I wasn’t 100% understanding the point of “It’s not that you guys care about PVE, you’re just hurt about the broken promise”. Maybe it might just be me, but I cared about the PVE. The only reason as to why I settled was bc the developers themselves called it quits, made no future plans and there was nothing else in the hero shooter genre that was as entertaining as OW. We observably saw what the Devs were prioritizing when it came to OW and no one from the community that had a huge platform was speaking on it, so our voices were diminished. We could cry on Twitter all we want, but for what? That’s about it though, everything else was extremely on point. That comment just didn’t make sense to me, I did care. I did want an actual PART 2 to a game that was once amazing in my eyes. Oh well.
While I don't care about PvE, I do care about integrity of a company. If they can't uphold their promises, then I can't trust them on things I do care about. I too don't understand their point, is the implication that broken promises don't matter? If that's their point, that's a really pathetic anti-consumer mindset.
@@iminumst7827I guess the implication is that the current ow2 dev team just straight up is a mostly different team than the ones who made those decisions, and they are just dealing with the fallout
Yea unfortunately these high rank guys just dont understand why we wanted the pve. they have bitterness towards it as the thing that “ruined” the game but it wasnt. the teams poor management and just unfortunate circumstances ruined the pve. its from negligence, but it also an unfortunate tragedy for a game with so much potential. we lost something that could have been a powerhouse in the gaming community. now we’re left with just another half baked live service game. nothing that inspires inspiration like the original overwatch did. its a difference between people who love overwatch, and people who love gaming in general. i didnt want more overwatch, i wanted something much more. i want devs to build on something, to evolve their games into something much more. ow2 is more of the same
Couple points I disagreed with: 1. Spilo's rants against tank designs, specifically Hulk and Thor. I think Hulk and Thor are some of the most fun tanks ever designed between the 2 games. He talked about Thor's cooldowns feeling clunky but as a Thor onetrick in GM, I find it really satisfying how I can make use of each of his abilities to constantly have output. Also, he said something along the lines of "Is Hulk jump that good/even that important" ummm yes. Without Hulk Jump, he would just slowly walk at you as you slowly walk away. 2. AVRL's point about Overwatch 2's PR and the PVE were terrible points. "You guys didn't care about the PVE" ummm where'd you get that from? Overwatch always had such a cool backstory that people were really interested in and we wanted to see more cinematics and have more backstory and when they made the decision to make Overwatch 2 and abandon Overwatch 1 it was in the name of fleshing out the story and giving an incredibly unique PVE that supposedly be replayable with different skill trees. So it isn't just that a promise was broken, but also that we lost content for years for content that ultimately was shut down and we also lost all of that story that would have gone along with it. 3. I think a minor point I didn't agree with was the discussion of how many more heroes that are recognizable are they gonna be able to add. Well off the top of my head there is: Deadpool, Ultron, Dark Phoenix, Quicksilver, Sandman, Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Ant-Man, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer, Daredevil, Vision, Blade, Mysterio. 4. Role queue. Oh brother. Why are we doing this? Have we learned nothing? The reason we needed Role Queue in overwatch 1 & 2 was because the game balance was so out of wack that playing tank was either boring or miserable. The simple solution to this is focus the next hero releases on fun and innovate tanks as well as making sure that the problems (AOE sustain) that created horrible metas (GOATs) don't occur in this game. This game is new and fun so lets pump the brakes on role queue and focus on making a good game. 1-3-2, 2-2-2, 3-0-3, 1-2-3 can all be situationally fun comps and unless the situation arises where games are consistently being lost with 4-6 duelists and 0-1 tanks/supports, lets just wait and see what happens. Edit: For the talk about hero bans, I think it should be in every rank. That's how it works in R6 Siege, Dota, League and many other games. Samito had a great point about how the top 4% shouldn't be the only ones to customize their experience. I say this as someone who plays tank in Diamond and saw how brutal climbing out of plat was.
Point 2 as I stated in my comment was definitely my main ick. Aren’t broken promises and the lack of PVE intertwined? If we’re upset with the broken promise ofc we’re upset about what the promise was about (PVE). Such a nonsensical comment to make imo. It literally contradicts itself. If his point was “you guys would still be talking about it, you didn’t bring it up with MR!”. Like my man…everyone hates this comment (including me), but it applies here…it’s a game. Aka, one can only complain so much before they inevitably settle or move on. Regardless, his take was absolutely terrible and it’s sad to know that those with huge platforms didn’t fight back as hard as I think they should’ve with a company that didn’t care about growth within the community/IP. Just the growth within their own pockets. It’s definitely a bridge that has been burned, best wishes to them.
@@migglesenorito It feeds into the idea these content creators who get benefits from working with dev teams won't criticize them in good faith. This isn't the only time that this has happened in gaming. When BO4 announced there would be no campaign it caused a huge firestorm in the community because its a huge deal. Finally, imagine if they announced "Alright we can't do the PVE mode but instead we're gonna create an animated show", this way we would at least recoup the story aspect that we lost.
4. Role queue was needed because tanks are just a nicher role by design. It just straight up harder for causal players to understand what they do, and how they are making an impact. Also only having 1 tank in a game despite feeling balanced is what leads a lot of people to not like tank. The worse part is main tank is underplayed
@@paulakroy2635 With that mindset though you’re placing casual players into a forced role that, as you said, is hard to understand when it comes to the impact you’re making due to design. Keep in mind that the dev team they’re all referencing only catered to high elo and pro players. They continuously balanced heroes over and over, nerfed, buffed, etc. How do you think casual players must of felt way down in the low elo’s getting yelled at for getting “GG Tank Diffed” with all these changes being made and they have no clue why. Marvel Rivals’ ban system removes that entirely (I agree that hero bans should be implemented in all elo’s) which allows small tweaks for balancing purposes, yet still allows all out fun and loony moments (AKA FUN) throughout the gaming session. If you don’t want to solo tank you don’t have to and you can go 3 heals 3 dps, or 4 dps 2 heals. And guess what? Due to the fact that no heroes are nerfed to the ground bc of high elo players abusing them, those comps are actually viable of the low elo players know what they’re doing. And you know what’s even better? If they don’t know what they’re doing, at least they’re allowed time and freedom to learn due to lack of role queue. Respectfully disagree with you bud, Freedo was right. Role Queue ruined that game and they lost their minds with 5v5. It definitely wasn’t needed, they just had to listen to the community.
It's crazy that paladins is never in these podcast spaces for hero shooters, paladins struggled to crawl so overwatch 2 and marvel rivals could run in terms of game mechanics and balancing, paladins had out of combat healing which most people love in overwatch 2 and want in marvel rivals and paladins also had character bans in ranked for ALL ranks for ages
Paladins was fun, but man if Rivals is clunky, then Paladins is in the clunky dimension. Every Champion had an ability that felt awful, and there were so many heroes that were designed for easy value. The sound design was bad. The artstyle was bad. The hitboxes were bad. And let's not forget Hero kit design. Compare the designs of Ying (One of my Paladins mains) to Loki. Loki has much more depth and skill expression. And the crazy thing is I don't even main Loki, that's just how much higher the bar is in Hero kit designs for Marvel than what Paladins and Overwatch had. I have hundreds of hours in Paladins, I don't think it was bad. But I also don't think it was unfairly overlooked.
As much as like spilo, my guy just doesnt know what he is talking about. Hulk and thor are probably the most fun dive/bruiser tanks in marvel, which can actually go in and be lethal and can get out. The other dive tank is venom who has long cooldowns and can be cc and melted before leaping. Captain is fun but he just does baby dmg so he cant disrupt as well as thor and hulk. If anything, strange and mag are boring heroes cause they’re basic sheild tanks.
I find strange fun bc I can mix in my shield or melee into my m1 combos, deciding if I want to deal more damage or be more defensive. Also his E can execute weak enemies so easily.
Completely agree I love Thor and hulk for the dive and 1v1 potential and I have like 20hrs on cap even tho he’s weak his game play loop is so fun bullying backliners with him is my new hobby with the Thor team up he’s decent even lethal at times and even for strange or magneto I get a dopamine hit from every ult blocked got me feeling like a prime shaq on defence TANKS IN RIVALS ARE FUN
Thor and hulk are fun but what he said about Thor is definitely true. Your whole gameplay kinda relays on playing around your F ability which you can’t even build with his cooldowns. So you’re incentivized to not really use his cooldowns much especially his hammer throw
Even if rivals isn’t IT for long- it made me realise that I just wasn’t having fun with overwatch anymore and was just playing it because I didn’t want my time to be wasted. I’ve played more games in the last month than I played most of 2024. Rivals is so good and I hope it’s around for a long time. It’s really fun having stuff to work towards right now (trying to get lord on all strategists!)
