@@excrubulentWell, that's not being deferential enough, which means you are committing contempt of cop, which means you are cruisin' for a bruisin'. Or worse, if you're also committing the crime of sassin' while not white.
It can be called power in a vague sense, they just want to get their way and not have any consequences, like narcissism. In fact I’m convinced that’s the case with a lot of people like that, someone messed them up and they didn’t develop properly psychologically. So in adulthood they will covet power and be swept up in right wing power politics of lording over others, and when they get even the slightest degree of power themselves they misuse it because they only ever wanted power for power’s sake, not to do the job the power is attached to, or to be heroic in someone’s else’s opinion. They already regard themselves that way so once they get power they don’t want anyone else telling them how to use it, because if those people don’t like how they’re behaving in the first place then they are obviously the ones who are wrong.
I think that one is significantly more on the "don't get it" end: I'm sure there are some cops who go for the skull just to trigger... comic-shop libs, I guess? But I think most of them are just going "badass who beats and kills criminals? Sure, that's me." It doesn't help that a lot of the imagery of "bad cops" in comics still has a lot of old-timey Serpico-type corruption vibes. (It's not surprising, given comics' NYC roots, but while the old-NYPD-style corruption has more-or-less disappeared (at least as a national issue), LAPD-style brutality has only grown.) That makes it easy for a cop who has never taken a bribe from a mob-affiliated business to go "yeah, the cops the Punisher hates are nothing to do with me. They're not even the "bad cops" I see and hate (and yet still protect), they're a kind of bad cop that doesn't exist anymore."
@@BingusLover45yeah. Especially with personal experience with former friends who were super obsessed with that shit, I don’t trust anyone who uses Punisher/Fight Club/American Psycho/Rick and Morty/Catcher in the Rye stuff. It just sets off red flags in my brain
@@elephantguy0790It's a weird one, because a lot of those are interesting enough. I don't worry about a dude that likes Fight Club or whatever... but when it becomes his whole personality, yeah, red flags (and not the good kind).
I think it comes down to how neoliberalism turns everything into an aesthetic. Nothing has baked-in politics, nothing has inherent meeting. They just like the sound of it and never interrogate what it's about.
They’ll sell us the rope. They think it’s just a nice aesthetic or a banger song but the change is coming and at least partly because of the shit they sold us thinking it’d be fine.
One thing that keeps sticking with me is a personal experience. I play D&D/Tabletop RPGs a bunch. I have a few groups of friends that I play regularly with, with a few different campaigns per month. This particular group I've been gaming with for close to a decade. So I know them pretty well. They are decidedly on socialist/anti-cop side of things. I say this to explain a bit about context before I start explaining the odd thing that happened. In the campaign, it's a fantasy version of earth where monsters and supernatural creatures someone still exist, but a secret global organization hunts them down if they find them due to fear of others and similar things. The players are a mix of supernatural creatures and humans, all part of a werewolf family that loves adopting and helping people (like big fluffy doggos). So obviously the "good guys" by just about every reasonable metric. However, given that the campaign "home base" takes place in a small town, the opportunity to run for sheriff (the current sheriff was heavily implied to know about the werewolf family and not cause them any issues) presented itself. During the campaign process, some rather...shady things happened, but in the end one of the players were elected sheriff, and the (objectively speaking) alternative person who was running (a detective who had a reputation for being honest, fair, and wanting actual justice, no matter who was in power) didn't win. Almost instantly (and certainly took me by surprise), the player used the tools of the sheriff to spy on people, to check records, etc. Like without any hesitation or moral quandaries. Objectively speaking, it was for good "outcomes" (such as stopping a man-eating monster or checking to see if new comers were a threat to the werewolf family), but it stuck with me how the *moment* that power was available, it was used for something outside of the law. I dunno, maybe I'm just making a deal out of nothing. I'm doing the campaign still and the players are off in the Faelands currently tracking down one of the player's mentors, but...that moment when there wasn't hesitation in that sheriff's office stuck with me.
There is a famous study called The Stanford Prison Experiment that may give you some insight into that kind of behaviour. I would post a link, but The Algorithm doesn't like it when I do that. To be honest, there is some controversy surrounding the study, but it does illuminate a certain aspect of human nature
@@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst That study has been debunked. (There were factors involved pushing for that outcome and biasing things. It wasn't a properly done study and not one worth referencing.) KnowingBetter on YT did a video on it a while back if you want to learn more about that.
it’s always baffled me why members of the right love punk, metal, and hip hop so much when the genres all have deep roots in leftism. your openness in your explanation was very insightful. thank you for your honesty and for educating yourself and others. great video.
Because none of those things actually have "deep roots in leftism." Punk, especially, was always about rich kids slumming it before they got white collar jobs and started voting Republican.
There's also deep roots in cool counterculture, and right wingers desperately want to be cool and countercultural. Conservatism and fascism are inherently syncretic and opposed to creation and new art movements, and can't really do more for themselves than remix things they already know and like. They love the aesthetics of the thing, and either can't see or dont want to engage with the underlying content. It's similar to how the right has hijacked the term "libertarian", which used to be a leftist signifier, and now is a term for "Guy who wants to have a child bride and not pay taxes."
In fact, they did. Historians are unsure how to trust sources from monestaries because they all used very strong language to describe a viking raid. Striking fear was merely a way of making things easier, and Christians were easy prey.
@@IgN5P The irony of course being that Christian raiders raided "pagan" temples all the time, looting them and burning, pillaging and r-wording. But when it was done to _Christian_ temples, oh noes! The eeeevul! Meanwhile the Norse didn't really care what you worshiped as long as you didn't force anyone else to. Hell, they only converted to Christianity because it helped when dealing with foreign powers.
...commenting on my own comment: Of course the whole looting, r-wording and pillaging thing is bad. Whether they wore Viking helmets (horns were ceremonial, not war-time) or Saxon or British ones.
The self-protective denial that goes into a lot of positions of authority is something I have to grapple with a lot. I'm not surprised to hear cops think that way as well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with leaning into the former cop perspective. There aren't a lot of creators speaking from that perspective and it's actually the reason I check out your videos.
Totally. It's cool to see someone with "boots on the ground" experience with the other side. It's more important to empathize with the oppressed, but it's also important to *understand* the oppressors. Not always empathize, but understand.
Which is funny as hell to me. Feeling tough pretending to be a bad guy, but one whose sole job is to maintain the status quo and stop anything that gets in the way of that maintaining. It's like conservatives pretending to be rebellious. It's just third grade logic no matter how you slice it, and the fact that grown ass adults continually fall for it says something about the deep ) and comical) lack of understanding we often celebrate in the US.
Not just them. For instance I’m transfem, non passing, and a massive horror fan and I often find myself strangely empowered by characters such as Buffalo Bill, Norman Bates, Pinhead played by Jamie Clayton (that one’s not transphobic it’s just really good), etc. the fact of the matter is villains are powerful by nature of needing to be scary, and people who seek power either due to being denied (I.E marginalized groups) it or due wanting to a more of it (politicians, cops, the rich) will identify with them.
In terms of should their be protest art if cops are just going to take it as their own: I don’t feel like the point of protest art is to end the thing it’s protesting. That’s naive and lazy. The point is it’s part of the community of the oppressed. You feel heard, you feel like it’s not just you who sees how fucked up things are. Maybe you become galvanized. Maybe you become educated if you are not one of the oppressed. It doesn’t serve just one purpose, so it’s not like the art failed just because cops love to blast Rage Against the Machine. And at the very, very least, how much worse would it be to have absolutely no art critiquing fascism and bigotry? I remember that a lot of queer art from when I was a young queer (early 90s) was scathingly critical and wickedly funny. Why? Well at the time we were well into the AIDS era, the Reagan era wasn’t too far in the past, and the thought of “politicians will genocide us simply through inaction” was still very present. Entertainment gave us community. I lived in a red state, but I could go to a concert with a queer band or go see a queer movie and be in community, just by being there. I could laugh and cheer at our wit and resilience. In my car or alone in my room, I could listen to people who understood me when no one in my own family did. That’s why we need this kind of art. And if our oppressors like it too? Well, fuck tha police.
Just like with the systems it critiques, you have to look at what did the art achieve to understand its purpose. What was the impact of the art on the communities which produced it? You laid it out perfectly. So yeah, the purpose of the art isnt to tear down the machine but help to form communities and inform them!
That honestly sounds like a joke from a comedy movie satirizing political campaigns. I had already sketched out the dialog in my head before finishing this post. It's weird living in a world where satire has become obsolete or even meaningless 😢 #PostSatire
They played You Can't Always Get What You Want by The Rolling Stones after Trump's victory speech in 2016. I always wondered if they did that on purpose to taunt the folks who didn't want Trump.
@@GodessAsh I mean yeah, but like, the IRA has long been associated with socialist/left wing movements. I mean, being nationalist isn't really anti-left. Marx understood it moreso as a third party in capitalism/communism "battle". So while ultimately not great, nationalism can undeniably advance the cause of socialism.
Nationalism is anti-international, and seems to me hard to separate from anti-democratic thinking. Even if it is useful in the short term, I can't see it being worth the cost.
@@jacobdoiron2851 yeah true. Overall nationalism is a roadblock but i do think it has its uses. I mean, the IRA from what I know was generally pretty left leaning with a few right wing subsections. Nationalism can unite a people which is very strong but… yeah not great for internationalism Edit: so as it turns out the provisional IRA was anti Marxist but still generallly left leaning while the OIRA was much more left leaning. The more you knoe
Your justification makes total sense, in a sad way. Even Killing in the Name uses the word "some", which unfortunately allows many to excuse themselves as "one of the good ones."
Don't worry about "dining out" on the ex-cop thing! I am an ex prison guard and an ex wannabe cop, and that wisdom is the thing I come back here for most.
I heard that US soldiers in Vietnam would tune into Vietnamese propaganda radio stations because in between propaganda broadcasts they would play US rock songs that were often blacklisted from US stations because the songs or the band were anti-war. Well that and the fact the that these stations often reported important news that Uncle Sam wouldn’t want you to hear for morale purposes, such as accurate number of losses of US troops from nearby battles and statuses of nearby bases.
There's a documentary on the Iraq war where a guy was talking about wiring up a discman to his tank so they could "be blasting Tupac as they rolled into Baghdad"
GOD DAMN that story about you bullying the kid is heinous. I knew it was gonna be bad & I know you're different now so I braced myself, but I still had an almost reflexive rage. I really like what you said about "Cops demand respect from you, but you have to earn it from them." Most of the cops I've met carry this attitude into being 'off duty' as well, which makes them insufferable to be around. Even if they don't, it's obviously still a problem. But I think the moral certitude that gets packaged with the job is one of the worst parts of the brain rot, as evidenced by your second explanation of "well i'm a good cop"
Reminds me a bit of a friend I had years back that was married to a cop. At one point she told me about how he’d once pulled her over and acted like he didn’t know her while writing her a (just barely factual) ticket for some minor traffic infraction. He later got ahold of her phone for a bit and texted me pretending to be her and clearly trying to get me to “admit” to some cheating relationship with her that didn’t exist. When I called him on it transparently not being her (especially since she and I had never talked like anything more than casual friends) he made some great implied threats about what he could do as an officer. The absolute certainty he was right that us having hung out occasionally meant cheating, and immediately resorting to lies and abuse of power… the behavior can very much carry outside the work.
