I suggest that riders perfect their pumping, tacks/gybes, topside/heelside, goofy/regular and switching their feet on a bigger board first. It doesn't get easier to learn those skills on a smaller board and it will take a lot longer.
As someone who also started a wingfoil-related channel recently, I understand how much work goes into all this and how important those likes and subscribes are. I'm using two boards now. I have a 110 liter board and an 85 liter board. My main struggle initially was grabbing the wing up from the water, especially when the board was getting rocked by boat wakes or chop. A few sessions on that board and it's not that much of a problem anymore, but obviously still a bit slower than getting up and going on the much wider and longer 110 liter board. Fortunately still easy enough so that I don't need to do the stinkbug start (it's still pretty floaty). What I'm struggling though is riding toe side on either board and that means I tend to touch down after jibes and switch feet ASAP and that gets me around pretty nicely on the 110. With the smaller board though, I'm much more likely to be thrown off balance, so whereas jibes are over 95% reliable in terms of not falling on the 110, I'm having to climb up on the board and start over about 60%-90% time on the 85 liter, depending on wave and wind conditions. So, I'm still using both of them. If I don't feel like swimming too much, I take the 110. Actually riding and controlling the 85 was never an issue. It's for me than the 110 as it's more reactive. This was immediately noticeable when trying to ride through boat wakes going in the same direction as the wake. The wake tends to produce a lot of lift, so it's a lot easier to react to that lift and push the nose down on the 85 than the 110. And as far as pumping to foil goes, I think I can get going easier on the 85, but that's partly due to the much reduced weight and partly due to the bottom shape of the 85 (it just accelerates better and it's a lot less sticky). So, ideally, I will get my jibes sorted soon enough and then I can switch to using the 85 most of the time. It's large enough for me to slog on (albeit a bit less comfortable for that).
@@Tobeon2 I weigh 70kg, often have to wear a full 5mm suit etc and I sail in almost fresh water. I mostly use the Takuma Helium 1500, but I also have a Kujira 980. As long as I'm still learning the jibes, I'm staying on the 1500 and even considering buying a bigger one just to get all the help I can get for those jibes... In terms of light wind performance, I think the 1500 is just fine for me.
@@jmunkki Thank you for yohr response.. 5 mm suit? You must be located in cold area.. For jibing or any wing foiling on fresh & flat water, high aspect ratio front foil really helps since it glides so much better & more distance (Yes, you have to lean on your toeside a bit more with high AR front foil).. I heard so much about Takuma foils. I would love to Kujira in the future.. 😘
@@Tobeon2 Helsinki, Finland...far up North. We had a weird summer where there was a seawater inversion in mid-July and and the temperature went from 20°C to under 10°C in just a day or two. It's back to 20°C again, which is unusually warm for late August, but the air is getting colder now (the water is warmer than the air).
... really enjoyed hearing a confirmation of everything I'm experiencing going from a 125 Nash to a 99 Armstrong ---- probably should have had more foiling session on the Nash before beginning the transition. Good info that really helps me understand why I felt like I was starting all over again.
Footstraps double as knee pads. Also it’s nice to know where your foot goes once you stand up and then just worry about your back foot when you’re slogging in the chop.
I have to chuckle a little. So the wake style kiteboarding videos weren’t getting too many hits, the general kiteboarding videos were ok, but the wingfoiling videos are really getting the interest. Or as I like to say living on the Outer Banks; “Triple S has been cancelled….” Follow the money…….and good luck with the channel!
Thanks mate! Ha yeah, Wing is hot right now but I actually enjoy it. It’s exciting having something new to progress at. I’ll continue to make a weekly kite and wing videos. Some for the beginners / general crowd and some for the wakestyle riders. Im not doing those for the views that’s more for the small wake community and myself. We’re actually In hood competing in the KPl park event right now. It’s back and rider driven! ⚡️⚡️⚡️
One aspect not talked about enough is the importance of a board with enough rocker when learning to foil in choppy waters. I've started learning on an inflatable and discovered what a pain it is to get it started on the local lake when the chop is on, which it always is when it's blowing hard - no beach, just a vertical wall all around so all waves get reflected. Let's just say that it's a good way to build character. Also, you get severely punished if you drop the nose while riding in chop - touch the water and you'll be riding a submarine. I recommend to get a hard board to learn on.
