A lot of clueless people in this thread. Africa does not care about your first world problems...the people of Africa are trying to survive. If a lion has no economic value by bringing in tourism/sport hunting then it has little value to the people of Africa and will be shot or trapped for food. Sport hunting funds conservation, funds anti-poaching efforts, compensates farmers for livestock loss. Controlled hunting works everywhere in the world it is implemented and results in a stronger animal population. Hunters are the true environmentalists and put aside more private land for animals and fund more conservation efforts than all of the conservation groups combined.
ChicagoTRS Most hunters don't care about conservation. Their primary motivation is massaging their vanity and egos with a kill. I agree, by allowing commercial hunting it helps to manage lion numbers, but it doesn't take away that trophy hunters are sick people
rob jones ...Most hunters deeply care about conservation. Most hunters hunt for necessity, to fill their freezer, and recreation. If you want to change your quote to "most trophy hunters" then I might agree.
ChicagoTRS I think your comment " Sport hunting funds conservation, funds anti-poaching efforts, compensates farmers for livestock loss" is debatable. A study needs to be commissioned to see what the effect of trophy hunting has on threatened or endangered species.
rob jones You're wrong about that. Arguably, hunters have the most to gain by protecting wildlife that they wish to pursue. A great number of conservation clubs were started and are supported by hunters.
you are a frigging jerkoff. We need a worldwide law where humans can be hunted. You are on the top of the list. Your comment is bullshit no kind of hunting protects a damn thing but your peoples lame excuse to keep hunting doing. Its proven, these so called hunting outfits always claim their main objective supports "conservation" , h-o-r-s-e-s-h-i-t. Every wrong act has a made up excuse of why it benefits it and that's because some people don't have sense enough to believe the opposite. But you have others that tell the truth on what your political conservation organizations actually do, promote violence to animals o you eco pathogens can get your rocks off. The studies are in, hunting poses no benefit what so ever to a species. Go look them up. See for yourself. But you kind are a breed among yourselves, separated from the rest of the population, you need to be removed from this planet to a planet that can't sustain life. problem solved
"how ban on lion hunting killed lions" meanwhile in video "how permits were granted to farmers to go & shoot them" The hypocrisy of this lad is over the roof .
About as over the roof as the lack of common sense in your comment. Farmers did not go and hunt the lions. They shot them to protect their livelihood, it was out of necessity not recreation. These are DCA situations.
Everything he said went completely over your head. Let me try to explain it to you: The farmers allowed lions to exist on their land because they got paid a portion of the hunter’s fees; that money they gained was MORE than the money they were losing from Lions eating their livestock. AFTER the ban on commercial hunting, farmers now had no incentive to allow lions to exist on their land as they were a risk to their livestock. Since they now had no money to compensate them for their livestock loss they were allowed to kill them. They killed 10 times the number of lions than were killed by commercial hunters before the ban. Now do you understand?
The fundamental issue is that humans through the use of human thinking have convinced themselves that the human species is more valuable than all the other species on the planet. The issue is not one group vs another. The issue is all of humanity and the divisive nature of human thinking. It shows up in all aspects of human experience.
@@shrimpkins Note: you're replying to a comment from 4 years ago. How lions think, if they think, what they think, is entirely in the realm of speculation. The fact that they are called "lions" is simply a word label invented by humans for the purposes of communication. At the end of the day humans do not dominate the world, bacteria do!
@@ferdinandalexander8053 I was just kidding around. But you're right, bacteria are the real overlords. And maybe trees, since they can order clouds to dispense water the way a platoon radioman can order an air strike...
Exactly. They just want to hunt them. They try and pull on the public’s heartstrings by making it seem they are doing something noble and are helping preserve life. But they aren’t, they just want to shoot things
You guys that say you dissagree ARE idiots. The guy is simply laying out facts and saying: here is a bad idea and here is a worse idea. Just because it makes you feel better doesn't mean it is the best idea. I also don't like trophy hunting of lions but I can't argue with what he says. And you guys who ate against hunting but eat meat. Stop beeing such hypocrites.
Axel Andersson Being against the hunting of a near extinct or endangered animal but eating meat from an animal that is not is hypocritical? I'm just trying to understand the stance
Yannick S Lions aren't near extinct. They are threatened and their numbers rise in certain areas. If you are so smart then talk to people whos family was attacked by a lion.
Regarding Ghanzi, there are ways for farmers to avoid lions, like watching their cattle (day time) and enclosing them in kraals at night. I live in Botswana and farmers just don't watch their cattle like other farmers in other countries do, they just let them roam around. According to Leopard Ecology & Conservation, over 95% of lion kills occur outside the kraals at night. Perhaps educating farmers and building effective kraals is the solution. To me the hunting ban is not the real problem here.
kalaharithorn You should have more likes since I personally have no idea how so condescending and not all that informed people are let to speak on some Ted talks. I instantly disliked the guy once he started addressing a major real life problem that should concern any human by referencing The Lion King. Like that's the reason grown men and women don't want animals that generally don't bother people to be hunted down for sport! I'm a person that empathise with every kill any of the lions shown on wildlife channels, but I understand that they're carnivorous and that is what they eat and that is their method of hunting. I'm not gonna get my shotgun to go kill a lion to, what, offer that zebra a few more days or weeks until she's gonna be eventually killed by another lion I haven't shot...yet? Also let's not pretend that trophy hunting is done for any other reason than to inflame the minuscule dicks and uptight pussies of the men and women who hunt these animals.
@@LB-uo7xy Id vote for helping those animals for free instead of hunting them All the hunters are sick people imo if you go search a word hunting the results are unbearable and its not just a sport now people creating content and entertaining sick people with videos like 50 headshot kills etc its siiiiick
Exactly. This a problem we have in the UK with sheep farmers. Many farmers just let their lambs be born in the field, with no shelter or protection from predators like corvids or foxes, who usually tend to go for lambs and sheep who are in labour. One easy solution to this is lambing indoors, which has been shown to be the most effective way of protecting lambs from predation. Then when they are all born, let them out of the barn into the pasture so they at least have a chance to evade predators
White tail deer in America were almost hunted to extinction in most of America. Conservation programs, not hunting bans, brought them back from the brink. A system of permits and tag limits allowed the deer to recover to the point of overpopulation decades later. Using similar solutions in South Africa have done the same for the lion population in that country. Here's a clue. Hunters will spend a lot of money and accept limited hunting in order to preserve the species they're hunting. Another point not discussed in this video. Every time a large game animal get listed on the endangered list, you made that animal more desirable, thus, more valuable. This draws poachers like flies to honey.
Mostly true but whitetails have never been near extinction across N America. Perhaps in some areas, but not across the continent. Their numbers have grown immensely do to reduction of predators, abundance of food (farms/ranches), and sustainable hunting regulations. Same with the wild turkey.
hashdfw What I posted is 100% true. Had there been Departments of Conservation back during the depression, the white tail deer would have been listed as critically endangered. There were only an estimated 500,000 left in the entire country. Now the white tailed deer herds have rebounded to an estimated population of over 20 million. Almost all paid for through the efforts of state conservation programs and the money hunters pay for hunting licenses.
Nice presentation. But this could be true for this particular case of hunting in the Kalahari and Ghanzi areas. But overall, lion hunting is a shame, and in South Africa lions are sedated and even kept in enclosures while trackers "search" for the lions with the hunters on a shameful & false hunting expedition. There are very few thousand wild lions left in the world; hunting them cannot be a solution. However, Mikkel is being very objective & cautious and I agree with most of what he said.
I am sorry to say but lots of people that posted here really did not listen and are not prepared to be educated. It blows my mind about the untruths that some write as truths, like the cattle meat are fed to dogs and cats, maybe the offal, but not the meat, Electric fences kills more of the small animals than what you want to believe. We need a holistic approach. Any renewable resource must be utilised, BUT it must be done in a sustainable way. South Africa is a very good example of conservation. There are at least 10 times the amount of wildlife than there were in the 60's and hunting for the pot and for trophies played a big part in this. The animals got a value and therefore the farmers started protecting their wildlife and thereby started protecting the eco system . Conservation starts with soil, then plants and then animals. How many animals are senseless being killed to produce vegetables for the vegetarians, yes you did not know it, but it is a fact, crop farmers will kill anything that have an influence on their harvest. How many people became vegetarians because they have an issue with the slaughtering of cattle, but little did they know that wildlife are killed to supply their demand for vegetables. Come on people we need a holistic approach and use our resources wisely, only then will we be able to save the planet from ourselves.
What about man overpopulating? Sportsmen are mostly GOP. Which is They are pro-profit, Pro-capitalist They believe in anthropocentrism and human supremacist. EGO vs ECO. Sportsmen goes to EGO. Anti-environment and pro-driller.
Casey Zillman They never help where they cannot hunt. They only "conserve" a land so they can manipulate wildlife. Killing all predators and overpopulating deer unnaturally so they kill them. These inbred hicks kill all wolves and demonize them. They portray them as the bad guys. I watch these inbred hicks and they're soo full of hatred. Many of them are racist, homophobic, xenophobic , hypocritical and does stuff they hate but blames on non hunters doing stuff the hicks hate.
