An excellent look around the shaper, thank you. It looks to be in really superb condition! That's what happens when a machine is looked after by someone who appreciates their tools properly. Thank you, sir!
Dear Michelle, The shaper is an awesome machine simplicity at its best I believe. I so appreciate you sharing your time with us. Love and peace may you have an abundance of each. Kimber
Hello Michel. I am destined never to own a powered shaper, yet I enjoy you showing the depths of your shaper and appreciate you explaining how it functions. One day I hope we see you make and fit that new block made of bronze. 👏👏👍😀
What a lovely machine, Michel. The oiling system is particularly nice. The lack of side access is a bit of a pain in the hole, though. For the fix, given you have no appreciable play in the middle of the stroke, I'd be more suspicious of an ovalisation of the hole in the siding block rather than wear on its sides, which would show up more in the middle of the stroke than at the ends. That's my feel, anyway. If that's the case, it might be fixable by reboring and sleeving the hole rather than making a whole new block.
Very interesting. Always like to see how things work and how you make your parts to keep everything working. Need something make it. Looking forward to the block making video.
Thanks for sharing the inner workings of the shaper. Hope you are able to fix it soon Michel. I guess it’s down to the scrap yard in search of some bronze. Cheers Nobby
The love you have for your shaper comes shining through. You guys have spent a lot of hours together 😁 Sometimes "a bit of a noise" is just fine, I own an old Harley, so... That's a wonderful video thanks for sharing. 👍
Hi Michel, well done to the other 81 people for asking you to do this video!! Thanks for the blackboard explanations👌👌 Always interesting to see the shaper and have the opportunity to see inside too. Like others it sounded quieter after being put back together to me, but you will know better. I look forward to you having a chance meeting with a suitably sized block of bronze. Have a great weekend!!
Thanks for showing us the insides of your shaper. On my Elliot 10M I had to make a new cast iron sliding block and restore the slot in the arm to being parallel. But that requires disassembly!
Some years ago I bought an Alba 2B shaper. It had a knocking noise and discovered it was the rocker arm bottom pivot which was worn out. The shaft was approx 50mm in diameter and was really worn. I couldn’t do much about the huge bronze bush so I just replaced the shaft which was a big improvement. It obviously had not been lubricated as the oil pipe was blocked. I expect you have checked your bottom pivot.. Love your videos and you are at the top of my watching list ! Best wishes from uk.
Rusti, as you have said because the block is at the highest part of the mechanism its not easy to lubricate, the reason it was originally fitted with a nylon piece was most likely because the manufacturer fitted it with nylon impregnated with lubricant during its manufacture. It is standard practice in the injection moulding business to drop new mouldings into water immediately after it has been made to drop into water so that the material can absorb it to bulk it out whilst cooling, there is no reason why they shouldn't do this with oil. If you do a search of self lubricating nylon, it will explain the various plastics that can do this.
Michel, Topper Machine has a video where he uses a composite called Nylatron, available at the Jungle store. He uses it to replace bronze bushings on a crane. Check it out. It is the video when he welds the cracks in the spokes .
you have to fix the shaper it was the first machine I used after coming out of the training centre. It was a butler 10" stroke made in the next town of Halifax england
You can make that top slide/ pivot block oil able by drilling down through the part such that you can remove the ram clamp handle and block to access the oil hole for oiling, as long as the hole drips oil on the top of the nylon slide block it will spread around that slide effectively. Its how it works on my Elliot 18m, except I don't have to remove the clamp to access it. Its nice that such a small shaper has inbuilt oil system, my 18m does not and entirely relies on total loss oiling through the many different oil ports and cups, then it all drains out the bottom onto the floor (its British so thats to be expected) but it does mean excessive wear can happen if a few get missed or get blocked. I don't think the clunk noise on yours is indicative of a major problem, because the mechanism changes direction in operation any slack in component fit will lead to a clunk, shapers basically have to be perfect to not make clunk noises, as long as nothing is excessively slack or worn it will be fine and run just fine for many years.
