The Lannisters: a Psycho Analysis - A Song of Ice and Fire - Game of Thrones
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Ah, the Lannisters. “A psychologist would have a field day” - we’re under-qualified, but let’s have a field day anyway. @girlnettles and my good friend Sean Mac (who does a dead ringer Charles Dance Tywin) join me to break down Tywin, Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion, and maybe a Lancel, a Joanna, and a Gemma or Kevan... "and Moonboy, for all we know."
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title image uses "Lannister Family" by Sebastian Giacobino
Don't forget to restart the stream. It forces the algorithm gods to take notice and recommend it to new friends. 🥂✌️
Thanks for the reminder! I will
Ah yes, the algorithm gods must have their due!
I will leave a comment or two
I hate getting caught up in the prechat and don’t notice that I have to refresh to catch the stream. Like, what is everyone talking about?!
I’m not a simp. So no.
Nettles and Sean fed off each other SO WELL, CHEMISTRY WAS MUAHH
Tee hee hee 💕
"Oops all war crimes" 😂😂😂😊
Oops I did it again! Tywin ( every time!)
Sean is fantastic I can’t wait for you to have him back on!
If David doesn't bring me back I'll show up in his living room!
hahah this has been discussed also
Kevan had a very pragmatic reason for allowing Cersei's walk of shame. Once he accepted the position of regent Kevan believed he had to break Cersei's powerbase in Kingslanding. This is more or less confirmed in the ADWD epilogue. Kevan sent all the Lannister guards with loyalties to Cersei away from King's landing once he took the position as regent. And he knew that she would lose the respect of the common people after her walk of shame. I don't believe Kevan took any pleasure in Cersei's humiliation, but he believed it was necessary. Kevan told Cersei that she was unfit to rule when she asked him to be her hand. And after he left King's landing Cersei proved him absolutely right. Once he took power Kevan wanted to ensure that Cersei would have no ability to undermine him. Which is why he originally proposed that Cersei should retire to Casterly Rock rock, and leave the regency to him.
that's good analysis 🫡
And he got killed for doing his job way too well. Suffering from success.
I'm obviously not the only one super impressed by Sean's reading. So he will do the audio book for The Winds of Winter right?
If homie Sean isn't already a voice actor or audio book reader. He mfn SHOULD
Please have Sean back on again! Great reader, great contributor!
He can't stop me from coming back I'll show up in his living room.
@@herowithathousandvoices 😆👏
he sounds soooo much like nikolaj coster waldau it actually gave me chills
The drip simply don't quit for Tywin
Dude literally drinking out a pump cup during battle
@@soxpeewee and likely not even enjoying it! He strikes me as I think nettles brought up as someone who has to “ dress up for the rubes”
i listened to a portion of this audio only, and omfg it literally sounds like Charles Dance is on this stream!😎
Honestly, of all the Lannisters I quite like Genna. She has the sensability of Kevan or Tywin, the courage of Jaime and the stubbornness of Cersei.
I wonder if she orchestrated the Red Wedding seeing as she's actually a Frey.
Nettles and Sean were fantastic! Great voice acting! 👏🏾
I love nettles.
Love you too💋🐉
Shawn (sean?)’s voice acting was so good man. When you told him to talk louder i was like what?! No! Lol. I think he was excellent
Sean
awesome as usual ty guys, extra points for all the voices
I think GirlNettles is right to be a little obsessed with Lann the Clever, in-fact I would argue that Lann the Clever and Azor Ahai are one and the same and that furthermore, both these individuals and Brandon Of The Bloody Blade are also one and the same. As to why I believe this, it's like how in Dune the Atreides and Harkonnens are joined by blood without knowing because Jessica is unknowingly the Baron Vladimir's daughter. I also think it might be a play on The Accursed Kings historical fiction series which was a key inspiration for the series, the idea that the Starks and the Lannisters are both cursed bloodlines because of the crimes of their mutual Ur-ancestor.
