@@scumknight6074no. Since kiriko isn’t a weak hero. If Kiriko was really terrible in the meta, but still countered ana then it’d be a better comparison
@scathelocke4203 fair enough. I like playing orisa a lot but i don't play her a lot because I don't want to be THAT GUY. Or I'm just learning a different character like sig or ram.
I have to watch these videos of his on 2x, on this one I even clicked custom speed to see if it could go even faster (sadly no). You thought it was fast at default 😅
Who could've seen Orisa coming back after all her microbuffs? Had many people telling me that the changes did nothing and the "massive armor nerf" affected her the most because she had the most armor or whatever. Now we're slowly realizing that Orisa is back in meta.
I know right ? When people say that orisa will not be meta because of armor nerfs I was like Are you people serious? Shes still better then when she was meta 3 seasons ago Every nerf has been reverted or buff better then before
yep. People have goldfish brains and say "what but this micro buff won't change orisa that much!" Forgetting that she's been getting one every single patch since the last time she got nerfed. They nerf her, and then microbuff her every patch, eventually undoing the nerfs and making her even stronger until she becomes meta and gets nerfed again its such a stupid cycle. Someone working on these balance patches has got to be a hardcore orisa main.
@@SecureBirch410 same thing happen to dva she was getting micro buff for the entire time since ow 2 launch I knew it was only matter of time before she gets busted
Doom has been and will continue to be one of the most amazing and often oppressive tanks in the game. The catch is, you have to be legit cracked at Doom. I'm talking the kinda person that literally only plays Doom and has a gazillion hours logged on him. Unfortunately, I get the guy that's trying to learn to play Doom in a RANKED match and completely tosses. Take that shit to quick play my dude.
I don't think you win either way. In quickplay people are less likely to work with you and will being doing their own thing since things are casual. In ranked people are more likely to work with you BUT will get pissed if you're still learning a hero instead of playing what's meta. Like I remember doing terrible with doom in some warmup quickplay matches. Then I went to ranked and had an amazing game on junkertown. It could be luck sure, but my team was actually paying attention to what i was trying to do and followed up better than folks would in quick play. So, it's a pick your poison thing.
@@leatherhead333 Yeah, quick play doesn't punish you enough. It gets your ego high enough to think you're great, when in reality you're picking off supports that are alone with a full kit of offensive doomfist tank abilities and then hopping to another when your cooldown finishes. The only reaason I'd suggest quickplay is for refining your mechanical skills. Otherwise competitive to REALLY get your skills up. In the simplest sense, the only way you'll get better is by competing with better people. Otherwise you'll stay at the same level forever.
i dont think you have to be cracked to do good with doom imo, you just gotta be smart with your cooldown cycles and you’re golden. dont think its fair to say hes a “high skill” tank, just scares anyone who wants to play him, and everyone who plays against him
@@leatherhead333 Quick play is for practicing your mechanics. Anything beyond that is simple game sense. IMO game sense is universal across heros and roles. I mean yeah sure your reactions will be different to different scenarios pending on who and what role you're playing. But overall reading the match, positioning, ult and CD tracking, etc...is Overwatch 101. So why practice in ranked? If you have the mechanics down your game sense should be enough to play ranked. And yes if you have game sense you can play Doom to varying degrees of success. But those that are cracked with him make him so oppressive it's almost impossible to counter. No amount of Sombra, Brig, Hog, Orisa, etc will matter. The hero by and large has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. Only ceilings that high are probably Lucio, Tracer, and Genji.
Im convinced that somewhere at Blizzard, there's an alarm that sounds when the player base is actually enjoying the tank meta. As soon as it goes off they buff Orisa, Mauga, Hog, or all three.
I’ll take orisa being Mets over that DVA era we just had . Absolute insanity that a tank could burst you down in 1 second and fly right out while mitigating damage
I say lifeweavers biggest issue is that you can do so much with his abilities but because of the mildly long cds you cant do it all. You can pedal the ulting orisa but then you cant pedal the next thing. It extends to grip and tree. Like the strongest thing about his kit is you can break los with tree. On a side note. If they did a QoL change where it shows how much time pedal can be used for allies it would be helpful. They can do like a ring around the icon and it can extend to teleporter as well
You can’t do a lot actually. He’s pretty niche, he’s forced to healbot and doesn’t offer much utility that most of the cast can’t do besides life grip which isn’t even the best ability to save ppl just the easiest
Lifeweaver's biggest issue is that his kit doesn’t work with Overwatch, or at least not Overwatch 2. I love Weaver and I really don't mind his healbot playstyle, but he doesn’t have enough offensive utility or genuinely good defensive utility to make up for it. Grip is not a good ability. Petal is fine, but its utility is limited for his teammates. LW needs a rework. They don’t have to rework him into an offensive / high-damage support like every other supp these days (in fact, I really hope they DONT DO THAT), but if they want to make him defensive they need to figure out a way for him to enable his team much better than he does.
You know, if you look at this tier list and if it is actually accurate... It would indicate that MOST of the characters are in a healthy spot. B-A is what I'd consider healthy. Not OP but decent or good at the moment. Tracer is kind of an outlier as I honestly believe she's always healthy but always S tier for those who can play her very well. But yeah overall, other than Orisa being the best tank, this list makes the game look like it's in a good state.
