Hives need to be well fed prior to treatment. This is critical. Treating a hungry yard, especially in spring can result in the scenario you describe. And you are right on about the changes in pads with age. Pads right out of the freezer give a longer, more even treatment. Pads near or over expiration begin to sweat in the package. This results in a BANG of initial flash as well as strips that are harder to separate at times. I think the older pads are better for single pad treatments with shorter intervals. Ian, why don't you come down to Oregon this fall and attend our conference where you can visit with beekeepers that have many, many years of experience using this stuff. No need to re-invent the wheel. Bring the family; we would love to see you again!
I’ve come to the conclusion that Formic isn’t for me. I’m too fussy with my brood nest. I have learnt that regardless the method or approach, the Formic disrupts the colony from tending the open brood and I think that is why I’m seeing open brood losses. Which I’m told is normal but I work too hard and spend too much money to regularly adopt a mite treatment that sets the colony back, I will need to move towards a different type of treatment
@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I'm confused? You are concerned about FP setting the colonies back and then in your last video you were pulling frames out to weaken colonies that were too strong ending up with excess brood frames. Maybe formic would slow them down enough so you could avoid that extra step and labor? Just thinking. I'll be curious to see how the FP colonies look in a month or 2.
Yes, killing brood is not preferred. And yes , pulling down big ones, boosting small. If there were a Formic treatment on them I wouldn’t be pulling those units down to boost others
Yay. I will be really interested to see what happens if you put the pad on the top box instead. I vote yes 👍✅ I am so happy you are doing this. I have watched so many videos about formic acid and it scares me. You are SO honest! I really Appreciate that!!
So many variables with the different treatments and all require careful thought for sure. Our heat limits us so much down here. It’s a challenge all the way around for all beekeepers. I can experiment as needed, but I feel for you guys having to work out treatments within the very livelihood that feeds your families.
I used Formic pro the last three years always on top of second box 2 strips fully open entrance. I live in NE PA. Just under 10% queen loss. A 10% colony loss in winter, lows around -20F. Before using formic near 50% loss using Apivar and OAV.
I have used formic and always liked it. Works well on the brood and below the caps. I ALWAYS vent when I do it and I have supers on. I know others have put in shims at the top. I put in a screen board with a vent. I also have screened bottom boards. I just think if they can't air it through the hive it overwhelms them.
We always treat our bees with an empty honey super on. This adds more room for the acid to expand. Especially on the first day of treatment. Also we always treat the girls late in the day so the temp is a little cooler on the first day of treatment.
In Germany we have used formic for a long time, what we believe kills queens is sudden shock of formic fumes, one way to reduce this with formic pads/sponges is to freeze them before application. As they defrost/warm up it takes a while before the formic starts to evaporate and the hive has time to adjust to the fumes.
yes I wrote before that we used to bring it with a picnic fridge right from the freezer. And always apply it before night. But it was in liquid form applied cold with a syringe on sponges. But he has too many hives. Maybe he could with this pads on top of the hives. It would be fast work to put it on frozen
@@craigkirich9646 if this is the way to use them, the manufacturer should be selling them like that. They should not be selling a product that is so difficult to use it kills bees. this product shouldn’t be sold until it is sold ready to put on hives without all this hassle of killing bees and queens should be taken off the market until it is ready. why should the beekeeper do the experiments with a product that the advert is better than the product?. if you have more air circulation, it doesn’t kill mites
Since beekeeping egsystance it is the beekeeper who invents, tests and tells about it. Then after someone has the bright idea to copy and make money. You're not thinking that we're whayting for a lab and the product seller to prepare us something ? It doesn't work that way
Some talk about covering the top of the pads to slow initial evaporation . Beeautiful bee day yesterday and horrible weather on fathers day . Now that they are broodless maybe a couple oxalic treatments ?? Mites suck . Keep the videos coming !