They are misusing the term "overkitted." The term is meant to describe heroes that are too good because they fulfill too many roles too well. Launch-day Brigitte is a great example, she was a support who was also tanking while also dueling the flankers. This is compared to a generalist, who can fulfill many roles, but makes up for it by not excelling in any role. A character like Black Panther is not overkitted, he has a lot of mechanics going on, but they all compliment his well-defined role as a melee cleaver. And let's say you have a different definition of "overkitted" in that a hero just has too much complexity. Well, I think everyone on the panel agree that the amount of abilities and ability up-times of Marvel Rivals is more engaging without being too daunting to new comers. So even with this definition, Marvel Rivals isn't overkitted, rather, Overwatch seems to be underkitted by this paradigm. So I don't really think anyone on the panel is using the term right. Marvel Rivals heroes fulfill very defined niches and have found a sweet spot for ability complexity. It's not overkitted just because abilities are powerful enough to have value.
@ agree to disagree I’ve never heard it used as a comparison tool. Hazard is overkitted but not op (in theory) because he’s got seventy abilities to compensate for them all being kinda mid
@ hazard is over kitted for sure. How would we know he is over kitted if we didn’t have kits to compare him too? Without a kit to compare it with, how would we ever know if it’s over the top? You ever hear the philosophical argument: if there was no good there would be no evil. Without something to compare A too, B cannot exist.
@ I know he’s overkitted because when I play him I often don’t have time for the spike guard ie. he has so more abilities than typically fit in his pressure cycle. The word you’re thinking of is overpowered.
I feel as tho they did make middle ground tanks tho Thor, hulk and Cap are all great in a 1v1, can dive easily and make it out alive and in terms of kits Thor especially excels he’s got options for days
I agree that hero bans should be in all ranks. The difference in the game is night and day with characters like Hela in. Yea lower ranked players aren’t very good so maybe it doesn’t matter as much but I agree that players should be able to decide what their lobbies play like. If the silver players wanna ban iron fist bc he farms them they should be able to. I also think hero bans forces ppl to become more flexible so it should be implemented early before they get to diamond playing one character that’s perma banned now they aren’t impactful
In my experience Plat 1-2 are the most annoying ranks to be in, this is where the busted stuff (Hela, Hawkeye, Hulk-Strange-Ironman combo) is at their strongest (barring any diamond plus games where the OP stuff isn't banned out). in that rank you still have to put up with getting one shot across the map by Hawkeye or being melted in 3 seconds by Iron-man and the players are competent enough to use those characters in an effective manner. Without bans there is little you can do to avoid the OP stuff.
You're talking about why sustain isn't as problematic in Rivals as it is in OW without acknowledging the fact that Duelists also have exponentially more impact and agency to compete. Rivals has more sustain but unlike OW that sustain enables proactive plays rather than overrule DPS skill expression
@@jamesmiddleton8335 Everyone should play what they find fun, simple as taht. Yau liking Overwatch is completely allowed, just as someone dislinking it.
Something I will say about marvel tanks compared to ow tanks is lethality. In ow1 if u got close to a tank, you got melted. Most of the rivals tanks lack this ability to reliably kill people by themselves. I don’t think it needs changing but people have to understand rivals tanks are not meant to be dps machines.
So true, with a few exceptions like Thor. But few things feel better than you holding back the majority of the enemy team long enough for your guys to come in and wipe them while keeping the point.
Honestly the fact that in gm I see different heroes almost every game is so fun! Almost every game hela, Hawkeye and some combo of black panther, Luna and dr strange will be banned but other than those that you don’t get to play against you see different heroes almost every game and I love that
Big addendum to the marvel characters not being the sole attraction to the game, Luna Snow is one of the most popular characters and she's not even a marvel comics character, she was created for another game. On character details one I really like in Rivals is that Jeff has a different melee animation when he's moving backwards, he swims on his back and hits with his tail.
The only thing I think I'll say about hero bans is this. I think Valve's Deadlock has the best hero selection system. You lock into one hero, and you play against others who are locked into their heroes. That way the focus is shifted from ***which*** heroes certain people are playing, and moreover to ***how*** your heroes synergize and play together. Case and point. Vindicta vs Widow. Overall Vindicta, while a sniper with a powerful hitscan kit, cannot forcibly ruin the gameplay experience for other players, because her snipe ability is limited as an ultimate ability, and even then Vindicta cannot one-shot. Whereas Widowmaker has none of these limitations AND she can one-shot. Going even further, Black Widow in Rivals - while having a nearly identical kit to Widowmaker - pales in comparison to most other heroes, because other heroes in the roster can do so much more than she can. Black Widow is outmatched simply by other heroes existing. And that in part speaks to the reason why Rivals is so successful.
The issue at high ranks is you get unplayable comps without synergy. Tournament play uses draft with picks and bans similar to League of Legends, and I imagine they will add it in-game at least in ranked.
This topic of hero bans has me wondering-how much of an impact would this simple strategy have had on reducing toxicity among Overwatch players? If those initial moments were focused on coming together to discuss who and what we wanted to ban, maybe it could have fostered more cohesion within teams thoughts?
1:32:39 tank is the least popular role in MR because a lot of players in the game are OW players. But players who who love the character of Thor, or Cap, or Venom, will play those characters no matter what out of their love for the character. They should really give the characters abilities that suits the characters. For example, Loki does more melee damage if he does it from the flank because that's who Loki is as a character and that's a good thing to add in the game!
Supports and tanks are very fun. Have you ever flanked down a support that strayed from their team as thor, have you every brought back a team fight and saved your team with a supports ultimate. Lets talk groot pulling a team in and cranking a 90 of death. Playing tank/supp, i guess sucks if you hate being a tank/supp.
in my unprofessional opinion, introducing roll lock/queue is not a good idea. if i get in a team and no one will play tank or no one will play support then we’ll lose! and if we lose we don’t climb, so naturally it will keep people who are less well rounded, who want to one trick will hit remain on their bubble and will climb slower if at all. if that makes sense
Marvel is such a clear winner, overwatch is just not fun and way more annoying in the moment to moment gameplay. It was fun years ago, now it's old and dreary
It's obviously exaggerated, but if people had to play against hela hawkeye luna mantis etc in high ranks every game, which it would be the game would probably be doing significantly worse
Overwatch is killing itself, and has been for many years. Rivals jusy brings it to the forefront. Overwatch is easky cooked unkess they really do something wild soon. *Cough* 1 season of comp 6v6 with season 9 changes reversed
As a Hawkeye main in silver tier (not been able to play much over Christmas) I would insta ban psylocke every game. I can deal with other flanker/divers but psylocke is the bane of my existence.
As for role q I think people make too much noise over nothing..I personally don't like open q but the truth is that it's better than role q for the game. I play DPS and I am not willing to play any other role so I just decided I will not play the game and problem is solved. I dont want to push my choice to anyone but also don't want others to pressure me to play something I dont want. It's simple, If you dont like open q just dont play the f***** game, otherwise you'll just ruin the experience for others and yours as well.
Gotta love Devil's Advocate debaters. "I don't agree with what i'm going to say, but i'm going to make you fight it anyways for my amusement." I understand that it might be to get ahead of arguments, I don't dislike Spilo for it, but it does make me roll my eyes.
Never knew how bad you OW players had it. seeing you guys light up like a kid seeing their favorite show speaking about haveing the ability to ban in rank is baffeling to me. Yesterday i heard that you guys old ban system was decided by a devs cat i laughed and asked for confirmation only to be told that leauge matches had the same thing. Get this your game is decided by some smuks cat, sheesh!!! 😺😸😸😹😹😹
I love rivals the most now bc of melee. I started with punisher and thought it was cool but not Ow then I started messing with Wolverine, captain, iron fist and it was so amazing. In Ow we have Rein & Brig…
Around 3:07:00 they're chatting about bans with 100+ characters....what about hero pools AND Hero bans? I know ow players aren't a fan of hero pools but could it be possible?
He wasn't saying the ability itself is bad. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding some of the arguments. Spill was saying the move works weirdly because of the charging mechanic and the arrow. He mainly was only critiquing the design behind the ability then what is actually does.
@@myles688 He also said that he doesn't play Hulk very much. Hulks jump is literally perfect. It's at the right balance of being super strong and allowing a lot of freedom, while not being bustedly broken where you can just bunnyhop-leap across the map with no cooldown. If people have issues with holding the jump button, they can simple toggle it in Hulks settings where they just have to press once to charge the jump and then press again to let it go. That way it's more of a Winston jump with a short charge but no cooldown.
I want to comment on the hero bans topic. I agree with almost everything with the hero bans. It is more reasonable and makes a game more enjoyable. Most of my concern for this is for the future. The more characters Rivals have, then the more complicated the ban system will get. I think 100% agree with HERO BANS, I just only place concern about adjustments to hero bans in the future when the game reaches large amounts of characters.
Nothing is stopping them from adjusting the system later. In fact, the Championship series uses a ban/save/ban system that ranked play doesn’t get. When they get enough characters they can just add a slot to each team to ban.
