The problem is that shiv is making arguments that *she* or other political insiders would find convincing, while Roman is making arguments that Logan would find compelling
@@willg7279Exactly! The fact that they think having a stake in the fight for "Who will win?" matters whatsoever is ridiculously hysterical yet undeniably plausible. The entire puppet show is a facade.
I think what people miss about the “look” between Kerry and Logan is that they both realized that no matter if you’re for or against him - Mencken generates a *reaction* in people, love or hate, there’s no middle ground. And whether Mencken wins or loses, he will be DYNAMITE for their ratings. Logan truly doesn’t care about how Mencken will impact the country, as long as he gets more viewers tuned into ATN.
@@SuperiFox I think the whole episode was meant to be gross. We start with Rome suggesting that Logan is fooling around with his assistant, and that puts the bad taste in your mouth. You forget about it, then you have the part where Milton creeped on Connor's girlfriend, and that's like "ugh", and finally, the looks between Logan and Kerry at the end put me into a dry heave. All of this against the backdrop of a republican event for privileged, malignant assholes. The word for this episode is "Nausea".
@AL Well, it's a private party for top Republican donors where they decide who to back for the US presidency. You might say it's a "privilege" to be invited to something like that, and probably only people who are very wealthy would even be considered. Not everyone is wealthy, and many who are were lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family, like the Roys. You might even say having a lot of wealth is a "privilege" too. So, that's why I call them privileged. Also, I never said "privileged white republican". For some reason, you added that in yourself. Maybe you think you're fighting your Fox News Internet Holy War with me, but what I said was: "privileged, malignant assholes." Do you know what a malignant asshole is? It's somebody who pretends to misunderstand things so they can make bad-faith arguments, like you! Somebody who tries to make life worse for others to make themselves feel important. So, that's my good deed for the day. You can pick and choose individual words to take out of context, exaggerate, and be offended by, but I'm not giving you any more explanations.
This episode really showed Shiv's massive failings. The fact she thought getting Logan to swing blue was even possible, the fact she keeps using these 'what's better for the country' arguments, the facts she thinks her experience means anything to Logan... Very similar tō Kendal in my view - neither understand, even after so long around Logan, how his mind works. Roman seems to be the only one who gets it. He sees what Logan wants and adjusts his message to suit that. I hate this guy they've picked and Roman is a terrible person, but their pick is clearly the best from a 'lets make a shit load of money' standpoint and Roman is clearly the most onto it sibling at the moment.
He's dangerous, I agree . Not many could control such guy with unlimited power. Unless they share the same interests. Which Logan does, but his children, not so much . I think it's incredibly irresponsible to make such an alliance with a foot inside a grave
Kendall did pander to his dad until he realized in S1 nothing he will do will ever satisfy him. Hence the take over attempt. Then that failed because of a classic Kendall self destruction. Shiv is just living in lala land and thinks she’s way better than she actually is.
@@chicagoanuntilchicagoends1646 I think Shiv is pretty good, but Logan is just really good. Against his kids, he has all the cards. She is cunning, ruthless and a good strategist, but like all his kids, she is arrogant and entitled. She revealed in season 2 that she has all kinds of tangible ideas and plans to fix Waystar (unlike Roman and Ken, who speak about the future only in colourful jargon), but instead of going in and putting in her time, getting shit done on the ground, she stomped into the C-Suite, put out her hand and said "GIMME!" and nobody liked it. Logan set her up for this. He knew she would embarrass herself reaching for the top spot, and that he would gain one more pawn to protect him from the consequences of this actions. She was used to try to get Pierce, then she was used to ward-off the sexual misconduct allegations, and she's being blocked from advancing within Waystar because the rank-and-file dislike her. He has forced her to whittle-down her credibility in the outside world and made her entirely beholden to him. He's just really good.
Exactly, Logan only cares about Logan. Shiv is too nice and soft to ever be the CEO of a manipulative media mega-corp like Waystar. I mean you don't become a billionaire by being considerate.
@@kevincarter2020Her opinion would count more if she were in her familiar forte as part of a politician's team. However in this situation, her opinion at very best only matches to Roman's and realistically that's not the scenario. She is out of her depth in the corporate scene with no authentic experience. She doesn't understand Logan's priority in this scene which is part of why this moment becomes a massive loss for her. She's showing her father that she's indeed not a serious person.
Roman actually being competent and learning from Gerri seems to have been the worst-case scenario, but with any luck, Kendall will find something bad on him and Logan will have to go with Plan B, Connor.
Roman will self implode. Remember the satellite launch? This deal will be like that. I think every child of Logan's will fail unless they band together to offset each other's weaknesses.