Agree with the tracer, the floor to ceiling gap is incredibly large which is her design, good if you're good with her, bad if ur not, others there is less so of a gap which is why them being S tier is such a problem (others that would be a healthy s imo are genji, JQ, Doom, Echo, Ball, and support id say Lucio maybe)
@@sz1aen351heavily disagree with ball and doom due to the cc and heavy displacement that comes with their kit, yes they’re skilled but the effect a skilled doom or ball or any cc based character has on a field is terrible imo
@@wabblewabblegugacjibblebut9375 want to elaborate on that? Compared to OW1 she has a longer recall CD and had her larger pulse bomb reverted to its original size. What are you even referring to?
@@jubjubssy 5v5 itself made characters like Tracer stronger. Characters who are not reliant on their team and have degrees of independence like Sombra, Tracer or Widow don’t feel the loss of their tank, but they sure as shit feel the loss of a Hog playing whack-a-mole in the enemy team’s backline. A 1 second longer cooldown means nothing. Then the S9 changes really broke her. For the first patch of S9, Tracer had the highest winrate on console for every single rank and the majority of ranks on PC.
Fuck it, hot take, Sombra's Hack SHOULD NOT change Wrecking Ball back to crab form. She makes him instantly take double damage from everyone, his head is GIAGANTIC and as soon as he is hack his head is out and there is nothing he can do
I mean, that does make sense, if Wrecking Ball gets hacked while in ball form he should just be stuck in ball form with no way to do anything but roll around. I mean it would shut him down more than Sombra already does but it does make sense
Im not sure if it's just me but I do really well on lifeweaver, you just play him purely as the guy the keeps everyone alive. It only works if your dps are good however, in which case you just insta swap
Brig might get one but I'd assume it would be after Juno gets nerfed. Juno is so OP it's not even funny. Played her for a few hours and got bored very soon but I also racked up a ton of healing and kills while not even dying most of the time.
@@tomn.9987 they probably will just nerf Juno cuz brig is strong but I don’t think brig is like brainlessly op rn she’s just good cuz she doesn’t need another support holding her hand
Lifeweaver has been low-key goated in my diamond lobbies. His updated platform gets roughly 3-5x the value than before. Low ranks struggle with comms and most of his platforms would be accidentally stepped on by a teammate and wasted. The petal coming back down gives slower players enough time to notice it and think of a way to use it. When I play in master lobbies or pugs with more communication this issue seemingly goes away. Therefore, Flats is likely unaware of how much impact this has for most of the player base considering that the issue wont come up in his lobbies. Also I’m salty that my boy is the only one in D tier and he gave no explanation for it.
I’d say Doom is still really good, because I’d be Doom into Orisa and I’d still be able to deal with her. Maybe they were bad tank players or my Doom is just really good. I’m also a Diamond peak player (currently Plat 1, been struggling to get there; constantly one game away then suddenly lose one or two, it’s rough)
I find it funny at how Hanzo got his health nerfed so that he could one-shot the mirror, but now his arrows deal enough to one-shot 250HP. I wonder if he'll get his health reverted to 250 or if he'll just have the reason for the change get forgotten about
Just cause someone is at the bottom doesn't mean they are weak. Someone's always gonna have to be at the bottom. But buff Weaver. He still is kinda ehhhh
@necrosis6037 not true at all. It's very hard to rank up while hoping your teammates carry you. That's why mercy has never been recommended for players looking to rank up quick.
I have a hot take. Orisa is ..."meta", because the roster including tanks is actually reasonably balanced, well atleast the best its been. There is no one stand out overpowered tank atm, therefore the default becomes Orisa. Orisa may need a very slight nerf, but is orisas rise because orisa is strong or is it because no other tanks are broken?
I always thought that was Ram. Pro play shows Ram as a staple in brawl comps and nano annihilation is extremely strong. I’d say Orisa’s effectiveness is dependent on what healers are strong since orisa thrives depending on how many recourses she gains from supports. Sorry for the erm akshally comment💀🙏
Didn't the devs hint at a Mauga rework? I thought I heard that they were looking to have it where shooting squishy enemies give him more self-healing than tanks. I don't know about that, but I would honestly be down to see one, if not all, of the changes I've been thinking about: -Chainguns: Lose critical for more fire damage for Gunny. Increase critical by x0.5 for Cha-Cha. Reduced spread when shooting both. -Charge: Allow successful stomp to gain overhealth. -Berserker Passive: Every eliminate gains overhealth, not on damage. Shout is its own can of worms as it is the ability that defines the character to most people (that shout is kinda iconic). It is also an ability that can easily make/break the character. The issue is that it acts more like a "oh shit" ability like Fortify/Breather, giving him crazy value at little cost. As such, perhaps keep as is, but with lower % values (and never give it speed boost)
I dont think weaver is absolutely dog crap, he outputs so much healing and with the passive buildup it allows for him to pull out the thorns for a little bit, which deal enough damage to pressure any hero, still super niche.