Most cops are hopped up on some sorta substance to get through the day/night, constantly on edge and constantly under supervision/derision. The idea that respect, or anything for that matter, is owed to others, goes right out the window under the influence of any sorta power. They know that things can turn for the worst on a dime, which really feeds into the countercultural aspect.
Weirdly enough, I recently noticed, that in my community I've developed a bit of respect but also am pretty open about my "I don't like cops" attitude while holding my marxist views closer to my chest. The few cops that have come into contact with me seem to know they have to earn my respect and that my family is rather socially valuable. I really don't know why and It's not every time but it's definitely something I've noticed.
@@agirlkeepssecrets6644 policing naturally attracts those prone to Authoritarian thinking. It's not surprising then, given that, that they would recognize your relative position within a given community and acknowledge it - it's a fundamental part of their ideological framework to do so. Remember that cops generally do *not* place themselves at the top of the hierarchy that they enforce; they typically, and accurately, see themselves as the *enforcers of the hierarchy*, operating on behalf of those at the top. See how cops operate around the wealthy (especially wealthy white men), and you will see this deference to the hierarchy in full bloom. You experienced a reflection of that - they recognized that you operated within a position of relative privilege within the community, and consequently they approached with the same type of deferential attitude.
At first the first response annoyed me- but then I realized it perfectly folds into my projection theory, which makes it funny. Basically, the "I indulge in your rage art to prove it doesnt matter" doesnt work when you realize that whole thought process only comes around because someone got salty and felt the need to go out of their way to prove being able to make them salty doesnt matter. It obviously did however- i
I am a retired cop and a retired attorney. I think the video missed one element of the police psyche so I will chip in with my own experience. I went to law school while I was a cop. I took the bar exam and passed it while I was a cop. I became a licensed attorney while I was a cop. I remained a cop for many years while I was a licensed attorney. While I was in law school, I started to notice how often my police department would pass new policies and circulate new orders that clearly violated the law. I began writing employee reports in which I would mention a new policy or order, identify the legal problems, and provide a specific suggestion to address the legal issues I had identified. I would typically quote relevant statutes or cases. I would provide citations. I almost universally received negative responses. Even after I had become a licensed attorney, I would receive responses from police administrators who had never been to law school and were not members of the bar who would tell me that I was wrong. These administrators typically said they were going to continue doing what they wanted to do. In one conversation with a police captain, I quoted the U.S. Supreme Court in RAV v. City of St. Paul to explain why the police department’s policy was unconstiutional. The police captain responded by saying that Los Angeles was not St. Paul. While his statement was literally true, it also missed the point so badly as to be farcical. That captain later became a chief of police. All of this had a negative impact upon my career. It delayed my promotion to sergeant by over ten years and assured that I never promoted beyond the rank of sergeant. I also became aware of many instances in which cops were punished for doing the right thing. These cops would go out and do police work as they had been trained to do. They would meticulously follow department polices and orders. When something still went wrong, those police officers would often be punished for their actions. Police administrators with very little experience doing police work would point out how the officer’s actions “could have been different” and would impose suspensions on officers even when those officers correctly pointed out that they had strictly adhered to department policy and the law. In some cases, police administrators would ignore polices that they had personally approved. In some cases, police officers failed to adhere to department policy for valid humanitarian reasons and were still punished. For example, one police sergeant I knew refused to allow a man to be booked for a minor traffic warrant because the man was scheduled to have surgery to remove a life threatening tumor the following day. The sergeant was able to call the surgeon and verify the suspect was telling the truth. The man obviously could not have surgery while he was in jail and the sergeant concluded that preserving a human life outweighed the need to jail him for a minor traffic warrant. The police department decided that the sergeant was guilty of neglect of duty for failing to book the suspect and punished him for his actions. A lot of cops develop a degree of rage with their own departments because those departments so consistently do the wrong thing. Many of those cops personally identify with bands like Rage Against the Machine. They identify with lyrics that express rage against police departments and cops. I would quote some of those lyrics but I suspect RUclips would delete this comment if I did so.
My godfather was an RCMP sniper for the Emergency Response Team (think SWAT) who was one of "the good ones"... Still have to wonder how many indigenous protests he was aiming at in the 70s onward, waiting for the call. Or how many "bad apples" he turned in? Still love the man, and his family are great so I guess they're the 60%, but it's a struggle to reconcile
This brings me back to 2016/2017. I've always worked in restaurants and I was working at this bar with a kid going to school to be a cop. He was on aux and on shuffle Beyonce came on and he changed the song and I said, "Awh man, I love that song" He said, "I won't listen to Beyonce because she hates cops and I'm in school to be a cop" And I was so confused. He explained, "Well, her super bowl performance she basically said fuck the police by supporting a terrorist group" and I was even more confused. I was like, "Uh? The black Panthers?" And he said, "Yeah, they're terrorist cop killers" I responded in disagreement and we moved on. 2 songs later "Alright" by Kendrick Lamar came on and he was gleefully singing along and I was SO CONFUSED. I pointed out the song was EXPLICITLY anti police and he simply responded, "I don't really view it that way, it's about being alright in hard times" I responded "And we hate popo, wanna kill us dead in the street fo sho? It's explicitly anti cop. The struggle is the police" He shrugged and simply said he likes the song. I truly think he was only mad about Beyonce because right wing Facebook told him to be upset, not cause he actually gave a shit. That or he's never actually thought about Kendrick Lamar at all. I think about this interaction a lot
When I want respect, I want to be treated like a human being; when a cop wants respect, he wants to be treated like an absolute authority. We're not using the same definition of "respect". The universe prevented me from becoming a cop, and it was years before I found the gratitude I feel today. Totally worth a broken hand to have a soul.
My response to the prompt about whether or not the art is worth making if its just going to get recuperated by the machine is that the art isn't there for those that aren't going to hear (or heed) the message, its there for those who will. Recuperation sucks, but I don't think any amount of cops blasting Killing in the Name will silence the message of the song entirely.
Though recuperation of revolutionary art is inevitable, it can't mean the end of more art. Never let the bastards grind you down. Become the rage that fights the machine.
My coworker was wearing a Che Guevara belt at work the other day. He didn’t know who he was but knew he had some sort of association with communism. Either way he basically got his own type of counterculture so he gets the pass I guess.
one thing that capitalism always triumphs communism over is being able to turn your economic and political enemies into a profit, like it’s a mere joke. The “fuck capitalism” or “che” shirt you bought, you think it goes hard, but the people who made it in their small business are laughing because you fell right into their trap. They won and you didn’t even know it. Next, you might want to drink some Leninade to cool off all that anger you have after reading that.
Hey Phil, thanks for the content. I don’t know how much you want to touch on the subject, but all of your ex-cop stuff has been legitimately interesting, and I would love to hear more. I myself came from a very conservative family with an ex-cop stepdad (guess in three tries or less who him and my mom passionately support today, and how many “isms” and “phobias” are interwoven into their lexicon), and I was one of those idiots duped into military service after 9-11. Years later, I am not at all a fan of right wingers, cops, and the military industrial complex. It’s really great to watch content from someone who calmly and rationally explains their criticisms of the establishment .
Okay - I’m hearing two explanations that both make sense, and I would like to offer a third option (and not as a “no, it’s THIS one” but as a “yes, AND”) To make sure I understand the explanations you give, I’ll paraphrase: one, is that they listen to the music as a flex, to belittle and dismiss it’s messages; and two, is that they listen because they don’t really understand the criticisms of systemic power imbalances and oppression. Assuming that I’ve got those right, my third thought is gonna be a trip, but follow me on it: As a civilian, I listen to anti-cop music in the understanding that it’s a protest of the power structures that all of us live under, and it’s true that I live UNDER that power with the people who wrote those songs - we are in solidarity against those in power. A cop might have those exact same feelings and thoughts… because they believe that they are fighting “the power”, but have a very different idea of WHO that power belongs to. Instead of, say, the upper 0.01% of the richest people in America, and the politicians they have willing to aid and abet their monopolization and exploitation of society, does the cop think “the Jews” are secretly in charge? Or “big liberals” trying to push their “soft on crime” scheme to let immigrants live on welfare and take our jobs without paying taxes? Or the cabal of gays and transes trying to destroy men and the family? And the only thing that’s standing between America 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🫡 and total anarchy is YOU! So… y’know - it’s not hard to be a cop, grooving to this “fight the power” message when, despite BEING the power, you envision yourself as the scrappy underdog hero - the main character!
4:29 Reminds me of a quote from Kurt Vonnegut. “During the Vietnam War... every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.” People (especially creative people - and I do count myself in that) tend overstate the radical value of art.
Could he really judge the influence they had at that time in the moment. I’d imagine the us populace might not have been so anti war if those pop stars and rockers weren’t singing/talking about it. Gotta identify a problem before you can change it or else you’re gonna stay blind to it. Of course a painting isn’t gonna topple a empire but might make some people think on it
Ive seen more recently in a lot of leftist media criticism that "subtext is for cowards" (shout-out Sophie from Mars) and i really agree, or at least i think subtext has reached the limits of its usefulness. It seems that greater society has gotten less and less media literate or at least more willing to intentionally disregard any political subtext that may be present in the media they consume - if not both. I recognize its a thin line to walk but i truly think if leftist artists want their messages to actually be understood in the modern media landscape they have to make them as explicit and unignorable as possible
You're just wrong and parroting what a video essay told you to think. The funniest part is that the fact that you get all your opinions from "breadtube" means you are one of the most media illiterate people in the world. I doubt you even realize that most of those "sigma male grindset" videos are obvious parodies. 99% of people whk watch Fight Club know Tyler is the bad guy.
@@ozjchow Yup. You caught me. I like it when a movie is about something instead of having characters look directly into the camera and read political theory that I already know about. I love showing and hate telling.
i think there’s a certain level of enjoying the irony, like middle class white moms who are like “i listen to wutang clan 😏” which plays into your point about being ‘one of the cool ones’ but i think there’s also a lot of it just ending at liking the aesthetic juxtaposition of a cop listening to “gangsta rap” like they wanna be the cops from superbad
12:35 My reaction? Cops will be cops. None of it frustrated me, I’ve learned what to expect from those in power. And HELL YES we should still make art that critiques power, abuse of power etc… they can co-opt or recuperate all they want! Art is subject, no one can force you to accept their interpretation, so even the most profasc artist can make a profasc piece and I can interpret it as subverting it’s intended meaning… not even the artist or their intent can force me to accept their interpretation.
My father was in the military when he was alive. He liked the song " War Pigs" by Black Sabbath. I'm not a fan of the military myself and had him cut out of my life before he died because of lots of personal reasons, but him being a Sabbath and Metallica fan while being in the military felt off to me. The cognitive dissonance here is a lot. I am also a metalhead.
