The aspect you haven't acknowledged is that there are solo players that just want to be left the F alone but we haven't been given any tools to make that a reality. The tragedy is that the same tools that would allow the solo player to get himself out of a griefing situation can also be used by the griefer to keep from being held accountable for being a AH as well and there's the rub. I have many large multi-crew ships in my inventory but will only ever scratch the surface of their capabilities because I will only use a portion of what they have to offer. CIG said at one time that we were going to be able to hire an NPC crew to fill crew slots, I haven't seen any progress being made toward that end.
I've been here since very early 2013, and I do remember that from the very beginning, they said the game would cater to everyone, but there would be tradeoffs. No matter which play style you choose, there will be pros and cons. In some ways, playing with large orgs will be fun, and in other ways, no so much. In some ways, playing solo will be fun, but in other ways, not so much. There are things I remember them promising. 1. There will be areas that are much safe/safer but the rewards will be less lucrative. That's more than fair. If you want to avoid PvP, you can stay in those areas. The reason the unsafe areas have to be more lucrative is to make up for your losses. Also, sure there may be better resources to gain there, but if you aren't doing PvP, is that going to be critical to have? I don't think so. Also, there will be other mechanisms to cause random ganking to be less of a thing. Fixing ships won't be as cheap. Resupplying ammo and fuel won't be as cheap. So going after solo players simply won't be worth the time of a PvP oriented Org. 2. Solo in a large ship with NPC crew will not be as good as having player crew. 3. You can affiliate with many orgs to facilitate having more friends to play with, without being 100% committed to that Org. 4. Playing solo will be possible, but not the best way to experience everything. It's meant to be played with others. 5. I've never had a hard time making friends in a game. If you like to play with others, but don't want something rigid, join something like TEST Squadron. Or, you can search for a smaller, more casual org to play with. Once again, since you can affiliate with many orgs, it gives you the ability to play with several orgs to find one that fits you. Remove an org when you realize they aren't a great fit.
for all ya solo players, we making an org around having a planetary city, allowing people to do whatever they like and get a house in our [to come] city, we doing this so that soloplayers that are not interested in base building on itself can still have a little home while being close to refinery's and hangers and so on.
@4tonmike FIXIT, but right now we ain't nothing serious just wanted to share our idea atm we only got like 15 people with 3 actively playing sc atm :P but if base building is out! Feel free to visit our base!
@@AeyLaen great! I hope with org rework and how base building in the way of making buildings private and etc will hopefully support this idea of ours, i think many may appreciate it in the long run. So if you want to help you're always free to join us! We don't mind if you have a 2nd org
Trying to do group play in this game is harder than trying to have a consistent DND campaign. Everyone's schedules are different. The randoms i played with during the SSP3 mission I haven't seen again. We all have our own way to play, our own loops. Even in chat when you ask someone to join your reclaimer to do some salvaging a lot of people say no they are dining their own thing. That's why I think CIG should make a single seater maybe a two seater ship that's an upgrade of the vulture and prospector. The Mole is doable solo just kind of a hassle and the reclaimer is unbearable.
This, it is great fun to play with my org mate, but it's like paddling upstream, very tedious and time consuming, by the time we get going someone has to go
I agree with you that solo players should be able to engage in all of the game loops and I think it's arrogant to believe that one human (even with the assistance of AI blades or NPCs) should be as productive as 3 humans. I fly a MSR solo (irregular playtimes that rarely last more than 30 minutes) and I'd love to have someone man the turrets but very few players are willing to just do a single cargo run before I have to log off. Because of that I'm looking forward to AI blades and NPCs. However, I am under no misconception that my ship will ever be as efficient or as productive as a MSR with three humans in it. Not everyone gets to be the main character and I wish that more people in our world understood that.
Group play on a erratic schedule like some people have myself included just isn't possible I resigned myself to the fact that I will never own or operate anything that's not solo friendly. I hope they don't dilute the system in order to entice people into purchasing the bigger ships They've set a standard I am absolutely fine with it just stay with it
I agree as a whole however as a primarily solo player I would like to see some larger/more capable/or more luxurious single or 2 crew ships as something to move up into beyond a starter or fighter
allowing a solo to have remote turrets track forward facing under pilot control isn't a big deal as that solo vs the same ship fully crewed will loose every single time due to the physical aspect of running a multi crew ship when engineering is in, having ships designed with it simply possible to solo crew beyond just the minimum wouldnt hurt those with more time/social skills ect as they would have faster repairs more flexibility from the ships weapons loading and unloading times support craft ect
They should not have too much power but... there is just not enough solo progression. Most progression in the game is about upgrading your ship and buying a bigger more capable ship, but what are you working towards as a solo player? A polaris? A redeemer? Most of what you work towards are multicrew ships...
Is it decided that solo player NPC/AI crewed ships going to outcompete player crewed ships though? That's quite an assumption. After what we can assume is additional years of alpha bugtesting, balancing, and reworks, there will be plenty more years to voice concerns and provide feedback on how CIG implements it all.
Your logic with the Zeus example is flawed. Even if the pilot has access to engineering, I have to take time away from my fight to change things. The definition of MFD is multi. Function. Display. Meaning you can reconfigure for whatever you need. CIG just needs to design ships with some realism. They took the forward turret from the Corsair from the pilot. But seriously, what ship designer is going to think it's not a good idea to give the turret to the pilot when it's empty. If the side guns on the paladin are slaved to the pilot when empty they can only shoot then forward. Having a crew adds a dimension you wouldn't have solo. So I partially agree with you. But saying I can't pull up engineering just because in a perfect world that would be another player is just neutering gameplay.
Why that makes no sense... not everyone has people to play with, thats why they are bringing ai blades and npc crews to hire.. everyone pledges and shouls have their opinions.. most people are gonna be solo
It should all be playable solo, but solo players definitely shouldn't have influence far enough beyond their scale to outperform multiple players in the same large vessels.
agreed. u shouldnt be as powerful as a solo but u should definitely be powerful enough. no reason to make someones experience worse because they dont wanna play with anyone else
Well i mean. not everyone has someone to play with. I think the focus on multicrew is important. but i also think that there should be more solo supporting ships.(also the big turret on the paladin should have the option to be pilot controllable... or any unmanned turret for that matter)
I'd like to respectfully disagree with you, in part. Right now, Star Citizen only markets new ships to solo players - I can't effectively share a ship with an organization; let alone purchase it as a group - so the customer of Star Citizen is the solo player. I think that Star Citizen needs to make larger ships at a minimum usable for Solo players (even if they continue to be better for multi-crew) or stop selling multi-crew focused ships to individuals in the first place as the action of selling and marketing a Polaris to me individually (as opposed to my organization if I had one) is setting the "unrealistic expectations" as you put it. When I purchased my current fleet, I was told this was something I can solo pilot and to me, to turn around and tell me now I can't use my ship is little more then false advertising... I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation, to me, it's delivering on the promise they made when they marketed the ship to me in the first place. I agree that Star Citizen should be more focused on finding groups to play with if it where like any other MMO, which launches on day 1 as a complete game, Star Citizen is different though because they've spent all these years happily taking my money, building up the solo player and it feels like betrayal to say "actually, that's not the direction we want to go" On another note, I love the videos, keep up the good work, and I hope your procedures go well!
Thank you for this point of view! I would have to agree that the way ships have been marketed over the past 12 years has been way too separated from how CIG wants the game to play. Overall the marketing of this project has been all over the place, especially in regard to solo and multi crew ships. Thank you for the comment and first procedure went well! 1 more to go!
The vast majority of players will play alone, multi-crew is something occasional, because each person has their life and you can't always coincide. You can't chain the game to a multi-crew game
Group play is very fun but coordinating it is very exhausting.. I enjoy it when it comes together. However, solo play is much easier to log on, game consistently, and make progress in a fun session. AKA the normal after work evening.
The biggest issue I have with engineering is having someone having to run around my ship while the pilot is performing evasive maneuvers. The engineer is constantly being thrown to the floor to chase fuses that need to be physically moved. As a technician for forty years, I can often reroute Features remotely. Even with recording software, you have this ability, with today's tech. Also the pilot should have access to all remote features from his chair, including remote turrets. I also believe that the pilot should have the ability to transfer all pilot functions to the co-pilot seat of his choice. The tedium is strong with this one...
My only issue when it comes to a specific ship is the Scorpius. I personally think that you should be able to man all 8 guns without the need for a second player. It’s a fragile ship that can easily be disarmed but has a lot of fire power which I think makes it balanced when between two skilled pilots. Ik they’re promising AI blades will do that later on but I think it’s obnoxious that the ship is basically half usable right now when they could make it so you could simply slew the weapons together similar to the two seater F7M
Star Citizen needs to recognize the importance of the basics. Party markers are inconsistent or non existent? Really? Crews can't bedlog in a capital ship? So yeah... CIG has some work to do.