I vouch for Lifeweaver I really enjoy having him on my team as a tank he's saved my life on multiple occasions when I slipped up Lifeweaver will always be my goat
They don't know how Juno and brig complement each other.... If the dps play around them, you will not lose... Brig potential to save people being picked is enormous, paring with Juno helping the disengage.... Played a game where I was a brig, my kills were the highest because I was the one finishing dive back liners trying to get my bastion and my Juno
Out of the 3 worst tanks, I actually enjoy Mauga the most, both playing as/against. Crazy? As a tank main, yes. But to me, he is just a better character out of the 3, though he does need a rework as to lower the tank buster value. I just hope the devs can focus their efforts on making Mauga more like a JQ and Doom (risky aggressive playmakers) versus Orisa and Roadhog (value from existing). If nothing else, he should serve as a bouncer against the hated tanks, including Orisa, Roadhog, and even Dva at the moment (maybe Ball, but he can easily be counter by anyone else tbh)
The OWCS meta revolves completely around Juno and Orisa. Basically Juno is just a crutch pick right now and because she plays best in Brawl and Orisa is the best brawl tank they are being played nonstop. Brig works best as the flex support in a brawl juno comp so she is being played almost nonstop too. DPS is primarily Cass (because very reliable in brawl & works really well with Orisa too) and then genji, tracer, pharah, widow as the flex because theyre all strong in brawl. Nerf Juno and Orisa and the meta will completely shift, dva will probably be dominant then so she needs a nerf too.
flats hearing that you even considered putting soldier in a tier genuinely lightened my soul, i love this character sm i love soldier sm I'm so happy that he's not weak right now. but also this is an end of season tierlist, no way is this mid season XD
I feel like people overrate cass because of his popularity and that he’s fun to play. You have to be on point basically all the time and he has no real escape and gets dived easy. If you lose to cass they 100% deserved that win
Cass’s extra health is huge especially mixed with roll. He can effectively survive so much, while having the ability to instantly kill any squishy who dares get close. The biggest reason Cass is so good is he makes almost as much space as a tank just by existing. (For reference, a PROJECTILE hero, hanzo, has to charge his shot for an extra .2 seconds longer than Cass, deals less damage, and moves slower. Cass can kill a squishy before hanzo can pull back his damn arrow lol
Love playing brig lately I tend to save my alt for when my tank dies and there tank is alive and brig is a really good counter for rein when alt active cause if u brawling him you can dash into him stunning him and then whip him to push him back and then when outta alt you can dash into him when he charges at your team to knock you and him onto the ground
I’m gonna say in low tier (silver/gold) life weaver is actually useful just for the grip alone. If you can keep your tank up you can win a lot of fights you wouldn’t otherwise. Also not on comms you can bring wandering team mates back into better positions (reaching doom or Winston) . On console cause his heal is a homing heal it’s also a little easier. I’m sure Ana is better but you have to land shots that on console is not that easy (or maybe I’m just low tier bad so there’s that). Same reason Moira is good you don’t have the aiming issue plus Moira ruins a lot of dps on the 1vs1 and she has superb sustain that prevents backline. Again I totally concede I’m only talking about experience in low ranks and on console. I’m sure on high ranks it’s a completely different game but gotta remember only 10% of players go beyond platinum so tier lists for platinum and lower actually make up 90% of the player base.
Only thing op about juno is her ultimate and how fast she charges it. The main problem is her healing output but thats also to blame it being a orisa ram dva meta. Tanks that just soak up dmg and dont die obviously gives support hella ult charge. Currently I am a top 100 support player and at the highest level in ranked juno is one of the easiest people to kill because she lacks anything to actually heal herself but her ult. Which is why brig is good with her. She feels like a harder version of kiri where you just farm your ult and live, but she doesn't have a suzu or a tp through walls. Thats also why they think they have her micro missiles dmg high because she has no self sustain and cant headshot. But dmg also gives her hella ult charge. A good sombra dva tracer kills juno almost instantly, not to mention hitscans like widow cree ashe. You need brig to babysit you most of the time. I say just lower her numbers on everything. Dmg healing output, so that she cant just use her instant win ult button. Much like how kiri was in the kiri lucio queen meta. It was like whoever uses kiri ult and farms it first just wins the fight. Also another quick thought. I wouldn't be upset if they just delete that deku tracer skin and give it to venture. Deku whol thing is being a little overthinking geek and venture geeks out about almost everything. Plus she has no skins lol. Uraraka juno is perfect though theres no other character you could really give that to. Not gonna mention all might as rein and not ramattra but sure. Maybe just add me to the dev team.
Bastion ult rework idea Overclock(turret form)/destroyer of worlds 1.5x firerate 2x speed Gain 50 armour For 6sec I just don’t like current ult because I want bastion to be op
Being new to overwatch, Mauga right now feels one of the absolute best tanks in low ranks. Maybe it's only cause i find it easy to use, or maybe cause of the way low bronze to gold lobbies are played...i love it tho HAHA
I think the only way lifeweaver can ever be viable without being broken or a healbot is to let him shoot is thorn volley out of both of his hands so he has more dps without just bugging his numbers because that’s clearly not working
Tbh at least for now the tierlist is actually pretty good compared to other times in overwatches life like most of the cast is in A or B that means that the balance team is doing something right to have most of the cast very close
I'm suprised the devs didn't know the difference in 10% movement speed, Rein is slowed by 30% while using his barrier and somehow Orisa being at -20% while being able to use her buttons without losing the defense was too much of a penalty
I hope zen/brig becomes the combo overtime against Orisa, speedy af high damage comp! Itd be a fun week before 6v6 since we wanna waste time not doing that now
Dva is more op than people are saying. It’s just the people who couldn’t play her before can’t play her now. Where as before if u had thumbs you got value on dva
Looking back at it. venture got nerfed in almost every patch not, and the only buff they got is a QOL lol. Might be the new Nerf genji meme. A noob stomper hero that never get buffed because they gonna dog walk low ranks but can also work in some niche professional comp
Idc what you say, Sombra’s potential for game breaking still feels kinda ridiculous. I have seen way too many games where a sombra absolutely brutalizes a whole enemy team and is only beaten by someone better counter-picking sombra. It’s just not even fun joining a match and getting insta-killed by someone who is invisible, turns off your abilities and ult, and can run away after hitting you with DoT ensuring you still die anyways. I understand they’re making changes to make Sombra a viable and fun character to play, but I see a sombra in LITERALLY EVERY MATCH now and it’s just so annoying when a sombra decides to target you specifically and you basically have no chance.
