Sisko - "Admiral Hastur we need reinforcements!" Hastur - "Don't worry captain. Reinforcements are on their way! The task force will soon arrive consisting of one Galaxy, 2 Excelsior, a Miranda and....and....2...other....ships." Sisko - "...." Hastur - "...." Sisko - "You're sending me some Oberth class again, don't you?" Hast - "Well good luck captain. Hastur out!"
Lore Reloaded - I wonder what it would take to refit an Oberth into what could best be called a 'Lethal Joke Character'? It's not really built for combat, but if history has shown us anything, it's that otherwise innocuous objects can be absolutely devastating with the right mods, and in the right hands. (So, in this context, under Sisko's command.)
Garak: "I find this hand to hand combat really quite distasteful!" Dukat: "I Suppose you prefer the simplicity of an interrogation chamber" *grunts fighting off 2 Klingons!* Garak: "You have to admit, its much more civilised!" Small scene but my favourite during the battle! :)
You know what would be hilarious, if starfleet refitted one Oberth class ship with some serious tech. Primary and secondary shielding. Ablative armor, quantum torpedoes and type 11 or 12 phasers. But only just Oberth class ship...just one. I would love to see the poor bird of prey or jem'hadar attack ship that went for it thinking it was easy prey like the rest of its class. Kinda like a Miranda class with functioning shields...
Why send an entire task force to help DS9, you can just send one Oberth class, those ships can one shot a Borg cube, and they are the single reason the Federation and allies won the Dominion war
Turns out it's a Mk.12 Super-Oberth with Regenerative Shields, Cloaking, all the labs replaced with shield generators and/or phaser cannon generators, a secondary deflector (if one deflector is magical, two is just plain evil), and is commanded by a clone of Benjamin Sisko. ...Sucks to be the Klingon attack force, huh?
Honestly by the end of the Dominion war and shortly after the Defiant, Sovereign, Akira, Promethean, Intrepid and Luna class ships were all war ships with other titles. And for those of you asking why a long range explorer class like the Luna would be a war ship. Think about this: the Luna upon launch had the most advanced shields and sensors. These advancements would prompt retrofits to every other class on this list. They had the same number of the same type of phasers as the Sovereign class ship, which was just over 3 times the size of the Luna. Additionally the Luna was the first class of ship to start carrying Hellfire torpedoes. Hellfire torpedoes create a thermal effect when they collided with shields that would cause the shields to burn holes in the hull. The torpedoes are extremely difficult to build as it was tech that USD Titan got from a Beta Quadrant species they helped. That species used a unknown element that was specific to the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant. Despite this the Akira and Sovereign class ships would start carrying the same 3 torpedoes that the Luna carried. Also remember we are talking about Commander Xin Ra'havari's Luna class, not the Kirk era Luna class.
The modified tractor beam that the Defiant deployed against the Vor'cha attack crusier was not intended to hold the Klingon ship but rather scramble its forward disruptor cannon --- which it did for a short while.
Lore Reloaded also Sisko used the tractor beam to disrupt the Klingon weapons and that is why you see the weapon fire going absolutely everywhere other than to the defiant. Not to lock on and hold the ship.
You know... All the jokes about Oberths. I just thought of how to make them somewhat good in a battle. Ablative Hull and maximum sensor systems. They could be used as "Spotters" and have crews trained to spot cloaked ships and relay extra targeting and other information to their allies.
Spaceborne Warning and Control. It's honestly not a horrible idea given Trek's technology. Outfit them with all the sensor tech you don't have space for on a front-line ship, give them the computing capacity to process and interpret the data, and sit them back behind the lines to warn the combatants about any incoming threats. Would also be a great place for an admiral, so long as one provided it with proper escort.
@Luscious Luchs On the one hand, yeah, runabouts can take hits far better than Oberths. But on the other hand, the entire point is to not let the enemy get within shooting range of your SWACS ships. Hence the escorts, which would hopefully have enough firepower and mobility to blow anything that gets through the front line out of the sky before it can attack the Oberth. And ideally, the admiral in question would have a far better picture of the battlefield thanks to the sensor and computing equipment.
Moral of the story is to have some kind of very long range bombardment/siege weapon on your biggest ships that allows you to attack a space station from outside of normal photon torpedo and phaser range, allowing you to pound the station from afar without receiving devastating return fire. That shouldn't be too hard if the civilization has half a brain since the target is a huge space station that can't do evasive maneuvers. I guess I can't bang on the Klingons too hard for this since the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons combined never learned this lesson, which would have been a big help fighting the Cardassian orbital weapon platforms instead of the idiotic plan to just charge the allied fleet right into the teeth of the enemy defense.
DocWolph because DS9 is the most fucking overpowered space station in Star Trek. There’s so many god damn torpedo turrets and phaser turrets. Jesus Christ its Jason bor- oh wait wrong franchise.
Yeah... this bothers me. As we know from Mass Effect, firing a weapon in space WILL ruin someones day, somewhere, someday. So why can you line up two fleets and not bombard from range? They are basically using ship of the line tactics in the era of cruise missiles.
Something to consider: DS9 was a refitted mining station, from a species whose technology was both inferior and often incompatible to the Federation. Not a top of the line Feddie defensive station or a Klingon battle station. But despite being a giant kitbash of a mining platform, DS9 both ripped up the Klingons and the Dominion in battle, costing both forces far more than it lost.
Were there any 'Feddie defensive station or a Klingon battle station' shown in canon? AFAIK neither faction possessed powerful 'battle stations', their stations were build with other primary uses, mainly the maintenance of starships. Orbital weapons platforms however, were used by all sides, and did have the ability to schredd whole fleets. DS9s modifications probably made it the best defended station in the quadrant....
Most break downs are community votes - Which are done sometime on saturday (you can hit the notification tab or just check the community tab at some point on a Saturday (US CST time) - And vote! :) That said, I don't ever intend to stop - so you'll see more. I'll definetly do break downs of every star trek scenario there is..till I die or they stop..which ever happens first.. Thanks!
Sisko: We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!