Concern is whether there will ever be enough players and online to fill all these roles - be fine if we all lived on the game but most players will be casual
And a huge piece… no fast travel. You are 100% stuck where you are. Multiplayer only makes sense for very short engagements. Who is going to be an engineer on my carrack for a month while I log on once a week.
Multiplayer only works in short term scenarios. How many people are going to lock themselves to other people’s ships as their complete gameplay for weeks? It’s not like WoW or something where you can move freely and join up for things. In SC you are literally stuck where you are. You can’t do anything else.
Its also combined with the argument that big(implied good) ships being expensive in dollars is fine because "you can trade work time for game advance" "i don't have time to play 24/7" when they conceptually work only with hardcore players. Look the meta just isn't thought through, it can't both be and not be eve and rust and elite. The ships can't both be concrete in game assets and forever owned, it just can't work in practice for emerging simulation gameplay where a stowaway can shoot you in the head in the pilots seat - and while impromptu among us traitor hunting might seem like a fun emerging gameplay idea, it really isn't if you paid 1000 bucks to do military missions and needed some crew.
A lot…. 😂😂 if you’ve supported the development for more than 2 years you would know that it gets to a point where all you want to do is just be a crewman… Also, you can still get money, rep, upgrades by being a crewman.
@@lassikinnunen Based on what I’m seeing- it’s trending towards a massive world multiplayer with arcade style action. They’ll add economy and trading of some sort and crafting- all the MMO essentials. Ultimately I highly doubt there will be deep long term engaged gameplay. We’ll see.
@@Jeremy_Walker they've promised or half implemented all that. Also a lot more like base building and eve style org wars and all and rust style and people making plans for their deep space hideouts for their mining rigs that work in an economy but somehow are safe from attack and have value despite everyone doing them and...
Just allow public transport for your character while offline. Make it have time constraints and cost uec or something. This service should have additional restrictions on where you can transport yourself to. Biggest issue with working with others is just spending the time to meet up in LIVE.
Co-op is good in theory, it almost never works out for many of the reasons you stated. Find me someone who wants to push a button on an engineering terminal and do nothing else for a multi hour play session. In real life that is what low level soldiers do on air craft carriers and stuff. In a game environment that is not fun. There is no problem with the original gun control of the Corsair. Just make it so that small ships like corsair or connie or paladin, or starlancer cannot take down a polaris or idris without a couple dozen of them attacking it. But on the same side, a polaris or idris should not fly like a heavy fighter like they both do now. Capital ships should fly like the battlestar galactica. Super slow, only able to maneuver for a few shots on another super slow capital ship at long distances. They should require fighter cover to take out smaller ships. Corsair and Connie should be able to take on capital ships, but capital ships should quite easily land shots from the turrets on those types of ships. But those ships should be able to take down those turrets by targeting them. Leave the hull damage to the capital ship sized weapons.
I mean clearly you are, even if you're only there to shoot at other players. Otherwise you wouldn't have gone for the fundamentally multiplayer game. That said, the important thing is still that solo players have options, that they can play in ways they enjoy, but that they don't have an outsized influence that eclipses whole groups of players. The game will absolutely die if they do.
Ok so play the solo stuff, if you think the game should make you do everything because "you don't like others" then go play a single player game not an MMO
An analogy would be: You start an MMO. You can play to lvl 10 in the first zone. Outside this first zone, you have open world PvPvE, but all monsters are scaled to to a balanced 4 person party. I doubt you'd have a lot of player retention. Maybe some PvPers would stay, and ignore the PvE part. But the vast playerbase that wants to experience the game past the starting zone would leave for something that gives them what they want.
CIG has already stated that there WILL be NPC engineers that will help man stations in a ship. Im pretty sure they said that youd have ti pay them like real people AND that they wouldnt be as good as real people. I dont take that to mean sub-par, rather just intentionally predictable - like AI. I am a solo player myself. 80% of ALL MMOs are solo players. But that doesnt mean CIG should cater to solo players. I WANT the Paladin, but I dont biy it because as much as I'd love to have a dropship, I dont have a group.
Nope. CIG needs to (A) make ships and gameplay function sensibly and realistically, with or without other people/players, be that through AI "blades" or NPC crew, then (B) ensure playing together is FUN and those that can and want to will with exactly ZERO need to "play-wall" functionality or content from solo players..... There are already multiple examples of CIG trying to FORCE stupid and unnecessary "multicrew" into the game ("manned" turrets in general, ROC-DS, Scrotius Antares, Ballista/Centurian, Terrapin, Corsair, Intrepid, etc) that backers have already deemed NPC/blade only jobs because we know full well no human player will do it... Manning a wimpy turret with less power that most starter ships, or sitting in some other random "backseat" pressing a couple buttons every few minutes is not fun or engaging. That's why they must have reasonably competant AI/NPC alternatives otherwise it Just Won't Happen at all. Those ships will sit unused and pointless, game loops will be ignored, and large swaths of content avoided entirely. Star Citizen's AI and NPCs will be able to functionally replace human players in basically any circumstance because if they cannot, the game will either be derpy, lifeless, and boring OR it will become a giant org only, join us or die gank-fest.
SC is mainly a solo game, period. How many players do you see standing around doing nothing? How many players do you usually see on a ship? You can project all you want about what you think CIG is doing but its not actually trying to get humans to play with other humans in regards to large ships. This wont happen until they stop selling ships and that wont ever happen. See, SC has a people problem, not a ship problem. EVERYONE in SC has a ship, and most people that PAID their hard earned cash for that ship want to fly that ship, not spend time on someone else's ship running around putting out fires or staring at an engineering terminal. This is exactly why CIG is pushing for NPC crew and AI blades. And they know this. If CIG truly wanted multi human crewed ships then CIG would sell game packages w/o a ship.
I think that's coming in 1.0. Game packages without ships. I'd go as far as to say that that particular game package will be free. A free-to-play player will start with about 5,000 Euc and a basic set of clothes. They will be relegated to local "in-city" missions like local couriers or janitors. Picking up trash. Soon enough, they can rent a vehicle and do some missions around the city or at a closer outpost. After that, they can afford to buy their first ship and expand their horizons. Or they can sign on to another player's ship and skip all the local stuff. Alternatively, they can visit the pledge/ship store and fork out some real money for a permanent ship, as all the backers did during its alpha phase.
I'm a solo player and a Constellation owner, and I totally agree with you. It seems they are going for a Sea of Thieves vibe. It may be possible to solo a large ship, but it is more challenging, and repealing an opposing team from boarding you, the solo pirate, is next to impossible. There are definitive risks associated with taking out a large ship solo in the Sea of Thieves. CIG is going in that direction but isn't there yet. I couldn't imagine leaving the pilot's chair to replace a shield generator or blown fuses at the back of the ship. And I'm also guessing that AI blades won't be nearly as good as a human crew. If they are better than a human crew, multiplayer is dead in Star Citizen.
I agree 100%. Once ai blades and npc crew are in, they can be easily balanced so the multi crew game play is still stronger while giving solo players an overall great experience as well.
I understand your concern, but every weaponized ship should have pilot controlled guns. My favorite ship is the Retaliator and I cannot effectively play it unless I have atleast 2 other friends to crew turrets.
Money is power. That is just a reality. If CIG wants to deny themselves revenue from people with disposable money then pigeon hole solo players. Orgs are great if you have the time but person for person solo players spend more money on the game and for that revenue those players should have full access to the game. Those are the cold hard facts and why CIG allows individuals to buy whatever ships they want.
Ship balancing is horrible. Multi crew is always worse then each player haveing there own ship . Combat 3 pilots always give u more dps and normally speed and speed wins fights . In mining it’s better to have 3 prospectors then 1 mole . If you put prospectors bag on all 3 moles you get more cargo and the pilot gets to mine without getting up . Salvage is the only gameplay iv done where having 1-2 friends is better with the reclaimer .
Multiplayer game and multicrew game is complitely 2 diffrent gemes and when you say multiplayer it not means you have to play in one ship all together. Thats why they offer NPC crew and all those old backers who bought this big ships because they promise NPC crew. Now you wanna tell all of us no, you not gonna play solo? Who the hell are you?? You think you can come in game buy starter package and dictate all old backers who sped money and supported this game to this lvl how to play the game?? Dont take too mutch on yourself ok ?? Maybe you will refound me my money i spent on this game because i knew i will crew my ships with NPCs? I dont think so, so shut up and dont spread you stupid vision how this game gonna be played its just your stupid opinion and nothing else.
I normally prefer to play solo too, but at the same time, im aware this game was conceived to be focused in multiplayer. But i know they are looking for our style of playing solo with kindness.
