I worked for IBM Labs porting software onto the XT/370 - an antecedent of this guy. It added 3 cards to a standard XT with a 10 meg drive. IIRC there was a 512k RAM card, a 3270 terminal emulator and a 68000 board with the processor remasked to run 370 ISA. We ran a version of VM/CMS on it and ported compilers and even the CICS transaction processing system. What fun!!
Dang. So it ran a 68k with custom IBM microcode to emulate _most_ of the 370 instruction set. Then another unmodified 68000 was needed to handle the instructions that couldn’t fit into the first, then they added an Intel 8087 FPU again running custom microcode to handle S/370 floating point instructions. It’s a kludge at a scale that only IBM could have pulled off.
@@beefchicken Yep - I remembered about the remasked 8087 after posting. Remarkably it did work and delivered about 100 kIPS at a time when mainframes were typically 1-3 MIPS.
I recall using one _once_ at the computing center to extract my personal files from my mainframe account at the end of a course that involved development under VM/CMS. No idea how many if the XT/370 features it had, as I basically used a file transfer interface and a stack of blank quality floppies. But it was clearly a special machine as there was only the one, and it sat right outside the machine room, unlike the long rows or 3278 full keyboard terminals.
Yay, the PS/2! My high school was completely outfitted with these. It was cool to use a machine that didn't require a handful of boot disks to start (unlike at home) 😉
No, USB keyboard are way better. Some of them even allow you to plug the mouse and other peripherals into them and pass them through. Check our Ben Eater's video about them, USB keyboards also have a much faster update speed so they're better in every way. Note: this is sarcasm, I understand the difference between the computer PS/2 and the keyboard/mouse protocol PS2. This is a joke, please do not get mad or reply about "no that's the wrong PS2" or I will drop a big fat r/woooosh on you faster than an 8MHz pentium
I also have a 77 that ran a register system in a super market for years! They are a tough machine. I recently had a power supply failure take it out but was lucky enough to find a replacement while I repair the original. Mine also runs os/2! Great video!
Listening to you vocalise what goes through my brain every time I use Windows 3 gave me a genuine LOL. I do like these machines, but the whole MCA and messing with floppy boot record thing is a major pain. Lovely looking things, though - just needs a nice IBM CRT to go with it. Sudden death? My first guess is one of those infernal tantalum caps.
OS/2? You have my attention! In my sci-fi dreams, OS/2 eventually comes back to dominate the OS market. I see myself using an OS/2 laptop while sipping a Zima in the lounge on Babylon 5.
I was so frustrated with windows 3.1 that I went to 0S/2 v.2 and hung in until Window 98 finally made me switch back. Went to Warpstock and everything.
Typically called "pause break" divided by a line, not sure why. But, windows+pause/break used to be really slick as a way to pull up the system control panel (or device manager?)
Okay so, Windows 3.1 File Manager... The one and only thing in technology that I know a little better than Marc. Am savoring the moment because it'll never happen again.
Oh, now that was entertaining. Folks familiar with HP mainframes trying to figure out how OS/2 works. Don't worry, what you are doing is normal for figuring out how the POS works. Don't worry, the documentation won't really help. I think one problem you are having is the BIOS does not really know you added memory to it. So when the "boot" happens, its getting the wrong info from the BIOS. This is not a self-adapting system. It's stone knives and bear skins.
See the following episodes. Has nothing to do with basics like BIOS setup or memory, or we wouldn't even have made an episode about it. It's way more interesting (and difficult to repair) than that!
@@CuriousMarc I noticed. It's just that I started life out working on PC's and IBM's were the worst. That proprietary bus was a nightmare. And on top of it, you paid at least $1000 more for a card that would fit it, compared to a normal one.
@@kevinreardon2558 I used a 77 as my main work PC for years. The PS/2 MCA architecture uses those config diskettes and hidden partition to store the equivalent of UEFI flash rom variables. The diskette/partition contains the config user interface for each installed card AND the actual configuration data, mixed so thoroughly that any damage can be fatal to future service. That Microsoft OS software corrupts it automatically is typical of MS incompetence.
“You’ll know I only do PCs on special occasions” yes! That’s what got me excited when I noticed this. So glad you got the finicky MicroChannel one 😆 love the ultimate purpose too
I had a AIX R/390. That was a microchannel system with a S/390 processor on a card and a microchannel bus & tag channel processor. That booted AIX and then ran the S/390 emulator. I had OS/390, VM and Linux on S/390 (Marist College version) running on that. There was one time we took the processor across the road to the other IBM office and into the basement. That was the mainframe machine room (complete with a raised floor) and we hooked up a 3MB bus & tag 3480 tape (cartridge drive) so I could install some software that had been delivered from IBM manufacturing on a couple of tapes. I've still got some of the CD-ROMS that include OS/390 stashed away.
@@kaitlyn__L it would have been RedHat 4 something, or Slakware. It may have been both. Starting with Slakware, then going to RedHat 4. It was the time frame I I transitioned to RedHat to make use of the RPM packaging as opposed to applying tar files in particular directories.
Would you believe me when i say that at my job in 2021 i use an IBM AT with DOS 3.0, a couple of 486 with OS/2 machines, a 386 with DOS 6.3, and a small sampling of win98, xp, and vista machines? Also have a Fluke 9100A and 1720 series I've been struggling with (mostly due to poor documentation from the engineers who wrote the test programs a few decades ago). I repair Legacy Avionics Systems if you're aghast. I once spent a week and a half manually testing and Roll computer... that was analog... really wish I'd payed more attention in calculus...
