Here's a Tip for Validating Moisture Within Walls
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- As environmental professionals, most of us should be carrying a variety of tools on a day-to-day basis. While thermal imaging can be a useful tool in assisting with narrowing in on walls with excess moisture, via identification of thermal anomalies, additional confirmation is still needed.
Even moisture meters can present false-positives, depending on the construction materials located behind the walls. For example, a metal corner bead or electrical strike plate can indicate a high level of moisture. In reality, a piece of metal is simply acting as a conductor and completing the circuit - which a moisture meter will think means "wet".
As professionals, we also know that the more objective and subjective data that can be provided, the more credible our reporting can be. Knowing this tip is something that can be easily to implement within your current assessments.
!! Electricity is dangerous and can cause death. Power to receptacles should always be turned off before working around them. !!
00:00 Overview
00:35 Water Damage Introduction
01:53 Comparative Moisture Readings
02:39 Tip of the Trade
04:27 Wrap-up
Wish you made a couple dozen videos where you bring us along on inspections. That was really helpful.
Working on it! I have some first person POV videos that I have planned coming up.
Awesome inspection!
Thank you!
Very good information! Thank you for sharing !!
Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks! Very helpful.
Wonderful to hear!
This is excellent Josh! That Tramax sounds like the cadillac of moisture meters. Thanks for sharing!
This Tramex and their brand as a whole is exceptional! Very few things that I dislike about their meters.
Super helpful. Thanks,.
Thanks Mike! Appreciate the comment.
Great Video very informative
Thank you, kindly!
Great info.
Thanks Benji!
Great time to use a moisture meter is after a heavy rain. Sometimes the ceiling only gets a few drops per 5 minute period, and its not enough to make any visible damage. Check ceiling just below roof vent areas! Also, I just learned that sheetrock corners where the install corner bead (metal strips installed on wall edges to make a strait edge) will give false moisture readings. If you know that a drip has been occurring for 24 hours, get a space heater on a speaker stand, and heat up the ceiling or wall surface to around 120 degrees. Attic side, pull back insulation to expose ceiling sheet rock, and place a fan up in attic to blow across. It will take about 5 days to dry out the back side of sheet rock with a space heater. Oh, yeah, don't forget to repair the roof leak.
Yessir! Metal corner beads are one element that I need always remind people of - especially those new to moisture meter use.
As to your mention of utilizing heat to dry building materials, this certainly works well. 120 degrees is a bit up there, for my liking, but I’m sure you’ll achieving some rapid drying!
Only 24 hours of material being wet it has mold and should be replaced.
Interesting to see how you approach damp diagnosis in USA. As a building surveyor in cold and wet England, we get lots of damp and mould issues for me to survey. I personally always also check the exterior of the building for leaks, cracks, drainage issues etc., before recommending you need to remove the drywall (we call it plasterboard). Is it common practice over there to not check the exterior of a building?
While I cannot speak for others, I can share that I will always check the exterior of a property. Especially as you said, I constantly find cracks, inadequately sealed openings for plumbing and electrical, etc. Paying close attention to the height of the landscaping, in reference to the height of the slab, is especially important in some areas here.
I'm not a professional, but checking exterior without removing siding for example would be hard. When it comes to windows, there are many ways to mess up the install. There should be cauking and duck/insulation tape used. Also, depends how the channels were installed around the window. Remember in US. Can be moved in a day, and you would not be able to tell that they were. Quick process.
Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
Thank you
Thank you for watching!
My 14 yr old custom house had water coming through in master bathroom roof. I have a pass through fireplace in master bedrm/master bath. Last January. I had roofing company come and see - they said I needed ‘debris’ cleaned and some flashings replaced. And some tiles near both chimneys were cut. Cost was $3,200. They cleaned all the debris from the valleys and cut some of the tiles back away from chimneys.This was Jan 2023. Here is what they wrote on my invoice:
“ An inspection of the roof was undergone to determine what maintenance was required. We found the tiles behind the two chimneys to be too close to the chimneys allowing debris to build-up which caused the water to overflow. This was repaired by cutting the tiles by 6" to allow the water to properly flow. Secondly, we found the valley metal ends were on top of the tile and this causes the water to spill over the valley and run allow the underlayment, which can cause the underlayment to prematurely deteriorate. This issue was repaired by cutting back the valley metal ends and installing a lead extension on the five valleys. Lastly, we found the valleys and cricket to have debris. We underwent a clean-up, which will allow the water to properly flow…”
We had a lot of rain in Feb and March and even some in August. All seemed, but to my shock, last week, I noticed a stain on ceiling of a bedroom not anywhere near where the January leak was. But this bedroom backs up to living room in area where there is another fireplace/chimney. I don't know when this happened. I seldom go in that bedroom and I seldom look at my ceilings. But water must have gotten in somehow. . I called the roofing company and left a message. Waiting for them to call me back.