Be good at predicting when they're coming. Either learn to play further back, or pick up Brig. Play around natural cover so that when they target you, there's a chance to get to cover and start the fight off.
I love that HAHA has become the universal language for Mauga
HAHAAAAA
Bigger is better
@@xman9354🧐
It's never boring around him.
I even read it in his voice
I miss when Mauga was hot ass but still hard countered Orisa because she still got Crit in fortify
Well see that was a good balance decision/interaction, overwatch isn't allowed to have those.
Back then people were also still ignorant to that matchup so if u started on mauga dumb tanks would swap orisa thinking it'll work out
I like how Mauga purpose rn is to just kill Roadhog and thats about it
This is equivalent to saying “Ana is dominant, but I’m glad Kiriko exists to counter her.”
@@scumknight6074no. Since kiriko isn’t a weak hero. If Kiriko was really terrible in the meta, but still countered ana then it’d be a better comparison
I feel like you practice your “HA HAA’S!” in the mirror for whenever you talk about mauga😭
He does. I see all
If you go orisa out the gate, there will be no mercy to be found
Sad thing is that playing most of the tanks is frowned upon... Tank players can't win.
I'd say going orisa out of the gate is better than swapping to orisa mid match imo
Starting off on Orisa is fine, you probably just want to play as them. Now swapping to Orisa as soon as you see an enemy is another story
@@JunkPrat1113 fair enough, I just hate mauga and orisa
@scathelocke4203 fair enough. I like playing orisa a lot but i don't play her a lot because I don't want to be THAT GUY. Or I'm just learning a different character like sig or ram.
Timestamps:
TANKS:
Doom: 0:57
DVA: 1:24
Junker Queen: 2:01
Mauga: 2:16
Orisa: 3:04
Ram: 3:11
Rein: 4:03
Hog: 4:35
Sigma: 5:15
Winton: 5:41
Ball: 6:26
Zarya: 6:59
DPS:
Ashe: 7:07
Bastion: 7:16
Cassidy: 7:42
Echo: 8:08
Genji: 8:17
Hanzo: 8:36
Junkrat: 9:00
Mei: 9:17
Pharah: 9:36
Reaper: 9:46
Sojourne: 10:02
Soldier: 10:11
Sombra: 10:55
Sym: 11:09
Torb: 11:22
Tracer: 11:41
Venture: 11:46
Widow: 12:04
SUPPORT:
Ana: 12:21
Bap: 12:30
Brig: 12:35
Juno: 12:35
Illari: 13:13
Kiri: 13:19
Weaver: 13:40
Lucio: 13:46
Mercy: 14:08
Moira: 14:36
Zen: 14:42
tysm
I don't think ive ever heard him speak this fast before, i legitimately had to check the speed of the video to make sure i wasn't on 2x 😅
I thought I was going crazy
I have to watch these videos of his on 2x, on this one I even clicked custom speed to see if it could go even faster (sadly no). You thought it was fast at default 😅
You have to play the video on 0.5x to really listen
I think he’s finally doing addy
Lmao you guys never heard someone speak fast before?
I’ve been fearing this tierlist and the moment I saw the patch notes I knew her uprising is inevitable
Who could've seen Orisa coming back after all her microbuffs? Had many people telling me that the changes did nothing and the "massive armor nerf" affected her the most because she had the most armor or whatever. Now we're slowly realizing that Orisa is back in meta.
And the cycle repeats, as usual.
I know right ?
When people say that orisa will not be meta because of armor nerfs
I was like
Are you people serious?
Shes still better then when she was meta 3 seasons ago
Every nerf has been reverted or buff better then before
Mind virus
yep. People have goldfish brains and say "what but this micro buff won't change orisa that much!" Forgetting that she's been getting one every single patch since the last time she got nerfed. They nerf her, and then microbuff her every patch, eventually undoing the nerfs and making her even stronger until she becomes meta and gets nerfed again its such a stupid cycle. Someone working on these balance patches has got to be a hardcore orisa main.
@@SecureBirch410 same thing happen to dva she was getting micro buff for the entire time since ow 2 launch
I knew it was only matter of time before she gets busted
0.75x speed is like watching a normal Flats tier video lol
Doom has been and will continue to be one of the most amazing and often oppressive tanks in the game. The catch is, you have to be legit cracked at Doom. I'm talking the kinda person that literally only plays Doom and has a gazillion hours logged on him. Unfortunately, I get the guy that's trying to learn to play Doom in a RANKED match and completely tosses. Take that shit to quick play my dude.
I don't think you win either way. In quickplay people are less likely to work with you and will being doing their own thing since things are casual. In ranked people are more likely to work with you BUT will get pissed if you're still learning a hero instead of playing what's meta.
Like I remember doing terrible with doom in some warmup quickplay matches. Then I went to ranked and had an amazing game on junkertown. It could be luck sure, but my team was actually paying attention to what i was trying to do and followed up better than folks would in quick play.
So, it's a pick your poison thing.
@@leatherhead333 Yeah, quick play doesn't punish you enough. It gets your ego high enough to think you're great, when in reality you're picking off supports that are alone with a full kit of offensive doomfist tank abilities and then hopping to another when your cooldown finishes.