@@CuriousMarc www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parallel-Port-4-Digit-Motherboard-Diagnostic-Card-PC-Debug-Tester-USB-Tester-/265057391079?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 I used a cheapo 8 bit logic analyser - I thought I published the video on it - but still in the edit suite.
@@CuriousMarc: It's easy enough to provide a link to the short video I did on the parallel port POST code reader - there is an eBay link in my response comment that still has them available: ruclips.net/video/smCmseL4Y-Y/видео.html
Wow, this takes me back to my college days. I worked on an IBM 4341 in a research group and had to do sort of the opposite of this PS/2 channel emulator... we had an IBM 7170 DACU which connected a bus&tag channel from the mainframe and interfaced it to a DEC UNIBUS. My job was to connect the 4341 to the lab's TCP/IP network via a DELUA Unibus Ethernet card. So fun writing IBM Channel programs.
Really? I was under the impression they were already on a downward trend under pressure from clone makers for some time by then. It certainly was a failed attempt at forcing a transition though.
I remember the that with the win 3.1 file manager, you could open two file windows and drag and drop between the two. I still have our lab windows 3.1 image we used. I also remember we had a school lab of PS/2 model 30s. Curse that dang floppy to configure the cards. What a pain.
Is it clear or just open with the lid off? By the way, making a fully clear floppy (8" or 5¼") would cause problems with the optical sensors that detect insertion, write protection etc. It would also be difficult to make a clear version of the inner padding.
Marc do you have an IBM 3420 Magnetic Tape Unit Field Tester? It is a small box with knobs, toggle switches and a short flylead cable that plugs directly into the 3420 tape unit and allows the unit to be tested in isolation - start/stop, rewind/forward, read/write and so on, no bus/tag required. I bought mine to go with my IBM 3420 tape unit that I bought on eBay "by accident" (and was forced to get it shipped interstate between Xmas and New Year). Let me know if you can't find one, I may be able to lend you mine.
Thanks! I know about it, and Carl has lend me his, so I am good for now. But wait. You bought an IBM 3420 *by accident*? Like it was just under 1000lbs so you did not pay any attention? Now I want to know how that happened!
@@CuriousMarc Glad you have the tester! I would be very interested to know how it goes. With my 3420, it appeared on Oz eBay listed as just 'Old Computer' would you believe. I put the initial bid on for a bit of fun and at a very low amount expecting to be outbid, and so I could track it easily. Later I had second thoughts as I didn't really want to have to ship it and got a bit worried I would win as the seconds ticked down. I groaned when sure enough I did. Then came the hassle of getting it. A furniture removalist was doing an interstate backload between Xmas/New Year (I was incredibly lucky to find that offer at a good price). I told them it was 'the size of a fridge, perhaps a bit heavier'... LOL. The two delivery guys dropped it off at my mum's place, they really struggled with it a lot getting it into her garage so she offered them a beer (Xmas here in Oz summer is hot). When it came to moving it to my place a few years later the box truck hydraulic tailgate lift almost didn't lift it. I don't have 3-phase power so it'll be the 12th of never before I power it up, I suppose. But it sure looks cool. Would a single to 3-phase converter unit work?
@@1944GPW That’s what I intend to do, power them with a 3 phase converter. We’re not quite even sure why it would need 3 phase beyond the vacuum motor: the reel motors are DC.
@@CuriousMarc Fantastic! I will be sure to follow that adventure very closely and with a great degree of self-interest (As if I don't already follow you guys restoration adventures like it is! ;)
When IBM came out with the PS/2 line they made sure *everything* was proprietary. They were otherwise pretty nice (albeit overpriced) machines for their time.
I still have a 286/VGA based IBM PS/1 in the attic. Should be in perfect working condition. Those interesting machines could boot into a simple graphical user interface (running under IBM DOS 4.0) straight out of the ROM. They had 1.44 MB FDD and 512 kB RAM and grayscale monitor as the base configuration, plus a 20 MB HDD, color monitor and 512 kB more RAM as an add-on option. They came with Microsoft Works, and some great IBM software that would teach you to use the keyboard. They had some extra proprietary cable to the monitor and PC speaker sound would come from the monitor instead from the PC. They were very compact machines (but had no option to add ISA add-on cards!)
It would be handy to know if the front LED's light up. I suspect not and a new PSU is needed. I installed setup and maintained most of the PS/2 range at some point and they were bulletproof.
@CuriousMarc Hello, I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 and It has a floppy drive problem, and I accidentally wiped the hard drive while trying out NORTON MALWARE removal Deluxe Edition floppy disks I bought.
I love the PS2 machines looks, I love their build quality but the one's that have MCA ... man its hard to justify (the few models with ISA are usually the really old or low budget models) worked on a pile of these, its either the psu or the tantalum cap's on the motherboard (let it run long enough after failure and it might show itself!)
My bets are PSU with both failed capacitors, and dry joints on the power transistors, along with dry joints on the transformer. Likely you will also find the higher value resistors are either drifted higher, or totally open circuit as well, so the PSU will not start up. Other failures are diodes that go short circuit, stopping the power supply from starting up into the near short.
I remember the lesser version of these when I was in Public School. With some of them, it took 45 minutes to an hour (A entire class period) to get into Windows
I had one of these. It had an intel overdrive cpu. I miss that antiquity. Mine was using an scsi 640MB drive. Without the Setup disk you could make no upgrades to it. Not even add a CD-rom drive.