Mine has a knock also. It does have a side opening, so far as I've been able to view with things in motion, it looks like an issue with the pin that goes through the slide block. It's either loosened up where it connects to the bull gear, or there is enough wear between the slide bock and the pin journal to cause it to bang around with violence under the right conditions ... similar to an engine with a loose connecting rod. You know the pin and block are going to wear more where the load is higher, I expect to find an egg shaped pin or block (or both) when I look further. Edit: The knock was occurring with the pin going through the 2:00 position of the cycle. Don't know if that gives a clue or not.
Thanks for the video. I am surprised that there is nylon in the machine ( if it's original) because nylon was invented in 1935 and shapers were not built anymore not too long after that. I served my apprenticeship on a shaper so spent weeks operating one with about 15 or 20 around me also being operated. The clonk to my ears is part of the sound of a shaper rather than not and I don't believe it would affect it at all. You need no play in the ram and table and a smooth operation of the handle that changes the height of the clapper box because you have to feed downward accurately by hand on each backstroke when making a vertical cut.
hey michel too bad you couldn't fix it. but now you know where the real problem is. You should be able to get that piece of bronze at your local machine shop. I have the feeling that the block itself is still reasonable, but the hole in it has been blown out
If you used a shim, couldn’t you bend the shim over the bottom and top of the block? That would hold it in place. I do that with shims. But you’re right about the difficulty of disassembling the machine. If you have to go through that, you might as well make a new part.
Rustinox, have you got some video showing clapper auto lifting mechanism? Mine Klopp 300 shaper is missing this feature and it's not so good when your cutting tool hitting the workpiece is the thing that lifts the clapper:/ Thank you for your videos!😊
The problem with the shaper is worse than you think. Look at the model you showed in the beginning of this video. What happens when the slot is not parallel? It is always in use in the middle ( short stroke) and less in the top and bottom (long stroke). There is the most were (slijtage). A bigger block will lock up the machine as the block cannot slide to the top or bottom of the slot. So big challenge or problem. Keep up the good work and make nice videos with sometimes an explanation, and sometimes something to think about like the video on the beach.
SHOUT OUT ! Come on guys . Who has a nice lump of bronze just sitting there in the workshop? I've had a look in my little stash and come up short , someone must have a wee bit.
If there is no play in the middle of the stroke, doesn't that mean that the play is due to wear at both ends of the slot and not in the brass block? If it was the brass block you would see the play in the middle as well, no?
Good afternoon, hopefully the first of many comments saying thanks for filming, from a fellow shaper addict 🙂
Thanks.
An excellent look around the shaper, thank you. It looks to be in really superb condition! That's what happens when a machine is looked after by someone who appreciates their tools properly. Thank you, sir!
Thanks.
Dear Michelle,
The shaper is an awesome machine simplicity at its best I believe. I so appreciate you sharing your time with us. Love and peace may you have an abundance of each.
Kimber
Thanks Kimber.
Hello Michel. I am destined never to own a powered shaper, yet I enjoy you showing the depths of your shaper and appreciate you explaining how it functions. One day I hope we see you make and fit that new block made of bronze. 👏👏👍😀
One day maybe. We'll see.
Excellent video, you are very good at explaining exactly what you are doing, and the reason why.
That shaper is in a very safe pair of hands.
Thanks.
What a lovely machine, Michel. The oiling system is particularly nice. The lack of side access is a bit of a pain in the hole, though. For the fix, given you have no appreciable play in the middle of the stroke, I'd be more suspicious of an ovalisation of the hole in the siding block rather than wear on its sides, which would show up more in the middle of the stroke than at the ends. That's my feel, anyway. If that's the case, it might be fixable by reboring and sleeving the hole rather than making a whole new block.
I suppose ther is a bit of wear in all the moving parts.