Hello Ian Good luck. I see that you're giving attention to the treatment this season more than any other season so wish best luck for you. In Lebanon we don't use formic acid, in summer we get some hot days where temperature may reach 33 degree Celsius. I alternate the treatment between oxalic acid and apivar after taking the honey supers, this gives good result because it confusing the mites. Chemically formic acid is too sensitive for temperature, just getting few minutes of hot weather is enough to trigger the formic evaporation above the threshold.
I am near Wisc Rapids Wis and do formic at the end of august or early sept when temps are good . 2 formic pads on top of 2nd box under queen excluder with honey supers on . smaller colonies with 1 box or 2 boxes still get 2 pads on top and then I add an empty deep on top of those . no upper ventilation on any hive . I put formic pads on later evening . I leave supers on for at least a week or more .
Exactly. You have to try to find how to use it. In my opinion your conditions are great for it. My problem is that l never tried that product.. always used my own methods for formic. People will drive you nuts with their opinions but nobody tried it.. they all whayting on you to see what happens. The place for formic was always the top of the double box. But we do use a little bit of a rim for better ventilation- circulation around the hive. Bees are masters of moving air. Maybe that's all the problem.. because we use it even at 29 -30c on top. I wish I had that pad in my hands. Good luck
Please Ian, find out what happened in the hives, I'm in Australia, we haven't any experience, in varroa, like you do, so I do hope you work it out, your the best, I will wait for your results.
Food for thought, I use 2 strips, it doesn’t make sense to me to use one if you’re not killing mites under the caps. Having said that most of my colonies seem to have queen problems….. or do they? My thought is, the Formic fumigation neutralizes the queens pheromones to the point where the nurse bees think they’re queenless, after 4-5 days they become back to normal. However now we have a bunch of emergency cells! A beekeepers first thought when they see emergency cells is something happened to the queen! On the contrary I’ve found this to not be 100% true when it comes to Formic! You must still look for eggs! I’ve had frames of open brood along with emergency cells! Just my experience! I appreciate the controls you show us on videos! For anyone thinking mites aren’t a problem….. think again! I truly believe we are getting the upper hand , we still must be diligent in treatment! I know this is windy, but I rim my telescoping covers with 3/4”w X 5/8” thick except the back it’s 3/4”x3/4” also a 5/8” hole through rear of cover and through the 3/4x3/4 strictly for ventilation. I normally treat now but the next two weeks here are near or above 90 degrees, 😳
We just used Formic for the first time this year and we're getting a heat wave so we went in to see if we needed t take them off (they've been on over a week, so we took them off three hives and left them on two) and all 5 hives had no older brood but all had eggs and younger brood. And most of the hives had a lot of little empty emergency cups scattered around, so your theory that they think they're queenless for a few days tracks. We put a super or addiional brood box on each hive and everything looks back to normal at this point.
I use formic in my requeening process and drop in queen cells a week after the pad. Break the colony up into nucs with cells after the treatment. Only do formic in early spring or late fall with and anticipation of dropping in cells right after.
My experience with formic acid ( autum application) got results like smaller hives goung in to winter and a lot of chalk brood in spring...and lost or damaged queens. Oxalic acid wapor is now my go to every year and Apivar or Apistan every 3d year. I have only varroa. And a lot fewer hives ...Max 120..and in a very remote area where reinfestation only comes from my own hives..But long outdoor wintering winters. Sweden , europe.
In uk the advice is give an extra box for space. So if you had 2 boxes in use i am unclear if i would have added a 3rd box for that space. I think space is key.
I think you did everything right temperature wise etc but I think you need to add more space by adding a third box I love Formic with two strips it just cleans out the whole hive completely from bad queens, virus infested bees, larvae etc After the treatment with two strips they bounce back incredibly strong and healthy! I don’t care about some bad queen losses , I can replace them quickly but I can’t replace a whole virus infested colony
Maybe add a 1/4" dowel under 1 side of your lid, to get some extra ventilation. Everything I've read, seems to suggest a top entrance to allow more air through.