ABC news is non bias, non left nor right. hunting industries exploit children and use them as sex slave in foreign countries with corruption and political turmoils. abcnews.go.com/WN/sex-tourism/story?id=10288468
rob jones I am going to make a wag here and assume that you have never been somewhere where wild animals have over populated the area and have dead animals rotting in the streams and lakes poisoning the water that everyone uses and spreading disease thru the rest of the herds have you?
ken swan I have actually yes. Quite a few places. Ive also sen lots of places where humans have polluted water supplies too. So by your logic, should we kill humans too? Wild animals don't stand a chance as long as people keep exploiting, killing and encroaching on wild lands. This isn't going to happen so unfortunately animals are going to suffer. I guess you could say, it's us or them, in a bitter fight for survival, but everyone loses in the long run.
ken swan Are you saying that lions have over populated parts of Africa? I think not. We all know that the real culprits of this sad situation are humans.
rob jones do you donate money or contribute to maintaining wild lands? i know we hunters do, we keep the habitat free from human "development". I just wish hunters and non hunters could work together instead of fighting and accomplish nothing..
I feel they should concentrate on all the rich American money to a "capture and relocation" program. There ARE successful programs out there that reintegrate endangered species into the wild. How is killing them legally any morally different than killing them by angry villagers?
If you want to save a species, simply decide to eat [or hunt] it. Then it will be managed - like chickens, like turkeys, like deer, like Canadian geese. - Ted Nugent
x2 Jeff In the US when we harvest an animal, be it through hunting or a raised animal at a butcher, there's a gutpile that is either left for scavengers or used for fertilizer. When I was in Africa the natives took the guts back for food. Nothing is wasted.
Except a LIFE.. You think these animals were put here to shoot at,,? they are put for here as a part of the ecosystem..Just as you commen, they are expected to die off in the year 2020...Like I asked " What is your part? Animals are living non human sentient with a nervous system scientifically capable of feeling pain and experiencing other emotions including other emotions including suffering and anguish ..Scientifically written
How about taking lion hunting out of the equation completely and then look for a solution to the problem. Only the hunters' money can pay for compensation? There is so much money donated by people who hate trophy hunting. Where is all that money going?
relatives of mine worked in these game farm, both eco tourists and hunters went there. Ultimatly it's all down to the bottom line, money. Hunters have more, hunters pay more. If you can find a way to get more money from eco tourisim great, the game farms will be the first in line but until then... I'll give you an example, I went on a 5 day road trip around South Africa, took my parents, the three of us, taking pictures of animals, animal encounters, etc spent about 1000 to 1500 dollars US for the 3 of us. As he said a hunt goes for several hundred thousand and that's just 1 man for roughly the same period of time. Does eco tourism bring in money? Yes but several orders of magnitude less than hunting
lol at the hunters who think he is saying hunting is the solution. He even says it's the lesser of two evils at this current time. If nobody killed animals the populations would obviously thrive. But that's not possible so what he is saying is that we all need to work together, both sides.
Stephen Carmickle... I've heard many a hunter claim that predators need to be controlled. Even threatened or endangered species like lions, which are now extinct in 26 countries in Africa. Leave the animals to themselves and nature will manage their numbers like she has for millions of years.
+Derek Branum So agreed, why can't people see this, because they are idiots, greedy. If the people would stop taking their habitat away there wouldn't be a problem between lions and people. People are the worst thing ever created. I bet if there is a God, He's been thinking the same thing and kicking hisself. I don't blame lions, living things don't take kindly when what's there's gets taken from another. This is where a problem erupting into war happens, damn stupid humans
TINA GAFFNEY I agree, we are the worst living things on Earth, constantly destroying the things that allow us to live. What makes it worse is that we could so very easily be the absolute best living things, by far.
I agree.. as the only species able to effect change it is our sacred duty to make this planet a kinder better plsce.,not to emulate raw unevoled nature.
People with good intentions have exacerbated the situation between Lions and cattle farmers. The farmers are now aggravated and embittered, their feelings are irritated by the loss of cattle, their livelihood without compensation. All by the people w/ good intentions, however, uneducated to the real problems $$ Money that once payed these farmers for their cattle loses. It disgusts me to see these remarkable animals killed for sport, however, it disgusts me much more to see them killed because they ate a cow. Stop the hunting ban and we save the Lions.
A very well presented view and as a hunting person I agree 100% that emotion and a lack of knowledge have been allowed to rule over common sense in many areas,we in the UK have a very similar situation with brown hares,hunting with hounds was banned but they can still be shot and it won't be long before the onmce abundant hare will be red listed or wiped out as now instead of they being a sporting animal they're classed as a pest so it's yet another example of emotions over ruling common sense but will the haters be bothered,ofcourse they won't,they'll just pass the blame for their own stupidity onto others.It's what they do.
youre not a hunter youre a killer. you should hunt with a spear and face a lion one on one.. thats a real hunter, not hide safely from afar and shoot with a gun like a coward. Maybe you should experience being "hunted" and shot from afar too to see how it feels like.
I’m from the UK. Hares will never be a red listed species, they are green listed species. They also aren’t even native, so even if they were wiped out, it would have literally zero impact on our ecosystem. Studies show that hunting with hounds has very little impact on overall populations, those who do use hounds are just rich people who want to go out killing wildlife. Hound hunting has no place in conservation, it’s just a public menace and a nuisance for poor farmers and landowners to have to deal with. Seriously, go look at the videos of landowners having their livestock harassed or their pets dismembered by the hunt.
@@theotheseaeagle You came to the right person didn't you as i'm an ex huntsman of hare hounds i.e beagles and have been involved around hounds for atleast fourty years but funnily enough i'm a welder who grew up nowhere near any ''posh'' folks and you'll find a lot of people in hunting are shop workers,mechanics and the likes so it amazes me with your lack of actual knowledge.If you want a debate go and learn something first instead of merely spouting absolute rubbish!.Have you guessed yet,i'm English!.
@@letmeoffthisplanet6208 I’m not spouting rubbish, merely stating the truth from experience. Most if not all members of the hunt are usually posh and unbelievably entitled. They don’t care if they are trespassing on someone’s land or if they’ve killed someone’s animal, all they care about is ripping apart an animal. I’m also very glad the ban was brought in. I don’t mind people humanely hunting on their own land with guns (as long as they aren’t negatively impacting the local environment or people) just not a fan of people trespassing with a huge pack of noisy and potentially aggressive hounds (it’s not uncommon for some hounds especially foxhounds to lash out when they are excited due to the high prey drive). And like I said earlier, brown hares aren’t a native species, so there’s no point comparing an introduced herbivore, to a predator in its native environment. I also own a beagle
@@theotheseaeagle Your experience is very limited then as you are still spouting absolute rubbish,as i've stated if you want to continually claim that hunts are filled with posh privileged people then you know absolutely nothing about them and that is fact!.Another thing for you,did you know that an awful lot were set up by miners,are they posh to you as well as it appears you must have lived one very deprived life if you do...As for trespassing, an odd occasion it has been known and due to honest mistakes but if you want to bring trespass into it sab groups across the country trespass on land causing damage and assaults regularly but is it any surprise you fail to mention that. Go and educate yourself a little instead of being such a bitter twisted individual who's information comes via scam artists masquerading as antis.
I have a solution! Let the farmers do what they need to do to continue! Also, tag and monitor all the lions! Then move the lion surplus to areas that they have been eliminated from! After all, they have been eliminated from most of Africa! Also the many breeding and canned hunting programs going on in Africa and the world for hunters should be eliminated as well! Why will this not work? Because the Human factor is cheap, irresponsible, and LAZY! That is the only reason!
It requires a ludicrous amount of funding that we in Africa don't have. Furthermore, relocating a territorial wild animal is not very successful as it will trek 1000's of kilometres to go back to where it came from. Especially if there is easy prey in the form of cattle present.
Too many cows and too many people encroaching on wild terrain.Educate girl so they have fewer children. Support ecotourism; go see lions before ether are gone.
Mr. Legarth, is your project (and the lions featured on your website and fb page) in Botswana linked to Christian De Graaff in Botswana who exports lions to neighboring South Africa (for the lion breeding industry, and ultimately the canned hunting industry, according to a recent article about De Graaff)? TEDxTalks, please consult Dereck and Beverly Joubert (they did a TED talk a while back) about lion conservation and ask their opinion about this talk.
This is the truth about conservation and The Modisa Project is a perfect example of the future of the conservation of rogue predators that are needed in the Eco-system, yet are seen as a problem to human life in the area.
earth is for everyone not just humanity. we spread like a virus destroying everything in our paths. Infact we destroyed 50%of forests and 60%of animals since 1970.
I'm going to address a couple of issues that always come up in these threads. To quote one study that found "only" 3% of the trophy fee goes directly to conservation is a bit misleading. And to say that ecotourism brings in enough to conserve all the wildlife in Africa is similarly misleading. Much of the land that is dedicated to managed trophy hunting would no longer be what amounts to private nature reserves if trophy hunting were banned. If land owners are able to bring in huge sums of money so that a few rich hunters can come in once and a while to kill an animal, you better believe that there is motivation to keep that land wild. And having enough land to support animals that are hunted for trophies necessarily entails having enough land for all the other smaller species too - from insects to mesocarnivores, native flora as well. Note that canned hunting is a completely separate issue and is not what I refer to here. So getting caught up on what percentage of the trophy fee goes "directly" to conservation is a bit misguided. How many private land tracts would be turned into monoculture farms or cattle ranches if all commercial hunting were banned? Furthermore, not all countries in Africa are politically stable or "tourist-friendly." Unless an area has an endemic species that can be seen nowhere else, which is NOT the case with lions, Americans are going to want to go to the safer, touristy areas. Those less-stable countries still attract trophy hunters, and still bring in money for both indirect and direct forms of conservation.