The only reaason I'd suggest quickplay is for refining your mechanical skills. Otherwise competitive to REALLY get your skills up.
In the simplest sense, the only way you'll get better is by competing with better people. Otherwise you'll stay at the same level forever.
i dont think you have to be cracked to do good with doom imo, you just gotta be smart with your cooldown cycles and you’re golden. dont think its fair to say hes a “high skill” tank, just scares anyone who wants to play him, and everyone who plays against him
Practicing in ranked is best because youre going against people in your skill set that are trying
Vs the dice roll that is QP
@@leatherhead333 Quick play is for practicing your mechanics. Anything beyond that is simple game sense. IMO game sense is universal across heros and roles. I mean yeah sure your reactions will be different to different scenarios pending on who and what role you're playing. But overall reading the match, positioning, ult and CD tracking, etc...is Overwatch 101. So why practice in ranked? If you have the mechanics down your game sense should be enough to play ranked. And yes if you have game sense you can play Doom to varying degrees of success. But those that are cracked with him make him so oppressive it's almost impossible to counter. No amount of Sombra, Brig, Hog, Orisa, etc will matter. The hero by and large has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. Only ceilings that high are probably Lucio, Tracer, and Genji.
The Bastion spread buff was genuinely effective at helping him at mid-range play
16 minute tier list? This gonna be a goodie
Jesus christ BREATHE FLATS BREATHE
Im convinced that somewhere at Blizzard, there's an alarm that sounds when the player base is actually enjoying the tank meta. As soon as it goes off they buff Orisa, Mauga, Hog, or all three.
Dude… nobody enjoyed dva meta what the fuck are u trying to say
HUGE gameplay feature you missed that makes Winston S-tier: he's a funny monkey guy with glasses
2:35 Cracked me up. I can't🤣
I’ll take orisa being Mets over that DVA era we just had . Absolute insanity that a tank could burst you down in 1 second and fly right out while mitigating damage
dva is still meta
Ok before i even start the video: Mauga. Orisa or Hog. Which one's meta?
Orisa
@@SonShellZ Welp... time to stay away for another season ;-;
@@footur3179real
insane that you people think this way instead of just picking the character yourself like are you 10
@@nahdontevenstartfr
I say lifeweavers biggest issue is that you can do so much with his abilities but because of the mildly long cds you cant do it all. You can pedal the ulting orisa but then you cant pedal the next thing. It extends to grip and tree. Like the strongest thing about his kit is you can break los with tree.
On a side note. If they did a QoL change where it shows how much time pedal can be used for allies it would be helpful. They can do like a ring around the icon and it can extend to teleporter as well
You can’t do a lot actually. He’s pretty niche, he’s forced to healbot and doesn’t offer much utility that most of the cast can’t do besides life grip which isn’t even the best ability to save ppl just the easiest
Lifeweaver's biggest issue is that his kit doesn’t work with Overwatch, or at least not Overwatch 2.
I love Weaver and I really don't mind his healbot playstyle, but he doesn’t have enough offensive utility or genuinely good defensive utility to make up for it. Grip is not a good ability. Petal is fine, but its utility is limited for his teammates.
LW needs a rework. They don’t have to rework him into an offensive / high-damage support like every other supp these days (in fact, I really hope they DONT DO THAT), but if they want to make him defensive they need to figure out a way for him to enable his team much better than he does.
Real his cds are painfully long
@@blissthelioness1180 at this point if a support isn't just a dps with healing, they're not ever going to be good.
@@razrv3lcit isn't even like his dps is bad either he is just not going to 1v3 a tank and two dps like some characters can
You know, if you look at this tier list and if it is actually accurate... It would indicate that MOST of the characters are in a healthy spot. B-A is what I'd consider healthy. Not OP but decent or good at the moment. Tracer is kind of an outlier as I honestly believe she's always healthy but always S tier for those who can play her very well. But yeah overall, other than Orisa being the best tank, this list makes the game look like it's in a good state.
Agree with the tracer, the floor to ceiling gap is incredibly large which is her design, good if you're good with her, bad if ur not, others there is less so of a gap which is why them being S tier is such a problem (others that would be a healthy s imo are genji, JQ, Doom, Echo, Ball, and support id say Lucio maybe)
Tracer has had her skill requirements lowered multiple times with 5v5.
She is the new Sojourn.
@@sz1aen351heavily disagree with ball and doom due to the cc and heavy displacement that comes with their kit, yes they’re skilled but the effect a skilled doom or ball or any cc based character has on a field is terrible imo
@@wabblewabblegugacjibblebut9375 want to elaborate on that? Compared to OW1 she has a longer recall CD and had her larger pulse bomb reverted to its original size. What are you even referring to?
@@jubjubssy 5v5 itself made characters like Tracer stronger. Characters who are not reliant on their team and have degrees of independence like Sombra, Tracer or Widow don’t feel the loss of their tank, but they sure as shit feel the loss of a Hog playing whack-a-mole in the enemy team’s backline. A 1 second longer cooldown means nothing.
Then the S9 changes really broke her. For the first patch of S9, Tracer had the highest winrate on console for every single rank and the majority of ranks on PC.
Fuck it, hot take, Sombra's Hack SHOULD NOT change Wrecking Ball back to crab form.
She makes him instantly take double damage from everyone, his head is GIAGANTIC and as soon as he is hack his head is out and there is nothing he can do
Ball players deserve everything that komes their way
Not a bad take.