I don't think there's any cognitive dissonance there at all, tbh. Nobody is more anti-military than soldiers or ex soldiers and War Pigs is explicitly aimed at the leadership of the military rather than the individual grunts. In fact, some of the lyrics are sympathetic to the grunts and acknowledge the lack of agency everyone from the green recruit to the junior officer feels as a toothless cog in the gigantic killing machine. Even those soldiers that aren't politically or idealogically or ethically opposed to the military will still likely accumulate a personal resentment towards the machine as a result of personal experiences and so listening to a song like War Pigs can allow a vicarious outlet for that otherwise amorphous disdain. It can be cathartic.
I saw the title and thought "Yeah, that seems like a video I can turn on while I walk in and out of the room doing something else." I guess I forgot what That Dang Dad videos are like because every time I missed something while out of the room I found it imperative to skip back and actually watch what I missed.
@@swayback7375 I couldn't hear it when I left the room and didn't want to miss any of the points. I just forgot that, even when this channel makes a video with a title that sounds like it might not have a serious point to make, it always has a serious point and one that matters.
@@ThatDangDad It's so, so appreciated. There are great 2 hour long videos that are deep, interesting, and tightly paced, but there are infinitely more that are pushing for long runtimes cause y'know... that's what's optimal right now. So yeah. Uh. Appreciate small, meaningful videos that respect your time, and I love your discussions.
New sub 👍 I'm just trying to learn more about the police "mindset", especially in regard to officer safety. I'm glad this channel was recommended in my feed.
If you haven't seen it yet, I have a Police Videos playlist on my channel page that has a variety of topics in this vein. I hope it helps your research!
You could count on one hand the number of conservative dudes who actually understand the lyrics of fortunate son. Usually they just think “heehoo helicopter song”. Or born in the USA, for that matter
@@GenerationX1984 Yeah, BITUSA is about the mistreatment of Vietnam war veterans when they came home and politicians think it's a fist-pumping Murrica Fuk Ya anthem :) And they expected people to VOTE for them!
I am not particularly infuriated by any of these explanations. The context you added was enlightening, particularly the story about making the person stand up and sit down as a flex of power. I am fortunate to have had very few interactions with the police. Your videos explaining their headspace is interesting to me in the same way a video on MMA gym culture is. It may not be directly applicable to my life, but a novel experience none the less.
Revolution is a process, and often very like a war, whether "violent" or not. We make a move, and so does our opponent. The existence of a powerful and insidious opposition does not invalidate the struggle for liberation. We do not fight because victory is assured.
My brother, a combat veteran of several tours in namely Afghanistan and Kosovo (not in the US, but a NATO member country) loved Rage Against the Machine, NWA and listened to a lot of gangster rap despite being a pale ghost like the rest of the family. He was about as fluent in english as myself so it is not like he couldnt hear what they were singing or rapping about. He also loved a local punk band but would always say "That [front singer] guy is an absolute autonomist [ableist slur]" and was the first to accept me coming out of the closet. His political views were... very right wing. I don't know what went on in his head. He literally said he played on the Galactic Empire side in Star Wars: Galaxies due to his political opinions. He was very authoritarian, very against drugs, thought he knew all about communism and why it was bad. Most of his comrades came home as broken as himself, but many of them ended up growing dreadlocks, smoking weed, and I spot some of them at 1st of May parades and protests, even raves sometimes.. but my brother? He was loyal to his doctrine and indoctrination until the bitter end. He's dead now, guess the trauma and alcohol caused a collapse of contradictions. I miss him, but I also always wonder what the hell went through his head, I will never know his true motives, the full extent of his experiences nor his thoughts, but he definitely was one big self contradictory charlie foxtrot. Meanwhile I listen to shit you really wouldnt expect a "hard leftist queer" would listen to, sometimes things that directly contradict or insult my own views or beliefs, why? I know the lyrics, I can hear lyrics no matter what sort of music it is. I know the messages. Maybe it just runs in the blood? I fail to comprehend this world. Thanks for quitting your job.
@@goncalo33 I love myself some good opera or classical music, even prussian military marches, but I'll never see eye-to-eye with some of the people that listen to especially the latter form of music. I just like a steady beat, you could find me at a Laibach or Feindflug concert. Gangsta rap is hard to dislike, I love Jedi Mind Tricks and Memphis style rap/hiphop
Great video, Phil. My father (as I've probably mentioned in your comments or replies before?) was a cop for 25 years. He still listens to RATM sometimes, lol. (Weirdly, less so since he retired. Wonder why?) The second explanation is definitely more in line with my experiences with my dad--he was raised "colorblind" by opera singers in NJ, loves music, and was always a "good cop".
Just like the systems that recuperate them the artistic endeavors purpose are for what they accomplish. The songs and books and speeches do not stop the system but they do inform the rest of us what the system is doing. it is our job to stop the system and not participate in upholding it. The art is meant to tell us how and why.
POSIWID is one of my favourite analytical tools and, lowkey, grounding mantras. it's like an info-hazard the way it worms its way into your brain and I'm glad you've been infected too
Stafford Beer - The Brain of The Firm is one of my favorite books. Brian Eno got me into it as a mid teen. I did not expect Stafford Beer to be quoted in this video. Wow ! Great Job.
Thanks for illustrating the idea of recuperation, I hadn't yet discovered that theory, but have been trying to articulate why every ongoing or potential action for any potential good change gets neutered to be ineffective or counterproductive.
Many people can tell/teach about this subject. But I like that you do it as a former cop. Because maybe other cops are more willing to listen to you. And because it shows that people can change their opinion/character/morals/world view/ideology
As an old Trans Woman I always felt threatened. 1312 were always lurking around our clubs always looking for something for free. I was 2 months shy of being 10 during Stonewall. TY Phil for all you do for us Trans folk.
It's downright shameful how many have forgotten Stonewall and what it was about. Seems that since a certain portion of the community got recuperated, they're perfectly fine throwing the rest of us under the bus, while profiting from our struggles.
I think you miss a big point of art with your final question. The point can be self expression. I think a more apt question would be "What is the role of radical art when it can be so easily appropriated by the power it questions?"
Well FWIW i agree, make radical art because you have radical feelings. Recuperation is going to happen whether I create or not, so I create for the fulfillment it brings me. But I do think it's worth pondering whether and how to make something "unrecuperatable" or if that's even a worthwhile goal
@@ThatDangDadRecuperation causes the idea to dilute, but it also integrates it into the dominant culture, mildly swaying it towards itself. On the scale of generations, it is also a path of progress. This I believe with all my heart.
The second explanation is the one I thought of. The first definitely infuriates me more. I always feel like there's more hope for someone who just hasn't understood what's being said than someone who understands but is unmoved.
I work at a low-level in a university and this makes me think about the 'machine'/system of the academic institution I'm a part of - I wonder where the line is between the futility of trying to transform the system, vs the reality of needing a job/income that the system provides (and university jobs, at least in Australia, pay well). feels like a bit of a compromised position to be in sometimes
I know you don't want to do many i am an ex cop videos, but they are really helpful. if you are queer like me. it is really hard to understand why. why would anyone wants to be a cop, other than the obvious that they want control and power. and those small glimpse in the psychic of someone who was at the time a cop and especially one that tried to not be a bad person is really really important insight. it grounds the conversation and maybe just maybe, someone could find an actual use in opposing the police
@@ThatDangDad yeah and i totally respect that. i should have added, that till now your choices of video in which you talked about that stuff are thoughtful and useful and i feel that add to the convo and it is not your cashing in. i don't want you to just do this video obviously. it is not like i want to here cop stories. but the ones you have told felt like they had a place. i should have focused my comment on that. have a nice day! :)
Im not a cop but i understand why someone would wanna be. I dont like rule breakers myself and i understand that someone might want to help enforce those rules. I would ask you, why you do not understand this mindset.
"He's the one Who likes all our pretty songs And he likes to sing along And he likes to shoot his gun" But he knows not what it means Knows not what it means
@devilsoffspring5519 According to the 1993 Nirvana biography Come As You Are. The song In Bloom was written about the fair weather fans who started showing up at Nirvana concerts not understanding what the band was all about. They liked the songs but didn't understand the meaning.
@devilsoffspring5519 People misinterpret the meaning of media all the time. Nirvana was well known for their feminist and anti racist messaging. So when people would come to their concerts and start harassing women, black people and homosexuals. It was obvious that these people did not understand the music. This song is about how people misinterpret, media and project their own meaning on to it. And the clever use of double entender lead you to see a second meaning. Giving the an example in the song of what this song is really about. Most people don't think about music that much. It's just an inside joke.
Respect for sharing your cop story and your perspective. Self-Reflection is difficult when the world around you is such an echo chamber. It's good that years later, out of that world, you put further thought into your time in as a police officer. We're all growing and changing all the time. Thank you for that quote on the System Design and Purpose, it gives someone a lot to think about and can help explain many things in our world today.
I so appreciate hearing your perspective, as I'm often in community with cops who condemn bad actors but support the machine itself. Hell, there's a cop assigned to my school that is basically walking PR for the police department.
I used to work at a taco bell, shift was til 0330 and it was right next to where the freeway exits into town so I got lots of state cop customers. I would always play the bad boys song over my mic when seeing them roll into the drive thru, taking their order and handing it to them while they laughed
I think it’s very powerful being able to share the shameful things you’ve done as a cop in get past with seemingly no fear of embarrassment. I don’t know why but it really moved me
Recuperation is a constant threat. This is why revolutionary ideologies are such - because they must be an ongoing process that continually fights against domination, not just overthrows one corrupt power before becoming the next.
Overthrowing power requires more power. More power makes it possible to get away with abusing it more. Next group comes along and overthrows them, gets even *more* power to abuse, and the battle rages on.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Power is not inherently evil - only when used to create coercive hierarchies. A flat power distribution curve makes it exceptionally difficult for anyone to have the means to abuse what power they have.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Imo the 'human nature' argument is a spook, taking the form of whatever its proponent desires. If humans are inherently selfish or evil, then it makes no sense to empower one human over others - surely that human will abuse that power. If humans are naturally good, then of what use is an empowered leader? You can coordinate without one, and that extra power will not see a use with everyone voluntarily cooperating. If humans are neither good nor evil, then what makes the most sense is eliminating fringe cases, such as humans who are particularly empowered or disempowered, so that you can create systems which are less dependent on variables. TBH, 'human nature' doesn't exist in the manner that it is always invoked in debate, except as an escape route that shuts down opposition.
Damn man just found your channel through this video. Amazing vid. You were witty, know what you’re talking about, clear, concise and had a super potent message for an important topic more people need to know about. Plus the unique personal perspective. No lame filler or intro at all. Nice outro and an above average performance when saying like and subscribe. Big bonus points from me for mentioning cybernetics/ systems thinking and Stanford beer, since that’s in my academic wheelhouse. Just subscribed so I hope you keep it up.