I think it's best just to see who's usually on when you are. Multicrew is an essential part of an MMO, even if a player is usually solo. There needs to be a push for players to find a play group.
And for the record, I'm normally solo, and my fleet reflects that. A lot of single pilot efficient ships, but a couple big multicrew ships for when groups are feasible.
Why shouldn’t solo have more power. You’re restricting game play. Solo play should be able to get there money back. If you want group play only, the truth is that a small niche play . Facts show this to be true.
There are solo ship for solo players. They are then efficient. There are multicrew ships for groups of players, they are then efficient. If a solo guy wants to fly a multi crew ship, it is possible but it will not be efficient. That's simple. Not every ships for any size of group. That's not a problem. the game will still be fun.
Respectfully disagree, this game is already slow enough without having to rely on others to complete basic parts of the game. I understand that group play will be heavily recommended for some tougher missions or massive industrial aspects etc. But I simply can't spend the extra hours it takes organizing players to complete mundane tasks, I'm not a streamer and don't have 8 hours to game everyday.
I am a solo player and am only here for solo play because my life schedule simply does not make group play workable. My expectation is based on the statements made in 2013 when i signed up that NPC's would eventually be available. This will be the only way that SC will be ultimately be successful.
I'm a longtime backer, and I own a few multi-crew ships, with the expectation that at one point, CGI would bring AI blade and NPC players(Only AI for 1.0 ), as they have mentioned on many occasions. I'm a solo player for a reason mentioned in your video and in some of the comments. As a solo player, I understand the restriction of soloing my multi-crew ship. CGI has sold many multi-crew ships and some orgs, own a crazy number of them that need crewing. It's not reasonable to expect people online and available at all times to crew all those ships. The solution was always NPCs and AI blades with the understanding that NPCs should be less capable than a couple of friends. CGI is an MMO true, but the reality is sometimes I want to be the cpt of my Polaris while my friend is cpt of his Polaris. We need NPCs
Imagine any MMO that focuses on group play. Only raids in world of warcraft. Solo play makes 70-90% of every MMO game. Trying to focus on Groups is a guarantee for failure. Sure there are people that prefer it, but they are a minority. So if you want to have 200k players instead of 10 millions then go for group gameplay and screw soli players.
While you may more fire power, you're still taking damage. Systems go offline, fires start, etc. The puppet ship has more hands and at a drop of firepower they can have someone that can deal with the damage. As a solo player you cannot. It is a bigger risk to fight, it will be all or nothing. IMO solo players in combat vs a crewed ship of the same type will be at a disadvantage.
I agree that multi crew ships should hold more power than solo ships, it just makes sense. More guns in the fight, more dps. All my pledges are ships that can be solo or multi crew. Hurricane, mole, vulture, MSR. I’m less efficient if I play alone, and that’s ok with me but if I wanna play with others I’m happy to be able to that. That being said, a solo player should be able to compete with crew ships. An arrow shouldnt lose to a hurricane just because it’s multi crew and I think they do a pretty good job of that right now. Now should an arrow take on a hammerhead? I mean I guess it can but there are times where it’s like yeah, pick your battles, the arrow should flee. You don’t fight a destroyer in a sailboat.
I play solo and the largest ship I own is a reclaimer. Easy to solo if I'm just out salvaging and not using it for combat. I just put all power to shields and hope for the best 😊😂
I think a lot of multi crew proponents have unrealistic expectations. Expecting a crewed ship to be able to solo the entire game is just as unrealistic as expecting to solo the whole game as a single player. The endgame experience in Star Citizen is about fleets of complementary ship types working together towards specific goals. Simply occupying seats in a big ship doesn't and shouldn't automatically be effective. Training, discipline and experience are the determining factors for success. There is already value in properly crewing ships (salvaging in Reclaimers, mining in a Moles or doing security in a Hammerhead). Hard limiting certain ship types or gating content is not the answer. Skill and co operation are where it's at.
Right now playing in a group can be very tedious. More players more bugs to find work around. When/ if they get the game running better group play will be a lot more fun.
I just want my Engineering Manual for Modders that sitting in my hanger that I paid for to be honored so I can do my own thing and not hinder the verse by my crippling desire to play solo.
I bet more space dads would play multicrew if it wasnt a minimum 2 hour time sink. If CIG adds better spawn in with friends/org mates/or matchmaking then multicrew wouldnt be such a barrier for most people, particularly the average busy person, who is not a content creator.
I highly disagree with you and think you fundamentally misunderstand how ballance should be acheived, what systems already exist to ensure ballance promotes multicrew gameplay, and what features soon to come online already highly incentivise multicrew play. Solo play should be given all the tools possible, and artificial restrictions on solo capabilities is NOT an effective or fun way to ballance solo vs multicrew effectivness. Your zero-sum mentality of "if solo players are powerful it takes away from multicrew players being powerful" comes off as poorly considered and, frankly, just selfish and mean. As someone who rarely plays solo anyway, i dont even have a true dog in the solo-play race. I just totally disagree that people who prefer solo play should be "gamified" into artificial restrictions on play to benefit us multicrew players, or lock off entire parts of the game from them. Your Zeus example is also just not accurate. Even with MFD accessible engineering monitors, you do not have the ability to effect repairs, move components and fuses, nor modify hardware. Tney have also confirmed that AI blades and NPC crew will under perform compared to skilled players, meaning that even access to these systems do not fully bridge the gap and eclipse multicrew capabilities. You have not engaged with your example in good faith, or at least your engagment failed to consider CIG stated goals and intentions and planned features. All that, and i havent even mentioned PvP, endgame content and raids, Capital and fleet engagment, difficulty varriances, and orgs. There are so many aspects you havent addressed (to my satisfaction at least) in this video. I appreciate your perspective, and hope this engagment helps your video to suceed so the conversation can continue. I dont think this is where your opinion will end up, but if i am wrong, i look forward to hearing your counter arguments.
@@ParagonFangXen hello! Thank you for your comment and your perspective. First off I do want to mention that the most of what I am talking about here is referring to 1.0, and how that version of the game will act. I don’t believe any solo player should lose any tools or abilities simply because they play solo. In this video what I really am trying to do is emphasize that all players should have a chance regardless of play style. Multi crew should have its pros and cons, and solo should as well. I think it really comes down to the game SC is trying to be. I am not a game dev by any means, and I have no idea how difficult it might be to balance these two different play styles. But I’m advocating for a healthy balance between the two play styles whilst they each offer a certain value to the player. This means no matter who you decided to play with when you hop on, you can still have a fun experience regardless of if you play with people or not. Also the Zeus examples is flawed. I know that the actual “buffs” given to the solo player in that example are flawed and inconsistent. But the example was more about offering the perspective of seeing a solo player with a bit more power than they normally would in game. I think I could speak on for a while as to what I mean with all of this video (and honestly I have been very busy and stressed, so if this video isn’t the easiest to understand that is my fault entirely) but I am just another citizen with an opinion! Thank you for your comment!
Argument against having pilot controlled weapons of big ships: - Too much DPS per Player will make the ship unbalanced and negate the need to have other players on the ship in the first place. Counterarguement: - Pilot controlled weapons can only fire where the pilot points the nose. Big ships can't steer quickly so pilots will always have an issue acquiring and hitting targets. - Turrets manned by crew can aim their guns better and more quickly than the pilot so large ships with multiple crew members will always be more effective than flying them alone. - 2 ships with 1 pilot each that can output 100k dps but only have a 1% hit rate are less effective than a single ship with 2 crew that has a 20% hit rate. There is literally no downside to letting the pilot control extra guns when they're short on crew. Opponents in small ships will be able to easily dodge the incoming fire and opponents with more crew will be able to more effectively apply damage. Therefore, solo pilots should be able to control at least SOME of the guns on every shiip.
the issue of solo + NPC is that why do ppl multicrew ship at all when they can just use NPC? 8 polarises + NPC is way too stronger then one multicrew polaris. And why use single seat ships then if every1 can use capital ship solo? solo players should use solo ships or soloing bigger ships with limitation that goes with it.
tbh. its better. that we have option for making public group that anybody can join and leave at anytime. si Comm tabs they should make like Create group for lets say. Bunker looting, ERT, Salvaging etc etc so people can voluntary join this public group. after the group filled necessary for the task or mission. then they can lock the group. so any intruder cant do any crap to the group. I just dont like must active in Global chat. that tell people to join my ship. I prefer passive model. let me create the group. set the task, set the reward joining my group, and can set mic audio, etc etc
ai and npc crew is the future and i know for a fact thats where cig is leaning because u need to realise u have those big capital ships that require 20-30 even more and servers are a big problem the fix IS the ai crew its simpler to add some instant ai than tens of players .basically u will fly a javelin with 3 players easily . AI controlling turrets and the other players idk firing torps repairing managing the ship
They needed solo and group play, a turret for a big capital ship only holds 12 shot per weapon for a size 4 or 3 weapon and is the same for any solo ships as well. They have made combat slower and way more lame than it used to be, they need to bring back the fun combat as it was before, master modes for flying is fine by me but the combat has been ranked and is terrible imo
They even just needed a solo specific ship the ares inferno where it will not be able to shoot and kill a sub cap or capital ship at all with the new updated 77 shots before it over heats and needs to cool down. When a real life gatling gun from my understanding you want to unload pretty much all of the ammo you have because shooting a little bit and then stopping then shooting again ruins the gun, and I thought they were going for realistic
Just as a single seater ship CAN'T be crewed by a large crew, so should multicrew ships not be fully functional by a solo crew. You choose your gameplay when you buy the ship, that was your choice. There is plenty of solo gameplay without using multi-crew ships, FORCED to be solo playable should not be a thing. Squadron 42 is a single player game. Star citizen is a multiplayer game.
