I've always thought of this notation system in the same way I see guitar tab. I spent over 10 years playing cello, I've also studied three semesters of music theory in college. But when I first picked up the guitar in freshman year of college, I still used tablature. It let me quickly pick up things things and play the songs I wanted quickly. But ultimately, tab held me back when I began studying jazz a few years later. I felt like I didn't actually have a robust connection with my instrument. I hadn't really built up an understanding of how harmony and melody intersected/worked on my instrument and I also was half assing the rhythms (until I discovered songsterr, etc.) A few caveats with this comparison to guitar tab... Guitar tab is hard to connect with chordal information but I think this "piano tab" is slightly better in this regard. At least you can sort of judge by the spacing of the notes and guess the chord/voicing. (Definetly no where near the usefulness of standard notation though). But secondly, I think guitar is much more challenging to read notation for, which is why I tend to see a lot of guitarists stick to tab. Lastly, I think this discussion is hindered by a disagreement over terms. What "learning a piece" means to me has changed over the years. When I look back at all those years I spent as an intermediate cellist, I "learned" pieces when I knew where to put my fingers to make the right sounds. (And this was learning via standard notation) It wasn't until I was in college, and I spent more time deeply studying pieces (both theory and history) that I realised how shallow my knowledge had been before. At the end of the day, standard notation is strikes the best balance between information density/ease of playing. It helps marry theory and practice in a way that facilitates stronger interpretations. I find tab, and systems like piano roll, to be less effective in the long term.
The comparison to guitar tab is something I thought about too. Both of these give you the notes, but not really any rhythmic information. You could argue the falling blocks is rhythm, but not really in a useful way. You have to be able to look ahead of where you are and pre-read what’s ahead, but that’s impossible rhythmically this way. But there’s no other information, no dynamics, articulations, expressions, pedal markings, etc. Great comment. I appreciate you.
I am a fairly skilled (not professional, but good enough that most people are impressed) pianist who learned by ear and from these sorts of scrolling-notes videos, and cannot sight-read sheet music-so while it's totally valid to say this method does not work for *you,* I would caution against saying it's "useless" or "ineffective" *in general.* I find that these falling-notes representations of music are much closer to how I visualize music than standard notation-they feel much more expressive and intuitive to me than dots on a page do. It's funny that you chose the Interstellar theme as one of your example pieces, because I actually learned a good chunk of Patrik Pietchmann's arrangement of the theme just by watching his falling-notes video! I will definitely say that seeing the performer's hands in the video makes a *big* difference. I am not *against* dot notation-clearly it has its merits and is useful for millions of musicians worldwide. But it has never felt *intuitive* to me the way scrolling-notes do.
I hope you won't be surprised, Josh Walsh, that I've come up with something of a rebuttal. Let's see. 1. There is a learning curve with a system like this. Why would you assume you could use it without practice? If you'll cast your mind back to when you were a kid and the pages had notes the size of quarters, remember how awkward it was? It took you ages and maybe decades to become truly conversant with it. I promise that this system will be much quicker. Far more intuitive. But you still need some practice in converting the boxes to keys on the piano. 2. You need to start out slowly, and gradually build up. 3. You mentioned wanting to see they keyboard light up. There are digital keyboards that do that. But even on your own piano you can get something of the sort. An LED bar that sits atop your keys. Costs about $200 last I checked. 4. Greats like Horowitz memorize the pieces they perform, so rarely do they use written music. 5. "Ludicrously stupid idea". I do believe there were some old timers watching those fool Wright brothers muttering something of the sort. 6. There are several programs that do this kind of thing and I'm not sure which specifically you're referring to. Generally, you don't need a subscription. There is free software. There is also something called Synesthesia, which is not free but requires a one time payment which I think is quite reasonable - $30, I think - a fairly sophisticated program. And you can use any MIDI file you can find online - there are tons of 'em. 7 "Music is complicated". Well it can be. But seems to me, conventional notation adds its own complexity, which has nothign to do with music. Why not strip as much of that out of the process as possible? 8. As to your Rembrandt analogy, conventional music IS paint by number. That's what the dots are for. 9. Wouldn't it be nice to do away with clefs, staves, key signatures, accidentals, and all that crap that adds nothing to the actual music? 10. I appreciate your heartfelt sentiments. I also feel strongly about music. But not sure what any of that has to do with to which notation system you use. Congratulations on your marriage. Wishing you two many years of happiness.