I feel like you jus hit an easy nail on a complicated head... A case could be made (and often is) for no art being bad. Please note that the artwork may be good and/or bad regardless of the quality of the art. The wooping sound from the song in the video sounds nothing like the (actual) sound of the police. It's an example of the artwork being "good enough" to get the point across. And yet, in the moment it is fine art taking place in our ears, brains and hearts. Fine because it rouses emotion, stimulates conversation and comes across as loud without risking hearing damage. The artwork is simple, the effect is complex. The effect is Art. Another case could be made for the original art creating more art by being consumed, this is situational art. Situational art, in that the situation itself has become another work of art The police blasting woop woop sounds dumber than a bag of hammers, making it genious situational art. The fractal nature of this dumbity-genious is maddening, to the point that I'm wondering wether I'm just rambling
@ThatDangDad thank you so much for this video. A couple nights ago I wasted 2 hours of my time formulating a response to Ryan Chapman’s RUclips video “briefly explaining” CRT. RUclips kept throwing an error. Luckily I saved via copy and paste into Notes the response but I was as of yet too exhausted to go through the trouble of even breaking the response into comment and reply so I’ve been sitting on it. Grateful I’ve been patient up until now because though I generally respected his neutral and calm ability to deliver information with the opening for further individual research, his “take” on CRT… didn’t even make me angry. More like a feeling of emotional and spiritual disgust and horror. So thank YOU for being here. For not just recognizing but actively speaking out against and informing all of us about the nuances of this systemically driven world we live in but further owning up to your role you once played in it. Thank you sir, for you are truly a nuisance to white moderates everywhere.
I remember when I was a teenager a cop showed up at my apartment while my parents where out running errands and I just happened to be listening to fuck the police by nwa. As soon as I opened the door he immediately detained me illegally and when I asked him why I was being detained he said because the music you are listening to tells me that you may be hostile. He asked me about a fight that had happened between 2 other kids in my apartment complex earlier in the day and I told him I had nothing to say about it so He took me down the police station and put me in a holding cell for 4 hours before calling my parents to come pick me up. I have never had a good interaction with a police officer.
Goshdang, just spitting absolute fire from like minutes 7.5 through 12.5. I wish I could make many people in my life sit down and watch that. Excellent work.
I’m super happy that I just stumbled across your channel. I’m a former cop that wants to see law enforcement abolished and something new built in its place too.
Its like saying "we need to replace waffle house with denny's/ihop" or saying "lets get rid of all cars and replace them with horseless carriages" you need to actually figure out why and how to solve the problem,
I understand the sentiment that you don't 'want to eat out to much" about being a former cop. But I do think it's important. In part because you have a lot of insight.. But even more I think it's important for people on the left to be reminded that people aren't always done. By that I mean that the sentiment that someone is on the wrong side and so you should write them off is a bad idea. Some people just take longer to get there than others, and everyone has different life experiences. Ones that can often lead them down wrong paths, but that people can continue to grow, even if it doesn't always look like it. And of course, when people do escape these systems they often become far more fervently against them than anyone else because they understand them better.
All of this. And: especially in the LE community there is a pervasive idea that you are who you are, and forever condemned by your mistakes. It is important for cops to know that they aren't forever doomed by their bad actions (and thoughts). You, Phil, are keenly aware that what you did as a cop sucked. That your display of authority you talk about is disgusting. And you also know that you are no longer that person -- and that we all have the capacity for being corruptible and dark at times, given the right situation. So... I am sure that somewhere some cop could hear what you have to say and imagine a life where they aren't condemned to being a cop forever -- and that ultimately, that knowledge will change the world. We don't have to choose between being oppressors or oppressed. We can create a whole new society with different rules that work for most of us. And people won't have to lie, steal, or murder -- nor have to be cops or soldiers -- just to get by.
thanks for this bro. As a young black man growing up in the hood but went to an art school no one around me could understand why I was up to a dozen police encounters before I even graduated highschool. No it wasn’t any kind of taste for crime either. Like i said i was a kid but our community was over policed and my parents and extended family spent all of their free time at work or church, I had to learn how to content with the system on my own. First it was shocking, then it was infuriating and felt unfair then eventually (after a decade i’d say) i finally was able to figure out how to navigate. Interestingly enough it’s not enough to just be a rule-follower & cops use the word “respect” but what they really demand is blind deference.
It could also be as in the case with the Hammerskins basing their name on some imagery from Pink Floyd's "The Wall": they liked the portrayal of fascism. Some cops might agree and are proud to play their part in an opressive system.
I find it funny we cant seem to have law enforcement without the thought that the system is immediately fascist, nobody seems to look at the idea that a law enforcement agency can infact be built and run by people who dont have hateful ideas
This is absolutely fascinating and interesting this immediately as a creative (mostly a writer) makes me think about how I can incorporate this mentality into characters and critique it in an effective way in my own works
I've never really had negative experiences with cops. I'm a white Canadian so that may have something to do with it. I think that all of the points made in the video are valid but I still think that we need the police. What if I'm aware of domestic abuse. What if my vehicle gets broken into. What if I become aware of child porn on the internet. Who am I suppose to report it to if there aren't any police? Am I personally suppose to take matters into my own hands? That would lead to a very violent vendetta based society. The key is to reform or revolutionize the government and the legal system. Cops will enforce whatever the prevailing system is whether just or unjust. Now police procedures and police culture need reforming as well but enforcement isn't the main issue. Its the legal system, corporate control of the political system. The fact that the rich can buy better lawyers. These are the root problems. I think that even the most enlightened society would still require law enforcement, though it might look very different then what we currently have.
Honestly those less make me angry and, for the “one of the good ones” at least, more “I get where they’re coming from and don’t blame them for it”. Like, people want to believe that if they’re part of a bad system they’d be one of the first to speak up, and it’s much easier to just ignore/rationalize the cognitive dissonance by not thinking about it as a systemic issue at all. If that makes sense?? So yeah, it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to be angry at someone for doing the same thing anyone else in that situation would’ve done. That said, it doesn’t mean they should just get off scot free. They still did things to uphold that system, and being a part of something so completely will always leave marks that need to be dealt with. That other justification tho, does make me angry. Like babe, you getting off on lording it over weaker people *does* make you a bad person. Just grow up a bit my guy. Also, that anecdote about telling someone to stand up and then sit down is a really good depiction of how being part of such a system (reaping the benefits of power, feeling entitlement, etc.) leaves marks. I’m not sure how exactly to word my thoughts, but just know that it was impactful (especially considering it came from someone who’s now so totally against police, etc.).
It's the second one usually IMO. If they were currently capable of understanding the song they probably wouldn't have become a cop. Look at how often 'right leaning' people are surprised that blatantly 'woke' stuff is 'woke'. (cough X-men cough)
lol, the Carly Simon reference got me good. :D Love you, Phil. Glad you're better. (And I'm sure that's not a process that's done, and may never be, but ya know... glad you're better than you were.)
Thank you for this video, it is something I could never comprehend. thumbs up the NIN reference at this end ! I have a song for you : Ring 4 - Patrol by The Dear Hunter.
I remember after NWA was arrested during the Detroit F the police performance. The police officers asked for autographs.
That's hilarious, and I really hope they just laughed in their faces!
Munancho sighting
Dude I didn't know you were this based
@@josiahdublin7816everyone is. We all have bias, but the danger is in assuming you don’t.
@@privatedomicile6627 I'm pretty sure you misread that i typed 'based' not biased.
From what I've been able to tell, when cops demand 'respect', they actually mean 'absolute deference'.
And just try explaining to them that there's no law that says we have to respect them.
@@excrubulentWell, that's not being deferential enough, which means you are committing contempt of cop, which means you are cruisin' for a bruisin'.
Or worse, if you're also committing the crime of sassin' while not white.
@@LeftyConspirator Okay, if you don't have dibs on "Contempt of Cop" for a band name then I'm taking it.
@@excrubulentin Germany there is one. At least they're better trained to not murder people.
It can be called power in a vague sense, they just want to get their way and not have any consequences, like narcissism. In fact I’m convinced that’s the case with a lot of people like that, someone messed them up and they didn’t develop properly psychologically. So in adulthood they will covet power and be swept up in right wing power politics of lording over others, and when they get even the slightest degree of power themselves they misuse it because they only ever wanted power for power’s sake, not to do the job the power is attached to, or to be heroic in someone’s else’s opinion. They already regard themselves that way so once they get power they don’t want anyone else telling them how to use it, because if those people don’t like how they’re behaving in the first place then they are obviously the ones who are wrong.
I assume this is also why they use Punisher imagery.
I think that one is significantly more on the "don't get it" end: I'm sure there are some cops who go for the skull just to trigger... comic-shop libs, I guess? But I think most of them are just going "badass who beats and kills criminals? Sure, that's me." It doesn't help that a lot of the imagery of "bad cops" in comics still has a lot of old-timey Serpico-type corruption vibes. (It's not surprising, given comics' NYC roots, but while the old-NYPD-style corruption has more-or-less disappeared (at least as a national issue), LAPD-style brutality has only grown.) That makes it easy for a cop who has never taken a bribe from a mob-affiliated business to go "yeah, the cops the Punisher hates are nothing to do with me. They're not even the "bad cops" I see and hate (and yet still protect), they're a kind of bad cop that doesn't exist anymore."
I don't trust anyone that uses punisher imagery
@@trioptimum9027womp womp
@@BingusLover45yeah. Especially with personal experience with former friends who were super obsessed with that shit, I don’t trust anyone who uses Punisher/Fight Club/American Psycho/Rick and Morty/Catcher in the Rye stuff. It just sets off red flags in my brain
@@elephantguy0790It's a weird one, because a lot of those are interesting enough. I don't worry about a dude that likes Fight Club or whatever... but when it becomes his whole personality, yeah, red flags (and not the good kind).
I think it comes down to how neoliberalism turns everything into an aesthetic. Nothing has baked-in politics, nothing has inherent meeting. They just like the sound of it and never interrogate what it's about.
They’ll sell us the rope. They think it’s just a nice aesthetic or a banger song but the change is coming and at least partly because of the shit they sold us thinking it’d be fine.
"I'll take your Che Guevara and raise you one t-shirt with a picture of Che Guevara on it instead"
Who cares what it's about, music was made to make you bounce.
@@jetsflyingoffatrain4338 yes and movies are just there so you can watch cgi explosions
@@chillyoil528 people can enjoy things without being english majors or tories
One thing that keeps sticking with me is a personal experience. I play D&D/Tabletop RPGs a bunch. I have a few groups of friends that I play regularly with, with a few different campaigns per month. This particular group I've been gaming with for close to a decade. So I know them pretty well. They are decidedly on socialist/anti-cop side of things. I say this to explain a bit about context before I start explaining the odd thing that happened.
In the campaign, it's a fantasy version of earth where monsters and supernatural creatures someone still exist, but a secret global organization hunts them down if they find them due to fear of others and similar things. The players are a mix of supernatural creatures and humans, all part of a werewolf family that loves adopting and helping people (like big fluffy doggos). So obviously the "good guys" by just about every reasonable metric.