With regards to what you said about Cersei resenting Jaime because she can't claim Casterly Rock despite being the eldest because she's not a man I see it also as an inverse of the Amethyst Empress/Bloodstone Emperor situation where you have a younger son who resents not getting to inherit because the GEOTD does it like Dorne where eldest inherits regardless of gender.
It's also a continuation of the unjust nature of how women are treated in this world which I think largely has it's roots in this original sin, this crime Azor Ahai committed.
Sean's tywin voice is second only to Charles dance in the flesh
Love it when you guys do reader's theatre!!! David- great job!!! You make the best crones!! Sean and Nettles very talented!!!
I just wanted to thank you for streaming and then posting the footage as a video
And you made my day, love 💕
Thank you
Can Sean just reread the entire book series in his Tywin voice please! Thank you 😂
On the topic of the Lanisters being Machisvellian, they are kind of a good demostration why the misquoted version of it doesn't work.
The actual quote goes: "And here comes in the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both; but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved."
But also: "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated, which will always be as long as he abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects and from their women."
The Lanisters are firmly in the hated cathegory, despite what Tywin said abouth helping back up thoes who bend the knee. A big reason why they are hated is exactly Tywin's "oops war crime" approach to warfare.
Amazing stream, hopefully we get to see more of Sean.
Please have your friend back David. Love his voice and input.
I wonder how many people the first time they read the books hated Jaime and then loved him on the second read through?
"I'll do the septas! I'll do the septas' voices when they come on!" bro I'm screaminggggg 🤣🤣
Thank you for my next art project. GOT burn book!! ❤❤❤
That track suit is actually on point.
Anything to do with the Lannisters' is always delicious, what a treat. Also the voice acting was the icing on the cake. Thank you.
Sean has a amazing voice
"eve did nothing wrong" is so accurate I could cry
It might be my favorite of Dave's videos. It honestly inspired me to think more about spirituality.
Great stream! Fantastic work by your guests!! You always collect the best cohosts lol
Another enriching stream. Nothing but High level analysis and A1 Voice Work. Thank you all!
'Good stream. 'Loved the guests.
This stream is 🔥
Thankyoucomeagain
Sean’s voice work is genuinely incredible.
poll time who had better hair nettles or sean? haha
yes
Nettles wins it for me because of those beautiful accessories. 👑
Sean ♥️
I'm all about that dulcet voice acting. With David in the background as a narrator and director, it's chef's 💋.
@@girlnettles It's not a competition! (but if it was you'd win)
Dang! Had a migraine yesterday and couldn't catch the live. I'll be listening at work today!
Nice Jaime voice Sean!
1:13:31 look at the chat!
it’s hilarious the chat has created a Jaime - Catelyn ship from this
Sean gave me chills with his dead on impersonation of Nikolaj.
@@alyssamitchell8191 me toooooo
Welcome Sean? Shawn? Whatever either way good work
Thank you very much! It was a lot of fun!
Can you make a separate playlist for these kind of videos?
Every stream gets better and better! Thanks for the content ❤
So good, I had to watch this again. We need more of this trio. We got such good analysis achieved, while having fun. 😁
Omg Sean's Jamie impersonation is absolutely perfectly impressive. He sounds just like him! The scene he and nettles did with Jamie imprisoned 😮. I would swear I was watching the show. They were both spot on! You're great too DL 😂
i missed the stream i was most looking forward to :( superman has a great jaime voice.
We all know nettles can act but sean was great too. Love how the tywin voice sounded like rogal dorn from tts
It truly does. That was a turning point not only for his character but for the reader as well. The bland way he tells Catelyn about Rickard and Brandon's deaths is just utterly shocking to her. And she can't question any of it because of the way he tells the story.
I do disagree about Cersei ‘deserving’ the Walk of Shame. Being stripped naked, especially in front of a crowd, against your will is sexual humiliation and that is a form of sexual abuse. And I think there’s a point being made here about a religious group enacting abuse of this particular nature on a woman on this level and it being called justified.