Spilo is just wrong about role queue. "How viable is triple tank or triple support" like bro thays not the only purpose of open queue. It also means i can TRADE roles, which makes a huge difference. For example i usually play tank, but one game i see magik diving and killing my backline so i swap dps to punisher and shotgun her on cooldown and we win the game. I have a 58% winrate and a third of those wins are because i swapped or filled. Rivals adding role queue would make me switch to skyrim again immediately, the same thing i was doing after the dumpster fire of ow1
42:25 terrible analogy, monopoly didn’t to their fan base and make there game pay to win and put tile lock in the game and make q times 10 min. If OW was left alone it would be better then marvel’s but they ruined there own game
At the end of the day. Marvel rivals is a way better game at almost every level. Its more fun, more competitive in the higher ranks, devs actually care and listen to the community (which is why heroes are free, community went in an uproar to tell the devs we want them free) and the character designs are amazing in Rivals. I was one of those people who thought the game would suck, but once i played it. But was i completely wrong. I love the 3rd person, actually getting to see your skins, melee and shooting characters feel great. Im so glad that so far at least, NetEase is going an amazing job. Cant wait for Fantastic 4 in season 1!
This comment will only address the pre-podcast part of this live. I understand that some of you are enjoying the playtest, but remember that is your opinion. You all need to stop trying to force your opinion over other people. When you keep asking someone basically the same question, do you even question how that makes that person feel. If you actually watched Samito's content, you would know that he has explained more than enough reasoning. In my opinion, the playtest was done terribly. Whoever said the playtest should be at the same time as MR (Marvel Rivals) release is crazy. When you have been ignoring a large part of your playerbase, especially you will not be able to beat the new game during what people call its honeymoon phase. The numbers show MR is successful and the retention is really good so the game is going to continue to grow. We keep giving these developers 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th chances that they keep throwing away. We should be giving MR a chance to show what they can do. The number one priority for any game no matter what is fun. The game should be enjoyable. I don't like it when people get mad at other people just trying to enjoy themselves by playing a game that they enjoy more. Let people play whatever they want. My opinion on the playtest is as long as you queue tank, you can stomp over everyone every single match. I play support and I was pushing people all the way to spawn point every single game playing tank. The developers need to learn to do better. and they won't learn, in my opinion, unless games like MR start overthrowing them. Ow2, in my opinion, doesn't even deserve the playerbase it has. Whether you prefer 5v5 or 6v6, are you honestly going to say that the game is in a good state even pre MR? Can you say that since its release, it has been going in the right direction. I am not speaking of direction as even just 5v5 or 6v6, I am going much further to even question if the devs can make an enjoyable game making the changes they have been making in the current format. Ask yourself right now if you had all of your knowledge erased of Overwatch and MR, what game would you be more willing to play?
"Rivals appeals to this new style where everything has to have sex appeal" ...no it just doesnt appeal to the post-gamergate millenial way of making games. It wasnt that long ago where you could play mass effect as a gigachad roaming the galaxy having sex with hot aliens, or street fighter with chun li, or dead or alive with its entire cast. Or tomb raider. I can go on and on
in ow2 I am soldier main cant get out of plat. I dont play alot but still nothing ever dies. I just hit GM3 on punisher in MR because skill expression exists
Maybe that’s bc OW is almost a decade old. Marvel rivals is new and majority of the player base is still learning the game. It’s always easier to reach high ranks in a new game. But then 3-4 years down the line you have to be a lot better as the game evolves
When you guys talk about "i played X tank and it felt miserable so I didn't do it again," id bet it was in quick play and it was with crappy healers lol solo tanks need at least 1 dedicated healer to function almost
I agree with the first point, bronze is a very different game than diamond and above. The second point, however. I believe it will split the more casual player base by having 2 separate game modes. It’s not a problem now but later down the line it might be. Perhaps a veto option pre-game to apply bans or not might help with this, like how halo used to veto maps and game modes.
@ I have to play quick play a lot because my friends are too low rank to play with me in competitive, so I want hero bans in quick play for that reason, and I would probably be trying to ban stuff I just find annoying instead of things that are op at the highest level, I do get a lot of gm players in my quick play games tho, but if you are trying to learn a hero and that hero is getting banned in quick play and competitive every game that’s not very good, so there should be a place with 0 hero bans imo
@ I get your point, it’s hard cause there’s pros and cons with everything. It’s not an issue at the moment either way since the population is so high. I’m more thinking about the future. I want to see them have a solo queue ranked and a team based ranked honestly.
I love hero bans however I don’t think you should be able to see who is on the enemy team before banning…. I hate getting target banned just because people know what I play. I think the characters being banned should be not targeted at a specific player and rather banning the characters as opposed to essentially banning a player
I think target banning against opponents is good. It gives stacks vs randoms some competitive ability to force one tricks off their safe pick. Hidden teams would just make every game ban identical.
@ not true it would have players ban what they struggle playing against… most people die to Hawkeye for example. It makes sense because Hawkeye is a noob stomper character. How do you beat Hawkeye? Don’t stand in his LOS. Play an angle where he can’t see you. People just suck at playing against him but I don’t so I would never ban him I would ban something else because I do not struggle against that character.
I have no idea what they’re talking about here lol. I watch multiple streamers that dual stream and have combined chat on screen, and they have done so for at least a year. So if for some reason it isn’t allowed, they’re doing a terrible job at cracking down on the streamers that are doing it. Hell, there are some streamers that dual stream with combined chat in screen WITH an icon next to the chatter displaying which site the messages are coming from. Weird takes from these guys today I guess.
58:32 I can see the reason why Hero Bans only apply to Diamond + bc the players are soo bad in the Low Ranks that you might have to carry your team with a Meta Hero, if you can. Soo, they want people to be able to Rank Up to the Competitive Level.
@@AnthonyBoutdavong Every competitive game has hero bans in all ranks. R6 Siege, Dota, League, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant has been talking about it.
Rivals devs don’t have to come up with characters, lore, attacks (mostly), or even skins… if anything it makes me appreciate what OW devs did even more.
SOJOURN IS SUCH AN INTERESTING CHARACTER. SO IS MOUNA MAN. AND BEAST, I MEAN, WINTON. not to mention... every tf2 character has an overwatch copy. and they basically hit select random and pull from marvel/dc to mix and match a new overwatch character and explain the powers with technology instead of magic. when i first saw overwatch, i was like, so this is a take on xmen. which was cool. but i was also a tf2 player and spotted the similarities instantly.
@@atari9477I mean, I'd call tf2 characters largely one dimensional but I don't think anyone is going to say they're not iconic if they've spent any time in gaming
Am I the only one who doesn't like this game? I genuinely think the only thing this game does better than Overwatch currently is Widow. Like I can make a list off the top of my head engine - overwatch character visual design - overwatch - not only because they look better, but also because they are easier to differentiate at distance. I was playing a match of rivals today and I guess there's a new moonknight skin out but I thought it was namor until he threw an onk at me hitboxes - overwatch - the rivals hitboxes are so arse it's insane queue time - rivals wins this one individual heroes - overwatch wins almost all of them, can any of you genuinely tell me that star lord feels better to play than tracer, punisher feels better than soldier? sustain - tie, they are genuinely just as bad as each other in terms of the ridiculous amount of healing that can be pushed out by some of these heroes visuals - Overwatch, rivals looks terrible especially when you consider the graphical resources it requires to run map design - I don't know, none of the rivals maps are bad particularly bad but I don't like the destructible environment and I particularly don't like the maps changing when you're in the middle of a fight. I do not see what is so good about this game, like seriously what am I missing??? I want to love it I really do I'm sick of playing against widowmaker
I think you're being overly harsh on a lot of these points. Rivals does NOT look bad, it has way more interesting mechanics in-game like team ups, characters have their own unique identity and feel completely different to one another, and on and on
I think there is a bit of lack of polish that games like overwatch and valorant definitely have, as well as some other gripes like the maps, however I find rivals a lot more fun than the state overwatch is at the current moment
The engine and the gameplay feel is definitely worse than Overwatch, by a lot. The thing that elevates it above OW is the abilities, hero design, etc are just more fun to use, even with the clunkiness of some of them. OW has been made so sanitary and bland for the sake of balance and esports garbage that its just uninteresting and a bore to play. No matter how good/bad the graphics, engine, etc are, gameplay and fun are king and Marvel Rivals just crushes OW in fun.
Let's just say .. yes rival feels clunky at times and some parts OW does it better. But you can't break down a game like that. A good a fun game doesn't need top graphics of engine. I'm middle age and it's been years since my whole games group is back on every night. Yes marvel isn't perfect but it's delusional to think ow is a funner or enjoyable experience. I will never go back to ow at this rate and I spent heaps in that game
I don’t see the game having a 100+ characters. The fantastic 4 fit into the remaining slots on the character select screen which makes me think they were planned with the launch of the game.
Yikes you no its not going to go well when the guy say hes a schill then starts the convo with what do you mean by cooked? OW fanboys are so visibly hurt its actually funny at this point
I reached GM in 2 days only, marvel is more fun and achievable than overwatch. for me marvel is way better than overwatch which i stopped playing since season 4 of 5 of overwatch 2. In marvel most of the characters are OP and the one who is more relaxed, focused, and fast will get the reward they want. where in overwatch i was relaxed, focused and fast but still i reached master in month or two and maybe 3 i dont remember....
