Early Analysis: Flight Training Accident October 6, 2022 Newport News Williamsburg, VA
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- ASI Senior Vice President, Richard McSpadden, CFII, MEI, SES, MES, former Commander/Flight Leader for the USAF Thunderbirds, provides early analysis of an accident on October 6, 2022, when a Cessna 172 crashed during an instructional flight at the Newport News / Williamsburg International Airport in Virginia.
In this Early Analysis video, the AOPA Air Safety Institute makes a preliminary assessment of the accident, addressing notable portions of the tragic flight and highlighting areas the NTSB will likely investigate to determine a probable cause.
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UPDATE: The National Transportation Safety Board has released its preliminary report (ERA23FA008) regarding the investigation into the Training Accident Newport News-Williamsburg Airport of a Cessna 172-N (N97883).
data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/106080/pdf
His remarks about the seat rails reminded me of something that happened to me in the 70s. As a student pilot in a Cessna 150, my instructor and I had just departed a small airport when my seat slid all the way back. Fortunately, I let go of the yoke and my instructor took the controls. That could have been fatal.
I had the same problem but I only had a seat belt and was able to push the yoke forward immediately until the instructor took over until I reset my seat. After the flight, we filled out an incident report about the seat sliding back. A couple of years later all the Cessna's I flew had the modified seat lock.
@@johnemerson1363 This happened before the AD. I had same thing happen during solo flight in a 172.By habit, I would twist the throttle slightly to it keep from moving on takeoff. When the seat slid back, I grabbed the windshield pillar with my left hand and the wheel with my right. By stretching, I was able to apply pressure on the right rudder with my right foot. I jammed my left back along the side of the seat to keep it from moving further. I was able to hold runway heading and reach a safe pattern altitude that way. To maintain right rudder was essential, to keep it from rolling over, that may have been the start of some of these accidents. I would jam a large wooden chock behind the seat after that. Dan Gryder thinks this is a freeze up or overcontrol by the student, I would tend to agree.
We had a guy die in a 172 at my local airfield in Victoria a number of years ago Re seat rails .
@@Rv7traralgon Do you have an RV-7? I built a -6A.
@@jimbower9268 yes built a 7 and a 12IS and now another 7
3:30 The issue with the seat rails is quite old. I was working as a shop assistant for an airplane mechanic in 1988. When this AD was issued. It became my job to change the seat rails in Cessnas.
I actually got pretty good at it. I could get the seats out, replace the rails then reinstall the seats very quickly (It was in no way a difficult job).
But I got yelled at by my boss for leaving my prosthetic leg outside the plane on the shop floor while I worked inside the plane.
The boss was a very long time friend of the family. I'd known him my whole life. Very good guy.
Never knew about the bar that could be pushed with your feet. Great tip!
In Memory of Viktoria Theresie Izabelle Ljungman who lost her life on N97883.
We lost a great one in her. Rest In Peace ❤️
I appreciate the no-nonsense straight delivery of the facts.
I've had a seat rail go on me in a C152 while doing solo circuits, honestly, it's still probably the scariest thing to happen to me while in a plane. I had done a touch and go which was a bit stiff and about 80ft off the ground the seat went all the way to the back, taking me and the wheel in my hand with it. I was only just about able to keep the aircraft in a stable climb with my fingertips till I could get my seat back in the right position. It was definitely an eye-opening experience, and certainly made me more aware of checking the seat adjust handle is properly down before going flying. An excellent video, with excellent analysis. Keep up the good work 👍
Scary stuff.. and if you were taught (as I was) to keep a hand on the throttle til you're out of the circuit, then you get a pitch up and idle power at the same time.
Great thought process on the possible causes to this unfortunate accident.
I was taught to wiggle back and forth in my seat till the seat mechanism latches on into the grove. I also make my passengers do this and I brief them NOT to grab onto the yoke should the seat roll back on climbout. I do this before every departure. It is worth remembering.
I do too!!!
I would be strange to greet new video notifications from this channel with joy, but your analysis is so informed and thorough that they are always worthwhile. I had *no idea* of the sheer frequency of student panic that CFIs encounter. And every imaginable other possibility is covered here as well. Thank you.
You gave us a good idea. Maybe we can release something with good news. We’ll work on it!
65% of instructors experiencing such student issues surprised me, too.