Cersei without argument deserves to be punished for all the horrible things she’s done, but the empowered faith militant is a criticism of religious institutions with too much power, and it makes SENSE that her actions led to this, but imo the fact that Cersei gave them this power doesn’t make what they do to her any less obscene. And I *do* think that this is going to be a factor to her self destruction, much like when Aerys was imprisoned - it’s *traumatizing.*
Think that the religious people chose that punishment for several reasons. It was besides a punishment obviously it was also a show of their power. And it was kind of a fitting punishment because she blamed margaery Tyrell who is completely innocent what do you considered incredibly disgusting sexual acts which ultimately would have led to the marjorie's death... All they did was strip Cersei of pride
@@soxpeewee it’s not a question of whether or not it’s narratively fitting - it absolutely is. As I said, Cersei has been asking to get back what she’s put out so far. But like I said, this *is still* sexual abuse by a religious institution - and as real life people reading a fictional work who had differences in the discussion, it is my stance that sexual abuse isn’t ’deserved’ in any circumstance, and reducing it to just a pride thing is a severe misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of what Cersei goes through.
Considering all the heinous and vile things Cersei has done, I have zero sympathy for her. She still got off with a relatively light punishment.
@@kaminsod4077good for you.
@@AuroraExhaleYeah good for him. Reciprocal justice. She deserves no sympathy. Is sexual humiliation bad? Yes. Is there a point being made in this scene about religious organizations and how they affect women? Yes. Does that mean Cersei didn't deserve this? No, absolutely not.
She's done worse things to people who deserved them far less than she does. She's also a crazy, narcissistic psychopath who groomed one of her brothers since they were children and wants to kill her other brother. She does not deserve yours or anyone else's sympathy.
Yall need headphones. Your call keeps overriding each other. It definitely makes for a copped up discussion.
It’s not that bad lol
I love Grey Waste Tim, and of course the Beautiful Girl Nettles, but when youre doing readings, Sean is the man! His voices are professional- level. Btw, youre not so bad yourself, David! I've been binging your theories again!
Loved this!!!! I hope you do similar vids for the greyjoys and starks ( LOTS of emotional trauma and issues to unpack there)
Sean was great! Awesome stream as always Dave and Nettles
Bring Sean (trained) back again
Who dis that knows about Trained?
@@theHeroWithaThousandVoices a guildie
Gold is a very malleable metal! In connection with honor being iron, also gold with greed and greed being the root of all evil.
This was awesome, all of it. What a family. I wonder if Cat told Brienne about what Jamie did to Bran. She needs to know.
I think it's a cool contrast between Dany and Cersei that Dany understands the need to don the trappings of power -- her floppy ears. It took humiliation for Cersei to see that the queen everyone saw -- and a good portion of the beauty, too -- came from the gowns and jewels.
Cersei just thought she was inherently better than everyone else. When she understood how much that relied on gowns and jewels, she cling to those all the more.
Whereas Dany, whom some may declare to be the most beautiful woman in the world, does understand that she cannot sell her crown, that she must wear the toqar, that she must dress as a Dothraki and speak their language when with them. Dany also understands that a true ruler, queen, is a servant to the people. So although she understands the importance of the trappings of power and dressing for the role that she is playing, there is dignity and regality that belongs to her and not to gowns and jewels.
Kudos to all of you, the voice acting is really good :O
6:39 great Stannis voice!!!
I love these more free form streams where you all just spitball on on a given topic. I just wanted to say I don't think the Battle of The Red Fork is a motivating factor of the Red Wedding. I disagree because it's still a victory in the field for Tywin even if tactically it was a set up. It's pretty impressive victory as well when you consider he didn't even truly know who was commanding the opposing army and Roose hit them at night and his initial plans with the prepared for route being thwarted. Still, Tywin swept the field with minimal casualties and took important captives. Also Robb committed to the bit in a big way sending all his infantry in under Roose. So its not like the show where Robb pulls this off with 2000 men and somehow jets to Riverrun with most of his army. It was a clever and even desperate ploy that paid off but it's not really the humiliation of Tywin that its often made out to be.