Ball is equally as annoying as sombra to deal with so hell no
I mean, that does make sense, if Wrecking Ball gets hacked while in ball form he should just be stuck in ball form with no way to do anything but roll around. I mean it would shut him down more than Sombra already does but it does make sense
@@BendyDH hed at least kinda sorta be able to run around tho, he wouldn’t just die in the backline
Flats: I wasnt going to do a tier list.
Also Flats: But like last time i wasnt going to do a tier list, im going to do a tier list.
Im not sure if it's just me but I do really well on lifeweaver, you just play him purely as the guy the keeps everyone alive. It only works if your dps are good however, in which case you just insta swap
Exactly. That’s all he can do
Flats micro buff sense going off and sending him into a deep paranoid state
As a brig main I’m now terrified they’ll nerf my character to the ground
Brig might get one but I'd assume it would be after Juno gets nerfed. Juno is so OP it's not even funny. Played her for a few hours and got bored very soon but I also racked up a ton of healing and kills while not even dying most of the time.
Personally I think Juno should be the one to get nerfed but hey.
@@tomn.9987 they probably will just nerf Juno cuz brig is strong but I don’t think brig is like brainlessly op rn she’s just good cuz she doesn’t need another support holding her hand
@@E-boat I agree, Brig is very strong but I don't feel like she is OP. I mostly play Kiri so she isn't even annoying to me.
I wonder how they would nerf her if they decided to
no one:
flats at the start of every tier list video:
"i wasnt gonna do a tier list, but-"
Had to check what speed my YT player was set to as Flats was talking so fking quick
15:35 ok dad 😂
Lifeweaver has been low-key goated in my diamond lobbies.
His updated platform gets roughly 3-5x the value than before. Low ranks struggle with comms and most of his platforms would be accidentally stepped on by a teammate and wasted. The petal coming back down gives slower players enough time to notice it and think of a way to use it.
When I play in master lobbies or pugs with more communication this issue seemingly goes away. Therefore, Flats is likely unaware of how much impact this has for most of the player base considering that the issue wont come up in his lobbies. Also I’m salty that my boy is the only one in D tier and he gave no explanation for it.
I’d say Doom is still really good, because I’d be Doom into Orisa and I’d still be able to deal with her. Maybe they were bad tank players or my Doom is just really good.
I’m also a Diamond peak player (currently Plat 1, been struggling to get there; constantly one game away then suddenly lose one or two, it’s rough)
Orisa being back genuinely stresses flats out so much that he's speaking faster
I haven’t played the game since season 10 but I still show up for every tier list
I find it funny at how Hanzo got his health nerfed so that he could one-shot the mirror, but now his arrows deal enough to one-shot 250HP. I wonder if he'll get his health reverted to 250 or if he'll just have the reason for the change get forgotten about
In my experience, lifeweaver is both good and fun to play
it felt odd seeing lifeweaver at the bottom of this tierlist, i played him a LOT this season and got from gold to diamond with a pretty high winrate
u prob switched
Just cause someone is at the bottom doesn't mean they are weak. Someone's always gonna have to be at the bottom.
But buff Weaver. He still is kinda ehhhh
Because Lw doesn’t do anything, his teammates do it for him and he just sits back like mercy. Pretty easy to rank up when you do that
@necrosis6037 not true at all. It's very hard to rank up while hoping your teammates carry you. That's why mercy has never been recommended for players looking to rank up quick.
@@lucaswilliams7280 I said easy to rank up as in you DONT have to put much effort using a character that relies on their teammates.
i respect you gatekeeping the Orisa knowledge lmao
OMG IM BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS FOREVER THANK YOH FLATS THANK YOU
As an Orisa main, I’m over the moon. I’m practicing Rein rn too cuz the only reliable counter is Zarya. Once I’m good with Rein, it’s over
I love the faster paced tierlist!! Usually i want to watch these but theyre too long
Pls do more like this!
mauga impression was so fucking great lmfao
Love the background music
I have a hot take. Orisa is ..."meta", because the roster including tanks is actually reasonably balanced, well atleast the best its been. There is no one stand out overpowered tank atm, therefore the default becomes Orisa. Orisa may need a very slight nerf, but is orisas rise because orisa is strong or is it because no other tanks are broken?
I always thought that was Ram. Pro play shows Ram as a staple in brawl comps and nano annihilation is extremely strong. I’d say Orisa’s effectiveness is dependent on what healers are strong since orisa thrives depending on how many recourses she gains from supports. Sorry for the erm akshally comment💀🙏
Didn't the devs hint at a Mauga rework? I thought I heard that they were looking to have it where shooting squishy enemies give him more self-healing than tanks. I don't know about that, but I would honestly be down to see one, if not all, of the changes I've been thinking about:
-Chainguns: Lose critical for more fire damage for Gunny. Increase critical by x0.5 for Cha-Cha. Reduced spread when shooting both.
-Charge: Allow successful stomp to gain overhealth.
-Berserker Passive: Every eliminate gains overhealth, not on damage.
Shout is its own can of worms as it is the ability that defines the character to most people (that shout is kinda iconic). It is also an ability that can easily make/break the character. The issue is that it acts more like a "oh shit" ability like Fortify/Breather, giving him crazy value at little cost. As such, perhaps keep as is, but with lower % values (and never give it speed boost)
I dont think weaver is absolutely dog crap, he outputs so much healing and with the passive buildup it allows for him to pull out the thorns for a little bit, which deal enough damage to pressure any hero, still super niche.