For me the prime directive only held for species that where out of the loop because in next generation I believe that they had a bejoren on the crew and in addition if they could be allowed to join the federation then it would to me seem like they were in the loop (loop meaning in the know)
The Bajorans, like any other non Fed citizens could still join Starfleet if a captain or above recommended them. Worf is kind of an exception here but the rule is universal. The Prime Directive applies in two ways: non-warp civilizations and internal matters of any world. By this time the Bajorans were warp capable and were in contact with the Federation, so the PD would not apply here. The internal matters would be the politics between the various leaders and factions as well as Bajor's relationship with other worlds. Sisko rushed to prevent Bajor from joining the Feds to prevent both the Dominion and Fed/Klingons disturbing them
I would go along with classifying the Defiant class as an escort ship rather than a battleship. It is supposed to be a small scout sized ship with minimal crew. As powerful as it is it lacks the crew capacity and scale to be really called a battleship. In terms of a navy it would be equivalent to an attack submarine. A specialist in sneak attacks with a small crew that can take out ships of far greater size given the right situation but not built to go toe to toe over a long battle.
When I was watching season 3 of DS9 on TV, I noticed that the captain said you wanted to ship that didn't have any family could be the use of any kind he only wanted to ship for one purpose to fight. Anyway, the defiant only has three Basic Essentials they are: rooms for crew, a small docotors office, and a medium-sized cafeteria.
Don't laugh at the slingshot effect - gravity assist, as it's normally called, is why our probes can reach Pluto in several years rather than several decades. Hell, thanks to gravity assist Voyager 1 reached interstellar space in just 40 years - it's currently flying at an absolutely stupid speed of 18km/s.
I have to wonder how Sisko managed to keep his posting. He effectively opened the gates to the Alpha quadrant for the Dominion which was a prelude to the most prolong war they've ever had, essentially reignited the Klingon Federation conflict, used terror tactics in dealing with the Maquis, threw out the rule book and co-operate in a conspiracy to get the Romulans involved in the war... The man did the right thing here yes, but at what cost? Aside from the temporal ashtazi, no one seemed to have ever grilled Sisko for answers.
Happy birthday! "The Defiant would use it's tractor beam to hold the Vor'cha class cruiser in place". Go rewatch the episode, that's not what happened. The Defiant needed to drop shields to beam the Cardassians aboard, so they used their tractor beam (set to push, not pull) to deflect the disruptor fire coming from the cruiser. That's why the cruiser's shields being up didn't matter. the cruiser wasn't the target of the tractor beam, the disruptor fire coming from the cruiser was the target.
Lore Reloaded the tractors purpose was to disrupt its targeting array. It was a cone effect covering the front of the vor'cha. The vor'cha still wished to maintain its superior position behind the defiant and thus appeared to be dragged. I imagine they were trying to find a way to overcome the effect of the modulated tractor beam.
Lieutenant Commander Worf Suggestion to modulate The Tractor Beam which reduced The Klingon's Disruptor Fire Effectiveness by Fifty Percent. Mr. Worf had resigned his Starfleet Command Commission of Lieutenant and briefly served with The Klingon Defense Force initially as Weapons Officer on board The Vor'cha Class Attack Cruiser IKS Bortas during The Klingon Civil War later transferring to his brother Captain Kurn's Command The Bird of Prey IKS Hegh'ta.
I will do a take about 2-3 times.. and then edit out the ones I don't like..sometimes (though rarer and rarer - thank god) - two takes will get through.
It was probably designed to hunt in packs, too. Remember that the Federation used picket lines against the cube; defend to delay, engage, retreat. The defiant fought at every picket line and managed to survive until the final minutes of the engagement. That was hours and hours of battling on the fly and the engagement at Earth.
The Defiant fought at multiple perimeters. It was one of the first ships to engage the Borg, and the fact that it was still functional up until the Enterprise arrived is a testament to its durability.
The Neg'Var class you show in the ship summary is the Mirror Universe variant, that was FAR larger than the normal universe version, which was only slightly larger than the Vor'cha. You can see them together in some of the battle footage.
I'll take a look. I didn't know it was 'far larger' but it was the only really good footage I could find and th us used - i'll remember that in other break downs.
I think the idea that Martok was a changeling at this time is a bit retcon. He cut his hand and bled at the beginning of the epIsolde. Maybe he was replaced during this episode. I dunno.i also found it very strange that they docked the defiant to fight this battle. Call me ignorant, but I think, given a siege by a massive Klingon fleet, you’d want your best military asset involved.
This is actually explained in the episode paradise lost. They explain how changelings could keep blood in them and then let it drop out when asked in order to bypass security measures.
@@LoreReloaded A fair point. But in Paradise lost, that fact is presented as supposition rather than proven fact. It also always seemed to me that the implication was they could fool a blood screening by somehow using the sample method or technology used by Federation and Klingon doctors as the means of fooling it, rather than carrying pools of blood around in them and can, at will, spurt it out making it look so perfectly like a knife cut. Mind you, every time we see a changeling alter it's shape, there's an accompanying sound effect that wasn't present during the meeting with Martok. This is just supposition on my part to be sure, but as it's never conclusively said, it just feels kind of like a retcon to me. It felt to me, and still does, that the idea of implying Martok in Way of the Warrior was a changeling was done after the fact for In Pergatory's Shadow because J G Hertzler was a good actor that people liked on screen, and he pulled off a Klingon well. The writers wanted him back in the cast so made it up for that script. Though, I could absolutely be wrong about that. Like how Lorerunner says that Bashir being genetically modified was a retcon, but it unintentionally makes sense in a lot of scenes (before the revelation) upon re-watching, however unintentionally.
Happy Birthday and well done on the breakdown just one improvement maybe a little more about the hand to hand combat and fire that took place inside DS9 .
Not the first time I've gotten that criticism.. I'm going to start focusing on ground combat - I may even come back and do a 'First battle of DS9 (Ground Combat)'
To be fair, the only *real* issue in Discovery when it came to the Klingons was the insane amount of mediocrity and stupidity on their part, and the 10 full plates of plot armor Sonequa Martin-Green brought with her to make up for not having any when she was on The Walking Dead. "Vulcan martial arts" or not, she is no Sisko, Kira, or Dax when it comes to fighting hand-to-hand. I wouldn't even rate her as high as O'Brien, and he got knocked down in this fight and had to be saved by Worf despite being a grizzled old NCO.
If i was sisko i would of either targeted all weapong fired on the neg'var or ask word for suggestion of ds9 weapon platform patterns to fire of just go after the neg'var otself. At it was ds9 in it first volley destroyed 8 klingon ship amd damaged several klingon ship heavy.
Having adjusted your ship breakdowns to not include the shield info every time was great to see. Also it seems to me that in the ground combat the Klingons sometimes just stand there and take the hit a bit too much. That's the only thing about the ground fights in star trek that is annoying to me at least, I'm in no way a expert on fighting.
Indeed.. but I always have stuff to fix so.. I don't think I'll ever have something I am one hundred percent on. I am going to start doing more ground combat break down.. On that note, you ever notice that in all of startrek they have like only 3 moves total?