I disagree, specifically because the chapter ends with Tyrion laughing at how Tywin has been made a fool of by the "green boy." Tywin was completely outwitted, and the strategy he tried to use against Robb was in fact used against him. it's very humiliating
@DavidLightbringer I would argue that Tyrion would find amusement in any instance of Tywin being thwarted and the fact that it happened at the hands of someone he underestimated probably made it hilarious. But my point is Tyrion as far as we know is the only one even tempted to laugh. No one else in story mentions this as a loss of face for Tywin. Jamie and Tyrion both make comments to female Starks afterwards to not get their hopes up even as Robb keeps winning specifically because he hasn't actually met Tywin in the field yet. So clearly, this incident didn't do too much to lower even Tyrion's estimation of his father. So if it didn't hurt his reputation (and based off the rest of the story it hasn't appeared too) why would it would be a motivating factor for the Red Wedding?
the styles alone were awesome 🦁🦸👑
Great stream! You three should do more psycho analysis style content for ASOIAF
Great video y’all voice acting was on point. Could prolly do 6 more Lannister streams make it an even 7
Bro, his tywin has POWER😮
Loving Nettles rn "Not Cersei! Cersei's stupid!" I concur, Girl Nettles. I concur!
Screw Gerold Hightower loyal to a madman
Sean should feel confident in his contributions. He's great! Always love Nettles, too.
Weirdly enough, I feel like another angle for Jaime's shame is his sword fighting prowess. He's referred to by several characters as the best swordsman and he certainly ranks himself highly, but I recall several moments where he also thinks back to others like Dayne and Selmy. Almost like he's embarrassed to think of himself as great compared to them -- he's just the only one who's left standing
Tywin looks impressive but he is really incompetent. He has one move wipe them out all of them. He was losing a war to 14 year old green boy until he whipped out his signature move and killed then all at a wedding
You only need one move if it works
To be fair, that 14 year old boy had older and experianced men giving him advice.
But yeah, Tywin relies on him having the larger force, or doing some really inderhanded stuff. Wich, you can argue works, but remember, the Red Wedding is the reason why there is an open rabbit season on Freys, and Genna is a Frey.... Doung the dirty trick isn't allways as pragmatic as it seems.
“Snow… such a white (wight) name. Like the pretty cloaks they gave us in the kings guard….”
Another of George’s more obvious parallels of the kings guard as tools of the king to the wights being used as tools of the Others, in addition to the Starks being compared to wights as you mentioned.
2:59:51 yes, Cersei and Brienne AND he specifically points out how he’s more interested in Catelyn over Lysa because she’s a stronger character
@2:43:00 The only issue I see with Tywin using Bron to send Shae to Tyrion is that he also seemingly sent Tyrion to his death by placing in the Van the next day.
Perhaps Tywin really didn't think Tyrion was in danger? It is also interesting that we get Tyrion telling his father that he thinks Tywin was trying to get him killed, when Tyrion makes so many misjudgments later on in King's Landing.
We also have Tywin repeatedly telling Tyrion not to bring 'the whore' to court. Perhaps Tywin knows Tyrion will defy him and bring his spy with him?
ALSO (im just sending msg after msg haha) I love this trio!! Nettles and Sean are SUCH an amazing duo, but yall 3 just absolutely killed it! ❤❤❤
Great video
Yo that Tywin voice is Epic!
Such great voice acting!!!
It's like Cersei sees The Ghosts of Christmas Past...
Again just excellent and your guests-fabulous.
I hated so hard that he died. Oberyn could have been such an amazing character 😫
Wow🎉❤🎉❤😮 Tywin or Darth Vader? Tyrion even try’s to sound like him. Nice Job Sean and Nettles, LML you made it!!!