Which most other supports can do, and more. And better
torb’s molten core with mauga’s cage combo is still one of the best
The lifeweaver disrespect is crazy
fr, i get where hes coming from but his self sustain+mobility is second only to moira, love weaver this season
Lw is mid
@@necrosis6037that would mean he's like low b tier you know that?
@@klausvnt7380 oh right. He’s dog
I vouch for Lifeweaver I really enjoy having him on my team as a tank he's saved my life on multiple occasions when I slipped up Lifeweaver will always be my goat
They don't know how Juno and brig complement each other.... If the dps play around them, you will not lose... Brig potential to save people being picked is enormous, paring with Juno helping the disengage.... Played a game where I was a brig, my kills were the highest because I was the one finishing dive back liners trying to get my bastion and my Juno
Out of the 3 worst tanks, I actually enjoy Mauga the most, both playing as/against.
Crazy? As a tank main, yes. But to me, he is just a better character out of the 3, though he does need a rework as to lower the tank buster value.
I just hope the devs can focus their efforts on making Mauga more like a JQ and Doom (risky aggressive playmakers) versus Orisa and Roadhog (value from existing). If nothing else, he should serve as a bouncer against the hated tanks, including Orisa, Roadhog, and even Dva at the moment (maybe Ball, but he can easily be counter by anyone else tbh)
The OWCS meta revolves completely around Juno and Orisa.
Basically Juno is just a crutch pick right now and because she plays best in Brawl and Orisa is the best brawl tank they are being played nonstop.
Brig works best as the flex support in a brawl juno comp so she is being played almost nonstop too.
DPS is primarily Cass (because very reliable in brawl & works really well with Orisa too) and then genji, tracer, pharah, widow as the flex because theyre all strong in brawl.
Nerf Juno and Orisa and the meta will completely shift, dva will probably be dominant then so she needs a nerf too.
Juno is cheeks, most useless character besides sombra.
@@drunkhusband6257 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don’t forget: Genji so bad Necros tried to one trick reaper then completely quit Overwatch.
Last time I checked. Zarya Bubbles and Nano blade is still a broken combo.
necros is a crybaby, genji is still oppressive as shit
flats hearing that you even considered putting soldier in a tier genuinely lightened my soul, i love this character sm i love soldier sm I'm so happy that he's not weak right now. but also this is an end of season tierlist, no way is this mid season XD
COD character.
Putting ashe in B and cree on A is delusional
Really shows how bro has fallen off in rank
It truly is.
literally and soldier and hanzo in b is also crazy. they are both def c just heavy map and comp dependent
I feel like people overrate cass because of his popularity and that he’s fun to play. You have to be on point basically all the time and he has no real escape and gets dived easy.
If you lose to cass they 100% deserved that win
Cass’s extra health is huge especially mixed with roll. He can effectively survive so much, while having the ability to instantly kill any squishy who dares get close.
The biggest reason Cass is so good is he makes almost as much space as a tank just by existing.
(For reference, a PROJECTILE hero, hanzo, has to charge his shot for an extra .2 seconds longer than Cass, deals less damage, and moves slower.
Cass can kill a squishy before hanzo can pull back his damn arrow lol
I absolutely love zenyatta as a new player , I just unlocked competitive had like 9 k damage over 6 k healing and a easy win
Freakin Kaedi with the stealth pun
They should go the full Mercy route with Weaver and give his petals small Damage Boosting for Sniper Heroes to utilise
I like this mid season patch where the tanks aren’t either completely dominating or are useless.
13:52
Boob changes for Lucio made all the difference, I agree.
Love playing brig lately I tend to save my alt for when my tank dies and there tank is alive and brig is a really good counter for rein when alt active cause if u brawling him you can dash into him stunning him and then whip him to push him back and then when outta alt you can dash into him when he charges at your team to knock you and him onto the ground
I’m gonna say in low tier (silver/gold) life weaver is actually useful just for the grip alone. If you can keep your tank up you can win a lot of fights you wouldn’t otherwise. Also not on comms you can bring wandering team mates back into better positions (reaching doom or Winston) . On console cause his heal is a homing heal it’s also a little easier. I’m sure Ana is better but you have to land shots that on console is not that easy (or maybe I’m just low tier bad so there’s that). Same reason Moira is good you don’t have the aiming issue plus Moira ruins a lot of dps on the 1vs1 and she has superb sustain that prevents backline. Again I totally concede I’m only talking about experience in low ranks and on console. I’m sure on high ranks it’s a completely different game but gotta remember only 10% of players go beyond platinum so tier lists for platinum and lower actually make up 90% of the player base.
They are playing a lot of Genji and Brig with the Orisa in OWCS Asia right now.
Junkrat deserves to be in tier A. His trap utility can be really useful
Zen “dropping up” in this one
Only thing op about juno is her ultimate and how fast she charges it. The main problem is her healing output but thats also to blame it being a orisa ram dva meta. Tanks that just soak up dmg and dont die obviously gives support hella ult charge. Currently I am a top 100 support player and at the highest level in ranked juno is one of the easiest people to kill because she lacks anything to actually heal herself but her ult. Which is why brig is good with her. She feels like a harder version of kiri where you just farm your ult and live, but she doesn't have a suzu or a tp through walls. Thats also why they think they have her micro missiles dmg high because she has no self sustain and cant headshot. But dmg also gives her hella ult charge. A good sombra dva tracer kills juno almost instantly, not to mention hitscans like widow cree ashe. You need brig to babysit you most of the time. I say just lower her numbers on everything. Dmg healing output, so that she cant just use her instant win ult button. Much like how kiri was in the kiri lucio queen meta. It was like whoever uses kiri ult and farms it first just wins the fight. Also another quick thought. I wouldn't be upset if they just delete that deku tracer skin and give it to venture. Deku whol thing is being a little overthinking geek and venture geeks out about almost everything. Plus she has no skins lol. Uraraka juno is perfect though theres no other character you could really give that to. Not gonna mention all might as rein and not ramattra but sure. Maybe just add me to the dev team.
