"Smart Coil" 4 Wire Coil Testing Using A Labscope
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- 4 wire "smart coils" can be tricky to diagnose. Using a lab scope is one of the best ways to quickly and accurately diagnose an issue in the system. Thanks for watching!
I completed this training on the website and passed the test. (thanks to your excellent teaching skills). But I'm glad to see it added to RUclips as well. So many people will benefit.
Awesome Wyatt! I shared it here to help spread it a bit further...kinda double dipping but hey, that's the internet :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great job Mike,
Love the way you explained the IGT ,IGF plus the primary voltage dropping when current being drawn . NO amp clamp needed
cool .😀
Hey James, thanks for watching!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Would it be fair to call this a Darlington transistor setup? A transistor in the ECM turns on a larger transistor in the coil. Can the square wave signals be tested the "old" way with a test light or is the current carrying capacity too small?
Hey, I'm unfamiliar with the Darlington setup. The transistor in the ECM sends a low current square wave as a turn-on signal. You DO NOT want to test that circuit with a test light. It's possible it could cause the ECM to fail, or enter into a fail-safe mode.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Not first.
Great job Mike! 👍
Mike deserves a raise! 😉
Keep campaigning for that Nick! I hope it happens ;)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Don't we all! But especially Mike! 😉
Thank you so much for all you explanation Mister Mike. Clear and short. Cheers from Belgium
Hey Jean, thanks for watching all the way from Belgium!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Thank you Mike. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week. Good to see you.
Thank you Billy! You as well :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great video. What leads are you using?
thank you Mike for showing this test.
and yes i agree whit Nick you deserve a raise
Hey Jesus, thanks man!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great Training as usual mike ! As a former Certified Toyota technician i use the pico all the time . Lab Scope training is essential to every technicians tool box! Keep up the good work mike 🔧 p.s. i need one of those Workshirts where can i get one?
Thanks Toytech816!! The shirts are made by Redkap. Check out their automotive website!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hey Mike cool video. Does this car have 2 feedback circuits? One for each bank? There are only 3 feedback signals between each coil control signal on your scope pattern.
Great catch Caleb! Yes, on this particular model there are 2 circuits.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
THANK YOU MIKE , THAT WAS A VERY GOOD CLASS I TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME . I NEED TO UNDERSTAND SECONDARY IGNITION WAVEFORM MUCH BETTER THAN WHERE I AM AT I HOPE IN THE FUTURE THERE WILL BE CLASSES LIKE THIS SHORT AND TO THE POINT THAT WE ALL COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AND AGAIN THANK YOU MIKE .
Hey man, thanks! I'll put it on the list.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Fantastic information thanks, maybe you should also let everyone know that if we have i coil that has failed, we need to found out the reason it failed, i have seen people put into some nice NGK coil only to last i few months, and then saying that it must be the coils are bad ,only to found out that the reason this car was going through coils all the time was because the injectors was not flowing the best and the poor coils was working very hard because we had less fuel in the system , and i sure we all know that fuel is a conductor of electricity !
Hey Stephen, feels like it's been a while! thanks for watching and commenting! You're right, always diagnose the root cause :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
M, you've done demos and diags before on that car before. Is that car a customer's car or a training car?
Hey Jeremy, it's actually one of my own cars :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
It wasn’t mentioned in the video; I assume that your scope has the isolated ground inputs. On scopes that have common ground inputs, connecting a ground to the device’s under test ground and another lead to ground at another point could set up a ground loop. When the device(coil) pulls current, part of that current can flow through the scope leads. Or if the chassis ground was not perfect part of the current normally going through the chassis ground could go through the scope back to the device ground. The scope isn’t in any real danger unless the current flow is large enough to heat up the test leads or the circuit board ground traces. But it can cause noise to appear on the scope display. On a common ground scope connecting only one of the lead grounds is sufficient and avoids any ground loops. Keeping in mind that voltage variations in the chosen ground will effect all inputs. If the voltage variation of the device is wanted, or to infer current draw; a separate channel input could be connected to the device ground to measure the voltage drop of the ground circuit to the device. I like the shorter format.
Hey Steve, great tip. Yes the PICO does have isolated grounds so it's not an issue on this one. thanks!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I just wante to use a lap top with the pico scope I haven’t purchased yet. So I didn’t know what software will work . Or if any software come with the pico scope . Thanks for your speedy replies
Mark, if you are getting a PICO scope you want to run it on the PICO software. It's a free download from Picoauto.com
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Excellent video Mike.
Thanks dude!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Fantastic Mike!
Thank you very much!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Volkswagen Passat coil-on-plug has 4 wires but no IGF wire. Instead, it has 2 ground wires. The extra ground wire is for secondary ignition. I wonder what would happen if we scoped those 4 wires in the exact same manner that was shown in this video.
Hey Mike,have you ever had situation that pcm driver(control side or feedback side) has been frayed due to coil module failure?Thanks in advance !
Ismar, perosnally I have not seen it. I'm sure it's possible but I believe it to be less likely due to the very low amperage on those circuits.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining thanks mike!Cheers!
good explanation teacher thanks.
Thank you!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Good description. Thank you!
Hey thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hi mike what software do u recommend using with a lap top?
