The Shocking Truth about Christian Orthodoxy - John Behr
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2012
- Fr. John Behr takes on those who dismiss Jesus Christ on "historical grounds," by explaining how historicism itself is problematic and, indeed, heretical. The alternative to historicism as our mode of interpretation, he explains, is Christ on the cross as the foundation of all our knowledge and interpretation.
The Very Rev. Dr. John Behr is the Dean of St. Vladimir's Seminary in Crestwood, N.Y., where he is also Professor of Patristics, teaching courses in patristics, dogmatics, and Scriptural exegesis. He also teaches at Fordham University, where he is the Distinguished Lecturer in Patristics.
This lecture was delivered as part of the annual Augustine College Weston Lecture series on March 23rd, 2012.
www.augustinecollege.org/westo...
I was raised and baptized at 12 years old in the Church of Christ. I had heard about the Orthodox Church, but it was not till last December 2015, when I saw an documentary about Jerusalem, that I heard a statement which struck me hard. The Orthodox Church was said the be the church that Christ established. I pondered as how could this be when the Church of Christ was said to be the first church. Nonetheless, lead by the Holy Spirit, I researched my history and compared to discover that while I received a strong foundation from the Church of Christ, that foundation came from the Orthodox faith. With that said, I found an Orthodox Church and now converting to the faith.
God bless you
Bless you; you are an inspiration, and you are beautiful, body and soul... I have the same feeling that Orthodoxy is indeed "correct worship". I sincerely hope to join you in worship someday, God willing.
Having glanced at your channel, I'm curious; what does "arcturian" mean? (I could "Google" it, but I'd rather read a first-hand definition from a real person, does that make sense?)
Blessings to you Yarnell.
+cedonullidude To you as well
Converted to Orthodoxy from Reformed Protestantism in 2014. We found the True Faith!
Glory to God!
i want to be an orthodox too
I also converted from Reformed Baptist to Russian Orthodoxy in 2004. There was and is no other way. May God save you, brother.
That was me also. I had to finally purge my thinking (in 2010) of nearly everything the was associated with Reformed/Protestant doctrine, because it was drenched in Age of Enlightement/Age of Reason theology. I have no regrets!!!
Roger McIntyre Exactly.
I converted to Orthodoxy in 2019, at first it seemed foreing, but then, paradoxicaly. I realized I had come back home. All Glory to Jesus Christ!
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Jesus wasn't a vegetarian he was Jewish so he would eat the passover lamb luke 22:7-8.
I’m Catholic and I love my Orthodox brothers and sisters!
appreciate this, from an indian orthodox.
I saw father John today for real in Durham, England, he radiates a lot of grace. God bless him.
Wonderful and powerful Orthodox Christian teaching here! A great video to watch during Holy Week.
*two weeks before the Holy week:)
Unless you experience it and LIVE it, you can't understand why the orthodox Church is simply the Church, the only one. God is an experience, not a theory.
Well said.
so so true, christianity is experiential as orthodox church understands it; is the passed on experiences/practices of the apostles, and it is a way of thinking, an attiitude, a perspective. It has a specific phronema.
@@SignalsOfVirtueEphesians 2:9 ***not of works, lest anyone should boast****
1John 1:8 ***if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.vs 10 If we say that we have not sinnned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us***
Thank you so much for this! I discovered orthodoxy whilst doing a course on the parallels and differences between it and Buddhism. The same wish to give real love and the desire to overcome hate - within our hearts and in the world- are present in both. Orthodox belief shows me how to be me in Christ and how to allow Christ to be Christ in me . 🙏
Just left the Catholic Church now joining the Orthodox church
I am very interested in the Orthodox Church. My wife, not so much. Prayers are welcomed. Thank you all.
Wonderful summation. Not until Christ announced on the cross "It is finished" did God finish Man. Christ is what it means to be human.
Wonderful Lecture. We need to hear more of this kind of Christian Scholarship.
+Randy Churchill We do indeed ....