However, given that the campaign "home base" takes place in a small town, the opportunity to run for sheriff (the current sheriff was heavily implied to know about the werewolf family and not cause them any issues) presented itself. During the campaign process, some rather...shady things happened, but in the end one of the players were elected sheriff, and the (objectively speaking) alternative person who was running (a detective who had a reputation for being honest, fair, and wanting actual justice, no matter who was in power) didn't win.
Almost instantly (and certainly took me by surprise), the player used the tools of the sheriff to spy on people, to check records, etc. Like without any hesitation or moral quandaries. Objectively speaking, it was for good "outcomes" (such as stopping a man-eating monster or checking to see if new comers were a threat to the werewolf family), but it stuck with me how the *moment* that power was available, it was used for something outside of the law.
I dunno, maybe I'm just making a deal out of nothing. I'm doing the campaign still and the players are off in the Faelands currently tracking down one of the player's mentors, but...that moment when there wasn't hesitation in that sheriff's office stuck with me.
I know I don't have to explain the difference between "Chaotic Good" and "Lawful Good".
Control. Theyre looking for control
There have been studies which break down to power corrupts and even the left fall prey to it at times
There is a famous study called The Stanford Prison Experiment that may give you some insight into that kind of behaviour.
I would post a link, but The Algorithm doesn't like it when I do that.
To be honest, there is some controversy surrounding the study, but it does illuminate a certain aspect of human nature
@@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst That study has been debunked. (There were factors involved pushing for that outcome and biasing things. It wasn't a properly done study and not one worth referencing.) KnowingBetter on YT did a video on it a while back if you want to learn more about that.
@@sambeawesome If you read my comment again, I think you will find that I did mention the fact that it is controversial.
it’s always baffled me why members of the right love punk, metal, and hip hop so much when the genres all have deep roots in leftism. your openness in your explanation was very insightful. thank you for your honesty and for educating yourself and others. great video.
They're also genres that express anger. Anger at injustice, not hole-in-drywall anger, but most cops obviously can't make the distinction.
Because none of those things actually have "deep roots in leftism." Punk, especially, was always about rich kids slumming it before they got white collar jobs and started voting Republican.
There's also deep roots in cool counterculture, and right wingers desperately want to be cool and countercultural. Conservatism and fascism are inherently syncretic and opposed to creation and new art movements, and can't really do more for themselves than remix things they already know and like. They love the aesthetics of the thing, and either can't see or dont want to engage with the underlying content. It's similar to how the right has hijacked the term "libertarian", which used to be a leftist signifier, and now is a term for "Guy who wants to have a child bride and not pay taxes."
"educating yourself and others" seems to be what this channel is all about.
Power fantasy
The Vikings would've loved it if Catholic monks were writing poems about how murderous and scary the Vikings were.
Most of what we know about viking is catholic monks writing poems about them
In fact, they did. Historians are unsure how to trust sources from monestaries because they all used very strong language to describe a viking raid. Striking fear was merely a way of making things easier, and Christians were easy prey.
@@IgN5P The irony of course being that Christian raiders raided "pagan" temples all the time, looting them and burning, pillaging and r-wording. But when it was done to _Christian_ temples, oh noes! The eeeevul! Meanwhile the Norse didn't really care what you worshiped as long as you didn't force anyone else to. Hell, they only converted to Christianity because it helped when dealing with foreign powers.
...commenting on my own comment: Of course the whole looting, r-wording and pillaging thing is bad. Whether they wore Viking helmets (horns were ceremonial, not war-time) or Saxon or British ones.
The self-protective denial that goes into a lot of positions of authority is something I have to grapple with a lot. I'm not surprised to hear cops think that way as well.
Yeah, it's really mind-boggling how detached from reality they are!
I don't think there is anything wrong with leaning into the former cop perspective. There aren't a lot of creators speaking from that perspective and it's actually the reason I check out your videos.
Totally. It's cool to see someone with "boots on the ground" experience with the other side. It's more important to empathize with the oppressed, but it's also important to *understand* the oppressors. Not always empathize, but understand.
I recommend " We the People University".
There’s a certain kind of machismo in being the bad guy that attracts reactionary and fascist types
Same reason that type of person wants to be a cop!
Which is funny as hell to me. Feeling tough pretending to be a bad guy, but one whose sole job is to maintain the status quo and stop anything that gets in the way of that maintaining.
It's like conservatives pretending to be rebellious. It's just third grade logic no matter how you slice it, and the fact that grown ass adults continually fall for it says something about the deep ) and comical) lack of understanding we often celebrate in the US.
Not just them. For instance I’m transfem, non passing, and a massive horror fan and I often find myself strangely empowered by characters such as Buffalo Bill, Norman Bates, Pinhead played by Jamie Clayton (that one’s not transphobic it’s just really good), etc. the fact of the matter is villains are powerful by nature of needing to be scary, and people who seek power either due to being denied (I.E marginalized groups) it or due wanting to a more of it (politicians, cops, the rich) will identify with them.
"bad guys" you all have a 12 year old understanding of the world
@@arnold-ho8kh I need you to understand a major talking point of your side is a “good guy with a gun” vs a “bad guy with a gun”
In terms of should their be protest art if cops are just going to take it as their own: I don’t feel like the point of protest art is to end the thing it’s protesting. That’s naive and lazy. The point is it’s part of the community of the oppressed. You feel heard, you feel like it’s not just you who sees how fucked up things are. Maybe you become galvanized. Maybe you become educated if you are not one of the oppressed.
It doesn’t serve just one purpose, so it’s not like the art failed just because cops love to blast Rage Against the Machine. And at the very, very least, how much worse would it be to have absolutely no art critiquing fascism and bigotry? I remember that a lot of queer art from when I was a young queer (early 90s) was scathingly critical and wickedly funny. Why? Well at the time we were well into the AIDS era, the Reagan era wasn’t too far in the past, and the thought of “politicians will genocide us simply through inaction” was still very present. Entertainment gave us community. I lived in a red state, but I could go to a concert with a queer band or go see a queer movie and be in community, just by being there. I could laugh and cheer at our wit and resilience. In my car or alone in my room, I could listen to people who understood me when no one in my own family did. That’s why we need this kind of art.
And if our oppressors like it too? Well, fuck tha police.
Just like with the systems it critiques, you have to look at what did the art achieve to understand its purpose. What was the impact of the art on the communities which produced it? You laid it out perfectly. So yeah, the purpose of the art isnt to tear down the machine but help to form communities and inform them!
Really well put!
Trump rallies had the song from the Village People called “Macho Man”, which was ironic.
That honestly sounds like a joke from a comedy movie satirizing political campaigns. I had already sketched out the dialog in my head before finishing this post.
It's weird living in a world where satire has become obsolete or even meaningless 😢
#PostSatire
OMG, they are *SO* un self-aware.
Queeniest President ever
They played You Can't Always Get What You Want by The Rolling Stones after Trump's victory speech in 2016.
I always wondered if they did that on purpose to taunt the folks who didn't want Trump.
That was... certainly something. Lol😂 I remember watching the clip, assuming I was watching Daily Show being goofy about it by putting in Macho Man.
Nothing like a cop humming "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" under his breath in a bar to make you go "Wait what?"
To be fair, different parts of the IRA turned out to be nationalist/right wing.
@@GodessAsh I mean yeah, but like, the IRA has long been associated with socialist/left wing movements. I mean, being nationalist isn't really anti-left. Marx understood it moreso as a third party in capitalism/communism "battle". So while ultimately not great, nationalism can undeniably advance the cause of socialism.
@@PersonstuckinMichigan oh, gotcha
Nationalism is anti-international, and seems to me hard to separate from anti-democratic thinking.
Even if it is useful in the short term, I can't see it being worth the cost.
@@jacobdoiron2851 yeah true. Overall nationalism is a roadblock but i do think it has its uses. I mean, the IRA from what I know was generally pretty left leaning with a few right wing subsections. Nationalism can unite a people which is very strong but… yeah not great for internationalism
Edit: so as it turns out the provisional IRA was anti Marxist but still generallly left leaning while the OIRA was much more left leaning. The more you knoe
No one raindrop blames itself for the flood
Damn, that is poetry and I'm writing it down to remember
Shit like this is used to justify violence and genocide.
And neither do those fucking lakes. Just sitting there, evaporating! God!
This is the stupid man's smart phrase.
@@alreadyblack3341 So do the roads! Damn surface runoff!
Your justification makes total sense, in a sad way. Even Killing in the Name uses the word "some", which unfortunately allows many to excuse themselves as "one of the good ones."
Yeah, some are the same that burn crosses. But all defend the ones that burn crosses. It just takes longer to say...
Don't worry about "dining out" on the ex-cop thing! I am an ex prison guard and an ex wannabe cop, and that wisdom is the thing I come back here for most.
Was the same in afghanistan and Iraq. Dudes would be listening to lamb of god, which is aggressively anti-imperial and anti-war.
I heard that US soldiers in Vietnam would tune into Vietnamese propaganda radio stations because in between propaganda broadcasts they would play US rock songs that were often blacklisted from US stations because the songs or the band were anti-war.
Well that and the fact the that these stations often reported important news that Uncle Sam wouldn’t want you to hear for morale purposes, such as accurate number of losses of US troops from nearby battles and statuses of nearby bases.
@@spingebill8551people love Born In The USA despite being anti war as hell and talking about death
They played Broken Hands after we completed our 10mi ruck for the forge.
There's a documentary on the Iraq war where a guy was talking about wiring up a discman to his tank so they could "be blasting Tupac as they rolled into Baghdad"
GOD DAMN that story about you bullying the kid is heinous. I knew it was gonna be bad & I know you're different now so I braced myself, but I still had an almost reflexive rage.
I really like what you said about "Cops demand respect from you, but you have to earn it from them." Most of the cops I've met carry this attitude into being 'off duty' as well, which makes them insufferable to be around. Even if they don't, it's obviously still a problem. But I think the moral certitude that gets packaged with the job is one of the worst parts of the brain rot, as evidenced by your second explanation of "well i'm a good cop"
Reminds me a bit of a friend I had years back that was married to a cop. At one point she told me about how he’d once pulled her over and acted like he didn’t know her while writing her a (just barely factual) ticket for some minor traffic infraction. He later got ahold of her phone for a bit and texted me pretending to be her and clearly trying to get me to “admit” to some cheating relationship with her that didn’t exist. When I called him on it transparently not being her (especially since she and I had never talked like anything more than casual friends) he made some great implied threats about what he could do as an officer. The absolute certainty he was right that us having hung out occasionally meant cheating, and immediately resorting to lies and abuse of power… the behavior can very much carry outside the work.
People become cops not because they're smart
Most cops are hopped up on some sorta substance to get through the day/night, constantly on edge and constantly under supervision/derision. The idea that respect, or anything for that matter, is owed to others, goes right out the window under the influence of any sorta power. They know that things can turn for the worst on a dime, which really feeds into the countercultural aspect.