Hallo Ian! What is the situation with the non formic hives at same time? ...as a comparison - open brood, cap brood, food, brood in the top, ect?! Thanks the next video! 😉
I used out of date Apivar strips one fall and my bees paid for it. 18 hives out of 50 didn't make it through the following spring even though I did OAV in December.
Having used it when it’s new and towards the end of its expiry date it is a different beast towards the end. It’s a much hotter treatment and results in higher Queen loss, the in the odd occasion I found the Queen on the outside of the hive.
@scottgibler6675 I pull honey early to mid August and apply FP if Temps cooperate. OAV after Thanksgiving to New Year again depending on weather. Bad about doing washes but it seems to keep them down. Have not done a spring treatment but considering that for next year. Cold and rainy I. Spri g this year. Weather has been crazy, cold and wet during basswood and locust bloom. Hopefully this hot weather will get the girls out and working.
Sounds great. One question will outer cover top of pad if so that’s good. The flash is lower in toxicity when top of pad covered. Vapours released from bottom and edges slower. Randy has experimented this practice in temps over 30*C, queen survival way up if at all. There seems to be less and less treatments being effective and most temp, sensitive. I’m looking fwd when the give green light to use OAE release. Perfect for summer temperatures no issues. Just a matter of time no brainer.
I had used Formic pro for 3 years with good results. I had done the two pad 14 day regimen. Last year(year 4) did the same. It just didn’t work. Mite counts after treatment were higher than before. It was new product that doesn’t expire until 2025. Used a pack again this year, I want to change to MAQS but haven’t purchased it yet, no bees even left the hive after putting it on. I think it was a defective batch.
Hi Ian. Was it humid? We find that humidity effects how hard formic hits, just as much as temperature. As well colony strenth makes a massive difference. If any of the colonies were below the appropiate size for the treantment, you need to adjust what you do. If you apply the treatment differently you will change the efficacy though. Maybe apply it as directed for the bigger colonies and adjust the placement of the pad for the smaller colonies only...Good old Randy has interesting thoughts on how to adjust the treatments.
Randy is right. In my country we simplified this treatment many years ago. We use plastic bags and apply liquid formic. You put 60% formic with a syringe on sponges and open the slit on the bag judging it by the size of the colony. So l can use how much l want.. similar to the tymol treatment. This pads seem too strong to use them without some kind of wrapping like Randy suggested
Just curious, whats the reason for profilactively treating colonies that youve purposefully brought queens in for mite resistance? how are you able to continue to find any resistance in those bees if you are aiding fighting mites. no future testing on those bees will be accurate.
Formic acid has too finer line between killing mites and interfearing with the queen feremone. It simply overwhelms them. Oxalic vapour 3 times over 2 weeks and brood breaks works for me.
The main issue the way that I see it, is that you need to leave some spring pollen all be it a little sparse, as once the crop starts blooming it is pretty much mono-culture and I would be concerned as to the quality of the pollen.
Adding another variable to your analysis: I like MAQS better than formic pro. They are harsher and shorter expiration but for some reason I have had better luck with MAQS. One strip/two applications though.. 0:00 Ventilation is key. My sense is the fumes rise so the feed and bubble wrap top cover might be causing problems. I crack the top a bit the first few days I only do formic in july or august and one shot of OA in december. I think its the bare minimum but it seems to keep them alive. In new england.
Bee scientists here in Europe have been pointing out for some time now that the prescription manual with Formic Pro is wrong and must not be followed! If you want to use two stripes they need to be put on the frames of a second, broodless box!
