Is This Book Problematic? 🤷🏾♀️| Reading & Reviewing Peter Pan
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Hey ya'll! Welcome to another part of my “is this book problematic series where I revisit and review childrens books. This months pick is Peter Pan. Let me know in the comments if you’ve read this one or if you have any suggestions.
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So I read this last year as a little project, starting with the earliest iteration The Little White Bird, then Peter Pan, and finishing with Peter Darling (mainly based on Kate Pfeil's video on that subject). So I was also looking for clues and connecting dots which probably elevated the entire reading experience overall and I had a great audiobook.
I think what I enjoyed so much about the book were actually the gender roles and the casual sexism and mysoginy that was present in how the narrative treated Wendy as "different". It plays into stereotypes but also shows how kids think adults behave (like play acting the doctor scene or forcing Wendy into mothering the boys) and how children's imagination works (Tinkerbell being shunned for forever - a week). My nieces have played in such similar ways and I used to the same - playing house, playing adults, mirroring the world while also adding all these magical twists. Even killing the pirates and fighting the Indigenous people feels like a game cause they clearly don't yet fully understand what it means to die and what death entails.
It reminded me of Coraline in its attempt to capture both the magic and horror of childhood imagination.
I don't mind that book itself doesn't correct some of it's statements (it did not feel hypersexualized to me) cause I had a great time engaging with that book on that level - but as an adult who'se read articles and nonfiction about such topics. I don't really have an opinion on if kids should pick this up?
“I could be young - I wish I could be young” had me cackling.
I love these review series so much. Your analysis is so interesting to hear as a reader and a librarian.
Thank you love ❤️
So I love the story of Peter Pan (the different retellings, the movies, etc) but when I read the book as a teenager I felt pretty meh about it. I think what I liked about Peter Pan is that it made growing up seem less scary. We see the two extremes Peter Pan who is a stunted kid and Hook who is miserable adult. Wendy goes into the book thinking she never wants to grow up but after seeing what that really means, is able to enter adulthood while still being able to appreciate her childhood (unlike hook). Also I think since the term “teenager” wasn’t popular until recently that when referring to her as an adult he meant that she had entered puberty (could be wrong about this though). The story definitely has issues with racism and misogyny though that shouldn’t be overlooked.
Yeah there are some retelling that are interesting, I haven't read the book yet but there is a book called "Darling" by K Ancrum who got an Authenticity reader to have a better stand in for tiger lily named in the book Ominotago as an urban indian that is kind of a rare thing to see in a book. there is also a bunch of queer retelling of peter pan like "Lost Boi" by Sassafras Lowrey and "Peter Darling" by Austin Chant. if "Peter Darling" is too infamous then I would recommend "Lost Boi". talking about this kind of thing is good because this could give more people more ideas on how to retell these things better.
Thanks for the recommendations!!! ❤️❤️❤️
I loved the version of Peter Pan I had as a child, but it always felt to me like it was a story about very innocent first crushes and playing house. The problematic stereotypes felt like a child’s viewpoint on a world they only knew the basics of. We used to play Peter Pan , my best friend jonathon was Peter, I was Wendy his older sister was hook and my sister was tiger lily because she liked being tied to the tree! We loved that it was about playing at being grown up whilst remaining as children. That was in the 1970s. The book is absolutely full of imperialist stereotypes and assumptions, so totally racist and sexist. But it is a good window into the model of the world middle class children grew up with in Britain in the last century.
Jen Campbell did a deep dive on Peter Pan in an older video of hers. If I remember correctly she did a major project or thesis on it in her degree. It goes through some of the themes that you touch on, and JM Barrie, might be complementary to your reading.
Yeah...she did, but I think she privated that one with some other of her old videos! Jen's in depth reviews on the various fairytales was sooo interesting, I used to binge them just for fun!!! 👍💙
I’m so sad I missed them!
@@BookishRealm No actually Sorry...she still has the Peter Pan one active on her channel! Just search..."Jen Campbell Peter Pan Review" she talks about various fascets of Peter pan there! Very Sorry about the mix up!!! 😒☺😅
@@ghanshyamsingh3653 okay will do! Thank you!
@@BookishRealm Ohh! Your Welcome...I really love your channel and content! 💖👍👍🤗
Come for the excellent discussion of books, stay and watch your TBR grow...