@@richardmcspadden9189 😉
@@kentd4762 Surprised me too. Clearly they weren't all extreme cases, but some sort of lock up...still. We're going to update our training materials for instructors to make this part of their training in our courses.
I literally feel the same way, it's sad in general, but initially exciting because I love learning from these well done videos and others like them.
Couple other items to consider include CG to far aft (low probability) or trim set full nose up, such as after last landing (also possible, but low probability). However, both could result in a nose pitch up as the pilot flying pulled aft on the yoke for takeoff.
THE best air safety youtube channel in the world. By a LONG way!! Well done and keep up the good work.
He's the Chad of air safety
When I was learning to fly years ago I had received my private pilots license. I needed to continue my training to get my commercial. I took my two-year-old daughter with me in the right seat. She was in a car seat and securely fastened into place. We were doing a landing back at the airport practicing touching goes. As I began to round out pulling back on the yoke she saw the control wheel coming toward her and stuck both of her feet on the control column and shoved forward. I had to aggressively slap her legs off the control yoke to recover the landing. Sometimes something very simple like that can create a disaster.
Use the back seat...
Might’ve been a little hard. I was training in Grumman two seater. I learned I could just slide the seat back 5 inches and she couldn’t reach it. The main point is we sometimes overlook what could be a potential hazards. I raised 4 kids. Sometimes it’s like having multiple individuals on suicide watch trying to keep them out of trouble.
I will be an AOPA member for life because of these videos (and other AOPA benefits).
Thanks for that! GA is strong thanks to our members that help us keep advocating to grow GA, protect it, and keep it safe!
The seat rail situation happened to me once. Immediately upon takeoff and initial climb, my seat suddenly and loudly banged rearward, taking my hand on the yoke with it. I bent over forward and pushed the yoke, but it's one of those 'I could have died' moments. I'll always remember it.
Same, in a 150. My current 150 has the seats pinned in place.
happened to me luckily on takeoff roll and i was able to abort
As a CFI I experienced the seat going back in the 172 during take off and also students freezing up (after stall practice or other airwork) several times. This story gives me shivers and make me realize how small the margins sometimes are. Great analysis en codelances to the family of the flight instructor.
Appreciate the way you approach things with an Open Mind presenting the possibilities... Too many other Channels speculate too early impacting Instructors, Pilots, Owners, Mechanics, Insurance carriers and more... many times wrecking careers! Best to wait for the NTSB Reports, FAA, eye witnesses, videos, Mechanics logs and more. Cannot make a true Assessment until all Evidence is considered! Thanks Again and Appreciate your opinions on many levels! -Rob M.
Thank you! We work hard to do that!
I agree. I am not a pilot/non flyer, but I find these presentations to be a study in careful perspective, respectful behavioural analysis, and technical insight. Very well done.
On the other hand, Dan Gryder has a tendency to leap to premature conclusions. He’s often proven correct eventually, but most of us with much experience can make the same educated guesses-we often will be proven correct eventually as well.
I much prefer the ASI approach. Lay out the facts and possibilities, as well as the lessons to be learned, but leave the conclusions for more thorough investigation by trained and experienced investigators.
I’ve found the NTSB with GA almost always gets it wrong
@@myvizn8387 I have not found that to be the case and I read almost every report that they release. I"ve been amazed at the things they can determine.
Been there, done that. As a CFI having a student demonstrate a stall and stall recovery, he froze and went completely catatonic with the yoke all the way back. Even though we were at a safe altitude to begin with, it got scary enough to where I had to cold cock him in the head with my left elbow to regain control of the Cessna 150 we were flying. That ended this student's short flying career that was full of difficulties from the get-go with the unspoken admonition that he needed to go buy a boat.
It was that bad on a 150? I can't even get them to spin!
An incipient spin was about all I could manage. I gave the guy too much rope to hang himself with and got too close to the ground. It was never going to spin, but I still wouldn't want to smack the desert with this guy being my epitaph!
@@gringoloco8576 Probably wont spin, but it'll definitely steep-spiral.
@@craig7350 Did some 7-8 spins in the 152 last week, how about you?
Not the same scenario. Similar but not.
Aviation reporting is so awful in the media. Anytime you hear a news story about something you are an expert in, they always get the details wrong. It never fails.
Student froze, female CFI lacked the ability to physically overcome this. The end.