Actually if you have been a Protestant all your life everything about Orthodoxy is shocking. I was a Protestant all my life and I started reading books on the Orthodox faith and within a year I found myself converting more and more to the east. Most Protestants don't have a high enough level of curiosity to make the transition. It is not easy to make the journey to the Orthodox Church largely because Orthodox Christians are not that good at communicating their faith to the west. I think that is improving though. I see more and more on the Internet. The first time you go to an Orthodox Church it's like going to the planet Mars. As you begin to understand what the worship is all about you begin to experience the spiritual power and meaning of it. I am no longer a Protestant. But to say that with conviction will take some time and study. If your still trying to figure it out keep digging. It's worth the effort.. .
Randy Churchill Orthodoxy is difficult for the people to take a taste because today's people like the taste of coka cola of porn, quick cars ,different women, and generally of living at this life.When jesus want from us the sacrifice for him and the others,and to stop living for the material world.Ortodoxy teaches to give your blood in order to gain spirit
Argiris Milonas I understand.
John Behr absolutely is a good historian. No use bashing a real scholar.
very true my god be with you all orthodox God bless you ⛪💒
I have met Fr John around 2002. He is a truly extraordinary scholar and a very gentle man.
Mon Dieu, Il est Magnifique!...Illuminé!
Marry me!
@@M-i-k-a-e-l If you be driven by thoughts of romance, make haste
to recognize THAT what might please you, would not
my Lover Henri (Husband), two children & God...
who own my love and affection, as I do theirs.
And think of the others. All those who wait in line for
my hand. Imagine the bitchin' & consternation, spittin'
& stompin' that would issue !?
Gosh Darn Man ! They might even start-up cussin' !
i.imgur.com/rgu4D0X.png
divine inspiration still exists, not all is written, listen to the inner voice of God. The light of Jesus Christ only begotten son of God is within us all. Let is shine through humility and love of each other.
***** God is love. See with the heart, and do with the mind, and you will be doing God's work.
yes.
+Evgnevius
We must give up our own pride, we must deny ourselves, in order to let GOD clean up our hearts of all the passions which are the roots of death !!!
your absolutely correct amigo! Read the scriptures they are our map!
+Evgnevius One could fairly say that their conscience, if they live a holy life, becomes the method of God's communication. I agree with you, but I do believe there can be hints of revelation through that.
The man is highly intelligent and very highly qualified. He is a man worth listening too.
fantastic love this. Would love to become orthodox
Simon Shields
Why not become a Christian by receiving Christ?
Simon Shields The find your nearest Orthodox Church and come. All are welcome.
what do you suppose Holy Baptism is?
William Gill_Esq. Because Jesus left one church. And to feel the full grace of God that can only happen through Orthodoxy.
@@williamgill_esq.6487 Christ established a Church. When He becomes Orthodox, he recieves Christ as a member of His Body.
"What made the Church catholic was that it embraced diversity." A statement for the ages.
What a brilliant man, and a great theologian!
Will Benton The world is stupid because King James with the story of Jesus hid philosophy and what is philosophy but knowing our culture...No one died and saved us from the perversions of our culture CAPITALISM
re-examine that Rx (prescription) friend... u r either way above or well below the recommended dose.
The amount of trouble i got in for asking these questions, only to be seeing teachers treat them so seriously is WILD
We know Jesus lives and we belong to the family of God by the Spirit of Christ in us.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand".
Thank you for these videos! I'm a new inquirer into EO from Catholic SSPX.
read the saints and the church Fathers; they will show you with their lives what it means to be orthodox christian. the orthodox church is about the way of being.we are to acquire the mind of christ so we can be in a love relationship with God the father, son and holy spirit, as we were created to be, until humans decided they wanted to be in charge and be the powerful ones, became prideful.
Western Rite is an option!
I will give you a fact that will move you. Did you know that the holly lights in the tomb of Christ ONLY appears to the Christian Orthodox? that says everything.
