is the reason why our Ummah is weak. We fear the people and their thoughts more than Allah. And we pretend to be wise by crossing over the limits of Allah. How can there be wisdom in disobeying Allah? I hope that was a lesson in the mindset of the Sheikh. We must only please Allah and no one else. May Allah guide us
@@melika3519 dear brother go and read the ayat carefully! It's does not say anything about sex and it's not referring to sex! And yet the Sharia confirm that by disallowing touching strange women! You can't just refer ayat to different meaning which is not there ! When touching women referring to sex it becomes ' Zina ' a major Sin ! And there is no way you need just to do ablution after that and it's okay !! Please make sure you get the right meaning ! If you need the Ayat references don't hesitate to ask !
@@melika3519 Dear sister i apologize ! Was not my intention! I'm having a rough day ! Yeah you bring the correct ayat and the meaning is about touching strange woman you need to do the ablution! I never said you need to take a bath !!
The fact that he held your hand tight sounds like he gets aroused. This guy certainly is not practicing Muslim. but the point is exactly the reason why Islam does not endorse female shaking hands with Male and vise versa
He probably is ok with it. It’s not a crime to shake hands with a women he’s not married to but he is advised to abstain from it because a man’s weakness is women and he might get some feelings of gratification.
FABRIKKATOR quite the opposite but I wouldn't expect you to understand. I say islam and you think Isis, so what can we expect. Women are precious, not property. FYI there's a saying if our Prophet that says "the one who guards what's between his legs and his stomach, he's promised salvation". So that doesn't sound like a tradition of men who "think with their dicks".
So... Who said that shacking hands between a man or a woman is "dishonourable" or a "sin"... Was it Allah or Muhammed?... By the way... Who has checked Allah's sexuality to see if he is a "true man"?..
First of all. This has no basis in the quran. Second, why does he have to look like a desert dweller when God gave him the intellect to use and understand that Faith has nothing to do with a a uniform dresscode, except what arises sexual arousal. Peace.
This has no basis in the quran sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70 sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93 sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76 sunnah.com/nasai/26/60 sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122 sunnah.com/muslim/16/82 sunnah.com/nasai/26/61 sunnah.com/muslim/16/84 sunnah.com/urn/1261940 sunnah.com/muslim/16/81 and alla is NOT the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the true prophets demon alla is the idol of slaves, descendants of unmarried slave Hagar and her bastard son Ismael, who was expelled from Abrams house and lineage
Perways Hussein For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him- Prophet Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم [Source: Tabaraani in Al Kabeer]
So if not in Major Hadith book you gonna reject it? Fine. May Allah guide you. okay then tell me in a major Hadith book which says prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم shook hands with non mahram?
Oh my non-existent God, it must be truly time consuming, to even think about all these rules and regulations, let alone observing them. No wonder, such a religious law obeying person, is not finding any time, to actually think for himself. But then again, if everything is already laid out for them in this Book of law, for every little pea brain to understand, one doesn't have apply oneself in any way, and so one can just lie back, and enjoy the Nothingness, were once was a brain.
There is no Wahabi , Suffi , Shia ! That does not exist in Qur'an. That does not exist in Islam. Allah said in Qur'an : Who makes sects and divides ummah you , Muhammad , have nothing with him , I'll deal with him on the Day of Judgement.
The real reason they will not shake hands is because, despite all Muslims might tell you, they believe Women are ritually impure: In a breathtaking insult aimed at women Qur’an 4:43 includes them in a list of things that can render a man ritually impure. This means that if a man did his pre-prayer ablutions and touched a woman afterwards it will have to be done again before he can pray: “O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of “nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands.” So merely having been in contact with a woman renders a man’s prayers unacceptable in the eyes of Allah! The reluctance of many Muslim men to shake the hands of women in social or business therefore, has nothing to do with ‘modesty’ as is often claimed but rather springs from a desire not to be defiled by them.