The vast majority of backers don’t want forced multicrew and so the game shouldn’t force multicrew. It’s that simple. Design a game for 5% of the player base and you’ll end up with 5% of the current player base active in game playing. When designing multicrew they need to take the approach where multicrew is more fun, not the approach where not multicrewing is a torturous experience (unfortunately the current projected direction). I personally think engineering will make this game unbearable for the vast majority of players on release and its effects will have to be greatly nerfed for this game to thrive. Gimping the solo experience to give multicrew the perception of being good will do nothing except piss off solo players. It won’t encourage them to multicrew, it will convince them to find a game that doesn’t actively hinder the experiences they want to have. When playing planetside 2 (even solo) finding gunners for my ship / land vehicle was easy, just park up and people would flock to me. This isn’t unique to Planetside but every game I can think of that allows for multiple people in vehicles. Everyone wants a lift, everyone wants to be a gunner because that experience is fun. Star citizen doesn’t have that feel, and I’m not even sure why but that’s what the developers need to address and gimping the solo experience isn’t the correct method. That’s just making the game worse, and operator modes with a top speed of 200, along with forced multicrew will cause this game to fail if the approach doesn’t change. The aim of immersion in a video game is to simulate the enjoyable moments of real life, not the boring ones. In many ways CIG doesn’t seem to realise this and believes simulating boring experiences is as valid as simulating entertaining experiences, it isn’t. I don’t need the travel time of my ship from one station to another to be an hour for “immersion”, that’s the type of immersion I can do without. Same way I don’t want to wait 30 minutes for my taxi in GTA on a Saturday night. Or not be able to play the game for 3 months because my character is doing a bid.
Solo is already way too time consuming, group play is like wasting 4 hours in real life just to go have a meal together…. Some people enjoy that, but some of us DO NOT.
Its hopeless man, this community has a lot of cry babies, all they think about is themselves and not the longevity of the game, which is why they will never give an objective counter arguments but only emotional
That sounds like an emotional response. Lol. CIG has a lot of balancing to do, it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. If you spent $900 on a polaris, and your an anti social individual i think you should be able to have ways to operate the ship without "real" people. For example, having NPC and depending on there skill level dictates how big of a percentage they should take. Since a mutiplayer crew needs to split the funds a solo should be forced to do the same with there NPC. I wish CIG luck in balancing all these different ships and game play types, hopefully they lean away from balancing for the market team and more for the actual game experience.
Apologies if i offended you with the first comment (emotional reponse on my part), I just think complaining about people crying is more of an emotional response instead of actually debating the issues. We have to keep complaing so CIG can weed out the chaff from our grain.
@@Schooterl already debated people on the issue but all I got is weak arguments, just like what you just said "spent 900$ on polaris and anti social so you should be able to operate the ship without real people" This is an mmo, meaning the world doesn't just revolve around you, ok you be anti social and buy all the capital ships you want, why do you have to be able to dominate the galaxy with it? How about the people who didn't send 900$? What will happen when pvp between big orgs start? Do they bring couple of polarises/ hammerheads/ fighters or just straight up bring 50 polarises? Again most people that cry about solo play are only doing it to satisfy thier lust for power without thinking about the game or other people in the verse, definitely need balancing i agree
@corvoadam5598 "Anti social" was the wrong choice of words on my part, and you're right. A solo player shouldn't be able to dominate everyone, that's not what I'm saying. CIG makes money by selling ships, give those individuals who want to spend $900 on a polaris a way to operate that ship as a solo player (that's more money for CIG to bring this game forward). Even if that solo player fills his ship with NPC to operate turrets, I can't see them being able to beat a fully crewed polaris of real people. Have you seen Star Citizens NPC? Half of that Solo player's paid NPC are going to be doing Jesus' poses on the benches. Yes, they will make it challenging having filled up the turret slots, but if CIG balances this right, my friends and I should be able to do better repairs as the fight wages on. This is why I love the Idea of engineering and whatnot in Star Citizen. The game becomes more than just point and shoot. Really, all I'm saying is I like having lots of options, that being said, you won't see me flying a polaris by myself. If someone has a polaris filled with balanced NPC, I say challenge accepted.
@corvoadam5598 I see what your saying with the 50 polaris, but that goes back into how CIG balances everything. Whether that be restricting the amount of NPC you can hire, not allowing NPC to fly capital ships. There's always a solution, and I'm not talking solutions like the Corsair nerf. That's just lazy. Lol.
I think it is dishonest to say that you flying a zeus alone is going to beat a crewed zeus. You can only aim your guns ahead, even if you get the turret slaved to your pilot pipper. You could get hit in the power plant after jousting past each other because the crewed zeus can shoot you from the turret. Then you have to get out of your seat to put out a fire even though you were able to use your engineering MFD, while not focusing on the combat of course, to reroute the power you are losing. You just claimed a solo zeus could take out a crewed zeus with zero reasoning, just stated it like it was a known fact. You have a ship that has not had its guns removed from the pilot and given to a copilot who already had control of guns. What if one of the zeus copilot seats had control of pushing the fire button for your right pilot gun? Corsair chin guns are not on a turret. They fire forward just like the guns on the zeus. Zeus is also much more agile than the corsair.
It is my opinion that the biggest issue is that CIG introduced big ships with pilot controlled guns to begin with. Big ships should have the majority of their firepower from turrets and gunners, not the pilot. In fact, i would like to see CIG do a complete flip of guns on big ships... the pilot gets the size 2 turret guns.. if that... and the turrets gets the S4+ guns that used to be pilot controlled. I will never understand people that go to a multicrew-/multiplayer centric game but still expecting to get all the benefits of having a crew while flying solo.
Multi-crew is the way. While I am totally against NPC crews, I can see the other side of the argument. NPC crews need to be poor substitutes for real people. SC is already borderline pay to win. NPC crews which are just as good as players will make the game full pay to win. Personally I would go with ONE NPC per player.
What solo players need to realize is that most griefers are anti-social and therefore solo players too. So stop asking for more powerful ships to defend yourselves from griefers, you're literally asking for what you don't want.
Solo is already way too time consuming, group play is like wasting 4 hours in real life just to go have a meal together…. Some people enjoy that, but some of us DO NOT.
The aspect you haven't acknowledged is that there are solo players that just want to be left the F alone but we haven't been given any tools to make that a reality. The tragedy is that the same tools that would allow the solo player to get himself out of a griefing situation can also be used by the griefer to keep from being held accountable for being a AH as well and there's the rub. I have many large multi-crew ships in my inventory but will only ever scratch the surface of their capabilities because I will only use a portion of what they have to offer. CIG said at one time that we were going to be able to hire an NPC crew to fill crew slots, I haven't seen any progress being made toward that end.
@@Leavon whats the point of paying for ships and ganging if you'd just be fighting even fights? Could have those just in any ship in the game.
Npc crews are not being added to after 1.0 but we will get AI blades for turrets.
I've been here since very early 2013, and I do remember that from the very beginning, they said the game would cater to everyone, but there would be tradeoffs. No matter which play style you choose, there will be pros and cons. In some ways, playing with large orgs will be fun, and in other ways, no so much. In some ways, playing solo will be fun, but in other ways, not so much.
There are things I remember them promising.
1. There will be areas that are much safe/safer but the rewards will be less lucrative. That's more than fair. If you want to avoid PvP, you can stay in those areas. The reason the unsafe areas have to be more lucrative is to make up for your losses. Also, sure there may be better resources to gain there, but if you aren't doing PvP, is that going to be critical to have? I don't think so. Also, there will be other mechanisms to cause random ganking to be less of a thing. Fixing ships won't be as cheap. Resupplying ammo and fuel won't be as cheap. So going after solo players simply won't be worth the time of a PvP oriented Org.