I am Roman Catholic of Russian descent. I fully enjoyed this lecture!
WONDERFUL! Thank you for posting this video!
This is a wonderful lecture. Thank you for posting this.
if you want to reach the lost, must you dress like you yourself are?
This is one of the most insightful talks I've ever heard.
Completely in accord with Catholic theology by the way.
The first half of the talk is absolutely devastating to Sola Scriptura.
The second half discusses how John calling Jesus the Logos of God means that Jesus is the very *definition* of what it means to be divine. It also makes clear that our purpose in being on earth is to learn to be a fully divinized human through obedient self-sacrifice. Scripture concurs. Heb 5:8 says of Jesus "And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he *learned obedience* by the things which he suffered." (DRV) If Jesus needed to learn obedience, then how much more do we need to learn the same lesson?
"Orthodox" isn't for those that want a personal relationship with Jesus. It's more for those that like rituals to make them feel religious. And way too Catholic... most of their doctrines are false and so many contradict the Bible.
@@ytmember1 ""Orthodox" isn't for those that want a personal relationship with Jesus. ...." Where did you get this from, this could not be further from the truth???
@@SignalsOfVirtue so you dont know anything about it...
@@SignalsOfVirtue no you are stating what you think is obvious, but could not be further from reality.
@@SignalsOfVirtue well yes, I agree that facts dont care about emotions, but facts are that not a sigle Orthodox or any person that knows most basic things about Orthodoxy would agree with you.
Glad to see that the comment section isn't full of people hating on religion. God bless you all.
This is revelatory! Several salient points that make excellent connections and conclusions that expound the foundational truths of Christianity. This is worthy of seminary quality. Thank you!
Considering the quality of seminary education these days, I would hope it is considerably better than seminary quality.
Remarkable talk. Some beautiful insights I had not heard before.
Pity the audio wasn't the best... Thanks.
Aaahhh...I see now. It seems my interpretation "historicism" was off basis, I apologize. Thank You for
clearing that up, as Well as posting this very commending video! Praise Augustine College!
Thank you!
If Mr. Sudarevic, is truly Orthodox . . . he/we should tell all we know about our faith, and have all join us. In the true faith of Jesus Christ.
I've been migrating toward EO for 42 years. But I'd never wave a flag and call anywhere the one true anything.
The real Jesus, "before Abraham was born I AM"
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
I have believed and prayed to Jesus a far back as my memory goes. My access to Christ wasn't by understanding theology but by the faith of a child. Jesus answered back.
hurray!!! so beautiful for your share
Welcome Yarnell McGee my sister in Christ! With conversion, there is a great responsibility that comes with it. Remember it is a way of life, Holy Apocalypse and not a religion (man made). It is the Church of many martyrs. God bless!
Yes, my brother in Christ, so very true. Our lives are full of much suffering as we resist the passions to perfect ourselves worthy enough to earn the crown of eternal life and enter the Kingdom of God! I read daily, "The Lives of the Saints", which gives me strength and encouragement through my struggles. God Bless.
This claim by the Father that catholicism is toleration and diversity and heresy is intolerance is absolutely bizarre. It's just declaring black is white and white is black. He then has the nerve to marvel at how so many people think white is white and black is black. This guy is introduced as the greatest Orthodox theologian in the western hemisphere, and then he just gives us secular progressivism. This is what we get from the leftists who insist that men can be women and women can be men, that everyone will be better off if we raise taxes, that humans are hairless apes, and other such nonsense while they ridicule people of faith who hold to self evident reality.
The church councils would decide between two sides of an issue, and then declare whoever believed in the other side was condemned. It's beyond twisted to try to claim that they were the tolerant ones and the people they were excommunicating where the intolerant ones. I'm deeply disappointed to hear this trash coming from someone described as a brilliant theologian. This is nothing but secular progressive style gaslighting being shoved on the faithful.