What I never see anywhere in human society is personal responsibility. There are solutions to every problem yet people are lazy, and it's easier to blame someone or somthing else. This is all walks of life farmers,ranchers,hunters, corporations, consumers etc. etc.
This video is bullshit. A much simpler solution would be to relocate or kill those farmers who shoot the endangered lions. 20 000 lions vs 7 000 000 000 people; do the math. Those lions are much more valuable if you ask from the majority of the people.
Hydrogen Trip Okay, why don't you go relocate them. While your at it, you can explain to the government of Botswana why they will henceforth not only lose all the revenue the get from taxes on the farmers' incomes, but they will have to pay out money to fund patrols needed to drive out and keep out human settlers who'd try to move into the area, as well as poachers who will still hunt they animals illegally.
Darren O'Connor I m sorry but that s just nonsense, where would you relocate that many lions ? botsuana is already one of the lesst dense populated countries in the world wich is the reason why so much wildlife survived there in the first place... first research than post pls Even if you don t like hunting, it is a very good way to protect lions. An average lion hunt costs about 30.000 dollars that s more than enough to turn cattlefarmers t private game reserve owners, the value of his wildlife creates incentives to increase the numbers
Andreas Haase I'm going to guess from your name that English is probably not your fist language (Dutch maybe?). Apparently sarcasm doesn't come through the language barrier.
Actually I m south african from german heritage and consider myself being quite fluent in english... it must be the heritage that makes me not understand your sarcasm. Germans can t be funny, never... :-P
Kenya elephant's population 160k then 1975 , Hunting became elegal NOW..... 2010, 20k elephants remain......................................... Zimbabwe 1975 20k elephant's population....... hunting has always been legal today 2010 stats 100k is the elephant population CASE CLOSED
Just a note, it's spelled illegal. I don't want readers to think you meant legal, as the fact you are illustrating is that elephants flourished in Kenya when regulated hunting was allowed, but now that it is banned, elephant numbers are in great decline.
As the human population grows and our demand for more agricultural land increases there will be more and more clashes with the wild animals that live there. Hunting not only provides valuable tourist money for parts of Africa, it also balances populations in areas where humans and wildlife come into contact. As Mikkel stated, stop thinking with only emotions when it comes to wild animals. The facts are that during clashes with humans and wild animals, the animals lose every-time, they can be killed by a farmer or a hunter... The lion certainly doesn't care. Everyone should agree that the money paid by a tourist is better then no money at all. When you remove emotion from the equation the facts have been there the whole time.
***** A farmer has a right and a duty to protect his or her livestock. That is as true in Americas as it is in Africa. In North America animals such as wolves, coyote, bears and cougars threaten livestock. In Africa you have lions. I wouldn't shoot a lion or coyote for sport but if I had either loitering around my home where I have children or my pet dogs, I'd be sure to protect my property.
Hi, this is TED, where everyone presents their talk in nearly the same fashion until it gets to the point where you wonder if they all went to the same school or if TED is teaching them in the first place. It's weird.
"I do not believe that anyone who was out there getting petitions signed knew what the consequences would be" That is because you can't listen while shouting at someone else. A lot of smart people have been saying just that for a very long time. I am a hunter. I shoot for four reasons: To eat what I shoot, and know where my food comes from, to protect my economical interests in way of forest and fields, to manage the population so as to prevent disease typical from overpopulation and because part of my land is a nature reserve for endangered ground breeding birds, so that I am required by law to shoot all (house) cats and foxes in that part. I would never pay to go to Africa to shoot something, but I know people who would. I don't understand this, but I am pragmatic enough to know that putting a high value on killing an animal protects it, because they won't be seen as a worthless nuisance. The problem with ideology is that it is usually in the way of pragmatic solutions, as was very well explained here.
+mamakind99 Eating what you shoot is one thing, when it's not a threatened or endangered species, but hunting for pleasure and ego or even worse, for the kinds of quotas and contests that the very ugly Safari Club International puts forth, is dispicable. My guess is you are not flying to Africa to bring home lion meat.
What about these lion farms also? How is that helping these lions? All that is doing is creating a bigger demand for lion bones which in turn is causing more poaching ect and a terrible existence for these lions, give you head a shake people...see what us really happening!
+restlessgypsy Lion farms are considered a separate issue, most conservation organizations and hunting lobby's are against them, because no profit is passed onto conservation or local people.
also I'd like to add that the lions in cages are not really wild. we have the same things here in America it's called free range farms. there are some caged farms in Africa that house animals which are already extinct in the wild therefore the species is still preserved domestically. it's not the prettiest thing but it still has some benefits. most are just in it for the $ though but there are good ones.
If you love lions so much donate to save them. Spend the money that hunters would have. But then lions will still die, by other lions, and it's a horrible death.
+firehuntfish well that's a good question, I don't know. I was just pointing out that there is no greater revenue for conservation than that of hunters. But if people want to off set that it's going to cost them.
@@nwey6151 false analogy my guy. Animals have sentience, objective reality (in varying degrees), and a central nervous system that allows them to feel pleasure and pain. Plants don't have that. Saying that animal agriculture and plant agriculture is the same, is the equivalent of saying that harvesting human organs and mining metal is the same thing. One causes clear harm, pain, and potentially leads to loss of life, while the other is just a resourse. Of course, now you'll start googling and looking up "plants can feel pain" and will respond with some buzz feed article from 8 years ago that says that plants might feel pain, but I dont expect anything more from you.
@@romatab.441 the anology is completely right. elephants for example destroy a lot of agriculture and the only reason why locals and farmers dont kill them all its because of what they earn from legal hunting. Im on the field and i know this reality im not sitting on a computer watching lion king. mannaging wild life isnt the same as mannaging 2 cats and 1 dog in a appartement.
Some profound thought, but ...: Did I miss something in the logical flow. 1) Logical flow missed: a-Assumption: The Botswana farm can't continue without the lion revenues. b-the lions in Botswana are now all but gone. c. Then by definition, the farmers must have all failed and are now gone too! Right? Oh, they aren't? Therefore the premise must be flawed. Translation: it was always justification for the extra revenue for the farmers through trophy hunts. But never was really necessary for the farmers survival. Truth #1: The trophy hunts were an excuse for revenue, but not necessary for farm survival. 2) Logical flow missed #2: a-Botswana residents reclassified the animals as "problem animals" ... only after the hunts were shut down and revenues lost. b-If they weren't problem animals before, then they aren't after. c-The only thing that changed is humans and our rationalization. Truth #2: Humans are the "problem animals." Humans can't simply not kill, ... because its the right thing to do. If we are not compensated, then we will find ways to justify our killing. ... and carry it out. 3) Logical flow miss #3: The trophy hunters show us all the stats on how they are the "great saviors" of animals because of what is paid for by the economics of hunts. If they are really great saviors, then why not simply cut the check. What's with the need for blood-lust and killing. There is some demented thinking in there somewhere. 4) Logical flow miss #4: Long term, what happens when the remaining trophy hunters come into this century and catch up with the rest of the modern world's thinking? What happens when carcasses hanging on walls, toasting over scotch and showing off to friends no longer contributes to self worth of guys with little dicks? This is when we realize that the real problem wasn't solved, ... it was never even addressed. The real problem revolves around the greater self restraint of the human race as we continue with our "conquest" and spawl toward every corner of the planet. Trophy hunting is a lesser problem than the one we haven't even begun to discuss.
1) He didn't say the farms would fail without the extra revenue, he said it gave them extra security and a fallback. 2)He said that the farmers were shooting the lions before commercial hunting so they were labeled as such. Commercial hunting just helped with reducing the number of lions killed yearly is the point he was going for. Although I agree without concrete statistics to observe personally, it's a weaker point. 3) The fact that people like to hunt and that some people have ridiculous amounts of money is unavoidable. It would be nice if people always just donated to good causes, but someone isn't going to drop that kinda of money for nothing. So the idea is one he mentioned of which is the lesser evil. Hundreds of thousands in the local economy and dead lions, or no the cost of a few bullets given to an ammo dealer and dead lions. 4) He specifically mentions that the problem isn't solved by allowing commercial hunting. It just might be the best available option for right now. He said that better options with better logical backing need to be found. We just have to look at it with more than just emotion. Stopping something bad without any evidence that it will improve the situation is just as bad as doing nothing. Worse so if the long term affect is worse than the initial. Your points aren't invalid, they just ignored what he said to address some of them and the fact that said he isn't a hunter and isn't pro commercial hunting. He just thinks a better overall solution is needed. Not just stopping because we don't like it.
I'm saying that you have to be sure that the solution proposed is an overall solution and not one that is only based on emotion. Just because something "bad" is stopped does not mean that everything is immediately better. In the video it is stated that the commercial lion hunting was stopped. Commercial lion hunting=bad=stopped. This, however did not suddenly lead to a rise in the lion population. Instead, the farmers continued shooting them like they did before and the lions basically all died off. An overall solution to the problem was not used. It could therefore be argued that the end result was worse than the previous state of affairs. Basically, I think what he pointed out as logical flaws to the arguments in the video weren't all necessarily that flawed. Has that made my point any clearer?
The biggest part of the produced meat on botswana´s cattle farms is not for the Europeans, it´s for the food for their dogs, cats and whatever. That makes it even worse!
It seems many of the commentators missed the point of someone making a profit from a resource will do more than a gvmt to protect that resource; a private person/business is invested with their own money, capital, labor - a gvmt has no incentive, other than publicly-perceived image, and even that is paid for not with the bureaucrat-politician's own money, but with money taken from the tax-payer in the first place ! Have a look at the African Rhino-story - changes in herd-populations since gvmt gave up their ineffective and devastating attempts at protecting them from becoming extinguished and privatized the herds !
