Ok guys... calm down! LOL This isnt really a theory video its more of an open discussion about the information that Jay Garrick gave Barry and us the viewers vs the information that we have learned from Savitar over the course of the season. If you disagree with me thats fine, Im only talking about what we have seen on the show. So if you have a theory or explanation for what has happened over the course of this season in regards to whats myth, legend and fact, talk about in the comments! Thanks for the support! :)
I think of it as part of the writers fault actually. It started with the Alchemy arc. Episodes 2-10 or whichever episode Julian is unmasked. It was plot to fill in the first run of episodes before the winter break. Meta of the week coming from the Flashpoint timeline. Then the 2017 arc was until the break a month back. Now its the Finale run. TV writers think in blocks like that. So the TV plots tend to follow it. So you can't take everything as fact sadly. Pretty much Savitar was a different character before Julian became good. Then he changed.
airricksreloaded well this is the flashpoint time line, so flashkid and alchemy never existed till flashpoint, Savitor cant alternate the timeline cause he is also a product of flashpoint, Savitor could be Barry Alan so if he kills the past barry alan, he wont exist
omg.... what if savitar isnt a man........ what if savitar is the rock? savitar is the man who the rock has in his captivity. savitar is the spirit in the rock, and this spirit in the rock takes over people until they turn into the first speedster on the earth. what if savitar is the monster that the person will turn into the myth of savitar. The first man, on the earth, to gain powers of the speedforce, gets attracted by the rock that wants to take over their body human body. in which they turn into worshipers who carry on the role to become the first speedster so in this reset of time. Eobard barry back to a time where eobard puts the stone. so what the does is he destroys someone. he kills someone that the person loves and cares about and then the person, he is controlling, the owner. the person the stone can control, whoever died to get control of their body. So this person who originally died for their loved one back, is controlled by savitar. it was first the speedster on the earth. and then he passed it on to the next speedster on the earth. which if it isnt barry it will be the reverse flash. I think the reverse flash made it so that the first speedster on his earth was barry instead of himself. so in this event, Eobard thawne, or the first speedster on the earth, gets tempted to die by the evil spirit of savitar. this has to be the strongest they will ever be. and savitar will take control of their body. this was originally given to eobard thawn who was a person who had lost someone and was originally the first speedster on his earth and he could be passing the stone on to the first speedster of his earth which maybe in a new scenario eobard thawne created a particle accelerator in which he was given speedforce powers. and became the first man to ever get speed. in which he created a new flash in which he is passing on the stone to. That is why he became harrison wells, who just so happened to be a really smart guy who turned on the particle accelerator. to gain his information, create the new flash on the earth, set off the particle accelerator and create a new flash. This explains season 1 too, the reverse flash trys to make the first flash of an earth faster. to be the fastest first flash on an earth. so maybe he gave the box to with the stone in it to a philosopher who can control different versions in time in which a person doesnt get speed first. and the way that this is done is through harrison wells, or eobard thawne. who was originally the first person of the earth to get speed. either he could be the first or he could just know about the stone and transfer it to another person on their earth. so when is the eobard thawne is the fastest speedster on an earth, he gives the stone of their earth to the person who is the fastest speedster first on an earth. which is barry. when he created flashpoint, he created an earth where wally was flash, in which he could have created a version where eobard thawne was the first speedster of his earth to be punished in this way in which he travels to a new earth and creates a flash and gets them to be the fastest speedster. in which case this version was the one where barry wasnt the fastest speedster, it was wally. and wally was the first flash of the earth in which when that changed back, this is when savitar was created to try and destroy the fastest flash in which was eobard but turned into barry. in which barry creates a new timeline where he isnt the first speedster. wally is. and when eobard thawne returns barry to the new present. he did it in a world where wally was the first speedster, and eobard thawne was the speedster who was destined to change time and create the chance for the stone to go to someone else. the fastest first speedster and "savitar" gives barry the chance to give himself over to savitar, to get the person he loves back. savitar is the last person to accept the stone by taking the thing back that they wanted most. the person they love and they lost. ill type a little more in another comment lol
this is how savitar lives. he lives when he becomes the fastest first speedster on his earth. and the speedforce needs this person to be positive that there will be a speedster on an earth. So when barry created flashpoint, he allowed himself to create a time when barry allen wasnt the fastest man alive and wally was. so this spirit is hunting barry because of eobard thawne who placed the rock of the time period of barrys turning eobard thawne who was the first speedster to go back in time and create the flash. and then cause the speedster to get faster and create the new faster speedster on an earth. im assuming eobard thawne either knew about this stone and was in danger of it(could also be he is working with savitar) gives the stone to the new fastest flash of an earth.
i dont know if this is what is happening but it is one hell of a theory, savitar could turn into anyone who touches the stone im assuming, or maybe dies by the stone. in this case jullian was the bringer of the stone to barry after jullians sister, i think or maybe girlfriend, dies and savitar offers to bring him to his sister or "get his sister back to them, if they die or killl themselves, with the stone in their hand or maybe around them, savitar can fully control the person. and he needs to control the fastest first speedster on the earth. so im assuming this was sent by eobard thawne of a time where he was the first speedster on earth. and he passes it on to another flash by creating them. in this timeline eobard thawne still exists and goes on legends for a season. This all makes sense, in this new time period, eobard thawne passed barry on to being the fastest speedster on his earth, by turning barry into a speedster and making barry the fastest speedster on his earth. im assuming the rock can turn into anyone who dies near it when it is open will inherit the disciple ship of it. so i think when barry created flashpoint and made wally a flash, he created a time where wally was the fastest speedster on an earth so when savitar got wally to take his place, he was turned into a person, because he can control the person who becomes the disciple which at first was jullian, which then became...........cisco, which now will become..... killer frost who soon will try to become barry, who is the fastest first speedster of his time im assuming eobard gave it to him to kill him and turn him into savitar. the barry version of savitar, after savitar turns into barry, creates a speedforce dungeon to keep whoever was the last speedster to be trapped by Savitar, which in this timeline, could be eobard.
The only speedster i know of that is faster than Barry is Bart Allan, Barry's grandson in the future. Also as for your point airricksreloaded about whether savatar is from the past or the future when Barry is in the speed force the speed force tells him that being in the speed force is like living in the past and future.
Dillon Thompson if our Barry is faster than Ezra Miller then that's why Ezra Miller has Megatron's armor because it enhances the speed force in him, and makes him faster, much like reverse flash using the tachyon device in season one!
That would make sense although you can't say that for a fact because we don't know what the suit exactly does. Some people think that it gives non speedsters speed so I guess it's just speculation for now. If they do decide to make Bart Savitar (highly unlikely) that would be insane most people don't know in some comics Bart is actually a bad guy so ... yeah. Biting my fingernails off for the new episode.
Dillon Thompson TBH I think Savitar is a version of Barry Allen from another timeline, who got stuck in the speed force after Barry undo's flashpoint...there was no timeline for him to return to after flashpoint was undone, so he was trapped in the speed force...thats why he claimes berry was there when he was created, and he blames Barry for taking everything away from him...He also knows everyone on team flash, who can know all that save Barry Allen himself, or should I say Savitar?
IF he gets revealed tomorrow. But in reality, what is gonna happen is that inside savitar's armor is..... another savitar armor, smaller, and with regular clothes on top for misdirect.
Actually he already knew before. There's a interview with Tom Cavanagh on youtube in which they ask how he found out. And he said when he was approached for the role of Harrison Wells ''The Professor'' he Declined until they revealed that he would actually be The Reverse Flash. So he always knew.
Speedforce rumors. Savitar is in a time loop he has always existed planting false stories each lifetime in the Speedforce. Which is why we wanted to bond with the Speedforce to exist everywhere in every time. I think lol. Savitar made Wally because he was the one he could manipulate into freeing him. Team Flash have the peace of stone therefore Wally has access to it where as The Rival was an enemy.
StevedazombieTV He could still be the first person given speed by the speed force, its the whole time remnant problem again, although he is from the future in the chronology of the speed force they gave savitar his power first in 2050 etc, then move onto other speedsters, barry, jay etc. so in the passage of normal time yeah barry came first but, speed force chronology they gave speed to savitar first.
Also as a side note, anyone get the feeling that Savitar isn't a "True" Speedster? I know he says Barry is there when he gets his speed but last episode kind of gave the impression that his powers come from his suite and in a previous episode the cast making mention of future technology seeming like magic to people in the present. Just something to think about
SPOILER ALERT This is the disappointing reveal of all the shows. They didn't even try to be different from the comics. I wanted it to be anyone but future Barry.
The writers had set themselves up for a convoluted plot that they were not prepared to solve by the end of this season. It seemed like they were writing the plot as the season went along. In this case, Savitar's story has been changing because they did not know what the end identity for Savitar would be or how his story should play out at the beginning of the season. The lack of poor overall plot planning is evidenced by the fact that Tracy B-whatever introduced so late in the season. You said in your Rant and Preview that it's possible that Tracy would die quickly or replace someone on the team. But she is a key part to defeating Savitar, if not the sole solution to his demise. If she was integral to defeating the main villain of this season, she is definitely an important character that should have been introduced a long time ago. If she is going to die super quickly at the end, then she's just a deus ex machina for the show. All of the inconsistencies you pointed are legitimate, and I think that's due to the writers' lack of planning for this season. I also don't think the writers will have Savitar's identity solve all of those inconsistencies by the season finale. Only recently has Savitar's story stayed somewhat consistent: he's someone that Barry and KF/CS knows; he's played with time travel, either coming back to the past or from the future; and he has some personal vendetta against the Flash. I'm just overall very disappointed and tired with the writers with constant inconsistencies and just poor writing with season 3.