Bit of a late reply but no she isn't. Selgado, I believe, promised her to put her dad in jail and Shiv in the C-suite. She was arguing for Logan to go blue so that she could become CEO. There''s the potential argument that in s4 when she was advocating against calling the election for Menken was where beliefs came into play. But I'd argue that even then she was opposing because she knew the CE-bros were going to use the regulatory avenue to stop the deal. So even that was self-preservation.
Kind of weird to see people saying that Shiv is intolerable here, when Roman and Logan are agreeing to push a literal fascist to be next president. It's interesting to see how much it scares her, especially the "he's f*cking dangerous" line where her voice is shaking a little bit
@@Pablo-di8cf They're all pretty awful, but Shiv the worst? Logan knew the existence of and covered up sexual abuse within his cruise division for years. He covered up a death for Kendall. Logan is genuinely evil. Roman accelerated the production of a satellite launch which blew up and if not for extreme luck, could have killed several people. He's also backing a fascist who has joked semi seriously about creating work camps and echoes talking points of the extreme far right, including being willing to take good pitches from Franco and "H". Roman backs him ,despite this, because it brings money and views to ATN. I find it hard to believe that Shiv is the worst of the Roy's, it's just that she's had the most significant change so far considering that in season 1 she was relatively clear of wrongdoing
Shiv was fired by Gil for perfectly understandable reasons. She tried to spin it by saying she quit but it was implied that everyone knew what really happened. Shiv doesn't know what she's doing. She's too emotional and hot headed to run anything.
After the episode after this I think Shiv is headed for a break with Logan a la Kendall. I don't think she "joins" Kendall because, well, join him in what at this point. Not only that, I could see her breaking with Tom and Tom staying with team Logan. At a certain point I don't know why Kendall and Shiv wouldn't simply let themselves be bought out. I'd take the 2 billion and fuck off from all these people.
Yes Best move for the kids is to leave the game of the Succession, because in order to win you have to lose everything and everyone else (the remains of familial relations). And then just start your own shit, that doesn’t involve manipulating people and supporting hate-selling politicians. 2 billions is more than enough
@@bestiebombshell6368 what? Shiv is an awful person, Skylar is just an average person. There’s no reason to hate Skylar for sure, but Shiv is literally abusive to her husband, scared a rape victim out of testifying, and publicly gaslit her brother
There's plenty of reason to hate Skylar. She smoked while pregnant with Walt Jr, resulting in him being disabled, and her smoking probably caused Walt's lung cancer, then she doesn't learn her lesson and smokes while pregnant with her daughter and while near her cradle.
@@capo328 that’s actually not true. Smoking while pregnant is not a cause for cerebral palsy, the disease Walt Jr. has. She smokes while pregnant with her daughter because she’s stressed out as fuck due to her husband being a drug dealing sociopath. If you think Skylar is a bad person you either have excessively high moral standards or you’re a misogynist
The problem is that shiv is making arguments that *she* or other political insiders would find convincing, while Roman is making arguments that Logan would find compelling
Pre-fucking-cisely. Beautifully put.
Political insiders have the tendency to be right about absolutely nothing
@@willg7279Exactly! The fact that they think having a stake in the fight for "Who will win?" matters whatsoever is ridiculously hysterical yet undeniably plausible. The entire puppet show is a facade.
I think what people miss about the “look” between Kerry and Logan is that they both realized that no matter if you’re for or against him - Mencken generates a *reaction* in people, love or hate, there’s no middle ground. And whether Mencken wins or loses, he will be DYNAMITE for their ratings. Logan truly doesn’t care about how Mencken will impact the country, as long as he gets more viewers tuned into ATN.
Yeah I think they just wanted to fuck
@@SuperiFox I think the whole episode was meant to be gross. We start with Rome suggesting that Logan is fooling around with his assistant, and that puts the bad taste in your mouth. You forget about it, then you have the part where Milton creeped on Connor's girlfriend, and that's like "ugh", and finally, the looks between Logan and Kerry at the end put me into a dry heave. All of this against the backdrop of a republican event for privileged, malignant assholes. The word for this episode is "Nausea".
He needs him to win though
@AL Well, it's a private party for top Republican donors where they decide who to back for the US presidency. You might say it's a "privilege" to be invited to something like that, and probably only people who are very wealthy would even be considered. Not everyone is wealthy, and many who are were lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family, like the Roys. You might even say having a lot of wealth is a "privilege" too. So, that's why I call them privileged.
Also, I never said "privileged white republican". For some reason, you added that in yourself. Maybe you think you're fighting your Fox News Internet Holy War with me, but what I said was: "privileged, malignant assholes." Do you know what a malignant asshole is? It's somebody who pretends to misunderstand things so they can make bad-faith arguments, like you! Somebody who tries to make life worse for others to make themselves feel important.
