I play everything at 150% scale DSR (3k downsample) and it looks amazing to me. On my 1080p screens going to 4k DSR from 3k only seems just slightly better at a noticeably larger performance hit. This is on a Titan X btw.
It may be worth mentioning that you can use anti-aliasing(& any other features, all of which will presumably be done at the higher resolution before it's scaled down) in combination with DSR. Of course that will reduce the performance even more, but it can be good for older games.
Hey kliks, just a heads-up, you can force Supersampling only for transparent textures and keep using regular MSAA if you're looking for a balanced framerate, sharp image and avoiding lots of flickering foliage and such. I usually use that tecnhique or just 8xSQ over the whole scene. Full-scene Supersampling tends to soften the image a bit when its used, but at least it softens the Supersampled image properly as opposed to lazy ass "optimized" FXAA just blurring all the flickering edges and making them even more noticable. Screw FXAA.
Oh, in case you were wondering why SS and DSR look different: It is due to HDR. If you downscale before mapping HDR -> LDR, you'll get jaggies in areas of high contrast. If you map to HDR -> LDR and THEN downscale, you'll get smoother results. The reason is this. Imagine 4 pixels, one is very dark, the other are extremely bright, like 10x brighter than your monitor can display. The if you downscale BEFORE, the average color will be (10 + 10 + 10 + 0) / 4 which is 7.5, but then is clamped to 1. If you downscale AFTER, the average color is (10 gets clamped to 1 here) (1 + 1 + 1 + 0) / 4 which is 0.75, which is is less than 1 and doesn't get clamped.
Remember to turn on gfx card resolution scaling vs monitor scaling in the system driver. I've found a sweet spot using DSR on may 1080p display. With my GTX1080 I usually choose ~1500px vertical with 4xMSAA, turn DSR smoothing to 100% and then use my BENQ monitor to apply hardware "superresolution" sharpening which is a type of unsharp mask filter. I turned up the refresh freq. from 60 to 75 Hz in the drivers (forced custom res. with DSR off) as well and can run DSR@75fps now. The resulting image is remarkably smooth with no staircasing effects. I'll take that quality any day vs noAA/fxAA 4K. It look like a movie!
man i wish you'd do updated version of this video including amd's vsr, generally i think a lot of what is mentioned in this video is true, but with games that utilize TAA such as RDR 2 with is blurry mess i find dsr being a god saver, even 2x or 2.35x is making the game look bearable, only problem is finding good smoothing for those leess than 4x resolutions, not sure how it works on amd though
The question I have is, how do you increase the internal resolution (like emulators do) without affecting things like the interface (GUI is too small at 4K in some games)...
especially in total war the small font becomes a nightmare. but this is also for monitors with resolutions higher than 1080p and not just dsr on a 1080p monitor. There is an ingame UI scaling but I feel like it just makes the text blurrier as it increases in size. The only real alternative is to download a larger font mod. but then some buttons will have text that spills over the edge of the button
it is normal, because next gen consoles uses 1080p, same as desctop PC, so performance on PC games are not lower than console. so no additional performance cost = you can use 4k or ultra AA.
Kalmer yes xddd that will be so useful... you can not notice a pixel at 4K, the market will make you buy a 8K monitor, but is not necessary, i will buy a 4K TV because HDR technology is only on 4K displays, but i don't care the 4K, 1080P DSR or AA options are amazing
You can see the difference between 4k and none 4k image on 720p monitor. 4k monitors doesn't have smaller pixels, what it have is more pixels. That's why 4k monitors are only available in larger screen sizes because of the additional pixels. So as long as you have a appropriate sized monitor for your pixel count, you actually effectively have a smaller part of a 4k monitor.
yeah, unless you're playing an old game that is locked at 60fps and that doesn't support ssa (witch barely any games do) in that case it is ABOLUTELY worth it in every way ofourse. and what is the difference between 304 fps and 101 anyway? you barely even notice it
Omg saw you in that 1v1 csgo game mode! At first I thought were fake because you always were saying the same thing but then I checked your steam profile and you were real =) but we need a rematch on there because our 1v1 with knifes was cut short =')
Theres a Chrome extension called " h264ify " , it lets You do that. As well as other things, like forcing YT to feed video in the h264 codec instead of their proprietary "vp9" , which can help playback performance on some older machines. Don't know about the other browsers tho. And yeah I know, Im like 3 years late... but Im hoping that someone, somewhere, will find this usefull one day :)
What's so special about DSR? I used to downsample higher resolutions to my native one back all the time in the CRT days and I could do it right from the Nvidia driver settings. It was just the best method back then, but other AA methods are just more efficient with modern graphics cards or at least that's how I understood it.
Today I was flying around Nuke spectating a friends game when I noticed something peculiar in the ramp room, If I flew above the railing that is near the ceiling I can see white bleeding like when you look at an actual leak. Is this just me or did Valve screw up? Philip, you're a mapping nerd can you investigate it?
Could this really be called a new technology? Downscaling has been around for a very long time. Unless it is processing the image in a strange way in the background, which is possible.
