We know that blue dye was very expensive in Biblical times and the Torah states the nations of the world traded it as a commodity. There are records in multiple different ancient nations that show the blue dye back then was created from snails: 1. The Greek historian Herodotus (c. 484-425 BCE) mentioned that the Phoenicians produced a highly prized purple dye from sea snails, which may have also yielded a blue dye. 2. The Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder (c. 23-79 CE) described the production of Tyrian purple dye from snails, which could turn blue after exposure to sunlight. 3. The Roman writer Vitruvius (c. 80-70 BCE - c. 15 BCE) also mentioned the use of sea snails for producing a blue dye in his treatise on architecture, "De Architectura." 4. Archaeological evidence from a 3,600-year-old workshop on the Greek island of Aegina confirms that the ancient Greeks and Romans produced blue dye from snails. 5. The Greek poet Oppian (2nd century CE) wrote a poem about fishing and described a mollusk that produced a blue dye. Rashi says that the Chilazone was a chomet and he says in another place that a chomet is a snail. Then we have the archeology that shows in Israel stockpiles of murex trunculous shells with holes in the shells where people who created dyes would puncture the shells. This does not prove 100% that the murex trunculous is the chilazon but it is definitely strong evidence of it... so much so Rabbi Belski held it was vadai the correct creature.
Brilliant! And to make a long story short; if you can fulfill a mitzvah then you should and there is no downside. It is almost a universal opinion now that we should see the Tekhelet and remember and be reminded of the Yam of Nisim and ultimately, the Kisai Hakavod. Making Tzizit without Techelet when we have it is doing a partial mitzvah only...Or don't wear tzitzit at all!
Rubbish. The Gemara says that if it isn’t tech else then it nullifies the mitzva. Do you think that you know better than Reb Chayim Kanievsky zatzal and the Brisker rov?
אולי יש לעורר שמדויק לשון הגמ' וכי לאכול מפרי' ולשבוע מטובה הוא צריך שבאמת מרע''ה למעלה משאר העולם שאנו אומרים ממש זה הלשון בברכת על המחי'. יישר כח כבוד הרב שכטר.
Your comparison of techeles to the timing lulav is false. Your are comparing a safek in the item to a safek in time. Compare a safek estrog to safek techeles. Furthermore the gemora in menochos says that if it isn't techeles then it PASSELS the mitzva of tzitzit whereas all white is definitely a mitzva.
@Nosson Rossman none at all. That’s what YOU did! There are two types of safek. A safek in Halacha and a safek in metzuiyut. There is also a chesron yediah which is NOT a safek! Perhaps you try learning the gemoras before you argue with me!
@@NathanL613 according to the Rambam there is NO safek until you have a vaddai. That is two chatichot. Have you learnt Keritot with the rishonim before you write?
That which mzk1 below writes about the Gaon, Reb Menachem Ziembe is a TOTAL FALSEHOOD. he was misinformed or made a mistake but my Rebbe, the Gaon Rav Simche Bunim Lieberman zatzal was by Rav Ziembe every Friday night in the Warsaw Ghetto and knew his opinion. Rav Lieberman survived the camps and broke a 50 year silence to fly to a conference in Vienna (!) to publicly deny that Rav Ziemba was for the uprising.
I personally think the opinion of the Radzinger rebbe and the ptil tekhelet institute are both valid. The only thing that makes it Pasul if it’s made from kala Ilan
Amazing. Another observation ( probably halachicly irrelevant) but in ALL of human history untill about 1600ce there were TWO materials capable of creating a durable color fast blue dye. Murex, and indigo (kaleh Ilan). ( There were only 3 more materials capable of creating a blue pigment). Blue- the rarest color occurring in nature.
This is incorrect, because indigo is known even from Rabbinic literature to be an non-fast dye, while Isatis Tinctoria (woad) was another source for colorfast blue-violet, if dyed properly. If indigo fits the bill for you, you also have to accept woad, black beans and at least one kind of spirulina that are all known as natural sources for blue-violet dyes.
Thank you 🙂
We know that blue dye was very expensive in Biblical times and the Torah states the nations of the world traded it as a commodity. There are records in multiple different ancient nations that show the blue dye back then was created from snails: 1. The Greek historian Herodotus (c. 484-425 BCE) mentioned that the Phoenicians produced a highly prized purple dye from sea snails, which may have also yielded a blue dye. 2. The Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder (c. 23-79 CE) described the production of Tyrian purple dye from snails, which could turn blue after exposure to sunlight. 3. The Roman writer Vitruvius (c. 80-70 BCE - c. 15 BCE) also mentioned the use of sea snails for producing a blue dye in his treatise on architecture, "De Architectura." 4. Archaeological evidence from a 3,600-year-old workshop on the Greek island of Aegina confirms that the ancient Greeks and Romans produced blue dye from snails. 5. The Greek poet Oppian (2nd century CE) wrote a poem about fishing and described a mollusk that produced a blue dye.