I used to be a master of the system partition of PS/2’s while working at IBM in the late 90s! I seldom recall anything now but there is a way to access the system partition from the hard disk and I think that is what the system is trying to tell you to do right at the end of the video in order to back it up because there are system options are loaded in the hard drive and NOT in the boot disk you are using, and if you loose those system options then the system will NOT boot.
I remember when OS/2 Warp first launched. It felt like they took OS/2 2.1, removed all the documentation from the box, added a little bit of extra polish, and did a big marketing campaign behind it. Back in those days, I hated Win 3.1 so much that I ran OS/2 as my primary OS. I also feel like it would have been a bit more successful of IBM actually dared to make it a "default" option on their machines, rather than an "alternative" choice no one knew about.
And all of their proper AIX machines (RS/6000) also used MCA peripherals, so I wonder if any of those could also drive this hardware. Then again, I'm not sure I ever heard of anything actually being compatible between the two product lines (despite the same connector).
you do ham radio ?? I remember the first time I touched a computer was a apple iie trying to draw with a turtle with a program on a cassette tape, then a sinclair zx81 copying code from a book and lose all of it when you shut it off, then my dad got a IBM PCjr, 8088, 16k of ram, 16 color monitor, 360k disquette drive and I must say it is the first time I stated to program on my own with DOS and running basic. We then got a slew of computer as they got more powerfull, 286, 386, 486, Pentium, Pentium II which is still have to this day with a soundblaster 16 and a nVidia V3400TNT video card, PIII and VI up to newer generations... it's crazy to see how it did evolve in 38 years !
Seeing Marc struggle with Windows 3.1 like that is hilarious. I used to have a page on it and hang out in the PS/2 newsgroup something like almost 2 decades ago, and there still is a Model P70 stashed away in my parents' basement (not sure if it still works at all, the floppy drive had called it quits as most of them do, bloody SMD electrolytics). But yeah, there was a reason why we would rather be using Calmira than trusty Program Manager back in the day.
The first boot we saw in the first video we did not hear a beep when booting normally. For most motherboards there's a speaker connected to it to sound error beeps from the BIOS reporting. Not for this machine ?
@@CuriousMarc OK, I hear, indeed, I was referring to 03:35. The fact that it worked at first (and that the BIOS gets stuck) makes me think of (electrolytic) capacitors, on the motherboard or in the PSU. The PSU can measure OK, but is it needs testing for stability under load. I would have tried another as first, but I cannot tell from here if it is a special piece. You could check with a scope for cleanness of all the voltages.
Unfortunately I don't think I have any mca parts laying around at this point. Or at least if I do, it's somewhere I don't know. On the other hand I have a few EISA cards from a similar vintage of high end Compaq that I haven't brought myself to strip components from, let me know if anyone needs them! Oh man hated the whole "setup program or drivers on hidden partition" thing back in the day. Was really a pain when drives died.
My 486 still runs it's original 1993 install of Windows 3.1.. There is a video of me booting it up on my channel in fact. My only gripe with it really is the lack of a mouse scroll wheel.. hard to believe how strange it feels these days not having that function
@@PaulaXism I don't think Mac has a scroll wheel, so I don't know how they get anything done. Can you do any engineering stuff on a Mac with only 2 buttons?
@@SidneyCritic You rather used cursor up/down for scrolling and clicking the scroll track for paging along (or, if you had an Extended Keyboard™, page up/down keys). Early scroll wheels felt rather cluncky in comparison. And, of course, your Mac mouse had just a single button! :-)
Funny watching you trying to think down to Windows 3.1 level! A while back I was trying to get a PC to boot DOS 3.3 and was dammed if I could work out why it wouldn't read the hard disk. Then I remembered the maximum partition size on Dos 3 is 32 Megabytes, not 32 Gigabytes...
Is that a icom 7300 in the bottom right corner at 10:52. I’m familiar with these but I’m truly stuck in the past with my Heathkits, hallicrafters and national. M7BLJ
I think the long bios boot wait time might be because you have sooooo much RAM. I remember having a dell dimension 486sx in 1994 and the memory test always took ages even with 8Mb!!🤣
Marc, I have an IBM s/370 Channel Emul A adapter card if you would be interested in it. IBM FRU 06f3160. I bought it at goodwill years ago and have had it since. I'd love to see it go to someone that can use it.
I have a couple PS/2 in storage, they are a real pain in the backside to get running, but I kept the keyboards active... (currently typing on one hehe). [and OS/2 is a wonderful system, but possibly the most difficult to run on a virtual machine]
The hidden partition remind me of a story. My dad once told me about an anti-piracy hack that was on old disks (probably floppy disks) where there was a physically corrupt sector of the disk. The program would write and then read that sector, and if it wrote correctly it knew that it was a copied disk. (because the real disk would return corrupt random data.) He said his friends and him spent hours going line-by-line through hex editors comparing the two copies and couldn't figured it out. Eventually someone designed a device that plugged in between the computer and drive and would defeat the anti-piracy thing somehow. Wish I knew more specifics. The only other thing I know is that he was backing up software that he legally owned and not copying or distributing it.
I'd start with unplugging the hard drive. I've seen where a crashed hard drive will hold the machine in reset. I remember the old days of PCs. Can't say as I miss them.