Hi Michel, shaper enthusiasts are looking forward to seeing the repair work when you get the bronze.
Take care and good health my friend.
MWM
One day maybe. We'll see.
Very interesting. Always like to see how things work and how you make your parts to keep everything working.
Need something make it.
Looking forward to the block making video.
Thanks.
Hppy days Michel 🎉 love a good bit of shaper action, nicely done my friend
Thanks Ralfy.
Thanks Michel, enjoyed that 👍
Thanks.
My shaper makes a similar noise. However mine is super thick cast Iron, and i calculate 150 years from now it will need work. Great job!
150? You're safe :)
The never ending saga of machine ownership ! My one made a similar noise & that block was too tight . Cheers 👍
If it ends, I have to find another hobby :)
Thanks for sharing the inner workings of the shaper. Hope you are able to fix it soon Michel. I guess it’s down to the scrap yard in search of some bronze. Cheers Nobby
We'll see. It's not urgent.
Very nice work mister. It’s a peace of mind if you know your machine is still good after hearing bad noises.
It sure is.
The love you have for your shaper comes shining through. You guys have spent a lot of hours together 😁
Sometimes "a bit of a noise" is just fine, I own an old Harley, so...
That's a wonderful video thanks for sharing. 👍
Indeed, I like the shaper very much.
It's a beautiful little shaper Michel
I think so too.
Hi Michel, well done to the other 81 people for asking you to do this video!! Thanks for the blackboard explanations👌👌
Always interesting to see the shaper and have the opportunity to see inside too. Like others it sounded quieter after being put back together to me, but you will know better.
I look forward to you having a chance meeting with a suitably sized block of bronze.
Have a great weekend!!
Thanks David.
Silent majority here, we wanted to see you fix the shaper.
One day maybe...
Michel, the inner parts of the shaper are very well lubricated, nice to see that!
Indeed.
Thanks for showing us the insides of your shaper. On my Elliot 10M I had to make a new cast iron sliding block and restore the slot in the arm to being parallel. But that requires disassembly!
And it's a lot of work.
Such a beautifully engineered machine.
Simple and effective.
Some years ago I bought an Alba 2B shaper. It had a knocking noise and discovered it was the rocker arm bottom pivot which was worn out. The shaft was approx 50mm in diameter and was really worn. I couldn’t do much about the huge bronze bush so I just replaced the shaft which was a big improvement.
It obviously had not been lubricated as the oil pipe was blocked. I expect you have checked your bottom pivot..
Love your videos and you are at the top of my watching list !
Best wishes from uk.
The bottom pivot in in the oil bath, so lubrication is certain.
That’s good. 👍
I don’t own a shaper, never even operated one let alone seen one in person. But I still find them fascinating.
I’m the same
Well, they are facinating.
Ha! Such a funny man. Love it.
Screwdriver handle would work better in green though.
I will try one day :)
I was watching another RUclipsr the other day and he has a hand powered shaper great video content as usual
Thanks.
Very nice machine Rustinox, Just picked up a Sanford surface grinder, and I am doing a restoration on it. A small shaper is on my bucket list.
Nice. Have fun with it.
Beautiful machine
Indeed, it is.
Shaper! 👍 Makes me happy. Thanks Rusti
Me too.
Nice chat, very informative Rusti. 👍
Thanks.
@@Rustinox You're welcome
Sehr gut und sehr sympathisch.
Thanks.
Enjoyed…great discussion
Thanks Chuck.
I always like watching Shaper content, thanks for posting
My pleasure.
Your shaper runs nice Rustinox, especially with it being bolted down to the floor. Cheers Tony
Indeed, it does.
Rusti, as you have said because the block is at the highest part of the mechanism its not easy to lubricate, the reason it was originally fitted with a nylon piece was most likely because the manufacturer fitted it with nylon impregnated with lubricant during its manufacture. It is standard practice in the injection moulding business to drop new mouldings into water immediately after it has been made to drop into water so that the material can absorb it to bulk it out whilst cooling, there is no reason why they shouldn't do this with oil. If you do a search of self lubricating nylon, it will explain the various plastics that can do this.