The real fact is that the ban on lion hunting is not what killed the lions; what killed the lions is the fact that we have animal agriculture taking up so much space in places where wildlife should be prioritary. Humans can live and thrive on a plant based diet, we would free up to 75% of land used in animal agriculture and agriculture destined to feed them; we could free up this habitats that we have invaded, and then see how could we improve them using strategic contraception, not hunting. We just have to think, could we justify killing some humans so others could live? Although that's basically what we do now, we already know that's not the moral way to go; so why would it be with lions and other wildlife species that we kill to "protect"?
this is not a Ted Talk, this is a normalization of animal rights violation. Gov shouls approve the hunt of hunters, its better. And if you are a farmer and you have an issue, talk to the authorities and sedate, trap de animal, or just try to find the way to feed it. Meat is a multibillionare bussiness!
Good news on the Botswana conservation efforts and challenges but Legarth is heavily skewed and clearly uneducated himself on predator conservation. "I will never understand why someone will come to Africa, kill a lion, and bring it back home to put it up on a wall as a trophy" -Legarth "This is a choice between two evils" - Legarth "I am definately not a friend of the hunting business" - Legarth This good hearted presenter makes the assumption that all hunters that pay big bucks to travel and hunt are "trophy hunters" . You can hear it and see it, he knows deep down in his gut that proper conservation includes hunting but cant admit it. Because he hasnt quite experienced a rewarding hunt or read enough on predator ecology and the success stories like many states in the US having recovered to healthy populations of MOUNTAIN LION partly due to issuing the right number of lion tags and putting hunting funds to work (yes we have lions in North America). The charismatic megafauna have instead won his heart and he cant look beyond to a great idea of lions as a species and not an individual. I dont know, just some observations from someone who has hunted and who has another level of appreciation for the animals Ive eaten and the animals who live along side those animals. keep going
My family and I had the pleasure of spending a few days with Joseph recently and he is an incredibly passionate guide but more importantly, he's a remarkable person - full of life, laughs and wonderful stories! God bless Joseph and best wishes from Tom, Eva and the kids.
Theres no way to change everybodies mind, so there ya go! The human dilemma: we are chained to our future the human race is making, not vibrations in air.
Lazy? This man spends time in the field with these amazing animals. He dosnt know of a better solution. People and african governments dont have enough money respources to save these animals. For yhe mean time responvible huntjng can save these animals
so you're saving the very few adult male lions who don't hunt farmers cattle by killing them? farmers aren't the ones killing male lions at a rate of 1/5th the male population yearly. these farmers have lived for generations back when there was more lions. fact is the Lions numbers drastically fell when people started murdering them for self gratification. if people didn't hunt or support buying anything made from poaching then only a few lions who press boundaries will get killed not ones deep in their land...also can't really call it hunting or being a sportsman it literally takes no skill besides point n click for pay.
One should take a good look on these African nations who has a band all hunting...almost no free roaming animal left. All killed by poachers locally for food or organized by government people.
@Alexander Lanius An animal isn't better off being hunted by human instead of a Lion or wolf. Lion and wolf belong to them and they are all sons and daughters of nature. Humans are unworthy of hunting them and bring shame upon them.
So you enjoy killing animals for no particular reason, it make you a monster. Its all about greed and self satisfaction. trophy hunters follow the same attributes as pscyhopathic/sociopathic persons. And your picture shows you to be, you look like an SS officer. People like you should be locked away from society.
You have "proven" no "facts" the facts are only about 5% of the money actually goes to anyone but the outfitter. You can keep believing in your pseudo-conservationism .If you were a conservationist you'd pick up a gun and defend wildlife instead of killing it. We all know very well that the only thing you are conserving is your "right" to kill animal. Psychopath: superficial charm- check absensence of delusional thinking -check lack of remorse- check callus,lack of empathy-check failure to accept responcibility for ones actions-check, externalizing blame-check I could go for so many more signs that people like you are psychopathic. Not to mention the phot and video taking of you killing for gratification viewing later. You sir are a psychopath, in addition to being just plain evil ,people like you never believe you are evil or sick. The world is waking up to your illness, 10% of the population destroying most of the world animals.I have never once looked at an animal and said that's beatiful, "I want to kill it" only people like you think that way, which make you mentally ill weather you acknowledge it or not.
I served in the military and am in the process to going to africa to fight againts poachers, and I have never killed any animal.I see your "conservation" dollars aint doing shit to stop poaching, what I do see is fat cats paying to kill animals already in danger. You are not helping animals by killing them, your story and facts are bullshit. I know plenty well the type of man you are, infact you are one of those men that has to prove how tough you are by killing something that can't shoot back. Your conservation arguement hold as much weight as a glass of water with a hole in the bottom. And all the rhinos and elephants getting killed for stupidity, greed and ego is that tha "eonomic value" that if it did not exist they therefore would not be protected? bang up job guy I wish I was as cool as you making up bullshit in order to justify your killing. We all know the only "preservation" you care about is preserving your "right" to kill, you have no interest in animals beyond that, keep deluding yourself that you are a hero, a great guy and all the other shallow bullshit, in my book you aren't shit.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=f27_1392625552 So is this the "economic value" you hunters are always talking about?, as we are told countless times, that if they have no "economic value" they don't get protected.you are doing a bang up job as a "conservationist"
Wouldn't it be the solution to stop producing meat for Europeans in Africa?!? The real origin of this problem is people that want to eat their daily meat... African farmers just try to make money, of course they don't want lions near them! In order to protect the lions in Africa you would have to 1) Start campaigns, make people go vegetarian/vegan in Europe!! 2) Show the farmers other ways how they can earn money. 3) build really high fences...
Dont ban animal hunt, legalize hunter hunting and comercialize it ill pay greens to hunt millionare hunters all those bank accounts frozen in an instant makes my heart beat so fast...India has a law.
Great video. After having boots on the ground in Africa, I also changed my perspective. I am now a staunch supporter of well-managed hunting. We must base policies on the reality of Africa with facts...not emotions.
Trophy hunting is disguisting, there will always be enough animals left in zoos, trophy hunters are hideous brutes and shouldn't be allowed to let our their sick kicks. Disowning them and donating all of their wealth to conservation would fix both problems at once. Also conservation is pointless if done out of greed, it should only be done out of good will by the citizens of the country.
@@hazelhate6071 While I agree with you, we tend to see only the human side. There is a complex political problem here that cannot be addressed by a blanket ban. Prosperous nations and their citizens can be outraged by this, but the abject poverty and rampant corruption in the African nations is the driving force behind big game hunting.
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A lot of clueless people in this thread. Africa does not care about your first world problems...the people of Africa are trying to survive. If a lion has no economic value by bringing in tourism/sport hunting then it has little value to the people of Africa and will be shot or trapped for food. Sport hunting funds conservation, funds anti-poaching efforts, compensates farmers for livestock loss. Controlled hunting works everywhere in the world it is implemented and results in a stronger animal population. Hunters are the true environmentalists and put aside more private land for animals and fund more conservation efforts than all of the conservation groups combined.
ChicagoTRS Most hunters don't care about conservation. Their primary motivation is massaging their vanity and egos with a kill. I agree, by allowing commercial hunting it helps to manage lion numbers, but it doesn't take away that trophy hunters are sick people
rob jones ...Most hunters deeply care about conservation. Most hunters hunt for necessity, to fill their freezer, and recreation. If you want to change your quote to "most trophy hunters" then I might agree.
ChicagoTRS I think your comment " Sport hunting funds conservation, funds anti-poaching efforts, compensates farmers for livestock loss" is debatable. A study needs to be commissioned to see what the effect of trophy hunting has on threatened or endangered species.
rob jones You're wrong about that. Arguably, hunters have the most to gain by protecting wildlife that they wish to pursue. A great number of conservation clubs were started and are supported by hunters.
you are a frigging jerkoff. We need a worldwide law where humans can be hunted. You are on the top of the list. Your comment is bullshit no kind of hunting protects a damn thing but your peoples lame excuse to keep hunting doing. Its proven, these so called hunting outfits always claim their main objective supports "conservation" , h-o-r-s-e-s-h-i-t. Every wrong act has a made up excuse of why it benefits it and that's because some people don't have sense enough to believe the opposite. But you have others that tell the truth on what your political conservation organizations actually do, promote violence to animals o you eco pathogens can get your rocks off. The studies are in, hunting poses no benefit what so ever to a species. Go look them up. See for yourself. But you kind are a breed among yourselves, separated from the rest of the population, you need to be removed from this planet to a planet that can't sustain life. problem solved
then stop the farmers from killing the lions.
"how ban on lion hunting killed lions"
meanwhile in video "how permits were granted to farmers to go & shoot them"
The hypocrisy of this lad is over the roof .
About as over the roof as the lack of common sense in your comment. Farmers did not go and hunt the lions. They shot them to protect their livelihood, it was out of necessity not recreation. These are DCA situations.
Maybe you get in there and show everybody how to do it the right way?
Everything he said went completely over your head.
Let me try to explain it to you:
The farmers allowed lions to exist on their land because they got paid a portion of the hunter’s fees; that money they gained was MORE than the money they were losing from Lions eating their livestock. AFTER the ban on commercial hunting, farmers now had no incentive to allow lions to exist on their land as they were a risk to their livestock. Since they now had no money to compensate them for their livestock loss they were allowed to kill them. They killed 10 times the number of lions than were killed by commercial hunters before the ban.