MintChocChip10 i think they plan all the plots of the shows a year before they release. :) but yeah i agree that some of the episodes are like fillers only except for Season 3 B part
MintChocChip100 of course they don't know what to do with Savitar .. He's a villain of Wally West when he took over as Flash in the comics ... do they're making up a story trying to stay in line with the comics but they can't beckus Barry is not the Flash who fought Savitar
the writers change the direction of season when this episode aired. Honestly not happy about how this season going since winter break no real movement on the story. I rather than them spend more time in flashpoint than on Savitar
CW "Logic" for sure! But c'mon, let's speculate and make some "nothing the show showed contradicts this" hypotheses for the fun of it! Not like CW is gonna deliver us as much fun otherwise :(
Paul Smith he definitely did.. Because Barry finds out next week, So that means Future Barry knows, But did he like because he's Savitar, or he knows, or Because he knows, and he knows it'll mess Barry up, so he's keeping him safe
savitar says its either you or me because furture flash is savitar and barry doesnt become sacitar unless iris dies, thats why he says only one of us can exist
Jay was relating 'stories' he heard about Savitar. So we can't say that Jay was misleading coz he was not stating facts, but rather thoughts from others. What Jay said does not have to be true!
Maybe Jay became Savitar after Barry forgot to/couldnt figure out how to, get Jay out of that speed force prison after he switched places with Wally. Savitar did say Barry trapped him in the speed force and called him cruel and a liar. He may have been there so long it drove him mad. Maybe Barry can "undo" Savitar simply by freeing Jay 🤔
Savitar is CISCOOOO!!! "Hiding in plain sight, stewing with hate!" Lost his BROTHER and his HANDS!... AND, the POWERS that came with them as a direct result of Barry's actions! I'D BE PISSED TOO! Check out the "beginning stage" of his/Savitar's suit wrapped in plastic hanging in the background during season 3 episode 19. ( In the scenes between Barry and Cisco.) They showed it a several times!... He wasn't the only thing hiding in plain sight. lol He RESENTS, Barry for not only causing Dante's death by going back to save his mother WITHOUT CONSULTING TEAM FLASH, but also, for refusing to do the same for his brother... Since HE caused his death in the first place. Who else ticks all the necessary boxes, hate, loathing, loss, personal knowledge, etc, etc AND has the technical and scientific wizardry to make that sweet suit, BUT Cisco?... The answer is NOBODY! When was the SEED/IDEA FIRST planted in Cisco's head for SAVITAR? Reverb to Cisco in Season 2 episode 13: Reverb: "What if Zoom wasn't running the show anymore?" Cisco: "What do you mean?" Reverb: "You don't even know how powerful you are, all you use your powers for, are these cheap parlor tricks, when you, you could be a GOD".... When we, could be GODS" Hahahaha, the GERMINATION of SAVITAR GOD OF SPEED! He could have killed Wally, BUT he didn't, he could have killed Jessie Quick, BUT he didn't, he could have killed HR, BUT he didn't. He kills the ONE person Barry loves the MOST, and in doing so, causes MAXIMUM DAMAGE in every possible way! SO, he decides to give Barry the ultimate MIDDLE FINGER for Dante... BUT, he decided to do it creatively, by making it a METAL MIDDLE FINGER through Iris' BACK!!! lololol I crack me up!!!! BOOM!!!!... (drops mike and leaves room)
blacksnakemagic i totally agree... ive been saying the same thing all over the place. The fact that barrys time travelling killed dante and he NEVER bothered to go back for him is a big low blow to Cisco. Cisco even mentioned how he let his brother die but goes back for everyone he cares about. Its obvious people. Look how savitar moves too... he jumps through BREACHES... nuff said.
blacksnakemagic Doesnt make complete sense but better than a lot of theories. Anythings possible on cw so i dont rule out anyone's but some seem unlikely
@ MarvellousJason -- The one singular problem for me, on the "Barry = Savitar" is, that Barry does not possess the engineering and scientific prowess to build that suit.
He didn't kill iris then because 1. He was still stuck in SpeedForce 2. He had to make sure that Barry thought he would win with his bazooka but then it didn't then he begs and then his love dies
mizu88KA It would be so fucking awesome. i suspected joe since the beginning. but i don't think they're going that way. and why would Joe kill Iris anyway?
Ilyess De Bates Maybe its Joe from the timeline. when Barry first fought against Weather Wizard. Barry rescues Joe from Weather Wizard, Gorilla Grood, Zoom...starting to see a pattern...
Jays known what's been happening since the beginning and not because he's Savitar. He's not. The diner scene. No one believes me but I've said it for months. Instead of saying "when we first met" Jay said to Barry "when you first met me". I don't think it's a writing thing and it was purposely said that way. Jay met Real Barry after everything gets fixed. Without going into my big long theory Barry, Savitar, and future Barry are all the same remnant and real Barry's trapped. Jays playing his part to get Barry back.
Watch clips thinking Barry's a remnant and it all makes sense.. in my head. Remnant created flashpoint which created killer Frost which is why Savitar called her "my child"
so where is the real barry? so you are saying the flash right now is a remnant that will eventually become the flash 2024 and then that flash will become savitar? I think as the flash from 2024 stated that flash from 2017 is going to create numerous remnants and savitar will kill most of them. I think one of them will become savitar while one will stay on being the flash.
real Barry burnt up fighting Zoom. Remnant appeared on Barrys left and took off to free Joe. Zoom attacked him stopped looked at him and said "a remnant, stole my trick flash". Everybody says what about Savitars comma. Zoom had a comma too. I think it's a time loop. Once it comes full circle everything goes back to normal. Another good clip to watch thinking he's a remnant is him explaining flashpoint everybody.
My theory is that there are actually Two Savitars. The first Savitar is the one known for the legend that Jay talks about, he got his speed from the Philosopher Stone and he visits different earths to challenge speedsters and prove he is the best of them all. He doesn't have a metal suit or anything, he is just an ex-pilot who got thrust into the speed force by accident. The second Savitar is actually Barry's time remnant who was stuck in the speed force, found the philosopher stone and got super mad duper speed, and assumed the Identity of Savitar to confuse and mislead Barry. This could also potentially open up the possibility of the real Savitar showing up in Season 4
jay garrick is savitar because jay garrick took the place of wally in the speed force. meaning jay garrick is in the speed force long enough to be a bad guy and turned into savitar
I'll choke all these questions up to bad writing. S3 Flash hasn't been at all on par with the last two seasons. The way the handles Flash Point was horrible. Savitar/Future Barry hasn't been a bad villain, but it felt like at least the first half of the season, S3 should have been completely all about Flash Point and they should used Arrow some in Flash Point, or rather Oliver's dad as Arrow and used that with the Legends to fix time and do a mega cross over as the Legends could easily be explained by being outside of time, so they were never affected by FP. FP was suppose to be this big epic story line, but sadly for the most part this season has been a pretty big let down compared to other seasons.
I still think that it is all about the SpeedForce challenging Barry Allen. Don't forget how SpeedForce were playing with Barry when Barry messed up with previous timeline. It's important to note that Flash must be after all a "hero" no matter happens after all tragedy ... even losing her love (Iris West) ... It doesn't matter who is Savitar but i think it is important why he is here, now ...
What if we're getting mandarin'ed in a very useless Iron Man 3 way by the showrunners and the Savitar we have on the show isn't actually Savitar but someone else ( Alternate Barry or someone else ) who's posing as Savitar using thee legend to strengthen his aura of Bad Guy. Saying this because including a version of HR that is a storyteller and theatrically enclined for a lack of better wording made 0 sense in itself at the beginning of the season. The more I think about it I assume we may have overlooked a major detail ( which could be who is listening to HR's stories now and in the future )
Well to me it made no sense to have a version of Wells coming to the show and him being, on paper, totally useless in a fight against anything because he is not a scientist, a meta, or particularily enclined to fight crime. But he tells stories, makes up things and he cons people for a living. I don't think he has been brought on the show as regular character because he was a funny idea but because they planned an arc for him and we haven't seen it through yet, plus he has to be useful at some point in order to stop Savitar (or even create Savitar maybe) using his skills ^^
future barry becomes salivitar because he got back into being the flash and kept on pushing and got better etc. then the flashpoint stuff happens with becoming the speed force ,and some how he escapes from the speed force
But when Barry asks Jay : How do you know all this ??? Jay says : Speed force myths, legends, rumors. So yes, Jay can be wrong but maybe he is not lying.
You make a good point. The way I see it (just a few points, won't try to connect them). Savitar is the "fist" known speedster due to his trapping in the speed force and having access to any point in time from there, and people *assumed* he was the first man granted speed since they dont know his origins and don't know he isn't moving forward in time, but going zig zag. From their perspective, he has just always existed before all other speedsters. Cult of Savitar: I think the cult of Savitar has more to do with his Savitar's god complex (that is the main reason, which is mostly separate from Barry or Flashpoint - in E1, when Flaspoint happened, he got creative and took the chance to fiddle with it). Savitar going after other speedsters: I have two hypothesis. One, he does it not cause they're fast enough to challenge him (that is their assumption), he does it cause he is crazy and he has time to kill (haha) since he is trapped in the speedforce and isn't time yet for his revenge. Man needs a hobby you know. Of course, people only observing his actions and nto knowing his motivations, agian, that is what it looked like to people instead of the actual motivation. Second hypothesis: Savitar is a creation of the speedforce that doesn't goes after peedsters who can challenge it, but (a) Savitar goes to challenge and test speedsters who have shown to have achieve enough power to do shit like fuck up timelines but who the speedforce isnt sure they can handle it (you know, like traveling back in time everytime you grief and messing with the timeline massively). Of course, there is the chance that the writers fucked up, or that a future speedforced crazied version of Jay dueto being trapped there is Savitar (I have defended that theory until the preview for today's episode, that one just made me confused) and somehow this future version intentionally planted all the misinformation that past Jay learned as part of his revenge plan. But in the former case it is just too easy to dismiss as such and not as fun, and the latter... I don't think I want to give the producers and writers of this show that much credit for thinking that much ahead. I would love if they pulled something so detailed ahead and so well cordinated, but until now I don't trust them to do so.
in the comic books when Barry Allen was struck by lightning he created the speed force in the speed force scratches through out time and space so in fact he could be the first person granted speed at that moment in time
I miss the Season 1 quality writing where the villian was mysterious yet obvious from the first episode, with sound logic and motivation. The harder they try to mystify the villian and deceive the viewers, the more bullshit reasoning we get during the reveal. This was the reason why making Zolomon Jay's copycat was disappointing. It was a good 'WTF' moment at the time but in the end it turned Zoom into a psycho without understandable motivation. I feel like the same is going to happen to Savitar minus the 'WTF' moment. At this point there were so many theories of who the Savitar can be that no matter who is hiding behind the suit, it will be either predictable or bullshit or both. There are no characters in the Arrowverse left that aren't suspects but none of them make sense. As of now there is no character on the show that has a serious grudge against Barry, has connection to Philosopher Stone, who would want to kill Iris and whom Caitlyn/Killer Frost would trust instantly. They successfully managed to write themselves into a corner.
