Britain's most debated rock
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2024
- The Altar stone of Stonehenge seemingly came from Scotland. But how do we know that?
Anthony's paper: www.nature.com...
Other great info on the topic: mikepitts.word...
A book about Stonehenge I love a.co/d/bsyA5ez
Edited by Michael Laput
Written by Stefan Milo
Huge thanks to Anthony Clarke
Huge thanks to my generous patrons
/ stefanmilo
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Always appreciated big man. Great video.
I wish I could attend.
Can we attend remotely? I would love to but I live in Brazil.
just a short silly question Stefan. Did they do this kind of atomic profiling at doggerland ?
Great video as always! So cool that once again geology explaining history with some DNA mouse magic trick. Same kind as history of vikings and their mouses :D
@@Madferreiroyes!
Just a pedantic clarification: Radiometric dates do not tell you the age of the sandstone. Instead, they tell you the age of the rock that formed the individual sand grains. That’s why there is a range of ages for the altar stone.
Oh that’s kind of interesting, thank you
Thank you for clarifying! It can't tell you when it was lithified or eroded from its parent rock. Rocks are cool 😎
But during college I grew to appreciate my double major because even scientific papers have geologic inaccuracies in them. The general information didn't change, more the fine details. And depending on what you were looking for, those fine details mattered. Don't expect a zoology paper when you're reading a paleontolgy one, for example. Or a geology one if you're reading an archeology study. I'd like to see that gap disappear.
yeah this distinction is crucial for accurately interpreting geological history.
I also know a lot about dating rocks. Oh, wait, never mind...
Yeah I tried to convey that but probably did a poor job. Thanks for the clarification though!
My dad was a geologist at the University of Texas at Austin who specialized in isotopic decay analysis. I remember one time when I was in college doing homework in his office when he had a meeting a with an grad student from the anthropology department. My dad was helping him with his dissertation where by analyzing isotope ratios in lead shot that was found, they were able to rewrite the narrative of how some battle in the Texas Revolution was fought. They were able to trace bullets to mines and use the patterns of which bullets were found where on the battlefield to reconstruct the battle. That was cool.
13:58 "Moving rocks is honestly one of our favorite things to do."
We must imagine Sisyphus happy.
Oh. I BURN with envy of your wit. If I had thought of that I might have cried with joy.
:)
Stunned you didn't approach me for a pixelated photo and traumatic first hand account of excavating around Stonehenge in miserable sideways rain.
Great vid!
Pete
There is even a Bluey episode about how removing a stump from the yard was play for the men. A community coming together to do the impossible would have been dangerous but very rewarding physically, psychologically, and socially.
BLUEY FOR THE WIN
Yeh that's exactly how blokes act here in Australia! Even when they're Germans. Some sort of tribal thing I noticed when I lived on a small acreage, among other "treechangers". The only role for women is to stand back, provide the food and beers, and keep the children out of the way. It's THAT kind of experience for men, recalling when men were men and women were subservient. In western society, I guess it's only the past 100 years or so that we've been able to see this from a feminist perspective.
That whole scene was sickening really because it went on in that vein, day after day, with "good blokes" building houses and sharing skills all around the local hills and valleys. Now I have my own house and garden elsewhere and have successfully removed a few of my own tree stumps. One bloke came and looked at one, told me it would be very difficult and require a special chainsaw. While we were talking, I grabbed the base to see if it was firm and it broke right off, rotted out. No chainsaws required.
"moving rocks is one of our favourite things to do" i love it!
And it is total bullshit.
@@forestdweller5581so you're saying that the pyramids wasn't just a huge exercise in moving rocks? Like it or not, that comment is pretty solid: humans have moved rocks as a pastime for thousands of years and almost every culture on Earth did it.
@@forestdweller5581 ehh buildings !
What gets me is that I just did a road trip and drove @500 miles in the western US and in one day; yet it must have been weeks or months to move a stone @that distant. These videos are always humbling to me.
@@thelostone6981 I just did 2244 miles from Oregon to Ohio. I thought about similar things. Covered wagons and horses. Brave people!
They went by sea, not land
@@samnrob1 that's even more terrifying.