@@juanhunglow2220 the fact that it talks about impurity about one's self, just for themselves, not about women being impure, just because you've seen impurity and women in the same paragraph you've unanimously came to your own conclusion that god is saying women are impure lol
Asim Qureshi - “not about women being impure”. Read it again - “or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands.” Muhammad’s mysogenistic is well documented. For example is it possible to communicate a lower opinion of women than the one Muhammad expressed in the following hadith? “It is related from Usama ibn Zayd that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I have not left after me a trial more harmful to men than women." (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:33) Or have I misread that as well?
@@juanhunglow2220 women are a trial for men? Have you seen the type of women of today? You do know the prophet wasn't talking about every single woman right? Or are have you just got something against the prophet that you will just use hadith and manipulate them? Women as in women who will tempt you and make you go astray, please don't just read the hadith and come up with your own conclusion
This man is truly brilliant and very articulate. Alhamdu lila I learn so much, as a new convert I need this kind of direction
welcome to our community, dont ever give up when you encounter difficulties as a new muslim!
Alhamdulilah we love him too we listening so much knowledge And gentle,humble and deep.. May ALLAH always blessed him health And jannah amiinn
Please check mufti Abu layth as well.
Brother, if you have any questions or need advice, feel free to message me, I am happy to help. And I am glad you have joined the path of truth, may Allah continue to give you success.
@@MHM452 Alhamdu lillahi, Eid Mubarak, I was having stress and anxiety over simple life struggles and I went mental and shaved my glorious Beard, wallahi, I want to celebrate Eid at the mosque but Im afraid to show my face till my beard grows, am I being ridiculous? Or should I just go?
I homeschool and educate my convert wife using His lectures. Truely a brilliant man masha Allah
@@worfoz Are you okay? Maybe it was her own choice. Shame on you
@@worfoz asshole big time! anyhow i pray for your repent p
I like Hamza Yusuf, but take the athari aqeedah. Ashari is not from the salaf.
MashaAllh how beautiful it is that he smiles after he talks about his wife
Yeh.
SubhanAllah!
I picked up on that also.
Subhanallah
Coronavirus throwbacks got everyone reflecting manshallah.
LOL
rip
May Allah bless him Janatul Ferdous, your brother Sayed Masih Hashimi from Afghanistan.
As someone who is not Muslim, I made this mistake recently by extending my hand to shake hands with a Muslim woman. Of course, shaking hands is a custom common to most of us in the west and I honestly didn't consider that there would be a problem with it in this circumstance. Thankfully she didn't seem upset by it and politely explained that this was not allowed for her, and graciously gave me a fist pump instead, which given her youth seemed entirely appropriate.
Jason S. She shouldn't have touched you though...
SimplyHuman yea it's clear and cut. It's a shame because most of us have to do it because we don't want to be put into strange scenarios and we want to get a job or get into a school. It's not allowed though, and there's no difference of opinion on it.
neverfearingdifficulty 89 it's clear cut that shaking hands is ok. touching for desire or zina is haram
@@ibraheemhoag670 clear cut, really??? I guess the Sheikh completely missed this obvious piece of information in the books of knowledge!!
Polly Kerr lol. Don’t make stuff up when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Do some research, there’s evidence and proof that Islam is the real and only religion that can take you to heaven. Do some research because if you don’t you might regret it. Will regret it actually.
I missed young hamza wish he was young till this say and I'm 20 yrs old
What a beautiful soul
What a true muslim.
Why can't RUclips have ♥️ button , sometimes I wanted press ♥️button when Shaik smile 😘
We should star practicing on demand sneezing for those extra awkward situations where you feel like a rabbit in the head lights. On a serious note however I pray Allah grants us maturity in the deen so that we can adopt the way of the prophet SAW without feeling insecure
'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger as saying: Receive teaching from me, receive teaching from me. Allah has ordained a way for those women. When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female, they should receive one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.