Kevan had a good number of reasons not to stick up for Cercei and prevent the walk of shame. One was, she raped his son who is also her main accuser. Two, last time the church of the seven had an army it took dragons to subdue them, and Kevan's fresh out of dragons. Three, he wanted her out of the way as she was an incompetent drunk, throwing away alliances and power left and right. Four, he believes she is guilty. Five, he saw it as Tywin's wish that Cercei was in the Westerlands and not the regent.
I do want to come back to the whole raping his son thing. The abuse Lancel suffered at her hands (and Robert's and Tyrion's) was quite severe, with a brush with death to top it off. She manipulates Lancel into regicide, then into incestuous sex, then hurts a fresh battle wound he has and never shows the slightest hint of remorse even in her pov chapters. Lancel experiences guilt, powerlessness, physical injury, near death and eventually joins a cultish band of fanatical religious people to deal with his feelings. He might eventually be executed for regicide, though maybe he gets to atone through joining a religious order or something. Kevan knows most if not all of this by the time the walk happens. Cercei should count herself lucky that Kevan even opens the gates to the reed keep at all.
Oooooooh I really really really like this!
I agree with all of this! Kevan has no reason to be kind to Cersei.
if only Cersie had been smarter your oldest son should be a Baratheon then they would have been safe, no war of five kings no death of ned stark
Cersei would find a way to f it all up
“The others were lords’ sons too.” I like to think the others are ice shadow babies of nights king who was lord of winterfell. Or at least he’s lord of the nights watch maybe. But this definitely points to icy Melisandre nights queen giving birth to them
they're blue-blooded!
Did Jaime imply Catelyn wasn't a maiden on her wedding day? He says, "Perhaps Ned wanted to spare his young bride, if not quite a maiden."
Is that an implication against her virtue, or is it just acknowledging that by the time they'd have talked about it, the wedding night would have passed?
I'm just wondering, because maybe it implicates Petyr as bragging to many people about deflowering Catelyn. Just reinforcing yet again that Littlefinger loves Littlefinger, even if he believes he loves Catelyn
Also, this is juxtaposed with her implicit trust in Petyr, earlier mentioned. If she had caught onto Jaime's implication here, her whole illusion of Petyr as trustworthy would have shattered
Yes that's it exactly
ياله من أداء لشخصية تايوون 🤯
What I find fascinating about the Lannister family is the fact that is one of the few families in the story that don't have connection with magic of any kind. Even their ancestor Lan the Clever - presumably another son of Garth the Green - took Casterley Rock from the Casterleys using very "humanly" means- his witt - either by conning them or marrying into the family. Maybe because of that , the lack of magic in their family, they are atheists and do not believe in thinks that are different and not part of this world . And I believe because of that , the lack of believing in something greater than yourself, they became so vain and so skilled in using all the forms of "human" powers - because they believe in nothing but themselves. "There is no one like me ...just me" - very existentialist but very human - the most human 😊
I think it's interesting that bran didn't make the cut to circes list of guilt ghosts. I know Jaime was the one that pushed him, but the fact that she didn't even consider him shows to me she believes that's entirely Jamie's sin.
i stumbled on this and it not usually my thing but this was great big thumbs up and a cheeky sub
The septa became Palpatine for a second 😅
hey you never know what's going to happen when I have to come up with three old lady voices in rapid succession. Yoda may show up, or palpatine, you never know
Best voice acting yet!