Like pre-oiled nylon. Interesting.
Happy you know what is not broken or loose in your machine. Thanks for sharing.
You're right.
Michel, after you reinstalled it back together and ran it I couldn’t hear the knocking noise anymore. 👍🏴
But it's still there.
Thank you so much for letting us peer into your wide-open shaper! Is it my imagination, or is the knocking sound much quieter now?
I thought it sounded quieter
Well, it's still there.
Excellent video,Michel.Thank you.
Thanks.
Just finished a major repair on my 18" Hollingworth shaper. Great video, thank you for posting.
18, That's a big one.
A very nice machine Michel.
Thanks. I think so too.
Good overview of the shaper Michel. As least you know what needs to be done now.
Indeed. Thanks.
Hi I really like your channel the content is varied and interesting keep filming I would miss it if you stopped.
Country wales uk.
Thanks.
Very good video, and explanation of operation.
Thanks.
Great machine , in dutch it is a strong arm shaper. the workstroke is slower than the backstroke, and it is faster than a mill of that size
Indeed.
Hi mate in Australia we call the floor the bottom shelf 😂
Lol.
Slop at the reversing points suggests wear in the arm slot.
I suppose it's a bit everywhere.
Michel, Topper Machine has a video where he uses a composite called Nylatron, available at the Jungle store. He uses it to replace bronze bushings on a crane. Check it out. It is the video when he welds the cracks in the spokes .
Thanks. I watched that video.
@@Rustinox Do you think it might fit your application?
Good work Rusty!
Well, I didn't fix anything :)
@@Rustinox but that noise does not exist anymore, for me this is a fix.
We all limp a little bit getting older but still not useless....!
Let's hope so :)
you have to fix the shaper it was the first machine I used after coming out of the training centre. It was a butler 10" stroke made in the next town of Halifax england
I will fix it... one day... maybe.
Nothing to add just a comment for algorithm engagement. 👍👍
Thanks.
You can make that top slide/ pivot block oil able by drilling down through the part such that you can remove the ram clamp handle and block to access the oil hole for oiling, as long as the hole drips oil on the top of the nylon slide block it will spread around that slide effectively.
Its how it works on my Elliot 18m, except I don't have to remove the clamp to access it.
Its nice that such a small shaper has inbuilt oil system, my 18m does not and entirely relies on total loss oiling through the many different oil ports and cups, then it all drains out the bottom onto the floor (its British so thats to be expected) but it does mean excessive wear can happen if a few get missed or get blocked.
I don't think the clunk noise on yours is indicative of a major problem, because the mechanism changes direction in operation any slack in component fit will lead to a clunk, shapers basically have to be perfect to not make clunk noises, as long as nothing is excessively slack or worn it will be fine and run just fine for many years.
This nylon block is an original part, so I suppose it's fine as is.
Mine has a knock also. It does have a side opening, so far as I've been able to view with things in motion, it looks like an issue with the pin that goes through the slide block. It's either loosened up where it connects to the bull gear, or there is enough wear between the slide bock and the pin journal to cause it to bang around with violence under the right conditions ... similar to an engine with a loose connecting rod. You know the pin and block are going to wear more where the load is higher, I expect to find an egg shaped pin or block (or both) when I look further.
Edit: The knock was occurring with the pin going through the 2:00 position of the cycle. Don't know if that gives a clue or not.
I suppose there is a bit of wear in all the moving parts.
Good explanation of the parts and oiling. I wonder if a food grade silicone grease would not affect the nylon.
The part is nylon because it doesn't need lubrication at all.