The only time I use these is to help me learn a passage which I can't decipher and which isn't available in sheet music form. Ultimately I feel about these the same way I feel about sheet music - if you end up focusing on it too much when you start learning to play music, it gets in the way of actually learning to understand music. It's just that these falling blocks also look more attractive to the newcomers than traditional black and white notes.
one piano scroll channel i LOVE is by Ruben Reyes. he also shows his hands while he plays, i’ve bought music off of him, but learning to play just through the video is hella frustrating. seeing the hands helps, going by ear helps, but those scrolling notes are little demons
I feel very differently about the piano roll performance videos. Where it’s added on top of a live performance for a cool visual. Rousseau for example. I don’t personally enjoy them, but I think they have some real entertainment value.
5:45 LMAO I wonder what your thoughts are on VR / mixed-reality apps that do this kind of thing. I actually made one that focuses on scales and theory instead of playing existing tunes. It plays backing tracks and shows scale suggestions by "projecting" degree labels directly on the keys, so it's a little bit different from the usual VR piano apps. That said, I'm questioning how useful it is all the time.
@@JoshWalshMusic Only for Meta Quest at the moment. I probably can't post a link here, but it's called ScaleGhost if you want to check it out. There's a trailer video, and also one user made a video review of it here on RUclips.
It's not even "a method". No one ever "learned to play piano" using that "method" and never will. But as a product and a means to extract money from unsuspecting folks - it works. Learning to play piano is f**g hard and it will stay such forever.
THIS method (if it really deserves to be called so) is for MUSIC-COWARDS who lacks the guts to discover that MUSIC READING is NOT that hard at all. There like: "Oh my God, THAT is NOT for me. I'm pretty sure AI will NEVER be able to master this technic." They don't understand that ALL IT TAKES in just ONE ON-LINE CURSES music reading. At least THAT'S what AI did about 10 years ago. And look at me now: right now I'm practicing CHOPIN op. 27.nr. 2 in D FLAT MAJOR. Again: JUST ONE ON-LINE CURSES MUSIC READING Bros. These illiterates have no clue that THIS ONE CURSES is akin to winning a SUPER BOLL: IT OPENS THE MUSIC SKY!!
![Kodak Black - Versatile 4 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VcP_1Ua__vY/mqdefault.jpg)
Josh, this is one of your funniest video’s! And I couldn’t agree more…these things are simply maddening! Thanks for another great video!
Do NOT miss your chance here Josh!
Bang on Josh! Really enjoyed this fun vid. Play Pinball Wizard! That's a fun one! 🎹😎
I've always thought of this notation system in the same way I see guitar tab.
I spent over 10 years playing cello, I've also studied three semesters of music theory in college. But when I first picked up the guitar in freshman year of college, I still used tablature. It let me quickly pick up things things and play the songs I wanted quickly. But ultimately, tab held me back when I began studying jazz a few years later. I felt like I didn't actually have a robust connection with my instrument. I hadn't really built up an understanding of how harmony and melody intersected/worked on my instrument and I also was half assing the rhythms (until I discovered songsterr, etc.)
A few caveats with this comparison to guitar tab... Guitar tab is hard to connect with chordal information but I think this "piano tab" is slightly better in this regard. At least you can sort of judge by the spacing of the notes and guess the chord/voicing. (Definetly no where near the usefulness of standard notation though). But secondly, I think guitar is much more challenging to read notation for, which is why I tend to see a lot of guitarists stick to tab.
Lastly, I think this discussion is hindered by a disagreement over terms. What "learning a piece" means to me has changed over the years. When I look back at all those years I spent as an intermediate cellist, I "learned" pieces when I knew where to put my fingers to make the right sounds. (And this was learning via standard notation) It wasn't until I was in college, and I spent more time deeply studying pieces (both theory and history) that I realised how shallow my knowledge had been before.
At the end of the day, standard notation is strikes the best balance between information density/ease of playing. It helps marry theory and practice in a way that facilitates stronger interpretations. I find tab, and systems like piano roll, to be less effective in the long term.
The comparison to guitar tab is something I thought about too. Both of these give you the notes, but not really any rhythmic information. You could argue the falling blocks is rhythm, but not really in a useful way. You have to be able to look ahead of where you are and pre-read what’s ahead, but that’s impossible rhythmically this way. But there’s no other information, no dynamics, articulations, expressions, pedal markings, etc.
Great comment. I appreciate you.
I am a fairly skilled (not professional, but good enough that most people are impressed) pianist who learned by ear and from these sorts of scrolling-notes videos, and cannot sight-read sheet music-so while it's totally valid to say this method does not work for *you,* I would caution against saying it's "useless" or "ineffective" *in general.* I find that these falling-notes representations of music are much closer to how I visualize music than standard notation-they feel much more expressive and intuitive to me than dots on a page do. It's funny that you chose the Interstellar theme as one of your example pieces, because I actually learned a good chunk of Patrik Pietchmann's arrangement of the theme just by watching his falling-notes video! I will definitely say that seeing the performer's hands in the video makes a *big* difference.