I got a ladder and went up to feel the stain and there is no wetness or puffiness on the ceiling.
November is a month we often get rain. Of course if we get rain before the roofer calls me back I will be sure at watch the ceiling where that stain is. Is it possible that
there was an unnoticed issue in this room but no problem NOW since the roofer worked on BOTH chimneys? Should I get a moisture meter?
A moisture meter is certainly something that most people should own. It also fits nicely inside of a kitchen drawer. 😉
When stains are found, it can be helpful to utilize a moisture meter to determine if these spots are active water intrusion or prior damage - especially when it’s a stain that one doesn’t recall seeing within their home.
Very informative! Thank You!
Thank you for watching!
Great video. Will a moisture meter also work on vinyl plank flooring? I have vinyl plank over a slab and my tenant thinks its getting wet between the slab and the flooring.
Excellent question! Yes, a non-invasive moisture meter will work for detecting areas of greater moisture concentrations beneath the vinyl planks - when they are glued directly to a slab. Given the varying results when collecting moisture readings from concrete, it’s best to collect a number of dry area readings (comparative) and then a number of suspected wet area readings and then separately average them out. This will provide you with a better idea of the suspected wet area as a whole.
@@IAQJosh thank you
Very helpful video! My renovated shower smells like mold. Room is more ventilated than before as an exhaust fan was added. Is there a way I can measure moisture in the tiled walls and tiled shower pan floor?
Thank you for the feedback! As far as measuring moisture concentrations within tiled walls, you’d ideally want to use a professional meter, such as a Tramex Moisture Encounter.
If you use another type of non-penetrating moisture meter (meaning one without pins), you’ll want to collect a number of reference readings on tiled walls that you presume to be dry and free from water damage. Then you would collect readings from areas of concern and compare.
With the above said, you will typically find greater moisture concentrations within tiled walls toward the base of the walls. This can be for a number of reasons, but don’t let consistently high readings through the base of the walls lead you to believe there’s water damage. If the numbers are all high and around the same levels, you’re likely dealing with a false-positive.
Lastly, a tile shower floor atop a shower pan can be extremely difficult to measure for moisture concentrations. My best hit of advice would be to rely more on concentrations that you collect from the surrounding walls and other immediate areas adjoining to the shower. Lots of potential for false-positives when readings tiled floors. If you have a meter like the Tramex, you can use the shallow depth setting, which is often your best bet in instances like this.
@@IAQJosh I’m looking into renting one out now. Thank you SO much for your detailed reply!
Thanks for the video. Can moisture readers read btw plaster walls??
In general, moisture meters can read moisture content within many plaster walls. Some plaster walls, which are primarily composed of wire and lathe, may provide a false positive to non-penetrating/ pinless moisture meters. These false readings may indicate elevated moisture, when in fact you’re merely reading the metal wire within the wall.
I find that it’s best to have a penetrating and non-penetrating moisture meter when evaluating plaster walls. This will allow you to collect varying readings from both meters across multiple areas, ultimately to determine if a wall has water damage.
I use a Flir camera.
Protimiders will reflect off metal and give you a false positive.
The Flir can read electrical outlets and main electrical panels.
You check for hot spots.
I love using my Flir camera to quickly scan building materials for thermal anomalies. Definitely cuts down on the “guess and check” game, when it comes to searching for moisture across large areas. Also great for locating overheating electrical components - as you mentioned.
As you may know, all moisture meters will detect a false positive when they come in contact with meter. It’s not just Protimeter meters. Every tool has its limitations.
TL;Dr look in the outlet cover for corrosion.
Was the exterior of this property stucco over wood framing?
No, it was not. This home is concrete block construction - like many homes down here.
good video
Thanks Bob!
Could the water be coming from the roof leaking into the wall? I just found a paint bubble in a bathroom i had updated a few years ago and when I pushed it water came out.
Absolutely! Believe it or not, water can be entering at the roof level and not show itself until it reaches the base of a wall. This can make it difficult for both homeowners and even professionals to diagnose the point of entry associated with a leak.
In short, water damage within a bathroom can be coming from the roof, as well as numerous other areas. If you have any additional information, or even pictures, I’d be happy to try to be of further assistance to you. You may email me direct at Josh@learniaq.com
The moldy window sill also depicts water problems.
Sure can.
Hello Josh. What's normal moisture for plastered walls? On my walls it looks like the paint it's starting to look like it's not spread evenly and it wasn't like that before. And what type of company would I call to test the walls?