Thanks for the video. I am surprised that there is nylon in the machine ( if it's original) because nylon was invented in 1935 and shapers were not built anymore not too long after that. I served my apprenticeship on a shaper so spent weeks operating one with about 15 or 20 around me also being operated. The clonk to my ears is part of the sound of a shaper rather than not and I don't believe it would affect it at all. You need no play in the ram and table and a smooth operation of the handle that changes the height of the clapper box because you have to feed downward accurately by hand on each backstroke when making a vertical cut.
This is a quite recent shaper and the nylon block is an original part.
Shaper lover here having withdrawals due to not having a shaper for a couple of years now. Kinda hard to find up here in Alaska 😢
One day you'll find one. I'm sure.
hey michel too bad you couldn't fix it. but now you know where the real problem is.
You should be able to get that piece of bronze at your local machine shop.
I have the feeling that the block itself is still reasonable, but the hole in it has been blown out
I suppose there is a bit of wear in all the moving parts.
If you used a shim, couldn’t you bend the shim over the bottom and top of the block? That would hold it in place. I do that with shims. But you’re right about the difficulty of disassembling the machine. If you have to go through that, you might as well make a new part.
I think so too.
Rustinox, have you got some video showing clapper auto lifting mechanism? Mine Klopp 300 shaper is missing this feature and it's not so good when your cutting tool hitting the workpiece is the thing that lifts the clapper:/ Thank you for your videos!😊
I just reacted on your other comment. Hope you'll find it.
The problem with the shaper is worse than you think. Look at the model you showed in the beginning of this video. What happens when the slot is not parallel? It is always in use in the middle ( short stroke) and less in the top and bottom (long stroke). There is the most were (slijtage). A bigger block will lock up the machine as the block cannot slide to the top or bottom of the slot.
So big challenge or problem. Keep up the good work and make nice videos with sometimes an explanation, and sometimes something to think about like the video on the beach.
Thanks. Will do.
SHOUT OUT ! Come on guys . Who has a nice lump of bronze just sitting there in the workshop?
I've had a look in my little stash and come up short , someone must have a wee bit.
If I had one I’d send it
Lol, thanks.
It’s a nice shaper even without an access panel on the port side . I’d send you a piece of bronze if I had one sorry Rusty
Thanks.
It sounds fine to me, but then again, I DON'T OWN A SHAPER. So what would I know 😢
Errata; Don't have a shaper "YET".
how big of a block of bronze do you need? Where do you live?
At least 30 x 40 x 50mm.
And I live in Belgium.
@@Rustinox i know you live in Belgium. Me too ;-) I was wondering how far from me. I live near Aalst
@@pieterbaten1566 Hotton.
@@Rustinox i will fix you a piece of bronze. We will see how to get it to you...
I got you a piece of bronze. How can we communicate without RUclips? Do you have fb or instagram?
In the last part I could not hear the tap any more. ????
Steve.
But it's still there.
If the stroke gets tight in the middle , but loose at the end’s, doesn’t that prove the slot is worn out and not the block?
Or both.
😂😂😂😂
👍😎
Thanks.
What would you say the max price for a deckel pf1 in the same condition as yours but without any accserories should cost?
Somewhere between 2500 and 3500.
It is unfortunate that the shaper doesn't have an access door. As long as it works it's all good!
Indeed. It would make things easier.
How big do you need the block of bronze?
At least 30x40x50xmm.
Thanks for sharing, I can fully understand why you didn’t want to tear it down for a minor niggle. ATB Mark
One day maybe, but it's not urgent.
@@Rustinox I do like your laid back approach 👍
Turn the Radio up!!
To listen to commercials?
@@Rustinox or not hear the noise
so your running a knocking shop?
Lol.
Video interrupted by ads. Unforgivable.
You're right. It's a real pain.
If there is no play in the middle of the stroke, doesn't that mean that the play is due to wear at both ends of the slot and not in the brass block? If it was the brass block you would see the play in the middle as well, no?
I suppose ther is a bit of wear in all the moving parts.