2. Solo in a large ship with NPC crew will not be as good as having player crew.
3. You can affiliate with many orgs to facilitate having more friends to play with, without being 100% committed to that Org.
4. Playing solo will be possible, but not the best way to experience everything. It's meant to be played with others.
5. I've never had a hard time making friends in a game.
If you like to play with others, but don't want something rigid, join something like TEST Squadron. Or, you can search for a smaller, more casual org to play with. Once again, since you can affiliate with many orgs, it gives you the ability to play with several orgs to find one that fits you. Remove an org when you realize they aren't a great fit.
Solo players are the financial backbone of all MMO's
Yep, this aint no EvE O, IT IS Star Citizen!
More like easy prey. :D
for all ya solo players, we making an org around having a planetary city, allowing people to do whatever they like and get a house in our [to come] city, we doing this so that soloplayers that are not interested in base building on itself can still have a little home while being close to refinery's and hangers and so on.
That's cool but which org?
@4tonmike FIXIT, but right now we ain't nothing serious just wanted to share our idea atm we only got like 15 people with 3 actively playing sc atm :P but if base building is out! Feel free to visit our base!
@Doryli_vr If you guys are still around come the org rework and when new UI drops, I'd like to help implement that vision
@@AeyLaen great! I hope with org rework and how base building in the way of making buildings private and etc will hopefully support this idea of ours, i think many may appreciate it in the long run. So if you want to help you're always free to join us! We don't mind if you have a 2nd org
Trying to do group play in this game is harder than trying to have a consistent DND campaign. Everyone's schedules are different. The randoms i played with during the SSP3 mission I haven't seen again. We all have our own way to play, our own loops. Even in chat when you ask someone to join your reclaimer to do some salvaging a lot of people say no they are dining their own thing. That's why I think CIG should make a single seater maybe a two seater ship that's an upgrade of the vulture and prospector. The Mole is doable solo just kind of a hassle and the reclaimer is unbearable.
This, it is great fun to play with my org mate, but it's like paddling upstream, very tedious and time consuming, by the time we get going someone has to go
I agree with you that solo players should be able to engage in all of the game loops and I think it's arrogant to believe that one human (even with the assistance of AI blades or NPCs) should be as productive as 3 humans. I fly a MSR solo (irregular playtimes that rarely last more than 30 minutes) and I'd love to have someone man the turrets but very few players are willing to just do a single cargo run before I have to log off. Because of that I'm looking forward to AI blades and NPCs. However, I am under no misconception that my ship will ever be as efficient or as productive as a MSR with three humans in it. Not everyone gets to be the main character and I wish that more people in our world understood that.
Group play on a erratic schedule like some people have myself included just isn't possible
I resigned myself to the fact that I will never own or operate anything that's not solo friendly.
I hope they don't dilute the system in order to entice people into purchasing the bigger ships
They've set a standard I am absolutely fine with it just stay with it
I agree as a whole however as a primarily solo player I would like to see some larger/more capable/or more luxurious single or 2 crew ships as something to move up into beyond a starter or fighter
allowing a solo to have remote turrets track forward facing under pilot control isn't a big deal as that solo vs the same ship fully crewed will loose every single time due to the physical aspect of running a multi crew ship when engineering is in, having ships designed with it simply possible to solo crew beyond just the minimum wouldnt hurt those with more time/social skills ect as they would have faster repairs more flexibility from the ships weapons loading and unloading times support craft ect
Group play is too time consuming, solo all the way.
I agree, and its why they wanna ad AI crew. So those Solo players that wanna play with 3-4 man ships can do so
Thats cap, me and my 3 friends play all the time and its easy, also we met inside the game so the "i don't have friends" excuse won't work
Group play is how the game is meant to be played tbh. Joining an org and multicrew gameplay is like getting into a new game.
They should not have too much power but... there is just not enough solo progression. Most progression in the game is about upgrading your ship and buying a bigger more capable ship, but what are you working towards as a solo player? A polaris? A redeemer? Most of what you work towards are multicrew ships...
@@GrimGatsby that would alienate 80% of the playerbase. How many of the players and ships you come accross today are only crewed by like.. one guy?
Group play takes longer to get people in the same place at the same time than actually playing the game.
Is it decided that solo player NPC/AI crewed ships going to outcompete player crewed ships though?
That's quite an assumption. After what we can assume is additional years of alpha bugtesting, balancing, and reworks, there will be plenty more years to voice concerns and provide feedback on how CIG implements it all.
Your logic with the Zeus example is flawed. Even if the pilot has access to engineering, I have to take time away from my fight to change things. The definition of MFD is multi. Function. Display. Meaning you can reconfigure for whatever you need.
CIG just needs to design ships with some realism. They took the forward turret from the Corsair from the pilot. But seriously, what ship designer is going to think it's not a good idea to give the turret to the pilot when it's empty. If the side guns on the paladin are slaved to the pilot when empty they can only shoot then forward. Having a crew adds a dimension you wouldn't have solo.
So I partially agree with you. But saying I can't pull up engineering just because in a perfect world that would be another player is just neutering gameplay.
Why that makes no sense... not everyone has people to play with, thats why they are bringing ai blades and npc crews to hire.. everyone pledges and shouls have their opinions.. most people are gonna be solo
It should all be playable solo, but solo players definitely shouldn't have influence far enough beyond their scale to outperform multiple players in the same large vessels.
agreed. u shouldnt be as powerful as a solo but u should definitely be powerful enough. no reason to make someones experience worse because they dont wanna play with anyone else
Well i mean. not everyone has someone to play with. I think the focus on multicrew is important. but i also think that there should be more solo supporting ships.(also the big turret on the paladin should have the option to be pilot controllable... or any unmanned turret for that matter)
As if everyone is salivating at the prospect of being a janitor on an Idris.
Group play is nice, but stop gatekeeping please ❤
I think solo players should play how ever they want. They are going to be slower even with ai helping. Slower then any full crewed ship.
I'm a solo player but I know what I can an can't fly
You mean like a Solo Ship with a S7 Gun?
Let's put it a simple way. If you don't have a way for solo players to evenly match a big group of people, the game dies. Simple.
I'd like to respectfully disagree with you, in part. Right now, Star Citizen only markets new ships to solo players - I can't effectively share a ship with an organization; let alone purchase it as a group - so the customer of Star Citizen is the solo player. I think that Star Citizen needs to make larger ships at a minimum usable for Solo players (even if they continue to be better for multi-crew) or stop selling multi-crew focused ships to individuals in the first place as the action of selling and marketing a Polaris to me individually (as opposed to my organization if I had one) is setting the "unrealistic expectations" as you put it. When I purchased my current fleet, I was told this was something I can solo pilot and to me, to turn around and tell me now I can't use my ship is little more then false advertising... I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation, to me, it's delivering on the promise they made when they marketed the ship to me in the first place. I agree that Star Citizen should be more focused on finding groups to play with if it where like any other MMO, which launches on day 1 as a complete game, Star Citizen is different though because they've spent all these years happily taking my money, building up the solo player and it feels like betrayal to say "actually, that's not the direction we want to go"
On another note, I love the videos, keep up the good work, and I hope your procedures go well!
Thank you for this point of view! I would have to agree that the way ships have been marketed over the past 12 years has been way too separated from how CIG wants the game to play. Overall the marketing of this project has been all over the place, especially in regard to solo and multi crew ships. Thank you for the comment and first procedure went well! 1 more to go!
The vast majority of players will play alone, multi-crew is something occasional, because each person has their life and you can't always coincide.
You can't chain the game to a multi-crew game
Group play is very fun but coordinating it is very exhausting.. I enjoy it when it comes together. However, solo play is much easier to log on, game consistently, and make progress in a fun session. AKA the normal after work evening.
The biggest issue I have with engineering is having someone having to run around my ship while the pilot is performing evasive maneuvers. The engineer is constantly being thrown to the floor to chase fuses that need to be physically moved. As a technician for forty years, I can often reroute Features remotely. Even with recording software, you have this ability, with today's tech. Also the pilot should have access to all remote features from his chair, including remote turrets. I also believe that the pilot should have the ability to transfer all pilot functions to the co-pilot seat of his choice.
The tedium is strong with this one...
My only issue when it comes to a specific ship is the Scorpius. I personally think that you should be able to man all 8 guns without the need for a second player. It’s a fragile ship that can easily be disarmed but has a lot of fire power which I think makes it balanced when between two skilled pilots. Ik they’re promising AI blades will do that later on but I think it’s obnoxious that the ship is basically half usable right now when they could make it so you could simply slew the weapons together similar to the two seater F7M
Star Citizen needs to recognize the importance of the basics.
Party markers are inconsistent or non existent? Really?
Crews can't bedlog in a capital ship?
So yeah... CIG has some work to do.