Marvel Rivals is more enjoyable AND better designed characters AND hero bans in RANKED. And Rivals isn't even in season 1! You know Overwatch is cooked when the biggest content creators are enjoying Marvel Rivals more than Overwatch 2s lifetime, and Your Overwatch makes a video on why Rivals is better! Great video guys! Respect
Overwatch won’t die of they bring back shield generator symmetra!! Being back our queen of fun and everyone will come back. Please! I miss her every single day!!!!
I mean Avel and spilo have to be so clearly shills it’s insane. The game if it was launched as a new product I still don’t think would be received well Becuase it’s so imbalanced that’s why people quit imo. It’s insane that people could argue that it’s good and rivals is just goofy and hahah. Bad faith arguments and wish Sam challenged them more Becuase when he did they couldn’t come up with any counter
Guys, just cause someone has a different opinion/experience than u, doesn't mean he's a shill. We need people being honest and upfront about the state of game otherwise it'll be overwatch all over again
@ I didn't say he was a shill, I say the way they construct these arguments makes shilo and avrl sound like shills at times. Also we know for a fact that there were many overwatch shills across the years lol.
@@yosurg9 sir, thats not how I'm doing this. I see him as a shill because he only glazes and is trying so hard to push OW being good when overwhelmingly people dislike the game right now (which is why many content creators as well have moved). Had he had real critiques instead of oh its becuase people opinion is negative (same with avrl) I wouldn't had argued. For example I see and understand freedos argument for 5v5 and in paper it sounds better. I just disagree. Here I see their arguments as disingenuous.
As a tank main in rivals I 100% agree with spilo on tank design most of them are so unnecessarily clunky and the ones who aren’t (Cap and venom) just don’t have impactful kits. hulk and Cap are my favorite tanks and cap specifically just feels like he’s missing a vital part of his kit without Thor Team up. Also tank cool downs are WAY TOO LONG, why can peni Parker CC every 4 seconds but I have to wait 10 seconds to throw cap shield? Like the tank power fantasy just doesn’t exist in this game compared to how they’ve executed the Characters in the DPS role.
Cap is the odd man out, honestly. He plays more like a dps imo. It's not uncommon for both tanks to put out the most dps overall, I see it often. Peni is good in certain situations, but ultimately, she's a bullet sponge and a drain on healer resources. Strange is a straight menace. Tanks seem to be in a decent place imo.
I feel like they should have sub-categories of heroes, like harasser, flanker, wall, combo, sniper, brawler etc. and each character can have multiple sub categories. E.G, Hawkeye-Duelist Sniper/Flanker. Thor-Vanguard Brawler/Diver/Harasser
I know you do not like Widow and I see your points somewhat at your level, BUT in no World is it right to Insult all Players for liking and maining her or any other hero. I aim willing to hear what you say, and again I somewhat see your points but with insulting me and any other player who likes to play Widow, even if its bronze or QP you lost me and invalidated your points. Think more about what you say and take the emotion out of your arguments.
Marvel rivals is not overwatvh influential. It’s a free to play marvel hero shooter, yes it’s popular as fuck, YES it’s good, yes there’s some critical acclaim. Will it be game of the year? No. Will it change gaming as whole? No. Will it create a whole New category of p0 rn? No. Will it have original memes and characters that people talk about for months? No. Will the hype die down? Yes. People will always play it, but the second they have to balance it? GG rivals is COOKED.
Can’t wait for season 15 when all the content creators and people that “left” come crawling back. Overwatch was able to stomp on the dead game allegations with all the 6v6 content dropping. Next season is going to be the accumulation of everything they’ve learned this past year and I can’t wait to see it.
XD you guys are actually debating which one is better this is so fucking cute lmfao Your game is dead. Let me be your final last words for overwatch. ITS OVER. Start switching and getting with times before you get left behind.
There is no debate. Overwatch has dominated the genre for 8 years. Marvels is still in it's honeymoon phase. Without a lot of improvements, Rivals will remain a glorified party game.
@@jorochimaruno it hasnt, the game still has to earn its place. theres no you genuinely think it has when the game is poorly optimized even on console. the fucking game cant even work correctly at lower fps, yes even 60fps is affected. 30 fps yea sure, you have an ass pc but 60 assures nearly every console player has a worse experience. balance of the game is surprisingly fine, even the broken characters are manageable. we have absolutely no gamemodes, only 2 types and 8 maps is absolutely nothing. some heroes feel bad to play, a few have awful clips. the feel isn’t anything close to the polish overwatch had. you have no idea what you’re talking about, you dont play this genre seriously. you’re just another marvel fanboy yelling their poorly made opinion like they always do
1:47:45 This concept has been completely abandoned by the Overwatch 2 team. They are constantly caricaturing their characters as of late and even straight up just using OG's as punching bags to make new characters look "cooler" by having the OG characters act out of character/do things they would concretely never do based on the years of story building that proves it. If you don't believe me, then I'll simply direct you to the Hanzo emote where he licks his hand like a cat.
spilo ded ass i legit despise the overwstch commuinity from devs, player base and ho ass content creators. i hope ow nevef fails and you guys can play forever and not move to thr next game and fuck it up too.
Podcast starts at 30:14
Thanks
goat
The goat
Ty
I wasn’t 100% understanding the point of “It’s not that you guys care about PVE, you’re just hurt about the broken promise”.
Maybe it might just be me, but I cared about the PVE. The only reason as to why I settled was bc the developers themselves called it quits, made no future plans and there was nothing else in the hero shooter genre that was as entertaining as OW. We observably saw what the Devs were prioritizing when it came to OW and no one from the community that had a huge platform was speaking on it, so our voices were diminished. We could cry on Twitter all we want, but for what?
That’s about it though, everything else was extremely on point. That comment just didn’t make sense to me, I did care. I did want an actual PART 2 to a game that was once amazing in my eyes. Oh well.
While I don't care about PvE, I do care about integrity of a company. If they can't uphold their promises, then I can't trust them on things I do care about. I too don't understand their point, is the implication that broken promises don't matter? If that's their point, that's a really pathetic anti-consumer mindset.
@@iminumst7827I guess the implication is that the current ow2 dev team just straight up is a mostly different team than the ones who made those decisions, and they are just dealing with the fallout
Yea unfortunately these high rank guys just dont understand why we wanted the pve. they have bitterness towards it as the thing that “ruined” the game but it wasnt. the teams poor management and just unfortunate circumstances ruined the pve. its from negligence, but it also an unfortunate tragedy for a game with so much potential. we lost something that could have been a powerhouse in the gaming community. now we’re left with just another half baked live service game. nothing that inspires inspiration like the original overwatch did.
its a difference between people who love overwatch, and people who love gaming in general. i didnt want more overwatch, i wanted something much more. i want devs to build on something, to evolve their games into something much more. ow2 is more of the same
OW2 saying they would have added Pve made me interested in the game for the first time since lauvh only for it to be a big flook and i uninstalled
the promise of PVE is pretty much the only thing aside from lucio that kept me playing overwatch in the “dead years”.
Couple points I disagreed with:
1. Spilo's rants against tank designs, specifically Hulk and Thor. I think Hulk and Thor are some of the most fun tanks ever designed between the 2 games. He talked about Thor's cooldowns feeling clunky but as a Thor onetrick in GM, I find it really satisfying how I can make use of each of his abilities to constantly have output. Also, he said something along the lines of "Is Hulk jump that good/even that important" ummm yes. Without Hulk Jump, he would just slowly walk at you as you slowly walk away.
2. AVRL's point about Overwatch 2's PR and the PVE were terrible points. "You guys didn't care about the PVE" ummm where'd you get that from? Overwatch always had such a cool backstory that people were really interested in and we wanted to see more cinematics and have more backstory and when they made the decision to make Overwatch 2 and abandon Overwatch 1 it was in the name of fleshing out the story and giving an incredibly unique PVE that supposedly be replayable with different skill trees. So it isn't just that a promise was broken, but also that we lost content for years for content that ultimately was shut down and we also lost all of that story that would have gone along with it.
3. I think a minor point I didn't agree with was the discussion of how many more heroes that are recognizable are they gonna be able to add. Well off the top of my head there is: Deadpool, Ultron, Dark Phoenix, Quicksilver, Sandman, Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Ant-Man, Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer, Daredevil, Vision, Blade, Mysterio.
4. Role queue. Oh brother. Why are we doing this? Have we learned nothing? The reason we needed Role Queue in overwatch 1 & 2 was because the game balance was so out of wack that playing tank was either boring or miserable. The simple solution to this is focus the next hero releases on fun and innovate tanks as well as making sure that the problems (AOE sustain) that created horrible metas (GOATs) don't occur in this game. This game is new and fun so lets pump the brakes on role queue and focus on making a good game. 1-3-2, 2-2-2, 3-0-3, 1-2-3 can all be situationally fun comps and unless the situation arises where games are consistently being lost with 4-6 duelists and 0-1 tanks/supports, lets just wait and see what happens.