And it's not that I misunderstand him - I get what he's trying to convince us of - that Marcian, in not accepting the consensus of the church, was the one attempting to impose his minority view on the majority, but the view is upside down. It's victim blaming. You can say the rape victim invited being raped by their behavior or dress and that is a logically understandable position while at the same time being wrong and morally reprehensible. That is clearly what is going on here - demonizing people who think for themselves as responsible for the intolerance and persecution that results from them voicing their opinions. Saying Marcian is to blame for separating himself from the church is just ignoring the fact that he separated himself because staying would have required him to stop thinking for himself. Father Behr tries to portray it as the church politely listening to him and then him leaving out of intransigence, which is like blaming someone who was assaulted for being in the position of being assaulted. Marcian left because he was told to change his thoughts, not because he refused to accept others disagreeing with him.
This is frankly brilliant, an absolute tour de force.
i do not know your religious affiliations, and it is not my business to ask. if you are protestant, however, i would ask you to consider this somewhat funny statement 'protestants believe every single christian is infallible except the pope'.
I pray constantly for Christian unity. That´s what our Lord wanted when he prayed "that they all be ONE." It´s the only way the world will believe. I think the Orthodox churches and the Roman Catholic church should lead the way.
only one true original christianity that is orthodoxy
Sadly people celebrate Luther and the reformation - the result which was over 12,000,000 deaths due to religious wars and now there are over 41,000 protestant denominations today. So sad
Christian unity can be achieved if we love one another in Christ in spite of our differences. We all agree on 90% of the doctrines anyway. I see myself as a Believer first, a Baptist second and Ecumenical third. If we all put the point of being a Believer first the secondary division can be overlooked. Jesus said that where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in their midst. Also, when the disciples rebuked a man for teaching in Jesus' name because he was not a member of their group Jesus replied that those who are not against us are for us and to let the man continue to teach in his name.
NIck Doe, how can you say that. Luther's movement was from God, and he led true believers out of the great harlot, which is the Catholic Church. It was the Catholic Church that murdered all those saints... millions of them. I fear you have learned propaganda. Also, Jesus said he has come to bring division, not unity.
Nakis Peninta -- "correct faith" as in correct doctrine is not going to save you, or anyone. This is a deception. Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can save you... wash away your sins!
To become perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect, is to give of yourself selflessly and in the great pleasure and joy the Father showed to the prodigal son.Give of yourself selflessly,in love of mankind and the joy and pleasure of giving gives us the uttermost spiritual satisfaction.I do know how this feels.If it is from your own need,as the widow's mite,as she was exaulted by the Christ, the spiritual reward is exceedingly wonderful.Our Father's Command is Life Eternal,his Good Pleasure
I really enjoyed this talk.
"Greeks [don't] have a problem with them," it was two Greek brothers, Sts. Cyrill and Methodios, sent by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, St. Photios the Great, to proclaim the message of Jesus Christ and His Holy Church to the Slavs in Moravia, and they created a written language for them, "Cyrillic," which is the alphabet of the Russians, Ukrainians, Serbians, and others in nations of Orthodox Christians, and translated Divine Services of the Church, and one of the Gospels.
Let me shed some light, St. Cyrill and Methodios created the Glagolic alphabet, later on their bulgarian students created the "Cyrillic" alphabet in Bulgaria. The bulgarian czar gave the order for the creation and paid for the job. After it was spread around.
I am Greek and u are right.
Give us the truth of the gospel and we can have all the unity you want but without that you can't have any unity. You must be converted. you must repent. you must be born again
sammy strain What makes you think Dr. Behr isn't?
***** i cant even fathom how many people went to hell due to the perverse protestant insta-saved teachings. without trying to come to the likeness of God. sure if they were pure and ignorant, the punishment would be lighter but still its deadly. evagelicalism is one of the most dead and dangerous christian teachings ive seen.
[cont 1] listen to reason, refuse to reject heresy, and go on to spread said heresy, should and must be excluded, for the good of all, themselves included. They are not excluded out of hatred, but love. We seek to prevent them from leading others astray - which constitutes a grave sin. We also seek to ensure the Truth remains amongst us - not because we see the Truth as fragile, but because we may fall away from it. [cont 2]
Listening to this I feel as though I never really heard the Gospel before!