Hey Mark, what are you trying to do? I use quite a bit of different software depending upon what i'm trying to accomplish.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hey Mike. Thanks for the video. Sure wouldn't mind getting my hands on a couple NGK
TTS stickers.
Hey John, thanks for watching! Yeh, I wouldn't mind that either...we will need to get some made.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Thank you Mike great video sir.I love NGK product .
Thanks for watching Mikembz1!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great video! Ironic you posted this now. I just had a Lexus that the igf signal was shorted inside of a coil causing what felt like a due cut at 2100rpm.
Hey Franky, thanks man! Funny how that works.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Very helpful! thank MIKE DESDE CARTAGENA COLOMBIA. estrañamos las clases en español en compañia de frizt.
Thanks for watching Cesta!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great video Mike, thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for watching dude!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
hi mike i have quotation do i need to use attenuater for the pico because the spike that comes after pull the current down? plz explain to me thanks to you
Wael, you should not need to. the Pico can handle 200 volts before you need to use one.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great presentation
Hi Mike,
How do you know when you’re going to do the next stream? Never seems to pop up in my notifications 🙁
Thanks
Hey, I send an email out a week before and the day of. Head out to ngktechportal.com and create and account. From there i'll have your email address and you'll see it come through tomorrow.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
NGK Technical Training thanks Mike 👍🏻
great video mike. you started talking 6 cylinder at the beginning but your scope trace is showing 4 cylinder? i know i'm missing fingers but.... lol
Richard, wow awesome catch. So, I didn't talk about it in the video, didn't want confusion. The circuit is isolated. Take a look at channel A. 6 spikes from high voltage interference. If you look closely at a diagram you'll see IGF 1 and 2 circuits, really we are seeing a 3 cylinder here!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining ah yes i see my mistake now. i see on the green trace a double bump artifact i might expect from a multistrike but it is not appearing in the blue trace. i'm gunna be saving this to study later! oh and yes seeing the three makes me think waste spark strategy.
Richard, not a mistake at all! Just an opportunity to further explain :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Do you know the criteria by which the coil triggers the IGF signal?
Hey Anti Chuckle, unfortunately, I don't really know the secret sauce inside the coil...I could speak to one of our engineers. My guess, the module watches for some sort of voltage drop to occur. when that happens, it grounds the IGF circuit.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
great info mike! I received my tee shirt in the mail thanks again dave
Hey Dave, awesome! Thanks for watching.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great video! A lot of good info
The scope proved the circuits. If you had a constant misfire, you could see or prove which one is faulty and along with the scan tool data, may be helpful for what's actually failing.
Hey Mike, thanks for watching! Great point!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
4 channel scope is very handy !!
For sure Tom!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
How can you look at secondary wave forms with coil over plug systems
Hi Jeff. If you can access the COP, you can use a paddle probe. Or if you have the lead extension, you can remove the COP. Plug in the lead extension between the spark plug and COP. Then test the secondary with the inductive capacitance probe.
Hey Jeff great question! Billy, thanks for answering! That was perfect.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Very well explain!
Good jop and very helpful
Give us some infos about diesel injection system diagnostics such as EDC 17
#love you ❤
Hey, thanks for watching MM A!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Very helpful!!
Hey Bill, good! Thanks for watching.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
at 1:30 i would think that the Ground connection for the coil would be on the engine /heads.. so the spark return path is the shortest. failure to at least attempt to perform a voltage drop test from coil negative to engine/head ground connection may result in misfires or repeated coil failures where the high voltage negative spark return attempts to get by to the coil via the positive circuits. this is a major issue with Coil in CAP GM Hei's that the ground strap gets left out and with aftermarket MSD boxes that the thick black wire gets grounded to the negative battery post or the body.. without a decent braided engine to firewall ground strap. just a thought.. i have been at this for 40 years. no just some lurker throwing out garbage..
Hey Wayne, when I hooked the scope into the power and ground leads it was essentially testing the same thing. Sure a good voltage drop test is always a great way to go though!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Nice coils!
Thanks Lew!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
0:40.. that explains it. thanks
Ground wire is also shared Mike.
Yep, it is. Good call!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Nice more info for me as im reading the A8 study guide. Looks to me like they need to pay you more. You seem little bit unhappy.
Hey Jesse, thanks for watching! Hope it helped. Do I really!?
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I was told I need an rpm signal to trigger relay
❤
NGK Technical Training actually you are not “doing the same thing” as a proper voltage drop test for the ground circuit. By connecting the way you did here, you’re only performing a volt drop across the coil. In your presentation here, you could have completely missed a problem in a ground circuit by not using a channel input to view the difference in electrical potential between the beginning of the coil ground circuit (at coil) and the end (battery ground post).
Hey Daryll, if there were an issue with the ground circuit how could we properly maintain voltage differential under load of the coil when the car is running? Would you not expect a larger drop?
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Use battery negative as a reference for all measurements. With a coil ground problem, you would end with less differential across the coil because you would now have 2 loads instead of 1 and with it being a series circuit you’d have total volt drop split between 2 points
So in this case, it would have been wiser to ground every channel at the battery instead of assuming a circuit is good
@@daryllauto-correctdiagnost5020 It's his car. When that 2nd unwanted resistance that's in series with the coil gets high enough, the misfire will let him know something's wrong...lol.
Is that a 3 cylinder car? 9:50