Rashi says that the Chilazone was a chomet and he says in another place that a chomet is a snail. Then we have the archeology that shows in Israel stockpiles of murex trunculous shells with holes in the shells where people who created dyes would puncture the shells.
This does not prove 100% that the murex trunculous is the chilazon but it is definitely strong evidence of it... so much so Rabbi Belski held it was vadai the correct creature.
Very good Shiur but how can anyone talk about Rabba Bar Chona in such a way?
rabba bar bar chana*
Brilliant! And to make a long story short; if you can fulfill a mitzvah then you should and there is no downside. It is almost a universal opinion now that we should see the Tekhelet and remember and be reminded of the Yam of Nisim and ultimately, the Kisai Hakavod. Making Tzizit without Techelet when we have it is doing a partial mitzvah only...Or don't wear tzitzit at all!
Rubbish. The Gemara says that if it isn’t tech else then it nullifies the mitzva. Do you think that you know better than Reb Chayim Kanievsky zatzal and the Brisker rov?
thank you for posting
Thanks so much
Why is it nobody including the Rav feel this way?
For this, RUclips was created.
Hi
MeGdolai Hador
אולי יש לעורר שמדויק לשון הגמ' וכי לאכול מפרי' ולשבוע מטובה הוא צריך שבאמת מרע''ה למעלה משאר העולם שאנו אומרים ממש זה הלשון בברכת על המחי'. יישר כח כבוד הרב שכטר.
Your comparison of techeles to the timing lulav is false. Your are comparing a safek in the item to a safek in time. Compare a safek estrog to safek techeles. Furthermore the gemora in menochos says that if it isn't techeles then it PASSELS the mitzva of tzitzit whereas all white is definitely a mitzva.
@Nosson Rossman none at all. That’s what YOU did! There are two types of safek. A safek in Halacha and a safek in metzuiyut. There is also a chesron yediah which is NOT a safek! Perhaps you try learning the gemoras before you argue with me!
@Nosson Rossman sorry. I should have mentioned that’s he’s my Rov and asked to send you his reply.
@@NathanL613 according to the Rambam there is NO safek until you have a vaddai. That is two chatichot. Have you learnt Keritot with the rishonim before you write?
The Rabbi made a tremendous mistake. Korach made his tzitzis COMPLETELY techeiles, all the strings and the beged (Targum Yerushalmi)
No Korach’s challenge to Moshe was, “if I have a 4 cornered garment that is the color techelet, would one be obligated to add Tzitzit”
@@adollarandSense Before you say "NO" look up the Targum Yerushalmi (known as the Targum Yonason) that I cited.
שכוייח
According to rav asher weiss this techelet is so far from emet , it is not even in the geder of suffik
That which mzk1 below writes about the Gaon, Reb Menachem Ziembe is a TOTAL FALSEHOOD. he was misinformed or made a mistake but my Rebbe, the Gaon Rav Simche Bunim Lieberman zatzal was by Rav Ziembe every Friday night in the Warsaw Ghetto and knew his opinion. Rav Lieberman survived the camps and broke a 50 year silence to fly to a conference in Vienna (!) to publicly deny that Rav Ziemba was for the uprising.
This man said that 8000 Jews had to die to make the Medina...he’s not my posek..I spoke to him
Wow to us from his Zionist thaught
Better no talis than one without תכלת!!!! Do me a favor...
I personally think the opinion of the Radzinger rebbe and the ptil tekhelet institute are both valid. The only thing that makes it Pasul if it’s made from kala Ilan
And what about the Gaon Harav Herzog who disagreed? Also it’s a machlokes the Rambam and Rashi which has never been resolved!
@@nathelondon3719 I tend to follow the Halachic opinion of the rambam. Personally it makes more sense to me
Amazing.
Another observation ( probably halachicly irrelevant) but in ALL of human history untill about 1600ce there were TWO materials capable of creating a durable color fast blue dye. Murex, and indigo (kaleh Ilan). ( There were only 3 more materials capable of creating a blue pigment). Blue- the rarest color occurring in nature.
This is incorrect, because indigo is known even from Rabbinic literature to be an non-fast dye, while Isatis Tinctoria (woad) was another source for colorfast blue-violet, if dyed properly.
If indigo fits the bill for you, you also have to accept woad, black beans and at least one kind of spirulina that are all known as natural sources for blue-violet dyes.