@@Jason1975ism tbf they didn't have to go over deep ocean, they could just hug the coast.
and they could unload the rock *at worst* in modern day southampton but probably they could have taken the boat to salisbury if not even closer to the final destination, which is super convenient.
Boulders were moved south by advancing glaciers... & dumped in current sites when glaciers retreated. Simple.
I love that Stonehenge may have been the happening rave spot of the Neolithic. One of the best things about the sites from Orkney is that we get to connect with the people by visiting their actual houses at Skara Brae. Now we get to connect with them by finding that they traveled hundreds of kilometers for a fun time, just as we do now for concerts or festivals or conventions. It makes you wonder what kind of music and dances they had. And I just love that the Orcadians (or northern islanders in general) brought their coolest rock to contribute to the party location. A true representation of what was most important to their megalithic culture!
Here in the USA, one of our founding documents promotes the fundamental values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It's wonderful to find evidence of how basic the pursuit of happiness really is to humanity. It gives a whole new meaning to getting your rocks off!
As a geologist I love geology getting some love on one of my favorite RUclips channels ❤
Woo! A new Stefan video! My day just got better!!
same :)
Thank you!!! I've been watching Nick Zentner who teaches geology at Central Washington University talk about the huge movement of tectonic plates along the west coast of North America for years and they often use the information about dating of rocks. It's remarkably useful and now I finally understand how the dates are calculated.
This episode was wonderful.
PNW surely has some of the globe's most fascinating geology - more so because it's all so recent, geologically speaking, and visibly is still in flux. Professor Zentner got me hooked - his lectures and vids are here on YT.
So fascinating! You had great questions Stefan and Anthony did a wonderful job breaking down some complex topics.
Never go to a party empty handed.
I'd love to know what kind of boat tech they could have had. Boating with a boulder would take serious skill
Exactly what I thought. It might have even been a sort of status thing to contribute a boulder brought from so far away.
Great episode Stefan. Thanks for always being so enthusiastic, which brings so much life to these questions and stories.
Cheers
"Moving rocks is one of our favorite things to do" got me lol, so true.
Thank you, keep up the great work!
Love your channel. I have a passion for ancient world and your channel are some how so enjoyable no matter when or how many video I’ve watch!
Thanks Milo. Clearly, Britain has been rocking and rolling across the length of the island since way back in prehistory.
Basically the Stonedhangers said Dude, we're so gonna rock out and the other guys said we're in for a pound each.
1:58 ... almost spit my lunch hearing Matt's voice..!!! Nice one Stefan 😂😂
Beat me too it!!!! All us nerds must watch the same channels! 😂😂😂 Shout out to North 02, ancient Americas and Nathaniel fossen!
Your passion is contagious ❤
Proud of myself for wondering if transport could have been glacial. Humbled by the ease with which the geologists says, "yeah nah yeah."
In other countries geologists agree that such enormous rocks have been moved by glaciers, but in the UK the folklore around Stonehenge and people carrying huge stones on their backs seems too entrenched to let go.
I'm not a geologist, but I"d like to hear the opinion of continental geologists on this.
Me too, as I've seen a lot of erratics and moraines in various places.
Good point to consider, but better to say "nah, yeah, nah". As an amateur, I'd say the rock would be smooth and polished if it had been under or through glaciers. I've worked extensively in a garden in the highlands on Seattle's east side where the ground is pure moraine, made of beautiful, polished, roundish, oval-ish rocks that mostly all dry a whitish colour when washed. Rarely bigger than your head but maybe that's locational or because these ones are near the surface. Different types of stone - blue, red and green - are in there too. Absolutely beautiful and ideal for landscaping. Some neighbourhood homes cleverly use them to create Japanese-style moss gardens. Having never been to Japan, I'm wondering if this is why the style stems from there and maybe they too have a lot of polished moraine rocks.
If Bunnings here in Oz could easily get their hands easily on white, roundish rocks like those in Seattle, they would be selling them for $16 EACH, given that's what they charge for smallish landscaping rocks meant as stepping stones last I looked.
@@ronald3836 The guy in the interview also agreed that such enormous rocks have been moved by glaciers. He had other reasons for dismissing that possibility, if you paid attention.
@@varana Yes, that they moved in the wrong direction. But there have been many ice ages. My country has plenty of erratics but was not covered at all by the last ice age.