Sahih Muslim, 17:4191
@@axbdaz4735 and what
Aameen aameen yarabbal aalameen
😂 sneeze right on the hands. Ultimate deterrent
May Allah rabbul izzat give all of us jannat ul firdaus for eternity in the hereafter. Ameen
Mashallah very knowledgeable man may Allah take him jannatul fardowsa🤲🏼
He's alive, mate
Sheikh you're awesome. MashaAllah
JazakAllah khayr for this
oh it’s so uncomfortable i hate hand shaking as a female feels so bizarre.....just had this conversation with my mom i feel like handshakes should be between men and women should be like soft touch on shoulder or some type typical embrassing light touch
Mashallah God bless you dear brother ❤
i am new muslim......yesterday (19/05/2016) i say Salaam to a lecture of mine at my department and she did not reply my salaam to me what the rule or law is this?
in my society if you dont shaking hands with a woman thats a 100+% offend? what will you going to do to those societies?
thanks
Welcome beloved brother , Allah blessed you with faith in him and to follow the way of life and teachings of our prophet . A Muslim should in most cases return your Salam when greeted , but at times people feel shy in public or some people just don't greet " strangers" , or maybe the person misunderstood or wasn't able to hear you.... any of these situations are possible . Give them the benefit of the doubt .
I live in a western country and the same applies .. wherein society sees the avoidance of shaking hands as something offensive. There are ways around it .. Listen 9:05
The main thing for you bro.. is too find qualified teachers in your locality and develop a close interpersonal relationship with them ... scholars the likes of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf , Dr omar abdullah farooq etc.. find good muslims too surround yourself around, take things slowly bro .. deepen your faith and make sure to develop a solid foundation in sacred knowledge.
Quick question .. which country are you from ?
Did you convert from another religion?
Newman MMUah
brother we don't give salam to non maharum women...
Shaking hand with strange women is haram for men, non Muslims don't have guidance but we have, so we don't need to insult them by showing insulting behavior but can politely explain them, Allah will surely makes them understand because it is the divine teaching of Islam, it must effects the hearts. If you explain them nicely and they understand, they will love this teaching of Islam and definitely it will create the zeal in their hearts to learn Islam and you, may become a mean for their embracing Is Islam.
Also brother mewman MMUah, it is not obligatory for women to response the salam of strange men, so she didn't do anything wrong.
KomsKala Kangeman u r following the wrong scholar my friend he's pro Sufi his answers are not relevant
Look up for scholars like Nauman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk they'll are completely non denominational in their Outlook perhaps they'd help
All to do with intentions…but human contact could spark something sometimes maybe but it is about intentions if you treat someone as friend or brother Allah knows what is in your heart ❤
Lets just leave this issue as one of cultural preference and modesty, not a religious issue. Calling it a "law" trivializes the issues Islamic scholars should be discussing and giving direction on. Those should be questions of ethics - where the world surely needs more directions.
Mashallah Allah apko is ka ajar Dy
When a woman pays in cash and has not been disrespectful nor is in public immodestly she does not deserve to have the change thrown at her or slapped down on the counter, shoved at her so she has to pick it up off the floor when the man accepting the payment is the cashier. It is just rude and drives customers away. Do Muslim women never have to run out to by a gallon of milk?
I'm not sure what you're referring to. It's quite simple, if paying in cash and I receive change back, they simply have their hands above mine and drop it into my hands. Queen Elizabeth doesn't touch men's hands, she wears a glove if she must shake hands. It's a form of respect to women. Plus, I wouldn't want to touch others men's hands, don't know where it's been and I'm happier that way. To each his own. There's freedom of religion if you don't like it don't live where there's religious freedom, this is not directly to you, but to others that misunderstand Islam from lack of knowledge and choose to hate 1.7 billion people in the world.
plenty of cashiers here in eastern europe (Bulgaria) jus drop the change on a plate on the counter or even the counter itself rather than handing it straight into your hands!
I am a muslim woman and shop with non muslims, and even I don't have any problem. They don't touch my hand when returning money, so even among atheistic non muslim man there is this idea that you try not to touch a woman's hand or any part of the body without her consent. You don't have to push money in my hand with force to reach it to me.