Hey there! Unfortunately, there is no standard number or range when it comes to normal moisture content within your wallboard. Also, it depends on the type of meter you are using, as pin vs. pinless meters will typically yield different numbers.
On a scale of 0-100 for the plaster scale, most commonly I find plaster to be in the 0-10 range. Very seldom does dry plasterboard show any noteworthy level of moisture concentration. With that said, the moisture levels within the indoor air quality will certainly influence the moisture content within building materials such as plaster.
My best advice would be to collect moisture meter readings from similar walls in other areas of your home where you don’t believe there to be a problem. If you’re seeing these paint spread marks on a perimeter wall, check perimeter walls in other rooms. If this damage is on an interior wall, check interior walls in other rooms. Simply make sure you are comparing similar walls.
Lastly, a company that can check moisture readings for you would be most professional assessment and remediation companies. If you want to put your worries to bed, or at least warrant the concerns, you may want to consider hiring one of these types of companies to perform a moisture survey. This will highlight areas of concern with respect to elevated moisture concentrations within your property.
@@IAQJosh Thank you so much for responding! I appreciate your insight!
@@ldjohnson214 Anytime! Happy to answer any and all questions that you and others have.
Go buy a cheap moisture meter and test your own walls the instructions are easy to learn there is no real skills here hold the meter against the wall and read it, that's all there is to it.
what is the model number and manufacturer of the moisture meter?
The orange meter is a Delmhorst BD-2100 and the black meter is a Tramex ME5.
I just noticed the same issue right near my outlet (wall was wet and dripping) but the moisture detector only picked up one specific small spot of moisture right near the outlet..... Everything else on the wall and ceiling is completely dry, Does it still mean the whole wall has to come out or maybe just a small hole cut right where the moisture is?
Great question! I personally performed an assessment sometime last year, where I was asked to evaluate perimeter walls within a few different condos - with the primary concern being the presence of mold growth within these walls.
In the past, a contractor cut out only the wet areas, which essentially involved numerous random cutouts on some of these walls. Flash forward to me coming in and setting up a sampling pump alongside a few outlet covers as part of my assessment. I found there to be some pretty large quantities of mold spores present.
Moral of the story - it’s often better to simply remove a larger portion of wallboard during remediation. This will ensure that you remove both the moisture-impacted materials, as well as the presence of mold growth.
You may want to start with removing the drywall from the floor up to the base of the window sill. If there’s no evidence of moisture or mold, that should be sufficient.
Thank you for replying. There's no window sill this is just light switch on wall in my bathroom. Thanks for info
@@Shenanigans000 Gotcha. Well, the most important part is making sure that the source for the dampness and dripping has been corrected. From there, you may want to cut a hole in that wall and inspect the interior of the wall cavity with a flashlight.
Appreciate you! Thanks
What do you consider to be "normal moisture levels" in a wall. Thanks!
Well, given that each property will vary with its airborne humidity levels, it depends. In drier environments, I’ve seen moisture concentration levels (in drywall) lower than 7. In wetter environments, I’ve see levels (in drywall) as high as 40.
Now, if you’re using Delmhorst’s drywall scale on their pin style meters, you should typically see moisture concentration levels above 0.3%. Their scale have proven to be extremely accurate and useful for verifying moisture content with drywall.
Keep in mind that all of the above pertains solely to drywall. If you have plaster walls, the levels may very dramatically. One of the best things someone can do is to collect a few moisture readings from known dry areas (areas away from any plumbing, windows, doors, etc.). As long as there are no signs of water damage, you should be able to see some pretty consistent readings - which can be averaged out to find your “dry standard”. This same principle would need to be applied to an interior wall, if you were comparing walls separating rooms, as opposed to perimeter walls.
Thanks for sharing. As for measuring drywall - those pins actually puncture the drywall yes? in other words, not suitable for taking around on a house viewing, better to take the non invasive one and skip the pin readings
The best process that I’ve found is using a thermal camera as the initial screening - looking for anomalies that may be related to elevated moisture. I’ll then use a non-penetrating moisture meter to confirm if the anomalies are indeed elevated moisture concentrations. In addition, I’ll use this meter throughout the area below windows, as thermal cameras do not always highlight problems. Lastly, I’ll use a penetrating (pin) meter on the drywall scale to confirm that I’m not picking up any false readings with the non-penetrating meter.
Following this process, I’ve been able to greatly limit the amount of damage left behind on walls. Arguably, you can use a non-penetrating meter like the Tramex on different depth settings to ascertain more reliable information, without having to place pins in the walls - assuming pin usage is a no-go in your situation. While not a guarantee, using different depth settings will allow you limit the potential for false readings by limiting the influence of objects behind the drywall - such as metal strike plates, etc.
