Stainless Steel Welding 101: Most Common Mistakes (AHP AlphaTIG 201XD)

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  • Опубликовано: 18 июл 2019
  • Today we are showing the 5 most made mistakes that people make when welding stainless steel.
    1. Taking the filler rod out of the shielding gas when dabbing: 4:31
    2. Travel speed too slow: 5:56
    3. Travel speed too fast: 7:47
    4. Welding with Contaminated Tungsten: 9:07
    5. Travel angle too steep or shallow: 11:07
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Комментарии • 310

  • @Welddotcom
    @Welddotcom  4 года назад +21

    Tell us your biggest mistake when welding Stainless.

    • @ShainAndrews
      @ShainAndrews 4 года назад +5

      Never made a mistake. Therapist says I need to work on accepting mistakes as a part of life... but when I never make them I have nothing to reference.

    • @BoloH.
      @BoloH. 4 года назад +5

      Never bothering to learn to weld stainless. Or anything. Wish my local community college taught this instead of basket weaving or something like that.

    • @Portarius1984
      @Portarius1984 4 года назад +10

      Welding too slow or too much amperage. Not keeping the filler metal in gaseous cone, too much gas, cleaning with a carbon hand brush. Big no nos. I'm glad you did this manually. Pulse looks amazing but we all know it's easier. I'm going to show this to some students. Thanks! You guys do such excellent work and the editing and production team; high five to you.

    • @josecortez5765
      @josecortez5765 4 года назад +2

      About three months ago i was building some 18 ga. Stainless cabinets and dipped the tungsten damn near all of the way though the miter.

    • @robertsingleton1187
      @robertsingleton1187 4 года назад +2

      My biggest mistake is just not tig welding enough...

  • @bewing77
    @bewing77 3 года назад +45

    When starting out, I usually cut my tungsten into three pieces, sharpened both ends of each and then you have six dips before sharpening.

    • @time_lightsout_1186
      @time_lightsout_1186 2 года назад +3

      Or just have 6 full tungsten electrodes.

    • @TheDarthSoldier
      @TheDarthSoldier Год назад +5

      Until you dip both ends and can't get either end out of your torch without grinding

    • @InchFab
      @InchFab Год назад

      Great, now you can't sharpen them more than a few times before they're too short and have to be trashed. Idiot.

    • @JesseMcCall-on5mr
      @JesseMcCall-on5mr 8 месяцев назад

      Into two pieces. You’ll come to find out is too small. After a few grinds

  • @jasonpeaslee9865
    @jasonpeaslee9865 4 года назад +79

    Biggest mistake for me is dipping the tungsten, I was a good grinder long before becoming a decent welder.

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад +20

      It's funny how most of us are pro grinders before welders 🤣

    • @coryhalvorson8874
      @coryhalvorson8874 4 года назад +6

      the grinder and paint, makes us the welders we ain't. But these videos are saving me 15% or more on flap discs.

    • @miltonrichards4881
      @miltonrichards4881 3 года назад

      These guys suck

  • @brianmieszala9235
    @brianmieszala9235 4 года назад +12

    Long arching followed abruptly by dipping that tungsten. That's usually my go to when I want to give myself less time than I need to do the job.

  • @jrcicirello
    @jrcicirello 4 года назад +2

    Biggest mistake for me is taking my filler rod out of the gas coverage and sticking my filler rod. Until this video, I didn't understand why I was smooth on some passes and sticking on others. Thanks, going to the TIG table and practice after this post. Have a great weekend, you just made mine better.

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад +2

      Hopefully that fixes the problem for you 🍻 Thanks for the support

    • @jrcicirello
      @jrcicirello 4 года назад +1

      @@Welddotcom it did. No more sticking of the filler rod.

  • @EPTRotorsports
    @EPTRotorsports 9 месяцев назад

    I have been watching videos of people trying to show you of what we need to do...
    This is the first video of examples of what not to do, while you actually make the error.
    This video has provided me more than the previous 10 hours of welding youtube videos.

  • @scootersays
    @scootersays 4 года назад +10

    Always informative, always comical. Thank you all!
    And best wishes to Bob, hope to see him back soon as well!