Now do you understand?
The fundamental issue is that humans through the use of human thinking have convinced themselves that the human species is more valuable than all the other species on the planet. The issue is not one group vs another. The issue is all of humanity and the divisive nature of human thinking. It shows up in all aspects of human experience.
Lions think so too, they just have fewer options to dominate the world.
@@shrimpkins Note: you're replying to a comment from 4 years ago. How lions think, if they think, what they think, is entirely in the realm of speculation. The fact that they are called "lions" is simply a word label invented by humans for the purposes of communication. At the end of the day humans do not dominate the world, bacteria do!
@@ferdinandalexander8053 I was just kidding around. But you're right, bacteria are the real overlords. And maybe trees, since they can order clouds to dispense water the way a platoon radioman can order an air strike...
It wasn't because of the ban, lion hunters just want to keep this horrible sport legal.
Exactly. They just want to hunt them. They try and pull on the public’s heartstrings by making it seem they are doing something noble and are helping preserve life. But they aren’t, they just want to shoot things
You guys that say you dissagree ARE idiots. The guy is simply laying out facts and saying: here is a bad idea and here is a worse idea. Just because it makes you feel better doesn't mean it is the best idea. I also don't like trophy hunting of lions but I can't argue with what he says. And you guys who ate against hunting but eat meat. Stop beeing such hypocrites.
Axel Andersson Being against the hunting of a near extinct or endangered animal but eating meat from an animal that is not is hypocritical? I'm just trying to understand the stance
Yannick S people often eat the meat of lions, hell, look up the lion burgers that were sold in south africa during the world cup there
Yannick S Haven't you listened to the talk? If you want them to stop being endangered you shouldn't ban the hunt of them.
Yannick S Lions aren't near extinct. They are threatened and their numbers rise in certain areas. If you are so smart then talk to people whos family was attacked by a lion.
Lions are not consumable meat. Do you eat lions? Not I'm listing to ONE hypotistical speaker. This one man !!!!!!!
Regarding Ghanzi, there are ways for farmers to avoid lions, like watching their cattle (day time) and enclosing them in kraals at night. I live in Botswana and farmers just don't watch their cattle like other farmers in other countries do, they just let them roam around. According to Leopard Ecology & Conservation, over 95% of lion kills occur outside the kraals at night. Perhaps educating farmers and building effective kraals is the solution. To me the hunting ban is not the real problem here.
kalaharithorn You should have more likes since I personally have no idea how so condescending and not all that informed people are let to speak on some Ted talks. I instantly disliked the guy once he started addressing a major real life problem that should concern any human by referencing The Lion King. Like that's the reason grown men and women don't want animals that generally don't bother people to be hunted down for sport! I'm a person that empathise with every kill any of the lions shown on wildlife channels, but I understand that they're carnivorous and that is what they eat and that is their method of hunting. I'm not gonna get my shotgun to go kill a lion to, what, offer that zebra a few more days or weeks until she's gonna be eventually killed by another lion I haven't shot...yet? Also let's not pretend that trophy hunting is done for any other reason than to inflame the minuscule dicks and uptight pussies of the men and women who hunt these animals.
@@LB-uo7xy Id vote for helping those animals for free instead of hunting them All the hunters are sick people imo if you go search a word hunting the results are unbearable and its not just a sport now people creating content and entertaining sick people with videos like 50 headshot kills etc its siiiiick
Exactly. This a problem we have in the UK with sheep farmers. Many farmers just let their lambs be born in the field, with no shelter or protection from predators like corvids or foxes, who usually tend to go for lambs and sheep who are in labour. One easy solution to this is lambing indoors, which has been shown to be the most effective way of protecting lambs from predation. Then when they are all born, let them out of the barn into the pasture so they at least have a chance to evade predators
White tail deer in America were almost hunted to extinction in most of America. Conservation programs, not hunting bans, brought them back from the brink. A system of permits and tag limits allowed the deer to recover to the point of overpopulation decades later. Using similar solutions in South Africa have done the same for the lion population in that country. Here's a clue. Hunters will spend a lot of money and accept limited hunting in order to preserve the species they're hunting. Another point not discussed in this video. Every time a large game animal get listed on the endangered list, you made that animal more desirable, thus, more valuable. This draws poachers like flies to honey.
sean m Not when they are doing it illegally.
Mostly true but whitetails have never been near extinction across N America. Perhaps in some areas, but not across the continent. Their numbers have grown immensely do to reduction of predators, abundance of food (farms/ranches), and sustainable hunting regulations. Same with the wild turkey.
hashdfw Not true www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/03/269638281/can-it-be-pigeons-geese-and-white-tailed-deer-were-once-rare
djsaito I guess reading comprehension wasn't your forte in school. Do you know what the definition of poaching is? Google it.
hashdfw What I posted is 100% true. Had there been Departments of Conservation back during the depression, the white tail deer would have been listed as critically endangered. There were only an estimated 500,000 left in the entire country. Now the white tailed deer herds have rebounded to an estimated population of over 20 million. Almost all paid for through the efforts of state conservation programs and the money hunters pay for hunting licenses.
The ban didn't kill them humans did
Too many narcissistic people who cannot and will not ever ever admit that they could be completely wrong.
Oh the irony of you making this comment.
Nice presentation. But this could be true for this particular case of hunting in the Kalahari and Ghanzi areas. But overall, lion hunting is a shame, and in South Africa lions are sedated and even kept in enclosures while trackers "search" for the lions with the hunters on a shameful & false hunting expedition. There are very few thousand wild lions left in the world; hunting them cannot be a solution. However, Mikkel is being very objective & cautious and I agree with most of what he said.
I am sorry to say but lots of people that posted here really did not listen and are not prepared to be educated. It blows my mind about the untruths that some write as truths, like the cattle meat are fed to dogs and cats, maybe the offal, but not the meat, Electric fences kills more of the small animals than what you want to believe. We need a holistic approach.
Any renewable resource must be utilised, BUT it must be done in a sustainable way. South Africa is a very good example of conservation. There are at least 10 times the amount of wildlife than there were in the 60's and hunting for the pot and for trophies played a big part in this. The animals got a value and therefore the farmers started protecting their wildlife and thereby started protecting the eco system . Conservation starts with soil, then plants and then animals. How many animals are senseless being killed to produce vegetables for the vegetarians, yes you did not know it, but it is a fact, crop farmers will kill anything that have an influence on their harvest. How many people became vegetarians because they have an issue with the slaughtering of cattle, but little did they know that wildlife are killed to supply their demand for vegetables.
Come on people we need a holistic approach and use our resources wisely, only then will we be able to save the planet from ourselves.
What about man overpopulating?
Sportsmen are mostly GOP.
Which is
They are pro-profit,
Pro-capitalist
They believe in anthropocentrism and human supremacist. EGO vs ECO. Sportsmen goes to EGO.
Anti-environment and pro-driller.
zaxtor Why not take advantage of sportmen's ego to purchase and conserve land? Use their weakness to help all?
Casey Zillman They never help where they cannot hunt.
They only "conserve" a land so they can manipulate wildlife.
Killing all predators and overpopulating deer unnaturally so they kill them.
These inbred hicks kill all wolves and demonize them.
They portray them as the bad guys.
I watch these inbred hicks and they're soo full of hatred.
Many of them are racist, homophobic, xenophobic , hypocritical and does stuff they hate but blames on non hunters doing stuff the hicks hate.
ABC news is non bias, non left nor right.
hunting industries exploit children and use them as sex slave in foreign countries with corruption and political turmoils.
abcnews.go.com/WN/sex-tourism/story?id=10288468
zaxtor Lmao, abc is very lefty biased.
Lions protect their territory and fend off other lions from their territory.
hunting saves the wild lands . period.
cheva243 No, all humans, hunters and farmers not killing wild animals saves the wild lands
rob jones I am going to make a wag here and assume that you have never been somewhere where wild animals have over populated the area and have dead animals rotting in the streams and lakes poisoning the water that everyone uses and spreading disease thru the rest of the herds have you?
ken swan I have actually yes. Quite a few places. Ive also sen lots of places where humans have polluted water supplies too. So by your logic, should we kill humans too? Wild animals don't stand a chance as long as people keep exploiting, killing and encroaching on wild lands. This isn't going to happen so unfortunately animals are going to suffer. I guess you could say, it's us or them, in a bitter fight for survival, but everyone loses in the long run.
ken swan Are you saying that lions have over populated parts of Africa? I think not. We all know that the real culprits of this sad situation are humans.
rob jones do you donate money or contribute to maintaining wild lands? i know we hunters do, we keep the habitat free from human "development". I just wish hunters and non hunters could work together instead of fighting and accomplish nothing..
I feel they should concentrate on all the rich American money to a "capture and relocation" program. There ARE successful programs out there that reintegrate endangered species into the wild. How is killing them legally any morally different than killing them by angry villagers?
Why cant farmers make fence higher???
it's not about the hight, it's the amount of power a wild lion has and the cost of building somthing that can stand up to it.
@@fglg well said
Look it’s not the animals fault if you go to their home and build you house do you really think they will leave you alone
"a good portion of it will make him feel secure" a good portion is actually 3% of it .
If you want to save a species, simply decide to eat [or hunt] it. Then it will be managed - like chickens, like turkeys, like deer, like Canadian geese.