Savitar has stated that he "loves a good myth" which would maybe contribute to the stories jay told Barry. Clearly he was toying with Team Flash for the whole season as he already lived the events and is aware if what's going to happen. The whole point of Savitar being there was to find a way out of the speed force and to basically make Team Flash aware that the future is going to happen no matter how hard they fight which essentially leads pushing Barry to the breaking point where he can become Savitar.
Man first only Speedsters can see Savitar. Only way non-speedsters was able to see him was after Wally freed him from the speedforce. To be honest your over thinking it a little
well its simple Savatr goes to fight other Speedsters after Barry makes the armor that makes him Savatr which he does some time after 2024, meaning he goes off tomorrow
its amazing how literally all these questions were answered throughout the season like cw was watching the video going."ok got that" "thats right" "yup"
Jay did state that they were rumours. Rumours can be true or false or both combined. Telling Barry something in this case but at the same time stating they could be false is better than not telling him anything.
7:00 Why Savitar DID NOT kill Jay outright? Villains with MEGALOMANIA EGOS usually prove they are powerful by being TALKATIVE (while having the upper hand) before delivering a deadly or crippling blow to their enemies. 7:30 Why Savitar DID NOT kill yet Iris? Savitar was setting to kill up Iris in a specific time to give MAXIMUM PAIN to Barry, so Barry would be distraught so much to become Savitar later. With so much pain... Good Guys turn themselves to the Dark Side of the Force.
When Savitar says Barry is there when he creates himself he could be referring to the persona ''Savitar'' When Iris is murdered it could cause a version of Barry to become Savitar.
HE say "I created myself" and "You will be there when I am created" Yeeee becouse Barry made a Time remenent when he thought Zoom and it got destoyed into the speedforce.
New theory: Remember when Caitlin visited that random Savitar disciple at his house (S3E7)? Maybe Savitar is the future version of that guy. Why not? That would explain her trust, since he already predicted the future, and the disciples apparently have specific knowledge about Team Flash members (as demonstrated by this one knowing who she was).
What is savitar is Barry from a future in which he DID save Iris, and then something major went down that made him realise that he needed her to die, and so he goes back in time to kill her. Which would explain how the future Barry weve alreasy seen isnt Savitar
the savitar trapped in the speed force was the one that future barry defeated, then he manipulates the creation of wally/kidflash (because in the speed force he could see the flaspoint universe ) to release himself in the past
he also didnt kill iris before because he was still trapped in the speedforce. it wasnt that he couldnt kill her of course he could kill her so fast she wouldnt even know she was dead yet but that could drastically effect the future and he still needed wally west to get faster to open the breach and if iris died that would break team flash and wally could potentially quit or have a mental block and would not get the training he needed. You clearly saw it took barry and alot of other things to help wally get faster and you clearly see in the last episode iris death broke the entire team
For weeks I thought it was Jay simply because it's always a speedster that's been mentoring Barry. Then when Jay randomly found Barry and trapped himself in the speed force, that's when I really thought he was Savitar.
While it may just be the negligence in show writing, i feel like the savitar jay described may be a separate entity and be the "true" god of speed while the savitar we've been seeing (the one with a personal grudge on barry) is an egomaniac who named himself after the real one (judging by how he stated he "loved a good myth").
Lol I'm all caught up on the flash to date but your video came in my feed. My view on Savitar given everything we know now as vewiers, I believe that maybe there is a different version of Savitar on Jays world.
Ok In the comics it says that Barry Allen was the first Flash and all other speedsters (past and present) are connected via the speed force to that singular event.. Now If Barry is the first speedster then it stands to reason that at some point in his future he may have lost his mind and decides to correct what he perceives as mistakes in his past while simultaneously insuring that his evolution into Savitar becomes reality.... OR When Barry Allen created the time Remnant to defeat Zoom it was the Original Barry that sacrificed himself and the Barry Allen that survived is actually the time remnant.. If the Original Barry in fact did trap himself in the speed force he would have potentially been able to see everything his remnant did after that event (creating flashpoint, seeing Iris die, and his friends falling apart) As we Know, When someone is in the Speed force, they have the potential to see past, present and future events and also that time itself means nothing. So here he is, Trapped in the speed force, seeing all these horrible things happening and can do nothing to stop any of it. He goes insane and starts trying to escape and can somehow manifest his presence in different places at different times through out history, but not enough to actually effect things outside the speed force.. This goes on and on for Barry/Savitar for what seems like eternity until he slowly figures out how to escape. In his madness he see's that the Remnant Barry Allen has screwed things up so bad and believes that He "Savitar" is the only one who can correct things but out of a sense of self preservation he realizes that in order for him to become Savitar he must allow Iris to die, because that is the primary event that causes him (his past version) to begin his path into madness... Sounds confusing I agree, but what we now have is an infinite loop though time...
I read some theory on YT too, but I forgot on which channels. How could be Savitar the First speedster and, also the future speedster? As we know that, Savitar is only a man with costume, what if, there are 2 man who became Savitar, the first Savitar is the one who Jay Garrick mantioned that he was the first Speedster. And then some how, Savitar power will be held by another man (Future Savitar). And this is make sense if Savitar is the first and the future, becausa there are two people used Savitar's Power
anyone else think its cisco he's just using his powers to make it look as if he's running fast when he's just vibing around the city plus savitar runs through the same tunnels as vibe makes to travel around .... who else could build a suit like savitar and he can vibe his way in and out of the speed force thats probably how savitar let people see him when he was trapped their and used the stone as an anchor
Wait couldn't savitar just be doing stuff in the past that people assume it means he got his powers back then so he could easily get powers with Barry there
boi i bet jay garrick low key locked himself in the speedforce and got out when wally did that thing...jay garrick flash WAS in the first flash comic book from 1940 ;)
The Savitar legend might just be a "bootstrap paradox." Jay tells present Barry about the "myth" of Savitar and at some later date, Barry turns evil and becomes Savitar. The "causal loop" is that Evil Barry didn't invent the name. It's one he first heard from Jay, who even says that his knowledge of Savitar isn't firsthand but all "speed force legends." The big question is *how* Barry becomes Savitar -- does he design the armor to intentionally look like the man who killed Iris or is it a "predestination paradox" (an accident occurs that forces him into the armor and it winds up looking like Savitar's).
He killed the rival to steal his speed like how Barry did to other speedsters in the comics when wally died, that's the only thing to me that would explain the blue lightning and why jay said about him getting stronger
I think that maybe a legend of another Savitar from earth 3, for all we know the philosopher stone may have been put on earth 1 to keep from tainting speedsters because earth 1 didn't have any,which may mean that speedsters are common on other earths in the multiverse
Jay's knowledge is what is known as myths. What happens when you have heard of myths that are not entirely true when you hear the real truth. Killing Iris early could've changed time to the point where the whole world or even the universe would be destroyed due to the butterfly theory. Remember Savitar knows what will happen because he has lived it. He is not there to change history but to make sure that it goes according to how he knows it will happen.
In the comics, Barry Allen was the first flash to get powers, because he created the speedforce. Jay Garrick tapped into the the speedforce chronologically before Barry, but after Barry as well, from the point of view of the speedforce. Of, course the speedforce also exist in an infinite present moment. Maybe like GOD. If GOD exist.
also we need to talk about how if savitar has never "challenged" jay(who I'm sure was quick back in his prime),how the hell did he just know throwing the stone into the speed force would make him stop?? (it didn't but still,I'd love to know jay's reason behind that logic),like how did he come to that conclusion all on his own?he probably didn't.... maybe someone told him to tell Barry that
with everything savitar says including what he said to iris about one of us has to die fir the other to live made me think it is future barry. he traumatized himself in a way which causes him to slowly become insane by locking himself away by himself. and the speedster only being able to see him i assume it was bc he was in the speedforce at that time and why he was so mich faster bc he was directly connected to the speedforce
Savitar is the time remnant created by Barry to defeat Zoom who got sucked into the speed force. Notice how the Lightning around the device turns white before being destroyed
Garrick said he was the first speedster. Barry Allen is the first speedster. He didn't lie. Barry is a time traveler, Barry can go to wherever he needs to be in time. Barry knew what happened in Flashpoint. So of course he could pick Flashpoint folks to restore powers to.