  • @despizedicon
    @despizedicon 4 года назад +2

    Funny outtakes. Love this channel. Even though you make my welds look like the ones not to do. I'm a greenhorn but I'm not gonna quit. Thank you guys for the videos.

  • @kevinwebber2822
    @kevinwebber2822 2 года назад

    Very very well done folks! There are so many important points that you covered here that I have never seen (or so well explained) anywhere else, and I have watched a good many videos. Many thanks!

  • @75blackviking
    @75blackviking 2 года назад

    Great practical video on what to avoid. Really good visibility of what you're describing as well.

  • @SteveNielsenArt
    @SteveNielsenArt 4 года назад +8

    Great video! I've never had a problem laying beautiful welds on thicker materials. However a few years ago, I sold my suspension manufacturing fab shop and shifted my focus to building stainless sculptures. I mostly tig on 16ga stainless now days. I'll admit, welding thin stainless can be frustrating sometimes. My most common mistake is dipping the tungsten. Can be a pain in the ass sometimes when Im welding difficult or tight spaces. Also burning through when I cant get a good position. For example on the inside of a fish sculptures mouth.
    Thanks again for the great tech video.

  • @harolddowney6512
    @harolddowney6512 4 года назад

    Thanks for another great video! Hope all is well with Bob!

  • @jeremywatterson9594
    @jeremywatterson9594 4 года назад +3

    🤣🤣🤣 great tips and tricks as well as comedy!! Jason you've done an outstanding job since you joined and I always get a kick out of all the videos

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад +1

      TEXAS MADE WELDER knives and Fabrication thanks man, I really appreciate that. The video stuff is a whole new world for me.

  • @billquillin1952
    @billquillin1952 4 года назад +1

    I really enjoyed the outtakes at the end! APPLAUSE APPLAUSE

  • @Frankietomatoes6189
    @Frankietomatoes6189 4 года назад +3

    This is great!!! What I needed to see. Teardrop, keeping rod in, good pace. Key points I need to work on. Thanks

  • @daniele3275
    @daniele3275 4 года назад

    I love this little gags at the end of these videos
    Hope Bob come back soon I miss him

  • @aaroncloud8754
    @aaroncloud8754 3 года назад

    Very helpful information here on the TIG on stainless.

  • @pooopymist
    @pooopymist 4 года назад +2

    Dude! I’ve actually been using that same technique for the last few days. I can tell a significant difference in my ability to control the arc. Thanks for the advice man!

  • @TheZzziggy
    @TheZzziggy 4 года назад +6

    Hey, Cameraboy, nice to finally meet you! You look terrific!

  • @ypaulbrown
    @ypaulbrown 4 года назад +2

    Finally we get to see you.... awesome work you do Cameraguy..... thanks

  • @ChrisWojnarski
    @ChrisWojnarski 4 года назад +2

    My biggest mistake is not practicing as much as I want to lately. That’s why I am putting an air conditioner in my garage this week that way I can have no reason to practice more in this hot Florida heat. Thanks for the great video very helpful especially since most of my work is with stainless steel. 👍👍🙏

  • @Ninjavaz
    @Ninjavaz 2 года назад

    Very clear and well demonstrated .I find running on metal that thick I can get the nice colours and flow most of the time. However, on thinner material, 1~2mm I still get sugaring, especially running around small diameter pipe. If i drop the amps too low it seems to make it worse as takes too long to get the puddle. On higher amps I get the puddle, but quickly blow holes or cannot keep up with travel speed.

  • @cpcoark
    @cpcoark 4 года назад

    Can't say I've ever made a SS weld mistakes. That's because I have never welded SS. I'm just a hobbyist but your shows are helping me learn how. I just got a DC tig/inverter machine and setting it up for MIG/TIG.