Just want to say that honor doesn't have to come from belief. I'm a nihilist and don't believe in anything and I like to think that I behave honorably, even if I don't attach any feelings of "rightness" or whatever to that behavior. For me, it comes down to pragmatism; we live in a world with other people and generally that goes smoother when you treat others fairly and help them when you can
hey thanks for the comment I appreciate the perspective. I guess I'm reading what you're saying here and still wondering if what you're talking about qualifies as honor. It certainly pragmatism, but would you say that you have a morality that comes from your pragmatism? interesting questions
@@DavidLightbringer I guess it depends on how you want to define honor. Personally, when I see or hear the word honor, I think of a very specific list of qualities: honesty, fairness, and respect. Those things aren't dependent on you believing in a certain morality, only behaving in certain ways in response to certain things. If you wanted to define honor more broadly as something like "being good" then yeah, that would definitionally require you to believe in some moral system, which I do not. I can definitely see the need to look at someone's reasoning and intent when trying to judge harmful actions. Someone trying to cause harm is a way different circumstance than someone accidentally causing harm. But at the end of the day, they still caused harm. In a similar vein, someone treating others with respect, being fair, and being honest, is still having the same positive effect on the world around them regardless of why they did those things. I don't particularly see what is gained by making a distinction based on reasoning in this instance, provided that it's a pattern of behavior and not a one time thing. I guess you could combine the two ideas and say there's a difference between behaving honorably (acting with respect, fairness and honesty) and being honorable (being "good" because you believe it's the right thing to do). I just don't particularly see the need to care about the latter. A person's reasons don't effect me, only their actions, and when it comes to someone treating me in a neutral or positive manner, I never think about why they chose to behave that way.
Sean bringing the shower energy 💯
I just had a horrible vision in my head. Rather than just murder the Mad King, Jaime should have tied his frail king to the iron throne. I imagine George would love the idea of someone using the Iron Throne as a method of torture eventually leading to murder. Kind of a microcosm of the story ya know
I like this idea.
@@girlnettles big fan of yours so I’m flattered. This got me thinking that maybe George could adapt this idea when Dany arrives to Kings Landing to find Circe clinging to the chair. A different mad ruler, but would make for awful imagery from either perspective.
@@dirtysheepdog I’ve thought about the throne becoming a weapon again ever since I read about Maegor’e manner of death. If this happened to Cersei I might drown the earth in female excitement juice. 💦
I always thought that Cersei had helped killed her mother because Joanna had found out about her and Jaime and was keeping them apart. I'm with Nettles, Cersei is awful, evil and pretty stupid.
I have a crush on Girl Nettles after that Catelyn Stark re-reading ☺️❤️ Girl Nettles KILLED it 🔥🔥🔥
The Lannisters basically are the Neitzchean Superman.
The thing with Tywin Lannister is that he is brilliant and strategic as war commander and Hand. The only thing that could blind side him was his children. Cersei Lannister was so misjudged by Tywin that in how stupid and narcissistic she is that he was blind sided by her children heritage. Tywin Lannister was really undone by his children. Jamie, motivation for killing King Aerys would never occur to Tywin. Jamie in Tywin estimation is what a Lannister should be physically. Tywin saw it as an opportunity to be exploited and not to stop a mad king nuking the place. Tywin Lannister is blind to Tyrion who is most like him but in appearance. Tywin vanity couldn't accept Tyrion because he was ugly dwarf. The thing is the Lannisters when it comes from the main branch family are pretty much inbred and very close to incest with both Tywin and Joanna being first cousins. In some way the madness of the Lannisters are mirroring the Targaryens in this regard. A lot of the major houses are inbred to degree and outside of Targaryens very few of them marry their first cousins.
Nettles is so pretty! I love the costume? Outfit? Whatever, it's great :D
17:30, “By any means necessary”, is Tywin based on Malcolm X?
I thought have Sean and Nettles on stream reading was fantastic! Super enjoyable to listen to. Only issue I have as a viewer is I feel Nettles gets defensive when someone has an opinion she doesn't agree with. Tries to overrride Sean when he's explaining his point of view, then waits until he's done to just say Cersei is dumb. Didn't listen to any of his points at all. She did the same thing with a stream with GWT that I watched the other day. Other than that once thing I thought it was a fantastic video!
Will keep in mind we're also trying to be entertaining, so sometimes we let ourselves get fired up just so it's not flat. Nettles wasn't giving an inch on Cersei, which I actually respect. She basically just stuck to her guns
@@DavidLightbringer really hope this didn’t come across as super negative or anything, just a small critique!
Can nettles let catelyn have a little dignity? She plays her way too similar to lysa.