Here is my theory guys. The whole timeline we have been watching from season 1 is an alternate timeline per se, since in the original timeline Barry was raised by his parents, not Joe, and perhaps in the future he was not such a "goodie goodie" for that reason (he got that from Joe and this timeline's experiences, that made him a better person). In this sense, the timeline we have been watching is also a "flashpoint reality". Moreover, in the original timeline, Eobard Thawne (a.k.a the reverse flash) was supposed to kill Iris (hypothetically, based on comics etc), probably pushing the original not-as-good version of Barry to lose his mind and turn to the dark side, which may have been increased as a side effect of the Philosophers Stone that increased his powers and might have altered his mind as well. Eventually, the original (and now evil) Barry focused on enjoying his existence and become "the God of Speed", Savitar, and likes it. But since Eobard Thawne changed that reality by killing Barry's mother (and Barry became a better person raised by Joe), and, later on, is completely erased from existence (watch DC Legends of Tomorrow to understand this better), he could have no longer killed Iris and the original-future-evil-Savitar version of Barry would cease to exist without Iris' death (the "push" he needed). Therefore, in order to avoid being erased and replaced by the current/alternate Barry that we know, and to ensure that the alternate Barry that we know does indeed lose his mind and turns evil etc., original-Savitar Barry has to go back in time and kill Iris himself. That's why he told Iris that he is sorry about her having to die, but "it's you or me" (he won't exist unless she dies). As for Jay Garrick's knowledge of Savitar, being from another universe, everything Savitar may have done in his universe remained unchanged (regardless of the current alternate timeline on Earth 1), and therefore every myth/story of Savitar there still exists, even if things on Earth 1 have been altered and Savitar may never exist (unless he kills Iris himself etc.). Thoughts?
when Barry was little savitar was not a speedster yet but when Barry was getting stronger or when he turn to the flash then savitar was a speedster so maybe that's why
+airicksreloaded but thats exactly why savitar didnt kill jay garrick straight away! because he opposes NO threat to him.... and savitar literally said the answer: "its not HIS fight". obviously...
Maybe future flash isn't really from the future, but a time remnant. Probably savitar meant that he is the future, or extremely out classes the speedsters. Flash's time remnant is flash, and has absorbed part of the speed force when he took the blast trying to save Barry Allen, which is why he has that scar. That is also why savitar has been in the speed force
Savitar (Barry) is the first man given speed because he goes to the future, present, and past. When Savitar goes back to the past he gets the philosopher stone and gives himself speed as the first speedster. Anyway, this is just my theory on why he said he is the first speedster
Savitar is HR because, all Antagonists came in early episodes. For example, reverse flash was Eobart Thawne using face of Harrison Wells, Zoom came with false name Jay Garrick, therefore HR will be Savitar
Savitar was channeling the Speedforce at the beginning of the series. The stone allowed him to leave. Only speedsters could see him for that reason. As far as this show it seems it going down the drain just like Arrow Season 3/4 smh 😬
Yeah I'm guessing it's just writer confusion. The CW-verse people don't seem to have the best track record in terms of continuity. Black Out's blood sample from way back in Season 1 never gets brought back as a plot point and even gets replaced for all intents and purposes by Turtle's blood sample (also incidentally taken by Tom Cavanaugh), the mechanisms of time travel and alterations to the timeline seem to change every time we revisit them, and it's just really kind of all over the place some times. I'm guessing Savitar wasn't originally supposed to be future Barry when the writers first got started, and it just eventually gravitated toward that side, probably during the show's hiatus.
Wasn't Alchemy proved to be a red herring also (i.e., just an alter ego of Savitar, and that's why Julian works as a conduit)? That at least puts part of Jay's into question.I don't think that things being personal between Barry and Zoom necessarily undermines the idea that he's a world-traveling speedster? That Jay knows about him on Earth-3 at all would tend to lend credibility to his multiversal scope, whether most of his information is legend or not.Also, remember that, like Reverse Flash and Abra Kadabra, we're apparently seeing Savitar at a stage in his personal timeline at which he has already encountered Barry before, so at this point in his own timeline, things could have gotten personal on his own end because of that established history, which Barry hasn't experienced yet. (I.e., he either traps him in the Speed Force after they travel to the past, or he traps him in the Speed Force even in the future but because of the Speed Forces' relationship to time, Savitar gets out when Wally replaces him.) Relatedly, Flashpoint gave Savitar the idea to manipulate Wally's cockiness surrounding his powers and trick him into replacing him in the speed force, so that would explain the context for why things are going down now (though it raises questions about whether HR is in on it or an unwitting pawn, given his active assistance of Wally), and why he kills Iris in this timeline but not before Flashpoint.Some of the other stuff, I'd have to rewatch old episodes. (I don't remember how strongly they implied that Savitar had a centuries-long cult on Earth-1, or if it really only began with Julian as Alchemy.)
Savitar probably didn't kill Iris earlier because that might have interfered with the series of events that led to his creation. It's similar to how killing a younger Barry would have erased the Reverse Flash from existence
Off topic, but how did gain the ablility to control non-metas telepathically? Challenge was, how do stop someone that created you, grandfather paradox. in the comic, Flash did start the Speed Academy. And, thought on the repossession of powers was cause, what original Flash terminated the Flashpoint arc timeline, Savitar tried to recreated those metas in the post Flashpoint, as his timeline was lost. (Thought?) And by using Rival to get Wally to start his powers in the post Flashpoint, then he was useless to him.Cause he knew that Wally would take his place and Jay took his, cause of the guilt, him knowing the truth about Savitar. And Savitar wanted the trade over guilt crushing Wally in the future. Better alive , then dead.
+Logan Byrne you mean like he did with Julian? That's the biggest mystery of all, the philosophers stone. We still don't know anything about how that item came into play other than what powers it has.
That was theory, too. Unless side effct from the exposure to the Speed Force for so long.(Lame, I know). but sticking with either the Stone or the Armor.
no jay didn't lie because he just solidified his information when he told it to barry. that is because barry is savitar and he knows what he should do because jay told him, and he was the first speedster because all the other speedsters were created after barry. Also when savitar (barry) says to Iris"It's you or me." it was to say he killed her or he wouldn't exist anymore.
.Spoilers on Savitars identity ---> : It doesn't add up with future Barry becoming Savitar. The stone, being the first one granted speed, the appearance of the man in 3x09, Barry's message from 2056 in that big crossover episode. The biggest questions tom me are: What is his connection to the stone, and why does Savitar look like a guy with a giant torso but with small arms(After CGI)?
I have a question for everyone. For anyone that Savitar could be, why would that person be jealous of Barry and Iris? Because my only explanation for that is Eddie, but it doesn't seem like it's Eddie now. It doesn't even make sense with Barry because he'd have to be from another timeline or something where he's not with Iris. Edit: and if he's from the future where Iris is dead, why would he then go and kill Iris? Future Barry is one explanation for that, but why would he kill Iris?
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
Ok guys... calm down! LOL This isnt really a theory video its more of an open discussion about the information that Jay Garrick gave Barry and us the viewers vs the information that we have learned from Savitar over the course of the season. If you disagree with me thats fine, Im only talking about what we have seen on the show. So if you have a theory or explanation for what has happened over the course of this season in regards to whats myth, legend and fact, talk about in the comments! Thanks for the support! :)
airricksreloaded it is wally he was there when wally got his powers
I think of it as part of the writers fault actually. It started with the Alchemy arc. Episodes 2-10 or whichever episode Julian is unmasked. It was plot to fill in the first run of episodes before the winter break. Meta of the week coming from the Flashpoint timeline. Then the 2017 arc was until the break a month back. Now its the Finale run. TV writers think in blocks like that. So the TV plots tend to follow it. So you can't take everything as fact sadly. Pretty much Savitar was a different character before Julian became good. Then he changed.
airricksreloaded Y'all Savitar is Megatron using Ray Palmers tech to shrink him, and using the tachyon device to make him faster...
airricksreloaded well this is the flashpoint time line, so flashkid and alchemy never existed till flashpoint, Savitor cant alternate the timeline cause he is also a product of flashpoint, Savitor could be Barry Alan so if he kills the past barry alan, he wont exist
kilongo88 I love your theory.