Concern is whether there will ever be enough players and online to fill all these roles - be fine if we all lived on the game but most players will be casual
And a huge piece… no fast travel. You are 100% stuck where you are. Multiplayer only makes sense for very short engagements. Who is going to be an engineer on my carrack for a month while I log on once a week.
Multiplayer only works in short term scenarios. How many people are going to lock themselves to other people’s ships as their complete gameplay for weeks? It’s not like WoW or something where you can move freely and join up for things. In SC you are literally stuck where you are. You can’t do anything else.
Its also combined with the argument that big(implied good) ships being expensive in dollars is fine because "you can trade work time for game advance" "i don't have time to play 24/7" when they conceptually work only with hardcore players.
Look the meta just isn't thought through, it can't both be and not be eve and rust and elite. The ships can't both be concrete in game assets and forever owned, it just can't work in practice for emerging simulation gameplay where a stowaway can shoot you in the head in the pilots seat - and while impromptu among us traitor hunting might seem like a fun emerging gameplay idea, it really isn't if you paid 1000 bucks to do military missions and needed some crew.
A lot…. 😂😂 if you’ve supported the development for more than 2 years you would know that it gets to a point where all you want to do is just be a crewman…
Also, you can still get money, rep, upgrades by being a crewman.
@@Unmethicated How does that work if your friends can’t log on for a day or two? You are stuck on the ship by yourself.
@@lassikinnunen Based on what I’m seeing- it’s trending towards a massive world multiplayer with arcade style action. They’ll add economy and trading of some sort and crafting- all the MMO essentials. Ultimately I highly doubt there will be deep long term engaged gameplay. We’ll see.
@@Jeremy_Walker they've promised or half implemented all that.
Also a lot more like base building and eve style org wars and all and rust style and people making plans for their deep space hideouts for their mining rigs that work in an economy but somehow are safe from attack and have value despite everyone doing them and...
Just allow public transport for your character while offline. Make it have time constraints and cost uec or something. This service should have additional restrictions on where you can transport yourself to.
Biggest issue with working with others is just spending the time to meet up in LIVE.
Co-op is good in theory, it almost never works out for many of the reasons you stated. Find me someone who wants to push a button on an engineering terminal and do nothing else for a multi hour play session. In real life that is what low level soldiers do on air craft carriers and stuff. In a game environment that is not fun. There is no problem with the original gun control of the Corsair. Just make it so that small ships like corsair or connie or paladin, or starlancer cannot take down a polaris or idris without a couple dozen of them attacking it. But on the same side, a polaris or idris should not fly like a heavy fighter like they both do now. Capital ships should fly like the battlestar galactica. Super slow, only able to maneuver for a few shots on another super slow capital ship at long distances. They should require fighter cover to take out smaller ships. Corsair and Connie should be able to take on capital ships, but capital ships should quite easily land shots from the turrets on those types of ships. But those ships should be able to take down those turrets by targeting them. Leave the hull damage to the capital ship sized weapons.
Solo is the way to go. Star Citizen will loose players if they make it harder for solo players. I'm not interested in playing with other individuals.
I mean clearly you are, even if you're only there to shoot at other players. Otherwise you wouldn't have gone for the fundamentally multiplayer game.
That said, the important thing is still that solo players have options, that they can play in ways they enjoy, but that they don't have an outsized influence that eclipses whole groups of players. The game will absolutely die if they do.
Ok so play the solo stuff, if you think the game should make you do everything because "you don't like others" then go play a single player game not an MMO
Long live the Polaris and solo gameplay.
An analogy would be: You start an MMO. You can play to lvl 10 in the first zone. Outside this first zone, you have open world PvPvE, but all monsters are scaled to to a balanced 4 person party. I doubt you'd have a lot of player retention. Maybe some PvPers would stay, and ignore the PvE part. But the vast playerbase that wants to experience the game past the starting zone would leave for something that gives them what they want.
@@ottodeluxe exactemundo!
CIG has already stated that there WILL be NPC engineers that will help man stations in a ship. Im pretty sure they said that youd have ti pay them like real people AND that they wouldnt be as good as real people. I dont take that to mean sub-par, rather just intentionally predictable - like AI.
I am a solo player myself. 80% of ALL MMOs are solo players. But that doesnt mean CIG should cater to solo players. I WANT the Paladin, but I dont biy it because as much as I'd love to have a dropship, I dont have a group.
Nope. CIG needs to (A) make ships and gameplay function sensibly and realistically, with or without other people/players, be that through AI "blades" or NPC crew, then (B) ensure playing together is FUN and those that can and want to will with exactly ZERO need to "play-wall" functionality or content from solo players.....
There are already multiple examples of CIG trying to FORCE stupid and unnecessary "multicrew" into the game ("manned" turrets in general, ROC-DS, Scrotius Antares, Ballista/Centurian, Terrapin, Corsair, Intrepid, etc) that backers have already deemed NPC/blade only jobs because we know full well no human player will do it... Manning a wimpy turret with less power that most starter ships, or sitting in some other random "backseat" pressing a couple buttons every few minutes is not fun or engaging. That's why they must have reasonably competant AI/NPC alternatives otherwise it Just Won't Happen at all. Those ships will sit unused and pointless, game loops will be ignored, and large swaths of content avoided entirely.
Star Citizen's AI and NPCs will be able to functionally replace human players in basically any circumstance because if they cannot, the game will either be derpy, lifeless, and boring OR it will become a giant org only, join us or die gank-fest.
All ships should have some pilot controlled weapons. Anything else is unacceptable.
SC is mainly a solo game, period. How many players do you see standing around doing nothing? How many players do you usually see on a ship? You can project all you want about what you think CIG is doing but its not actually trying to get humans to play with other humans in regards to large ships. This wont happen until they stop selling ships and that wont ever happen. See, SC has a people problem, not a ship problem. EVERYONE in SC has a ship, and most people that PAID their hard earned cash for that ship want to fly that ship, not spend time on someone else's ship running around putting out fires or staring at an engineering terminal. This is exactly why CIG is pushing for NPC crew and AI blades. And they know this. If CIG truly wanted multi human crewed ships then CIG would sell game packages w/o a ship.
I think that's coming in 1.0. Game packages without ships. I'd go as far as to say that that particular game package will be free. A free-to-play player will start with about 5,000 Euc and a basic set of clothes. They will be relegated to local "in-city" missions like local couriers or janitors. Picking up trash. Soon enough, they can rent a vehicle and do some missions around the city or at a closer outpost. After that, they can afford to buy their first ship and expand their horizons. Or they can sign on to another player's ship and skip all the local stuff. Alternatively, they can visit the pledge/ship store and fork out some real money for a permanent ship, as all the backers did during its alpha phase.
I'm a solo player and a Constellation owner, and I totally agree with you. It seems they are going for a Sea of Thieves vibe. It may be possible to solo a large ship, but it is more challenging, and repealing an opposing team from boarding you, the solo pirate, is next to impossible. There are definitive risks associated with taking out a large ship solo in the Sea of Thieves. CIG is going in that direction but isn't there yet. I couldn't imagine leaving the pilot's chair to replace a shield generator or blown fuses at the back of the ship. And I'm also guessing that AI blades won't be nearly as good as a human crew. If they are better than a human crew, multiplayer is dead in Star Citizen.
I agree 100%. Once ai blades and npc crew are in, they can be easily balanced so the multi crew game play is still stronger while giving solo players an overall great experience as well.
All they have to do is turn on Guns to pilot.
I understand your concern, but every weaponized ship should have pilot controlled guns. My favorite ship is the Retaliator and I cannot effectively play it unless I have atleast 2 other friends to crew turrets.
Money is power. That is just a reality. If CIG wants to deny themselves revenue from people with disposable money then pigeon hole solo players.
Orgs are great if you have the time but person for person solo players spend more money on the game and for that revenue those players should have full access to the game.
Those are the cold hard facts and why CIG allows individuals to buy whatever ships they want.
Ship balancing is horrible. Multi crew is always worse then each player haveing there own ship . Combat 3 pilots always give u more dps and normally speed and speed wins fights . In mining it’s better to have 3 prospectors then 1 mole . If you put prospectors bag on all 3 moles you get more cargo and the pilot gets to mine without getting up . Salvage is the only gameplay iv done where having 1-2 friends is better with the reclaimer .
Multiplayer game and multicrew game is complitely 2 diffrent gemes and when you say multiplayer it not means you have to play in one ship all together. Thats why they offer NPC crew and all those old backers who bought this big ships because they promise NPC crew. Now you wanna tell all of us no, you not gonna play solo? Who the hell are you?? You think you can come in game buy starter package and dictate all old backers who sped money and supported this game to this lvl how to play the game?? Dont take too mutch on yourself ok ?? Maybe you will refound me my money i spent on this game because i knew i will crew my ships with NPCs? I dont think so, so shut up and dont spread you stupid vision how this game gonna be played its just your stupid opinion and nothing else.