Takes me back to when the PS/2 came out and we decided to make an MCA networking adaptor, because at the time we were doing ISA network adaptors so obviously the PS/2 was the way forward, right? By the time we had a working product, several things had become clear. First, MCA and OS/2 were IBM's revenge on the world for the massive lack of respect that clones represented. We were going to suffer, and we were going to suffer hugely, for the sin of pride, and IBM had decided to make life as painful as possible for anyone who wanted to play. Second, nobody wanted to play. IBM's hubris had salted the fields and burned the village. Walking away from being an MCA developer was the easiest decision ever.
@@IBM_Museum It was only different because IBM wanted to continue to gouge their customers with their own proprietary standards that you could licence at huge cost - the market said get stuffed. So yes it was a flop
@@CuriousMarc thats nice!! i did some work on a SEG 15, german DDR spy set. I can really recommend one of them. Really interesting construction and really crisp reception.
Stop hitting buttons lol! My first PC was an IBM PS/2 386 sx16, with MCA architecture ZERO problems booting MS-Dos off of floppy. Also paid like $400 dollars for a 4MB memory stick.
And people wondered why I was such a fan of the Amiga!!! Good grief..I remember working on these things, and assorted clones of course. I also recall briefly playing with OS2Warp and it persuading me that Windows 3 was actually better....... Kids today have no idea how lucky they are :)
not everything is worse today… every installation you did back then was a pain in the ass and took forever.. I don‘t miss the machine crashing on disk 48 out of 50
I'm chuckling because I know you can troubleshoot an entire alto computer inside and and out; the break key is in the top row next to the indicators. Welcome to the graphical MS-DOS executive, err, I mean "File Manager" it's a brave new world. 🙂
Ah yes IBM locking you into their OS2. I use to have to use them to program their mainframes using Visual Age Generator and of course had a second pc on my desk to run Windows.
I worked for IBM Labs porting software onto the XT/370 - an antecedent of this guy. It added 3 cards to a standard XT with a 10 meg drive. IIRC there was a 512k RAM card, a 3270 terminal emulator and a 68000 board with the processor remasked to run 370 ISA. We ran a version of VM/CMS on it and ported compilers and even the CICS transaction processing system. What fun!!
Dang. So it ran a 68k with custom IBM microcode to emulate _most_ of the 370 instruction set. Then another unmodified 68000 was needed to handle the instructions that couldn’t fit into the first, then they added an Intel 8087 FPU again running custom microcode to handle S/370 floating point instructions. It’s a kludge at a scale that only IBM could have pulled off.
@@beefchicken Yep - I remembered about the remasked 8087 after posting. Remarkably it did work and delivered about 100 kIPS at a time when mainframes were typically 1-3 MIPS.
Developed in Endicott. I worked on it.
I recall using one _once_ at the computing center to extract my personal files from my mainframe account at the end of a course that involved development under VM/CMS. No idea how many if the XT/370 features it had, as I basically used a file transfer interface and a stack of blank quality floppies. But it was clearly a special machine as there was only the one, and it sat right outside the machine room, unlike the long rows or 3278 full keyboard terminals.
Yay, the PS/2! My high school was completely outfitted with these. It was cool to use a machine that didn't require a handful of boot disks to start (unlike at home) 😉
No, USB keyboard are way better. Some of them even allow you to plug the mouse and other peripherals into them and pass them through. Check our Ben Eater's video about them, USB keyboards also have a much faster update speed so they're better in every way.
Note: this is sarcasm, I understand the difference between the computer PS/2 and the keyboard/mouse protocol PS2. This is a joke, please do not get mad or reply about "no that's the wrong PS2" or I will drop a big fat r/woooosh on you faster than an 8MHz pentium
@@aaronjamt thats the cringiest comment I've ever read, wow.
@@nixietubes When did I ask?
I also have a 77 that ran a register system in a super market for years! They are a tough machine. I recently had a power supply failure take it out but was lucky enough to find a replacement while I repair the original. Mine also runs os/2! Great video!
Listening to you vocalise what goes through my brain every time I use Windows 3 gave me a genuine LOL. I do like these machines, but the whole MCA and messing with floppy boot record thing is a major pain. Lovely looking things, though - just needs a nice IBM CRT to go with it. Sudden death? My first guess is one of those infernal tantalum caps.
OS/2? You have my attention!
In my sci-fi dreams, OS/2 eventually comes back to dominate the OS market. I see myself using an OS/2 laptop while sipping a Zima in the lounge on Babylon 5.
I was so frustrated with windows 3.1 that I went to 0S/2 v.2 and hung in until Window 98 finally made me switch back. Went to Warpstock and everything.
I remember that we called it OS half!
Loving the upload frequency 💙
The "Break" key is the one that is missing a keycap on your keyboard :)
Typically called "pause break" divided by a line, not sure why. But, windows+pause/break used to be really slick as a way to pull up the system control panel (or device manager?)
Or otherwise known as the Pause/Break key :P
@@rpavlik1 that still works- opens the system info
Break is the Pause key, you just happen to be missing that one key cap. It's the third to the right of F12, on top of PageUp, by the NumLock LED.
I could just about let the break thing slide, it's a bit obscure after all - but apparently he can't find escape either, and that's just plain WTF.
Okay so, Windows 3.1 File Manager... The one and only thing in technology that I know a little better than Marc. Am savoring the moment because it'll never happen again.