I have marked queens from 2022 (mutts) that are still performing and just made it through a MAQS treatment just fine and they have had a MAQS treatments every year (3rd time now at least). My thought is your single boxes are not giving the bees enough space to "get away" from the strongest fumes and the patties didn't help air flow either. For myself I'm usually treating this time of year and our flow is still on or about to end. I run all medium 8 frames so hive could have as many as 6 boxes on when treatment is applied - 2 strips between 2nd and 3rd box below the excluder. Heat temps will definitely kill the hive if you go above the temperature restriction for the upper level temperature. I also have screened bottom boards with inserts in so I can see what kind of mite drop I'm getting. Most mite drop happens within the first 48 hours. I run about 30 hives. I"m going to be sorry to see MAQS go (supposed to be discontinued). I think the Formic Pro formula is harder on the bees than MAQS - have used both. There is no way I'd ever be able to come up with two weeks of below 85F in our area during the summer months but I can get a window of 3-4 days below 85F for MAQS to get a treatment in. Weather and being able to fly is important too is my experience.
Curious about your feeding while having FormicPro strips in the hives. Manufacturer's instructions say NOT to feed while treating. Your decision process, please.
I emailed NOD about this… I had expressed that I thought it might be because the feed acts as a ‘sink’ and becomes acidic to the point of killing those that feed on it and was I pointed in the right direction… the answer I got was that following an internal study… “We can’t explain the higher colony mortality, hence the direction not to feed.” They went on to say there were further studies planned to better understand the reason(s) for the higher mortality..
The product itself doesn’t kill the queens the bees do like a supercedure. People have caged queens and they are fine…if it was the formic they’d have died at same rate. When warmer and 2 strips leave the packaging or out foil on one side it cuts down the first and 2nd day. Check out Randy Oliver’s work on this…
I think that you should try to find time to treat with formic after the honey flow. I think they will be stronger to handle the treatment better and they will have more resources
Going into the colonies while the treatment is on is not reccomended at all. They are already stressed with the formic acid, with you messing wiht them so often with the treatment on can cause some issues with the queens being killed. Formic is also said to kill weak queens. Storng healthy queens will make it through typically.
The company has the 2 years as a hard date. Nothing that expires happens on a date, it's an acceptable degradation date. Why would any supplier sell you a product with a chance of failing? It's not like you're one of the top UTube creator/influencer... I stand by using the aluminum wrap to slow the release from it's heavy 3 day hit.
Why dont you wait another 2 week and put the pads on when you supper up. The weather is warmer and the extra pace from the supers helps the formic not be so harsh
Hives need to be well fed prior to treatment. This is critical. Treating a hungry yard, especially in spring can result in the scenario you describe. And you are right on about the changes in pads with age. Pads right out of the freezer give a longer, more even treatment. Pads near or over expiration begin to sweat in the package. This results in a BANG of initial flash as well as strips that are harder to separate at times. I think the older pads are better for single pad treatments with shorter intervals.
Ian, why don't you come down to Oregon this fall and attend our conference where you can visit with beekeepers that have many, many years of experience using this stuff. No need to re-invent the wheel. Bring the family; we would love to see you again!
I’ve come to the conclusion that Formic isn’t for me. I’m too fussy with my brood nest. I have learnt that regardless the method or approach, the Formic disrupts the colony from tending the open brood and I think that is why I’m seeing open brood losses. Which I’m told is normal but I work too hard and spend too much money to regularly adopt a mite treatment that sets the colony back,
I will need to move towards a different type of treatment
@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I'm confused? You are concerned about FP setting the colonies back and then in your last video you were pulling frames out to weaken colonies that were too strong ending up with excess brood frames. Maybe formic would slow them down enough so you could avoid that extra step and labor? Just thinking. I'll be curious to see how the FP colonies look in a month or 2.
Yes, killing brood is not preferred. And yes , pulling down big ones, boosting small. If there were a Formic treatment on them I wouldn’t be pulling those units down to boost others
Yay. I will be really interested to see what happens if you put the pad on the top box instead. I vote yes 👍✅
I am so happy you are doing this. I have watched so many videos about formic acid and it scares me. You are SO honest! I really Appreciate that!!