So DSR 2x native with 33% smoothness is like 2xSuperSampling AA? I know about the tiny HUD, and such, and it is very annoying, not sure why nvidia has not posted anything on that subject,frankly its nice to see someone with the same issue haha, i am not alone. Not gunna lie, so far with AC4 i like dsr2x. Now also, thank you for the info about how the HD is not as good as 4k regarding pixels, something i will consider when upgrading my monitor, however gaming at 4k is still a expensive gpu cost. I have read that 17% smoothness is a nice setting for sharpness vs some blur, but if i bring it down to 0, then what? Will i have jaggz again? Currently i turned on smaa ontop of the 2x dsr. Seems very fluid and nice in ac4. Some games however i agree doesnt seem to be the best option especially if you have to read and write alot on the hud. Fortunately i do not in AC4. What was that you mentioned about the math?
I wonder how AA could affect player visibility. Would it help by making the cover pixels be less obstructive or would it smooth the player pixels down so they blend with the background?
Both. These are the tradeoffs you make. I run no anti-aliasing so things "pop" off of the background more because they have sharp aliased edges, but at the same time running especially dsr would give you an image with more correct information and detail, with the downside of blurring. The only real solution is to get a higher res monitor.
***** Yet alot of pro's use a lower resulution than thier monitor supports... n0thing reasoned that his 1280 x 720 resolution runned more consistent across all PC's but if you have the option to use 1080p at a good framerate you should defenetly use that.
Wish DSR had more filtering options. Only 4x DSR with 0% smoothness looks sharpest while having minimal aliasing and less artifacts. Anything else 0% looks ugly due to obvious reasons [Not being an integer multiple of native resolution]. I have to set at least 22~33% get rid of artifacts on non 4x DSR resolutions. But those look blurrier than VSR, and Nvidia's own custom resolution downsampling method.
i have an problem.. ive played years with anti aliasing on in csgo, 4x and now it dosent work.. even if i change the settings in the nvidia control panel.. what should i do?
VSR (no DSR for me) is pretty useful for certain games (*cough* The Crew *cough*) which only have good-looking-and-not-generating-a-black-hole-in-the-gpu for nVidia. I play with more fps with 1440p on a 1080p screen and FXAA than 4XMSAA, and it still looks better.
Is there any point in using DSR and AA effects at the same time? I mean, it sounds like it does, but I would like a comparison between DSR + AA and DSR
for some reason i dont get that frame drop , on 4xDSR GTX950 , rolling like a boss . i can see its working , 150FPS in CSGO , should be 60fps on 4k but i dont know , its not
I've used super sampling for playing Dark Souls 2 and honestly it feels really awkward for me. I use a 720p monitor (I haven't had a need to upgrade yet) and render the graphics at 1933x1086. It feels really awkward and quite blury (Not to mention my framerate takes a hit not that it matters in a game that has it's FPS limited to 60). I still stick to native resolutions and use anti-aliasing because I feel like it works far better.
Dennis Duda I'm not sure if it's because my native resolution is at 1366x768 but the only other option I'm getting from Experience is 2732x1536. I'll give that a shot and see how it looks. I'll try GeDoSaTo and tinker with that. I'm still probably not going to use it in newer games because of performance hits but it's still fun to see what it looks like. 3kliksphilip Did they enable support for the 600 series yet? I'm pretty sure they did but I still can't find an option for DSR (Other than a few settings to setup DSR in the control panel) to enable it. It's not even in the program settings in the control panel. I'll have to look into it a bit further.
I'm still not going to bother with antialiasing until I've got a really really good computer after I graduate from university. At the moment, I would rather beef up other graphic options or just keep it low in general for extremely high fps.
So which is better, 4K DSR or actual native 4K screen, i want to know if there are jaggies on native 4k screen monitors if you dont anable Anti-Aliasing
howdo u turn aff of this down i have a gtx 770 and an i7 3770 3.6ghz and i get 120 fps evrything on low -_- no my fps is not locked my console fps command is fps_max 0
If you turn on Multicore rendering. It will enable all the cores in your CPU to work. I just changed it and it made my FPS a lot better. You may need to turn on raw imput to get rid of mouse lag with it.
DSR seems to me to be such a small difference that it wont be noticeable while playing in full speed. Especially not in CS Go as it's not the most PC intensive game. Maybe in a bigger scale game the difference might be much better. But sacking about 100 fps for that small change is a big no for me.
Instead of "1/4 the frame rate" it is more fair to think of it in terms of milliseconds. Let's say a shading process took 10ms, which is fairly hefty. If you were getting 2.5ms/frame (400fps) before, it will drop to 12.5ms/frame which is 80fps, or 1/5 the frame rate. Sounds pretty shocking. However, if you were getting 25ms per frame (40fps) before, it will drop to 35ms/frame, which is about 28fps or a 29% hit, compared to 1/5. You were getting an outrageous frame rate before, so of course introducing antialiasing methods would be a disproportionately large hit.
i experience framrate drops in csgo, so i keep my settings down so when it drops it drops to 60 instead of 30-40fps. my pc isnt slow more graphically intensive games dont do that nearly as much
Hi! Somehow after this new 60fps update. I can't play 1080p60 videos. The video loads, but it stutters like a maniac. I can watch 1080p with 30 fps without problems, however. Does anyone know a fix to this?
Robbie E If you use CRU you can get your monitor to think it's a 4K monitor. When you play games like that it will be the same as if you were using DSR. There are two caveats though, your monitor can't be locked i.e., not able to accept native signals, and you need to have the bandwidth to do 4K at a decent refresh rate.
Since i have a crappy 1366x768 screen im using VSR (the same as DSR, just for AMD) to put my Res on 1080p and im also using Super Sampling. Gives a nice effect. But not too noticable to be honest
I'm using a Samsung U28D590D which i payed £359 and bought a £12 DP to mini-DP and now am playing CS:GO in 4k@60hz at 90 fps on my xfx 7870 so saying the cheap 4k screens only support 30hz is just not true.