Star Trek hand to hand is really silly. But I think it's somewhat became a custom now. If I remember correctly it comes from Shatner, he was a terrible fighter with no training and neither had the will to learn proper fighting. Also the transporters work pretty inconsistent. Sometimes they transfer momentum, sometimes you need 2-3 sec to move after being transported...
When attacking DS9 what was the point of getting so close? Obviously DS9 was pretty much stationary so the Klingons could have engaged at extreme range. I remember watching the episode and being surprised at how many heavier Klingon ships {such as the Vor'Cha & K'Tinga class} were just getting shredded.
I'm curious how the Klingons can take out the shield generators if the shields are still on. I mean, arent the shield generators protected by, you know, the shields?
Bleedthrough damage is a factor, as we have seen time and time again on Trek. (Exploding console syndrome) Concentrated fire on a single section of a shielded target can cause considerable damage if the volume of fire can be maintained. Incidentally, targeting the shield generators of a ship or station isn't a slam dunk tactic, but is actually quite risky. As you would figure, the shield generators are one of the hardest things to damage when the shields are up, and while you're trying to penetrate those, you are not targeting weapons, sensors, or engines. Gowron ordered a shield generator strike because it was clear he would not win a battle of attrition with DS9 using regular tactics.
I was a little disappointed with the episode once it came to the Klingons during the boarding. The writers seemed to forget that Klingons are about as strong as a human of twice their mass on average. Non-Klingons hit by a Klingon should have gone flying. That is like a heavyweight boxer doing a full-force hook into a typical non-fighter.
Random question: wasn't the Miranda an "escort" vessel? It was the only 23rd century ship with GIANT FREAKIN' PHASER CANNONS. So the whole escort = warship is kind of a canon thing even before the Defiant. The Miranda beat the crap out of the E-A one-on-one.
The only Miranda to have a 'giant phaser cannon' would have been the Soyuz variant. it had the rollbar torpedo launcher replaced with a relatively heavy phaser. being a 'peacekeeping armada' none of the federation ships are officially classified as an escort/ true warship until the defiant and suchlike.(akira, prometheus and even they were classed as heavy cruisers) but a lot of the ships filled that sort of role, providing support to thee bigger ships.
The Miranda was classified as a heavy frigate during the TMP era. It had greater firepower and maneuverability compared with a Constitution, at the expense of versatility and effective mission range. It couldn't really be considered an "escort vessel" since it was designed to handle a wide range of missions on its own, and could be deployed over extended periods.
i guess the defiant just sat there at the station(and didn't get blown to hell) twiddling it's thumbs during the battle. yea it's inferred that it flew away and cloaked but they should have shown it or said something.
You are mistaking the Galaxy Class for the Defiant. The Defiant is a stupidly hard to hit or hurt especially after upgrades and when they finally had to get a new one. The Galaxy Class can't take a hit to save its life.
The disdain for starfleets continued use of Oberths, I'm sure they were useful for something... the only thing that comes to mind is cannon fodder but still... In all seriousness I hope the other 2 ships were Akiras or First Contact variants of either Galaxys or Nebulas (but lets be honest they were probably Mirandas which is only 1 step above Oberths...)
Maybe the other 2 ship were the only 2 soveringe class ships the uss sovergine herself and the uss enterprise e given the fact that both ships were totally new in 2372 and both were still in testing phase paticularly the weapon system and shields system and engines. And emancy proticall systems. As for the 2 oberth in task force hold back the klingons i would called special project of tue path finder nova class and defiant class upgrades or even the akira norway saber and sovererien class and uss venture galaxy upgrade spect. I do recall tue enterprise in the older film of star trek tng to have the phassr boxes added before the hd upgrade to the galaxy class nacelles
@@captianjessie1 If one of the ships was a Sov, it would have been the flagship of the fleet, and hence the line would have been 'led by the Sovereign/Ent-E'. No fleet admiral is going to be riding into battle aboard a Galaxy with a Sov as wingman......
Good video, like your stuff. But you've GOT to check your pronunciation of the in-universe terms. Galor and Prakesh were both clearly pronounced differently during the episode; and in other vids, there's been some mishandling of ship classes and individual names. Again, for the most part this is good stuff, but the name being pronounced differently than the dozen times many of us have heard it really breaks the vibe. Keep up the good work, and happy birthday!
Eh, I make attempts to say them right and even watch the episodes.. I read the names the way I read the names. I'll state that I'll make an attempt to be more accurate but unfortunately it's an apparent idiosyncrasy of mine.
Sorry, but Sulu didn't mess with a K'tinga one on one with an Excelsior. Even when his ship was in a brinkmanship situation (and this superior due to the x3 advantage) he didn't go there.
Lore Reloaded Sulu and Kor had a face off during the khitomer incident. Sulu bested him. If the K'tinga was so superior it surely would have taken the Excelsior out.
Are you talking about the voyager episode (If so its Kang)? Which is just awesome on keeping things consistent ;P This was pulled from resources from the movies and such. In the voyager episode - I don't see any specific fight between the two ships - do you have a specific time stamp or series wher eit occurs?
7:03 I always presumed that the Defiant used its tractor beam more to deflect incoming fire than holding the Vor'cha in place. More akin to a cheap repulsor beam.
Huh, shocked a relatively ancient K'Tingha class could do warp 9.6?? That's the same as a Galaxy class. Seems wrong to me🤔 Also Galor listed as being warp 9.6. Am sure they were supposed to be generally slower than federation ships (the Cardassians were initially and often presented as being slightly behind the federation in tech). So having the Galor match a Galaxt again seems wrong? Love the channel so hope you don't think I'm being funny and Am guessing you've used cannon sources. Guess it's probably typical Star Trek inconsistency!
+olympicnut It's my understanding it does.. Am I incorrect on that? Shields are specifically designed to block both energy and projectiles..it was actually because of this the borg grabbing the enterprise was a big deal
Think it's just a matter of frequency modulation if u can match the tractor beam to the ships shields frequency it should not matter also is this not similar to what archer did with the grappler
+Lore Reloaded if the tractor beam matches the shield's frequency why wouldn't it be able to grab it? Besides, that's not what the defiant did. They used the tractor beam as some kind force to push disruptor shots away from the ship, it's not grabbing onto anything. The klingon ship is free to move, it even closed to point blank range to shot at the defiant.
Deep space 9 wasn't built for the purpose of the Cardassian occupation. It was built as a mining station. It never had any importance during the Cardassian occupation. It was just a run down labor camp in space.