  • @codbeastmode1233
    @codbeastmode1233 4 года назад +1

    Best video I have ever seen this is what new welders and as well as old welders need thanks brother

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      Thanks for the kind words and support 🙏

    • @codbeastmode1233
      @codbeastmode1233 4 года назад

      @@Welddotcom u welcome brother I think you should make a video on a root pass like the reason why you make a root pass si heavy what cause to much penetration in side the pipe I notice to much argon flow push the in weld in more then a 1/4 thanks

  • @coryhalvorson8874
    @coryhalvorson8874 4 года назад +4

    Thank you for this video, it was informative, funny, and kept me paying attention the whole time. Side note, you seem like a nice guy but I would be a little nervous being in the same room as you when those hands start working together

  • @kenhomeier8629
    @kenhomeier8629 4 года назад

    Good instruction. Great video.

  • @danielesilvaggi
    @danielesilvaggi 4 года назад

    a lot of us don't have this elaborate equipment but still great knowledge from the videos.

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      There wasn't anything elaborate in this video. All we used was an entry level TIG machine.

  • @n8ander
    @n8ander 3 года назад +1

    Jason: let me give you five examples of bad welds
    Me: all 5 examples look better than any weld I have yet to produce.

  • @ifell3
    @ifell3 4 года назад +13

    I liked the camera man!!

  • @tombeals8980
    @tombeals8980 4 года назад +2

    Another comment: When welding with electrodes keep the thumb of the supporting hand out of the way. If you grasp with that hand you limit your range of motion. Also brace One elbow, but not both. Again it limits your range of motion. Great Videos. Your camera guy is awesome! This is exactly what you cannot see looking over someone's shoulder when you are trying to learn.

  • @4speed3pedals
    @4speed3pedals 4 года назад +1

    Wow, sharpen both ends. So simple. Great tip.

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад

      Paul Straney cut the tungsten in half, sharpen both ends of each piece, now you have 4.

    • @4speed3pedals
      @4speed3pedals 4 года назад +1

      @@GodslilRedneck23 Both ends is fine for me. I dab too often so it would waste even more electrode in my case. Good idea for a steadier hand.

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад

      Paul Straney prop your torch hand on the table or piece you’re working on, sit in a chair and keep all the weight on your ass not your hands. Keep your hands loose and relaxed and slide them across the table or work piece. Make sure there’s nothing on the table that will catch on your gloves as you slide across the table.

  • @buckfever77man
    @buckfever77man 4 года назад +4

    Love the blooper reel keep those comin haha

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      Anytime we've got some worthwhile bloopers we'll keep throwing them in. 🍻

  • @markfryer9880
    @markfryer9880 4 года назад +3

    Good to finally meet the camera guy. I hope that things are going well for Bob and that he will be back soon. Good to see you guys having a laugh at work. A good bit of friendly banter makes for a fun and happy day at work and makes the day go faster.

  • @alasdairhamilton1574
    @alasdairhamilton1574 4 года назад

    You guy are having too much fun with out Bob😃🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  • @GraduatedIn
    @GraduatedIn 4 года назад

    I’ve only had one job on stainless last year, I had to fix a cart for the school cafeteria. I didn’t have time to be completely setup or clean everything. My most common mistake is losing travel angle. But I’m getting better!

  • @aluxd.7709
    @aluxd.7709 4 года назад +1

    Great video guys, keep it up

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      Thanks for the support 👍

  • @martinpetersen6266
    @martinpetersen6266 3 года назад

    awesome info for a beginner aka me. thanks a bunch

  • @Poverty_Welder
    @Poverty_Welder 4 года назад

    Wow I actually learned a lot, I really need to buy my own welding machine. My main problem is way to slow and dont know how to feed consistently.

  • @peaser7667
    @peaser7667 2 года назад

    Great video.

  • @v8trauma
    @v8trauma 4 года назад +1

    Smooth rod feeding, I need more practice.

  • @emasbury
    @emasbury 4 года назад +2

    I love the hair brush. :)

  • @STohme
    @STohme 4 года назад +1

    Nice video. Many thanks.

  • @ConvexBeats
    @ConvexBeats 4 года назад +18

    My biggest mistake(s) is when i dip tungsten into puddle and then keep welding as if nothing happened and the tip is all messed up 😂😂

  • @dabswellington4441
    @dabswellington4441 4 года назад

    Great video fellas🤘

  • @howardgreen6160
    @howardgreen6160 4 года назад +5

    The biggest mistake I make is dipping the tungsten into the puddle when welding aluminum. Harder to judge the depth/distance to the top of the puddle. Great video!