jay said it was a legend so he couldnt have lied, thats just what he knew
this video is rubbish , lol jay just shared what he heard not what he know as fact , this guy like he dont know what is hearsay evidence ,
omg.... what if savitar isnt a man........ what if savitar is the rock? savitar is the man who the rock has in his captivity. savitar is the spirit in the rock, and this spirit in the rock takes over people until they turn into the first speedster on the earth. what if savitar is the monster that the person will turn into the myth of savitar. The first man, on the earth, to gain powers of the speedforce, gets attracted by the rock that wants to take over their body human body. in which they turn into worshipers who carry on the role to become the first speedster so in this reset of time. Eobard barry back to a time where eobard puts the stone. so what the does is he destroys someone. he kills someone that the person loves and cares about and then the person, he is controlling, the owner. the person the stone can control, whoever died to get control of their body. So this person who originally died for their loved one back, is controlled by savitar. it was first the speedster on the earth. and then he passed it on to the next speedster on the earth. which if it isnt barry it will be the reverse flash. I think the reverse flash made it so that the first speedster on his earth was barry instead of himself. so in this event, Eobard thawne, or the first speedster on the earth, gets tempted to die by the evil spirit of savitar. this has to be the strongest they will ever be. and savitar will take control of their body. this was originally given to eobard thawn who was a person who had lost someone and was originally the first speedster on his earth and he could be passing the stone on to the first speedster of his earth which maybe in a new scenario eobard thawne created a particle accelerator in which he was given speedforce powers. and became the first man to ever get speed. in which he created a new flash in which he is passing on the stone to. That is why he became harrison wells, who just so happened to be a really smart guy who turned on the particle accelerator. to gain his information, create the new flash on the earth, set off the particle accelerator and create a new flash. This explains season 1 too, the reverse flash trys to make the first flash of an earth faster. to be the fastest first flash on an earth. so maybe he gave the box to with the stone in it to a philosopher who can control different versions in time in which a person doesnt get speed first. and the way that this is done is through harrison wells, or eobard thawne. who was originally the first person of the earth to get speed. either he could be the first or he could just know about the stone and transfer it to another person on their earth. so when is the eobard thawne is the fastest speedster on an earth, he gives the stone of their earth to the person who is the fastest speedster first on an earth. which is barry. when he created flashpoint, he created an earth where wally was flash, in which he could have created a version where eobard thawne was the first speedster of his earth to be punished in this way in which he travels to a new earth and creates a flash and gets them to be the fastest speedster. in which case this version was the one where barry wasnt the fastest speedster, it was wally. and wally was the first flash of the earth in which when that changed back, this is when savitar was created to try and destroy the fastest flash in which was eobard but turned into barry. in which barry creates a new timeline where he isnt the first speedster. wally is. and when eobard thawne returns barry to the new present. he did it in a world where wally was the first speedster, and eobard thawne was the speedster who was destined to change time and create the chance for the stone to go to someone else. the fastest first speedster and "savitar" gives barry the chance to give himself over to savitar, to get the person he loves back. savitar is the last person to accept the stone by taking the thing back that they wanted most. the person they love and they lost. ill type a little more in another comment lol
this is how savitar lives. he lives when he becomes the fastest first speedster on his earth. and the speedforce needs this person to be positive that there will be a speedster on an earth. So when barry created flashpoint, he allowed himself to create a time when barry allen wasnt the fastest man alive and wally was. so this spirit is hunting barry because of eobard thawne who placed the rock of the time period of barrys turning eobard thawne who was the first speedster to go back in time and create the flash. and then cause the speedster to get faster and create the new faster speedster on an earth. im assuming eobard thawne either knew about this stone and was in danger of it(could also be he is working with savitar) gives the stone to the new fastest flash of an earth.
i dont know if this is what is happening but it is one hell of a theory, savitar could turn into anyone who touches the stone im assuming, or maybe dies by the stone. in this case jullian was the bringer of the stone to barry after jullians sister, i think or maybe girlfriend, dies and savitar offers to bring him to his sister or "get his sister back to them, if they die or killl themselves, with the stone in their hand or maybe around them, savitar can fully control the person. and he needs to control the fastest first speedster on the earth. so im assuming this was sent by eobard thawne of a time where he was the first speedster on earth. and he passes it on to another flash by creating them. in this timeline eobard thawne still exists and goes on legends for a season. This all makes sense, in this new time period, eobard thawne passed barry on to being the fastest speedster on his earth, by turning barry into a speedster and making barry the fastest speedster on his earth. im assuming the rock can turn into anyone who dies near it when it is open will inherit the disciple ship of it. so i think when barry created flashpoint and made wally a flash, he created a time where wally was the fastest speedster on an earth so when savitar got wally to take his place, he was turned into a person, because he can control the person who becomes the disciple which at first was jullian, which then became...........cisco, which now will become..... killer frost who soon will try to become barry, who is the fastest first speedster of his time im assuming eobard gave it to him to kill him and turn him into savitar. the barry version of savitar, after savitar turns into barry, creates a speedforce dungeon to keep whoever was the last speedster to be trapped by Savitar, which in this timeline, could be eobard.
Barry is Savitar
Savitar is Ezra Miller trying to destroy our Barry Allen, so he can be the only Barry Allen and the only flash in the multiverse.
The only problem with that is Barry is faster than Ezra.
The only speedster i know of that is faster than Barry is Bart Allan, Barry's grandson in the future. Also as for your point airricksreloaded about whether savatar is from the past or the future when Barry is in the speed force the speed force tells him that being in the speed force is like living in the past and future.
Dillon Thompson if our Barry is faster than Ezra Miller then that's why Ezra Miller has Megatron's armor because it enhances the speed force in him, and makes him faster, much like reverse flash using the tachyon device in season one!
That would make sense although you can't say that for a fact because we don't know what the suit exactly does. Some people think that it gives non speedsters speed so I guess it's just speculation for now. If they do decide to make Bart Savitar (highly unlikely) that would be insane most people don't know in some comics Bart is actually a bad guy so ... yeah. Biting my fingernails off for the new episode.
Dillon Thompson TBH I think Savitar is a version of Barry Allen from another timeline, who got stuck in the speed force after Barry undo's flashpoint...there was no timeline for him to return to after flashpoint was undone, so he was trapped in the speed force...thats why he claimes berry was there when he was created, and he blames Barry for taking everything away from him...He also knows everyone on team flash, who can know all that save Barry Allen himself, or should I say Savitar?
Season three of The Flash has revealed Team Flash's greatest nemeses: the writers, the CW, and logic.
Or you are just too dumb to understand how the flash universe works. :-)
Nope. He is not.
He is. :-)
i think the savitar thing makes sense
Barry is Savitar
part of me really wants savitar to female and it turns out that she wants to make Barry suffer for assuming her gender.
Lewis Baldwin lmao imagine the edginess
Lewis Baldwin *triggered*
Your comment is pure gold!
Savitar is surely Caitlin ???
No Savitar is Patty Spivot.
Plot twist. It doesn't matter who Savitar is because they're being controlled by Grodd. 😂
ET PHONE HOME spoiler it is future barry
ET PHONE HOME hummmm nope dosnt make sence hea future barry
Gary lucien you got it lol
i dont think the writers know who savitar is yet.
Tom Masters pretty sure they do if he gets revealed tomorrow
IF he gets revealed tomorrow. But in reality, what is gonna happen is that inside savitar's armor is..... another savitar armor, smaller, and with regular clothes on top for misdirect.
lol
DFC - FIFA Mobile Content actually he knew before he took the role, he said in an interview
Actually he already knew before. There's a interview with Tom Cavanagh on youtube in which they ask how he found out. And he said when he was approached for the role of Harrison Wells ''The Professor'' he Declined until they revealed that he would actually be The Reverse Flash.
So he always knew.
Speedforce rumors. Savitar is in a time loop he has always existed planting false stories each lifetime in the Speedforce. Which is why we wanted to bond with the Speedforce to exist everywhere in every time. I think lol. Savitar made Wally because he was the one he could manipulate into freeing him. Team Flash have the peace of stone therefore Wally has access to it where as The Rival was an enemy.
Savitar is theLegend27 for all speedsters.
or its just shit writing.
StevedazombieTV
Yea this show is slowly going down the drain. They're just writing without planning.
Willie Robinson like Arrow season 3 which make no fucking sense
StevedazombieTV Yeah, I wanna see how they explain how savitar is the first person to get speed.
StevedazombieTV He could still be the first person given speed by the speed force, its the whole time remnant problem again, although he is from the future in the chronology of the speed force they gave savitar his power first in 2050 etc, then move onto other speedsters, barry, jay etc. so in the passage of normal time yeah barry came first but, speed force chronology they gave speed to savitar first.
Spoder Men how didn't it add up?
Also as a side note, anyone get the feeling that Savitar isn't a "True" Speedster? I know he says Barry is there when he gets his speed but last episode kind of gave the impression that his powers come from his suite and in a previous episode the cast making mention of future technology seeming like magic to people in the present. Just something to think about
Or more than likely Garrick wasn't lieing and was telling the truth about Savitar and whoever this supposedly "Savitar" is, he is not the REAL Savitar
Two Savitar. The original and the fake Barry.
More then two. Every time one version of savitar left a time remnant for him to become savitar, a new savitar was created.
Jay Garrick, you have failed this city!
Maybe Jay is just ignorant and heard incorrect rumors .
Jay said that he learned them from "Speed Force Myths and Rumors." Myths, though based on truth, are usually blown out and false in the end.
Great Vid Man, can't wait for the reveal tomorrow(hopefully)
Connor Reed Same I'm gonna be pissed if his identity isn't revealed tomorrow
Dario Jauregui im so hyped
Connor Reed it will be, They say it in all the commercials, it will happen
I feel like the reveal is going to be so disappointing
Parmprit Parmar same
Parmprit Parmar It will be disappointing if it's Barry, that is for sure...
Parmprit Parmar most likely
You were correct
SPOILER ALERT
This is the disappointing reveal of all the shows. They didn't even try to be different from the comics. I wanted it to be anyone but future Barry.
The writers had set themselves up for a convoluted plot that they were not prepared to solve by the end of this season. It seemed like they were writing the plot as the season went along. In this case, Savitar's story has been changing because they did not know what the end identity for Savitar would be or how his story should play out at the beginning of the season. The lack of poor overall plot planning is evidenced by the fact that Tracy B-whatever introduced so late in the season. You said in your Rant and Preview that it's possible that Tracy would die quickly or replace someone on the team. But she is a key part to defeating Savitar, if not the sole solution to his demise. If she was integral to defeating the main villain of this season, she is definitely an important character that should have been introduced a long time ago. If she is going to die super quickly at the end, then she's just a deus ex machina for the show. All of the inconsistencies you pointed are legitimate, and I think that's due to the writers' lack of planning for this season. I also don't think the writers will have Savitar's identity solve all of those inconsistencies by the season finale. Only recently has Savitar's story stayed somewhat consistent: he's someone that Barry and KF/CS knows; he's played with time travel, either coming back to the past or from the future; and he has some personal vendetta against the Flash. I'm just overall very disappointed and tired with the writers with constant inconsistencies and just poor writing with season 3.