And it's been getting cheaper. I think a lot of people are hesitant about buying it because it's a TN panel. But man... I saw it in a local shop next to a bunch of IPS panels didn't stand out to me at first, I thought it was also IPS, then I saw the model number... It's probably one of the nicest TN panels I've seen, and the response time on it is really nice, would be great for gaming. If anyone reads this and wants to buy it keep in mind: it has a pretty bad stand and it *is not* VESA mount compatible.
Erik4boss Yeah. I had looked at reviews on the Asus' version, and a lot of people were complaining of popping noises on the Asus model, and some peoples monitors failing after that. I don't really want to get into the details of why it's doing that; but it seemed like it's because the monitor is trying to use the built-in speakers, even when there is no audio signal. If I wanted a reasonably priced 4K60Hz monitor with a good stand and also VESA mount compatible, I would probably go with the AOC 28in 4K monitor; although that one is allegedly has about 50ms of input lag.
no aa is not good its too jaggy. between 2aa and super sampling it literally makes some thin lines disappear only 4xdsr can reduce those jaggies without destroying thin lines but not worth the lost fps. go buy a 4k monitor if u dont want jaggies ;)
+The Blitz A 4K display would actually display those jagged lines more prominently if not running in 4K mode. For example, take an old PS2 game and connect your PS2 (if you have one) to a 4K panel, or even an 8K panel like they were using for demo at the CES show. You'll see the lines so much more because you will see all mistakes. That is why we have to change settings in games, because the more detailed the screen, the more visible the flaw. If you run in 4K mode, you turn off Anti-aliasing, because it isnt needed. Look at some 4k, 8 and 16K videos by +Sloppywetblo . His channel is fantastic for showing so many different scenarios and definitions, sometimes testing 3x SLI Titans, sometimes SLI 980 Ti, and often will see how they run with a single card, but when you see his videos you will notice that even if he were to zoom, there are 0 jaggies in 4K, and 1080 looks muddy. Keep in mind, I am watching these videos on a 1367X768 monitor, and the difference is is absolutely unbelievable to see a side by side comparison of 4K next to 1080 on this 768 line laptop gpu, and a terrible quality laptop screen. The only thing you would notice different running a down-sampled 4k on a 1080 display Vs a real 4K display is if you can get close enough to your screen to see the pixels, that is the only downside. The textures themselves that are actually being displayed are going to look identical on both displays unless you are way too close to a 1080 display. In the end, if you can't see pixels on either display, you wont notice a difference unless you are close enough to that 4K TV to see those microscopic pixels, but they are microscopic, and the difference would be very small. It is all about rendering, and not about the display it is being output to. DSR is truly amazing. Keep in mind when you watch a BluRay in 1080, you will find movies shot with such high end cameras that the movie looks so real that it looks fake. If you dont see dots (pixels) then you dont see a difference, but you will see the DSR texture rate increase, and it is amazing. I suggest looking at a lot of videos from the guy's channel I mentioned.
Brent Turner I dont watch it anymore but i used to watch a lot of videos from sloppywetbelow. i have a 17.3 full hd laptop. Its 127ppi.And from a normal sitting distance of course i cant see those pixels but like when you look at the time at the bottom right i think it is blurry because there arent enough pixels showing them. I cant see the its pixels but i can understand there aren't much pixels showing them. Same goes for game too. When i look something at very far and try to understand what it is without closing in it just dosent look like something because maybe there is only 5 pixel showing it and dsr wont help with that. but if i had a 4k display i could distinguish easier what is it at there. There is still a lot of difference vs 4k vs 1080p 4xdsr. because no matter what you do its still 1080p and the ppi doesnt change and those pixels are at the same size. Maybe it doesnt bother everyone a lot but i would like to see my games the way i see them in real life so high pixes rate is realy important for me ;D but if u realy want to stick with a 1080p (AND HAVE A POWERFULL HARDWARE :D) its really is amazing :)
I am really surprised you do not see a drastic difference, since of course 1080 and 4K (coming in a couple months on disc) Films having an improvement is all texture based work done by a studio as well. This texture improvement on BluRay is evident on a 480 display, even tho it cannot display 1080, or even 720. I think I may know the problem you may be having. At your frame rate things are going to jutter. That is going to create an illusion to the brain of jagged edges because the image cannot stay still. In that case, yes, AA needs to get busy in order to keep the image from tearing, stuttering etc. for you to see a decent image during any movement running in 4K or higher. This could be why you are having this experience. Used to when TVs couldnt respond fast enough for fast paced sports like football, everything deteriorates the moment it begins to jutter. If you watch Batman The Dark Knight, in the beginning scenes they do a lot of panning from a helicopter or building, and you can look at the windows and bricks, and everything just turns into what appears to be an Aliased mess, all due to rate of movement. If you don't mind me asking, what type of GPU is running on your lappy? (laptop...)