Is there a transcript of this talk somewhere?
I was really liking this piece until I read the comments; this is not an apologetics video for Eastern Orthodoxy. It's not. He begins, and throughout, makes reference to Kostenberger and Kruger's "Heresy of Orthodoxy" for a reason, and it's not simply because of a provocative title. What he says, the Patristic sources, the Church Councils he appeals to, are in no way exclusive or particular to Eastern Orthodoxy - nor *excluded by*, say, the two dozen Catholic Churches and many-thousand-odd Protestant denominations - it's common to Classical Christianity, and even most Protestant denominations (of which the authors of the book are members). I'm confident the authors would appreciate this piece, and not think themselves less Christian for not being Eastern Orthodox or Catholic (whether they should or not).
Christ , like Socrates, wrote nothing. People wrote about Christ.
And like Socrates we learned what he taught and did because of people who wrote about him.
Agreed
Beautiful! God bless you!
Fabulous!
@9:27"its a fact that our only access to Christ is through interpretation". I'm perplexed. How about living experience of Christ?
You are able to have a living experience through Christ because someone translated the Greek into English for you and interpreted its context. What is it that you fail to understand about this?!?!?!
Greek is my first language. Are you suggesting that if noone had interpreted the writtings of the Apostoles then noone would have experienced his presence?
GraduadoFigo
No, I am saying that it is impossible for MOST PEOPLE to know anything about the New Testament without trusting someone to translate it for them. Even if the person being taught is being taught using icons, that person was taught by someone who was taught by someone who was taught by someone who had the original languages translated so that they can understand the teachings (whether it be directly from the New Testament, or even icons).
So the point is, MOST PEOPLE rely on interpretation for their understanding of Christ and the Gospels. I AM DEFINITELY ONE OF THEM AND HAVE NO PROBLEM ADMITTING IT.
***** What language was the New Testament originally written in?
THAT'S MY FRIEND'S DAD
Nicolas Eccles He is, or was, also the little boy I used to read to. Even then, he showed a remarkable capacity to see the wood despite the trees. This talk is brilliant!
said Peter about God.
at 51 mins on are some great points. "There is no surplus of divinity existing someplace else attainable by some other means." Great line.
Christ Has Risen. ❤️☦️
Well I understand on the day of Judgement God will not ask which costume party you belonged to but "How well have you loved one another"? Amen.
We can't even start understanding love, if we don't belong to the real Church that the Lord established. Moreover, with your logic we can be hindu and muslim and if we love each other we're good to go.. belonging to the truth Does matter, dear friend. Hope you don't get me wrong, dear. God bless.
bluewren Reilly
Wrong.
The ONLY question will be " did you receive my Son."
God the Father will never ask " what branch or denomination of Christianity did you belong to?"
The Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, are Not interpretations, they are eye witness accounts, written by their own hand.......
Where is your evidence that the four gospels are "eye witness accounts"? Do you realise how old these men would have had to be, to have written the gospels when they were written? I know of no scholarship that agrees with you. Please elucidate. Thank you.
There are not written by them.Thats why they called κατά Μάρκον that means what markos said etc.
Weren't written couple centuries later?
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc No, they were all written in living memory, before destruction of the Temple, which is nowhere mentioned. There is no valid reason why the named authors may not have written them personally.
@@itisnow And the Gospels are written in very plain everyday Greek
brilliant, enlightening lecture!