MintChocChip100 like Arrow season 3 which make no fucking sense
MintChocChip10 i think they plan all the plots of the shows a year before they release. :) but yeah i agree that some of the episodes are like fillers only except for Season 3 B part
well then it must be some poor planning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MintChocChip100 of course they don't know what to do with Savitar .. He's a villain of Wally West when he took over as Flash in the comics ... do they're making up a story trying to stay in line with the comics but they can't beckus Barry is not the Flash who fought Savitar
the writers change the direction of season when this episode aired. Honestly not happy about how this season going since winter break no real movement on the story. I rather than them spend more time in flashpoint than on Savitar
He could be lying.. or it could just be CW logic, ya never know lol
Most likely cw logic
Most likely CW Logic! LOL
CW "Logic" for sure! But c'mon, let's speculate and make some "nothing the show showed contradicts this" hypotheses for the fun of it! Not like CW is gonna deliver us as much fun otherwise :(
Paul Smith he definitely did.. Because Barry finds out next week, So that means Future Barry knows, But did he like because he's Savitar, or he knows, or Because he knows, and he knows it'll mess Barry up, so he's keeping him safe
addidaswguy that Barry never found out in his timeline. Wally can't talk and Miller Frost won't so he never bothered to fun out AFTER Iris died.
savitar says its either you or me because furture flash is savitar and barry doesnt become sacitar unless iris dies, thats why he says only one of us can exist
Jay was relating 'stories' he heard about Savitar. So we can't say that Jay was misleading coz he was not stating facts, but rather thoughts from others. What Jay said does not have to be true!
Maybe Jay became Savitar after Barry forgot to/couldnt figure out how to, get Jay out of that speed force prison after he switched places with Wally. Savitar did say Barry trapped him in the speed force and called him cruel and a liar. He may have been there so long it drove him mad. Maybe Barry can "undo" Savitar simply by freeing Jay 🤔
Savitar is CISCOOOO!!!
"Hiding in plain sight, stewing with hate!"
Lost his BROTHER and his HANDS!... AND, the POWERS that came with them as a direct result of Barry's actions!
I'D BE PISSED TOO! Check out the "beginning stage" of his/Savitar's suit wrapped in plastic hanging in the background during season 3 episode 19. ( In the scenes between Barry and Cisco.) They showed it a several times!... He wasn't the only thing hiding in plain sight. lol
He RESENTS, Barry for not only causing Dante's death by going back to save his mother WITHOUT
CONSULTING TEAM FLASH, but also, for refusing to do the same for his brother... Since HE caused his death in the first place.
Who else ticks all the necessary boxes, hate, loathing, loss, personal knowledge, etc, etc AND has the technical and scientific wizardry to make that sweet suit, BUT Cisco?... The answer is NOBODY!
When was the SEED/IDEA FIRST planted in Cisco's head for SAVITAR?
Reverb to Cisco in Season 2 episode 13:
Reverb: "What if Zoom wasn't running the show anymore?"
Cisco: "What do you mean?"
Reverb: "You don't even know how powerful you are, all you use your powers for, are these cheap parlor tricks, when you, you could be a GOD".... When we, could be GODS"
Hahahaha, the GERMINATION of SAVITAR GOD OF SPEED!
He could have killed Wally, BUT he didn't, he could have killed Jessie Quick, BUT he didn't, he could have killed HR, BUT he didn't. He kills the ONE person Barry loves the MOST, and in doing so, causes MAXIMUM DAMAGE in every possible way!
SO, he decides to give Barry the ultimate MIDDLE FINGER for Dante... BUT, he decided to do it creatively, by making it a METAL MIDDLE FINGER through Iris' BACK!!! lololol I crack me up!!!!
BOOM!!!!... (drops mike and leaves room)
The writers used Jay Garrick as misdirection for fans, sending them down all these different rabbit holes. Love it!!!
blacksnakemagic i totally agree... ive been saying the same thing all over the place. The fact that barrys time travelling killed dante and he NEVER bothered to go back for him is a big low blow to Cisco. Cisco even mentioned how he let his brother die but goes back for everyone he cares about. Its obvious people. Look how savitar moves too... he jumps through BREACHES... nuff said.
blacksnakemagic Doesnt make complete sense but better than a lot of theories. Anythings possible on cw so i dont rule out anyone's but some seem unlikely
@ The_Truth 100 -- We're definitely on the same wavelength! Here's to tomorrow night! 🍻 Cheers!!
@ MarvellousJason -- The one singular problem for me, on the "Barry = Savitar" is, that Barry does not possess the engineering and scientific prowess to build that suit.
Ever wonder why savitar's lightning emblem resembles Jay Garrick's?
MarvellousJason just a suggestion
MarvellousJason You shouldn't be getting fired up over these kinds of things
I think they are hostile because you called them out on their idiocy.
He didn't kill iris then because
1. He was still stuck in SpeedForce
2. He had to make sure that Barry thought he would win with his bazooka but then it didn't then he begs and then his love dies
But he didnt lie
Savitar went back in time and spread those myths so he can technically be the first speedster
would it be weird if Savitar is an alternate timeline evil version of Joe West...
mizu88KA It would be so fucking awesome. i suspected joe since the beginning. but i don't think they're going that way. and why would Joe kill Iris anyway?
Ilyess De Bates Maybe its Joe from the timeline. when Barry first fought against Weather Wizard. Barry rescues Joe from Weather Wizard, Gorilla Grood, Zoom...starting to see a pattern...
mizu88KA probably cause joe didn't get his McDonald's
Am I the only one who is watching the video knowing savitar is a time remminent of future Barry Allen.
what if when Jay decided to stay trapped in the speed force he "created himself". Just a crazy theory
Jays known what's been happening since the beginning and not because he's Savitar. He's not. The diner scene. No one believes me but I've said it for months. Instead of saying "when we first met" Jay said to Barry "when you first met me". I don't think it's a writing thing and it was purposely said that way. Jay met Real Barry after everything gets fixed. Without going into my big long theory Barry, Savitar, and future Barry are all the same remnant and real Barry's trapped. Jays playing his part to get Barry back.
Chris Topher this is deep!
Holy shit
*Mind blown*
Watch clips thinking Barry's a remnant and it all makes sense.. in my head. Remnant created flashpoint which created killer Frost which is why Savitar called her "my child"
so where is the real barry? so you are saying the flash right now is a remnant that will eventually become the flash 2024 and then that flash will become savitar? I think as the flash from 2024 stated that flash from 2017 is going to create numerous remnants and savitar will kill most of them. I think one of them will become savitar while one will stay on being the flash.
real Barry burnt up fighting Zoom. Remnant appeared on Barrys left and took off to free Joe. Zoom attacked him stopped looked at him and said "a remnant, stole my trick flash". Everybody says what about Savitars comma. Zoom had a comma too. I think it's a time loop. Once it comes full circle everything goes back to normal. Another good clip to watch thinking he's a remnant is him explaining flashpoint everybody.
Technically, Barry is the first speedster
Also, in the comics, Barry is the reason the speed force exists
So, Jay isn't that wrong
I feel like the answer to all of your questions is: unrealistic and crappy writing
Jack Taylor Also it's changing writers every episode, what Jay was telling sounded awesome but would be dismissed with the next writer
My theory is that there are actually Two Savitars. The first Savitar is the one known for the legend that Jay talks about, he got his speed from the Philosopher Stone and he visits different earths to challenge speedsters and prove he is the best of them all. He doesn't have a metal suit or anything, he is just an ex-pilot who got thrust into the speed force by accident. The second Savitar is actually Barry's time remnant who was stuck in the speed force, found the philosopher stone and got super mad duper speed, and assumed the Identity of Savitar to confuse and mislead Barry. This could also potentially open up the possibility of the real Savitar showing up in Season 4
jay garrick is savitar because jay garrick took the place of wally in the speed force. meaning jay garrick is in the speed force long enough to be a bad guy and turned into savitar
Allen Ma
It's Barry.
I'll choke all these questions up to bad writing. S3 Flash hasn't been at all on par with the last two seasons. The way the handles Flash Point was horrible. Savitar/Future Barry hasn't been a bad villain, but it felt like at least the first half of the season, S3 should have been completely all about Flash Point and they should used Arrow some in Flash Point, or rather Oliver's dad as Arrow and used that with the Legends to fix time and do a mega cross over as the Legends could easily be explained by being outside of time, so they were never affected by FP.
FP was suppose to be this big epic story line, but sadly for the most part this season has been a pretty big let down compared to other seasons.
It's safe to say this season of the flash is one big MESS.
I still think that it is all about the SpeedForce challenging Barry Allen. Don't forget how SpeedForce were playing with Barry when Barry messed up with previous timeline. It's important to note that Flash must be after all a "hero" no matter happens after all tragedy ... even losing her love (Iris West) ... It doesn't matter who is Savitar but i think it is important why he is here, now ...
What if we're getting mandarin'ed in a very useless Iron Man 3 way by the showrunners and the Savitar we have on the show isn't actually Savitar but someone else ( Alternate Barry or someone else ) who's posing as Savitar using thee legend to strengthen his aura of Bad Guy. Saying this because including a version of HR that is a storyteller and theatrically enclined for a lack of better wording made 0 sense in itself at the beginning of the season. The more I think about it I assume we may have overlooked a major detail ( which could be who is listening to HR's stories now and in the future )
Moose Islay can you explain what you mean about HR?
Well to me it made no sense to have a version of Wells coming to the show and him being, on paper, totally useless in a fight against anything because he is not a scientist, a meta, or particularily enclined to fight crime. But he tells stories, makes up things and he cons people for a living. I don't think he has been brought on the show as regular character because he was a funny idea but because they planned an arc for him and we haven't seen it through yet, plus he has to be useful at some point in order to stop Savitar (or even create Savitar maybe) using his skills ^^
Moose Islay it does make sense. At this point, any one of them could be Savitar. I wouldn't be shocked even it was Joe West!
hahaha the reveal has kinda lost its momentum but hopefully we'll discover it tonight at the end of the episode :p
future barry becomes salivitar because he got back into being the flash and kept on pushing and got better etc. then the flashpoint stuff happens with becoming the speed force ,and some how he escapes from the speed force
Listen to the message by 2056 Barry. His voice is closest to savitar a
Evan Lorenz Eh...