It's always funny to me how people today always assume that ancient people couldn't have done a big thing when those humans are exactly the same species as us.
Being an avid collector of folk tales and myths, I have to mention the one in the Greek collection that talks about Apollo traveling to the Hebrides to build a temple. In those ancient time all of Britain was called Hebrides, not just the island of Hebrides. It has been a while since reading it but I believe it was out of Bullfinches' Mythology. It also mentioned that women from the Pythoness' temple traveled there every 5 years to talk and have a cultural exchange with priestesses at Apollos temple.
Are you sure Bulfinch (one 'l') wasn't talking about Hyperborea? Apollo was certainly associated with Hyperborea, and it was said that his mother Leto was born there, but although to the Greeks it lay 'beyond the North Wind' (the literal meaning of the name), it was generally understood to lie north of the Swiss Alps. This was certainly a Celtic area, but still far from modern Scotland, which the Celts likely did not reach much before 700 BCE, and no-one (as far as I can tell) has suggested that the names of 'Hebrides' and 'Hyperborera' are etymologically connected.
As a non-geolist too, I found the study into the geochemistry, establishing the exact location of the larger Sarsens source a fascinating one. A little differnt from the methodology of this one, but fascinating all the same.
Did I hear the Ancient Architects channel host's voice?
Yep me too
Yup
Totally Matt Stebson's voice. Unmistakable!
Look at these RUclips anthropology fans! Yay!
Speaking of which, RUclips needs more anthropology channels...
We love the crossovers!
I'm not saying it was aliens...
Because it wasn't.
"Moving rocks is honestly one of our favorite things to do"
Stefan is ready for a PhD
He would fail miserably. Easier to be a vlogger and just skirt along every topic.
@@forestdweller5581 why you hanging around being a hater? Buzz off
Oooh new Stefan vid! Hell yes
Super interesting. And thanks for the explanation about dating rocks.
I dated a rock.
Been married to him for 24 years
as a pnw native I am delighted to see familiar things in your backround. Love the videos too!
It gets my imagination going... Hey how about everybody bring a good rock from home and we will build it together. People from much further away brought one big rock, as people that lived closer could bring more than one big rock. then everyboy working together to put them up in a pattern that we are not sure about. Lovely puzzle!
Keepup the wonderful videos!
Surely the most debated rock of Britain is Oasis
Wonder if they'll ever use it for a wall
I thought we'd all agreed they were rubbish years ago.
@@clint-webb Definitely maybe, some might say
I think the only people still debating Oasis are Noel and Liam. Most people know better.
Boooo!
Thanks,Stefan,top quality reporting yet again. A retired archaeologist from Norfolk, England salutes you!
Another great episode!
I've always wanted to see an in-depth episode on the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. I know there isnt a lot out there on that culture, but know it wouldn't disappoint.
I second that suggestion!
"That's just a stupid boulder"
"It's not a boulder, it's a rock"
(I just had to, sorry)
I wonder if the alter stone was originally part of an even older ritual place in Scotland, and when that community moved south for whatever reason, they wanted to take their alter with them to be the center piece of the new henge they would build.
I wonder if your brain is even capable of any hypothesis? Why don't you start with spelling the words correctly. The correct term is altar and not alter.
like other ancient "monuments" it might not of necessarily been the same "community" who moved this stone, might have been a trophy of war like the Victory Stele of Naram-Sin
One thing i speculate about is over the assumption this stone was brought in a single, purpose driven trip. I think like the stone of scone it could have been "stolen" multiple times and just as likely made it's journey in leaps and bounds to Stonehenge over an extended period of time.
yay! perfect to put on at work, thanks stefan!
i enjoyed this and learned things
Great stuff , prior to the Norman invasion the hub of the ancient British wheel was Northern Scotland, Orkney and the Shetland
Love your videos Stefan! One video idea: the Papar Irish Monks of Iceland. I feel like there is a dearth of information out there about whether or not they really existed, and I'd love to hear your take.
Very nearly got caught in a detailed discussion about lead.
Stefan missed the chance for the line “It’s a geol-orgy in northern Scotland”.
Neolithic man knew how to confuse their descendants for thousands of years afterwards.