+Brent Turner i actually have gt730m in my laptop xd and never tried dsr on it. but between 0:14 and 0:16 it shows the difference between 4xdsr and no aa. The difference is so little and i must stop and look carefully in order to apperciate the difference.(I saw some improvements in textures and some other lines but in general its still the same xd and those texture improvements are so minor :( ) example; look at the rope at left (the very long one) wheter it is 4xdsr or no aa its still jagged. but if it was 4k it would be harder to notice it is jagged. Any type of aa cant fix it unless it makes that rope thinner. We need 4k to see that smooth rope(it sounds funny getting 4k monitor for smoooooth ropes XD) Btw i didnt understand a lot about this part where you mentioned still image, stuttering, frame rates? why do i have to have stuttering in 4k? (sorry if i make you tired(?) )im not native american ;)
Most of my games look better in higher res like 1440 or 4k on low than they do if i crank aa i just go low and crank up to the highest res i can then add effects till i get somethings that stays above city
Theoretically the 960 in SLI should be around 1060-1070 performance, a 8350 won't bottleneck a 1060, thing is SLI requires more CPU, so yeah, I'd say you're bottlenecked. Keep in mind if you have VSync disabled you'll always hit 100% CPU usage due to the CPU rendering as many frames as possible, doesn't matter if you have a Fx 8350 or an I5 6600K. Bottlenecking depends on the game, the resolution, the framerate that you want to play at, etc.
Up next: DSLR
You get photos of the game you want to play, taken by Nvidia with a DSLR camera, mailed to you.
3hit This made my day.
Shit u predicted the future behold Nvidia Ansel
I mean we got DLDSR
4k DSR is sooo frickin awesome. I love it more than AA. It just looks amazing.
almost 9 years later, we can now use this with 4080/4090s with minimal fps loss
and now dldsr is out which is basically the same but produces better results with a lower resolution
I play everything at 150% scale DSR (3k downsample) and it looks amazing to me. On my 1080p screens going to 4k DSR from 3k only seems just slightly better at a noticeably larger performance hit. This is on a Titan X btw.
And what about smoothness percentage
@@AdrianMuslim 10-15% for 1440p downsampling. for 3x-4x DSR use 0 smoothness and turn nvidia FXAA on and the ingame FXAA off
4X MSAA MasterRace!
***** Nope, not in the FPS way.
0x MSAA Is the best
I can't even turn on AA without getting 40 fps, my pc sucks ;-;
***** 99,9% of games (the 0,1 % is minesweeper)
I still get around 230 fps with Max settings and 4x dsr, so im good
I love your techy videos that hit my intrests perfectly !
I don't know how you render your videos, but i think they are the most crisp I've ever seen!
It may be worth mentioning that you can use anti-aliasing(& any other features, all of which will presumably be done at the higher resolution before it's scaled down) in combination with DSR. Of course that will reduce the performance even more, but it can be good for older games.
very intelligent and descriptive comparison thanks philip!
Hey kliks, just a heads-up, you can force Supersampling only for transparent textures and keep using regular MSAA if you're looking for a balanced framerate, sharp image and avoiding lots of flickering foliage and such.
I usually use that tecnhique or just 8xSQ over the whole scene. Full-scene Supersampling tends to soften the image a bit when its used, but at least it softens the Supersampled image properly as opposed to lazy ass "optimized" FXAA just blurring all the flickering edges and making them even more noticable. Screw FXAA.
how?
Oh, in case you were wondering why SS and DSR look different: It is due to HDR.
If you downscale before mapping HDR -> LDR, you'll get jaggies in areas of high contrast.
If you map to HDR -> LDR and THEN downscale, you'll get smoother results.
The reason is this. Imagine 4 pixels, one is very dark, the other are extremely bright, like 10x brighter than your monitor can display.
The if you downscale BEFORE, the average color will be (10 + 10 + 10 + 0) / 4 which is 7.5, but then is clamped to 1.
If you downscale AFTER, the average color is (10 gets clamped to 1 here) (1 + 1 + 1 + 0) / 4 which is 0.75, which is is less than 1 and doesn't get clamped.
great video, as always! Thanks man!
Remember to turn on gfx card resolution scaling vs monitor scaling in the system driver.
I've found a sweet spot using DSR on may 1080p display. With my GTX1080 I usually choose ~1500px vertical with 4xMSAA, turn DSR smoothing to 100% and then use my BENQ monitor to apply hardware "superresolution" sharpening which is a type of unsharp mask filter. I turned up the refresh freq. from 60 to 75 Hz in the drivers (forced custom res. with DSR off) as well and can run DSR@75fps now. The resulting image is remarkably smooth with no staircasing effects. I'll take that quality any day vs noAA/fxAA 4K. It look like a movie!
And if I play the game on max 55~60 fps with low graphics and low resolution, what do I do ?
3kliksphilip But what if wallet is not kill?
3kliksphilip
Brilliant.
3kliksphilip I'm a poor brazilian guy, because of this I just answer you in 2016, my internet just load your conmentary now =(
Sell it and get new mecha
cant wait for the new 8k images crushed down on a 4k monitor with 8xDSR and 50fps :P
Great review! thanks
Thanks #Nvidia
I'm totally happy with your new technology called "DSR"
you gave us an amazing solution to not buying those overpriced screens yet :)
but instead having to buy the overpriced graphics cards
150€ for a 1050 Ti
overpriced
choose one
man i wish you'd do updated version of this video including amd's vsr, generally i think a lot of what is mentioned in this video is true, but with games that utilize TAA such as RDR 2 with is blurry mess i find dsr being a god saver, even 2x or 2.35x is making the game look bearable, only problem is finding good smoothing for those leess than 4x resolutions, not sure how it works on amd though
I saw you in a random casual game the other day :3
i typically never stand still long enough to notice jaggies on objects
The question I have is, how do you increase the internal resolution (like emulators do) without affecting things like the interface (GUI is too small at 4K in some games)...