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4203703/jewish/Whats-Up-With-Orthodox-Men-and-Women-and-the-Handshake.htm
Gazing means staring at a woman . Handshakes can be sometimes neutral , but I understand why it is better to avoid it
This would be mainly applied I’m guessing in a corporate environment otherwise there shouldn’t be any reason for random people to shake your hand without knowing them
Shaking hand is made a big issue by muslims. It may be prohibited as precaution but one cannot say its haram.
Sahih al-Bukhari 2788
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to visit Umm Haram bint Milhan, who would offer him meals. Umm Haram was the wife of Ubada bin As-Samit. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), once visited her and she provided him with food and started looking for lice in his head. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) slept, and afterwards woke up smiling. Umm Haram asked, "What causes you to smile, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?" He said. "Some of my followers who (in a dream) were presented before me as fighters in Allah's cause (on board a ship) amidst this sea caused me to smile; they were as kings on the thrones (or like kings on the thrones)." (Ishaq, a sub-narrator is not sure as to which expression the Prophet (ﷺ) used.) Umm Haram said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Invoke Allah that he makes me one of them. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) invoked Allah for her and slept again and woke up smiling. Once again Umm Haram asked, "What makes you smile, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)?" He replied, "Some of my followers were presented to me as fighters in Allah's Cause," repeating the same dream. Umm Haram said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Invoke Allah that He makes me one of them." He said, "You are amongst the first ones." It happened that she sailed on the sea during the Caliphate of Mu'awiya bin Abi Sufyan, and after she disembarked, she fell down from her riding animal and died
Quran: 4:86
وَإِذا حُيّيتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيّوا بِأَحسَنَ مِنها أَو رُدّوها ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كانَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَيءٍ حَسيبًا
When you are greeted with a salute, greet with a better one than it, or return it; indeed Allah takes account of all things.
where in the Quran its written that the punishment for adultery is more for married than for unmarried
most rules arent derived directly from the Qur'an.
2 sins are worse than 1.
And how can you be adulterous when not married?
TheOneMaNz If two sins are worse than one, and one sin is enough to send you to hell, does two sins send you to two hells, or is it "in for a penny, in for a pound"?
TheOneMaNz It is called fornication.
TheOneMaNz ' Then it is ' Zina ' - Fornication. An ' Animal Instinct' forbidden for Jews, Christians and Muslims !! MASHA ALLAH !!! All ' Believers in The Book of God ' !!!!! Most women - when 5hey Marry - want their husband " Clean and Pure ". In Sha Allah ! Thus - ' The double standard that is " Prevalent " Workdwude Currently with Massage Parlours and Briyheks Catering to ' Patriarchial Degeneracy ' are a ' Major Abomination. Monotheistic Faiths - their Motive is to " honor " both Genders and Create " Clean Lifestyles ". Not favor Men in these Areas. Especially in Islam - where Wives, Sisters and Mothers have Many Rights Over their Men - thus ' Can Call them to Purity and Family Servixe as opposed to Zina and De-Generation'. Allah swt - has provided humans with " Intellect ", and " Powers of Communication, Love, Reasoning ' above thise if Animals - so tbat yhey may create ' Healthy Families on All Levels'. Not ' resort ' to Abominations and De-Generacy.....
3.45 Jerry Springer lol 😂🧕
TY
My mom says that men and women cannot shake hands because sometimes when they do there is chemistry.
@dave sagar lmao only if they´re homosexual :D
😁😁😁
But what if a man puts out his hand for you to shake? It’s a bit awkward and he might take it to offense if you don’t shake his hand, it’s just a hand, not lustful touching or anything close to zina.
With all respect this is unrealistic in the western world... when someone stand their hand and you refuse it it’s kind of rude... I don’t initiate it but don’t refuse it either and I feel no sexual inclination towards that opposite gender by shaking their hand...
So Islam is impractical
If people applied the above Islamic ruling and also not to be alone with someone with opposite gender who you can marry, there would be no need for the #me too movement.
There would be no cases of sexual harassment if the above rule is applied....
No.its not. Ive lived and worked in UK all my life and i have avoided it.