Catholic crusader here. Sending squad love to all allied oriental and Greek orthobros ✝️☦️
It's just struck me how his entire argument concerning the failure of the original disciples to understand and even recognize Christ -- passionate and fascinating as it is -- depends on silently forgetting the three women to whom the resurrected Christ chose to show himself first. They needed neither the book nor the bread to find access to him, i.e. direct experience is more than possible and was so for those Jesus chose to show his resurrected self to first. It's only by accepting the already patriarchally-interpreted and formed official Christian narrative which recognizes only 12 (male) disciples and privileges them even in Behr's lecture here -- he mentions the women only to drop them from the picture -- that Behr can produce a reading which privileges canonical text and ritual over direct experience. I think that, for a variety of reasons, both of the two catholic churches -- the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox church, which also bears the title of catholic, i.e. universal -- have been wise to be wary of claims of direct, unmediated, private experience; yet, and even more than any of the Protestant churches, both do depend for their deepest springs and continued existence on Christian mystics, whose personal spiritual experiences (however much they are mediated by church teachings, as thy indeed are) testify to the ways God transcends both canonical texts (the Bible) and ritual (the bread/communion host). [Paradoxically, it turns out to be Protestantism, so often self-reduced to the idolatry of a text, which has least use and respect for the direct spiritual experience as exemplified by Christian mystics.]
well said.
The feminine facet of Christianity is a jewel yet to be fully revealed. But it will be. And when it is it will be like a sunrise revealing and overcoming a darkness that was not even known as such.
Apparently you haven't seen how much reverence the Catholic Churches have paid and continue to pay towards Mary.
That is not the same thing at all because the Catholic Church has sanitized all the femininity out of Mary. In Catholicism Mary in the Assumption is a being stripped of any feminine associations.
That is such a bizarre statement I can barely fathom it. Motherhood is literally the most feminine thing in the world.
10:00, the first writer in the 2nd Century who gave a coherent & comprehensive account of Orthodoxy.
There is something very special about Christianity and you get or don't get it. I think what stands out to me is that death is no excuse to stop fighting the devil. And the devil kicks back at this statement always. He can't run from, block, hide or kill a real Christian. I am his doom in the long run.
Would it not be more realistic to recognize that some "heretics" left because they were intolerant but that other "heretics" left because they saw the intolerance they were up against was unacceptable. What group of people has at all times been properly tolerant and properly divisive?
And here is the question: when is ‘not seeing something to be true’ a matter of refusal and ‘intolerance’? And when is it a matter of fidelity (to the Scriptures, the Constitution, etc.) and a thing beyond our control? - The term ‘tolerance’ applies to situations where you have a choice to tolerate, no? But do you have that choice here? And what gives it to you? 2/2
Why does everybody think Christianity has to be "tolerant"? When did Jesus or one of the Apostle even use this word?
Very well put.
The canonical bishop in North America were previously under SCOBA, then recently changed the name to the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops. Nothing has changed and the real issue of a unified church is swept aside. There exist no excuses, if the desire is strong. Meanwhile, they have dialogue with the catholics instead of pursuing the unity issue amongst all the Orthodox.
brilliant!
Greetings from Orthodox Bulgaria, brothers in Christ +
Greetings back to you! +
Unfortunately not, but there is a supplementary reading available on our website (link posted in description above).
It is common for Orthodox Christians to distress the Primacy of Peter by saying that the Bishop of Rome is first amongst equals, which in itself shows a certain respect to the pope's office. While it might seem as though the Orthodox have this pristine faith where ancient rites are still performed as before, you must keep in mind that the problem with Orthodoxy is that is it autocephalous, there are no two churches that agree with each other, which is a shame as it undermines 'that they be one.'
There are many Orthodox Churches, but they do agree on the main Theology. The separate organisational structures is also a great strength. No one leader of a Church can lead the whole Orthodox world astray, like the Pope of Rome is not doing.
that is the scapegoat used to justify departure from the Church. Most of those who participated in Nicea were shown with mutilated limbs and marks of torture. Where persecuted 13 years before that meeting. Saying that is saying that all those comunities founded by the apostles e.g. Antioquia Jerusalem, Rome....suddenly and unanimously decided to betray what they were being Martyred for. hmmm The same fallacy is been repeated over an over but never proved.