@@IAQJosh I'd not limit myself to checking only under windows. Guess what I found at the bottom of my wall when I removed drywall? The asphalt fiberboard had a hole at the bottom and a blob of brick mortar was sticking out of it, and because the brick also had a crack above, rainwater was flowing over the mortar into the wall. A little gift from the builder, I wonder how many more I have, hence, looking for a moisture meter...
Only a snowflake would worry about 2 needlepricks in the wall, the are so small the only way u would know where the are there is if someone that made them pointed them out to u. If you are really worried about a couple of needlepricks in your walls you have bigger problems then wet sheetrock.
Or one can pull out a handy dandy thermal cam and scan the whole room and find all of the damage. Topdon TC001 or TC004 is great for this.
Thermal cameras can certainly be helpful, however, they also miss a great deal of what’s going on. I use one in nearly every assessment.
Can you share which moisture meters you are using? Thanks!
Of course! My favorite moisture meter to use in most situations is the Tramex Moisture Encounter Plus (MEP). For confirmation pin readings, I prefer the Delmhorst BD-2100. When it comes to concrete and stone floors, I use a Tramex Concrete Moisture Encounter (CME).
As one would assume, I also have an assortment of attachments for all of these meters (extensions, hammer probe, etc.)
@@IAQJosh Thanks for the quick and detailed response. I am a homeowner and was hoping if there is a single meter using which I can measure extent of moisture in dry wall, wood flooring, inside of sidings, concrete and masonry. Do you have a recommendation for a single meter which does a good job across these materials?
@@nitinsinghkumar3390 Your best bet will certainly be the Tramex MEP - as it will allow for non-invasive moisture readings of a variety of materials. Any meter with pins will not be ideal for concrete or masonry.
@@IAQJosh Thanks!
@@IAQJosh those are GREAT meters! How about one that ISN'T $525 for us renter-type folks, please? I'm in a less than 2 year old "luxury" apartment building, with some of the WORST finish work, and a slab Jimmy Hoffa just might be under, that I *can. Not. Stop. Sneezing. In*... I need to do some bloody TESTING!
thank you! i dont wanna pay for an inspector on auction properties I might not win. I reckon many could give ‘cover my ass’ reports that say ooh there could be this and that-hedge their bets.this is so helpful ❤
Appreciate the feedback! Thank you.
Sophia, you just need to find the right inspector/assessor-good luck
RUclips didn’t show me your videos until I just spent $400 elsewhere and may not have the info I need
Well you found me now!
Do you think that the water damage could be from a leaking window
100%! Leaking windows are by far one of the most common contributors to water damage within properties - specifically within residential homes.
What is the acceptable moisture level in aà house
Hey there! The acceptable moisture levels within a home will vary, depending on numerous factors. Climate is one factor and indoor ambient conditions are another factor. If you're using a moisture meter with a drywall scale, similar to that of Delmhorst's scale, 0.3-0.5 tend to be average moisture concentration levels within your average home in South Florida. Using a relative (0-100) scale, you'll see varying results, which will make it more difficult to identify what's normal.
My best bit of advice would be to collect background moisture points within your home, in similar construction materials. For example, if you're trying to figure out if a window is leaking, collect moisture concentration readings around windows that have an overhang. Then compare these readings to those that you collect from a suspected leaking window. The idea here is that the likelihood of a window with an overhand leaking, as compared to one without is much lower. Granted, other factors may come into play (e.g. sprinklers).
Hope the above info helps!
So, what is considered normal moisture content? My meter doesn't sound off until there's 70% moisture.
Hey there! “Normal” moisture content is relative. Every property is different, as well as many meters use different scales.
With that above said, I’ve found many meters with a 0-100 scale to read in or around 20 on dry wallboard (drywall). If you have a meter that penetrates deeper than 3/4”, like Tramex units, then you can expect to find to higher numbers here and there. These are often influenced by the framing behind or above drywall.
When it comes to plaster, tile, concrete, etc., you could have numbers across the board. Best practice for evaluating any material for moisture is to use other materials for comparative readings.
An example: If you think you have moisture under a window in the guest bedroom, collect readings from below windows in other rooms and compare the readings to those taken from the concerning area. The same goes for evaluating moisture beneath tile, in concrete, etc. Concrete is certainly the most difficult to evaluate for moisture content. There’s a lot of literature online that can assist anyone looking to determine if their concrete has too much moisture.
Which moisture readers are those?