Edit: For the talk about hero bans, I think it should be in every rank. That's how it works in R6 Siege, Dota, League and many other games. Samito had a great point about how the top 4% shouldn't be the only ones to customize their experience. I say this as someone who plays tank in Diamond and saw how brutal climbing out of plat was.
Brilliantly said
Point 2 as I stated in my comment was definitely my main ick. Aren’t broken promises and the lack of PVE intertwined? If we’re upset with the broken promise ofc we’re upset about what the promise was about (PVE). Such a nonsensical comment to make imo. It literally contradicts itself. If his point was “you guys would still be talking about it, you didn’t bring it up with MR!”.
Like my man…everyone hates this comment (including me), but it applies here…it’s a game. Aka, one can only complain so much before they inevitably settle or move on. Regardless, his take was absolutely terrible and it’s sad to know that those with huge platforms didn’t fight back as hard as I think they should’ve with a company that didn’t care about growth within the community/IP. Just the growth within their own pockets. It’s definitely a bridge that has been burned, best wishes to them.
@@migglesenorito It feeds into the idea these content creators who get benefits from working with dev teams won't criticize them in good faith. This isn't the only time that this has happened in gaming. When BO4 announced there would be no campaign it caused a huge firestorm in the community because its a huge deal. Finally, imagine if they announced "Alright we can't do the PVE mode but instead we're gonna create an animated show", this way we would at least recoup the story aspect that we lost.
4. Role queue was needed because tanks are just a nicher role by design. It just straight up harder for causal players to understand what they do, and how they are making an impact. Also only having 1 tank in a game despite feeling balanced is what leads a lot of people to not like tank. The worse part is main tank is underplayed
@@paulakroy2635 With that mindset though you’re placing casual players into a forced role that, as you said, is hard to understand when it comes to the impact you’re making due to design. Keep in mind that the dev team they’re all referencing only catered to high elo and pro players. They continuously balanced heroes over and over, nerfed, buffed, etc. How do you think casual players must of felt way down in the low elo’s getting yelled at for getting “GG Tank Diffed” with all these changes being made and they have no clue why.
Marvel Rivals’ ban system removes that entirely (I agree that hero bans should be implemented in all elo’s) which allows small tweaks for balancing purposes, yet still allows all out fun and loony moments (AKA FUN) throughout the gaming session.
If you don’t want to solo tank you don’t have to and you can go 3 heals 3 dps, or 4 dps 2 heals. And guess what? Due to the fact that no heroes are nerfed to the ground bc of high elo players abusing them, those comps are actually viable of the low elo players know what they’re doing. And you know what’s even better? If they don’t know what they’re doing, at least they’re allowed time and freedom to learn due to lack of role queue.
Respectfully disagree with you bud, Freedo was right. Role Queue ruined that game and they lost their minds with 5v5. It definitely wasn’t needed, they just had to listen to the community.
It's crazy that paladins is never in these podcast spaces for hero shooters, paladins struggled to crawl so overwatch 2 and marvel rivals could run in terms of game mechanics and balancing, paladins had out of combat healing which most people love in overwatch 2 and want in marvel rivals and paladins also had character bans in ranked for ALL ranks for ages
It’s not crazy. Paladins sucks balls. Plants vs zombies is more competitive
Paladins was fun, but man if Rivals is clunky, then Paladins is in the clunky dimension. Every Champion had an ability that felt awful, and there were so many heroes that were designed for easy value. The sound design was bad. The artstyle was bad. The hitboxes were bad.
And let's not forget Hero kit design. Compare the designs of Ying (One of my Paladins mains) to Loki. Loki has much more depth and skill expression. And the crazy thing is I don't even main Loki, that's just how much higher the bar is in Hero kit designs for Marvel than what Paladins and Overwatch had.
I have hundreds of hours in Paladins, I don't think it was bad. But I also don't think it was unfairly overlooked.
League of Legends is more relevant to hero shooters than Paladins lol
@@JamesDean-j7wgarden warfare is peak gaming
Saying healing out of combat or bans is from paladins when both are much older concepts and pretty obvious concepts for a long time
As much as like spilo, my guy just doesnt know what he is talking about. Hulk and thor are probably the most fun dive/bruiser tanks in marvel, which can actually go in and be lethal and can get out. The other dive tank is venom who has long cooldowns and can be cc and melted before leaping. Captain is fun but he just does baby dmg so he cant disrupt as well as thor and hulk. If anything, strange and mag are boring heroes cause they’re basic sheild tanks.
I have 2shorts of thor on my page that just shows hes cooldowns are not an issue and if you play well u can live and bully anyone
Lets face it ow tanks are not even close to as fun as the tanks in marvel, which is why no one wanted to play tank and why went through the 2-2-2
I find strange fun bc I can mix in my shield or melee into my m1 combos, deciding if I want to deal more damage or be more defensive. Also his E can execute weak enemies so easily.
Completely agree I love Thor and hulk for the dive and 1v1 potential and I have like 20hrs on cap even tho he’s weak his game play loop is so fun bullying backliners with him is my new hobby with the Thor team up he’s decent even lethal at times and even for strange or magneto I get a dopamine hit from every ult blocked got me feeling like a prime shaq on defence
TANKS IN RIVALS ARE FUN
Thor and hulk are fun but what he said about Thor is definitely true. Your whole gameplay kinda relays on playing around your F ability which you can’t even build with his cooldowns.
So you’re incentivized to not really use his cooldowns much especially his hammer throw
Marvel does have a bastion and its punisher, and they balanced it PERFECTLY (his turret form)
i love how its NOT hitscan and its timed, and is stationary. Not "go into sentry mode whenever the hell you want" or move around in it
Even if rivals isn’t IT for long- it made me realise that I just wasn’t having fun with overwatch anymore and was just playing it because I didn’t want my time to be wasted. I’ve played more games in the last month than I played most of 2024. Rivals is so good and I hope it’s around for a long time. It’s really fun having stuff to work towards right now (trying to get lord on all strategists!)
They are misusing the term "overkitted." The term is meant to describe heroes that are too good because they fulfill too many roles too well. Launch-day Brigitte is a great example, she was a support who was also tanking while also dueling the flankers. This is compared to a generalist, who can fulfill many roles, but makes up for it by not excelling in any role. A character like Black Panther is not overkitted, he has a lot of mechanics going on, but they all compliment his well-defined role as a melee cleaver.
And let's say you have a different definition of "overkitted" in that a hero just has too much complexity. Well, I think everyone on the panel agree that the amount of abilities and ability up-times of Marvel Rivals is more engaging without being too daunting to new comers. So even with this definition, Marvel Rivals isn't overkitted, rather, Overwatch seems to be underkitted by this paradigm.
So I don't really think anyone on the panel is using the term right. Marvel Rivals heroes fulfill very defined niches and have found a sweet spot for ability complexity. It's not overkitted just because abilities are powerful enough to have value.
Overkitted just means they have more in their kit than necessary to do their pressure cycle
@@ecclecticsayonce5131I don’t think so. Over kitted is a comparison between hero A and hero B. Often compared within the same role or type of hero.
@ agree to disagree I’ve never heard it used as a comparison tool. Hazard is overkitted but not op (in theory) because he’s got seventy abilities to compensate for them all being kinda mid
@ hazard is over kitted for sure. How would we know he is over kitted if we didn’t have kits to compare him too? Without a kit to compare it with, how would we ever know if it’s over the top?
You ever hear the philosophical argument: if there was no good there would be no evil. Without something to compare A too, B cannot exist.
@ I know he’s overkitted because when I play him I often don’t have time for the spike guard ie. he has so more abilities than typically fit in his pressure cycle. The word you’re thinking of is overpowered.
30:15 start of debate
Tank kits are actually fun, but more of an acquired taste, whereas DPS kits are more immediately fun.
I feel as tho they did make middle ground tanks tho Thor, hulk and Cap are all great in a 1v1, can dive easily and make it out alive and in terms of kits Thor especially excels he’s got options for days
Yeah they definitely had a L take (other than my boi samito) with the tank take. The tanks are an absolute joy to play
Imagine thinking strange has as much damage as sigma. Sigma had a one shot combo while having a shield in front of him.
Sigma has an on demand ranged one shot combo while strange has to build charge and get close. Ow tanks are way more lethal compared to rivals.
The only reason why i gave Marvel Rivals a shot is because of broken Hazard meta in OW right now, bans are definitely desperately needed.
I agree that hero bans should be in all ranks. The difference in the game is night and day with characters like Hela in. Yea lower ranked players aren’t very good so maybe it doesn’t matter as much but I agree that players should be able to decide what their lobbies play like. If the silver players wanna ban iron fist bc he farms them they should be able to. I also think hero bans forces ppl to become more flexible so it should be implemented early before they get to diamond playing one character that’s perma banned now they aren’t impactful
In my experience Plat 1-2 are the most annoying ranks to be in, this is where the busted stuff (Hela, Hawkeye, Hulk-Strange-Ironman combo) is at their strongest (barring any diamond plus games where the OP stuff isn't banned out). in that rank you still have to put up with getting one shot across the map by Hawkeye or being melted in 3 seconds by Iron-man and the players are competent enough to use those characters in an effective manner. Without bans there is little you can do to avoid the OP stuff.