If it's unrealistic, make hejira to a land where you can practice it. No one's forcing you to live in the west. Billion+ people on the planet are living in Muslim majority places or where they are comfortable practicing Islam
where in the Quran that if you dont find any thing in Quran do refuse it.
Good one brother😂😂😂😂👌👌👌
Do you mean "Where in the Qur'an does it say, that if a rule or saying is not in the Qur'an it is invalid?"? If so, the Qur'an states multiple times that it is the complete word of God and that is needs no addition to it. This means that everything that's not in the Qur'an is automatically invalid, otherwise one would ascribe sayings to God, which aren't Gods. And that is condemned in the Qur'an.
Muslims in West may find difficult to avoid such hand shakings at the beginning if we are strong in that , then it goes on easier later.
Rather we should not shake hands with others by pure intension like Hamza said.
We Muslim only should change the society , not to follow others habits. If we get backward then who will going to change.
muhamedans should be expelled from the west, they are the enemies of everything free societies stand for:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridda_wars
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93
sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76
sunnah.com/nasai/26/60
sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122
sunnah.com/muslim/16/82
sunnah.com/nasai/26/61
sunnah.com/muslim/16/84
sunnah.com/urn/1261940
sunnah.com/muslim/16/81
alla is NOT the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the true prophets
demon alla is the idol of slaves, descendants of unmarried slave Hagar and her bastard son Ismael, who was expelled from Abrams house and lineage
Our sheikh’s beard has come a long way since this video 😂
Please there is no consequence of his beard upon you. Have respect and honour for the Shaykh. Open your heart to the teachings. His beard is quite frankly none of your business.
@@lkjhf and my comment is also none of your business
9:08 woah he gave him the death stare for saying what he said
Ibraheem Ahmed lol because the guy wasn’t listening and kept repeating himself 🤦🏾♀️
Muslims need to read quran with hadith
I am deeply respectful and I listen carefully to the wisdom of Shaykh Hanson’s teaching. I am a modern, ‘liberal’, Western Muslim, born and raised in the West. I believe the appropriate limits of male-female interaction are contextual, ‘urf us as man-made as ‘Shari’ah’. Shaking hands in the West is no problem, this is normal behaviour, it is not inappropriate. I think the great Shaykh may have moderated his position these days.
Why are you a liberal? You don't have to be a liberal, a term that has a lot of negative meaning to it. Urf is followed by all Muslims.
Hukum should not be adjusted to fit the ‘liberal’ agenda.
Drinking alcohol in the west for happy hour after work is also normal behavior. Your logic is flawed.
@presleymaddox Can you find a mutawatir hadith or a quranic ayah saying that shaking hands is haram? No. To say it is haram would certainly be haram itself in that case. However, you can find quranic ayahs stating that drinking alcohol is haram.
Suffices to say that YOUR logic is flawed my friend.
@@fibonacci3138It was narrated that Ma’qil ibn Yassaar said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him.”
Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 486. Shaykh al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5045, that this hadeeth is saheeh.
6:20
Asalamu Aleykum lecture may Allah grant yhu...plz have question.1 is it allowed to visit grave of my sheick who passed away in every Friday
wa alaykum salam this is a bidah and very haram
Well, obviously you can visit the grave of your teacher 😅
How can i email sheikh hamzah? I need to ask him a question
*8:53* 😅😂😂😂🤣🤣
Allah says Follow Quran and saying of Prophet
Umar Empire NOW is Aya since 2002....1 2 3 4
There are no words...🙄
Re: Assalamualaikum brothers is there a law in islam that a non muslim women(christian/jew) need to revert to islam when she get married to a muslim man,and how about the new born baby, which does he/she follows in terms of religion,tq so much hope to get a feedback, Assalamualaikum.
andrey snake she doesn't have to accept Islam but hopefully she will after seeing the beauty of it. The kids must be Muslim.
Where is the Hadith where it says you can’t touch the opposite gender
Search on the internet
He said that in the Quran, it's told to lower the gaze. So if we have to avoid that, it's means that it's certainly forbidden to touch.