I have had a totally different experience. Learning with an inflatable board have been all advantages. Getting to your knees when getting up 100 times in a row is wonderful, the rebound effect when pumping helps a lot to start gliding, they are much more resistant to blows... and deflated they fit in the trunk of a small car. They are also not as reactive, making it less sensitive to failures.
Hi Rygo, very useful content!! I am 87 Kg and 50 years old. Confident winger (do jibes and tacks and some 360s), dont jump, like open ocean swell, non breaking waves, downwinds (also starting now the dw sup journey on my armstrong 7.7x21). I wing in the Canary Islands with a lot of chop and moving water. I am riding FG 5.5x27 88l. Want to go down in size to have sth more surfy/turny. Not sure if I should go down to 80l (5.2x23) or 70l (5.0x22). Would be my one only wing board. Little bit scary to go down to 70l, was yesterday on a dw with big bumps and not making it on foil woyuld be scary (plenty of wind here, more a thing of balance to get up that worries me), so dont know if it pays out to go for a 70l or maybe just go down 8l from 88 to 80 but narrower and slighly shorter ? Million thx for advice 🙂
Thanks Ramon! I think most wingers I know like smaller boards. That said, I find water starting to be a challenge when going smaller. It is much easier to opt for a longer narrow board over a shorter but higher volume. I recently tried a 5’2 65L AK phazer board back to back with a 4’8 78L board. The longer narrow AK Phazer board was noticeably easier than the soap bar shape haha. From your described skill level, I think 70L will be a fun challenge. Opt for something a bit longer and narrow. Wide boards are ehh imo.
@@ryanrygogoloversic8826 Thx a lot, so changing from 88l 5.5x27 yo 80l 5.2x23 should be an improvement in turnability and surfability because its much narrower, do you agree? And going further down to 70l 5.0x22 maybe does not compensate the gain. I am mot jumping, I ride waves, bumps and do downwinds so eith the 80l 5.2x23 should be great, do you agree? Thanks a millio Rygo
@@RamonSBruhn I agree. Those dimensions sound great. You will enjoy the 80 for sure. Later on, you could easily make the switch to smaller if you felt the need.
Maybe I should have titled this when to switch to a “smaller” board. I would argue that’s subjective but basically anything considered intermediate for the rider weight or significantly less liters than they learned on. For example I starred on a 140. On the change to a 78 L I encountered these things. 78 isn’t that small. Certainly not a sinker board haha.
I thought it would have to do with more the foil than the board. Surely it don't matter what board your on after its out the water, it's all to do with the foil, or I could be wrong.
That was my first thought but the shape and box placement impact the ride. Touchdowns or take offs. If you’re advanced, a big board would be tough for swell or freestyle. A good example would be the AK phaser foil boards. The larger boards are made for faster more tracking take offs while the smaller sizes have give in case you touch down on a hard turn etc. short boards have better pumping etc.
I can’t speak from windsurf experience but watching them start I feel like you would need to be powered to do a windsurf start. Personally I find getting small on the board easier. Try and let us know how it goes!
I suggest not to start on a such big board… 100-120 liters should be more than enough. If the board is too big you are doing a step back when learning…
@@pete3036 i’m 65 kg and started with a 95 litres board, but i also windsurf a lot so i had some balance knowledge. If you’ve never done any windsurfing, or kiting i thing its a bit too small, and you should go for something around 120l. If you have experience in other water sports 105 should be more than enough
I am 195lb/87kg and took my first lessons on 140 and 180l boards, great to start learning the wing. For my first purchase I went with 125l and that is going fine. I do a a bit of supsurfing experience.
I suggest that riders perfect their pumping, tacks/gybes, topside/heelside, goofy/regular and switching their feet on a bigger board first.
It doesn't get easier to learn those skills on a smaller board and it will take a lot longer.
I disagree. It’s a huge stepback to start with a huge board. Progress may seem harder at first but you can gain a good level faster
@@nunogernaert9002 I wrote "bigger" board, not huge...
"Bigger" as in more volume than your body weight.
As someone who also started a wingfoil-related channel recently, I understand how much work goes into all this and how important those likes and subscribes are.
I'm using two boards now. I have a 110 liter board and an 85 liter board. My main struggle initially was grabbing the wing up from the water, especially when the board was getting rocked by boat wakes or chop. A few sessions on that board and it's not that much of a problem anymore, but obviously still a bit slower than getting up and going on the much wider and longer 110 liter board. Fortunately still easy enough so that I don't need to do the stinkbug start (it's still pretty floaty).