So many variables with the different treatments and all require careful thought for sure. Our heat limits us so much down here. It’s a challenge all the way around for all beekeepers. I can experiment as needed, but I feel for you guys having to work out treatments within the very livelihood that feeds your families.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and reflections on it, Ian, much appreciated!
I used Formic pro the last three years always on top of second box 2 strips fully open entrance. I live in NE PA. Just under 10% queen loss. A 10% colony loss in winter, lows around -20F. Before using formic near 50% loss using Apivar and OAV.
I have used formic and always liked it. Works well on the brood and below the caps. I ALWAYS vent when I do it and I have supers on. I know others have put in shims at the top. I put in a screen board with a vent. I also have screened bottom boards. I just think if they can't air it through the hive it overwhelms them.
We always treat our bees with an empty honey super on. This adds more room for the acid to expand. Especially on the first day of treatment. Also we always treat the girls late in the day so the temp is a little cooler on the first day of treatment.
In Germany we have used formic for a long time, what we believe kills queens is sudden shock of formic fumes, one way to reduce this with formic pads/sponges is to freeze them before application. As they defrost/warm up it takes a while before the formic starts to evaporate and the hive has time to adjust to the fumes.
Yes, but if the fumes exceed the acceptance level, the bees and the brood may still die albeit later.
yes I wrote before that we used to bring it with a picnic fridge right from the freezer. And always apply it before night. But it was in liquid form applied cold with a syringe on sponges. But he has too many hives. Maybe he could with this pads on top of the hives. It would be fast work to put it on frozen
Take aluminum foil, fold over (3 sides exposed) apply and slow the release. Been working for yeas without any loss, queen or brood.
@@craigkirich9646 if this is the way to use them, the manufacturer should be selling them like that. They should not be selling a product that is so difficult to use it kills bees. this product shouldn’t be sold until it is sold ready to put on hives without all this hassle of killing bees and queens should be taken off the market until it is ready. why should the beekeeper do the experiments with a product that the advert is better than the product?. if you have more air circulation, it doesn’t kill mites
Since beekeeping egsystance it is the beekeeper who invents, tests and tells about it. Then after someone has the bright idea to copy and make money. You're not thinking that we're whayting for a lab and the product seller to prepare us something ? It doesn't work that way
Some talk about covering the top of the pads to slow initial evaporation .
Beeautiful bee day yesterday and horrible weather on fathers day .
Now that they are broodless maybe a couple oxalic treatments ??
Mites suck .
Keep the videos coming !
Hello Ian
Good luck. I see that you're giving attention to the treatment this season more than any other season so wish best luck for you. In Lebanon we don't use formic acid, in summer we get some hot days where temperature may reach 33 degree Celsius. I alternate the treatment between oxalic acid and apivar after taking the honey supers, this gives good result because it confusing the mites.
Chemically formic acid is too sensitive for temperature, just getting few minutes of hot weather is enough to trigger the formic evaporation above the threshold.
I am near Wisc Rapids Wis and do formic at the end of august or early sept when temps are good . 2 formic pads on top of 2nd box under queen excluder with honey supers on . smaller colonies with 1 box or 2 boxes still get 2 pads on top and then I add an empty deep on top of those . no upper ventilation on any hive . I put formic pads on later evening . I leave supers on for at least a week or more .
Exactly. You have to try to find how to use it. In my opinion your conditions are great for it. My problem is that l never tried that product.. always used my own methods for formic.
People will drive you nuts with their opinions but nobody tried it.. they all whayting on you to see what happens. The place for formic was always the top of the double box. But we do use a little bit of a rim for better ventilation- circulation around the hive. Bees are masters of moving air. Maybe that's all the problem.. because we use it even at 29 -30c on top. I wish I had that pad in my hands. Good luck
🎉Happy beekeeper Father’s Day to you. We’re like your RUclips children 😂
Please Ian, find out what happened in the hives, I'm in Australia, we haven't any experience, in varroa, like you do, so I do hope you work it out, your the best, I will wait for your results.