- Ted Nugent
M. Jones Trust me. In poor countries meat is meat. Nothing goes to waste.
x2 Jeff In the US when we harvest an animal, be it through hunting or a raised animal at a butcher, there's a gutpile that is either left for scavengers or used for fertilizer. When I was in Africa the natives took the guts back for food. Nothing is wasted.
+Zundfolge Ted Nugent is a knob, a blowhard and a knob. I wouldn't listen to one word that loser says.
Except a LIFE.. You think these animals were put here to shoot at,,? they are put for here as a part of the ecosystem..Just as you commen, they are expected to die off in the year 2020...Like I asked " What is your part? Animals are living non human sentient with a nervous system scientifically capable of feeling pain and experiencing other emotions including other emotions including suffering and anguish ..Scientifically written
@@sandrasilvestri7059 yet they still kill each other anyways.
How about taking lion hunting out of the equation completely and then look for a solution to the problem. Only the hunters' money can pay for compensation? There is so much money donated by people who hate trophy hunting. Where is all that money going?
Fundraising is an expensive business
relatives of mine worked in these game farm, both eco tourists and hunters went there. Ultimatly it's all down to the bottom line, money. Hunters have more, hunters pay more. If you can find a way to get more money from eco tourisim great, the game farms will be the first in line but until then... I'll give you an example, I went on a 5 day road trip around South Africa, took my parents, the three of us, taking pictures of animals, animal encounters, etc spent about 1000 to 1500 dollars US for the 3 of us. As he said a hunt goes for several hundred thousand and that's just 1 man for roughly the same period of time. Does eco tourism bring in money? Yes but several orders of magnitude less than hunting
lol at the hunters who think he is saying hunting is the solution. He even says it's the lesser of two evils at this current time. If nobody killed animals the populations would obviously thrive. But that's not possible so what he is saying is that we all need to work together, both sides.
Stephen Carmickle... I've heard many a hunter claim that predators need to be controlled. Even threatened or endangered species like lions, which are now extinct in 26 countries in Africa. Leave the animals to themselves and nature will manage their numbers like she has for millions of years.
+Derek Branum So agreed, why can't people see this, because they are idiots, greedy. If the people would stop taking their habitat away there wouldn't be a problem between lions and people. People are the worst thing ever created. I bet if there is a God, He's been thinking the same thing and kicking hisself. I don't blame lions, living things don't take kindly when what's there's gets taken from another. This is where a problem erupting into war happens, damn stupid humans
TINA GAFFNEY I agree, we are the worst living things on Earth, constantly destroying the things that allow us to live. What makes it worse is that we could so very easily be the absolute best living things, by far.
+Serengeti Lion how the hell are you typing? You don't have thumbs!
I agree.. as the only species able to effect change it is our sacred duty to make this planet a kinder better plsce.,not to emulate raw unevoled nature.
People with good intentions have exacerbated the situation between Lions and cattle farmers. The farmers are now aggravated and embittered, their feelings are irritated by the loss of cattle, their livelihood without compensation. All by the people w/ good intentions,
however, uneducated to the real problems $$ Money that once payed these farmers for their cattle loses. It disgusts me to see these remarkable animals killed for sport, however,
it disgusts me much more to see them killed because they ate a cow. Stop the hunting ban and we save the Lions.
Poor creatures just can't win.
A very well presented view and as a hunting person I agree 100% that emotion and a lack of knowledge have been allowed to rule over common sense in many areas,we in the UK have a very similar situation with brown hares,hunting with hounds was banned but they can still be shot and it won't be long before the onmce abundant hare will be red listed or wiped out as now instead of they being a sporting animal they're classed as a pest so it's yet another example of emotions over ruling common sense but will the haters be bothered,ofcourse they won't,they'll just pass the blame for their own stupidity onto others.It's what they do.
youre not a hunter youre a killer. you should hunt with a spear and face a lion one on one.. thats a real hunter, not hide safely from afar and shoot with a gun like a coward. Maybe you should experience being "hunted" and shot from afar too to see how it feels like.
I’m from the UK. Hares will never be a red listed species, they are green listed species. They also aren’t even native, so even if they were wiped out, it would have literally zero impact on our ecosystem. Studies show that hunting with hounds has very little impact on overall populations, those who do use hounds are just rich people who want to go out killing wildlife. Hound hunting has no place in conservation, it’s just a public menace and a nuisance for poor farmers and landowners to have to deal with. Seriously, go look at the videos of landowners having their livestock harassed or their pets dismembered by the hunt.
@@theotheseaeagle You came to the right person didn't you as i'm an ex huntsman of hare hounds i.e beagles and have been involved around hounds for atleast fourty years but funnily enough i'm a welder who grew up nowhere near any ''posh'' folks and you'll find a lot of people in hunting are shop workers,mechanics and the likes so it amazes me with your lack of actual knowledge.If you want a debate go and learn something first instead of merely spouting absolute rubbish!.Have you guessed yet,i'm English!.
@@letmeoffthisplanet6208 I’m not spouting rubbish, merely stating the truth from experience. Most if not all members of the hunt are usually posh and unbelievably entitled. They don’t care if they are trespassing on someone’s land or if they’ve killed someone’s animal, all they care about is ripping apart an animal. I’m also very glad the ban was brought in. I don’t mind people humanely hunting on their own land with guns (as long as they aren’t negatively impacting the local environment or people) just not a fan of people trespassing with a huge pack of noisy and potentially aggressive hounds (it’s not uncommon for some hounds especially foxhounds to lash out when they are excited due to the high prey drive). And like I said earlier, brown hares aren’t a native species, so there’s no point comparing an introduced herbivore, to a predator in its native environment. I also own a beagle
@@theotheseaeagle Your experience is very limited then as you are still spouting absolute rubbish,as i've stated if you want to continually claim that hunts are filled with posh privileged people then you know absolutely nothing about them and that is fact!.Another thing for you,did you know that an awful lot were set up by miners,are they posh to you as well as it appears you must have lived one very deprived life if you do...As for trespassing, an odd occasion it has been known and due to honest mistakes but if you want to bring trespass into it sab groups across the country trespass on land causing damage and assaults regularly but is it any surprise you fail to mention that. Go and educate yourself a little instead of being such a bitter twisted individual who's information comes via scam artists masquerading as antis.
I have a solution! Let the farmers do what they need to do to continue! Also, tag and monitor all the lions! Then move the lion surplus to areas that they have been eliminated from! After all, they have been eliminated from most of Africa! Also the many breeding and canned hunting programs going on in Africa and the world for hunters should be eliminated as well! Why will this not work? Because the Human factor is cheap, irresponsible, and LAZY! That is the only reason!
It requires a ludicrous amount of funding that we in Africa don't have. Furthermore, relocating a territorial wild animal is not very successful as it will trek 1000's of kilometres to go back to where it came from. Especially if there is easy prey in the form of cattle present.
Thank you for rising and telling the truth!
That's just propaganda and lies.
@@antonb.9220 agreed
Too many cows and too many people encroaching on wild terrain.Educate girl so they have fewer children. Support ecotourism; go see lions before ether are gone.
hahahahahahahahahaha the ecotourism lie is a funny read.
Mr. Legarth, is your project (and the lions featured on your website and fb page) in Botswana linked to Christian De Graaff in Botswana who exports lions to neighboring South Africa (for the lion breeding industry, and ultimately the canned hunting industry, according to a recent article about De Graaff)? TEDxTalks, please consult Dereck and Beverly Joubert (they did a TED talk a while back) about lion conservation and ask their opinion about this talk.
This is the truth about conservation and The Modisa Project is a perfect example of the future of the conservation of rogue predators that are needed in the Eco-system, yet are seen as a problem to human life in the area.
earth is for everyone not just humanity. we spread like a virus destroying everything in our paths. Infact we destroyed 50%of forests and 60%of animals since 1970.
Great video, senseful context! Thank You so much for what you say and do! Keep it up!!!
Any of you guys actually live in africa?
I'm going to address a couple of issues that always come up in these threads. To quote one study that found "only" 3% of the trophy fee goes directly to conservation is a bit misleading. And to say that ecotourism brings in enough to conserve all the wildlife in Africa is similarly misleading. Much of the land that is dedicated to managed trophy hunting would no longer be what amounts to private nature reserves if trophy hunting were banned. If land owners are able to bring in huge sums of money so that a few rich hunters can come in once and a while to kill an animal, you better believe that there is motivation to keep that land wild. And having enough land to support animals that are hunted for trophies necessarily entails having enough land for all the other smaller species too - from insects to mesocarnivores, native flora as well. Note that canned hunting is a completely separate issue and is not what I refer to here. So getting caught up on what percentage of the trophy fee goes "directly" to conservation is a bit misguided. How many private land tracts would be turned into monoculture farms or cattle ranches if all commercial hunting were banned? Furthermore, not all countries in Africa are politically stable or "tourist-friendly." Unless an area has an endemic species that can be seen nowhere else, which is NOT the case with lions, Americans are going to want to go to the safer, touristy areas. Those less-stable countries still attract trophy hunters, and still bring in money for both indirect and direct forms of conservation.
What I never see anywhere in human society is personal responsibility. There are solutions to every problem yet people are lazy, and it's easier to blame someone or somthing else. This is all walks of life farmers,ranchers,hunters, corporations, consumers etc. etc.
This video is bullshit. A much simpler solution would be to relocate or kill those farmers who shoot the endangered lions. 20 000 lions vs 7 000 000 000 people; do the math. Those lions are much more valuable if you ask from the majority of the people.