I normally prefer to play solo too, but at the same time, im aware this game was conceived to be focused in multiplayer. But i know they are looking for our style of playing solo with kindness.
I think it's best just to see who's usually on when you are. Multicrew is an essential part of an MMO, even if a player is usually solo. There needs to be a push for players to find a play group.
And for the record, I'm normally solo, and my fleet reflects that. A lot of single pilot efficient ships, but a couple big multicrew ships for when groups are feasible.
I'd argue it's not a case of using them properly but efficiently.
Why shouldn’t solo have more power. You’re restricting game play. Solo play should be able to get there money back. If you want group play only, the truth is that a small niche play . Facts show this to be true.
There are solo ship for solo players. They are then efficient. There are multicrew ships for groups of players, they are then efficient. If a solo guy wants to fly a multi crew ship, it is possible but it will not be efficient. That's simple. Not every ships for any size of group. That's not a problem. the game will still be fun.
Respectfully disagree, this game is already slow enough without having to rely on others to complete basic parts of the game. I understand that group play will be heavily recommended for some tougher missions or massive industrial aspects etc. But I simply can't spend the extra hours it takes organizing players to complete mundane tasks, I'm not a streamer and don't have 8 hours to game everyday.
I am a solo player and am only here for solo play because my life schedule simply does not make group play workable. My expectation is based on the statements made in 2013 when i signed up that NPC's would eventually be available. This will be the only way that SC will be ultimately be successful.
I'm a longtime backer, and I own a few multi-crew ships, with the expectation that at one point, CGI would bring AI blade and NPC players(Only AI for 1.0 ), as they have mentioned on many occasions. I'm a solo player for a reason mentioned in your video and in some of the comments. As a solo player, I understand the restriction of soloing my multi-crew ship. CGI has sold many multi-crew ships and some orgs, own a crazy number of them that need crewing. It's not reasonable to expect people online and available at all times to crew all those ships.
The solution was always NPCs and AI blades with the understanding that NPCs should be less capable than a couple of friends. CGI is an MMO true, but the reality is sometimes I want to be the cpt of my Polaris while my friend is cpt of his Polaris. We need NPCs
Imagine any MMO that focuses on group play. Only raids in world of warcraft. Solo play makes 70-90% of every MMO game. Trying to focus on Groups is a guarantee for failure. Sure there are people that prefer it, but they are a minority. So if you want to have 200k players instead of 10 millions then go for group gameplay and screw soli players.
While you may more fire power, you're still taking damage. Systems go offline, fires start, etc. The puppet ship has more hands and at a drop of firepower they can have someone that can deal with the damage. As a solo player you cannot. It is a bigger risk to fight, it will be all or nothing. IMO solo players in combat vs a crewed ship of the same type will be at a disadvantage.
I agree that multi crew ships should hold more power than solo ships, it just makes sense. More guns in the fight, more dps. All my pledges are ships that can be solo or multi crew. Hurricane, mole, vulture, MSR. I’m less efficient if I play alone, and that’s ok with me but if I wanna play with others I’m happy to be able to that. That being said, a solo player should be able to compete with crew ships. An arrow shouldnt lose to a hurricane just because it’s multi crew and I think they do a pretty good job of that right now. Now should an arrow take on a hammerhead? I mean I guess it can but there are times where it’s like yeah, pick your battles, the arrow should flee.
You don’t fight a destroyer in a sailboat.
Soloing whatever dafaq I want especially when we get blades or ai crew.... hahaha
They need a way for solo pilots to still progress while the best benefits being from using multiplaying
One simple way to force players to join, is make that uec rewarding
I play solo and the largest ship I own is a reclaimer. Easy to solo if I'm just out salvaging and not using it for combat. I just put all power to shields and hope for the best 😊😂
solo with NPCs as crew is going to be a thing because that's what CIG sold backers long ago.. so, i disagree with your view in this vid
CIG mentionned that npc crew isn't planned for 1.0 nor 1.x i wouldn't be surprised they drop it all together.
I think a lot of multi crew proponents have unrealistic expectations. Expecting a crewed ship to be able to solo the entire game is just as unrealistic as expecting to solo the whole game as a single player. The endgame experience in Star Citizen is about fleets of complementary ship types working together towards specific goals. Simply occupying seats in a big ship doesn't and shouldn't automatically be effective. Training, discipline and experience are the determining factors for success. There is already value in properly crewing ships (salvaging in Reclaimers, mining in a Moles or doing security in a Hammerhead). Hard limiting certain ship types or gating content is not the answer. Skill and co operation are where it's at.
Let me guess, you started playing 3 patches ago?
We already have robots making hamburgers and future space game doesn't even have bots for multi crew.
Right now playing in a group can be very tedious. More players more bugs to find work around. When/ if they get the game running better group play will be a lot more fun.
I just want my Engineering Manual for Modders that sitting in my hanger that I paid for to be honored so I can do my own thing and not hinder the verse by my crippling desire to play solo.
I bet more space dads would play multicrew if it wasnt a minimum 2 hour time sink. If CIG adds better spawn in with friends/org mates/or matchmaking then multicrew wouldnt be such a barrier for most people, particularly the average busy person, who is not a content creator.
Yep. That's why I melted my Carrack and got a smaller ship.
One can only count on themselves. Solo till I die.
I highly disagree with you and think you fundamentally misunderstand how ballance should be acheived, what systems already exist to ensure ballance promotes multicrew gameplay, and what features soon to come online already highly incentivise multicrew play. Solo play should be given all the tools possible, and artificial restrictions on solo capabilities is NOT an effective or fun way to ballance solo vs multicrew effectivness. Your zero-sum mentality of "if solo players are powerful it takes away from multicrew players being powerful" comes off as poorly considered and, frankly, just selfish and mean.
As someone who rarely plays solo anyway, i dont even have a true dog in the solo-play race. I just totally disagree that people who prefer solo play should be "gamified" into artificial restrictions on play to benefit us multicrew players, or lock off entire parts of the game from them.
Your Zeus example is also just not accurate. Even with MFD accessible engineering monitors, you do not have the ability to effect repairs, move components and fuses, nor modify hardware. Tney have also confirmed that AI blades and NPC crew will under perform compared to skilled players, meaning that even access to these systems do not fully bridge the gap and eclipse multicrew capabilities. You have not engaged with your example in good faith, or at least your engagment failed to consider CIG stated goals and intentions and planned features.
All that, and i havent even mentioned PvP, endgame content and raids, Capital and fleet engagment, difficulty varriances, and orgs. There are so many aspects you havent addressed (to my satisfaction at least) in this video. I appreciate your perspective, and hope this engagment helps your video to suceed so the conversation can continue. I dont think this is where your opinion will end up, but if i am wrong, i look forward to hearing your counter arguments.
@@ParagonFangXen hello! Thank you for your comment and your perspective. First off I do want to mention that the most of what I am talking about here is referring to 1.0, and how that version of the game will act. I don’t believe any solo player should lose any tools or abilities simply because they play solo. In this video what I really am trying to do is emphasize that all players should have a chance regardless of play style. Multi crew should have its pros and cons, and solo should as well. I think it really comes down to the game SC is trying to be. I am not a game dev by any means, and I have no idea how difficult it might be to balance these two different play styles. But I’m advocating for a healthy balance between the two play styles whilst they each offer a certain value to the player. This means no matter who you decided to play with when you hop on, you can still have a fun experience regardless of if you play with people or not. Also the Zeus examples is flawed. I know that the actual “buffs” given to the solo player in that example are flawed and inconsistent. But the example was more about offering the perspective of seeing a solo player with a bit more power than they normally would in game. I think I could speak on for a while as to what I mean with all of this video (and honestly I have been very busy and stressed, so if this video isn’t the easiest to understand that is my fault entirely) but I am just another citizen with an opinion! Thank you for your comment!
Cig just nerfed the Inferno in readiness for the new Guardian.
Argument against having pilot controlled weapons of big ships:
- Too much DPS per Player will make the ship unbalanced and negate the need to have other players on the ship in the first place.
Counterarguement:
- Pilot controlled weapons can only fire where the pilot points the nose. Big ships can't steer quickly so pilots will always have an issue acquiring and hitting targets.
- Turrets manned by crew can aim their guns better and more quickly than the pilot so large ships with multiple crew members will always be more effective than flying them alone.
- 2 ships with 1 pilot each that can output 100k dps but only have a 1% hit rate are less effective than a single ship with 2 crew that has a 20% hit rate.