Oh, now that was entertaining. Folks familiar with HP mainframes trying to figure out how OS/2 works. Don't worry, what you are doing is normal for figuring out how the POS works. Don't worry, the documentation won't really help. I think one problem you are having is the BIOS does not really know you added memory to it. So when the "boot" happens, its getting the wrong info from the BIOS. This is not a self-adapting system. It's stone knives and bear skins.
yea, I have to imagine he didn't set the bios properly after adding the ram. also, if he turns off the memory test, it will boot faster.
@@AllenKll Wait till he finds out OS/2's other name: "Please wait"
See the following episodes. Has nothing to do with basics like BIOS setup or memory, or we wouldn't even have made an episode about it. It's way more interesting (and difficult to repair) than that!
@@CuriousMarc I noticed. It's just that I started life out working on PC's and IBM's were the worst. That proprietary bus was a nightmare. And on top of it, you paid at least $1000 more for a card that would fit it, compared to a normal one.
@@kevinreardon2558 I used a 77 as my main work PC for years. The PS/2 MCA architecture uses those config diskettes and hidden partition to store the equivalent of UEFI flash rom variables. The diskette/partition contains the config user interface for each installed card AND the actual configuration data, mixed so thoroughly that any damage can be fatal to future service. That Microsoft OS software corrupts it automatically is typical of MS incompetence.
“You’ll know I only do PCs on special occasions” yes! That’s what got me excited when I noticed this. So glad you got the finicky MicroChannel one 😆 love the ultimate purpose too
I love how at 12:00 it won't boot but will spit out the diskette like magic.
I had a AIX R/390. That was a microchannel system with a S/390 processor on a card and a microchannel bus & tag channel processor. That booted AIX and then ran the S/390 emulator. I had OS/390, VM and Linux on S/390 (Marist College version) running on that. There was one time we took the processor across the road to the other IBM office and into the basement. That was the mainframe machine room (complete with a raised floor) and we hooked up a 3MB bus & tag 3480 tape (cartridge drive) so I could install some software that had been delivered from IBM manufacturing on a couple of tapes.
I've still got some of the CD-ROMS that include OS/390 stashed away.
I had one of these. I seem to remember I got it up to 64 Meg, and I ran Linux on it for a year or two as my home workstation.
That sounds fun. Which early distribution was it?
@@kaitlyn__L it would have been RedHat 4 something, or Slakware. It may have been both. Starting with Slakware, then going to RedHat 4. It was the time frame I I transitioned to RedHat to make use of the RPM packaging as opposed to applying tar files in particular directories.
Notably, the original Linux was written for a smaller PS/2 machine.
Watching your videos more and more reminds me of House MD. Similar plot structure. 😅
Would you believe me when i say that at my job in 2021 i use an IBM AT with DOS 3.0, a couple of 486 with OS/2 machines, a 386 with DOS 6.3, and a small sampling of win98, xp, and vista machines? Also have a Fluke 9100A and 1720 series I've been struggling with (mostly due to poor documentation from the engineers who wrote the test programs a few decades ago). I repair Legacy Avionics Systems if you're aghast. I once spent a week and a half manually testing and Roll computer... that was analog... really wish I'd payed more attention in calculus...
worth knowing the parallel port puts out it’s POST status codes in hex - you can use a logic analyser or bcd to hex display. they are also on ebay
Really? Any doc about that? We saw the BIOS writing error codes but had no idea where it went!
Best investment if someone is around PS/2s - the parallel port POST readers are less than $10 USD on eBay.
@@CuriousMarc www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parallel-Port-4-Digit-Motherboard-Diagnostic-Card-PC-Debug-Tester-USB-Tester-/265057391079?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
I used a cheapo 8 bit logic analyser - I thought I published the video on it - but still in the edit suite.
@@IBM_Museum Thanks, I am furiously looking for one and my Google-Fu is failing me. Can you respond a link? I will let it through.
@@CuriousMarc: It's easy enough to provide a link to the short video I did on the parallel port POST code reader - there is an eBay link in my response comment that still has them available: ruclips.net/video/smCmseL4Y-Y/видео.html
Yesssss, OS/2 and MCA Thanks!!!!!
I bet I can get that going!
hdd sounds that bring back so many memories.
I spent most of the video trying to see the model number of the Icom rig in the bottom left😁
YAY! OS/2... if you run into problems, i phased out the last productive(!) 24/7 OS/2 (eComstation) in 2017.
Wow, this takes me back to my college days. I worked on an IBM 4341 in a research group and had to do sort of the opposite of this PS/2 channel emulator... we had an IBM 7170 DACU which connected a bus&tag channel from the mainframe and interfaced it to a DEC UNIBUS. My job was to connect the 4341 to the lab's TCP/IP network via a DELUA Unibus Ethernet card. So fun writing IBM Channel programs.
That tektronix scope with all those modules and solid state storage.
6:10 - anybody notice the group of people in the print ad is the cast from the TV series M*A*S*H...
The IBM proprietary MC bus architecture was it’s undoing as the dominant force in the PC world.
Really? I was under the impression they were already on a downward trend under pressure from clone makers for some time by then. It certainly was a failed attempt at forcing a transition though.
@@rpavlik1 Yes, happened when they switched from ISA to proprietary to shut out competition.
Brings back memories. Mostly bad ones. :) Machines were so painfully slow back then, but we didn't know any better.
7:35 "It looks like a Macintosh" (while Marc is constantly bitching about not being able to do anything with it, lol)
His point was that "It looks like a Macintosh" but couldn't actually do anything. That was Microsoft's thing at the time.