especially in total war the small font becomes a nightmare. but this is also for monitors with resolutions higher than 1080p and not just dsr on a 1080p monitor. There is an ingame UI scaling but I feel like it just makes the text blurrier as it increases in size. The only real alternative is to download a larger font mod. but then some buttons will have text that spills over the edge of the button
I thought this was a really, really old method for AA in the CRT days, but they use regular AA methods because there is less of a performance hit.
it is normal, because next gen consoles uses 1080p, same as desctop PC, so performance on PC games are not lower than console. so no additional performance cost = you can use 4k or ultra AA.
this is so amazing, for years i've been looking for this! I don't know what the fuck he's talking about!
is 8k DSR supported for 4k gaming? yes, sorry i got too much money.
TheKeule33 I think so but I've never seen anyone try with that
I suppose you need a display with a higher native resolution, with 1920x1080 it let's you go at 4 times your resolution (3840x2160)
So with a 3840x2160 monitor it could go to 7680x4320?
Kalmer yes xddd that will be so useful... you can not notice a pixel at 4K, the market will make you buy a 8K monitor, but is not necessary, i will buy a 4K TV because HDR technology is only on 4K displays, but i don't care the 4K, 1080P DSR or AA options are amazing
You can see the difference between 4k and none 4k image on 720p monitor. 4k monitors doesn't have smaller pixels, what it have is more pixels. That's why 4k monitors are only available in larger screen sizes because of the additional pixels. So as long as you have a appropriate sized monitor for your pixel count, you actually effectively have a smaller part of a 4k monitor.
I think SS and DSR also introduce input lag due to the latency in downscaling the image every frame
yeah, unless you're playing an old game that is locked at 60fps and that doesn't support ssa (witch barely any games do) in that case it is ABOLUTELY worth it in every way ofourse. and what is the difference between 304 fps and 101 anyway? you barely even notice it
Omg saw you in that 1v1 csgo game mode! At first I thought were fake because you always were saying the same thing but then I checked your steam profile and you were real =) but we need a rematch on there because our 1v1 with knifes was cut short =')
Good video, is great to see that those intermiadte steps weren't as great as they would advertised them, and math logic would tell you that anyway
+rep i tried to set DSR on and my monitor stopped working and i managed to get it back up after an hour and a half. would do again 10/10
We need the option to watch 1080p videos in 60 fps and 30 fps, because 1080p60 lags for me :(
ikr?
Theres a Chrome extension called " h264ify " , it lets You do that.
As well as other things, like forcing YT to feed video in the h264 codec instead of their proprietary "vp9" , which can help playback performance on some older machines.
Don't know about the other browsers tho.
And yeah I know, Im like 3 years late... but Im hoping that someone, somewhere, will find this usefull one day :)
What's so special about DSR?
I used to downsample higher resolutions to my native one back all the time in the CRT days and I could do it right from the Nvidia driver settings.
It was just the best method back then, but other AA methods are just more efficient with modern graphics cards or at least that's how I understood it.
3kliksphilip The beauty of bicubic sampling.
Today I was flying around Nuke spectating a friends game when I noticed something peculiar in the ramp room, If I flew above the railing that is near the ceiling I can see white bleeding like when you look at an actual leak. Is this just me or did Valve screw up?
Philip, you're a mapping nerd can you investigate it?
Could this really be called a new technology? Downscaling has been around for a very long time. Unless it is processing the image in a strange way in the background, which is possible.
So DSR 2x native with 33% smoothness is like 2xSuperSampling AA?
I know about the tiny HUD, and such, and it is very annoying, not sure why nvidia has not posted anything on that subject,frankly its nice to see someone with the same issue haha, i am not alone. Not gunna lie, so far with AC4 i like dsr2x. Now also, thank you for the info about how the HD is not as good as 4k regarding pixels, something i will consider when upgrading my monitor, however gaming at 4k is still a expensive gpu cost. I have read that 17% smoothness is a nice setting for sharpness vs some blur, but if i bring it down to 0, then what? Will i have jaggz again? Currently i turned on smaa ontop of the 2x dsr. Seems very fluid and nice in ac4. Some games however i agree doesnt seem to be the best option especially if you have to read and write alot on the hud. Fortunately i do not in AC4. What was that you mentioned about the math?
Philip was ahead of the Krieg meta..
I wonder how AA could affect player visibility. Would it help by making the cover pixels be less obstructive or would it smooth the player pixels down so they blend with the background?
Both. These are the tradeoffs you make. I run no anti-aliasing so things "pop" off of the background more because they have sharp aliased edges, but at the same time running especially dsr would give you an image with more correct information and detail, with the downside of blurring. The only real solution is to get a higher res monitor.
***** Yet alot of pro's use a lower resulution than thier monitor supports... n0thing reasoned that his 1280 x 720 resolution runned more consistent across all PC's but if you have the option to use 1080p at a good framerate you should defenetly use that.
3kliksphilip
agreed which is the other reason i run it off, much higher framerate and lower input lag
You should have tried SGSSAA aswell. It looks better than standard SSAA 95% of the time but only uses a fraction of the resources.
I enable it in any game I can on my 780 through Nvidia Inspector. ^_^ They might have removed it from the new 900 series though, idk.
You need to jump through a couple of hoops in order to get it to work though.
FreaknShrooms If it's better, why did they remove it?