Elagabal us moved the baetyl from Emesa to Rome in 218CE. I have a lovely little denarius depicting the stone being transported on a quadriga. Moving stuff about on the surface of the Earth is what people do.
A very interesting video/documentary, thanks for uploading this.
Great video! Cool that you got the actual Ancient Architect!
Partying in Neolithic Stonehenge is definitely on my time-travel bucket list 😉
currently watching this in my AP Chem class, love ya Stef
How very interesting! Assuming the results are correct, how it got there isn't the most interesting question as we can never know for sure - best guess would be by sea, but who knows? But "Why?" and from exactly "Where?" are most intriguing questions.
Why? Did the 'Alter Stone' come from a place of significance, or was it donated to a place of significance from the people who lived at it's source?
Where? It may be possible to locate the exact outcropping. Will that location have a known significance? Will we find one? Will it remain a mystery?
Another great video!! Thanks bro 🙌🏼
A lot of the hypotheses surrounding Stonehenge revolve around it being an area of congregation, where people would come together perhaps on Solstices (particularly the Winter Solstice if I recall)
With that, perhaps the stone coming from the northern UK was brought as a symbol of coming together. Even the rock being a tie that binded them.
I think even back then we could have had some idea of how eternal rocks are compared to anything else; and what better representation of long term unity is that.
Than moving the ground to another’s foot.
Maybe they lived a semi-nomadic lifestyle? idk. It's a solid trek from northern Scotland to the Wiltshire Plain. But carrying a big rock on a bullock or horse-pulled cart as a gift for their hosts would give the whole journey some extra significance or purpose.
@@VanillaMacaron551 I believe most, maybe almost everyone was nomadic at the time; also, I’m uncertain of whether horses had made it to the isles by then
There's a good argument that the Stone of Scone is Britain's most debated rock. And we aren't talking about my wife's shortbread baking.
Another Stefan BANGER
Informative as usual.
A thought crossed my mind while watching this video. What if Stonehenge was intended as a unifying symbol for all of the people of the Island? As such, stones were intentionally brought from different regions for that reason?
Prior to this video I would have assumed that glaciers were responsible for the stone traveling that distance. Good video.
Perhaps it served as a site for gatherings, rituals, or negotiations, helping to forge alliances and strengthen communal ties.
@@AncientWildTV Perhaps. I know I'm merely speculating, but I think people have always been mostly the same. Symbols are important in creating harmony among disparate people. What the site was used for, is a harder thing to speculate about. I am only guessing why there are rocks from diverse areas.
Stefan, Tony and Matt kick flipping arse dude!
God, I love your channel! I could watch you and listen to your voice all day! Your videos are just SO interesting!
Britain's second biggest rock debate is The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones
Always perk up when I see you upload
So Interesting, thanks for putting this video out there.
Interesting subject matter
Thanks for the upload!!!
15:37 .. CARTA .. is awesome! They have LOTS of videos of lectures free on YT.. I’ve been watching/listening to them for years now..
totally worth looking at that catalog!!
“Oh, hey. Undisclosed background music.”
If you are interested in geology I would suggest the channel Nick Zentner. He does the amazing job and his short videos he does with our local PBS stations Nick on the Rocks are top tier. He is one of those passionate professors that enraptures you with his lectures.
Check out Shawn Willsey too, he's out of Idaho. He produces a lot of videos that get into the concepts of geology, he's also in the middle of doing a 'Geology 101' set of videos that tracks with his regular class.
@@nothanks3236 and they've worked together to some extent - Nick's recent Idaho series was inspired/encouraged by Shawn.
SHOUT-OUT TO THE VOLE.
Also absolutely in love with the buddo, I honestly thought it was an owl when I first saw them!
Huh! I thought they were a bit previous in jumping to Orkney specifically, but they seemed so certain it was at least from the far north of Scotland that I just accepted that. But anyway, the rocks around there (and Orkney) are terrifically varied.
Thanks for this entertaining episode.