Food for thought, I use 2 strips, it doesn’t make sense to me to use one if you’re not killing mites under the caps.
Having said that most of my colonies seem to have queen problems….. or do they?
My thought is, the Formic fumigation neutralizes the queens pheromones to the point where the nurse bees think they’re queenless, after 4-5 days they become back to normal. However now we have a bunch of emergency cells!
A beekeepers first thought when they see emergency cells is something happened to the queen! On the contrary I’ve found this to not be 100% true when it comes to Formic!
You must still look for eggs! I’ve had frames of open brood along with emergency cells! Just my experience! I appreciate the controls you show us on videos!
For anyone thinking mites aren’t a problem….. think again! I truly believe we are getting the upper hand , we still must be diligent in treatment!
I know this is windy, but I rim my telescoping covers with 3/4”w X 5/8” thick except the back it’s 3/4”x3/4” also a 5/8” hole through rear of cover and through the 3/4x3/4 strictly for ventilation.
I normally treat now but the next two weeks here are near or above 90 degrees, 😳
We just used Formic for the first time this year and we're getting a heat wave so we went in to see if we needed t take them off (they've been on over a week, so we took them off three hives and left them on two) and all 5 hives had no older brood but all had eggs and younger brood. And most of the hives had a lot of little empty emergency cups scattered around, so your theory that they think they're queenless for a few days tracks. We put a super or addiional brood box on each hive and everything looks back to normal at this point.
I use formic in my requeening process and drop in queen cells a week after the pad. Break the colony up into nucs with cells after the treatment. Only do formic in early spring or late fall with and anticipation of dropping in cells right after.
Ian have you heard of the Beequip Oxalic strips in New Zealand? highly recommend checking them out.. Beequip NZ .. great content as always!
My experience with formic acid ( autum application) got results like smaller hives goung in to winter and a lot of chalk brood in spring...and lost or damaged queens. Oxalic acid wapor is now my go to every year and Apivar or Apistan every 3d year. I have only varroa. And a lot fewer hives ...Max 120..and in a very remote area where reinfestation only comes from my own hives..But long outdoor wintering winters. Sweden , europe.
In uk the advice is give an extra box for space. So if you had 2 boxes in use i am unclear if i would have added a 3rd box for that space. I think space is key.
I think you did everything right temperature wise etc but I think you need to add more space by adding a third box
I love Formic with two strips it just cleans out the whole hive completely from bad queens, virus infested bees, larvae etc
After the treatment with two strips they bounce back incredibly strong and healthy!
I don’t care about some bad queen losses , I can replace them quickly but I can’t replace a whole virus infested colony
I think it kills strong queens too lol
Any queen that makes it threw our winters are strong
Maybe add a 1/4" dowel under 1 side of your lid, to get some extra ventilation. Everything I've read, seems to suggest a top entrance to allow more air through.
Hallo Ian! What is the situation with the non formic hives at same time?
...as a comparison - open brood, cap brood, food, brood in the top, ect?!
Thanks the next video! 😉
I used out of date Apivar strips one fall and my bees paid for it. 18 hives out of 50 didn't make it through the following spring even though I did OAV in December.
Apivar can chemically degrade. Formic weakens.
I mean it basically didnt matter that you used OAV in December, beacuse winter bees were not healthy. Winter treatment is for next season.
I've had luck with the product, but I crack the top for more ventilation, especially the first 3 days.
I put the same product on mid flow in NZ and never had any issues. It'd usually mid 20's
Having used it when it’s new and towards the end of its expiry date it is a different beast towards the end. It’s a much hotter treatment and results in higher Queen loss, the in the odd occasion I found the Queen on the outside of the hive.