I caught that jab at DSC. while i wont disagree it didnt feel like that line should have been in there. It took something away from the ton of the video up to that point.
Don't get me wrong I loved the video and DSC obviously has its issues but since we are in the early bit of its run I don't think its fair to either program for comments like that.
Star Trek really doesn't do numbers right at all. Not a single one of these space fleets would realistically have few than 1000 combat capably vessels at anyone time.
Fleet strength: 1 Negh'var 6 Vor'chas 11 K't'ingas 34 BOPs Total 52 ships. Blown up by DS9, everyone onboard toasted: 2 Vor'chas 1 K't'inga 9 BOPs Total 12 ships lost with all crew. Ship counts in ST fleets are pretty meaningless - the biggest example is probably when Starfleet mustered around 'a thousand starships' to engage the Dominion in the retaking of DS9 battle, but around 800 of those 'starships' were Peregrine fighters.....
Sisko’s dad pointed out a flaw in blood test methodology. The changeling could simply keep real blood from someone they killed inside them, and ‘release it’ during blood tests.
I never understood the blood tests. They had a way to destabilize the changelings shape shifting abilities at that point. Why didn’t they just do that or cut off a small chuck of skin it was easily healed afterwards. The blood tests were easily manipulated from the beginning and honestly seemed like a bull shit test.
Which Enterprise had the more disgraceful showing in a one-on-one fight with a bird of prey one tenth it's size - Kirk's ship in the Search for Spock, or PIcard's ship in Generations? Both easily defeated by tiny ships. Come to think of it, a single bird of prey also had the Enterprise on the ropes in Star Trek V the Final Frontier. Boy these Enterprise ships got exposed as paper tigers by the smallest ships in the Klingon fleet.
okay, now that's bugging me. 9:13 you repeat the exact same sentence, it actually sounds like you put the exact same recording twice. This happens in a majority of your videos I have watched in the last few weeks, so... what's up with that? It's kinda annoying, are you able to change that? Is it intentional?
True. But it can also refer to a harbour. The original old English word (from old norse) meant "harbour". So... hopefully safe but not always. For some reason Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 comes to mind. But... perhaps safe haven adds a little extra emphasis. You could say "each" or "every" but "each and every individual" (for example) sounds more emphatic.
Vamu Darcho Jandreoski Skizzava vika od Staat England Army Okean Atom Raketi od 1971 godina bile Drva za gorejne ne bile Okean Atom Raketi taka kazuva Skizzava od Darcho Jandreoski
Sorry, but for me this battle sounds like a cheap steal from the Babylon 5 "Severed Dreams" episode... just with federation ships instead of minbari ships.
Sisko - "Admiral Hastur we need reinforcements!"
Hastur - "Don't worry captain. Reinforcements are on their way! The task force will soon arrive consisting of one Galaxy, 2 Excelsior, a Miranda and....and....2...other....ships."
Sisko - "...."
Hastur - "...."
Sisko - "You're sending me some Oberth class again, don't you?"
Hast - "Well good luck captain. Hastur out!"
hah, laughed so hard you have the distinction of getting the first comment not to be mine that was pinned ;)
Lore Reloaded - I wonder what it would take to refit an Oberth into what could best be called a 'Lethal Joke Character'? It's not really built for combat, but if history has shown us anything, it's that otherwise innocuous objects can be absolutely devastating with the right mods, and in the right hands. (So, in this context, under Sisko's command.)
it would take lots more phaser x's and lot of missiles
Remote Control Oberth ships to be warp speed ramming ships, will they be useful then? :)
If you need something blown up, Oberths are the best at it.
Garak: "I find this hand to hand combat really quite distasteful!"
Dukat: "I Suppose you prefer the simplicity of an interrogation chamber" *grunts fighting off 2 Klingons!*
Garak: "You have to admit, its much more civilised!"
Small scene but my favourite during the battle! :)
You know what would be hilarious, if starfleet refitted one Oberth class ship with some serious tech. Primary and secondary shielding. Ablative armor, quantum torpedoes and type 11 or 12 phasers. But only just Oberth class ship...just one. I would love to see the poor bird of prey or jem'hadar attack ship that went for it thinking it was easy prey like the rest of its class. Kinda like a Miranda class with functioning shields...
Why send an entire task force to help DS9, you can just send one Oberth class, those ships can one shot a Borg cube, and they are the single reason the Federation and allies won the Dominion war
Hehehe, lolz.
Turns out it's a Mk.12 Super-Oberth with Regenerative Shields, Cloaking, all the labs replaced with shield generators and/or phaser cannon generators, a secondary deflector (if one deflector is magical, two is just plain evil), and is commanded by a clone of Benjamin Sisko.
...Sucks to be the Klingon attack force, huh?
Honestly by the end of the Dominion war and shortly after the Defiant, Sovereign, Akira, Promethean, Intrepid and Luna class ships were all war ships with other titles.
And for those of you asking why a long range explorer class like the Luna would be a war ship. Think about this: the Luna upon launch had the most advanced shields and sensors. These advancements would prompt retrofits to every other class on this list.
They had the same number of the same type of phasers as the Sovereign class ship, which was just over 3 times the size of the Luna. Additionally the Luna was the first class of ship to start carrying Hellfire torpedoes.
Hellfire torpedoes create a thermal effect when they collided with shields that would cause the shields to burn holes in the hull.
The torpedoes are extremely difficult to build as it was tech that USD Titan got from a Beta Quadrant species they helped. That species used a unknown element that was specific to the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant.
Despite this the Akira and Sovereign class ships would start carrying the same 3 torpedoes that the Luna carried.
Also remember we are talking about Commander Xin Ra'havari's Luna class, not the Kirk era Luna class.
Martok, "They fight like Klingons!" Gowron. "Then they can DIE like Klingons!"
The modified tractor beam that the Defiant deployed against the Vor'cha attack crusier was not intended to hold the Klingon ship but rather scramble its forward disruptor cannon --- which it did for a short while.
Happy early birthday! Hope you hit 10,000 soon!
+Bean 41 Thanks
Lore Reloaded also Sisko used the tractor beam to disrupt the Klingon weapons and that is why you see the weapon fire going absolutely everywhere other than to the defiant. Not to lock on and hold the ship.
Sure, but the field also clearly holds it in place - you can see as the defiant turns.. the ship is held there to.4
Lore Reloaded I think that is do to camera distortion. But I can see that a little.
sure, could be just me.. others have said they disagree and don't think it was held to - so possibly.