I remember the that with the win 3.1 file manager, you could open two file windows and drag and drop between the two. I still have our lab windows 3.1 image we used. I also remember we had a school lab of PS/2 model 30s. Curse that dang floppy to configure the cards. What a pain.
I cant wait to see those drives working
1:42
Ooh, that is beautiful! I have never seen a completely clear floppy drive before!
Next on the menu, completely clear 3-1/2” floppy disks! 😝
Is it clear or just open with the lid off?
By the way, making a fully clear floppy (8" or 5¼") would cause problems with the optical sensors that detect insertion, write protection etc. It would also be difficult to make a clear version of the inner padding.
Marc do you have an IBM 3420 Magnetic Tape Unit Field Tester? It is a small box with knobs, toggle switches and a short flylead cable that plugs directly into the 3420 tape unit and allows the unit to be tested in isolation - start/stop, rewind/forward, read/write and so on, no bus/tag required. I bought mine to go with my IBM 3420 tape unit that I bought on eBay "by accident" (and was forced to get it shipped interstate between Xmas and New Year). Let me know if you can't find one, I may be able to lend you mine.
Thanks! I know about it, and Carl has lend me his, so I am good for now. But wait. You bought an IBM 3420 *by accident*? Like it was just under 1000lbs so you did not pay any attention? Now I want to know how that happened!
@@CuriousMarc Glad you have the tester! I would be very interested to know how it goes.
With my 3420, it appeared on Oz eBay listed as just 'Old Computer' would you believe. I put the initial bid on for a bit of fun and at a very low amount expecting to be outbid, and so I could track it easily. Later I had second thoughts as I didn't really want to have to ship it and got a bit worried I would win as the seconds ticked down. I groaned when sure enough I did. Then came the hassle of getting it. A furniture removalist was doing an interstate backload between Xmas/New Year (I was incredibly lucky to find that offer at a good price). I told them it was 'the size of a fridge, perhaps a bit heavier'... LOL. The two delivery guys dropped it off at my mum's place, they really struggled with it a lot getting it into her garage so she offered them a beer (Xmas here in Oz summer is hot). When it came to moving it to my place a few years later the box truck hydraulic tailgate lift almost didn't lift it.
I don't have 3-phase power so it'll be the 12th of never before I power it up, I suppose. But it sure looks cool. Would a single to 3-phase converter unit work?
@@1944GPW That’s what I intend to do, power them with a 3 phase converter. We’re not quite even sure why it would need 3 phase beyond the vacuum motor: the reel motors are DC.
@@CuriousMarc Fantastic! I will be sure to follow that adventure very closely and with a great degree of self-interest (As if I don't already follow you guys restoration adventures like it is! ;)
"The Paaaainn, the sufferrring" haha
OS/2 as they meant it to run. Eternal love. Thanks!
When IBM came out with the PS/2 line they made sure *everything* was proprietary. They were otherwise pretty nice (albeit overpriced) machines for their time.
'Guess what, it died on us.' YES! Now we get some test equipment action!
omg the nixie clock is awesome .... show us more
I still have a 286/VGA based IBM PS/1 in the attic. Should be in perfect working condition. Those interesting machines could boot into a simple graphical user interface (running under IBM DOS 4.0) straight out of the ROM. They had 1.44 MB FDD and 512 kB RAM and grayscale monitor as the base configuration, plus a 20 MB HDD, color monitor and 512 kB more RAM as an add-on option. They came with Microsoft Works, and some great IBM software that would teach you to use the keyboard. They had some extra proprietary cable to the monitor and PC speaker sound would come from the monitor instead from the PC. They were very compact machines (but had no option to add ISA add-on cards!)
Awaiting the "Part 2" - Is there anything we can help with to get the Model 77 working?
It would be handy to know if the front LED's light up. I suspect not and a new PSU is needed. I installed setup and maintained most of the PS/2 range at some point and they were bulletproof.
@CuriousMarc Hello, I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 and It has a floppy drive problem, and I accidentally wiped the hard drive while trying out NORTON MALWARE removal Deluxe Edition floppy disks I bought.
I love the PS2 machines looks, I love their build quality but the one's that have MCA ... man its hard to justify (the few models with ISA are usually the really old or low budget models) worked on a pile of these, its either the psu or the tantalum cap's on the motherboard (let it run long enough after failure and it might show itself!)
Tantalums Throw Tantrums To Terrify Timid Technicians
My bets are PSU with both failed capacitors, and dry joints on the power transistors, along with dry joints on the transformer. Likely you will also find the higher value resistors are either drifted higher, or totally open circuit as well, so the PSU will not start up. Other failures are diodes that go short circuit, stopping the power supply from starting up into the near short.
I remember the lesser version of these when I was in Public School. With some of them, it took 45 minutes to an hour (A entire class period) to get into Windows
My Model 80 had a 5250 microchannel emulator card so I could connect to the twinax cabled terminal lines of the university system 3x machines.
I had one of these. It had an intel overdrive cpu. I miss that antiquity. Mine was using an scsi 640MB drive. Without the Setup disk you could make no upgrades to it. Not even add a CD-rom drive.
3:37 when your monitor is FASTER than your PC!
ROFLMAO
I used to be a master of the system partition of PS/2’s while working at IBM in the late 90s! I seldom recall anything now but there is a way to access the system partition from the hard disk and I think that is what the system is trying to tell you to do right at the end of the video in order to back it up because there are system options are loaded in the hard drive and NOT in the boot disk you are using, and if you loose those system options then the system will NOT boot.