So, that's my good deed for the day. You can pick and choose individual words to take out of context, exaggerate, and be offended by, but I'm not giving you any more explanations.
And there was Connor still wondering why they won’t choose him.
Conheads did not like this one bit.
Nobody takes his interest in politics, which he had from a young age mind you, seriously
He can walk and chew gum. Vote for Connor
"Looks like your polling was off again, Shiv."
The cherry on top.
Fucking amazing lol
This episode really showed Shiv's massive failings. The fact she thought getting Logan to swing blue was even possible, the fact she keeps using these 'what's better for the country' arguments, the facts she thinks her experience means anything to Logan... Very similar tō Kendal in my view - neither understand, even after so long around Logan, how his mind works. Roman seems to be the only one who gets it. He sees what Logan wants and adjusts his message to suit that.
I hate this guy they've picked and Roman is a terrible person, but their pick is clearly the best from a 'lets make a shit load of money' standpoint and Roman is clearly the most onto it sibling at the moment.
He's dangerous, I agree . Not many could control such guy with unlimited power. Unless they share the same interests. Which Logan does, but his children, not so much . I think it's incredibly irresponsible to make such an alliance with a foot inside a grave
Kendall did pander to his dad until he realized in S1 nothing he will do will ever satisfy him. Hence the take over attempt. Then that failed because of a classic Kendall self destruction. Shiv is just living in lala land and thinks she’s way better than she actually is.
@@chicagoanuntilchicagoends1646 I think Shiv is pretty good, but Logan is just really good. Against his kids, he has all the cards. She is cunning, ruthless and a good strategist, but like all his kids, she is arrogant and entitled. She revealed in season 2 that she has all kinds of tangible ideas and plans to fix Waystar (unlike Roman and Ken, who speak about the future only in colourful jargon), but instead of going in and putting in her time, getting shit done on the ground, she stomped into the C-Suite, put out her hand and said "GIMME!" and nobody liked it. Logan set her up for this. He knew she would embarrass herself reaching for the top spot, and that he would gain one more pawn to protect him from the consequences of this actions. She was used to try to get Pierce, then she was used to ward-off the sexual misconduct allegations, and she's being blocked from advancing within Waystar because the rank-and-file dislike her. He has forced her to whittle-down her credibility in the outside world and made her entirely beholden to him. He's just really good.
@@katana2k Great analysis
Exactly, Logan only cares about Logan. Shiv is too nice and soft to ever be the CEO of a manipulative media mega-corp like Waystar. I mean you don't become a billionaire by being considerate.
1:01 That side-eye is just hilarious
Look how he’s smiling at Kerry. I don’t know whether to be terrified or charmed.
They are really fking with each other
"My opinion counts for more" the ultimate argument 😶
Her opinion does count for more. The fact that she couldn't sell her ideas is more telling
@@kevincarter2020Her opinion would count more if she were in her familiar forte as part of a politician's team.
However in this situation, her opinion at very best only matches to Roman's and realistically that's not the scenario. She is out of her depth in the corporate scene with no authentic experience. She doesn't understand Logan's priority in this scene which is part of why this moment becomes a massive loss for her. She's showing her father that she's indeed not a serious person.
Roman actually being competent and learning from Gerri seems to have been the worst-case scenario, but with any luck, Kendall will find something bad on him and Logan will have to go with Plan B, Connor.
Logan will turn against Roman as well. Like he did with Shiv and Kendall.
@@Dak1624 I feel like Logan can’t stand anyone being better than him even if that includes his own kids.
Roman will self implode. Remember the satellite launch? This deal will be like that. I think every child of Logan's will fail unless they band together to offset each other's weaknesses.
@@Kaigirl27 very narcissistic father of him
Shiv actually standing for something she truly believes in here.
Bit of a late reply but no she isn't.
Selgado, I believe, promised her to put her dad in jail and Shiv in the C-suite. She was arguing for Logan to go blue so that she could become CEO.
There''s the potential argument that in s4 when she was advocating against calling the election for Menken was where beliefs came into play. But I'd argue that even then she was opposing because she knew the CE-bros were going to use the regulatory avenue to stop the deal. So even that was self-preservation.
the strongest opinion in the room at 0:38
holy crap i didn't notice that thanks
I still want to know what’s going on with Logan and her haha
Roman said they were sleeping together.
@@gabrielidusogie9189 oh I know that but is it true. She seems to be voicing her opinion a lot in the last few episodes.
Side bitch / assistant
Shiv suffers from luxury ideological myopia.