You know... All the jokes about Oberths. I just thought of how to make them somewhat good in a battle. Ablative Hull and maximum sensor systems.
They could be used as "Spotters" and have crews trained to spot cloaked ships and relay extra targeting and other information to their allies.
that's probably what they wanted it to be, but it was just to weak..
Sorr6, just saw this post.
Spaceborne Warning and Control. It's honestly not a horrible idea given Trek's technology. Outfit them with all the sensor tech you don't have space for on a front-line ship, give them the computing capacity to process and interpret the data, and sit them back behind the lines to warn the combatants about any incoming threats. Would also be a great place for an admiral, so long as one provided it with proper escort.
@@victorgigante5374 why not put an admiral on a runabout? Runabouts are tougher than Oberths. Oberths are made of Explodium.
@Luscious Luchs On the one hand, yeah, runabouts can take hits far better than Oberths. But on the other hand, the entire point is to not let the enemy get within shooting range of your SWACS ships. Hence the escorts, which would hopefully have enough firepower and mobility to blow anything that gets through the front line out of the sky before it can attack the Oberth. And ideally, the admiral in question would have a far better picture of the battlefield thanks to the sensor and computing equipment.
I subscribed because you owned up to repeating the shield thing
"I'm sure they were Oberth" LOL must suck to go in to a battle wishing you were at least on a Miranda...
The moral of the story: Never attack a space station in Star Trek. Just don't do it unless you can honestly afford it.
Like a good castle, it's better to go around it or besiege it than to assault it.
Moral of the story is to have some kind of very long range bombardment/siege weapon on your biggest ships that allows you to attack a space station from outside of normal photon torpedo and phaser range, allowing you to pound the station from afar without receiving devastating return fire. That shouldn't be too hard if the civilization has half a brain since the target is a huge space station that can't do evasive maneuvers. I guess I can't bang on the Klingons too hard for this since the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons combined never learned this lesson, which would have been a big help fighting the Cardassian orbital weapon platforms instead of the idiotic plan to just charge the allied fleet right into the teeth of the enemy defense.
DocWolph because DS9 is the most fucking overpowered space station in Star Trek. There’s so many god damn torpedo turrets and phaser turrets. Jesus Christ its Jason bor- oh wait wrong franchise.
Yeah... this bothers me. As we know from Mass Effect, firing a weapon in space WILL ruin someones day, somewhere, someday. So why can you line up two fleets and not bombard from range? They are basically using ship of the line tactics in the era of cruise missiles.
+DocWolph
Or unless you have a giant space dildo thats looking to make contact with a species of extinct whale.
Something to consider: DS9 was a refitted mining station, from a species whose technology was both inferior and often incompatible to the Federation. Not a top of the line Feddie defensive station or a Klingon battle station.
But despite being a giant kitbash of a mining platform, DS9 both ripped up the Klingons and the Dominion in battle, costing both forces far more than it lost.
Were there any 'Feddie defensive station or a Klingon battle station' shown in canon? AFAIK neither faction possessed powerful 'battle stations', their stations were build with other primary uses, mainly the maintenance of starships.
Orbital weapons platforms however, were used by all sides, and did have the ability to schredd whole fleets. DS9s modifications probably made it the best defended station in the quadrant....
The mighty Oberths!
may they forever keep us strong!
Deep Space Nine is my favorite Star Trek series.
its the best
HAPPY EARLY BIRTHDAY! More star trek breakdowns please! I love how you format it all.
Most break downs are community votes - Which are done sometime on saturday (you can hit the notification tab or just check the community tab at some point on a Saturday (US CST time) - And vote! :) That said, I don't ever intend to stop - so you'll see more. I'll definetly do break downs of every star trek scenario there is..till I die or they stop..which ever happens first.. Thanks!
Lore Reloaded Just hit the bell icon! You've sold me on it ^_^
You kinda said the same thing twice at around 9:12. Other than that great video, you should keep up the battle breakdowns.
Not the first editting gaffe.. not the last either i am sure ;P
Sisko: We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!
siskhill
while he was home sipping coffee, good ol churchee
For me the prime directive only held for species that where out of the loop because in next generation I believe that they had a bejoren on the crew and in addition if they could be allowed to join the federation then it would to me seem like they were in the loop (loop meaning in the know)
The Bajorans, like any other non Fed citizens could still join Starfleet if a captain or above recommended them. Worf is kind of an exception here but the rule is universal.
The Prime Directive applies in two ways: non-warp civilizations and internal matters of any world. By this time the Bajorans were warp capable and were in contact with the Federation, so the PD would not apply here. The internal matters would be the politics between the various leaders and factions as well as Bajor's relationship with other worlds. Sisko rushed to prevent Bajor from joining the Feds to prevent both the Dominion and Fed/Klingons disturbing them
Klingons did learn a valuable lesson in going head to head with Bajorans.
As the Dominion said. they fight well... for a spiritual people.
I see what you did there..
I would go along with classifying the Defiant class as an escort ship rather than a battleship. It is supposed to be a small scout sized ship with minimal crew. As powerful as it is it lacks the crew capacity and scale to be really called a battleship. In terms of a navy it would be equivalent to an attack submarine. A specialist in sneak attacks with a small crew that can take out ships of far greater size given the right situation but not built to go toe to toe over a long battle.
When I was watching season 3 of DS9 on TV, I noticed that the captain said you wanted to ship that didn't have any family could be the use of any kind he only wanted to ship for one purpose to fight. Anyway, the defiant only has three Basic Essentials they are: rooms for crew, a small docotors office, and a medium-sized cafeteria.
Don't laugh at the slingshot effect - gravity assist, as it's normally called, is why our probes can reach Pluto in several years rather than several decades. Hell, thanks to gravity assist Voyager 1 reached interstellar space in just 40 years - it's currently flying at an absolutely stupid speed of 18km/s.
I have to wonder how Sisko managed to keep his posting. He effectively opened the gates to the Alpha quadrant for the Dominion which was a prelude to the most prolong war they've ever had, essentially reignited the Klingon Federation conflict, used terror tactics in dealing with the Maquis, threw out the rule book and co-operate in a conspiracy to get the Romulans involved in the war...
The man did the right thing here yes, but at what cost? Aside from the temporal ashtazi, no one seemed to have ever grilled Sisko for answers.
Happy birthday!
"The Defiant would use it's tractor beam to hold the Vor'cha class cruiser in place". Go rewatch the episode, that's not what happened. The Defiant needed to drop shields to beam the Cardassians aboard, so they used their tractor beam (set to push, not pull) to deflect the disruptor fire coming from the cruiser. That's why the cruiser's shields being up didn't matter. the cruiser wasn't the target of the tractor beam, the disruptor fire coming from the cruiser was the target.