Great video. Sad loss of life which may have been avoidable. My son flies for SkyWest. When he instructed he had a student pull all the way back on takeoff, “Like a fighter jet.” Very scary. I heard the 2 students were large. Laypeople when they hear stall, they think engine stall, not loss of wing lift. I am sure they meant stall, not engine stall.
That was my first thought. If the two students were large and you heard that the CFI was a female. If she was small they were most likely far aft cg. Since they both lived, hopefully there will be an update after the NTSB interviews them and reports their findings.
Excellent overview. Professional grade compared to other similar videos. Did not know that info about the 172 bar, but excellent info. So sad and tragic, RIP.
Any update regarding this incident???
During the early stages of my training, my instructor was always very good about "guarding" the controls. He would place his hands near the yoke such that if I made incorrect or excessive control inputs, I would encounter some resistance. If I attempted to push through it, or repeatedly attempted to make the improper control inputs, he would announce: "That's me." and coach me on the correct input (ie: "Keep your nose down.") It allowed me enough slack to safely make mistakes and learn from them while allowing him to maintain positive control over the airplane.
I've always been curious why dedicated trainer aircraft lack a system that would allow an instructor to disconnect a student's yoke from the controls in case of an emergency such as a freeze-up. A thru-pin connected to a pull cable on the instructor's side held in place by copper safety wire (secure but easy to break with sufficient force, similar to an emergency pneumatic gear blow-down system) would do the trick. It would likely require an A&P to reconnect and re-safety it after use. But in the event of a student freeze, it could be a life-saver.
Nice preliminary report. This crash was local to me.
Thanks for the tips I didn't know about regarding how instructors like me can fight back if a student freezes up. I didn't know about the leg trick in the 172, and the "cover the eyeballs" trick seems worth a shot unless the situation occurs so low that there is no time but to throw an elbow at my student.
Yeah close to the ground, you ought to just give em a neck shot.
Whack them in the throat and they'll forget about the yoke. It's drastic, but death is irreversible.
I'll have to look at the control bar (leg trick) the next time I fly. New to me, too.
Pushing on the connecting bar with your leg is a nice trick to know, but I’d say if an instructor really had to use it three times, he could probably have done a more thorough job demonstrating the maneuvers first and making sure the student knows what to expect, so they don’t freeze up so often. I’ve resorted to overpowering the student once or twice, but it always made me think whether I could have done something better instead. It can be very confusing for the student, because he suddenly feels a force opposing him, and he might think it’s an aerodynamic force that needs to be counteracted by applying more pressure, and so the fight between student and instructor begins. A calm but well articulated “I have the flight controls” before you even touch the flight controls probably helps.
My instructor had a new student taking off and the student applied the wrong rudder near rotation. The student froze with his foot on the wrong rudder pedal and he was a big guy. The instructor couldn't overpower him and started yelling. The aircraft was just above the runway lights trying to build speed. The instructor had never had someone overpower him before.
Thanks for this - I was unaware of that bar in the 172, you’ve given me another option I didn’t have before today.
I'm playing out the scenario in my head of a student pilot pulling hard while the CFI is pushing hard on the bar with his foot and what would happen if the student suddenly released his hold.
@@riverraisin1 good question...hopefully in this scenario, that's a problem you have to solve. You'd probably be able to grab the yoke and save the plane. For now, in that moment, you have to handle the nearest alligator to the boat and decrease the pitch attitude or your fate is certain.
If you're not smart enough to just push the yoke forward then it's not likely you're going to be able to achieve getting your foot between the console and control column vertical tube either, especially with the yoke pulled aft. The yoke has a lot more leverage being higher than the pivot point then where your foot could get only a few inches above the pivot point. An elbow to the jaw and pushing with your hand is all you need to do if your life is in danger from a frozen student.
A common reason for witnesses on the ground saying a planes engine stalled PRIOR to the pitch up attitude is distance from the plane. You have to take into account sound travel time, which in a quick situation like that, can cause what appears to be an asynchronous set of events.
Definitely a few possibilities there. Well reported without jumping to conclusions.
Never allow the student who has never flown an aircraft, do the takeoff for his first flight.