Hydrogen Trip Okay, why don't you go relocate them. While your at it, you can explain to the government of Botswana why they will henceforth not only lose all the revenue the get from taxes on the farmers' incomes, but they will have to pay out money to fund patrols needed to drive out and keep out human settlers who'd try to move into the area, as well as poachers who will still hunt they animals illegally.
Darren O'Connor I m sorry but that s just nonsense, where would you relocate that many lions ? botsuana is already one of the lesst dense populated countries in the world wich is the reason why so much wildlife survived there in the first place... first research than post pls
Even if you don t like hunting, it is a very good way to protect lions. An average lion hunt costs about 30.000 dollars that s more than enough to turn cattlefarmers t private game reserve owners, the value of his wildlife creates incentives to increase the numbers
Andreas Haase
I'm going to guess from your name that English is probably not your fist language (Dutch maybe?). Apparently sarcasm doesn't come through the language barrier.
Actually I m south african from german heritage and consider myself being quite fluent in english... it must be the heritage that makes me not understand your sarcasm. Germans can t be funny, never... :-P
Kenya elephant's population 160k then 1975 , Hunting became elegal
NOW..... 2010, 20k elephants remain.........................................
Zimbabwe 1975 20k elephant's population....... hunting has always been legal
today 2010 stats 100k is the elephant population
CASE CLOSED
Just a note, it's spelled illegal. I don't want readers to think you meant legal, as the fact you are illustrating is that elephants flourished in Kenya when regulated hunting was allowed, but now that it is banned, elephant numbers are in great decline.
Kenya did better, 20k are better to look over
As the human population grows and our demand for more agricultural land increases there will be more and more clashes with the wild animals that live there. Hunting not only provides valuable tourist money for parts of Africa, it also balances populations in areas where humans and wildlife come into contact. As Mikkel stated, stop thinking with only emotions when it comes to wild animals. The facts are that during clashes with humans and wild animals, the animals lose every-time, they can be killed by a farmer or a hunter... The lion certainly doesn't care. Everyone should agree that the money paid by a tourist is better then no money at all. When you remove emotion from the equation the facts have been there the whole time.
The argument about how the farmers can't be blamed is beyond ludacris. Apart from that I pretty much agree.
***** A farmer has a right and a duty to protect his or her livestock. That is as true in Americas as it is in Africa. In North America animals such as wolves, coyote, bears and cougars threaten livestock. In Africa you have lions. I wouldn't shoot a lion or coyote for sport but if I had either loitering around my home where I have children or my pet dogs, I'd be sure to protect my property.
Id shoot a bear , coyote, wolf or fox if it threatens my flock
Hi, this is TED, where everyone presents their talk in nearly the same fashion until it gets to the point where you wonder if they all went to the same school or if TED is teaching them in the first place. It's weird.
Marcara081 lol good observation
they all got their "leadership" training by the same NGO
"I do not believe that anyone who was out there getting petitions signed knew what the consequences would be" That is because you can't listen while shouting at someone else. A lot of smart people have been saying just that for a very long time.
I am a hunter. I shoot for four reasons: To eat what I shoot, and know where my food comes from, to protect my economical interests in way of forest and fields, to manage the population so as to prevent disease typical from overpopulation and because part of my land is a nature reserve for endangered ground breeding birds, so that I am required by law to shoot all (house) cats and foxes in that part.
I would never pay to go to Africa to shoot something, but I know people who would. I don't understand this, but I am pragmatic enough to know that putting a high value on killing an animal protects it, because they won't be seen as a worthless nuisance.
The problem with ideology is that it is usually in the way of pragmatic solutions, as was very well explained here.
+mamakind99 Eating what you shoot is one thing, when it's not a threatened or endangered species, but hunting for pleasure and ego or even worse, for the kinds of quotas and contests that the very ugly Safari Club International puts forth, is dispicable. My guess is you are not flying to Africa to bring home lion meat.
If lion killers keep this up the only lions we will ever see will be at Disneyland.
What about these lion farms also? How is that helping these lions? All that is doing is creating a bigger demand for lion bones which in turn is causing more poaching ect and a terrible existence for these lions, give you head a shake people...see what us really happening!
+restlessgypsy Lion farms are considered a separate issue, most conservation organizations and hunting lobby's are against them, because no profit is passed onto conservation or local people.
also I'd like to add that the lions in cages are not really wild. we have the same things here in America it's called free range farms. there are some caged farms in Africa that house animals which are already extinct in the wild therefore the species is still preserved domestically. it's not the prettiest thing but it still has some benefits. most are just in it for the $ though but there are good ones.
How could you kill such a majestic creature, for the sake of tourism. Shame, Shame, Shame.
If you love lions so much donate to save them. Spend the money that hunters would have. But then lions will still die, by other lions, and it's a horrible death.
+firehuntfish well that's a good question, I don't know. I was just pointing out that there is no greater revenue for conservation than that of hunters. But if people want to off set that it's going to cost them.
Is this a problem with lion hunting, or is it a problem with mass animal agriculture?
No, it's a problem with lions being stupider than us and deservedly getting wiped out for their inferiority.
This exemple happens for plants agriculture but with elephants etc.
@@nwey6151 false analogy my guy. Animals have sentience, objective reality (in varying degrees), and a central nervous system that allows them to feel pleasure and pain. Plants don't have that.
Saying that animal agriculture and plant agriculture is the same, is the equivalent of saying that harvesting human organs and mining metal is the same thing. One causes clear harm, pain, and potentially leads to loss of life, while the other is just a resourse.
Of course, now you'll start googling and looking up "plants can feel pain" and will respond with some buzz feed article from 8 years ago that says that plants might feel pain, but I dont expect anything more from you.
@@romatab.441 the anology is completely right. elephants for example destroy a lot of agriculture and the only reason why locals and farmers dont kill them all its because of what they earn from legal hunting. Im on the field and i know this reality im not sitting on a computer watching lion king. mannaging wild life isnt the same as mannaging 2 cats and 1 dog in a appartement.
My question exactly! Because the animal rights activists aren't contributing to this demand for meat.
Watch "The Lion King" and understand that the hyenas today have two legs.
lol, says it all when you use cartoons as a deffence. back to your cartoons
Some profound thought, but ...: Did I miss something in the logical flow.
1) Logical flow missed: a-Assumption: The Botswana farm can't continue without the lion revenues. b-the lions in Botswana are now all but gone. c. Then by definition, the farmers must have all failed and are now gone too! Right? Oh, they aren't? Therefore the premise must be flawed. Translation: it was always justification for the extra revenue for the farmers through trophy hunts. But never was really necessary for the farmers survival. Truth #1: The trophy hunts were an excuse for revenue, but not necessary for farm survival.
2) Logical flow missed #2: a-Botswana residents reclassified the animals as "problem animals" ... only after the hunts were shut down and revenues lost. b-If they weren't problem animals before, then they aren't after. c-The only thing that changed is humans and our rationalization. Truth #2: Humans are the "problem animals." Humans can't simply not kill, ... because its the right thing to do. If we are not compensated, then we will find ways to justify our killing. ... and carry it out.
3) Logical flow miss #3: The trophy hunters show us all the stats on how they are the "great saviors" of animals because of what is paid for by the economics of hunts. If they are really great saviors, then why not simply cut the check. What's with the need for blood-lust and killing. There is some demented thinking in there somewhere.
4) Logical flow miss #4: Long term, what happens when the remaining trophy hunters come into this century and catch up with the rest of the modern world's thinking? What happens when carcasses hanging on walls, toasting over scotch and showing off to friends no longer contributes to self worth of guys with little dicks? This is when we realize that the real problem wasn't solved, ... it was never even addressed. The real problem revolves around the greater self restraint of the human race as we continue with our "conquest" and spawl toward every corner of the planet. Trophy hunting is a lesser problem than the one we haven't even begun to discuss.
1) He didn't say the farms would fail without the extra revenue, he said it gave them extra security and a fallback.
2)He said that the farmers were shooting the lions before commercial hunting so they were labeled as such. Commercial hunting just helped with reducing the number of lions killed yearly is the point he was going for. Although I agree without concrete statistics to observe personally, it's a weaker point.
3) The fact that people like to hunt and that some people have ridiculous amounts of money is unavoidable. It would be nice if people always just donated to good causes, but someone isn't going to drop that kinda of money for nothing. So the idea is one he mentioned of which is the lesser evil. Hundreds of thousands in the local economy and dead lions, or no the cost of a few bullets given to an ammo dealer and dead lions.
4) He specifically mentions that the problem isn't solved by allowing commercial hunting. It just might be the best available option for right now. He said that better options with better logical backing need to be found. We just have to look at it with more than just emotion. Stopping something bad without any evidence that it will improve the situation is just as bad as doing nothing. Worse so if the long term affect is worse than the initial.
Your points aren't invalid, they just ignored what he said to address some of them and the fact that said he isn't a hunter and isn't pro commercial hunting. He just thinks a better overall solution is needed. Not just stopping because we don't like it.
M. Jones Most people would actually have no trouble understanding what I wrote but thanks anyway.
I'm saying that you have to be sure that the solution proposed is an overall solution and not one that is only based on emotion.
Just because something "bad" is stopped does not mean that everything is immediately better. In the video it is stated that the commercial lion hunting was stopped. Commercial lion hunting=bad=stopped. This, however did not suddenly lead to a rise in the lion population. Instead, the farmers continued shooting them like they did before and the lions basically all died off. An overall solution to the problem was not used. It could therefore be argued that the end result was worse than the previous state of affairs.
Basically, I think what he pointed out as logical flaws to the arguments in the video weren't all necessarily that flawed.