@@morningshade2347 Yeah, Platinum is just the sweetspot where trying to rank up fucking sucks unless you're using the OP stuff yourself.
You're talking about why sustain isn't as problematic in Rivals as it is in OW without acknowledging the fact that Duelists also have exponentially more impact and agency to compete. Rivals has more sustain but unlike OW that sustain enables proactive plays rather than overrule DPS skill expression
Amazing discussion Sam! Gotta love these debates! 💯
Overwatch is dead. Long live the king.
I'm gonna keep playing Overwatch... I straight up don't find this game fun I wish I did
@@jamesmiddleton8335 Marvel Rivals is more fun if you have friends.
@@jamesmiddleton8335 totally fair.
@@jamesmiddleton8335 Everyone should play what they find fun, simple as taht. Yau liking Overwatch is completely allowed, just as someone dislinking it.
Let's face it, Chutes and Ladders will be the Monopoly killer
Something I will say about marvel tanks compared to ow tanks is lethality. In ow1 if u got close to a tank, you got melted. Most of the rivals tanks lack this ability to reliably kill people by themselves. I don’t think it needs changing but people have to understand rivals tanks are not meant to be dps machines.
So true, with a few exceptions like Thor. But few things feel better than you holding back the majority of the enemy team long enough for your guys to come in and wipe them while keeping the point.
3:07:11 LoL has over 150 characters and 5 bans per team so why would this ever happen?
Yea these guys think they know so much but tend to be blind to the obvious
I don’t like bottom right guy…his takes are…yea
Also top left but I respect trying to be skeptical and Devil advocate but bro it’s good stop teaching and change what good especially in the beginning
loved the podcast, one thing i wanna state is the devs ruled out role queue and its for a good reason.
Honestly the fact that in gm I see different heroes almost every game is so fun! Almost every game hela, Hawkeye and some combo of black panther, Luna and dr strange will be banned but other than those that you don’t get to play against you see different heroes almost every game and I love that
Poor AVRL still catching heat for taking up the 5v5 argument all that time ago lol.
Big addendum to the marvel characters not being the sole attraction to the game, Luna Snow is one of the most popular characters and she's not even a marvel comics character, she was created for another game.
On character details one I really like in Rivals is that Jeff has a different melee animation when he's moving backwards, he swims on his back and hits with his tail.
The only thing I think I'll say about hero bans is this. I think Valve's Deadlock has the best hero selection system. You lock into one hero, and you play against others who are locked into their heroes. That way the focus is shifted from ***which*** heroes certain people are playing, and moreover to ***how*** your heroes synergize and play together.
Case and point. Vindicta vs Widow. Overall Vindicta, while a sniper with a powerful hitscan kit, cannot forcibly ruin the gameplay experience for other players, because her snipe ability is limited as an ultimate ability, and even then Vindicta cannot one-shot. Whereas Widowmaker has none of these limitations AND she can one-shot.
Going even further, Black Widow in Rivals - while having a nearly identical kit to Widowmaker - pales in comparison to most other heroes, because other heroes in the roster can do so much more than she can. Black Widow is outmatched simply by other heroes existing. And that in part speaks to the reason why Rivals is so successful.
The issue at high ranks is you get unplayable comps without synergy. Tournament play uses draft with picks and bans similar to League of Legends, and I imagine they will add it in-game at least in ranked.
This topic of hero bans has me wondering-how much of an impact would this simple strategy have had on reducing toxicity among Overwatch players? If those initial moments were focused on coming together to discuss who and what we wanted to ban, maybe it could have fostered more cohesion within teams thoughts?
I’ve played 40 hours, and I’ve only had 2 6 dps games, and we won both times, I normally do flex if needed tho
1:32:39 tank is the least popular role in MR because a lot of players in the game are OW players. But players who who love the character of Thor, or Cap, or Venom, will play those characters no matter what out of their love for the character. They should really give the characters abilities that suits the characters. For example, Loki does more melee damage if he does it from the flank because that's who Loki is as a character and that's a good thing to add in the game!
Supports and tanks are very fun. Have you ever flanked down a support that strayed from their team as thor, have you every brought back a team fight and saved your team with a supports ultimate. Lets talk groot pulling a team in and cranking a 90 of death. Playing tank/supp, i guess sucks if you hate being a tank/supp.
in my unprofessional opinion, introducing roll lock/queue is not a good idea. if i get in a team and no one will play tank or no one will play support then we’ll lose! and if we lose we don’t climb, so naturally it will keep people who are less well rounded, who want to one trick will hit remain on their bubble and will climb slower if at all. if that makes sense
Marvel is such a clear winner, overwatch is just not fun and way more annoying in the moment to moment gameplay. It was fun years ago, now it's old and dreary
ow cant die even with terrible balance but marvel could die just by not implementing bans ? shillo are u ok ?
Bro shilling hard
are people waking up to the fact that spilo has god awful takes and will stop omega glazing him about everything he does?
@ he has good takes and he has bad takes, the tank comments he made of rivals was particularly bad
It's obviously exaggerated, but if people had to play against hela hawkeye luna mantis etc in high ranks every game, which it would be the game would probably be doing significantly worse
Overwatch is killing itself, and has been for many years. Rivals jusy brings it to the forefront. Overwatch is easky cooked unkess they really do something wild soon.
*Cough* 1 season of comp 6v6 with season 9 changes reversed
As a Hawkeye main in silver tier (not been able to play much over Christmas) I would insta ban psylocke every game. I can deal with other flanker/divers but psylocke is the bane of my existence.
How about saying something is 'Cooked' (as in ready to eat) how about call Overwatch just Over.
As for role q I think people make too much noise over nothing..I personally don't like open q but the truth is that it's better than role q for the game. I play DPS and I am not willing to play any other role so I just decided I will not play the game and problem is solved. I dont want to push my choice to anyone but also don't want others to pressure me to play something I dont want. It's simple, If you dont like open q just dont play the f***** game, otherwise you'll just ruin the experience for others and yours as well.
Gotta love Devil's Advocate debaters. "I don't agree with what i'm going to say, but i'm going to make you fight it anyways for my amusement."
I understand that it might be to get ahead of arguments, I don't dislike Spilo for it, but it does make me roll my eyes.
Never knew how bad you OW players had it. seeing you guys light up like a kid seeing their favorite show speaking about haveing the ability to ban in rank is baffeling to me. Yesterday i heard that you guys old ban system was decided by a devs cat i laughed and asked for confirmation only to be told that leauge matches had the same thing. Get this your game is decided by some smuks cat, sheesh!!! 😺😸😸😹😹😹
sam is an actual genius
I love rivals the most now bc of melee. I started with punisher and thought it was cool but not Ow then I started messing with Wolverine, captain, iron fist and it was so amazing. In Ow we have Rein & Brig…
Around 3:07:00 they're chatting about bans with 100+ characters....what about hero pools AND Hero bans? I know ow players aren't a fan of hero pools but could it be possible?
Did this guy just say hulk jump feels bad? Skill issue
He wasn't saying the ability itself is bad. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding some of the arguments. Spill was saying the move works weirdly because of the charging mechanic and the arrow. He mainly was only critiquing the design behind the ability then what is actually does.
@@myles688 He also said that he doesn't play Hulk very much. Hulks jump is literally perfect. It's at the right balance of being super strong and allowing a lot of freedom, while not being bustedly broken where you can just bunnyhop-leap across the map with no cooldown. If people have issues with holding the jump button, they can simple toggle it in Hulks settings where they just have to press once to charge the jump and then press again to let it go. That way it's more of a Winston jump with a short charge but no cooldown.
I can’t lie i hate hulk jump. I disagree with spilo on a lot but holding space the entire match feels awful and the alternative feels slow and clunky
@@DDog09there’s literally a setting to make it so you don’t hold lmao
@ and like i said thats slow and clunky too lmao
I want to comment on the hero bans topic. I agree with almost everything with the hero bans. It is more reasonable and makes a game more enjoyable. Most of my concern for this is for the future. The more characters Rivals have, then the more complicated the ban system will get. I think 100% agree with HERO BANS, I just only place concern about adjustments to hero bans in the future when the game reaches large amounts of characters.
Nothing is stopping them from adjusting the system later. In fact, the Championship series uses a ban/save/ban system that ranked play doesn’t get. When they get enough characters they can just add a slot to each team to ban.