But, Milo, there is evidence of glaciation on Salisbury Plain. The scouring underlying the Avenue is glacial. Also the geologist Professor Johns suggests that the blue stones were transported by glaciation from SW Wales. There are verified Scottish pink granite eratics on the north coast of Devon and there is no dispute that their transportation was glacial. The main problem here is, I think, that archæologists are not geologists and geologists are not archæologists. One thing is certain, that the builders of Stonehenge were good petrologists and knew that the sarsen, blue stones and altar stones were different and were used by them differently.
The blue stones from Wales were transported from there to Stonehenge. Archaeologists have even found their original ring site in Wales. There was a recent documentary on this on UK TV (sorry I've forgotten the name of the doc but it might be on YT).
My family and I visited Stonehenge in June. Absolutely wonderful. Didn't see the altar stone. It's kinda hidden.
stonhenge was an ancient rave festival and the stone was a party gift
If I didn't have some rocks to move I'd be attending that there symposia.
Thanks for the vid, Stonehenge gets weirder!
I love CARTA. Great organization.
So fascinating how much archeology is an intersection of sciences
Recognized Matt Stibney's voice there....also a great recommendation for Ancient Architecture and stuff like that. Cheerio
If the ancients were capable of erecting such structures then they were certainly capable of building sophisticated boats and ships to transport the stones.
My only negative criticism for this presentation is that it did not come anywhere near to lasting my entire ten hour shift.
Otherwise, I loved this. The Buddo quickly made its way into my favorite Neolithic Artifacts, which is a mental list that I am sure everyone has.
What a fun little treat this video was
Good stuff. Thanks.
As an American, who for whatever reason uses the British pronunciation of literally, I am literally considering being offended that you were not familiar with the Alter Stone of Stonehenge. I will forgive you, because you are also literally my very most favorite RUclips channel. However, the lack of understanding about basic geology is up for debate, as to how offended I am going to choose to be.
I would like to thank you for sharing two videos so closely released. It's been a pleasure. Love to your wife and kids.
*Altar
no spoon. Yay! A new Milo video!
Tony is the first person I've seen that looks like young Willem Dafoe.
Great video by the way.
Much appreciated.
My guess is that this was the first stone and after dragging the rock 600miles, and someone said, “let’s go get another”, I am positive that everyone else replied “NO EFFIN WAY!!!!”
Great video!!!! Thanks!!
Top video, always love it when the Worcestershire cricket cap gets an outing ❤
Wish I was looking at rocks with you again before you were infamous. Any rock will do!
This is extremely nerdy. I love it!
Solid video, totally rocks 😅
To quote Bill Bryson: “whoever was behind Stonehenge was one dickens of a motivator” 😂
Another great video!
Please have Anthony as a recurring character going forward.
Maybe it was a diverse group of people making Stonehenge and different groups brought different rocks from their representative areas. Maybe it was a diverse group of people making Stonehenge and different groups brought different rocks from their representative areas like they each made a contribution to Stonehenge from their region.
Fascinating!
Low-key wishing the regions of the UK were named after those geological "terrains". I mean come on, how cool are "East Avalonia", "Megumia", "Laurentia" and "Orcadia"?
Yes! Also Cascadia in the US.
@@VanillaMacaron551 Oh yes that one's a banger too. Certainly cooler than "Washington State" or "British Columbia"
oh my god in may I did a uni presentation on neolithic mobility and I also brought up the orkney voles!!! everyone reacted like I was mad for talking about voles in an archaeology presentation thank you for the validation that it was a perfectly reasonable case study!
i love the story of Stonehenge so much, im fairly local and it makes a great case study for college. it's such a fascinating landscape, and it's been changing since forever and it likely will continue to change for even longer!
not to drag down the atmosphere at all but it's really poignant to know this is likely the last big discovery in his study area which Timothy Darvill got to see before he passed away on the 5th. he was a heavy hitter in prehistoric and Neolithic specifically archaeology in Britain, and was a key director of work with the Stonehenge Ritual Landscape. i was only made aware of his death because he was involved with the company i work for, but i believe he was a proponent of a form of the Orcadian cultural impact on Stonehenge, so it's nice to know he got to see this study before he passed.
I would love some more videos on the Neolithic, particularly Europe, but also anywhere else. It feels like such a fascinating, interconnected lost world that archaeology is slowly shedding more light on.
👍thanks Love your work
shout out to ancient architects awesome voice over work
Thank you.
2:54 this guy is great 😆