Not till the sixth but thank you! :) I have seen the episode a few times and .. It still looks like its grabbed to me.. I don't know..
Lore Reloaded the tractors purpose was to disrupt its targeting array. It was a cone effect covering the front of the vor'cha. The vor'cha still wished to maintain its superior position behind the defiant and thus appeared to be dragged. I imagine they were trying to find a way to overcome the effect of the modulated tractor beam.
Lieutenant Commander Worf Suggestion to modulate The Tractor Beam which reduced The Klingon's Disruptor Fire Effectiveness by Fifty Percent. Mr. Worf had resigned his Starfleet Command Commission of Lieutenant and briefly served with The Klingon Defense Force initially as Weapons Officer on board The Vor'cha Class Attack Cruiser IKS Bortas during The Klingon Civil War later transferring to his brother Captain Kurn's Command The Bird of Prey IKS Hegh'ta.
“ Bajoran forces “. Lol.
I mean, even if it's two guys and a humvee.. it's the technical definition of a force ;P
Dont be silly, the Bajorans didn't have a humvee
I love the effects of DS9 it had style and it was not some CGI bore fest
the explosions the effects ... juts made battles feel so good
Lore just watched Orville Lamar = geordi laforge from the con to Lt. Com head of engineering
Unlike discovery :-)
Awesome break down of the battle. I was wondering why you sometimes repeat yourself ?
I will do a take about 2-3 times.. and then edit out the ones I don't like..sometimes (though rarer and rarer - thank god) - two takes will get through.
The _Defiant_ was designed for one purpose, to fight the Borg. But the Queen was eating it for lunch in Act I of _First Contact._
The Defiant was designed as a support ship and classed as an escort. It was built to supplement ships like the Akira-Class in battle with the Borg.
It was probably designed to hunt in packs, too. Remember that the Federation used picket lines against the cube; defend to delay, engage, retreat. The defiant fought at every picket line and managed to survive until the final minutes of the engagement. That was hours and hours of battling on the fly and the engagement at Earth.
The Defiant fought at multiple perimeters. It was one of the first ships to engage the Borg, and the fact that it was still functional up until the Enterprise arrived is a testament to its durability.
And the Dominion slapped it around ON ITS FIRST MISSION EVER.
@@TrackerNeil Agreed, and they made the mistake of letting it and its crew live.
The Neg'Var class you show in the ship summary is the Mirror Universe variant, that was FAR larger than the normal universe version, which was only slightly larger than the Vor'cha. You can see them together in some of the battle footage.
I'll take a look. I didn't know it was 'far larger' but it was the only really good footage I could find and th us used - i'll remember that in other break downs.
Comparison of the Neg'Var and the Vor'Cha: www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/neghvar.htm
@7:14 the disrupter beam was defused by the tractor beam and rendered less effective. It was a weakness worf knew about. "I have an idea"
"I'm sure they were Oberths"
Truer words were never spoken.
Happy Birthday! Great channel.
I think the idea that Martok was a changeling at this time is a bit retcon. He cut his hand and bled at the beginning of the epIsolde. Maybe he was replaced during this episode. I dunno.i also found it very strange that they docked the defiant to fight this battle. Call me ignorant, but I think, given a siege by a massive Klingon fleet, you’d want your best military asset involved.
This is actually explained in the episode paradise lost. They explain how changelings could keep blood in them and then let it drop out when asked in order to bypass security measures.
@@LoreReloaded A fair point. But in Paradise lost, that fact is presented as supposition rather than proven fact. It also always seemed to me that the implication was they could fool a blood screening by somehow using the sample method or technology used by Federation and Klingon doctors as the means of fooling it, rather than carrying pools of blood around in them and can, at will, spurt it out making it look so perfectly like a knife cut. Mind you, every time we see a changeling alter it's shape, there's an accompanying sound effect that wasn't present during the meeting with Martok. This is just supposition on my part to be sure, but as it's never conclusively said, it just feels kind of like a retcon to me.
It felt to me, and still does, that the idea of implying Martok in Way of the Warrior was a changeling was done after the fact for In Pergatory's Shadow because J G Hertzler was a good actor that people liked on screen, and he pulled off a Klingon well. The writers wanted him back in the cast so made it up for that script. Though, I could absolutely be wrong about that. Like how Lorerunner says that Bashir being genetically modified was a retcon, but it unintentionally makes sense in a lot of scenes (before the revelation) upon re-watching, however unintentionally.
Happy Birthday and well done on the breakdown just one improvement maybe a little more about the hand to hand combat and fire that took place inside DS9 .
Not the first time I've gotten that criticism.. I'm going to start focusing on ground combat - I may even come back and do a 'First battle of DS9 (Ground Combat)'
Lore Reloaded that would be really awesome as i feel there is alot in that combat thats not really been delved into much.
To be fair, the only *real* issue in Discovery when it came to the Klingons was the insane amount of mediocrity and stupidity on their part, and the 10 full plates of plot armor Sonequa Martin-Green brought with her to make up for not having any when she was on The Walking Dead. "Vulcan martial arts" or not, she is no Sisko, Kira, or Dax when it comes to fighting hand-to-hand. I wouldn't even rate her as high as O'Brien, and he got knocked down in this fight and had to be saved by Worf despite being a grizzled old NCO.
Do a star ship analysis for the excelsior class...I often wonder how that one stayed in service for so long.
If i was sisko i would of either targeted all weapong fired on the neg'var or ask word for suggestion of ds9 weapon platform patterns to fire of just go after the neg'var otself. At it was ds9 in it first volley destroyed 8 klingon ship amd damaged several klingon ship heavy.
Dude I love your Oberith jokes!
Having adjusted your ship breakdowns to not include the shield info every time was great to see. Also it seems to me that in the ground combat the Klingons sometimes just stand there and take the hit a bit too much. That's the only thing about the ground fights in star trek that is annoying to me at least, I'm in no way a expert on fighting.
Indeed.. but I always have stuff to fix so.. I don't think I'll ever have something I am one hundred percent on. I am going to start doing more ground combat break down.. On that note, you ever notice that in all of startrek they have like only 3 moves total?
yep
Star Trek hand to hand is really silly. But I think it's somewhat became a custom now. If I remember correctly it comes from Shatner, he was a terrible fighter with no training and neither had the will to learn proper fighting. Also the transporters work pretty inconsistent. Sometimes they transfer momentum, sometimes you need 2-3 sec to move after being transported...