FWIW, 50 hive beek in NE Indiana. I put 2 pads on top of my standard deep and a medium brood nest.
any issues? Efficacy?
@scottgibler6675 I pull honey early to mid August and apply FP if Temps cooperate. OAV after Thanksgiving to New Year again depending on weather. Bad about doing washes but it seems to keep them down. Have not done a spring treatment but considering that for next year. Cold and rainy I. Spri g this year. Weather has been crazy, cold and wet during basswood and locust bloom. Hopefully this hot weather will get the girls out and working.
Sounds great. One question will outer cover top of pad if so that’s good. The flash is lower in toxicity when top of pad covered. Vapours released from bottom and edges slower. Randy has experimented this practice in temps over 30*C, queen survival way up if at all. There seems to be less and less treatments being effective and most temp, sensitive. I’m looking fwd when the give green light to use OAE release. Perfect for summer temperatures no issues. Just a matter of time no brainer.
Sounds like the 🐝 Bees where already weak too. Idk if that hurts but can't help. Thanks 4 the video
I had used Formic pro for 3 years with good results. I had done the two pad 14 day regimen. Last year(year 4) did the same. It just didn’t work. Mite counts after treatment were higher than before. It was new product that doesn’t expire until 2025. Used a pack again this year, I want to change to MAQS but haven’t purchased it yet, no bees even left the hive after putting it on. I think it was a defective batch.
I use formic in my requeening process and drop in queen cells a week after the pad. Break the colony up into nucs with cells after the treatment.
Hi Ian. Was it humid? We find that humidity effects how hard formic hits, just as much as temperature. As well colony strenth makes a massive difference. If any of the colonies were below the appropiate size for the treantment, you need to adjust what you do. If you apply the treatment differently you will change the efficacy though. Maybe apply it as directed for the bigger colonies and adjust the placement of the pad for the smaller colonies only...Good old Randy has interesting thoughts on how to adjust the treatments.
Randy is right. In my country we simplified this treatment many years ago. We use plastic bags and apply liquid formic. You put 60% formic with a syringe on sponges and open the slit on the bag judging it by the size of the colony. So l can use how much l want.. similar to the tymol treatment.
This pads seem too strong to use them without some kind of wrapping like Randy suggested
I wonder if your foamy seals the top of the frames and does not allow for air movement.
Those paper covers on formic pro are a bit tricky. They sometimes come loose a bit. Have to be very careful.
Just curious, whats the reason for profilactively treating colonies that youve purposefully brought queens in for mite resistance? how are you able to continue to find any resistance in those bees if you are aiding fighting mites. no future testing on those bees will be accurate.
Formic acid has too finer line between killing mites and interfearing with the queen feremone. It simply overwhelms them. Oxalic vapour 3 times over 2 weeks and brood breaks works for me.
The main issue the way that I see it, is that you need to leave some spring pollen all be it a little sparse, as once the crop starts blooming it is pretty much mono-culture and I would be concerned as to the quality of the pollen.
Adding another variable to your analysis: I like MAQS better than formic pro. They are harsher and shorter expiration but for some reason I have had better luck with MAQS. One strip/two applications though..
0:00
Ventilation is key. My sense is the fumes rise so the feed and bubble wrap top cover might be causing problems. I crack the top a bit the first few days
I only do formic in july or august and one shot of OA in december. I think its the bare minimum but it seems to keep them alive. In new england.
What's the trick with loading the smoker
Bee scientists here in Europe have been pointing out for some time now that the prescription manual with Formic Pro is wrong and must not be followed! If you want to use two stripes they need to be put on the frames of a second, broodless box!