Not a problem in thousands of hours of instruction SEL/MEL. A good preflight briefing is in order setting some definite do/don't. Too many times students are not briefed at all;no one gets paid until the Hobbs Meter is ticking 😡. An instructor can get a feel for an individual with just subtle conversation 😁
Years ago I had a seat in a 172 break loose on takeoff roll. It's a real 'what the hell' moment. I got it stopped on the runway but if I'd be airborne it would have been much more serious.
Hope the ease of filming these early accident reports wont dissuade ASI from continued production of their long-form accident videos.
No. Those are more time consuming. We’ll have another of those out in a month or so.
Supposedly the CFI can be heard yelling at the student to let go of the controls.
Richard, thank you, this accident deserves a close look.
Va. Beach, VA.
The flight instructor was Viktoria Theresie Izabelle Ljungman, 23, of Williamsburg, Virginia. RIP Viktoria!
I certainly don't mean to be disrespectful, and I don't know anything about her qualifications. But, as someone who doesn't fly a plane, I would be uncomfortable and hesitant to have a 23-year-old teach me.
IMO, flying a plane is very complicated, and I'd hope they would need to be thinking 5 minutes ahead of their flight, in their mind. I think having a student would be too distracting for someone so young. 🤔
Just my thoughts on instructors in general.
@@danni1993 Many many flight instructors are around 23 years old. It’s not hard to teach a plane this was just unlucky.
@@CocoEspada Agree, her age should not be considered a factor as I flown with a lot of young and experienced flight instructors.
@@danni1993 She was able to earn her Commercial and CFI certificates, which is no mean feat. The fact that she was relatively young is largely irrelevant. The minimum age for getting those certificates is 18 and I wouldn't hesitate to fly with an instructor of that age, even though I would have half a century on that person. What's more important than age is experience, both total and recent.
@@johnopalko5223
Thank you. 🙂
As always ASI puts out very thoughtful analysis. My only comment is about pushing forward on the yoke upon power failure on takeoff. In power off configuration, even with full up trim, a 172 will not stall unless the pilot pulls back on the yoke. My advise has been to let go of the yoke, and fly with just trim in case of an engine failure. It is nearly impossible to stall this way (except accelerated stalls).
I remember starting to taxi after doing the break check and my seat slid all the way back once we started moving. Luckily my instructor took control right away. At least it didn’t happen during takeoff.
Great video, as always, pls keep it up! Greetings from Bangkok, Thailand 🙏
There was a wake turbulence warning by the ATC prior to the takeoff. Also, I have noticed the seat issue on 2013 C172 during a pre-flight where the seat was not locking at first lock position but was locking on the second instead. I snagged the aircraft and cancelled my flight as I previously had a bad experience with the seat of a car which was not properly locked and pushed me forward towards the steering wheel upon braking.
Based on location of crossing runway, flight path of fighters and winds at the time, it's very unlikely wake turbulence from the fighters played any role.
Right before I started flying lessons back in 2000, a student and instructor were killed in a C-172 crash right after takeoff at Saratoga. It was believed to be a seat failure. From that time on my instructor always had us check that the seats were locked.
Whenever the news media says “stall” it always refers to the engine. They have no idea what an aerodynamic stall is but they hear the term and translate it to the engine.
Slide bang! - pitch up - Stall horn - "your controls!" In less than a second and a couple hundred feet above the ground and we're in a departure stall scenario.
Had my seat slide in a 152 for the first time during my private check ride. The examiner didn't know why I was giving her the controls, but she took them anyway and I fixed my seat. I didn't know that had been a known issue. Now imagine if more weight had been in the rear of the cabin...
Cessna 310 charter operation. I was an apprentice mechanic. I informed my lead hand that the seat back supports were cracked. Parts were ordered and the aircraft released. Shortly after, a Federal pilot examiner ended up in the back seat with his feet in the air. That company was eventually shut down for maintenance violations.
Cessna has a seatbelt ratchet locking type device you can install under the seats so they will automatically stop the seat from going back. They were giving those away for free (you have to pay the install) a few years ago, not sure if they still are, but either way, probably worth the cost.
Pretty sure that’s an AD isn’t it?
With respect to the radio communications, when I was learning to fly, my instructor handled all comms until I had my radio license. Even after that, he would work the radio if he wanted me to focus more on flying.