Then again, Jay also said they are all myths/legends (which can be interpreted differently over time).
Because it's the CW I assume it's just bad writing, although I'm less used to it on flash
But when Barry asks Jay : How do you know all this ???
Jay says : Speed force myths, legends, rumors.
So yes, Jay can be wrong but maybe he is not lying.
You make a good point. The way I see it (just a few points, won't try to connect them).
Savitar is the "fist" known speedster due to his trapping in the speed force and having access to any point in time from there, and people *assumed* he was the first man granted speed since they dont know his origins and don't know he isn't moving forward in time, but going zig zag. From their perspective, he has just always existed before all other speedsters.
Cult of Savitar: I think the cult of Savitar has more to do with his Savitar's god complex (that is the main reason, which is mostly separate from Barry or Flashpoint - in E1, when Flaspoint happened, he got creative and took the chance to fiddle with it).
Savitar going after other speedsters: I have two hypothesis. One, he does it not cause they're fast enough to challenge him (that is their assumption), he does it cause he is crazy and he has time to kill (haha) since he is trapped in the speedforce and isn't time yet for his revenge. Man needs a hobby you know. Of course, people only observing his actions and nto knowing his motivations, agian, that is what it looked like to people instead of the actual motivation. Second hypothesis: Savitar is a creation of the speedforce that doesn't goes after peedsters who can challenge it, but (a) Savitar goes to challenge and test speedsters who have shown to have achieve enough power to do shit like fuck up timelines but who the speedforce isnt sure they can handle it (you know, like traveling back in time everytime you grief and messing with the timeline massively).
Of course, there is the chance that the writers fucked up, or that a future speedforced crazied version of Jay dueto being trapped there is Savitar (I have defended that theory until the preview for today's episode, that one just made me confused) and somehow this future version intentionally planted all the misinformation that past Jay learned as part of his revenge plan. But in the former case it is just too easy to dismiss as such and not as fun, and the latter... I don't think I want to give the producers and writers of this show that much credit for thinking that much ahead. I would love if they pulled something so detailed ahead and so well cordinated, but until now I don't trust them to do so.
in the comic books when Barry Allen was struck by lightning he created the speed force in the speed force scratches through out time and space so in fact he could be the first person granted speed at that moment in time
I miss the Season 1 quality writing where the villian was mysterious yet obvious from the first episode, with sound logic and motivation. The harder they try to mystify the villian and deceive the viewers, the more bullshit reasoning we get during the reveal. This was the reason why making Zolomon Jay's copycat was disappointing. It was a good 'WTF' moment at the time but in the end it turned Zoom into a psycho without understandable motivation. I feel like the same is going to happen to Savitar minus the 'WTF' moment.
At this point there were so many theories of who the Savitar can be that no matter who is hiding behind the suit, it will be either predictable or bullshit or both. There are no characters in the Arrowverse left that aren't suspects but none of them make sense. As of now there is no character on the show that has a serious grudge against Barry, has connection to Philosopher Stone, who would want to kill Iris and whom Caitlyn/Killer Frost would trust instantly. They successfully managed to write themselves into a corner.
Techurious true
Savitar has stated that he "loves a good myth" which would maybe contribute to the stories jay told Barry. Clearly he was toying with Team Flash for the whole season as he already lived the events and is aware if what's going to happen. The whole point of Savitar being there was to find a way out of the speed force and to basically make Team Flash aware that the future is going to happen no matter how hard they fight which essentially leads pushing Barry to the breaking point where he can become Savitar.
Man first only Speedsters can see Savitar. Only way non-speedsters was able to see him was after Wally freed him from the speedforce. To be honest your over thinking it a little
well its simple Savatr goes to fight other Speedsters after Barry makes the armor that makes him Savatr which he does some time after 2024, meaning he goes off tomorrow
Savitar used wally because he knew that it would get to barry if it was someone he loved
its amazing how literally all these questions were answered throughout the season like cw was watching the video going."ok got that" "thats right" "yup"
It was a speedster legend. Savitar, inside the speed force, was able to spread his legend throughout time.
Savitar is Barry's time remnant that was used to stop zoom and that's what he meant by him being in the speed force long enough to drive him mad
Jay did state that they were rumours. Rumours can be true or false or both combined. Telling Barry something in this case but at the same time stating they could be false is better than not telling him anything.
7:00 Why Savitar DID NOT kill Jay outright?
Villains with MEGALOMANIA EGOS usually prove they are powerful by being TALKATIVE (while having the upper hand) before delivering a deadly or crippling blow to their enemies.
7:30 Why Savitar DID NOT kill yet Iris?
Savitar was setting to kill up Iris in a specific time to give MAXIMUM PAIN to Barry, so Barry would be distraught so much to become Savitar later.
With so much pain... Good Guys turn themselves to the Dark Side of the Force.
When Savitar says Barry is there when he creates himself he could be referring to the persona ''Savitar'' When Iris is murdered it could cause a version of Barry to become Savitar.
HE say "I created myself" and "You will be there when I am created" Yeeee becouse Barry made a Time remenent when he thought Zoom and it got destoyed into the speedforce.
New theory: Remember when Caitlin visited that random Savitar disciple at his house (S3E7)? Maybe Savitar is the future version of that guy. Why not? That would explain her trust, since he already predicted the future, and the disciples apparently have specific knowledge about Team Flash members (as demonstrated by this one knowing who she was).
What is savitar is Barry from a future in which he DID save Iris, and then something major went down that made him realise that he needed her to die, and so he goes back in time to kill her. Which would explain how the future Barry weve alreasy seen isnt Savitar
the savitar trapped in the speed force was the one that future barry defeated, then he manipulates the creation of wally/kidflash (because in the speed force he could see the flaspoint universe ) to release himself in the past
he also didnt kill iris before because he was still trapped in the speedforce. it wasnt that he couldnt kill her of course he could kill her so fast she wouldnt even know she was dead yet but that could drastically effect the future and he still needed wally west to get faster to open the breach and if iris died that would break team flash and wally could potentially quit or have a mental block and would not get the training he needed. You clearly saw it took barry and alot of other things to help wally get faster and you clearly see in the last episode iris death broke the entire team
For weeks I thought it was Jay simply because it's always a speedster that's been mentoring Barry. Then when Jay randomly found Barry and trapped himself in the speed force, that's when I really thought he was Savitar.
While it may just be the negligence in show writing, i feel like the savitar jay described may be a separate entity and be the "true" god of speed while the savitar we've been seeing (the one with a personal grudge on barry) is an egomaniac who named himself after the real one (judging by how he stated he "loved a good myth").
With the swat getting knocked down by savitar ,the thing is speedsters can only see him but others can feel or touch him
Lol I'm all caught up on the flash to date but your video came in my feed. My view on Savitar given everything we know now as vewiers, I believe that maybe there is a different version of Savitar on Jays world.
Ok In the comics it says that Barry Allen was the first Flash and all other speedsters (past and present) are connected via the speed force to that singular event.. Now If Barry is the first speedster then it stands to reason that at some point in his future he may have lost his mind and decides to correct what he perceives as mistakes in his past while simultaneously insuring that his evolution into Savitar becomes reality.... OR When Barry Allen created the time Remnant to defeat Zoom it was the Original Barry that sacrificed himself and the Barry Allen that survived is actually the time remnant.. If the Original Barry in fact did trap himself in the speed force he would have potentially been able to see everything his remnant did after that event (creating flashpoint, seeing Iris die, and his friends falling apart) As we Know, When someone is in the Speed force, they have the potential to see past, present and future events and also that time itself means nothing. So here he is, Trapped in the speed force, seeing all these horrible things happening and can do nothing to stop any of it. He goes insane and starts trying to escape and can somehow manifest his presence in different places at different times through out history, but not enough to actually effect things outside the speed force.. This goes on and on for Barry/Savitar for what seems like eternity until he slowly figures out how to escape. In his madness he see's that the Remnant Barry Allen has screwed things up so bad and believes that He "Savitar" is the only one who can correct things but out of a sense of self preservation he realizes that in order for him to become Savitar he must allow Iris to die, because that is the primary event that causes him (his past version) to begin his path into madness... Sounds confusing I agree, but what we now have is an infinite loop though time...
I read some theory on YT too, but I forgot on which channels.
How could be Savitar the First speedster and, also the future speedster?
As we know that, Savitar is only a man with costume, what if, there are 2 man who became Savitar, the first Savitar is the one who Jay Garrick mantioned that he was the first Speedster. And then some how, Savitar power will be held by another man (Future Savitar).
And this is make sense if Savitar is the first and the future, becausa there are two people used Savitar's Power
anyone else think its cisco he's just using his powers to make it look as if he's running fast when he's just vibing around the city plus savitar runs through the same tunnels as vibe makes to travel around .... who else could build a suit like savitar and he can vibe his way in and out of the speed force thats probably how savitar let people see him when he was trapped their and used the stone as an anchor
Wait couldn't savitar just be doing stuff in the past that people assume it means he got his powers back then so he could easily get powers with Barry there
boi i bet jay garrick low key locked himself in the speedforce and got out when wally did that thing...jay garrick flash WAS in the first flash comic book from 1940 ;)
Man I forgot about Rival until now. I wish they'd use these side villians as more than just 'villian of the week'.