Has that made my point any clearer?
The biggest part of the produced meat on botswana´s cattle farms is not for the Europeans, it´s for the food for their dogs, cats and whatever. That makes it even worse!
It seems many of the commentators missed the point of someone making a profit from a resource will do more than a gvmt to protect that resource; a private person/business is invested with their own money, capital, labor - a gvmt has no incentive, other than publicly-perceived image, and even that is paid for not with the bureaucrat-politician's own money, but with money taken from the tax-payer in the first place !
Have a look at the African Rhino-story - changes in herd-populations since gvmt gave up their ineffective and devastating attempts at protecting them from becoming extinguished and privatized the herds !
Peter Quenter
very true...
Jones yes ignore the facts, science and reality. Cling to your fairy tale brainwashing.
@@bricehenry1223 YOU enjoy YOUR fairytale. .
@@bricehenry1223 enjoy YOUR brainwash
thats another lie, india has a permission to officials to kill hunters.
The real fact is that the ban on lion hunting is not what killed the lions; what killed the lions is the fact that we have animal agriculture taking up so much space in places where wildlife should be prioritary. Humans can live and thrive on a plant based diet, we would free up to 75% of land used in animal agriculture and agriculture destined to feed them; we could free up this habitats that we have invaded, and then see how could we improve them using strategic contraception, not hunting.
We just have to think, could we justify killing some humans so others could live? Although that's basically what we do now, we already know that's not the moral way to go; so why would it be with lions and other wildlife species that we kill to "protect"?
this is not a Ted Talk, this is a normalization of animal rights violation. Gov shouls approve the hunt of hunters, its better. And if you are a farmer and you have an issue, talk to the authorities and sedate, trap de animal, or just try to find the way to feed it. Meat is a multibillionare bussiness!
Good news on the Botswana conservation efforts and challenges but Legarth is heavily skewed and clearly uneducated himself on predator conservation.
"I will never understand why someone will come to Africa, kill a lion, and bring it back home to put it up on a wall as a trophy" -Legarth
"This is a choice between two evils" - Legarth
"I am definately not a friend of the hunting business" - Legarth
This good hearted presenter makes the assumption that all hunters that pay big bucks to travel and hunt are "trophy hunters" . You can hear it and see it, he knows deep down in his gut that proper conservation includes hunting but cant admit it. Because he hasnt quite experienced a rewarding hunt or read enough on predator ecology and the success stories like many states in the US having recovered to healthy populations of MOUNTAIN LION partly due to issuing the right number of lion tags and putting hunting funds to work (yes we have lions in North America). The charismatic megafauna have instead won his heart and he cant look beyond to a great idea of lions as a species and not an individual.
I dont know, just some observations from someone who has hunted and who has another level of appreciation for the animals Ive eaten and the animals who live along side those animals.
keep going
My family and I had the pleasure of spending a few days with Joseph recently and he is an incredibly passionate guide but more importantly, he's a remarkable person - full of life, laughs and wonderful stories! God bless Joseph and best wishes from Tom, Eva and the kids.
You hunt wild animals and you have kids!!
Theres no way to change everybodies mind, so there ya go! The human dilemma: we are chained to our future the human race is making, not vibrations in air.
This is the most ludicrous and lazy position to justify the slaughter of a species!
this shouldnt be a ted Talk!
Lazy? This man spends time in the field with these amazing animals. He dosnt know of a better solution. People and african governments dont have enough money respources to save these animals. For yhe mean time responvible huntjng can save these animals
so you're saving the very few adult male lions who don't hunt farmers cattle by killing them? farmers aren't the ones killing male lions at a rate of 1/5th the male population yearly. these farmers have lived for generations back when there was more lions. fact is the Lions numbers drastically fell when people started murdering them for self gratification. if people didn't hunt or support buying anything made from poaching then only a few lions who press boundaries will get killed not ones deep in their land...also can't really call it hunting or being a sportsman it literally takes no skill besides point n click for pay.
One should take a good look on these African nations who has a band all hunting...almost no free roaming animal left. All killed by poachers locally for food or organized by government people.
So the lesson here is to understand something before doing it
In other words, conservatism.
so if I lock my cookie jar so no more people can eat the cookies, and I check tomorrow, there would be less cookies in the jar? Logic?
Jake Duggan neither, im just a wierdo making pointless arguments.
Hear hear
and what about africans of dont got soo many children?
And who are you to tell people how to live?
Just buy Canadian beef......or American beef. or raise chickens instead lol
WTH!
Narcissistic little Dutch guy is preaching.. and still most of us will disagree. I wish all hunters were extinct.
@Alexander Lanius An animal isn't better off being hunted by human instead of a Lion or wolf. Lion and wolf belong to them and they are all sons and daughters of nature. Humans are unworthy of hunting them and bring shame upon them.
Can't wait for my lion hunt!
You can't afford to even hunt mice.
Can't wait for saving the lions and exterminating all Anglo hunters that destroy Africa
@@hazelhate6071 good luck brother
Electric Fencing would solves this problem.
Andrew Pottow "Oh wait, hunters are the only ones putting meaningful money into conservation." It's comments like that make you look ignorant.
So you enjoy killing animals for no particular reason, it make you a monster. Its all about greed and self satisfaction. trophy hunters follow the same attributes as pscyhopathic/sociopathic persons. And your picture shows you to be, you look like an SS officer. People like you should be locked away from society.
You have "proven" no "facts" the facts are only about 5% of the money actually goes to anyone but the outfitter. You can keep believing in your pseudo-conservationism .If you were a conservationist you'd pick up a gun and defend wildlife instead of killing it. We all know very well that the only thing you are conserving is your "right" to kill animal. Psychopath: superficial charm- check absensence of delusional thinking -check lack of remorse- check callus,lack of empathy-check failure to accept responcibility for ones actions-check, externalizing blame-check I could go for so many more signs that people like you are psychopathic. Not to mention the phot and video taking of you killing for gratification viewing later. You sir are a psychopath, in addition to being just plain evil ,people like you never believe you are evil or sick. The world is waking up to your illness, 10% of the population destroying most of the world animals.I have never once looked at an animal and said that's beatiful, "I want to kill it" only people like you think that way, which make you mentally ill weather you acknowledge it or not.
I served in the military and am in the process to going to africa to fight againts poachers, and I have never killed any animal.I see your "conservation" dollars aint doing shit to stop poaching, what I do see is fat cats paying to kill animals already in danger. You are not helping animals by killing them, your story and facts are bullshit. I know plenty well the type of man you are, infact you are one of those men that has to prove how tough you are by killing something that can't shoot back. Your conservation arguement hold as much weight as a glass of water with a hole in the bottom. And all the rhinos and elephants getting killed for stupidity, greed and ego is that tha "eonomic value" that if it did not exist they therefore would not be protected? bang up job guy I wish I was as cool as you making up bullshit in order to justify your killing. We all know the only "preservation" you care about is preserving your "right" to kill, you have no interest in animals beyond that, keep deluding yourself that you are a hero, a great guy and all the other shallow bullshit, in my book you aren't shit.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=f27_1392625552
So is this the "economic value" you hunters are always talking about?, as we are told countless times, that if they have no "economic value" they don't get protected.you are doing a bang up job as a "conservationist"
Wouldn't it be the solution to stop producing meat for Europeans in Africa?!? The real origin of this problem is people that want to eat their daily meat... African farmers just try to make money, of course they don't want lions near them! In order to protect the lions in Africa you would have to
1) Start campaigns, make people go vegetarian/vegan in Europe!!
2) Show the farmers other ways how they can earn money.
3) build really high fences...
Going vegan isn't the answer
@@ollievw3450 it is
@@hazelhate6071 so no more cows?
@@ollievw3450 no more cows expect for petting
@@hazelhate6071 hahaha, you are so silly. Enjoy living in lala-land, maybe you’ll get to pet a rainbow unicorn as well
In WAR, we hunt humans.
🤪
Go away little Dutch guy.
Dont ban animal hunt, legalize hunter hunting and comercialize it ill pay greens to hunt millionare hunters all those bank accounts frozen in an instant makes my heart beat so fast...India has a law.
Ban animal hunt at all costs and get rid of trophy hunters
So stop meat and dairy production too, there's your problem solved...
Yes, tell the starving africans to just stop producing what they need to not starve to death.
@@OMGUKILLKENNY2 They should raid the homes of trophy hunters with support of society.
Great video. After having boots on the ground in Africa, I also changed my perspective. I am now a staunch supporter of well-managed hunting. We must base policies on the reality of Africa with facts...not emotions.
Trophy hunting is disguisting, there will always be enough animals left in zoos, trophy hunters are hideous brutes and shouldn't be allowed to let our their sick kicks. Disowning them and donating all of their wealth to conservation would fix both problems at once. Also conservation is pointless if done out of greed, it should only be done out of good will by the citizens of the country.
tell us the real reason or shall I BLOOD MONEY RUNNING NATION FACT
Well, If they're gonna die, somebody might as well get paid. And all is good in the world.
Nothing is good in the world, all trophy hunters need to be sentenced to death and their money donated to others
@@hazelhate6071 While I agree with you, we tend to see only the human side. There is a complex political problem here that cannot be addressed by a blanket ban. Prosperous nations and their citizens can be outraged by this, but the abject poverty and rampant corruption in the African nations is the driving force behind big game hunting.
Let's all go hunting in the Nederland. How's the wildlife over there. Hunted to extinction.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
So what are you doing for the protection of wildlife, Belinda?
Why in The Netherlands?