Wish DSR had more filtering options.
Only 4x DSR with 0% smoothness looks sharpest while having minimal aliasing and less artifacts.
Anything else 0% looks ugly due to obvious reasons [Not being an integer multiple of native resolution]. I have to set at least 22~33% get rid of artifacts on non 4x DSR resolutions. But those look blurrier than VSR, and Nvidia's own custom resolution downsampling method.
i have an problem.. ive played years with anti aliasing on in csgo, 4x and now it dosent work.. even if i change the settings in the nvidia control panel.. what should i do?
VSR (no DSR for me) is pretty useful for certain games (*cough* The Crew *cough*) which only have good-looking-and-not-generating-a-black-hole-in-the-gpu for nVidia. I play with more fps with 1440p on a 1080p screen and FXAA than 4XMSAA, and it still looks better.
Is there any point in using DSR and AA effects at the same time? I mean, it sounds like it does, but I would like a comparison between DSR + AA and DSR
I didn't really understand the full video, can you just tell me which setting to use?
4X MSAA?
3kliksphilip I just tested it, gonna use the 4X MSAA because I don't like the shuttering pixels on my karambit, now it looks clean!
Aare Riives while keeping my fps around 200 still.
You could compare nVdia DSR with BF4 resolution scale (final quality, GPU and CPU usage, FPS).
for some reason i dont get that frame drop , on 4xDSR GTX950 , rolling like a boss . i can see its working , 150FPS in CSGO , should be 60fps on 4k but i dont know , its not
On my NVIDIA control panel, theres just the option of 3D-Settings. I'm using a GTX 860M.
I've used super sampling for playing Dark Souls 2 and honestly it feels really awkward for me. I use a 720p monitor (I haven't had a need to upgrade yet) and render the graphics at 1933x1086. It feels really awkward and quite blury (Not to mention my framerate takes a hit not that it matters in a game that has it's FPS limited to 60). I still stick to native resolutions and use anti-aliasing because I feel like it works far better.
Of course it's blurry when you try to render at such odd resolutions. You'd have to render in 2560x1440 to remove that effect.
Dennis Duda I'm not sure if it's because my native resolution is at 1366x768 but the only other option I'm getting from Experience is 2732x1536. I'll give that a shot and see how it looks. I'll try GeDoSaTo and tinker with that. I'm still probably not going to use it in newer games because of performance hits but it's still fun to see what it looks like.
3kliksphilip Did they enable support for the 600 series yet? I'm pretty sure they did but I still can't find an option for DSR (Other than a few settings to setup DSR in the control panel) to enable it. It's not even in the program settings in the control panel. I'll have to look into it a bit further.
Dennis Duda
Update: Yep, setting to 2732x1536 looked really nice. Still not worth the framerate drop down to 20~ fps but still great for screenshots.
thanks mate !
I'm still not going to bother with antialiasing until I've got a really really good computer after I graduate from university. At the moment, I would rather beef up other graphic options or just keep it low in general for extremely high fps.
It would be really useful to use this type of thing when recording demos.
is there any aa technique that is good to use in combination with 4x dsr? maybe 4x dsr and 8xmsaa?
I get between 90-150 fps in CSGO at 1920x1080 with everything lowered. D: It gets blurry if I reduce the resolution anymore :c
how can you get 397 fps (on 1080p i assume)?
I have a gtx980 but can only get around 150-200 even on the lowest settings with no AA.
Then you have no GTX 980!
Wtf, i have r9 280x, playing in 1080p all high and i can play with 200fps. You have something really wrong, check your drivers. What cpu you have?
your 980 is broken!
Maybe the game uses your built in gpu if you have one.
Maybe your cpu sucks? For CSGO best are i5 @ 4Ghz+ and better cpus.
I knew it was old when I saw more than 60 FPS.
So which is better, 4K DSR or actual native 4K screen, i want to know if there are jaggies on native 4k screen monitors if you dont anable Anti-Aliasing
Native 4k is better and no, anti aliasing isn't really needed for 4k, because it's so sharp already.
Kirby's fucking pissed! Yeah i just saw a native 4k personally and now i understand why it is sharper, because pixel density is higher than 1080p
howdo u turn aff of this down i have a gtx 770 and an i7 3770 3.6ghz and i get 120 fps evrything on low -_- no my fps is not locked my console fps command is fps_max 0
my vsync is dissabled :s
i get 120/200 fps on low AND on high but it never goes above 200 :s
If you turn on Multicore rendering. It will enable all the cores in your CPU to work. I just changed it and it made my FPS a lot better. You may need to turn on raw imput to get rid of mouse lag with it.
xDAKPRODUCTIONSx i did so and it did not do alot tho :s i already ^put all my cores out of parking...
ZeroTroubles If he had vSync enabled he wouldn't be getting anything over 60
Can you do a new best graphic settings video for csgo for best fps :) ?
DSR seems to me to be such a small difference that it wont be noticeable while playing in full speed. Especially not in CS Go as it's not the most PC intensive game. Maybe in a bigger scale game the difference might be much better. But sacking about 100 fps for that small change is a big no for me.
Do you use the nvidia 3d vision/lightboost hack?
what gpu do you have fps will vary and you did not mention this variable why you do that?? MMHHH
Instead of "1/4 the frame rate" it is more fair to think of it in terms of milliseconds.
Let's say a shading process took 10ms, which is fairly hefty.