Spilo is just wrong about role queue. "How viable is triple tank or triple support" like bro thays not the only purpose of open queue. It also means i can TRADE roles, which makes a huge difference. For example i usually play tank, but one game i see magik diving and killing my backline so i swap dps to punisher and shotgun her on cooldown and we win the game. I have a 58% winrate and a third of those wins are because i swapped or filled. Rivals adding role queue would make me switch to skyrim again immediately, the same thing i was doing after the dumpster fire of ow1
I feel amazing about rivals. Outside of all the nitpicking the game is fun and free to play everything
42:25 terrible analogy, monopoly didn’t to their fan base and make there game pay to win and put tile lock in the game and make q times 10 min. If OW was left alone it would be better then marvel’s but they ruined there own game
At the end of the day. Marvel rivals is a way better game at almost every level. Its more fun, more competitive in the higher ranks, devs actually care and listen to the community (which is why heroes are free, community went in an uproar to tell the devs we want them free) and the character designs are amazing in Rivals. I was one of those people who thought the game would suck, but once i played it. But was i completely wrong. I love the 3rd person, actually getting to see your skins, melee and shooting characters feel great. Im so glad that so far at least, NetEase is going an amazing job. Cant wait for Fantastic 4 in season 1!
The only people who can really say they were abused by blizzard would be genji and hanzo mains (joking ofc)
It’s not just optics. I stopped playing because it just wasn’t fun to play anymore =(
This comment will only address the pre-podcast part of this live. I understand that some of you are enjoying the playtest, but remember that is your opinion. You all need to stop trying to force your opinion over other people. When you keep asking someone basically the same question, do you even question how that makes that person feel. If you actually watched Samito's content, you would know that he has explained more than enough reasoning.
In my opinion, the playtest was done terribly. Whoever said the playtest should be at the same time as MR (Marvel Rivals) release is crazy. When you have been ignoring a large part of your playerbase, especially you will not be able to beat the new game during what people call its honeymoon phase. The numbers show MR is successful and the retention is really good so the game is going to continue to grow. We keep giving these developers 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th chances that they keep throwing away. We should be giving MR a chance to show what they can do. The number one priority for any game no matter what is fun. The game should be enjoyable. I don't like it when people get mad at other people just trying to enjoy themselves by playing a game that they enjoy more. Let people play whatever they want.
My opinion on the playtest is as long as you queue tank, you can stomp over everyone every single match. I play support and I was pushing people all the way to spawn point every single game playing tank. The developers need to learn to do better. and they won't learn, in my opinion, unless games like MR start overthrowing them. Ow2, in my opinion, doesn't even deserve the playerbase it has. Whether you prefer 5v5 or 6v6, are you honestly going to say that the game is in a good state even pre MR? Can you say that since its release, it has been going in the right direction. I am not speaking of direction as even just 5v5 or 6v6, I am going much further to even question if the devs can make an enjoyable game making the changes they have been making in the current format. Ask yourself right now if you had all of your knowledge erased of Overwatch and MR, what game would you be more willing to play?
Daggers reload is cool too
"Rivals appeals to this new style where everything has to have sex appeal"
...no it just doesnt appeal to the post-gamergate millenial way of making games. It wasnt that long ago where you could play mass effect as a gigachad roaming the galaxy having sex with hot aliens, or street fighter with chun li, or dead or alive with its entire cast. Or tomb raider. I can go on and on
in ow2 I am soldier main cant get out of plat. I dont play alot but still nothing ever dies. I just hit GM3 on punisher in MR because skill expression exists
Maybe that’s bc OW is almost a decade old. Marvel rivals is new and majority of the player base is still learning the game. It’s always easier to reach high ranks in a new game. But then 3-4 years down the line you have to be a lot better as the game evolves
When you guys talk about "i played X tank and it felt miserable so I didn't do it again," id bet it was in quick play and it was with crappy healers lol solo tanks need at least 1 dedicated healer to function almost
I think they are forget team up's is only for 1 season at a time 😂
Hero bans should be in every rank, and they should maybe try having 2 different quick plays, 1 with no bans 1 with bans
I agree with the first point, bronze is a very different game than diamond and above.
The second point, however. I believe it will split the more casual player base by having 2 separate game modes. It’s not a problem now but later down the line it might be. Perhaps a veto option pre-game to apply bans or not might help with this, like how halo used to veto maps and game modes.
@ I have to play quick play a lot because my friends are too low rank to play with me in competitive, so I want hero bans in quick play for that reason, and I would probably be trying to ban stuff I just find annoying instead of things that are op at the highest level, I do get a lot of gm players in my quick play games tho, but if you are trying to learn a hero and that hero is getting banned in quick play and competitive every game that’s not very good, so there should be a place with 0 hero bans imo
@ I get your point, it’s hard cause there’s pros and cons with everything. It’s not an issue at the moment either way since the population is so high. I’m more thinking about the future.
I want to see them have a solo queue ranked and a team based ranked honestly.
I love hero bans however I don’t think you should be able to see who is on the enemy team before banning…. I hate getting target banned just because people know what I play. I think the characters being banned should be not targeted at a specific player and rather banning the characters as opposed to essentially banning a player
I think target banning against opponents is good. It gives stacks vs randoms some competitive ability to force one tricks off their safe pick. Hidden teams would just make every game ban identical.
@ not true it would have players ban what they struggle playing against… most people die to Hawkeye for example. It makes sense because Hawkeye is a noob stomper character. How do you beat Hawkeye? Don’t stand in his LOS. Play an angle where he can’t see you. People just suck at playing against him but I don’t so I would never ban him I would ban something else because I do not struggle against that character.
They way it is adds to the community aspect imo. You learn the other competetive players and get rewarded for it
@ that’s fair. I completely disagree but I respect your pov
28:00 You're allowed to have yt chat on twitch stream, you just can't combine it into one chat with twitch for some reason.
I have no idea what they’re talking about here lol. I watch multiple streamers that dual stream and have combined chat on screen, and they have done so for at least a year. So if for some reason it isn’t allowed, they’re doing a terrible job at cracking down on the streamers that are doing it.
Hell, there are some streamers that dual stream with combined chat in screen WITH an icon next to the chatter displaying which site the messages are coming from. Weird takes from these guys today I guess.
58:32 I can see the reason why Hero Bans only apply to Diamond + bc the players are soo bad in the Low Ranks that you might have to carry your team with a Meta Hero, if you can.
Soo, they want people to be able to Rank Up to the Competitive Level.
@@AnthonyBoutdavong Every competitive game has hero bans in all ranks. R6 Siege, Dota, League, Paladins, Smite, and Valorant has been talking about it.
Not to sound like a smartass but was I the only one thinking it’s obvious this game was going to be huge af?
No debate to it: Rivals is the best by a mile
Rivals devs don’t have to come up with characters, lore, attacks (mostly), or even skins… if anything it makes me appreciate what OW devs did even more.
SOJOURN IS SUCH AN INTERESTING CHARACTER. SO IS MOUNA MAN. AND BEAST, I MEAN, WINTON. not to mention... every tf2 character has an overwatch copy. and they basically hit select random and pull from marvel/dc to mix and match a new overwatch character and explain the powers with technology instead of magic. when i first saw overwatch, i was like, so this is a take on xmen. which was cool. but i was also a tf2 player and spotted the similarities instantly.
Theyre still 1 dimensional and have acted the same for years. Tracer happy, reaper gloomy
@@atari9477I mean, I'd call tf2 characters largely one dimensional but I don't think anyone is going to say they're not iconic if they've spent any time in gaming
@@lostmycat5671 tf2 was also unique for its time, so the little character they did have was great and infectious
Having restrictions actually leads to more creativity.
Am I the only one who doesn't like this game?
I genuinely think the only thing this game does better than Overwatch currently is Widow.
Like I can make a list off the top of my head
engine - overwatch
character visual design - overwatch - not only because they look better, but also because they are easier to differentiate at distance. I was playing a match of rivals today and I guess there's a new moonknight skin out but I thought it was namor until he threw an onk at me
hitboxes - overwatch - the rivals hitboxes are so arse it's insane
queue time - rivals wins this one
individual heroes - overwatch wins almost all of them, can any of you genuinely tell me that star lord feels better to play than tracer, punisher feels better than soldier?
sustain - tie, they are genuinely just as bad as each other in terms of the ridiculous amount of healing that can be pushed out by some of these heroes
visuals - Overwatch, rivals looks terrible especially when you consider the graphical resources it requires to run
map design - I don't know, none of the rivals maps are bad particularly bad but I don't like the destructible environment and I particularly don't like the maps changing when you're in the middle of a fight.
I do not see what is so good about this game, like seriously what am I missing??? I want to love it I really do I'm sick of playing against widowmaker
I think you're being overly harsh on a lot of these points. Rivals does NOT look bad, it has way more interesting mechanics in-game like team ups, characters have their own unique identity and feel completely different to one another, and on and on
I think there is a bit of lack of polish that games like overwatch and valorant definitely have, as well as some other gripes like the maps, however I find rivals a lot more fun than the state overwatch is at the current moment
Saying marvels looks terrible is just crazy. You csn say you dislike the style, but cmon.