If there is not. They wll invent one.. Better live by ur sense of morality and get close to allah.. Strength ur Tawheed and Be a good human being.. I believe that interaction with opposite sex is fine as long as its not sexual. And as human beings.. Irrespective of west or east, we know when things are supposed to be inappropriate. Carry yourself with dignity and seek allahs help to guide u thru the right path.. In shah allahh.. Allah subahana wathaala knows the best
Yasir Qadhi said it's not haram XD
Yasir Qadhi misguides muslims
i shake the hands of my madam. but she give his hands to me.. but i dont know that is not allowed.. and i tell sorry madaam.. shes maried but i dont have any malice for that and i still dont know too much for muslim culture except about the food.. im chef
U can use hand socks
👑🌍💍👠💅💋🙏: People in general should keep THEIR HANDS TO THEMSELVES!! When I was growing up we weren't allowed to other people or let alone be on their property uninvited we we taught to RESPECT OUR NEIGHBORS! and the BOOK OF PROVERBS SPEAKS REGARDS THIS and other matters regrading human behavior and attitudes towards men and women and children too.. it's 31 chapters people should READ IT! 👑😘❤️🙏
ORTHODOX Jews, male, female, same thing.
There is no Wahbi , Sunni, Shia mention in Quran
Qur'an says to obey Allah and Muhammad. So it's say to be Sunni
@@axbdaz4735
Not quite. The Quran says obey God (Allah) and obey the messenger. The point of Islam is obeying God and God's message alone and according to Quran, the messenger's only job is to give the message of God, which is the Quran. The reason the Quran says to both obey God and obey the messenger is that telling the polytheists and other non-Muslims simply to obey God would not have worked since, in their eyes, they were already obeying God.
@@technoloverishyou have no idea. so where you get your prayer method from? And where's the law of adultery? Is it in Qur'an? Just to give a few examples!
@@technoloverish so you agree that Allah of pagans was same as Allah of Qur'an?
@@axbdaz4735
Read the Quran. It's clearly stated in there. The law of adultery says that if anybody commits adultery, four witness have to come forward and confirm that it happened, and that if it's proven true, both people have to be given 100 lashes.
I ask this respectfully please: Is Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Sufi? Thanks
yes, he is, he is a disrespectful sufi slave of child rapist muhamed
and he seeks protection in the west against the many islamic sects that like o kill muhamedans
gay coward munafiq
@@worfoz irony, any who knows sufis will never compare them to the murderers amongst muslims....
@@lemonade9715 Why not?
I know what they believe in, and why they reject truth, reason, humanity and facts, some of them try to have good intentions but in the end they also blindly follow a MAN, defending all his lies and crimes, even this:
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93
sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76
sunnah.com/nasai/26/60
sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122
sunnah.com/muslim/16/82
sunnah.com/nasai/26/61
sunnah.com/muslim/16/84
sunnah.com/urn/1261940
sunnah.com/muslim/16/81
THEY compare themselves only to the murderer of islam, muhamed.
And they falsely compare the true prophets in the bible with the pagan they worship.
Now THAT is irony, isn't it?
@@worfoz ...You want to attract people to your corner...stop being abusive....arkh 🤮...
How about using intelligent arguments...posting comments just to insult, tells a lot about the person hiding behind their phones or computers....Cowards!
@Young Dawah exactly, so stop accusing christians of shirk and admit that your isa is nit their Jesus
muhamed was not right about religions, I do not have any religion but your sect is based on so many lies and false accusations
so why can't you just admit that your islams is not the truth about christianity, Jesus, Torah or whatever muhamed falsely claimed?
you demand respect but you keep insulting christianity disrespectfully
your uisa is NOT Jesus, OK?
stop being so rude
Proper looks like jhonny depp
Hhhhh he does, doesn't he?
It's doesnt have to be ? Most of fiqh is discussed in the Hadith :D
carnagescythe360 And not all Hadith is correct brother. Hadith is not Quran.