I have marked queens from 2022 (mutts) that are still performing and just made it through a MAQS treatment just fine and they have had a MAQS treatments every year (3rd time now at least). My thought is your single boxes are not giving the bees enough space to "get away" from the strongest fumes and the patties didn't help air flow either. For myself I'm usually treating this time of year and our flow is still on or about to end. I run all medium 8 frames so hive could have as many as 6 boxes on when treatment is applied - 2 strips between 2nd and 3rd box below the excluder. Heat temps will definitely kill the hive if you go above the temperature restriction for the upper level temperature. I also have screened bottom boards with inserts in so I can see what kind of mite drop I'm getting. Most mite drop happens within the first 48 hours. I run about 30 hives. I"m going to be sorry to see MAQS go (supposed to be discontinued). I think the Formic Pro formula is harder on the bees than MAQS - have used both. There is no way I'd ever be able to come up with two weeks of below 85F in our area during the summer months but I can get a window of 3-4 days below 85F for MAQS to get a treatment in. Weather and being able to fly is important too is my experience.
I think an extra box on top is the answer reflecting on it
I really wonder if not having top ventilation is a factor for you? Could you try a few with and without in the same yard?
Could humidity affect the release of Formic Acid? Mr. Oliver is in a dryer climate and can use Formic at Higher temps?
On the queens you lost Were those treated with one pad or two. ?
I use the one pad application only
We sure could use a few advocates in the industry for OAE use. It works better than anything ive ever used.
I thought as it got older it got more powerful. And temp has alot to do with use of it I think 1 pad is less harmful
Have you tried apiguard tymol treatment, it might be better on the bees in your area.
Curious about your feeding while having FormicPro strips in the hives. Manufacturer's instructions say NOT to feed while treating. Your decision process, please.
Feeding is ongoing. If it’s the cause of problems, I’ll need to find another option
I emailed NOD about this… I had expressed that I thought it might be because the feed acts as a ‘sink’ and becomes acidic to the point of killing those that feed on it and was I pointed in the right direction… the answer I got was that following an internal study… “We can’t explain the higher colony mortality, hence the direction not to feed.”
They went on to say there were further studies planned to better understand the reason(s) for the higher mortality..
I think they need more ventilation. Maybe put shims under the lid.
The product itself doesn’t kill the queens the bees do like a supercedure. People have caged queens and they are fine…if it was the formic they’d have died at same rate.
When warmer and 2 strips leave the packaging or out foil on one side it cuts down the first and 2nd day.
Check out Randy Oliver’s work on this…
When I first used it 2 patties killed my queens. 1 patty for 7 days then a second one didn't kill anything but mites.
Is the initial spike needed? Has anyone tried opening the product 24h before use? To let the initial spike dissipate.
Few mites on bees aren't gonna slow them down this time of year...
Few mites now means lots of mites later
Muito bom
what are you using for smoker fuel?
Did it actually kill the mites
Some acid gets stronger with age , another factor to consider
look at hopsguard 3 as an alternative. does not have the temp problem
I think that you should try to find time to treat with formic after the honey flow. I think they will be stronger to handle the treatment better and they will have more resources
When you say you missed spring flow do you mean you will not have any honey until fall ?
No, summer honey is close
Did your mite count go down from it
Going into the colonies while the treatment is on is not reccomended at all. They are already stressed with the formic acid, with you messing wiht them so often with the treatment on can cause some issues with the queens being killed. Formic is also said to kill weak queens. Storng healthy queens will make it through typically.
The company has the 2 years as a hard date. Nothing that expires happens on a date, it's an acceptable degradation date. Why would any supplier sell you a product with a chance of failing? It's not like you're one of the top UTube creator/influencer... I stand by using the aluminum wrap to slow the release from it's heavy 3 day hit.
Why dont you wait another 2 week and put the pads on when you supper up. The weather is warmer and the extra pace from the supers helps the formic not be so harsh
Formic had a bad reputation a few years ago in the uk I’ve never used it
Your not a idiot it don’t matter if you put it on top or bottom it will fry your bees
I think you should not use that stuff I think your in a position you don’t have to use that stuff that’s just my thought
I think you should not use that stuff I think your in a position you don’t have to use that stuff that’s just my thought