The engine and the gameplay feel is definitely worse than Overwatch, by a lot. The thing that elevates it above OW is the abilities, hero design, etc are just more fun to use, even with the clunkiness of some of them. OW has been made so sanitary and bland for the sake of balance and esports garbage that its just uninteresting and a bore to play. No matter how good/bad the graphics, engine, etc are, gameplay and fun are king and Marvel Rivals just crushes OW in fun.
Let's just say .. yes rival feels clunky at times and some parts OW does it better. But you can't break down a game like that. A good a fun game doesn't need top graphics of engine.
I'm middle age and it's been years since my whole games group is back on every night.
Yes marvel isn't perfect but it's delusional to think ow is a funner or enjoyable experience. I will never go back to ow at this rate and I spent heaps in that game
I don’t see the game having a 100+ characters. The fantastic 4 fit into the remaining slots on the character select screen which makes me think they were planned with the launch of the game.
Legendary reversal, let's go marvel rivals
What happens to svb? Am I missing some lore? I thought he’d instantly be on the podcast hype train not only for the 6v6 test but marvel rivals
He’s crushing his anime content atm
57:15 Freedo looks so proud lol
Spilo did excellent im so glad he fast balled the problems with the game. Like how the hell did the game launch with moise acceleration always on
Yikes you no its not going to go well when the guy say hes a schill then starts the convo with what do you mean by cooked? OW fanboys are so visibly hurt its actually funny at this point
never add role queue
I don't like OW2 and MW. What else should I dislike?
Women
@DanielAnderssson Understandable
Hela stomps in low and high ranks so i think shed get banned across all ranks
I reached GM in 2 days only, marvel is more fun and achievable than overwatch. for me marvel is way better than overwatch which i stopped playing since season 4 of 5 of overwatch 2. In marvel most of the characters are OP and the one who is more relaxed, focused, and fast will get the reward they want. where in overwatch i was relaxed, focused and fast but still i reached master in month or two and maybe 3 i dont remember....
Also tanks in marvel are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun than overwatch where you feel your self useless most of the time
2:54:26 another shit take from avrl
Marvel Rivals is more enjoyable AND better designed characters AND hero bans in RANKED. And Rivals isn't even in season 1! You know Overwatch is cooked when the biggest content creators are enjoying Marvel Rivals more than Overwatch 2s lifetime, and Your Overwatch makes a video on why Rivals is better! Great video guys! Respect
Overwatch won’t die of they bring back shield generator symmetra!! Being back our queen of fun and everyone will come back. Please! I miss her every single day!!!!
Different heroes are op at different ranks! Let each rank curate their experiences!!!
I mean Avel and spilo have to be so clearly shills it’s insane. The game if it was launched as a new product I still don’t think would be received well Becuase it’s so imbalanced that’s why people quit imo. It’s insane that people could argue that it’s good and rivals is just goofy and hahah. Bad faith arguments and wish Sam challenged them more Becuase when he did they couldn’t come up with any counter
When Shilo said that Hulk jump was bad/not useful and that Thor wasn't fun to play I knew I was in for a long podcast.
Guys, just cause someone has a different opinion/experience than u, doesn't mean he's a shill. We need people being honest and upfront about the state of game otherwise it'll be overwatch all over again
@ I didn't say he was a shill, I say the way they construct these arguments makes shilo and avrl sound like shills at times. Also we know for a fact that there were many overwatch shills across the years lol.
@@L3E._-0 Thats how I felt as well, I knew instantly when he started talking without fully understanding how these characters work.....
@@yosurg9 sir, thats not how I'm doing this. I see him as a shill because he only glazes and is trying so hard to push OW being good when overwhelmingly people dislike the game right now (which is why many content creators as well have moved). Had he had real critiques instead of oh its becuase people opinion is negative (same with avrl) I wouldn't had argued. For example I see and understand freedos argument for 5v5 and in paper it sounds better. I just disagree. Here I see their arguments as disingenuous.
2:04:12 avrl just yappin for honor is 3rd person and hitting someone with reins hammer feels incredible stfu
True. I’ve played hundreds of hours of FH and the melee feels amazing. Rein used to be my go to tank as well.
@ fucking exactly
As a tank main in rivals I 100% agree with spilo on tank design most of them are so unnecessarily clunky and the ones who aren’t (Cap and venom) just don’t have impactful kits. hulk and Cap are my favorite tanks and cap specifically just feels like he’s missing a vital part of his kit without Thor Team up. Also tank cool downs are WAY TOO LONG, why can peni Parker CC every 4 seconds but I have to wait 10 seconds to throw cap shield? Like the tank power fantasy just doesn’t exist in this game compared to how they’ve executed the Characters in the DPS role.
Cap is the odd man out, honestly. He plays more like a dps imo. It's not uncommon for both tanks to put out the most dps overall, I see it often. Peni is good in certain situations, but ultimately, she's a bullet sponge and a drain on healer resources. Strange is a straight menace. Tanks seem to be in a decent place imo.
Ima be real MR addict here and cap does need some.help on cooldowns, raising the shield should not have a cd.
I feel like they should have sub-categories of heroes, like harasser, flanker, wall, combo, sniper, brawler etc. and each character can have multiple sub categories. E.G, Hawkeye-Duelist Sniper/Flanker. Thor-Vanguard Brawler/Diver/Harasser
You don't need a tank to win in marvel rivals
just do 3 max 1 min
For me, it's paladins
the problem is the dev have a duelist problem i mean they are releasing as much as 2 duelist again and 1 vanguard and 1 strategist
Maybe if role queue were a thing. But it’s not. Just play the hero’s you like
“Still uses overwatch as background”
AVRL talked waayy too much 👎
Freedo being here is incredibly bad. Not once has he had a good opinion. Watching through his yapping is excruciating.
any counter arguments to why his bad and or what opinions you thought was not acceptable on why he not be here? thanks for your 2 cents
I know you do not like Widow and I see your points somewhat at your level, BUT in no World is it right to Insult all Players for liking and maining her or any other hero. I aim willing to hear what you say, and again I somewhat see your points but with insulting me and any other player who likes to play Widow, even if its bronze or QP you lost me and invalidated your points. Think more about what you say and take the emotion out of your arguments.
Cringe cope
Marvel rivals is not overwatvh influential. It’s a free to play marvel hero shooter, yes it’s popular as fuck, YES it’s good, yes there’s some critical acclaim. Will it be game of the year? No. Will it change gaming as whole? No. Will it create a whole
New category of p0 rn? No. Will it have original memes and characters that people talk about for months? No. Will the hype die down? Yes. People will always play it, but the second they have to balance it? GG rivals is COOKED.
Mangirl lmfao
marvel will die in one year
Can’t wait for season 15 when all the content creators and people that “left” come crawling back. Overwatch was able to stomp on the dead game allegations with all the 6v6 content dropping. Next season is going to be the accumulation of everything they’ve learned this past year and I can’t wait to see it.
Barely anyone is covering the 6v6 playtest lmao
@@AnimeOtaku56. all my friends played for 8 years and I can’t assure you the vast majority will never be back
XD you guys are actually debating which one is better this is so fucking cute lmfao Your game is dead. Let me be your final last words for overwatch. ITS OVER. Start switching and getting with times before you get left behind.
Who the fck r u... Looser 😂😂
There is no debate. Overwatch has dominated the genre for 8 years. Marvels is still in it's honeymoon phase. Without a lot of improvements, Rivals will remain a glorified party game.
Rivals have already exceeded anything OW2 will ever do. OW is dead. It only lasted so long because no other game contested it
@@jorochimaruno it hasnt, the game still has to earn its place. theres no you genuinely think it has when the game is poorly optimized even on console. the fucking game cant even work correctly at lower fps, yes even 60fps is affected. 30 fps yea sure, you have an ass pc but 60 assures nearly every console player has a worse experience.
balance of the game is surprisingly fine, even the broken characters are manageable.
we have absolutely no gamemodes, only 2 types and 8 maps is absolutely nothing. some heroes feel bad to play, a few have awful clips. the feel isn’t anything close to the polish overwatch had.
you have no idea what you’re talking about, you dont play this genre seriously. you’re just another marvel fanboy yelling their poorly made opinion like they always do
@jorochimaru are you high? Apex and Valorant have huge followings and have tried to compete with OW for years 😂
Apex and valorant arent even in the same genre and both are bigger than ow
@h.n7691 if Apex and Valorant aren't in the same genre then neither is Rivals lmao
Love it when video game nerds crossover with board game nerds ❤
1:47:45 This concept has been completely abandoned by the Overwatch 2 team. They are constantly caricaturing their characters as of late and even straight up just using OG's as punching bags to make new characters look "cooler" by having the OG characters act out of character/do things they would concretely never do based on the years of story building that proves it.
If you don't believe me, then I'll simply direct you to the Hanzo emote where he licks his hand like a cat.
spilo ded ass i legit despise the overwstch commuinity from devs, player base and ho ass content creators. i hope ow nevef fails and you guys can play forever and not move to thr next game and fuck it up too.
Can’t watch Avrl. Pathetic and rotund
what does he even do now a days? hell what did he do back in the day to become relevant for blizz