Yarnell McGee, do you know that the Orthodox Church is a break-away of the present Catholic Church? In year 330 A.D., Emperor Constantine moved the capital of the Roman Empire from Rome to Byzantium, which was changed to Constantinople. With this transfer of the Capital of the Roman Empire, Emperor Constantine declared Christianity (now Catholic Church) as official religion of the Roman Empire and a “branch” of the Christianity, which was based in Rome, was put up in Constantinople. This branch of Christianity in Constantinople, later, considered itself as the head-seat of Christianity. This led to animosities between Rome and Constantinople,
which ended in the “Great Schism” in the year 1054 A.D. Christianity in Rome and in Constantinople excommunicated each other, and since then, the “branch” in Constantinople called itself “Orthodox Church” and the seat of Christianity was called “Catholic Church”. But, in 1965, report says, they have reconciled and the Orthodox Church has recognized the Pope in Rome as successor of the apostle Peter.
I believe you have it the other way around The Catholic church and the Apostolic Church (Orthodoxy) were one. It was not until the Great Schism that the Catholic church broke away from the Orthodox Faith.
Check your history again.
Thank you so much. Is there a transcript available?
No they were not heretics. They were simply labeled as heretics because they disagreed with the "in crowd." Those thought to be heretics should be tolerated because they might actually be right in their fight against the narrow minded and misguided mainstream.
It is intellectually dishonest to fail to deal with an honest and open dialogue with those who disagree. That sort of cowardly attitude is what has ruined Christianity. The church obviously has no clue how heretical the main stream is.
Lecture begins at @2:16
BTW, I put the little picture of an Icon of St. Stephen beside my name because he is my favorite saint and my personal hero; NOT because I equate myself with him in any way... is this an acceptable practice? (I am new to internet; I don't the rules yet) 😃
people often put a picture of something important to them. my daughter uses a picture of the st. Catherine icon because she was born on the name day for St. Catherine wno is her patron saint, and coincidently, is a lawyer like St. Catherine.
Doesn´t believe in the Evangelium, but believes in Dan Brown...what can I say? It speaks for itself...
15:19, Arinaus' quote from a letter to Pope Victor.
If I have misunderstood you, please accept my apology. I still stand on God's Word "a new command I give you, that you love one another." May God's love minister to each child of God in the Body of Christ.
Nice.
I think now I am beginning to catch your drift (looking back to your earlier comment), but please tell me if I am following you.
Could Arius say, ‘Those people speaking for the Church are intolerant?’ Fr. Behr (if I recall, but I am counting on memory) seems to suggest that Arius left the Church of his own free will because it stubbornly would not be persuaded of the truth he saw. Were those bishops intolerant? They were certainly inflexible. 1/2
Any transcription of this? Please.
I do enjoy this video though. You are a well informed good speaker.
I want to ask about the Supreme Court. ‘The moment an appeal to authority is used to settle a difference of opinion authority is blowing smoke.’ Well, the Supreme Court settles such differences by ‘ruling’ on what’s Constitutional. Why is that ‘blowing smoke’? ‘If anything be true it can stand on its own,’ you said - so who needs the SC? - Are we not able to identify people who know better than us? People who have studied a thing deeper? Must the only supreme authority I recognize always be me?
I watch lots of these seminars at colleges and universities on all kinds of topics. I'm always amazed how careless and poor the camera work, visuals, the sound. Originally I always thought an attendant used own phone to record event, then at a later time added video to RUclips. Vids I watch are often at rich influential university. Why so poor? Taping done by volunteers on lunch? People doing recording are employees paid minimally, quick set up done, then takes smoke break? What?
Well said.
wonderable teaching
Yes, agreed, but here ‘historical approach’ means inheritance from the Church’s tradition of interpretation.
How does history and legend interact? I know that Rev. John Behr believes that not everything in the Gospels actually happened, but he speaks as though they did. How is that possible? I would love to hear on that.
I do hope that both the LXX and the Masoretic text calls us to: "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15. May all true believers be diligent to study God's Word, and learn and live His precepts and principles. Key scripture: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." That is both LXX & Masoretic. God bless you!