I think this is a good analysis! Personally I've always been fond of Peter Pan and I think the issues that come up are a part of the story as I see it - how gender roles and prejudice are taught to kids and how childhood 'innocence' can also entail ignorance and perpetuation of harm if these things aren't challenged. I think the imposition of motherhood and playing house on Wendy and Peter's melancholy and miserable attitude create this counter-theme to the ideal of a childhood utopia, where the reality is that you can't escape growing up and changing, and trying to deny it will make you selfish and obnoxious and unkind. I've really kind of come to see it as a slightly dark parable of a fairy tale where if you stay in Neverland you become the worst version of your child self, ie Peter Pan.
Obviously there's issues with the narration and the authorial intent itself that don't add to anything, and the Native representation is a huge part of that. It's not a book I would give to a child unless they independently wanted to read it and had some discussion and context for it. But it is a story I grew up with and still have love for.
Yes, I find Peter Pan fascinating but I read/studied it in a university course in my early 20s and didn’t read it as a child. I think of it as essentially a horror book, full of creepy/unnerving things. I still get chills thinking of the line “Mrs Darling was dead and forgotten”. And how it’s suggested the lost boys were all babies that had died in their cribs. I think, like many children’s books, the darkness and creepiness of it has been whitewashed for movie adaptations because I truly don’t think it’s meant to be an uplifting, magical story for children or that Peter is meant to be a hero - Peter is awful and I think the text specifically tells us he is selfish, vain manipulator. And the last line of the book is about how heartless children are.
I wouldn’t recommend it for children to read it all, ironically!
Also looking into Barrie’s life makes this book harder to read imo since some young boys in his life wrote about how he abused them… It’s hard not to read some undertones into that w the baggage that surrounds Peter Pan in real life
iirc, JM Barrie had a pituitary gland disorder that prevented him from fully going through puberty. He was very short and retained some childlike features for his whole life. Not an excuse for racism or creepiness, but learning this about Barrie gave me a new lense for examining Peter Pan.
This is such a wonderful video! I’ve never read this and we didn’t watch this Disney movie as kids. I’ve only ever seen Finding Neverland, which I loved. But it seems like it just paints the author is a nice light and ignores negative aspects. I’m very interested in any of these reviews that you do!! ❤❤
So in all fairness a lot of the metaphorical aspects of the books are very hard to pick up on without the knowledge of the authors personal trauma and a thorough understanding of victorian culture. Peter can be read many ways but one of the more common reads is that Neverland is a manifestation of Windy’s psyche. Peter is a part of Windy, Tinkerbell is a part of Peter as well as Windy. So women being attracted to Peter is not a sexual attraction but their desire to express/experience being boyish. Tinkerbell is sexual but also very small, the most removed from Windy, and she also acts as a protective figure of the embodiment of childhood.
Great discussion. You make great points that I've not heard others consider
Thank you love ❤️
Great, fair-minded review of a classic that I’m glad I’ve never read! The read-alikes sound really interesting :)
Thank you love ❤️
I've never read the book, and only ever seen bits and pieces of any adaptations, but you actually have me really intrigued to try it. I'm veeeeery leery of older works as I have very little tolerance for the nonsense of 'the times', because often it was nonsense then too. But I'm too curious sometimes for my own good🤭! TFS 🙂
The conversation of older books and or classics being problematic is an interesting one. We can look at the book and say by todays standards it is problematic. Then what do we do with that? I remember when this conversation was about Mark Twain. I think they were discussing editing the book to remove those words. I love love love that you provide recommendations for alternative books.
I 100% hear this. I did not think the book was boring & I liked many aspects of it, but the problematic aspects are so central it’s hard to continue to read it. I remember wanting to like the idea of it more than I actually did
I’ve been looking forward to this review just based off how much you struggled through it 😂 thanks for biting the bullet for us! Lol
Side note: On these magic shores sounds cute and I’m gonna add that to the TBR for my niece and me to read together 🥰
Lmao I struggled so much
I read it as an adult and hated it. I remember thinking Peter was a jerk.
A complete jerk
I never read the book, only watched the disney film ages ago, so that was an interesting review! I had thought about reading the book because I finished the promised neverland manga last year and wanted to see all the inspiration/details of the original. But now I'll pass :')
I'm interested in your thoughts on The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett.
I'm new to your channel, but I'm really enjoying your personality and the way you think! This series really interests me, as I read a lot of the "classics" as a child in the '80s (shhhh I know I'm old). I'm trying to reread some of them, but some I'm afraid to damage the memories lol. Have your considered Mary Poppins for the series? That definitely hit different as an adult!