@@hotdog7334 it is the interpretation of Qur'an, only through it you will get understanding what is the meaning of Aayath of Qur'an
Theres no diplomacy when it comes to the limits set by Allah. The Sheikh was embarrassed due to his weakness. He was ashamed of the president but he forgot that Allah is grester than the president and Allah deserved more that we feel shame in front of him. And the wife not wanting to shake the hand while the muslim for whom it is clearly forbidden wanted to shake hands and the woman had the guts to deny the handshake and the muslim not having the guts to do so, Subhanallah. This, exactly this is the reason why our Ummah is weak. We fear the people and their thoughts more than Allah. And we pretend to be wise by crossing over the limits of Allah. How can there be wisdom in disobeying Allah? I hope that was a lesson in the mindset of the Sheikh. We must only please Allah and no one else. May Allah guide us
Such silliness.
Adam Fitzgerald try to open your mind to things that are different from what you know and believe, the silliness goes away my friend .
ashnabiya
What does he mean as A 'Maliki' you dont lose your Wudu?. Somebody enlighten me I thought we weren't allowed to Shake Hands with Women?
Dear brother, in the Quraan surat nisaa (women) if you touch women you need to do ablution ! And sharia does not allow you to shake hands !
@@melika3519 dear brother go and read the ayat carefully! It's does not say anything about sex and it's not referring to sex! And yet the Sharia confirm that by disallowing touching strange women! You can't just refer ayat to different meaning which is not there ! When touching women referring to sex it becomes ' Zina ' a major Sin ! And there is no way you need just to do ablution after that and it's okay !! Please make sure you get the right meaning ! If you need the Ayat references don't hesitate to ask !
@@melika3519 Dear sister ! you are talking about a different topic! Please understand first the subject we are talking about !
@@melika3519 i'm wondering you read arabic ?! Can you put the ayat in questions in your next comment! I wanna make sur we are in the same page !?
@@melika3519 Dear sister i apologize !
Was not my intention! I'm having a rough day ! Yeah you bring the correct ayat and the meaning is about touching strange woman you need to do the ablution! I never said you need to take a bath !!
Sometimes I hug my guy friends I feel bad but I don’t want to be mean 😕
Be true
Offending Allah or your friends?? That's why you should not have friends from the opposite gender
You can hug them, god wont get mad
I shake the hand of an arab guy twice why he not refuse me if it is haram when I ask he give it without any hesitation and hold me so tight
He probably isn't aware
Maybe he was flirting
Maybe he was not a Muslim
The fact that he held your hand tight sounds like he gets aroused. This guy certainly is not practicing Muslim. but the point is exactly the reason why Islam does not endorse female shaking hands with Male and vise versa
He probably is ok with it. It’s not a crime to shake hands with a women he’s not married to but he is advised to abstain from it because a man’s weakness is women and he might get some feelings of gratification.
I used to find shaking hands a problem, because of all the sexual pheromones. But now I just wear mittens and a blindfold when women are present.
Simon Bishop wtf
Simon Bishop Lmao good one.
5:35 admits to talking to another mans wife! I would knock him out!
is this real? lmaooo
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4203703/jewish/Whats-Up-With-Orthodox-Men-and-Women-and-the-Handshake.htm
Of course it is where are u from?????
Muslims to argue and defend their faith, try to simplify and misrepresent non muslim life styles :) Funny arguments.
Why would Muslims want to not touch a woman naturally? It's pure respect towards her.
FABRIKKATOR quite the opposite but I wouldn't expect you to understand. I say islam and you think Isis, so what can we expect. Women are precious, not property. FYI there's a saying if our Prophet that says "the one who guards what's between his legs and his stomach, he's promised salvation". So that doesn't sound like a tradition of men who "think with their dicks".
@@lupealvarez7566 it's sunnah of Our Beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
So... Who said that shacking hands between a man or a woman is "dishonourable" or a "sin"... Was it Allah or Muhammed?... By the way... Who has checked Allah's sexuality to see if he is a "true man"?..
Carlos Bucio Borja God is ' Not Human ' - thus ' Has No Gender ' !!! More Spirit - as we will be ' In the Hereafter ' - In Sha Allah !!!