What I'm struggling though is riding toe side on either board and that means I tend to touch down after jibes and switch feet ASAP and that gets me around pretty nicely on the 110. With the smaller board though, I'm much more likely to be thrown off balance, so whereas jibes are over 95% reliable in terms of not falling on the 110, I'm having to climb up on the board and start over about 60%-90% time on the 85 liter, depending on wave and wind conditions. So, I'm still using both of them. If I don't feel like swimming too much, I take the 110.
Actually riding and controlling the 85 was never an issue. It's for me than the 110 as it's more reactive. This was immediately noticeable when trying to ride through boat wakes going in the same direction as the wake. The wake tends to produce a lot of lift, so it's a lot easier to react to that lift and push the nose down on the 85 than the 110. And as far as pumping to foil goes, I think I can get going easier on the 85, but that's partly due to the much reduced weight and partly due to the bottom shape of the 85 (it just accelerates better and it's a lot less sticky).
So, ideally, I will get my jibes sorted soon enough and then I can switch to using the 85 most of the time. It's large enough for me to slog on (albeit a bit less comfortable for that).
Thank you for sharing your experience.
How much do you weigh and the foil you usually use with your 110 liter and 85 liter board?
@@Tobeon2 I weigh 70kg, often have to wear a full 5mm suit etc and I sail in almost fresh water. I mostly use the Takuma Helium 1500, but I also have a Kujira 980. As long as I'm still learning the jibes, I'm staying on the 1500 and even considering buying a bigger one just to get all the help I can get for those jibes... In terms of light wind performance, I think the 1500 is just fine for me.
@@jmunkki Thank you for yohr response.. 5 mm suit? You must be located in cold area.. For jibing or any wing foiling on fresh & flat water, high aspect ratio front foil really helps since it glides so much better & more distance (Yes, you have to lean on your toeside a bit more with high AR front foil)..
I heard so much about Takuma foils. I would love to Kujira in the future.. 😘
@@Tobeon2 Helsinki, Finland...far up North. We had a weird summer where there was a seawater inversion in mid-July and and the temperature went from 20°C to under 10°C in just a day or two. It's back to 20°C again, which is unusually warm for late August, but the air is getting colder now (the water is warmer than the air).
... really enjoyed hearing a confirmation of everything I'm experiencing going from a 125 Nash to a 99 Armstrong ---- probably should have had more foiling session on the Nash before beginning the transition. Good info that really helps me understand why I felt like I was starting all over again.
all your points and arguments are correct and on par with my experience switching to a small sinker board last month
Footstraps double as knee pads. Also it’s nice to know where your foot goes once you stand up and then just worry about your back foot when you’re slogging in the chop.
That is a tip I wish i knew. Haha good one!
I think the title should have been, “things I wish I knew”. Great tips. Larry
Awesome video Ryan 🩵🤙🏴🏴
I have to chuckle a little. So the wake style kiteboarding videos weren’t getting too many hits, the general kiteboarding videos were ok, but the wingfoiling videos are really getting the interest. Or as I like to say living on the Outer Banks; “Triple S has been cancelled….” Follow the money…….and good luck with the channel!
Thanks mate! Ha yeah, Wing is hot right now but I actually enjoy it. It’s exciting having something new to progress at. I’ll continue to make a weekly kite and wing videos. Some for the beginners / general crowd and some for the wakestyle riders. Im not doing those for the views that’s more for the small wake community and myself. We’re actually In hood competing in the KPl park event right now. It’s back and rider driven! ⚡️⚡️⚡️
So bummed I loved watching the triple S,
One aspect not talked about enough is the importance of a board with enough rocker when learning to foil in choppy waters. I've started learning on an inflatable and discovered what a pain it is to get it started on the local lake when the chop is on, which it always is when it's blowing hard - no beach, just a vertical wall all around so all waves get reflected. Let's just say that it's a good way to build character. Also, you get severely punished if you drop the nose while riding in chop - touch the water and you'll be riding a submarine. I recommend to get a hard board to learn on.