Tramex ME5 and Delmhorst BD-2100.
Wait a minute! You mean the ENTIRE wall has to come out?! What a scam.
In this situation, the vast majority of remediation professionals are going to remove the entire portion of drywall beneath the window. In most cases, we would just take it close to the adjacent walls, making the build-back Contractors life easier.
When I say “entire wall”, this is what I’m referring to. Needless to say that there is no reason to remove any of the drywall above the window at this point.
Sounds expensive. Isn't there anyway to repair the wall, perhaps with rainguards or drainage system?
Plenty of ways to add address water intrusion! Drainage systems are always a plus. All in all, it really comes down to the areas of intrusion. It’s always best to consult with a waterproofing contractor, as this falls within their scope of service.
What if your walls have an oil like substance dripping down your walls.
You may be dealing with surfactant leaching, which is something I’ve personally only recently learned about. Bellow is a link that talks more about it, and hopefully gets you started in the right direction.
Please do report back and let me know if this indeed was what you were dealing with.
www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/contractors/job-solutions/troubleshooting/surfactant-leaching
What service should I call for moisture or blistering of the walls? Roofer, plumber…???
For starters, it depends on where you’re seeing these damages… Is this in a bathroom? Bedroom?
Around what height on the walls are you seeing the damages?
Upstairs bedroom underneath the window sill. Also, I noticed the carpet was damp under that same area.
There was a storm a few weeks ago. It’s supposed to rain again this weekend but not sure what service to call to have an inspection. Roofer, plumber, window person? 😩
@@chetlynn Given the proximity to the window, it’s very likely that you may have water intrusion from the window or seal around the window. If that’s the case, neither a roofer or plumber would suit your needs.
You can always hire a contractor to perform a water damage assessment - which would likely assist in identifying the source(s) of water intrusion.
@@IAQJosh great! Thank you so much for the quick response!
I think the problem is down too the awful outlets, can’t beat a British plug 😁🤣🤦♂️
I think you’re on to something! 😂
How much can I expect to pay to have someone determine if there's a leak in wall behind a shower?
Hi Shelley! This ultimately depends on who you hire. If you hire a leak detection company, the going rate in my area is around $550-650. A mold assessment in my area is around the same price, but with the added value of evaluating for the presence of mold as well. Another option would be to hire a plumber who offers leak detection services.
A quick caveat to the above though; as a mold assessor won’t have access to as many fancy tools as a leak detection company.
I just found this out whole house destroyed and we just purchased it 3 months ago and we are a family of 5
Hi Demetrius! I’m so sorry to hear of that news. Depending on what you mean when you say the house is destroyed, you may want to consider speaking with a mechanical contractor - like a quality HVAC/ ventilation company.
There are instances in which you can dilute or fight off indoor environmental hazards by creating a positive pressure environment. By bringing in outdoor, filtered and conditioned air, often times you can dilute or remove contaminates by pushing out outward on your building envelope. In layman’s terms, the outside air your are bringing in mechanically can push everything into the wall and ceiling cavities and keep those contaminates from impacting your indoor air quality.
Just a thought, if that sounds like it would help.
What part of Florida are you in? I would consider working for you for free for a about a week to get my feet wet. Great video.
Thanks Frank! I’m in South Florida, specifically the Fort Lauderdale area - where it’s always rainy. 😂
Ripping out the entire wall is a bit excessive. You probably meant the drywall needs to be ripped out.
lol, yes. I’m referring to the drywall, furring strip and any insulation. Not the concrete block itself.
This dude never did find out if that wall was leaking, that corrosion on that outlet could have bin from a long ago fixed leak. And on the wall he should have used a pin type moisture meeter because the are more accurate. Its redicules to assert the tiny unnoticable pinholes a pin moisture meter leaves, warrant not using it. If i cant leave tiny pinholes in a wall that no one else will notice, i simply wont do the job. If presently everything is dry the suspected leak outside the home is fixed before the next rain and there is no mold now there never will be mold because mold wont grow on dry surfaces. So no reason to tear out the wall, change the outlet, fix the leak outside, spakle the small spot where your finget found a bubble. Done deal.
I commend you for having such a strong-worded, albeit ignorant public opinion. Your thought process on pin meters being more accurate is very interesting. However, your logic is flawed, as there’s pros and cons to both pin and non-penetrating moisture meters.
I encourage you to educate yourself further on the varying types of meters out there.
I agree, I use a pinless moisture indicator a I really like it. It's made by klien
Klein
if you look aprox 6 inches below you meter reading on your video you can clearly seethere is a damp patch
There’s definitely a discoloration alongside the outlet. I don’t recall the specifics of that area.