When attacking DS9 what was the point of getting so close? Obviously DS9 was pretty much stationary so the Klingons could have engaged at extreme range. I remember watching the episode and being surprised at how many heavier Klingon ships {such as the Vor'Cha & K'Tinga class} were just getting shredded.
Happy incoming Birthday =3
Happy early birthday! It's a good week for birthdays; mine is the 7th. :)
Happy birthday!
Mine is the 7th, cool.
The Oberth is what you get for graduating Starfleet Command Training with a 2.5 GPA.
The defiant used a modulated tractor beam to deflect the vorchas weapon not hold the ship
You forgot the twin giant disruptors on the Nagvar.
I think they are apart of the many disruptors i point out.
HAPPY EARLY BIRTHDAY!
thanks!
I'm curious how the Klingons can take out the shield generators if the shields are still on. I mean, arent the shield generators protected by, you know, the shields?
Bleedthrough damage is a factor, as we have seen time and time again on Trek. (Exploding console syndrome) Concentrated fire on a single section of a shielded target can cause considerable damage if the volume of fire can be maintained. Incidentally, targeting the shield generators of a ship or station isn't a slam dunk tactic, but is actually quite risky. As you would figure, the shield generators are one of the hardest things to damage when the shields are up, and while you're trying to penetrate those, you are not targeting weapons, sensors, or engines. Gowron ordered a shield generator strike because it was clear he would not win a battle of attrition with DS9 using regular tactics.
the defiant used the tractor beam to push the nose up on the vorcha not hold it .
I was a little disappointed with the episode once it came to the Klingons during the boarding. The writers seemed to forget that Klingons are about as strong as a human of twice their mass on average. Non-Klingons hit by a Klingon should have gone flying. That is like a heavyweight boxer doing a full-force hook into a typical non-fighter.
They should have done the battle they talked about when the Klingons boarded the 2 starships. They caused mayhem and many deaths.
Random question: wasn't the Miranda an "escort" vessel? It was the only 23rd century ship with GIANT FREAKIN' PHASER CANNONS. So the whole escort = warship is kind of a canon thing even before the Defiant. The Miranda beat the crap out of the E-A one-on-one.
The only Miranda to have a 'giant phaser cannon' would have been the Soyuz variant. it had the rollbar torpedo launcher replaced with a relatively heavy phaser.
being a 'peacekeeping armada' none of the federation ships are officially classified as an escort/ true warship until the defiant and suchlike.(akira, prometheus and even they were classed as heavy cruisers) but a lot of the ships filled that sort of role, providing support to thee bigger ships.
Jamie Slingsby I thought that the rollbar pylons had large phaser cannons which were more powerful than the ball turret phasers mounted on the saucer.
The Miranda was classified as a heavy frigate during the TMP era. It had greater firepower and maneuverability compared with a Constitution, at the expense of versatility and effective mission range. It couldn't really be considered an "escort vessel" since it was designed to handle a wide range of missions on its own, and could be deployed over extended periods.
The Defiant only has 2 quantum tropedo launchers.
Ok.
Happy birthday from Germany!
Was there a glitch in the matrix at 9:20 or something?
Any reason the video clip portion couldn't be made full screen?
+zxKAOS1 CBS
i guess the defiant just sat there at the station(and didn't get blown to hell) twiddling it's thumbs during the battle. yea it's inferred that it flew away and cloaked but they should have shown it or said something.
I wondered the very same. The Defiant definately would have been a Klingon target, at least damaged in dock with DS-9.
A glass cannon like the defiant should have been seriously damaged.
You are mistaking the Galaxy Class for the Defiant. The Defiant is a stupidly hard to hit or hurt especially after upgrades and when they finally had to get a new one. The Galaxy Class can't take a hit to save its life.
The Defiant was upgraded with ablative armor, it is definitely NOT a glass cannon.
So December 6th is your Birthday? Awesome. Mine is Dec 10. . . :D
The disdain for starfleets continued use of Oberths, I'm sure they were useful for something... the only thing that comes to mind is cannon fodder but still...
In all seriousness I hope the other 2 ships were Akiras or First Contact variants of either Galaxys or Nebulas (but lets be honest they were probably Mirandas which is only 1 step above Oberths...)
Maybe one of them was Nebula class, after all its combat scenario were talking...?
Maybe the other 2 ship were the only 2 soveringe class ships the uss sovergine herself and the uss enterprise e given the fact that both ships were totally new in 2372 and both were still in testing phase paticularly the weapon system and shields system and engines. And emancy proticall systems. As for the 2 oberth in task force hold back the klingons i would called special project of tue path finder nova class and defiant class upgrades or even the akira norway saber and sovererien class and uss venture galaxy upgrade spect. I do recall tue enterprise in the older film of star trek tng to have the phassr boxes added before the hd upgrade to the galaxy class nacelles
@@captianjessie1 If one of the ships was a Sov, it would have been the flagship of the fleet, and hence the line would have been 'led by the Sovereign/Ent-E'. No fleet admiral is going to be riding into battle aboard a Galaxy with a Sov as wingman......
Good video, like your stuff. But you've GOT to check your pronunciation of the in-universe terms. Galor and Prakesh were both clearly pronounced differently during the episode; and in other vids, there's been some mishandling of ship classes and individual names. Again, for the most part this is good stuff, but the name being pronounced differently than the dozen times many of us have heard it really breaks the vibe.
Keep up the good work, and happy birthday!
Eh, I make attempts to say them right and even watch the episodes.. I read the names the way I read the names. I'll state that I'll make an attempt to be more accurate but unfortunately it's an apparent idiosyncrasy of mine.
Sorry, but Sulu didn't mess with a K'tinga one on one with an Excelsior. Even when his ship was in a brinkmanship situation (and this superior due to the x3 advantage) he didn't go there.
...Hmm?
Thus the Klingon difficulty slant seems odd
Lore Reloaded Sulu and Kor had a face off during the khitomer incident. Sulu bested him. If the K'tinga was so superior it surely would have taken the Excelsior out.
Are you talking about the voyager episode (If so its Kang)? Which is just awesome on keeping things consistent ;P This was pulled from resources from the movies and such. In the voyager episode - I don't see any specific fight between the two ships - do you have a specific time stamp or series wher eit occurs?
Lore Reloaded hello yeah it was from flashback episode
7:03 I always presumed that the Defiant used its tractor beam more to deflect incoming fire than holding the Vor'cha in place. More akin to a cheap repulsor beam.