The Savitar legend might just be a "bootstrap paradox." Jay tells present Barry about the "myth" of Savitar and at some later date, Barry turns evil and becomes Savitar. The "causal loop" is that Evil Barry didn't invent the name. It's one he first heard from Jay, who even says that his knowledge of Savitar isn't firsthand but all "speed force legends." The big question is *how* Barry becomes Savitar -- does he design the armor to intentionally look like the man who killed Iris or is it a "predestination paradox" (an accident occurs that forces him into the armor and it winds up looking like Savitar's).
He killed the rival to steal his speed like how Barry did to other speedsters in the comics when wally died, that's the only thing to me that would explain the blue lightning and why jay said about him getting stronger
I think that maybe a legend of another Savitar from earth 3, for all we know the philosopher stone may have been put on earth 1 to keep from tainting speedsters because earth 1 didn't have any,which may mean that speedsters are common on other earths in the multiverse
Jay's knowledge is what is known as myths. What happens when you have heard of myths that are not entirely true when you hear the real truth. Killing Iris early could've changed time to the point where the whole world or even the universe would be destroyed due to the butterfly theory. Remember Savitar knows what will happen because he has lived it. He is not there to change history but to make sure that it goes according to how he knows it will happen.
So I just thought about this. But how does Savitar remember what happened when he was captured by the trap? Is Savitar caught in a causeality loop?
In the comics, Barry Allen was the first flash to get powers, because he created the speedforce. Jay Garrick tapped into the the speedforce chronologically before Barry, but after Barry as well, from the point of view of the speedforce. Of, course the speedforce also exist in an infinite present moment. Maybe like GOD. If GOD exist.
also we need to talk about how if savitar has never "challenged" jay(who I'm sure was quick back in his prime),how the hell did he just know throwing the stone into the speed force would make him stop?? (it didn't but still,I'd love to know jay's reason behind that logic),like how did he come to that conclusion all on his own?he probably didn't.... maybe someone told him to tell Barry that
with everything savitar says including what he said to iris about one of us has to die fir the other to live made me think it is future barry. he traumatized himself in a way which causes him to slowly become insane by locking himself away by himself. and the speedster only being able to see him i assume it was bc he was in the speedforce at that time and why he was so mich faster bc he was directly connected to the speedforce
The rival is savitar guy because the rival is a time remnant or savitar and that's why savitar kills his own time remnant
Savitar is the time remnant created by Barry to defeat Zoom who got sucked into the speed force. Notice how the Lightning around the device turns white before being destroyed
Garrick said he was the first speedster. Barry Allen is the first speedster. He didn't lie.
Barry is a time traveler, Barry can go to wherever he needs to be in time.
Barry knew what happened in Flashpoint. So of course he could pick Flashpoint folks to restore powers to.
Well in Jay's defense he did say that he heard Speedforce rumours, so those rumours could have been wrong in the first place.
Here is my theory guys. The whole timeline we have been watching from
season 1 is an alternate timeline per se, since in the original timeline
Barry was raised by his parents, not Joe, and perhaps in the future he
was not such a "goodie goodie" for that reason (he got that from Joe and
this timeline's experiences, that made him a better person). In this
sense, the timeline we have been watching is also a "flashpoint
reality". Moreover, in the original timeline, Eobard Thawne (a.k.a the
reverse flash) was supposed to kill Iris (hypothetically, based on
comics etc), probably pushing the original not-as-good version of Barry
to lose his mind and turn to the dark side, which may have been
increased as a side effect of the Philosophers Stone that increased his
powers and might have altered his mind as well. Eventually, the original
(and now evil) Barry focused on enjoying his existence and become "the
God of Speed", Savitar, and likes it. But since Eobard Thawne changed
that reality by killing Barry's mother (and Barry became a better person
raised by Joe), and, later on, is completely erased from existence
(watch DC Legends of Tomorrow to understand this better), he could have
no longer killed Iris and the original-future-evil-Savitar version of
Barry would cease to exist without Iris' death (the "push" he needed).
Therefore, in order to avoid being erased and replaced by the
current/alternate Barry that we know, and to ensure that the alternate
Barry that we know does indeed lose his mind and turns evil etc.,
original-Savitar Barry has to go back in time and kill Iris himself.
That's why he told Iris that he is sorry about her having to die, but
"it's you or me" (he won't exist unless she dies). As for Jay Garrick's knowledge of Savitar, being from another universe, everything Savitar may have done in his universe remained unchanged (regardless of the current alternate timeline on Earth 1), and therefore every myth/story of Savitar there still exists, even if things on Earth 1 have been altered and Savitar may never exist (unless he kills Iris himself etc.). Thoughts?
when Barry was little savitar was not a speedster yet but when Barry was getting stronger or when he turn to the flash then savitar was a speedster so maybe that's why
+airicksreloaded but thats exactly why savitar didnt kill jay garrick straight away! because he opposes NO threat to him.... and savitar literally said the answer: "its not HIS fight". obviously...
Maybe future flash isn't really from the future, but a time remnant. Probably savitar meant that he is the future, or extremely out classes the speedsters. Flash's time remnant is flash, and has absorbed part of the speed force when he took the blast trying to save Barry Allen, which is why he has that scar. That is also why savitar has been in the speed force
This is just a theory so don't rip on me
Savitar (Barry) is the first man given speed because he goes to the future, present, and past. When Savitar goes back to the past he gets the philosopher stone and gives himself speed as the first speedster. Anyway, this is just my theory on why he said he is the first speedster
Savitar is HR because, all Antagonists came in early episodes. For example, reverse flash was Eobart Thawne using face of Harrison Wells, Zoom came with false name Jay Garrick, therefore HR will be Savitar
Savitar was channeling the Speedforce at the beginning of the series. The stone allowed him to leave. Only speedsters could see him for that reason.
As far as this show it seems it going down the drain just like Arrow Season 3/4 smh 😬
Yeah I'm guessing it's just writer confusion. The CW-verse people don't seem to have the best track record in terms of continuity. Black Out's blood sample from way back in Season 1 never gets brought back as a plot point and even gets replaced for all intents and purposes by Turtle's blood sample (also incidentally taken by Tom Cavanaugh), the mechanisms of time travel and alterations to the timeline seem to change every time we revisit them, and it's just really kind of all over the place some times. I'm guessing Savitar wasn't originally supposed to be future Barry when the writers first got started, and it just eventually gravitated toward that side, probably during the show's hiatus.
Wasn't Alchemy proved to be a red herring also (i.e., just an alter ego of Savitar, and that's why Julian works as a conduit)? That at least puts part of Jay's into question.I don't think that things being personal between Barry and Zoom necessarily undermines the idea that he's a world-traveling speedster? That Jay knows about him on Earth-3 at all would tend to lend credibility to his multiversal scope, whether most of his information is legend or not.Also, remember that, like Reverse Flash and Abra Kadabra, we're apparently seeing Savitar at a stage in his personal timeline at which he has already encountered Barry before, so at this point in his own timeline, things could have gotten personal on his own end because of that established history, which Barry hasn't experienced yet. (I.e., he either traps him in the Speed Force after they travel to the past, or he traps him in the Speed Force even in the future but because of the Speed Forces' relationship to time, Savitar gets out when Wally replaces him.) Relatedly, Flashpoint gave Savitar the idea to manipulate Wally's cockiness surrounding his powers and trick him into replacing him in the speed force, so that would explain the context for why things are going down now (though it raises questions about whether HR is in on it or an unwitting pawn, given his active assistance of Wally), and why he kills Iris in this timeline but not before Flashpoint.Some of the other stuff, I'd have to rewatch old episodes. (I don't remember how strongly they implied that Savitar had a centuries-long cult on Earth-1, or if it really only began with Julian as Alchemy.)
Savitar probably didn't kill Iris earlier because that might have interfered with the series of events that led to his creation. It's similar to how killing a younger Barry would have erased the Reverse Flash from existence
Savitar went back in time and created a myth about himself as the god of speed that's why they think he was the first person granted speed
Off topic, but how did gain the ablility to control non-metas telepathically? Challenge was, how do stop someone that created you, grandfather paradox. in the comic, Flash did start the Speed Academy. And, thought on the repossession of powers was cause, what original Flash terminated the Flashpoint arc timeline, Savitar tried to recreated those metas in the post Flashpoint, as his timeline was lost. (Thought?) And by using Rival to get Wally to start his powers in the post Flashpoint, then he was useless to him.Cause he knew that Wally would take his place and Jay took his, cause of the guilt, him knowing the truth about Savitar. And Savitar wanted the trade over guilt crushing Wally in the future. Better alive , then dead.
+Logan Byrne you mean like he did with Julian? That's the biggest mystery of all, the philosophers stone. We still don't know anything about how that item came into play other than what powers it has.
That was theory, too. Unless side effct from the exposure to the Speed Force for so long.(Lame, I know). but sticking with either the Stone or the Armor.
no jay didn't lie because he just solidified his information when he told it to barry. that is because barry is savitar and he knows what he should do because jay told him, and he was the first speedster because all the other speedsters were created after barry. Also when savitar (barry) says to Iris"It's you or me." it was to say he killed her or he wouldn't exist anymore.
Saying you are the future does not equate to being from the future . . .
.Spoilers on Savitars identity ---> : It doesn't add up with future Barry becoming Savitar. The stone, being the first one granted speed, the appearance of the man in 3x09, Barry's message from 2056 in that big crossover episode. The biggest questions tom me are: What is his connection to the stone, and why does Savitar look like a guy with a giant torso but with small arms(After CGI)?
I have a question for everyone. For anyone that Savitar could be, why would that person be jealous of Barry and Iris? Because my only explanation for that is Eddie, but it doesn't seem like it's Eddie now. It doesn't even make sense with Barry because he'd have to be from another timeline or something where he's not with Iris.
Edit: and if he's from the future where Iris is dead, why would he then go and kill Iris? Future Barry is one explanation for that, but why would he kill Iris?