There is literally no downside to letting the pilot control extra guns when they're short on crew. Opponents in small ships will be able to easily dodge the incoming fire and opponents with more crew will be able to more effectively apply damage. Therefore, solo pilots should be able to control at least SOME of the guns on every shiip.
the issue of solo + NPC is that why do ppl multicrew ship at all when they can just use NPC? 8 polarises + NPC is way too stronger then one multicrew polaris.
And why use single seat ships then if every1 can use capital ship solo?
solo players should use solo ships or soloing bigger ships with limitation that goes with it.
tbh. its better. that we have option for making public group that anybody can join and leave at anytime. si Comm tabs they should make like Create group for lets say. Bunker looting, ERT, Salvaging etc etc
so people can voluntary join this public group. after the group filled necessary for the task or mission. then they can lock the group. so any intruder cant do any crap to the group.
I just dont like must active in Global chat. that tell people to join my ship.
I prefer passive model. let me create the group. set the task, set the reward joining my group, and can set mic audio, etc etc
We will be getting NPCs we can hire/train
ai and npc crew is the future and i know for a fact thats where cig is leaning because u need to realise u have those big capital ships that require 20-30 even more and servers are a big problem the fix IS the ai crew its simpler to add some instant ai than tens of players .basically u will fly a javelin with 3 players easily . AI controlling turrets and the other players idk firing torps repairing managing the ship
They needed solo and group play, a turret for a big capital ship only holds 12 shot per weapon for a size 4 or 3 weapon and is the same for any solo ships as well. They have made combat slower and way more lame than it used to be, they need to bring back the fun combat as it was before, master modes for flying is fine by me but the combat has been ranked and is terrible imo
They even just needed a solo specific ship the ares inferno where it will not be able to shoot and kill a sub cap or capital ship at all with the new updated 77 shots before it over heats and needs to cool down. When a real life gatling gun from my understanding you want to unload pretty much all of the ammo you have because shooting a little bit and then stopping then shooting again ruins the gun, and I thought they were going for realistic
Just as a single seater ship CAN'T be crewed by a large crew, so should multicrew ships not be fully functional by a solo crew.
You choose your gameplay when you buy the ship, that was your choice. There is plenty of solo gameplay without using multi-crew ships, FORCED to be solo playable should not be a thing.
Squadron 42 is a single player game. Star citizen is a multiplayer game.
The vast majority of backers don’t want forced multicrew and so the game shouldn’t force multicrew. It’s that simple. Design a game for 5% of the player base and you’ll end up with 5% of the current player base active in game playing.
When designing multicrew they need to take the approach where multicrew is more fun, not the approach where not multicrewing is a torturous experience (unfortunately the current projected direction). I personally think engineering will make this game unbearable for the vast majority of players on release and its effects will have to be greatly nerfed for this game to thrive.
Gimping the solo experience to give multicrew the perception of being good will do nothing except piss off solo players. It won’t encourage them to multicrew, it will convince them to find a game that doesn’t actively hinder the experiences they want to have.
When playing planetside 2 (even solo) finding gunners for my ship / land vehicle was easy, just park up and people would flock to me. This isn’t unique to Planetside but every game I can think of that allows for multiple people in vehicles. Everyone wants a lift, everyone wants to be a gunner because that experience is fun. Star citizen doesn’t have that feel, and I’m not even sure why but that’s what the developers need to address and gimping the solo experience isn’t the correct method. That’s just making the game worse, and operator modes with a top speed of 200, along with forced multicrew will cause this game to fail if the approach doesn’t change.
The aim of immersion in a video game is to simulate the enjoyable moments of real life, not the boring ones. In many ways CIG doesn’t seem to realise this and believes simulating boring experiences is as valid as simulating entertaining experiences, it isn’t.
I don’t need the travel time of my ship from one station to another to be an hour for “immersion”, that’s the type of immersion I can do without. Same way I don’t want to wait 30 minutes for my taxi in GTA on a Saturday night. Or not be able to play the game for 3 months because my character is doing a bid.
Watch me: proceeds to buy guardian instead of zeus. :D
Kick Rocks I want three! 😂
some people dont have friends btw
Great point of view, i think like anything there will be time to play with others and time just for you.
Multicrew vs multiplayer
Solo is already way too time consuming, group play is like wasting 4 hours in real life just to go have a meal together…. Some people enjoy that, but some of us DO NOT.
Not even going to watch but thats a stupid title and no, Solo players are not getting enough honestly.
Agree with you
Solo!
Its hopeless man, this community has a lot of cry babies, all they think about is themselves and not the longevity of the game, which is why they will never give an objective counter arguments but only emotional
That sounds like an emotional response. Lol.
CIG has a lot of balancing to do, it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. If you spent $900 on a polaris, and your an anti social individual i think you should be able to have ways to operate the ship without "real" people. For example, having NPC and depending on there skill level dictates how big of a percentage they should take.
Since a mutiplayer crew needs to split the funds a solo should be forced to do the same with there NPC.
I wish CIG luck in balancing all these different ships and game play types, hopefully they lean away from balancing for the market team and more for the actual game experience.
Apologies if i offended you with the first comment (emotional reponse on my part), I just think complaining about people crying is more of an emotional response instead of actually debating the issues.
We have to keep complaing so CIG can weed out the chaff from our grain.
@@Schooterl already debated people on the issue but all I got is weak arguments, just like what you just said "spent 900$ on polaris and anti social so you should be able to operate the ship without real people"
This is an mmo, meaning the world doesn't just revolve around you, ok you be anti social and buy all the capital ships you want, why do you have to be able to dominate the galaxy with it? How about the people who didn't send 900$? What will happen when pvp between big orgs start? Do they bring couple of polarises/ hammerheads/ fighters or just straight up bring 50 polarises?
Again most people that cry about solo play are only doing it to satisfy thier lust for power without thinking about the game or other people in the verse, definitely need balancing i agree
@corvoadam5598 "Anti social" was the wrong choice of words on my part, and you're right. A solo player shouldn't be able to dominate everyone, that's not what I'm saying. CIG makes money by selling ships, give those individuals who want to spend $900 on a polaris a way to operate that ship as a solo player (that's more money for CIG to bring this game forward). Even if that solo player fills his ship with NPC to operate turrets, I can't see them being able to beat a fully crewed polaris of real people.
Have you seen Star Citizens NPC? Half of that Solo player's paid NPC are going to be doing Jesus' poses on the benches. Yes, they will make it challenging having filled up the turret slots, but if CIG balances this right, my friends and I should be able to do better repairs as the fight wages on. This is why I love the Idea of engineering and whatnot in Star Citizen. The game becomes more than just point and shoot.
Really, all I'm saying is I like having lots of options, that being said, you won't see me flying a polaris by myself. If someone has a polaris filled with balanced NPC, I say challenge accepted.
@corvoadam5598 I see what your saying with the 50 polaris, but that goes back into how CIG balances everything. Whether that be restricting the amount of NPC you can hire, not allowing NPC to fly capital ships. There's always a solution, and I'm not talking solutions like the Corsair nerf. That's just lazy. Lol.
I think it is dishonest to say that you flying a zeus alone is going to beat a crewed zeus. You can only aim your guns ahead, even if you get the turret slaved to your pilot pipper. You could get hit in the power plant after jousting past each other because the crewed zeus can shoot you from the turret. Then you have to get out of your seat to put out a fire even though you were able to use your engineering MFD, while not focusing on the combat of course, to reroute the power you are losing. You just claimed a solo zeus could take out a crewed zeus with zero reasoning, just stated it like it was a known fact. You have a ship that has not had its guns removed from the pilot and given to a copilot who already had control of guns. What if one of the zeus copilot seats had control of pushing the fire button for your right pilot gun? Corsair chin guns are not on a turret. They fire forward just like the guns on the zeus. Zeus is also much more agile than the corsair.
Because you are dump and can't find people or org to be part of is not reason to spits on solo players.
It is my opinion that the biggest issue is that CIG introduced big ships with pilot controlled guns to begin with. Big ships should have the majority of their firepower from turrets and gunners, not the pilot.
In fact, i would like to see CIG do a complete flip of guns on big ships... the pilot gets the size 2 turret guns.. if that... and the turrets gets the S4+ guns that used to be pilot controlled.
I will never understand people that go to a multicrew-/multiplayer centric game but still expecting to get all the benefits of having a crew while flying solo.
Multi-crew is the way. While I am totally against NPC crews, I can see the other side of the argument. NPC crews need to be poor substitutes for real people.
SC is already borderline pay to win. NPC crews which are just as good as players will make the game full pay to win.
Personally I would go with ONE NPC per player.
What solo players need to realize is that most griefers are anti-social and therefore solo players too. So stop asking for more powerful ships to defend yourselves from griefers, you're literally asking for what you don't want.
Solo is already way too time consuming, group play is like wasting 4 hours in real life just to go have a meal together…. Some people enjoy that, but some of us DO NOT.