Wow I remember repairing those IBM selectric and then moving onto PC I loved os2 warp over windows as much better.
Electronics youtuber's intention: "I'm going to make a video on a particular subject"
Electronics youtuber's conclusion: "This is now a repair video"
OMG the memories. Installing OS/2 Warp from 20+ 1.44MB disks.
I had a couple of PS/2 machines, for a while... Horrible hateful things...
I remember all the fun with the reference diskette... Fun Times!
I keep looking around the background in Marc's shop. I think there are easter eggs there but I don't know what 1/2 of the stuff is...
I remember when OS/2 Warp first launched. It felt like they took OS/2 2.1, removed all the documentation from the box, added a little bit of extra polish, and did a big marketing campaign behind it.
Back in those days, I hated Win 3.1 so much that I ran OS/2 as my primary OS. I also feel like it would have been a bit more successful of IBM actually dared to make it a "default" option on their machines, rather than an "alternative" choice no one knew about.
8:30 Pause/Break - the keycap missing :P
Some old kit that I can relate to. I cut my teeth on a DX2/66. The old SCSI drive sound reminded me of the Conner hard drives, man they were loud.
We had a few of the DEC branded ones
IBM made a version of AIX for the PS/2. I wonder if it supports the channel adapter?
And all of their proper AIX machines (RS/6000) also used MCA peripherals, so I wonder if any of those could also drive this hardware. Then again, I'm not sure I ever heard of anything actually being compatible between the two product lines (despite the same connector).
you do ham radio ?? I remember the first time I touched a computer was a apple iie trying to draw with a turtle with a program on a cassette tape, then a sinclair zx81 copying code from a book and lose all of it when you shut it off, then my dad got a IBM PCjr, 8088, 16k of ram, 16 color monitor, 360k disquette drive and I must say it is the first time I stated to program on my own with DOS and running basic. We then got a slew of computer as they got more powerfull, 286, 386, 486, Pentium, Pentium II which is still have to this day with a soundblaster 16 and a nVidia V3400TNT video card, PIII and VI up to newer generations... it's crazy to see how it did evolve in 38 years !
Magic happens at 11:59 watch the keyboard
It is clearly alive. That is voodoo. The machine must be cleansed with fire 🔥😂😂👍
Love me some IBM!
Seeing Marc struggle with Windows 3.1 like that is hilarious. I used to have a page on it and hang out in the PS/2 newsgroup something like almost 2 decades ago, and there still is a Model P70 stashed away in my parents' basement (not sure if it still works at all, the floppy drive had called it quits as most of them do, bloody SMD electrolytics). But yeah, there was a reason why we would rather be using Calmira than trusty Program Manager back in the day.
The first boot we saw in the first video we did not hear a beep when booting normally. For most motherboards there's a speaker connected to it to sound error beeps from the BIOS reporting. Not for this machine ?
It beeps after POST at 4:52.
@@CuriousMarc OK, I hear, indeed, I was referring to 03:35.
The fact that it worked at first (and that the BIOS gets stuck) makes me think of (electrolytic) capacitors, on the motherboard or in the PSU. The PSU can measure OK, but is it needs testing for stability under load. I would have tried another as first, but I cannot tell from here if it is a special piece. You could check with a scope for cleanness of all the voltages.
Unfortunately I don't think I have any mca parts laying around at this point. Or at least if I do, it's somewhere I don't know. On the other hand I have a few EISA cards from a similar vintage of high end Compaq that I haven't brought myself to strip components from, let me know if anyone needs them!
Oh man hated the whole "setup program or drivers on hidden partition" thing back in the day. Was really a pain when drives died.
I have to disagree with you on that one... This is the BEST version of Windows Microsoft ever made.
Windows 3.1 had no security. And those 2.88MB disks are not reliable.
My 486 still runs it's original 1993 install of Windows 3.1.. There is a video of me booting it up on my channel in fact. My only gripe with it really is the lack of a mouse scroll wheel.. hard to believe how strange it feels these days not having that function
@@PaulaXism I don't think Mac has a scroll wheel, so I don't know how they get anything done. Can you do any engineering stuff on a Mac with only 2 buttons?
@@SidneyCritic You rather used cursor up/down for scrolling and clicking the scroll track for paging along (or, if you had an Extended Keyboard™, page up/down keys). Early scroll wheels felt rather cluncky in comparison.
And, of course, your Mac mouse had just a single button! :-)
Funny watching you trying to think down to Windows 3.1 level! A while back I was trying to get a PC to boot DOS 3.3 and was dammed if I could work out why it wouldn't read the hard disk. Then I remembered the maximum partition size on Dos 3 is 32 Megabytes, not 32 Gigabytes...
Is that a icom 7300 in the bottom right corner at 10:52. I’m familiar with these but I’m truly stuck in the past with my Heathkits, hallicrafters and national.
M7BLJ
It is an ICOM 7300. Good eye! And I highly recommend it.
You're braver than I thought.
From the computer alone it could have been a LGR video. Though he doesn't dabble in old mainframes.
I think the long bios boot wait time might be because you have sooooo much RAM. I remember having a dell dimension 486sx in 1994 and the memory test always took ages even with 8Mb!!🤣
My first PC was a PS/2 Model 50Z
I spy an IC-7300! Didn't know you were a ham.
The full POST + memory check takes so long on some PS/2 models hah!