Seat rolling back makes a lot of sense. If the flying pilot have one hand on the yoke and the other hand on the throttle, when the seat roll back the pilot will pull on the yoke to create a fast pitch up and the hand on the throttle will pull it to idle making it sound like an engine failing. During initial climb the gravity vector have a component toward the rear due to the pitch angle. The vibration and the acceleration during the take off run can move object or cause interference with the locking mechanism of the seat. I have read that the student pilot was heavy weight. The pitch up attitude put more force on the seat mechanism to roll back. Could also be wake turbulence. Just before take off, the tower have warned them about it.
I wonder about a poorly trimmed plane along with a possible W&B issue given the third person on board. Hopefully the two survivors will get better and shed some light.
Not on a training discovery flight.
The CFI didn't even "skim" the weight and balance figures?? I doubt that...
@@reubenmorris487 She did she was excellent instructor
the incident is very heart breaking 😢
Every pilot should be taught what would happen if the seat slid back on takeoff. In a Cessna 172, two fingers behind the locking nut, thumb on the carburetor heat. In a Piper, throttle full forward and hand on the throttle control. This goes back to basic flight instruction.
Yeah, wing stall obviously. Trim set improperly, or maybe wake turbulence I would think.
Notice that in the photo the prop blade pointed up is not damaged which seems rather unusual. If the prop was turning at 2000 rpm under full power it should show some significant damage.
I’ve had several issues with those useless Cessna seat rails over the years. I still hold the dash or strap in Cessna’s to this day while climbing out!
Your tape shows PHL tower. Shouldn’t it be PHF tower?
Yes. Sorry about that.
May God comfort the family of the pilot who perished. My condolences.
I think a Charlie bar on the seat rail might prevent this. Part of the before take off checklist would include a system where the seat is secured in a position that is locked into its forward position by a simple bar that won’t let it move back.
The video the news posted shows a classic departure stall, easy 20 degree plus nose up attitude right off the bat. The CFI fought it all the way in trying to lower the nose and you can see the right rudder input to counter the left wing drop oh so common in a high-wing uncoordinated stall. Another 100' of altitude I think the CFI pulls off the save. Don't know about the seat rail issue, the AD over the years has really done it's job there. Sad situation, I know CFI's want to give students the feeling but really critical phases of flight should be off limits till at least you've seen a student react to stalls...
You missed the biggest clue. "Caution, wake turbulence"
@@georgekappland2935 Respectfully I disagree, the accident occurred roughly mid-field of the departing runway. The fighter (F-16 Viper I believe) departed the intersecting runway. No way the fighter departed prior to the last third of the crossing runway and the 172 never made it far enough down the runway for wake turbulence to be an issue. Wake is a serious issue I had a controller give me the option a beam the numbers with a departing A320 on the same runway one day. I passed.
My seat let go on climb out a few weeks ago flying a PA38 Tomahawk with my CFI. Luckily I knew what to do…pushed column forward and let go calling for the CFI to take over whilst I re engaged the seat.
Was the aircraft properly trimmed for TO?
great video!!
Thanks!
You didn’t mention wake turbulence of departing fighter aircraft.
How the engine of a C172 stalls?
I flew 883 a few times. Sad and shocking to hear about the crash.
What a fair minded response. Not clear on whether the three responses for FIs when students freeze are widely known, or if it’s a SAFE initiative. Seems valuable info for all FIs though. Expect the students will shed some light on this whole sorry situation when they’re able.
Great videos in this channel ! 😁😀👍 Thanks !
This was a first flight or demo flight. The student was flying his computer game..... This young instructor should never have had the student "follow through on the controls"....
check the dteails.. it was a student freez up and petite instructor was unable to override,,, tragic
Curious; How / why do you think the NTSB can determine who was flying at the time of pitch up?
Interviews with survivors. Discussion with flight school on typical conduct of this type of flight.
This is the second time that I've heard of covering their eyes. Great idea, and I like it better than my original backup plan of a knuckle sandwich.
What about wake turbulence that was advised and read back?
The fighter took off from the intersecting runway; wake turbulence likely no factor as they crashed way before the intersection. Just an opinion, of course.
Tower cautioned them about wake turbulence so I also wonder if they took the appropriate steps to avoid it
Good info. I don't fly anymore but like to stay informed.
This should be fairly easy to figure out once the NTSB has finished interviewing the two students who survived. Sounds like a power-on stall with no altitude for recovery.
How about the bad luck of hitting that embankment? Had it been flat terrain it would have been survivable.