I am not *against* dot notation-clearly it has its merits and is useful for millions of musicians worldwide. But it has never felt *intuitive* to me the way scrolling-notes do.
Excellent points! And thanks for the laughs!
lol, "It's my mom's house"
We need to have a chat about the rental fee for using my house. 😉
I will replenish the pickle.
I hope you won't be surprised, Josh Walsh, that I've come up with something of a rebuttal. Let's see.
1. There is a learning curve with a system like this. Why would you assume you could use it without practice? If you'll cast your mind back to
when you were a kid and the pages had notes the size of quarters, remember how awkward it was? It took you ages and maybe decades
to become truly conversant with it. I promise that this system will be much quicker. Far more intuitive. But you still need some practice in
converting the boxes to keys on the piano.
2. You need to start out slowly, and gradually build up.
3. You mentioned wanting to see they keyboard light up. There are digital keyboards that do that. But even on your own piano you can get something
of the sort. An LED bar that sits atop your keys. Costs about $200 last I checked.
4. Greats like Horowitz memorize the pieces they perform, so rarely do they use written music.
5. "Ludicrously stupid idea". I do believe there were some old timers watching those fool Wright brothers muttering something of the sort.
6. There are several programs that do this kind of thing and I'm not sure which specifically you're referring to. Generally, you don't need a subscription. There is free software. There is also something called Synesthesia, which is not free but requires a one time payment which I think
is quite reasonable - $30, I think - a fairly sophisticated program. And you can use any MIDI file you can find online - there are tons of 'em.
7 "Music is complicated". Well it can be. But seems to me, conventional notation adds its own complexity, which has nothign to do with music. Why not strip as much of that out of the process as possible?
8. As to your Rembrandt analogy, conventional music IS paint by number. That's what the dots are for.
9. Wouldn't it be nice to do away with clefs, staves, key signatures, accidentals, and all that crap that adds nothing to the actual music?
10. I appreciate your heartfelt sentiments. I also feel strongly about music. But not sure what any of that has to do with to which notation system you use.
Congratulations on your marriage. Wishing you two many years of happiness.
Thanks man. Good thoughts and I found myself nodding in affirmation with a lot of what you said here.
(We got married 17 years ago, not recently.)
The only time I use these is to help me learn a passage which I can't decipher and which isn't available in sheet music form. Ultimately I feel about these the same way I feel about sheet music - if you end up focusing on it too much when you start learning to play music, it gets in the way of actually learning to understand music. It's just that these falling blocks also look more attractive to the newcomers than traditional black and white notes.
Thank God sight reading real notes was always stressed to me by all my teachers!
one piano scroll channel i LOVE is by Ruben Reyes. he also shows his hands while he plays, i’ve bought music off of him, but learning to play just through the video is hella frustrating. seeing the hands helps, going by ear helps, but those scrolling notes are little demons
I feel very differently about the piano roll performance videos. Where it’s added on top of a live performance for a cool visual. Rousseau for example.
I don’t personally enjoy them, but I think they have some real entertainment value.
Yeah I always slow down the video before learning
how tall are you?
My mom fertilized me a lot. (6'5")
5:45 LMAO
I wonder what your thoughts are on VR / mixed-reality apps that do this kind of thing. I actually made one that focuses on scales and theory instead of playing existing tunes. It plays backing tracks and shows scale suggestions by "projecting" degree labels directly on the keys, so it's a little bit different from the usual VR piano apps. That said, I'm questioning how useful it is all the time.
Is this publicly available? I'd love to see it. I've tried a couple things on Apple Vision Pro.
@@JoshWalshMusic Only for Meta Quest at the moment. I probably can't post a link here, but it's called ScaleGhost if you want to check it out. There's a trailer video, and also one user made a video review of it here on RUclips.
It's not even "a method". No one ever "learned to play piano" using that "method" and never will. But as a product and a means to extract money from unsuspecting folks - it works. Learning to play piano is f**g hard and it will stay such forever.
Bwahahahhaha the Harry Potter 1-2-3
THIS method (if it really deserves to be called so) is for MUSIC-COWARDS who lacks the guts to discover that MUSIC READING is NOT that hard at all. There like: "Oh my God, THAT is NOT for me. I'm pretty sure AI will NEVER be able to master this technic." They don't understand that ALL IT TAKES in just ONE ON-LINE CURSES music reading. At least THAT'S what AI did about 10 years ago. And look at me now: right now I'm practicing CHOPIN op. 27.nr. 2 in D FLAT MAJOR. Again: JUST ONE ON-LINE CURSES MUSIC READING Bros. These illiterates have no clue that THIS ONE CURSES is akin to winning a SUPER BOLL: IT OPENS THE MUSIC SKY!!
Imslp