If you were getting 2.5ms/frame (400fps) before, it will drop to 12.5ms/frame which is 80fps, or 1/5 the frame rate. Sounds pretty shocking.
However, if you were getting 25ms per frame (40fps) before, it will drop to 35ms/frame, which is about 28fps or a 29% hit, compared to 1/5.
You were getting an outrageous frame rate before, so of course introducing antialiasing methods would be a disproportionately large hit.
can you make an update to this vid
why do your player models not have any animations?
i experience framrate drops in csgo, so i keep my settings down so when it drops it drops to 60 instead of 30-40fps. my pc isnt slow more graphically intensive games dont do that nearly as much
Neat, but how did he die?
Hey i have asus 1060 and i5 6600k I play csgo what do u suggest me for dsr factors? and its smoothness? also have benq
xl2430t.
Phil what's your current PC build?
3kliksphilip
Thanks
3kliksphilip Wow!
The first youtuber with a system almost identical specs with mine :D
Are you considering doing a similar video for MFAA, as well as its possible benefits?
Make it a Diffrence if i play on 60FPS or 120FPS but my Screen have only 60fps.
Yes, if you have more fps the monitor shows a "Newer" picture. But 120 is not ideal, because you easily can See ghosting. I locked my fps to 100
Hi! Somehow after this new 60fps update. I can't play 1080p60 videos. The video loads, but it stutters like a maniac. I can watch 1080p with 30 fps without problems, however. Does anyone know a fix to this?
3kliks, do you have a video or something for how you get such crisp quality on your csgo videos?
far cry 4 DSR can give 8x msaa quality?
Is there an AMD equivalent to DSR?
3kliksphilip Ok thanks :)
Robbie E If you use CRU you can get your monitor to think it's a 4K monitor. When you play games like that it will be the same as if you were using DSR. There are two caveats though, your monitor can't be locked i.e., not able to accept native signals, and you need to have the bandwidth to do 4K at a decent refresh rate.
what happens if I want to be your friend?
how do i activate this fps thingy in the bottom right corner?
net_graph 1 in your console
alright thanks
I simply can't play with anti aliasing, don't know why
Lat6 i bet it's just the shimmers of textures without AA. The shimmer makes enemies more noticeable, while AA makes the model more accurate.
will my desktop look like 4k if i turn it on?
Everything will be tiny
***** Ok, thanks for the answer
***** Reported,
***** wow... wtf.
My mind censored your comment in my own brain...
I swear I read "no u suck", hah!
Since i have a crappy 1366x768 screen im using VSR (the same as DSR, just for AMD) to put my Res on 1080p and im also using Super Sampling. Gives a nice effect. But not too noticable to be honest
I'm using a Samsung U28D590D which i payed £359 and bought a £12 DP to mini-DP and now am playing CS:GO in 4k@60hz at 90 fps on my xfx 7870 so saying the cheap 4k screens only support 30hz is just not true.
It's not really a new technology i remember doing downsampling with a amd card on battlefield 3 and that was a few years ago
Yeah, but now there is very little set-up involved.
Iam sad when you can max out some sick ass setting and still have +100 fps when i with everything on lowest cant get 60 ;_;
I've always used 4x. Yay!
Whenever I try and open my NVIDIA Control Panel, it just crashes. Anyone know how to fix this?
I found DSR super cool, not for CSS obviously ^^
cant wait for resolution that will make aa disappear as a thing completely.
10 year later
You will have to open 459 cases.
What's your PC specs?
do 4x dsr with 8xss or 16xq or 8x msaa
So long as it's not FXAA I'm cool with it
Samsung has got a cheap 60 Hz 4K (~380£)
120hz>4K imo (on gaming)
And it's been getting cheaper. I think a lot of people are hesitant about buying it because it's a TN panel. But man... I saw it in a local shop next to a bunch of IPS panels didn't stand out to me at first, I thought it was also IPS, then I saw the model number... It's probably one of the nicest TN panels I've seen, and the response time on it is really nice, would be great for gaming.
If anyone reads this and wants to buy it keep in mind: it has a pretty bad stand and it *is not* VESA mount compatible.
3hit Could get the $100 more expensive ASUS though.
Same panel, but Vesa and better mount.
Erik4boss Yeah. I had looked at reviews on the Asus' version, and a lot of people were complaining of popping noises on the Asus model, and some peoples monitors failing after that. I don't really want to get into the details of why it's doing that; but it seemed like it's because the monitor is trying to use the built-in speakers, even when there is no audio signal.
If I wanted a reasonably priced 4K60Hz monitor with a good stand and also VESA mount compatible, I would probably go with the AOC 28in 4K monitor; although that one is allegedly has about 50ms of input lag.
Marco Martins Stable 60 fps is smooth enaugh for me.