  • @robertkoontz7865
    @robertkoontz7865 3 года назад

    Great Tips !

  • @webduster1
    @webduster1 4 года назад +4

    To long of an ark. Love the videos keep up the great work. Where’s bob.

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад +1

      He's taking care of some personal matters. He'll be back, just don't have a timeline yet.

  • @daveglick5152
    @daveglick5152 4 года назад

    Ursa Major. that's me. thanks for all the good info. cheers

  • @davidwindsand8232
    @davidwindsand8232 4 года назад +1

    How about some videos with older basic weld machines that most people have access to? Would much appreciate.

  • @ChrisWojnarski
    @ChrisWojnarski 4 года назад

    What kind of gloves were those that the camera guy was wearing in the beginning and I think at the end too they were black and grey. Sorry for the dumb question they look like a nice comfortable pair of gloves I’ve been on the hunt for a nice pair of tig gloves for a couple years now and still haven’t found the ones yet. Thanks for the awesome helpful video 🙏

  • @C-M-E
    @C-M-E 4 года назад

    So my latest project is doing a crap ton of welding on jet engine parts, rather thin walled tubes, tanks, sheet-formed parts and a few 1/4" plates (all stainless), and outside is my only option. As much as I wanted to do tig that was out, so I either could do Oxy which is what I learned on but didn't want to be constantly running to the gas supply shop, or what I ended up with which is a MIG machine running Blue Demon SS .035 gasless/flux wire. I'm pretty good with a gas torch, but with this flux wire I'll get a pretty good string and then a glob or an erratic blow through spot that I have to fix. About half is ugly as all sin and I spend a fair amount of time with the grinder. The welds have all been solid but as this is a new process for me, I honestly can't tell if I'm doing a sh!t job or it's just a product of conditions marred by a make-do equipment choice and very thin material. Any good tips with the above conditions taken into account?
    For reference, the tank I believe is either 20 or 22 gauge (pretty comparable to a SS fire extinguisher if that helps) and the tubes and sheets are 16.

  • @codydevore8108
    @codydevore8108 4 года назад

    Bob Moffatt what is your opinion on the plymovent extractors? Looking at getting some mobile units for our welding shop. How do they compare to Miller/Lincoln? Thanks in advance

  • @JohnChuprun
    @JohnChuprun Год назад

    Biggest mistake is #4 for me, contaminated tungsten. I have a hard time trying to not get the arc too far away while not dipping the tungsten or something like that. The tip about the sharpen both sides is a good one... don't know why I didnt ever think of that.

  • @rmTheWalrus
    @rmTheWalrus 3 года назад

    lol, I have watched this about 3-4 times now, and I still laugh out loud around 9:30 at the "ah s__t" tip-n-dip moment. I know it was done for camera effect, but that pretty much was me, 100 times over, this past weekend...

  • @billshuey7422
    @billshuey7422 4 года назад

    living Thailand constant voltage is a huge problem. The starting amperage maybe correct but in a couple of seconds it may be way off. Most TIG welding machine here to not accept a foot control which makes this issue a big problem

  • @5t341tH
    @5t341tH 3 года назад

    Can you show your technique grinding the tungsten? How much do you grind away after dipping and when do you call it quits with that piece of tungsten and when to replace it

  • @danmenes3143
    @danmenes3143 4 года назад +1

    My biggest mistake: forgetting what a terrible welder I am. I weld to practice humility. But I hope, if I keep practicing, and trying to apply the advice from your excellent channel, someday I will make a weld I can be proud of.

  • @violence4740
    @violence4740 4 года назад

    Thank you

  • @TheBbarrow79
    @TheBbarrow79 2 года назад

    if you sharpen both sides then qtip you have to remove the back cap to slide the good side in since the qtip usually wont fit through collet. then if you qtip the other end you must sharpen with the collet still on bc you cant remove a 2 sided qtip from it

  • @haizemylife9122
    @haizemylife9122 4 года назад

    Starting my 2nd year of welding school this fall and dipping the tungsten is my biggest offender, I don't do it as much anymore, but still do, and it still sucks.