I think team 4 needs to understand that there are heroes that fit better in Concord.
I’ve been a Junkrat Main throughout my goddamn life, and I am proud to be a Junkrat main
Had my first relatively good doom game. If i can make it work its gotta be op for regular players
Being a brig player Juno addition means i have fun now
Orisa is fun yall! Dont you know making the other tank hate their life is the only role specific feature for tank nowadays?
Bastion ult rework idea
Overclock(turret form)/destroyer of worlds
1.5x firerate
2x speed
Gain 50 armour
For 6sec
I just don’t like current ult because I want bastion to be op
WERE SO BACK (pls put me out of my misery)
Just let Mauga crit fortified Orisa and he'll shoot up like he need sto.
Hey no smart ideas here,this is overwatch
Does anyone else watch these tier list videos just because you love Flats ramble about the game and don't actually care about the meta😂
Being new to overwatch, Mauga right now feels one of the absolute best tanks in low ranks. Maybe it's only cause i find it easy to use, or maybe cause of the way low bronze to gold lobbies are played...i love it tho HAHA
No one else does.
Kiriko is just A, I never thought i would see the day she would finally fall out of S tier for once.
2:45 i can just sense flats losing his mind over the orisa mauga hog meta rotation happining again
I think the only way lifeweaver can ever be viable without being broken or a healbot is to let him shoot is thorn volley out of both of his hands so he has more dps without just bugging his numbers because that’s clearly not working
I pinned a 60 hp ram against a wall with whole hog, no heals he survived a solid 3 1/2 seconds. Like dog that’s the whole ult 😭
Tbh at least for now the tierlist is actually pretty good compared to other times in overwatches life like most of the cast is in A or B that means that the balance team is doing something right to have most of the cast very close
Sad days, this is the first tier list video I couldn't finish... I truly am over this game.
Nah for real
see you next season
@@weirdeurasianboy8091 nah. I’ll be back for the new hero. I’m continuing my break
Orissa has always been good, pretty much the ultimate tank character. Only thing close is Ramattra
I'm suprised the devs didn't know the difference in 10% movement speed, Rein is slowed by 30% while using his barrier and somehow Orisa being at -20% while being able to use her buttons without losing the defense was too much of a penalty
Flats trying his hardest to make sure nobody uses horse
I love that Hanzo got his 1-shot back however my God my muscle memory makes it so I can't even 1 tap 225 heroes
bro was in such a hurry to get this video over with hes talking at 3x speed so he can go play a game he actually enjoys
Here’s me, a Queen main, hoping she makes it into A tier one day 😭😭 Sadge
Wasn't she really strong recently
A queen main as well one day fam one day
@@techno2949 She's good into plenty of other thanks, just not Orisa, because she gets outranged, and can't do crits when the horse turns gold.
Bruh tracer is still s tier after like 10 seasons in a row
How to blizzard
1.micro buff orisa over a few patchs
2.she comes back into the meta
3. Nerf her
4.give kiriko a new skin
10:22 "Soldiers never that good" yall forget Season 6 Soldier?
I hope zen/brig becomes the combo overtime against Orisa, speedy af high damage comp! Itd be a fun week before 6v6 since we wanna waste time not doing that now
Dva is more op than people are saying. It’s just the people who couldn’t play her before can’t play her now. Where as before if u had thumbs you got value on dva
can you move your OBS browser a bit to the left so that chat doesn't cover some heroes?
Looking back at it. venture got nerfed in almost every patch not, and the only buff they got is a QOL lol. Might be the new Nerf genji meme. A noob stomper hero that never get buffed because they gonna dog walk low ranks but can also work in some niche professional comp
The being trolled by a Lifeweaver once, to full hater pipeline is real.
I have a 74% wr on Zen this season. He feels great.
i had to check whether the video was playing at 1.5 times or not
Idc what you say, Sombra’s potential for game breaking still feels kinda ridiculous. I have seen way too many games where a sombra absolutely brutalizes a whole enemy team and is only beaten by someone better counter-picking sombra. It’s just not even fun joining a match and getting insta-killed by someone who is invisible, turns off your abilities and ult, and can run away after hitting you with DoT ensuring you still die anyways. I understand they’re making changes to make Sombra a viable and fun character to play, but I see a sombra in LITERALLY EVERY MATCH now and it’s just so annoying when a sombra decides to target you specifically and you basically have no chance.
Be good at predicting when they're coming. Either learn to play further back, or pick up Brig. Play around natural cover so that when they target you, there's a chance to get to cover and start the fight off.
I hate Sombra so much and I'm Mexican
@@j4imeme13Pffftttt 😂😂😂😂😂
I was waiting for this.
The zelda music in the back...
i just got stunned by a brig with her ult...
gurl was at least 2 meters, if not more, away from me
I scrolled to the end of the video and realized that I needed to play Orisa