Hi Marc, sorry for the stupid question but the old man with you on many of yours videos, is he your father ?
Hey! I'm nostalgic for 3.1! It was my first OS! PIF editor 4 lyfe!
Nice ICOM. Who's the ham?
Marc, I have an IBM s/370 Channel Emul A adapter card if you would be interested in it. IBM FRU 06f3160. I bought it at goodwill years ago and have had it since. I'd love to see it go to someone that can use it.
Sure I’ll take it! Contact me via my about page: ruclips.net/user/curiousmarcabout
I have a couple PS/2 in storage, they are a real pain in the backside to get running, but I kept the keyboards active... (currently typing on one hehe).
[and OS/2 is a wonderful system, but possibly the most difficult to run on a virtual machine]
The hidden partition remind me of a story. My dad once told me about an anti-piracy hack that was on old disks (probably floppy disks) where there was a physically corrupt sector of the disk. The program would write and then read that sector, and if it wrote correctly it knew that it was a copied disk. (because the real disk would return corrupt random data.)
He said his friends and him spent hours going line-by-line through hex editors comparing the two copies and couldn't figured it out.
Eventually someone designed a device that plugged in between the computer and drive and would defeat the anti-piracy thing somehow. Wish I knew more specifics.
The only other thing I know is that he was backing up software that he legally owned and not copying or distributing it.
I'd start with unplugging the hard drive. I've seen where a crashed hard drive will hold the machine in reset. I remember the old days of PCs. Can't say as I miss them.
Takes me back to when the PS/2 came out and we decided to make an MCA networking adaptor, because at the time we were doing ISA network adaptors so obviously the PS/2 was the way forward, right?
By the time we had a working product, several things had become clear. First, MCA and OS/2 were IBM's revenge on the world for the massive lack of respect that clones represented. We were going to suffer, and we were going to suffer hugely, for the sin of pride, and IBM had decided to make life as painful as possible for anyone who wanted to play. Second, nobody wanted to play. IBM's hubris had salted the fields and burned the village. Walking away from being an MCA developer was the easiest decision ever.
Indeed - MCA was a total flop. You simply couldn’t get anything for it apart from a few very expensive ibm cards.
@@eliotmansfield - Ehh, it's not that bad, just different.
@@eliotmansfield the licensing costs of MCA killed it.
@@IBM_Museum It was only different because IBM wanted to continue to gouge their customers with their own proprietary standards that you could licence at huge cost - the market said get stuffed. So yes it was a flop
BREAK key was on the same key as PRINT SCREEN if I remember correctly.
Nope, it's a dedicated PAUSE/BREAK key, or Ctrl+ScrLock may also work. Nothing to do with PRINT SCREEN
But I can tell why he couldn't find it: his PAUSE/BREAK key has a blank key cap!
At 6:11 the guy looks like Jason Alexander, but I don’t think he is. Great video, thank you Marc!
That is the cast of M*A*S*H. The guy in the middle is Gary Burghoff who played Radar O'Reilly on the show.
I bet it just have a bad contact in some RAM or peripheral connector.
Ironically the CPM copy etc PIP there makes the 3.11 file copy seem, tedius
The left down radio is a Ham Radio Icom IC7300 ???
Good eye, it is! We use it to receive the Apollo transponder in one of the Apollo comms episodes also.
Oooo. Model 77. Now who is wearing the fancy pants?
Have you tried PCem? It emulates a PS2 Model 70 so you can test images of the reference disks to get the hang of messing around with the configs.
Thanks for the tip!
Where is the 9825?
I cut my teeth on a PS2….I still have boxes of original floppies in my office..I must see what I have !
What operating system do you recommend?
I half expected ibm to ring your doorbell for running it without the license
Maybe we just saw an IBM revenge happening for such a crime. BIOS rewritten with NOP codes all over 😱
i wish i have a mainframe at my garage to connect to..
You have a R-354 Shmel!! Can you please make a video about the spy radio set?? Greets PA1BJS
We have not started work on it yet but it’s in the queue!
@@CuriousMarc thats nice!! i did some work on a SEG 15, german DDR spy set. I can really recommend one of them. Really interesting construction and really crisp reception.
Stop hitting buttons lol! My first PC was an IBM PS/2 386 sx16, with MCA architecture ZERO problems booting MS-Dos off of floppy. Also paid like $400 dollars for a 4MB memory stick.
Thanks!!
And people wondered why I was such a fan of the Amiga!!! Good grief..I remember working on these things, and assorted clones of course. I also recall briefly playing with OS2Warp and it persuading me that Windows 3 was actually better....... Kids today have no idea how lucky they are :)
with windows 10 and macos? lucky, you say? XD
I see that Icom Transceiver hiding in the corner...what's up with that?!
the times when many companies were able to produce hi-end cpus on their own...
not everything is worse today… every installation you did back then was a pain in the ass and took forever.. I don‘t miss the machine crashing on disk 48 out of 50
How ya gonna do it? You're gonna PS/2 it!
What a nice cat clock 3:16. :)
I'm chuckling because I know you can troubleshoot an entire alto computer inside and and out; the break key is in the top row next to the indicators. Welcome to the graphical MS-DOS executive, err, I mean "File Manager" it's a brave new world. 🙂
Notice that the Pause/Break key cap is missing
Oh I didn't see that.. No wonder why.
Ah yes IBM locking you into their OS2. I use to have to use them to program their mainframes using Visual Age Generator and of course had a second pc on my desk to run Windows.