  • @markuschampos5750
    @markuschampos5750 2 года назад

    Can someone please tell me what tig-torch he was using? It looks great!

  • @Justintimemetal
    @Justintimemetal 4 года назад

    Trying to weld stainless plate to aluminum. Scrap bin was mixed up and I didn't notice until I tried welding it

  • @Aint1S
    @Aint1S 4 года назад

    Liking those timestamps!

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      Thanks for the feedback.

  • @toxicmongoose7061
    @toxicmongoose7061 4 года назад

    Biggest mistake for me is sitting watching too many weld.com youtube videos instead of welding.... need to get out there more for sure!

  • @ThomasShue
    @ThomasShue 4 года назад

    If you could only own one tig machine would it be the AHP 200 or the Everlast 185 hv?

  • @smokev8160
    @smokev8160 3 года назад

    I've got a ss304 test for an interview wensday. Gonna watch this 20 million times before then. Any advice fellows? I'd really appreciate it

  • @johnbladykas4885
    @johnbladykas4885 3 года назад

    What size argon tank do you use for that welder

  • @jakesmith6232
    @jakesmith6232 4 года назад

    What size breaker do you have for the machine

  • @richpitty
    @richpitty 4 года назад +1

    Hey guys I’m having a small issue with my stainless tig welding I can’t seem to get a shiny bead like shown here I always get a slight haze on my bead I’ve tried less amps diff cups and more has not sure what I’m doing wrong I know practice makes perfect but I’ve got a ton of hood time and can’t get rid of the haze any tips or tricks would be much appreciated. Thank you

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад

      Rich Pitty as crazy as this may sound, turn up your amps and move faster down the joint. You’re probably going to slow with less amps which in turn increases heat input and gives you that haze. It’s burning out the chromium and nickel.

  • @brycecanfield2363
    @brycecanfield2363 4 года назад +5

    My biggest mistake is not following a straight line. I just get focused on the torch and the filler and start curving away from the joint and then dip the tungsten

  • @sergeyloskutov5593
    @sergeyloskutov5593 3 года назад

    Spasibo !

  • @spencercurtis5626
    @spencercurtis5626 3 года назад

    Best thing in life is a diamond 6" bench grinder wheel to sharpen tungsten! Nice thing the tungsten lasts longer. I can fit eight pieces of stubby tungsten in a gel pen case. Works great I can make it two days before I have to resharpen (one day of welding and cut/measurements oh plus a smoke break) but the diamond wheel is awesome 👌

  • @jasonschagt6527
    @jasonschagt6527 4 года назад +2

    My most common mistake was too much heat on a horizontal lap weld in class. Have gotten better at it

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад

      Practice being fast and accurate with higher travel. You can use higher amps if you learn to travel fast to keep up and you'll get good results

  • @Strings-jg2to
    @Strings-jg2to 10 месяцев назад

    So having color means a higher oxide? Does it mess with the integrity of the weld?

  • @donaldberryhill647
    @donaldberryhill647 2 года назад

    How do you keep stainless from bending I weld box headers some of these are 8 ft long and 4 to 5 inches wide the stainless steel 308

  • @n8ander
    @n8ander 3 года назад

    Beginner here. I rarely weld stainless. Should I invest in a respirator?

  • @104littleal6
    @104littleal6 4 года назад

    Tungsten contamination. I'm good at it right now.

  • @trucker2b
    @trucker2b 4 года назад

    When stick welding..if u clean off the flux what will the weld look like

  • @MrTinkerer1
    @MrTinkerer1 4 года назад

    Not getting comfortable especially when doing a quick weld is usually when i dip my tip. Then i keep going because, hey it's a short weld right!

  • @trg3761
    @trg3761 4 года назад

    Lol, bob would be watchin you two and shaking his head.