Weirdly enough, I recently noticed, that in my community I've developed a bit of respect but also am pretty open about my "I don't like cops" attitude while holding my marxist views closer to my chest. The few cops that have come into contact with me seem to know they have to earn my respect and that my family is rather socially valuable. I really don't know why and It's not every time but it's definitely something I've noticed.
@@agirlkeepssecrets6644 policing naturally attracts those prone to Authoritarian thinking. It's not surprising then, given that, that they would recognize your relative position within a given community and acknowledge it - it's a fundamental part of their ideological framework to do so.
Remember that cops generally do *not* place themselves at the top of the hierarchy that they enforce; they typically, and accurately, see themselves as the *enforcers of the hierarchy*, operating on behalf of those at the top. See how cops operate around the wealthy (especially wealthy white men), and you will see this deference to the hierarchy in full bloom. You experienced a reflection of that - they recognized that you operated within a position of relative privilege within the community, and consequently they approached with the same type of deferential attitude.
At first the first response annoyed me- but then I realized it perfectly folds into my projection theory, which makes it funny. Basically, the "I indulge in your rage art to prove it doesnt matter" doesnt work when you realize that whole thought process only comes around because someone got salty and felt the need to go out of their way to prove being able to make them salty doesnt matter.
It obviously did however- i
I am a retired cop and a retired attorney. I think the video missed one element of the police psyche so I will chip in with my own experience.
I went to law school while I was a cop. I took the bar exam and passed it while I was a cop. I became a licensed attorney while I was a cop. I remained a cop for many years while I was a licensed attorney.
While I was in law school, I started to notice how often my police department would pass new policies and circulate new orders that clearly violated the law. I began writing employee reports in which I would mention a new policy or order, identify the legal problems, and provide a specific suggestion to address the legal issues I had identified. I would typically quote relevant statutes or cases. I would provide citations.
I almost universally received negative responses. Even after I had become a licensed attorney, I would receive responses from police administrators who had never been to law school and were not members of the bar who would tell me that I was wrong. These administrators typically said they were going to continue doing what they wanted to do. In one conversation with a police captain, I quoted the U.S. Supreme Court in RAV v. City of St. Paul to explain why the police department’s policy was unconstiutional. The police captain responded by saying that Los Angeles was not St. Paul. While his statement was literally true, it also missed the point so badly as to be farcical. That captain later became a chief of police.
All of this had a negative impact upon my career. It delayed my promotion to sergeant by over ten years and assured that I never promoted beyond the rank of sergeant.
I also became aware of many instances in which cops were punished for doing the right thing. These cops would go out and do police work as they had been trained to do. They would meticulously follow department polices and orders. When something still went wrong, those police officers would often be punished for their actions. Police administrators with very little experience doing police work would point out how the officer’s actions “could have been different” and would impose suspensions on officers even when those officers correctly pointed out that they had strictly adhered to department policy and the law. In some cases, police administrators would ignore polices that they had personally approved.
In some cases, police officers failed to adhere to department policy for valid humanitarian reasons and were still punished. For example, one police sergeant I knew refused to allow a man to be booked for a minor traffic warrant because the man was scheduled to have surgery to remove a life threatening tumor the following day. The sergeant was able to call the surgeon and verify the suspect was telling the truth. The man obviously could not have surgery while he was in jail and the sergeant concluded that preserving a human life outweighed the need to jail him for a minor traffic warrant. The police department decided that the sergeant was guilty of neglect of duty for failing to book the suspect and punished him for his actions.
A lot of cops develop a degree of rage with their own departments because those departments so consistently do the wrong thing. Many of those cops personally identify with bands like Rage Against the Machine. They identify with lyrics that express rage against police departments and cops. I would quote some of those lyrics but I suspect RUclips would delete this comment if I did so.
My godfather was an RCMP sniper for the Emergency Response Team (think SWAT) who was one of "the good ones"... Still have to wonder how many indigenous protests he was aiming at in the 70s onward, waiting for the call. Or how many "bad apples" he turned in? Still love the man, and his family are great so I guess they're the 60%, but it's a struggle to reconcile
This brings me back to 2016/2017.
I've always worked in restaurants and I was working at this bar with a kid going to school to be a cop. He was on aux and on shuffle Beyonce came on and he changed the song and I said, "Awh man, I love that song"
He said, "I won't listen to Beyonce because she hates cops and I'm in school to be a cop"
And I was so confused. He explained, "Well, her super bowl performance she basically said fuck the police by supporting a terrorist group" and I was even more confused. I was like, "Uh? The black Panthers?" And he said, "Yeah, they're terrorist cop killers"
I responded in disagreement and we moved on. 2 songs later "Alright" by Kendrick Lamar came on and he was gleefully singing along and I was SO CONFUSED. I pointed out the song was EXPLICITLY anti police and he simply responded, "I don't really view it that way, it's about being alright in hard times"
I responded "And we hate popo, wanna kill us dead in the street fo sho? It's explicitly anti cop. The struggle is the police"
He shrugged and simply said he likes the song. I truly think he was only mad about Beyonce because right wing Facebook told him to be upset, not cause he actually gave a shit. That or he's never actually thought about Kendrick Lamar at all.
I think about this interaction a lot
lmao oh wow
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
9:40 “The machine didnt need me to be personally bigoted for me to do the work of bigotry. “
That was really well said.
Picturing your car blasting: Hug the police coming straight from the underground
When I want respect, I want to be treated like a human being; when a cop wants respect, he wants to be treated like an absolute authority. We're not using the same definition of "respect". The universe prevented me from becoming a cop, and it was years before I found the gratitude I feel today. Totally worth a broken hand to have a soul.
They want you to “respect their authority” (meaning submit to them and whatever they want basically)
My response to the prompt about whether or not the art is worth making if its just going to get recuperated by the machine is that the art isn't there for those that aren't going to hear (or heed) the message, its there for those who will. Recuperation sucks, but I don't think any amount of cops blasting Killing in the Name will silence the message of the song entirely.
Though recuperation of revolutionary art is inevitable, it can't mean the end of more art. Never let the bastards grind you down. Become the rage that fights the machine.
One of the best examples of recuperation I can think of is the Che Guevara shirts that were all over the place in the '90s
My coworker was wearing a Che Guevara belt at work the other day. He didn’t know who he was but knew he had some sort of association with communism.
Either way he basically got his own type of counterculture so he gets the pass I guess.
one thing that capitalism always triumphs communism over is being able to turn your economic and political enemies into a profit, like it’s a mere joke. The “fuck capitalism” or “che” shirt you bought, you think it goes hard, but the people who made it in their small business are laughing because you fell right into their trap. They won and you didn’t even know it.
Next, you might want to drink some Leninade to cool off all that anger you have after reading that.
Nah cops playing Sound of da Police to break up parties is hilarious though 😂
Hey Phil, thanks for the content. I don’t know how much you want to touch on the subject, but all of your ex-cop stuff has been legitimately interesting, and I would love to hear more. I myself came from a very conservative family with an ex-cop stepdad (guess in three tries or less who him and my mom passionately support today, and how many “isms” and “phobias” are interwoven into their lexicon), and I was one of those idiots duped into military service after 9-11. Years later, I am not at all a fan of right wingers, cops, and the military industrial complex. It’s really great to watch content from someone who calmly and rationally explains their criticisms of the establishment .
There's something about the malice and arrogance of the first explanation that makes my skin crawl and my blood boil
Okay - I’m hearing two explanations that both make sense, and I would like to offer a third option (and not as a “no, it’s THIS one” but as a “yes, AND”)
To make sure I understand the explanations you give, I’ll paraphrase: one, is that they listen to the music as a flex, to belittle and dismiss it’s messages; and two, is that they listen because they don’t really understand the criticisms of systemic power imbalances and oppression.
Assuming that I’ve got those right, my third thought is gonna be a trip, but follow me on it:
As a civilian, I listen to anti-cop music in the understanding that it’s a protest of the power structures that all of us live under, and it’s true that I live UNDER that power with the people who wrote those songs - we are in solidarity against those in power.
A cop might have those exact same feelings and thoughts… because they believe that they are fighting “the power”, but have a very different idea of WHO that power belongs to. Instead of, say, the upper 0.01% of the richest people in America, and the politicians they have willing to aid and abet their monopolization and exploitation of society, does the cop think “the Jews” are secretly in charge? Or “big liberals” trying to push their “soft on crime” scheme to let immigrants live on welfare and take our jobs without paying taxes? Or the cabal of gays and transes trying to destroy men and the family? And the only thing that’s standing between America 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🫡 and total anarchy is YOU!
So… y’know - it’s not hard to be a cop, grooving to this “fight the power” message when, despite BEING the power, you envision yourself as the scrappy underdog hero - the main character!
4:29 Reminds me of a quote from Kurt Vonnegut.
“During the Vietnam War... every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.”
People (especially creative people - and I do count myself in that) tend overstate the radical value of art.
Could he really judge the influence they had at that time in the moment. I’d imagine the us populace might not have been so anti war if those pop stars and rockers weren’t singing/talking about it.
Gotta identify a problem before you can change it or else you’re gonna stay blind to it.
Of course a painting isn’t gonna topple a empire but might make some people think on it
Ive seen more recently in a lot of leftist media criticism that "subtext is for cowards" (shout-out Sophie from Mars) and i really agree, or at least i think subtext has reached the limits of its usefulness. It seems that greater society has gotten less and less media literate or at least more willing to intentionally disregard any political subtext that may be present in the media they consume - if not both. I recognize its a thin line to walk but i truly think if leftist artists want their messages to actually be understood in the modern media landscape they have to make them as explicit and unignorable as possible
You're just wrong and parroting what a video essay told you to think. The funniest part is that the fact that you get all your opinions from "breadtube" means you are one of the most media illiterate people in the world. I doubt you even realize that most of those "sigma male grindset" videos are obvious parodies. 99% of people whk watch Fight Club know Tyler is the bad guy.
@@Abcdefg-tf7cu Wow, you really like subtext
@@ozjchow Yup. You caught me. I like it when a movie is about something instead of having characters look directly into the camera and read political theory that I already know about. I love showing and hate telling.
@@Abcdefg-tf7cu Ok, wasn't trying to catch you. It was just a lot of anger for subtext.
@@ozjchow "Everyone who disagrees with me is angry." Did you also draw me as a yelling soyjack, or just think about it?
i think there’s a certain level of enjoying the irony, like middle class white moms who are like “i listen to wutang clan 😏” which plays into your point about being ‘one of the cool ones’ but i think there’s also a lot of it just ending at liking the aesthetic juxtaposition of a cop listening to “gangsta rap” like they wanna be the cops from superbad
12:35
My reaction? Cops will be cops.
None of it frustrated me, I’ve learned what to expect from those in power.
And HELL YES we should still make art that critiques power, abuse of power etc… they can co-opt or recuperate all they want!