Also the student may have pulled the throttle back when the seat went back.
Good observation, the student may have closed the throttle by holding onto it, not by pushing it with his fingers. This would concur with witnesses saying the engine had stalled. It would be interesting to see the position of the throttle lever.
Or to add to probable cause: Not verifying trim position on take-off inducing an elevator trim stall.
Are you the one who interviewed those bush pilots that were going deep into mountain terrain in Carbon Cubs , perhaps they were turnip field hunting or something like that? One pilot crashed on a no-go around landing strip I think and got hurt pretty bad but his buddies save him. Anyway, you look like the same guy who interviewed and if so, can you remind me what key words to search to find that video? You do a great job by the way, bravo.
Indeed. Here is the video you are looking for ruclips.net/video/NGt6TmkYdUw/видео.html
How would they determine who was at the controls based on a radio call? 🤔
You can't. It's entirely possible the instructor was talking and student flying. NTSB will talk to survivors and likely figure that out.
Love the Fly Oz sticker!
In the video you see it pulled back & stays pulled back until stall took over
I think they can determine who was flying by their injuries
And perhaps discussions with survivors.
Could be omission to remove the external control lock on the empennage.
Love how the media just says whatever and then the general public is like ok but all the aviation professionals are cringing
With two supposed "Student Pilots" on board I feel like this may have been some sort of discovery flight or perhaps a Photo type flight like a local school offers. In either case the "students" likely have never been in a aircraft before and pulled back hard and the CFI was not able to regain control soon enough. It's sad to see another life lost and hopefully we get more answers soon.
If the student is strong enough or locks up, it can be very difficult to overpower them and I'm not a small guy.
oh I like this bar technique! never knew that.
@@gringoloco8576 I was thinking the same thing and looking around this young CFI was a petite person
Using foot/leg on the bar to overcome someone pulling back, and whacking them in the face to get the student to let go are some great ideas.
100’ off the ground. Stall and you crash.
The idea you have the time and idea to whack someone in that situation is unpractical at best.
Just how would anyone have the time or room to pull your legs up to push on the control?
“The engine stalled”? Or the plane stalled? 🤔
Show us a map of ... the plane takeoff point, crash point, and wake turbulence influence.
Aggressive forward trim will make it more difficult for student to pull up and easier to push forward.
Very sad. I have to wonder if that was the Nigerian student's first flight in a small plane.
Is that your not so subtle way of injecting the student's race into the discussion? Tell me what does the word "Nigerian" add to the discussion. It's like saying the white CFI blah blah. These are three human beings.. One working in progressing her career and the other two starting out and there's an accident.
You injected the pilot's sex into the discussion by using "her".
What about any info on the Josh Neuman crash?
I would not ignore the warning for wake turbulence from the "fighters" (Navy?) at the intersecting runway...the intersection being close to the departure end of the take-off runway. You have to wonder if the aircraft encountered the wake turbulence either at, or just after, taking off and if that caused any disruption in the pitch of the 172.
Agree - wake turbulence could have been a factor - I'm sure that the NTSB will look there.
Crossing runway where fighters departed is way down at end of runway. I don’t think they got far enough for that to be a factor.
There was also mention of caution for wake turbulence associated with fighter jets. Could that have been a cause for upset on take-off?
Not in this accident. The fighters departed the crossing runway, down at the far end. The Cessna crashed well before they would have reached any wake turbulence.
Didn’t the controller warn about WAKE TURBULENCE? This may cause abrupt pitch up.
What about some sort of distraction in the cockpit? Student pulls up hard and CFI is looking at Ipad or something outside?
I have taken off with a lot of nose up trim and it was eye opening. I was alone and light though.
Where's your review of the mig23 mishap?
As a CFI, I can attest to the importance of being able to over power a student when they pitch for the moon and freeze up.
How can I keep following the final verdict from NTSB? I like the early assessments but would like to conclude with NTSB findings
They sometimes take up to two years. Follow Air Safety Institute or go on NTSB website periodically.
A voice from the grave!
Why is the audio saying KPHL?
Our mistake. Sorry!
How heavy was the student at the controls ?
One time in a 152 a student didn’t lock the seat and on initial climb out the seat went fully aft and he grabbed the controls by reflex. Might be « a » reason !
Wake turbulence?