Terrisom Sufi
First of all. This has no basis in the quran. Second, why does he have to look like a desert dweller when God gave him the intellect to use and understand that Faith has nothing to do with a a uniform dresscode, except what arises sexual arousal. Peace.
This has no basis in the quran
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70
sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93
sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76
sunnah.com/nasai/26/60
sunnah.com/bukhari/63/122
sunnah.com/muslim/16/82
sunnah.com/nasai/26/61
sunnah.com/muslim/16/84
sunnah.com/urn/1261940
sunnah.com/muslim/16/81
and alla is NOT the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the true prophets
demon alla is the idol of slaves, descendants of unmarried slave Hagar and her bastard son Ismael, who was expelled from Abrams house and lineage
He is crazy
Why?
3 steps to shake hands of the opposite gender:
i) take it
ii)shake it
iii)leave it
how hard can it be, seriously
And a sin written, thank you.
No proof of that, welcome
Perways Hussein For one of you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle is better for him than that he should touch a woman who is not permissible for him- Prophet Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم
[Source: Tabaraani in Al Kabeer]
Gamer Z yes, and that is not from within the major hadeeth books
So if not in Major Hadith book you gonna reject it? Fine. May Allah guide you.
okay then tell me in a major Hadith book which says prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم shook hands with non mahram?
Oh my non-existent God, it must be truly time consuming, to even think about all these rules and regulations, let alone observing them. No wonder, such a religious law obeying person, is not finding any time, to actually think for himself. But then again, if everything is already laid out for them in this Book of law, for every little pea brain to understand, one doesn't have apply oneself in any way, and so one can just lie back, and enjoy the Nothingness, were once was a brain.
Oh my non-existent God,
yes, how can I help you?
@@worfoz, funny :)
@@christastempel5577 WOW-MAN, DO YOU THINK I AM A JOKE TO YOU????
stop hurting my non-existing feelings like that
@@worfoz, FUNNY !!!
whats wrong with this ruling specificially?
He's a Wahabi is it?
There is no Wahabi , Suffi , Shia ! That does not exist in Qur'an. That does not exist in Islam. Allah said in Qur'an : Who makes sects and divides ummah you , Muhammad , have nothing with him , I'll deal with him on the Day of Judgement.
Holy Son shaik is a sunni Muslim.
He is Sunni Asha'ari , he is neither Wahabi nor a Sufi .
He is a Muslim.
You have to give anyone a label aren't you?
The real reason they will not shake hands is because, despite all Muslims might tell you, they believe Women are ritually impure: In a breathtaking insult aimed at women Qur’an 4:43 includes them in a list of things that can render a man ritually impure. This means that if a man did his pre-prayer ablutions and touched a woman afterwards it will have to be done again before he can pray: “O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of “nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands.” So merely having been in contact with a woman renders a man’s prayers unacceptable in the eyes of Allah! The reluctance of many Muslim men to shake the hands of women in social or business therefore, has nothing to do with ‘modesty’ as is often claimed but rather springs from a desire not to be defiled by them.
Lol you've totally got the wrong end of the stick of it
Asim Qureshi - Really? Explain!
@@juanhunglow2220 the fact that it talks about impurity about one's self, just for themselves, not about women being impure, just because you've seen impurity and women in the same paragraph you've unanimously came to your own conclusion that god is saying women are impure lol
Asim Qureshi - “not about women being impure”. Read it again - “or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands.”
Muhammad’s mysogenistic is well documented. For example is it possible to communicate a lower opinion of women than the one Muhammad expressed in the following hadith?
“It is related from Usama ibn Zayd that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I have not left after me a trial more harmful to men than women." (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:33)
Or have I misread that as well?
@@juanhunglow2220 women are a trial for men? Have you seen the type of women of today? You do know the prophet wasn't talking about every single woman right? Or are have you just got something against the prophet that you will just use hadith and manipulate them? Women as in women who will tempt you and make you go astray, please don't just read the hadith and come up with your own conclusion
This was before he turned to deviance