Art is subject, no one can force you to accept their interpretation, so even the most profasc artist can make a profasc piece and I can interpret it as subverting it’s intended meaning… not even the artist or their intent can force me to accept their interpretation.
@Yugopnik brought me here, awesome video! Thanks for your work ❤
the musicians knew their target audience well. they made music cops like.
My father was in the military when he was alive. He liked the song " War Pigs" by Black Sabbath.
I'm not a fan of the military myself and had him cut out of my life before he died because of lots of personal reasons, but him being a Sabbath and Metallica fan while being in the military felt off to me. The cognitive dissonance here is a lot.
I am also a metalhead.
There is no cognative dissonance. Listening to music doesn't make you a radical.
I don't think there's any cognitive dissonance there at all, tbh. Nobody is more anti-military than soldiers or ex soldiers and War Pigs is explicitly aimed at the leadership of the military rather than the individual grunts. In fact, some of the lyrics are sympathetic to the grunts and acknowledge the lack of agency everyone from the green recruit to the junior officer feels as a toothless cog in the gigantic killing machine.
Even those soldiers that aren't politically or idealogically or ethically opposed to the military will still likely accumulate a personal resentment towards the machine as a result of personal experiences and so listening to a song like War Pigs can allow a vicarious outlet for that otherwise amorphous disdain. It can be cathartic.
@@fuzzydunlop7928yeah it's not like he was listening to stick the flag by propagandhi
I saw the title and thought "Yeah, that seems like a video I can turn on while I walk in and out of the room doing something else." I guess I forgot what That Dang Dad videos are like because every time I missed something while out of the room I found it imperative to skip back and actually watch what I missed.
I keep my stuff short so every frame counts!!! :)
Yup, I learned… it’s hard to find good conte t to listen without watching
@@swayback7375 I couldn't hear it when I left the room and didn't want to miss any of the points. I just forgot that, even when this channel makes a video with a title that sounds like it might not have a serious point to make, it always has a serious point and one that matters.
@@ThatDangDad It's so, so appreciated. There are great 2 hour long videos that are deep, interesting, and tightly paced, but there are infinitely more that are pushing for long runtimes cause y'know... that's what's optimal right now.
So yeah. Uh. Appreciate small, meaningful videos that respect your time, and I love your discussions.
New sub 👍
I'm just trying to learn more about the police "mindset", especially in regard to officer safety. I'm glad this channel was recommended in my feed.
If you haven't seen it yet, I have a Police Videos playlist on my channel page that has a variety of topics in this vein. I hope it helps your research!
You could count on one hand the number of conservative dudes who actually understand the lyrics of fortunate son. Usually they just think “heehoo helicopter song”. Or born in the USA, for that matter
Born in the USA is a protest song and yet it's played every 4th of July like it's some homage to patriotism and national pride.
@@GenerationX1984 Yeah, BITUSA is about the mistreatment of Vietnam war veterans when they came home and politicians think it's a fist-pumping Murrica Fuk Ya anthem :)
And they expected people to VOTE for them!
I am not particularly infuriated by any of these explanations. The context you added was enlightening, particularly the story about making the person stand up and sit down as a flex of power. I am fortunate to have had very few interactions with the police. Your videos explaining their headspace is interesting to me in the same way a video on MMA gym culture is. It may not be directly applicable to my life, but a novel experience none the less.
Revolution is a process, and often very like a war, whether "violent" or not. We make a move, and so does our opponent. The existence of a powerful and insidious opposition does not invalidate the struggle for liberation.
We do not fight because victory is assured.
Yes!
My brother, a combat veteran of several tours in namely Afghanistan and Kosovo (not in the US, but a NATO member country) loved Rage Against the Machine, NWA and listened to a lot of gangster rap despite being a pale ghost like the rest of the family. He was about as fluent in english as myself so it is not like he couldnt hear what they were singing or rapping about.
He also loved a local punk band but would always say "That [front singer] guy is an absolute autonomist [ableist slur]" and was the first to accept me coming out of the closet.
His political views were... very right wing. I don't know what went on in his head. He literally said he played on the Galactic Empire side in Star Wars: Galaxies due to his political opinions.
He was very authoritarian, very against drugs, thought he knew all about communism and why it was bad. Most of his comrades came home as broken as himself, but many of them ended up growing dreadlocks, smoking weed, and I spot some of them at 1st of May parades and protests, even raves sometimes.. but my brother? He was loyal to his doctrine and indoctrination until the bitter end. He's dead now, guess the trauma and alcohol caused a collapse of contradictions. I miss him, but I also always wonder what the hell went through his head, I will never know his true motives, the full extent of his experiences nor his thoughts, but he definitely was one big self contradictory charlie foxtrot.
Meanwhile I listen to shit you really wouldnt expect a "hard leftist queer" would listen to, sometimes things that directly contradict or insult my own views or beliefs, why? I know the lyrics, I can hear lyrics no matter what sort of music it is. I know the messages. Maybe it just runs in the blood? I fail to comprehend this world.
Thanks for quitting your job.
It's all about the beat and the person's voice. If it sounds good, we'll listen to it, even if we're not gangsters nor right-wingers.
@@goncalo33 I love myself some good opera or classical music, even prussian military marches, but I'll never see eye-to-eye with some of the people that listen to especially the latter form of music. I just like a steady beat, you could find me at a Laibach or Feindflug concert. Gangsta rap is hard to dislike, I love Jedi Mind Tricks and Memphis style rap/hiphop
Great video, Phil. My father (as I've probably mentioned in your comments or replies before?) was a cop for 25 years. He still listens to RATM sometimes, lol. (Weirdly, less so since he retired. Wonder why?)
The second explanation is definitely more in line with my experiences with my dad--he was raised "colorblind" by opera singers in NJ, loves music, and was always a "good cop".
Just like the systems that recuperate them the artistic endeavors purpose are for what they accomplish. The songs and books and speeches do not stop the system but they do inform the rest of us what the system is doing. it is our job to stop the system and not participate in upholding it. The art is meant to tell us how and why.
about 13 seconds in, already subbed. Great title and thumbnail too, the CC sealed the deal for me.
also, dope pipe collection
I once had a police car pass by blasting NwA's 'F+ the Police'
POSIWID is one of my favourite analytical tools and, lowkey, grounding mantras. it's like an info-hazard the way it worms its way into your brain and I'm glad you've been infected too
Stafford Beer - The Brain of The Firm is one of my favorite books. Brian Eno got me into it as a mid teen. I did not expect Stafford Beer to be quoted in this video. Wow ! Great Job.
Thanks for illustrating the idea of recuperation, I hadn't yet discovered that theory, but have been trying to articulate why every ongoing or potential action for any potential good change gets neutered to be ineffective or counterproductive.
Many people can tell/teach about this subject. But I like that you do it as a former cop. Because maybe other cops are more willing to listen to you. And because it shows that people can change their opinion/character/morals/world view/ideology
As an old Trans Woman I always felt threatened. 1312 were always lurking around our clubs always looking for something for free. I was 2 months shy of being 10 during Stonewall. TY Phil for all you do for us Trans folk.
It's downright shameful how many have forgotten Stonewall and what it was about. Seems that since a certain portion of the community got recuperated, they're perfectly fine throwing the rest of us under the bus, while profiting from our struggles.
Got rec’d this vid on FD’s page. Cop brain is crazy work 🤣
I think you miss a big point of art with your final question. The point can be self expression. I think a more apt question would be "What is the role of radical art when it can be so easily appropriated by the power it questions?"
Well FWIW i agree, make radical art because you have radical feelings. Recuperation is going to happen whether I create or not, so I create for the fulfillment it brings me. But I do think it's worth pondering whether and how to make something "unrecuperatable" or if that's even a worthwhile goal
@@ThatDangDadRecuperation causes the idea to dilute, but it also integrates it into the dominant culture, mildly swaying it towards itself.
On the scale of generations, it is also a path of progress.
This I believe with all my heart.
While I don't agree with a lot of your ideas and politics, I will say this is an interesting topic you're covering
The second explanation is the one I thought of. The first definitely infuriates me more. I always feel like there's more hope for someone who just hasn't understood what's being said than someone who understands but is unmoved.
Really enjoyed hearing your perspective as an ex-cop. And thanks for the quote, sums up our issue nicely.
I work at a low-level in a university and this makes me think about the 'machine'/system of the academic institution I'm a part of - I wonder where the line is between the futility of trying to transform the system, vs the reality of needing a job/income that the system provides (and university jobs, at least in Australia, pay well). feels like a bit of a compromised position to be in sometimes
You might like Sara Ahmed. In What's The Use and Complaint she talks about navigating the Educational System machine and she's an amusing writer
Probably why soldiers listen vietnam war songs. Probally bit drak irony.
I know you don't want to do many i am an ex cop videos, but they are really helpful. if you are queer like me. it is really hard to understand why. why would anyone wants to be a cop, other than the obvious that they want control and power. and those small glimpse in the psychic of someone who was at the time a cop and especially one that tried to not be a bad person is really really important insight. it grounds the conversation and maybe just maybe, someone could find an actual use in opposing the police
Mainly, I just don't want to "cash in" on my past. I want to help educate and inspire action rather than just rest on a "gimmick" for clout.
Being "queer" has never prevented anyone from wanting to be a cop. Ernst Rohm was an openly gay nazi.
@@ThatDangDad yeah and i totally respect that. i should have added, that till now your choices of video in which you talked about that stuff are thoughtful and useful and i feel that add to the convo and it is not your cashing in.
i don't want you to just do this video obviously. it is not like i want to here cop stories. but the ones you have told felt like they had a place. i should have focused my comment on that.
have a nice day! :)
Im not a cop but i understand why someone would wanna be. I dont like rule breakers myself and i understand that someone might want to help enforce those rules.
I would ask you, why you do not understand this mindset.
good analysis, enjoyable video. the perspective of an ex-cop is an important one. looking forward to more from you!
"He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun"
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means
It's a song about adolescence, I'm pretty sure "shooting his gun" refers to monkeyspanking and has nothing to do with cops!
@devilsoffspring5519 According to the 1993 Nirvana biography Come As You Are. The song In Bloom was written about the fair weather fans who started showing up at Nirvana concerts not understanding what the band was all about. They liked the songs but didn't understand the meaning.
@@devilsoffspring5519 He was making fun of people like you.
@@MichaelDean-i2x Well, they knew what the band was all about by hearing their music...
@devilsoffspring5519 People misinterpret the meaning of media all the time. Nirvana was well known for their feminist and anti racist messaging. So when people would come to their concerts and start harassing women, black people and homosexuals. It was obvious that these people did not understand the music.
This song is about how people misinterpret, media and project their own meaning on to it. And the clever use of double entender lead you to see a second meaning. Giving the an example in the song of what this song is really about.
Most people don't think about music that much. It's just an inside joke.
Respect for sharing your cop story and your perspective. Self-Reflection is difficult when the world around you is such an echo chamber. It's good that years later, out of that world, you put further thought into your time in as a police officer.
We're all growing and changing all the time. Thank you for that quote on the System Design and Purpose, it gives someone a lot to think about and can help explain many things in our world today.