I have had a totally different experience. Learning with an inflatable board have been all advantages. Getting to your knees when getting up 100 times in a row is wonderful, the rebound effect when pumping helps a lot to start gliding, they are much more resistant to blows... and deflated they fit in the trunk of a small car. They are also not as reactive, making it less sensitive to failures.
Hi Rygo, very useful content!! I am 87 Kg and 50 years old. Confident winger (do jibes and tacks and some 360s), dont jump, like open ocean swell, non breaking waves, downwinds (also starting now the dw sup journey on my armstrong 7.7x21). I wing in the Canary Islands with a lot of chop and moving water. I am riding FG 5.5x27 88l. Want to go down in size to have sth more surfy/turny. Not sure if I should go down to 80l (5.2x23) or 70l (5.0x22). Would be my one only wing board. Little bit scary to go down to 70l, was yesterday on a dw with big bumps and not making it on foil woyuld be scary (plenty of wind here, more a thing of balance to get up that worries me), so dont know if it pays out to go for a 70l or maybe just go down 8l from 88 to 80 but narrower and slighly shorter ? Million thx for advice 🙂
Thanks Ramon! I think most wingers I know like smaller boards. That said, I find water starting to be a challenge when going smaller. It is much easier to opt for a longer narrow board over a shorter but higher volume.
I recently tried a 5’2 65L AK phazer board back to back with a 4’8 78L board. The longer narrow AK Phazer board was noticeably easier than the soap bar shape haha.
From your described skill level, I think 70L will be a fun challenge. Opt for something a bit longer and narrow. Wide boards are ehh imo.
@@ryanrygogoloversic8826 Thx a lot, so changing from 88l 5.5x27 yo 80l 5.2x23 should be an improvement in turnability and surfability because its much narrower, do you agree? And going further down to 70l 5.0x22 maybe does not compensate the gain. I am mot jumping, I ride waves, bumps and do downwinds so eith the 80l 5.2x23 should be great, do you agree? Thanks a millio Rygo
@@RamonSBruhn I agree. Those dimensions sound great. You will enjoy the 80 for sure. Later on, you could easily make the switch to smaller if you felt the need.
having used a inflatable board, nose rockers are super important - saw on the fanatic board in the video
Helps so much! Feel free to share any other tips 👌 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Thanks
Cheers Francis!
What's constitutes a small board? Equally of slightly less than bodyweight/ litre or way below bodyweight?
Maybe I should have titled this when to switch to a “smaller” board. I would argue that’s subjective but basically anything considered intermediate for the rider weight or significantly less liters than they learned on. For example I starred on a 140. On the change to a 78 L I encountered these things. 78 isn’t that small. Certainly not a sinker board haha.
I thought it would have to do with more the foil than the board. Surely it don't matter what board your on after its out the water, it's all to do with the foil, or I could be wrong.
That was my first thought but the shape and box placement impact the ride. Touchdowns or take offs. If you’re advanced, a big board would be tough for swell or freestyle. A good example would be the AK phaser foil boards. The larger boards are made for faster more tracking take offs while the smaller sizes have give in case you touch down on a hard turn etc. short boards have better pumping etc.
@@ryanrygogoloversic8826 Thanks for your reply
110 liters snd 85 liters: wich brand board?
For former windsurfers, do you think it's easier to do an in-water windsurf type water start rather than a stinkbug on-board start with small boards?
I can’t speak from windsurf experience but watching them start I feel like you would need to be powered to do a windsurf start. Personally I find getting small on the board easier. Try and let us know how it goes!
You cant sink the luff of the wing so use it to stabilise your self when your kneeling on the board.
🔥
Foil under 1000 cm2 is way more difference than a less floaty board, if you where riding above 1700 or 2000cm2 ....
That’s a good point to mention as well. Might not be a bad idea to touch on what to expect from different front wing sizes in a later video.
I suggest not to start on a such big board… 100-120 liters should be more than enough. If the board is too big you are doing a step back when learning…
I'm 75 kilos.. is a 105 Liter Board ok to start?
@@pete3036 i’m 65 kg and started with a 95 litres board, but i also windsurf a lot so i had some balance knowledge. If you’ve never done any windsurfing, or kiting i thing its a bit too small, and you should go for something around 120l. If you have experience in other water sports 105 should be more than enough
I am 195lb/87kg and took my first lessons on 140 and 180l boards, great to start learning the wing. For my first purchase I went with 125l and that is going fine. I do a a bit of supsurfing experience.