1:01 cox is so good
We need to see Mencken and Connor face off in the Republican primaries next season. That would be fucking hilarious
How Rupert Murdock picked trump
Shiv orders Tom its time to go as one would do with their dog.😅
Why are they even talking about Mencken when Connor Roy has been interested in politics from a very young age?
Best comment here 😂
Why is no one talking about Kerry?! 😱 She definitely is doing something on the background. Save my words.
Hand of the King.
everyone's talking Kerry, she's blowing him
@@hothotheat3000 incubator of the king
Jaryd is a good actor, remember him from the series Tyrant, he has a future.
Kind of weird to see people saying that Shiv is intolerable here, when Roman and Logan are agreeing to push a literal fascist to be next president. It's interesting to see how much it scares her, especially the "he's f*cking dangerous" line where her voice is shaking a little bit
It's just one loser lol
@@snitox Not only that comment, I've seen people on Reddit, twitter, etc saying similar things
@@Pablo-di8cf They're all pretty awful, but Shiv the worst? Logan knew the existence of and covered up sexual abuse within his cruise division for years. He covered up a death for Kendall. Logan is genuinely evil. Roman accelerated the production of a satellite launch which blew up and if not for extreme luck, could have killed several people. He's also backing a fascist who has joked semi seriously about creating work camps and echoes talking points of the extreme far right, including being willing to take good pitches from Franco and "H". Roman backs him ,despite this, because it brings money and views to ATN. I find it hard to believe that Shiv is the worst of the Roy's, it's just that she's had the most significant change so far considering that in season 1 she was relatively clear of wrongdoing
She's shaking because the other guy wants to make her CEO
It's not real it's a TV show
Shiv was fired by Gil for perfectly understandable reasons. She tried to spin it by saying she quit but it was implied that everyone knew what really happened. Shiv doesn't know what she's doing. She's too emotional and hot headed to run anything.
I don't know, she seemed to purposefully sabotage it after Logan "offered" her the company.
I think she sees "what she did/said" as her way of quitting. Like she was intentionally burning a bridge.
That's why shiv should have stay in politics, she's so good and passionate then But terrible in business
How shiv bossed Tom at the end!
Dont worry, in the end tom & gregg will get the top position
After the episode after this I think Shiv is headed for a break with Logan a la Kendall. I don't think she "joins" Kendall because, well, join him in what at this point. Not only that, I could see her breaking with Tom and Tom staying with team Logan. At a certain point I don't know why Kendall and Shiv wouldn't simply let themselves be bought out. I'd take the 2 billion and fuck off from all these people.
Yes
Best move for the kids is to leave the game of the Succession, because in order to win you have to lose everything and everyone else (the remains of familial relations). And then just start your own shit, that doesn’t involve manipulating people and supporting hate-selling politicians. 2 billions is more than enough
I hate it when shiv acts all high and mighty as if she’s not rolling in the filth with the rest of them just because she worked in politics
He’s got another side piece
😂😂 I said this earlier. Logan is a beast
She looks like his current and ex wives. He’s got a type.
@@hothotheat3000 not really. Maybe Marcia. Kerry doesnt resemble kendall's mom at all
We decided in man world that you don’t have to worry your little head about it
So how powerful will Kerry become?
enough to give out medals
I was rooting for Connor
Is Logan Roy a smart man like Saul Goodman?
Better
Logan would've seen Saul as a serious person
Who is the woman Logan left with?
Kerry, his assistant.
Shiv is nice
I guess it was the climate that killed him off smh
Shiv was right about Mencken, Roman got played like a fiddle
If this show had worse writers they would have made Connor the VP candidate for Jaryd.
Shiv is right but she’s the Worst™️
Shiv is so annoying
My god how intolerable is shiv
The Skylarification of Shiv
@@bestiebombshell6368 what? Shiv is an awful person, Skylar is just an average person. There’s no reason to hate Skylar for sure, but Shiv is literally abusive to her husband, scared a rape victim out of testifying, and publicly gaslit her brother
@@stupididiot6993 she is intolerable but in this scene she is right
There's plenty of reason to hate Skylar. She smoked while pregnant with Walt Jr, resulting in him being disabled, and her smoking probably caused Walt's lung cancer, then she doesn't learn her lesson and smokes while pregnant with her daughter and while near her cradle.
@@capo328 that’s actually not true. Smoking while pregnant is not a cause for cerebral palsy, the disease Walt Jr. has. She smokes while pregnant with her daughter because she’s stressed out as fuck due to her husband being a drug dealing sociopath. If you think Skylar is a bad person you either have excessively high moral standards or you’re a misogynist
Shiv's whining is so annoying "blah blah he's a fascist!" 😩😴 quiet down woman
My groyper