Ooo I definitely need to check that one out. Thank you for watching love ❤️
I felt the same way you did. I had to DNF it. 🤣 The movie is fun to watch. But that's where it ends for me.
I read it a few years ago and couldn't believe me eyes. Hated it. Not to send you down a rabbit hole, but there is a lot of horrific stuff written about Barrie as a person. Nope.
Oooo I’m very interested in that rabbit hole
The only version of Peter Pan that I've watched all the way through and have loved is the one from the show Once Upon A Time. I've actually been re-watching that series and last week I watched most of season 3, which is where we're introduced to Peter Pan and the first half of the season takes place in Neverland. I don't think I've ever watched any of the movies all the way through and I definitely never read the book; never really cared for the Peter Pan story except for the Once Upon A Time version. I love the way they twist all of the classic fairy tales in that show. It would be interesting to see you do a video like this for The Little Mermaid or Alice in Wonderland.
Ooo those are great selections!
When I reread children's classics, I have to remind myself that many were a bit dark and depressing.
They are!
I feel so validated. It was boringgg and a reflection of some of the terrible views of the time. I found it hard to separate and I didn't want to because it didn't inspire me to try to rationalize any form of enjoyment because there was no enjoyment to be had. The Secret Garden has some equally troubling views (thought towards Indians, not Native Americans), but I enjoyed the book otherwise, so I do try to see the attitude as a product of the time. But Peter Pan I just didn't care and it was a slog to get through, so the problematic aspects were just more reasons to dislike it.
Ooo I may need to revisit The Secret Garden!
I didn't even know it was a book before it became a movie and iconic Character. So yea. How can anyone read a problematic book and still love it. Promote it.... Make a whole movie ! And Disney characters out of it and not have anything to say about what's wrong with them. ? This really sheds a light on how I feel about being black. And being black in America.
I am not sure I read this before last year. I know the story from Disney, etc. I hated it when I read it. So much is problematic that there is little left to enjoy.
Thank you for doing the lords work! 😂
🤣🤣🤣
The original Disney animated movie is pretty problematic too. I don’t see it widely shown as much as I used to thankfully
I can’t remember if it was Lewis Carroll or JM Barrie but one of them had a collection of very suggestive pictures of scantily clad young girls. So you aren’t far off with noticing certain vibes and tones within the text.
I love Peter Pan retellings that take a darker tone with the story because it seems truer to the spirit of the characters.
I don’t know when’s the last time I’ve seen the movie but I’m not surprised
I never was interesting in the book but I do like all the movies.
The movies are classics lol!
Tbf, I don't find it odd, that the children were left alone at home, especially at that time. But I know there is a huge difference in how the US and continental Europe thinks about raising children. 😅
For a school project, I had to look into perpetrators of sexual violence against children and it turned out that often they themselves were victims and the children they seek out are around the same age they were when they were abused. Basically childhood trauma can get you stuck in the time period where the trauma happened. Listening to you talk about Peter Pan (never having read it), made me wonder if the author might have had some childhood trauma and according to wiki, his brother died when he was young and his mother did not cope with it well. I feel this might do it. 🤔
I hated Peter Pan when I read it. I was absolutely shocked that people found it charming as a children's story. Even beyond all of the issues that you brought up, I found it consistently disturbing. The dad acted like a dog and lived in a cage??? The horrid descriptions of the baby teeth??? I wish I hadn't read it, which I rarely think.
I just realized that I've never read Peter Pan. I guess I just assumed I had since I vaguely remember the story but clearly I have not. Must be from growing up with various film adaptations. I can probably think of more since everything is so cross media.
I have a couple of those too!
I think when Barrie wrote Peter Pan, he originally planned for Peter to be the villain. He decided to tone him down but this is probably why he comes across as unlikely. I've never been a fan of him either
That makes sense
How you feel about this book is how I feel about Alice in Wonderland. I love the Disney cartoon, but I couldn't stand the book and still don't understand why people love it so much.
Ooo I need to read that one !
I've never read this book and I've really only watched the Disney movie but, oh my, THAT is problematic! Ever since I learned that the "real" Peter ended up taking his own life, this story has left a bad taste in my mouth.
I’ve heard that too!
Great analysis as always! Never really enjoyed Peter Pan movies at all and now with the lens of present day it is a no thank you to Peter Pan from me…
Thanks for the alternative/in tandem titles 😊
Thanks for watching love ❤️
Other than the racism….I had a problem with all the murder in the book. It was off putting to read in a children’s book.
That too lol