Another banger❤🎉 #ACAB
why does youtube let you put hashtags in comments if you can't find comments using hashtags
Wow this guy is the smartest cop I've ever heard speak and I've been to jail a few times thx to my drinking habit.
I was hoping you'd expound on this a bit. When you mentioned it a while back, it was something that hadn't occurred to me, but makes perfect sense.
I so appreciate hearing your perspective, as I'm often in community with cops who condemn bad actors but support the machine itself. Hell, there's a cop assigned to my school that is basically walking PR for the police department.
I used to work at a taco bell, shift was til 0330 and it was right next to where the freeway exits into town so I got lots of state cop customers. I would always play the bad boys song over my mic when seeing them roll into the drive thru, taking their order and handing it to them while they laughed
I think it’s very powerful being able to share the shameful things you’ve done as a cop in get past with seemingly no fear of embarrassment. I don’t know why but it really moved me
Recuperation is a constant threat. This is why revolutionary ideologies are such - because they must be an ongoing process that continually fights against domination, not just overthrows one corrupt power before becoming the next.
Overthrowing power requires more power. More power makes it possible to get away with abusing it more. Next group comes along and overthrows them, gets even *more* power to abuse, and the battle rages on.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Power is not inherently evil - only when used to create coercive hierarchies. A flat power distribution curve makes it exceptionally difficult for anyone to have the means to abuse what power they have.
@@alphajackal6648 Very good points, but all of them neglect the influence of human nature.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Imo the 'human nature' argument is a spook, taking the form of whatever its proponent desires. If humans are inherently selfish or evil, then it makes no sense to empower one human over others - surely that human will abuse that power. If humans are naturally good, then of what use is an empowered leader? You can coordinate without one, and that extra power will not see a use with everyone voluntarily cooperating. If humans are neither good nor evil, then what makes the most sense is eliminating fringe cases, such as humans who are particularly empowered or disempowered, so that you can create systems which are less dependent on variables.
TBH, 'human nature' doesn't exist in the manner that it is always invoked in debate, except as an escape route that shuts down opposition.
@@devilsoffspring5519 I created a response, but it seems the algorithm overlords decided it wasn't to be.
Damn man just found your channel through this video. Amazing vid. You were witty, know what you’re talking about, clear, concise and had a super potent message for an important topic more people need to know about. Plus the unique personal perspective. No lame filler or intro at all. Nice outro and an above average performance when saying like and subscribe. Big bonus points from me for mentioning cybernetics/ systems thinking and Stanford beer, since that’s in my academic wheelhouse. Just subscribed so I hope you keep it up.
I feel like you jus hit an easy nail on a complicated head...
A case could be made (and often is) for no art being bad. Please note that the artwork may be good and/or bad regardless of the quality of the art. The wooping sound from the song in the video sounds nothing like the (actual) sound of the police. It's an example of the artwork being "good enough" to get the point across. And yet, in the moment it is fine art taking place in our ears, brains and hearts. Fine because it rouses emotion, stimulates conversation and comes across as loud without risking hearing damage. The artwork is simple, the effect is complex. The effect is Art.
Another case could be made for the original art creating more art by being consumed, this is situational art. Situational art, in that the situation itself has become another work of art
The police blasting woop woop sounds dumber than a bag of hammers, making it genious situational art. The fractal nature of this dumbity-genious is maddening, to the point that I'm wondering wether I'm just rambling
@ThatDangDad thank you so much for this video.
A couple nights ago I wasted 2 hours of my time formulating a response to Ryan Chapman’s RUclips video “briefly explaining” CRT. RUclips kept throwing an error. Luckily I saved via copy and paste into Notes the response but I was as of yet too exhausted to go through the trouble of even breaking the response into comment and reply so I’ve been sitting on it.
Grateful I’ve been patient up until now because though I generally respected his neutral and calm ability to deliver information with the opening for further individual research, his “take” on CRT… didn’t even make me angry. More like a feeling of emotional and spiritual disgust and horror.
So thank YOU for being here. For not just recognizing but actively speaking out against and informing all of us about the nuances of this systemically driven world we live in but further owning up to your role you once played in it.
Thank you sir, for you are truly a nuisance to white moderates everywhere.
I remember when I was a teenager a cop showed up at my apartment while my parents where out running errands and I just happened to be listening to fuck the police by nwa. As soon as I opened the door he immediately detained me illegally and when I asked him why I was being detained he said because the music you are listening to tells me that you may be hostile. He asked me about a fight that had happened between 2 other kids in my apartment complex earlier in the day and I told him I had nothing to say about it so He took me down the police station and put me in a holding cell for 4 hours before calling my parents to come pick me up. I have never had a good interaction with a police officer.
Goshdang, just spitting absolute fire from like minutes 7.5 through 12.5. I wish I could make many people in my life sit down and watch that. Excellent work.
Considering that intro, you are now,
*That Dang Teacha* 😊
I’m super happy that I just stumbled across your channel. I’m a former cop that wants to see law enforcement abolished and something new built in its place too.
How do you abolish law enforcement and replace it with a new institution without it still enforcing law?
Its like saying "we need to replace waffle house with denny's/ihop" or saying "lets get rid of all cars and replace them with horseless carriages" you need to actually figure out why and how to solve the problem,
I understand the sentiment that you don't 'want to eat out to much" about being a former cop. But I do think it's important. In part because you have a lot of insight.. But even more I think it's important for people on the left to be reminded that people aren't always done.
By that I mean that the sentiment that someone is on the wrong side and so you should write them off is a bad idea. Some people just take longer to get there than others, and everyone has different life experiences. Ones that can often lead them down wrong paths, but that people can continue to grow, even if it doesn't always look like it.
And of course, when people do escape these systems they often become far more fervently against them than anyone else because they understand them better.
All of this.
And: especially in the LE community there is a pervasive idea that you are who you are, and forever condemned by your mistakes. It is important for cops to know that they aren't forever doomed by their bad actions (and thoughts). You, Phil, are keenly aware that what you did as a cop sucked. That your display of authority you talk about is disgusting. And you also know that you are no longer that person -- and that we all have the capacity for being corruptible and dark at times, given the right situation. So... I am sure that somewhere some cop could hear what you have to say and imagine a life where they aren't condemned to being a cop forever -- and that ultimately, that knowledge will change the world. We don't have to choose between being oppressors or oppressed. We can create a whole new society with different rules that work for most of us. And people won't have to lie, steal, or murder -- nor have to be cops or soldiers -- just to get by.
I was taking a sip of coffee when you dropped the Carly Simon reference, and I had to stifle a laugh to not cover my tv in coffee. Great vid, thanks!
Please keep talking about anti cop things. I want to know all about your anti police and anti prison ideas
thanks for this bro. As a young black man growing up in the hood but went to an art school no one around me could understand why I was up to a dozen police encounters before I even graduated highschool. No it wasn’t any kind of taste for crime either. Like i said i was a kid but our community was over policed and my parents and extended family spent all of their free time at work or church, I had to learn how to content with the system on my own. First it was shocking, then it was infuriating and felt unfair then eventually (after a decade i’d say) i finally was able to figure out how to navigate.
Interestingly enough it’s not enough to just be a rule-follower & cops use the word “respect” but what they really demand is blind deference.
It could also be as in the case with the Hammerskins basing their name on some imagery from Pink Floyd's "The Wall": they liked the portrayal of fascism. Some cops might agree and are proud to play their part in an opressive system.
I find it funny we cant seem to have law enforcement without the thought that the system is immediately fascist, nobody seems to look at the idea that a law enforcement agency can infact be built and run by people who dont have hateful ideas
You were at 68 dislikes, and I couldn't just pass up that opportunity, so here is a comment to make up for that. Good vid tho
It's like when conservatives like anti-war music, like buddy...
Or when Nazis like Nazi characters in movies who are depicted as unambiguously bad.
Being conservative has nothing to do with war. There's probably more progressives that have started wars
This is absolutely fascinating and interesting this immediately as a creative (mostly a writer) makes me think about how I can incorporate this mentality into characters and critique it in an effective way in my own works
Glad this guy made it clear hes a police abolitionist at the top of the video so I can disregard everything he says ☺
I've never really had negative experiences with cops. I'm a white Canadian so that may have something to do with it. I think that all of the points made in the video are valid but I still think that we need the police. What if I'm aware of domestic abuse. What if my vehicle gets broken into. What if I become aware of child porn on the internet. Who am I suppose to report it to if there aren't any police? Am I personally suppose to take matters into my own hands? That would lead to a very violent vendetta based society. The key is to reform or revolutionize the government and the legal system. Cops will enforce whatever the prevailing system is whether just or unjust. Now police procedures and police culture need reforming as well but enforcement isn't the main issue. Its the legal system, corporate control of the political system. The fact that the rich can buy better lawyers. These are the root problems. I think that even the most enlightened society would still require law enforcement, though it might look very different then what we currently have.
Honestly those less make me angry and, for the “one of the good ones” at least, more “I get where they’re coming from and don’t blame them for it”. Like, people want to believe that if they’re part of a bad system they’d be one of the first to speak up, and it’s much easier to just ignore/rationalize the cognitive dissonance by not thinking about it as a systemic issue at all. If that makes sense?? So yeah, it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to be angry at someone for doing the same thing anyone else in that situation would’ve done. That said, it doesn’t mean they should just get off scot free. They still did things to uphold that system, and being a part of something so completely will always leave marks that need to be dealt with.
That other justification tho, does make me angry. Like babe, you getting off on lording it over weaker people *does* make you a bad person. Just grow up a bit my guy.
Also, that anecdote about telling someone to stand up and then sit down is a really good depiction of how being part of such a system (reaping the benefits of power, feeling entitlement, etc.) leaves marks. I’m not sure how exactly to word my thoughts, but just know that it was impactful (especially considering it came from someone who’s now so totally against police, etc.).
We have to fight against recoup as much as possible. Public shaming in the age of social media is a real tool
It's the second one usually IMO. If they were currently capable of understanding the song they probably wouldn't have become a cop. Look at how often 'right leaning' people are surprised that blatantly 'woke' stuff is 'woke'. (cough X-men cough)
lol, the Carly Simon reference got me good. :D
Love you, Phil. Glad you're better. (And I'm sure that's not a process that's done, and may never be, but ya know... glad you're better than you were.)
Came here looking for this comment (to check if someone had caught it) and I’m glad I found it ❤
@@alarcon99 Yay. :)
They like the irony.
They don’t think of themselves as the bad guy.
And they are too fucking comfortable.
Thank you for this video, it is something I could never comprehend. thumbs up the NIN reference at this end ! I have a song for you : Ring 4 - Patrol by The Dear Hunter.
Copitalism subsumes all critique?
It tries to...
could a 3rd option be that the irony is funny?
woop woop
Great video and I can appreciate your honesty thank you
NGL that story about you telling the guy to stand up and sit down made me like you less.
as it should!
@@ThatDangDad keep doing what you're doing.