    • @Welddotcom
      @Welddotcom  4 года назад +1

      Most certainly correct 🤣

  • @chrisjones6165
    @chrisjones6165 4 года назад

    Ramming my filler rod right into the tungsten, usually on the bottom of the the pipe

  • @williamstormoen140
    @williamstormoen140 4 года назад +1

    My biggest mistake is dipping my tungsten in the puddle. Always try to keep too tight of Arc....or I need new glasses haha😂

  • @jackstand3513
    @jackstand3513 4 года назад

    My most common mistake is thinking I can weld stainless. Dipping tongsten getting argon gas hose to not pull my part off the table. Getting them tacked before they move. Carbon steal is sort of easier except the magnet makes the ark jump around lol.

  • @WildcardKustoms
    @WildcardKustoms 4 года назад

    My most common mistake when it comes to TIG is i don't like to get as comfortable as possible. I just try i get through it. Not extremely detrimental to the weld but it usually causes me to have to stop more. That or it cause me to dip every once in a while.

  • @dougankrum3328
    @dougankrum3328 4 года назад

    Excellent video....but there around ….3:30.....can you emphasize that some employers and inspectors will fail a stainless weld with any 'color' as it is a minor type of corrosion. Very critical in food and chemical processing equipment....and it takes time to remove...

  • @beachboardfan9544
    @beachboardfan9544 4 года назад +1

    Damn they just keep making that welder a better and better deal!

  • @kylerconard6980
    @kylerconard6980 4 года назад

    Forgetting to turn my gas on but I can tell right when I light my arc. 🧐😁

  • @Holycity_hunter
    @Holycity_hunter 4 года назад +1

    What word was used at 8:14 to describe the weld between the plates? The captions option wrote out "etoshamiss".

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад +1

      Brandon Romero it’s autogenous. TIG welding without filler metal. Also known as a fuse weld.

    • @Holycity_hunter
      @Holycity_hunter 4 года назад +1

      Oh okay thank you for clarifying bro.

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад

      Brandon Romero sure thing man, thanks for watching.

  • @Chandler7157
    @Chandler7157 4 года назад +1

    Love the intro lol

  • @CaptainJasta
    @CaptainJasta 4 года назад

    When I’m rusty I occasionally make quite a bit of mistakes but One mistake I will not forget is cleaning the work table with an unsafe degreaser. I did this first starting out. Was very sick and itchy.

    • @CaptainJasta
      @CaptainJasta 4 года назад

      That is work table and piece also

    • @GodslilRedneck23
      @GodslilRedneck23 4 года назад

      Andreu Poulaki be very careful with what you clean your materials with. Acetone is pretty effective and a safe bet.

  • @LextechLighting
    @LextechLighting 4 года назад +1

    My biggest mistake is thinking Bob will always be here. I miss Bob.......WHAT ABOUT BOB!?! (Points for whoever gets that reference)

  • @glendelong1023
    @glendelong1023 4 года назад +5

    I can't do a root pass, can't run a hot pass, forget even trying a cover pass. What I can do and am really great at is dipping and sharpening Tungsten. No collage degree, but a PhD in sharpening and dipping. So if anyone needs advice on how to ruin and sharpen ...I am your man

  • @-DJ234
    @-DJ234 4 года назад

    My biggest mistake is a tossup between dipping the tungsten or too slow on the travel speed.

  • @JS-cg9gw
    @JS-cg9gw 4 года назад

    Travelling to fast and removing filler from shielding cone...still practiceing

  • @Kenny450m
    @Kenny450m 4 года назад

    Guilty of always forgetting to turn my machine from AC back to DC. And boom! Just like that, time to clean up the mess 😂

  • @buckfever77man
    @buckfever77man 4 года назад

    My most common mistake is pulling the electrode or filler metal a little too far from the gas coverage and bringing oxides or contamination into my welds

  • @jeremypetersen5396
    @jeremypetersen5396 4 года назад +3

    My most common mistake is waiting to long to get into welding school. I start next month.

  • @edwardgiovannelli5191
    @edwardgiovannelli5191 3 года назад

    10:30 "I still contaminate myself every once in a while"
    Yeah, I had weekends like that too

  • @davidspin5353
    @davidspin5353 4 года назад +1

    Bigest mistake was to lick the bead rite after I welded it, it looked so tasty.

  • @bruced1429
    @bruced1429 4 года назад

    my mistakes tig welding are not watching my amps , loosing focus on the puddle and shaking at times,, sometimes it works some times it don't