I would prefer 1440p 90hz but it does not exist
no aa is not good its too jaggy. between 2aa and super sampling it literally makes some thin lines disappear only 4xdsr can reduce those jaggies without destroying thin lines but not worth the lost fps. go buy a 4k monitor if u dont want jaggies ;)
+The Blitz A 4K display would actually display those jagged lines more prominently if not running in 4K mode. For example, take an old PS2 game and connect your PS2 (if you have one) to a 4K panel, or even an 8K panel like they were using for demo at the CES show. You'll see the lines so much more because you will see all mistakes. That is why we have to change settings in games, because the more detailed the screen, the more visible the flaw. If you run in 4K mode, you turn off Anti-aliasing, because it isnt needed. Look at some 4k, 8 and 16K videos by +Sloppywetblo . His channel is fantastic for showing so many different scenarios and definitions, sometimes testing 3x SLI Titans, sometimes SLI 980 Ti, and often will see how they run with a single card, but when you see his videos you will notice that even if he were to zoom, there are 0 jaggies in 4K, and 1080 looks muddy. Keep in mind, I am watching these videos on a 1367X768 monitor, and the difference is is absolutely unbelievable to see a side by side comparison of 4K next to 1080 on this 768 line laptop gpu, and a terrible quality laptop screen. The only thing you would notice different running a down-sampled 4k on a 1080 display Vs a real 4K display is if you can get close enough to your screen to see the pixels, that is the only downside. The textures themselves that are actually being displayed are going to look identical on both displays unless you are way too close to a 1080 display. In the end, if you can't see pixels on either display, you wont notice a difference unless you are close enough to that 4K TV to see those microscopic pixels, but they are microscopic, and the difference would be very small. It is all about rendering, and not about the display it is being output to. DSR is truly amazing. Keep in mind when you watch a BluRay in 1080, you will find movies shot with such high end cameras that the movie looks so real that it looks fake. If you dont see dots (pixels) then you dont see a difference, but you will see the DSR texture rate increase, and it is amazing. I suggest looking at a lot of videos from the guy's channel I mentioned.
Brent Turner I dont watch it anymore but i used to watch a lot of videos from sloppywetbelow. i have a 17.3 full hd laptop. Its 127ppi.And from a normal sitting distance of course i cant see those pixels but like when you look at the time at the bottom right i think it is blurry because there arent enough pixels showing them. I cant see the its pixels but i can understand there aren't much pixels showing them. Same goes for game too. When i look something at very far and try to understand what it is without closing in it just dosent look like something because maybe there is only 5 pixel showing it and dsr wont help with that. but if i had a 4k display i could distinguish easier what is it at there. There is still a lot of difference vs 4k vs 1080p 4xdsr. because no matter what you do its still 1080p and the ppi doesnt change and those pixels are at the same size. Maybe it doesnt bother everyone a lot but i would like to see my games the way i see them in real life so high pixes rate is realy important for me ;D but if u realy want to stick with a 1080p (AND HAVE A POWERFULL HARDWARE :D) its really is amazing :)
I am really surprised you do not see a drastic difference, since of course 1080 and 4K (coming in a couple months on disc) Films having an improvement is all texture based work done by a studio as well. This texture improvement on BluRay is evident on a 480 display, even tho it cannot display 1080, or even 720. I think I may know the problem you may be having. At your frame rate things are going to jutter. That is going to create an illusion to the brain of jagged edges because the image cannot stay still. In that case, yes, AA needs to get busy in order to keep the image from tearing, stuttering etc. for you to see a decent image during any movement running in 4K or higher. This could be why you are having this experience. Used to when TVs couldnt respond fast enough for fast paced sports like football, everything deteriorates the moment it begins to jutter. If you watch Batman The Dark Knight, in the beginning scenes they do a lot of panning from a helicopter or building, and you can look at the windows and bricks, and everything just turns into what appears to be an Aliased mess, all due to rate of movement. If you don't mind me asking, what type of GPU is running on your lappy? (laptop...)
+Brent Turner i actually have gt730m in my laptop xd and never tried dsr on it. but between 0:14 and 0:16 it shows the difference between 4xdsr and no aa. The difference is so little and i must stop and look carefully in order to apperciate the difference.(I saw some improvements in textures and some other lines but in general its still the same xd and those texture improvements are so minor :( ) example; look at the rope at left (the very long one) wheter it is 4xdsr or no aa its still jagged. but if it was 4k it would be harder to notice it is jagged. Any type of aa cant fix it unless it makes that rope thinner. We need 4k to see that smooth rope(it sounds funny getting 4k monitor for smoooooth ropes XD)
Btw i didnt understand a lot about this part where you mentioned still image, stuttering, frame rates? why do i have to have stuttering in 4k?
(sorry if i make you tired(?) )im not native american ;)
Most of my games look better in higher res like 1440 or 4k on low than they do if i crank aa i just go low and crank up to the highest res i can then add effects till i get somethings that stays above city
My CPU is bottlenecking my graphics cards so hard, my fps are the same with min and max graphics settings.
David Muscati Which game? Whats your rig? Vsync enabled or disabled?
German Lehmann
pretty much every game, Vsync disabled.
CPU: AMD fx 8350 @4,5Ghz
RAM: 16gb ddr3-1866Mhz
GPU: 2x gtx 960 4gb in SLI
Theoretically the 960 in SLI should be around 1060-1070 performance, a 8350 won't bottleneck a 1060, thing is SLI requires more CPU, so yeah, I'd say you're bottlenecked.
Keep in mind if you have VSync disabled you'll always hit 100% CPU usage due to the CPU rendering as many frames as possible, doesn't matter if you have a Fx 8350 or an I5 6600K.
Bottlenecking depends on the game, the resolution, the framerate that you want to play at, etc.
HD or FHD?
SGSSAA 4x FTW!
I, I, I don't understand what im meant to do?
What>
SS does the same thing. Im a huge fan of nvidia, but DSR sounds like copy pasta SS
#NoAAMasterRace
I just play with everything on the highest settings I can get away with.
1.5x dsr is plenty and looks better than anti-aliasing
I use 3x DSR in ARMA 3 and OMG! Beautiful.