Both LXX and the Masoretic text are OLD TESTAMENT ONLY. Having said that , they do not differ in essentials: seek God, do good, love your fellow-man.
Fr. John Behr takes on those who dismiss Jesus Christ on "historical grounds," by explaining how historicism itself is problematic and, indeed, heretical. The alternative to historicism as our mode of interpretation, he explains, is Christ on the cross as the foundation of all our knowledge and interpretation.....
well no need to watch that then...
Denial of the trinity is denial of God.
I've often thought that God revealed what a cheribum looked like in order for the image to be put on the curtains separating the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies, as well as placed on the ark. Outside of those two occasions, God forbid the generating of a "likeness" for what happens is that we will usually draw/fashion an image/likeness after our own image. This is evident in icon works around the world. I do recognize that icons are an important part of Eastern Orthodox worship.
God forgave 'graven images' because they lead to idol worship, worship of other gods. It was reasoned (during the controversy over icons) that since God took form (as a man, in the form of Jesus Christ), depictions of Jesus are permissible, whereas the Father and the Holy Spirit are only shown symbolically (a hand, a dove). Orthodoxy still does not allow graven images - though some Crucifixes have made their way into some homes, and not many are deeply troubled by that.
What's perhaps shocking is that for many of us who've converted to the Faith, we knew nothing about it, and it has been hidden from most of us, because the founding fathers of this country and Protestant church hated Orthodox and Roman Catholic teachings.
Not too late to investigate, and change .... may God bless you
@@sunnyland3952 Oh no. It's never too late, and I'm so much better off because of it. Check out orthodox dot net, ancient faith dot com and my ocn dot net. If you add radio. in front of the last two web sites, you'll find two radio stations each featuring music and talk stations with each site. I've been a fan of both, because they each cooperate with one another, and ancient faith radio features probably the most extensive collections of podcasts, specials and special films. Here on RUclips, Trisagion Films also features many types of films. Also, since the Coronavirus shut us down, there are dozens of churches who regularily broadcast live here on RUclips including 4 Monasteries. The best way to find all of them is to type "Orthodox Channels" in the search field, and in "Search Filters", select the "Channels" filter, and have fun investigating. The best way to learn about the Faith is to experience all the Divine Services, and there's a podcast that started last year with Fr. Alexis Cor where he walks us through the Orthodox Study Bible. What's different about it is that there are ten books which were included in the original Bible when it was cannonized on July 15, 367 known as the Second Cannon which is not to be confused with the Apocrepha. These books were originally in the Hebrew Bible, but the Jews removed them, because they contained books they didn't consider important. The Greek Jews, however, did, because these books contain the things that the Jews considered scandalous. Of course, they also convicted some of them for killing the prophets, but they also preface more of the miracles which took place before the Incarnation of Christ. I could go on and on, but I'll let you discover for yourself this amazing, historic Church. I really hope you do enjoy it. I know I do, and I've been His Servent since April 5, 1987, and I took exactly two years before that day to learn all I could. You'll learn so much about yourself, too. God Bless!
If anything be true it can stand on its own. The moment an appeal to authority is used to settle a difference of opinion authority is blowing smoke. It's absurd that any institution thinks it has authority to settle differiences of opinion about the biblical text.. Differences will arise, but trying to settle differences by authority IS intolerance. The institutional church was never set up to become the authority it claims to be. Let bad opinions die their own natural death if they will.
7:19, an important section.
Well, explain more what you mean by “the intolerance they were up against”.
If the 4th-C bishops said it was truer to Scripture (etc.) to understand Christ as both man and God (pointing to Scriptural evidence and rejecting Arianism as heresy), would that be intolerant? Or take the reading of the Constitution: if Supreme Court justices say it is true to the Constitution to reject some proposed legislation, could that be called intolerance?
As long as I know how to make my boat floating and traversing the ocean, I careless what others speak of me.