That has been the contention but unfortunately we never get a complete picture on what was attempted
Defiant
Huh, shocked a relatively ancient K'Tingha class could do warp 9.6?? That's the same as a Galaxy class. Seems wrong to me🤔
Also Galor listed as being warp 9.6. Am sure they were supposed to be generally slower than federation ships (the Cardassians were initially and often presented as being slightly behind the federation in tech). So having the Galor match a Galaxt again seems wrong?
Love the channel so hope you don't think I'm being funny and Am guessing you've used cannon sources. Guess it's probably typical Star Trek inconsistency!
You pronounced Galor class wrong
Propoganda
December 6th is my birthday too.
WOOT! Happy late birthday ;)
Having the shields up does not mean a tractor beam is rendered ineffective.
+olympicnut It's my understanding it does.. Am I incorrect on that? Shields are specifically designed to block both energy and projectiles..it was actually because of this the borg grabbing the enterprise was a big deal
Think it's just a matter of frequency modulation if u can match the tractor beam to the ships shields frequency it should not matter also is this not similar to what archer did with the grappler
with the shield's up, a tractor beam can't grab your hall, but it can still grab your shields.
That's not how shields are designed to work though - is my point..
+Lore Reloaded
if the tractor beam matches the shield's frequency why wouldn't it be able to grab it? Besides, that's not what the defiant did. They used the tractor beam as some kind force to push disruptor shots away from the ship, it's not grabbing onto anything. The klingon ship is free to move, it even closed to point blank range to shot at the defiant.
Deep space 9 wasn't built for the purpose of the Cardassian occupation. It was built as a mining station. It never had any importance during the Cardassian occupation. It was just a run down labor camp in space.
+TentaclePentacle It was built by Bajoran Labor and held the administrative overseers of bajor
+Lore Reloaded
oh right It was dukat's office once.
Dollars to donuts it was the main office the entire time, w hich is why i said that - it would only make sense and was very 'cardassian'
yeah it's kind of weird that a mining camp would be the main administrative headquarters for the military occupational government.
PrakEESH.
I caught that jab at DSC. while i wont disagree it didnt feel like that line should have been in there. It took something away from the ton of the video up to that point.
Something I'll consider in the future..
Don't get me wrong I loved the video and DSC obviously has its issues but since we are in the early bit of its run I don't think its fair to either program for comments like that.
Look at the first two seasons of TNG.. if you're going to bash a new show TNG should have been cancelled long before it had a chance to get good. lol
happy bithday :)
Thanks!
if 11 ships is 20% of there fleet wouldn't that mean the total fleet is 50 ships?
+Christopher Garcia Yup
Star Trek really doesn't do numbers right at all. Not a single one of these space fleets would realistically have few than 1000 combat capably vessels at anyone time.
Fleet strength:
1 Negh'var
6 Vor'chas
11 K't'ingas
34 BOPs
Total 52 ships.
Blown up by DS9, everyone onboard toasted:
2 Vor'chas
1 K't'inga
9 BOPs
Total 12 ships lost with all crew.
Ship counts in ST fleets are pretty meaningless - the biggest example is probably when Starfleet mustered around 'a thousand starships' to engage the Dominion in the retaking of DS9 battle, but around 800 of those 'starships' were Peregrine fighters.....
How was Martok a changeling? I thought he did a blood test at the beginning of the Way of the Warrior episode. Happy Birthday Lore!
Sisko’s dad pointed out a flaw in blood test methodology.
The changeling could simply keep real blood from someone they killed inside them, and ‘release it’ during blood tests.
I never understood the blood tests. They had a way to destabilize the changelings shape shifting abilities at that point. Why didn’t they just do that or cut off a small chuck of skin it was easily healed afterwards. The blood tests were easily manipulated from the beginning and honestly seemed like a bull shit test.
Which Enterprise had the more disgraceful showing in a one-on-one fight with a bird of prey one tenth it's size - Kirk's ship in the Search for Spock, or PIcard's ship in Generations? Both easily defeated by tiny ships. Come to think of it, a single bird of prey also had the Enterprise on the ropes in Star Trek V the Final Frontier. Boy these Enterprise ships got exposed as paper tigers by the smallest ships in the Klingon fleet.
Damn Oberths class ships.
hahah, that joke never gets old for me ;) I'm sure its starting to grate for some.
Why do people suddenly repeat themselves in their videos these days? He told us about Martok attacking the shield generators twice.
Could be an editting error?
okay, now that's bugging me. 9:13 you repeat the exact same sentence, it actually sounds like you put the exact same recording twice. This happens in a majority of your videos I have watched in the last few weeks, so... what's up with that? It's kinda annoying, are you able to change that? Is it intentional?
+fabske 1234 Not the majority actually... A small amount has them. Its an editing error that I will watch for in the future..
Ah, good to know. Probably seemed to happen more often than it did, because it is just so... weird and off putting.
I don't like anymore than you brother. I'm going to make a concerted effort to catch it.
Haven=safe place. Why say "safe" haven?
+olympicnut A haven is not always safe and it's just a way it's been said..
True. But it can also refer to a harbour. The original old English word (from old norse) meant "harbour". So... hopefully safe but not always. For some reason Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 comes to mind. But... perhaps safe haven adds a little extra emphasis. You could say "each" or "every" but "each and every individual" (for example) sounds more emphatic.
Why do you pronounce the Cardassian ship and ship class names so weird? PraKeysh? GayLer?
DECEMBER 6TH IS THE INDEPENDENCE DAY OF FINLAND
I hate when people brag about how big their RUclips subscriber base is! It sounds narcissistic to me!
+timelike01 Then stop coming to the videos..don't watch :)
Too many damn commercials!!! Not worth the effort!
waaat
just dl ad block bitch
Please never do this small screen in a screen thing again.
Vamu Darcho Jandreoski Skizzava vika od Staat England Army Okean Atom Raketi od 1971 godina bile Drva za gorejne ne bile Okean Atom Raketi taka kazuva Skizzava od Darcho Jandreoski
hehe gaylord-class
Please stop saying "up to at least" and variants of that, it makes no sense whatsoever
The ships payloads vary based on if the writer knew what it could handle or not so 'up to' is appropriate imo :p
Lore Reloaded “up to” is fine, “at least” is fine, “up to at least” is two opposing statements so makes no sense
Ahh..gotcha
Sorry, but for me this battle sounds like a cheap steal from the Babylon 5 "Severed Dreams" episode... just with federation ships instead of minbari ships.
Why are you so bad at pronouncing the names? :/
To make you comment
Happy birthday!
Ahh thanks ;)