Fun fact from a classically trained music teacher. When Disa and the two other dwarf women are singing, their music begins in unison and harmony. Towards the end, a fourth voice enters that creates dissonance, or discord, causing the harmonic structure of the music to fail…along with their efforts. Wonder who was the fourth voice “sowing discord” into the music? Good job by the composer.
@@jamesmyers931 To me it seemed as if it was Disa layering herself on top, trying too hard or pushing herself because the mountain wasn't responding or whatever the problem was.
I like the composer bringing in what I assume is a Bulgarian women's chorus (not this scene, but throughout the episode). Actually the motif is very similar to the opening song of that famous Mystère des Voix Bulgares album, I think it was something like "kalva sviri"?
as i told my brother my BIGGEST complaint wiht s1 was the music, it was marvel music, i told my brother that if this season doesnt even try to hit the elven/mordor vibe i wont even bother because even him as a non "super fan" noticed it. but im loving the music so far it matters a lot with LOTR more than any other fantasy universe
What an amaizing detail. Especially given that this also how the world of Arda was created and than it was Morgoth that was creating the dissonance in the song.
@mrmootjepiratemo4003 Oh okay thanks I'm not really familiar with the lore. It's kind of a shame really because Cirdan seems to be a good mentor to Elrond, and giving him the ring might be a way of paying off his legacy or wisdom to him.
I remember thinking the same about the dialogue of "A sharer of gifts. Annatar." immediately followed by "Annatar, Lord of Gifts" but upon rewatch, Celebrimbor actually puts an emphasis/italics on the "Lord," almost as a clarification of the Quenya name. Yet another small little Sauron manipulation that I think works beautifully, with him pretending to show humiility knowing Celebrimbor will know the true meaning of the name.
I'm loving how they're portraying Annatar and his entrance was amazing. I'm also glad that they kept Charlie Vickers for the part instead of recasting for "Annatar".
@@user-jt1js5mr3fi actually messed with bronwyn so much but i’m glad they killed her off it made sense with all the different plot highways going on lol
What if it's Gandalf and a Blue Wizard? The wizard name mystery box is as tiresome as it was in s1 and in a way if it's not Gandalf it's just as bad because of all the unsubtle hints that it is indeed him.
They're already past that point, its already the biggest blunder in television. When I watch the episodes now I look at it as a comedy, it helps with the pain to get through! :)
We see that the Dark Wizard is working with Eminem. We know from S1 that Eminem worships Sauron. It doesn't make sense for the Dark Wizard to be an Istari since they fight Sauron's influence. Unless they are going all in with this "one of the blue wizards may have been corrupted" theory?
I am not sure if you missed this but Nori, when talking about the Stranger looking for a staff, says something like "He is looking for a gand". That conversation came right after they had been trying to pick a name for the Stranger. I have a feeling gand is going to be combined with something like elf to form Gandalf but tbh I really hope the Blue Wizard thing is right.
Yo your guess was almost right. The stoors called him Grand -elf, since they've never seen an elf before and thought the istar was an elf. So yeah Grand-elf became Gandalf :)
Yeah that was honestly really good. It shows that his deception is to just say yes to what others want. He doesn't need to tell lies, just tell the right people the right things, or satiate their fears.
I got the feeling that Sauron didn't mean to say Annatar. He meant to say the elvish for "Sharer of Gifts", but his arrogance got the better of him. When Celebrimbor responds "Annatar...Lord of Gifts" to me Sauron looks kind of surprised, like he didn't realize he had said that. It makes sense that Sauron of all beings would subconsciously switch the two words.
@@78cunobelinthey don’t even have the rights to the Silmarillion, numpty. They’re working off footnotes and appendices of Tolkien’s. Part of the reason we have the weird timeline issues we have is they specifically don’t have the rights to that story.
Could the Dark Wizard be a huge misdirect? "Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old." Perhaps this sorcerer becomes one of the Nazgul?
Hmmm--you may be on to something. Calling the character a sorcerer in the credits might have been too on the nose. How about this for an addendum to your theory: The Stranger is a blue wizard, & he'll meet the OTHER blue wizard along the way, somewhere in Rhûn or maybe further south. I don't recall the dialog specifically, but the way the "dark wizard" & the mask dude talked about an istar might leave room for the implication that they know of more than one (even though I'm pretty sure they never said istari plural).
maybe not the WItch King, but this is what I was thinking as well. I was thinking hes a human sorcerer dbbling in dark amgic and is eventually gonna get schooled by an actual Wizard; (and a comment elsewhere on this video opened me up to the idea they could become a Nazgul later)
Watched all three episodes and I'm very impressed with the changes they made from Season 1. I thought the dialogue and pacing, although they still had some issues, were much improved. Personally I really enjoyed watching these episodes and I can't wait for ep. 4 next week.
i liked them as well, but the slow pacing of season one didn't bother me at all. I care about the characters in season two in large part because of the slower character/friendship development of season one. And the portrayals of places/cultures was stunning, especially Numenor and Moria. Plenty to take in and appreciate before it's all destroyed.
I think it's implying a youngening effect of the ring - of you look closely, he also has less wrinkles and his hair is more of a blonde colour. Makes sense in a way, I guess
Hey there NOTR it is a relief to see you look at Rings of Power without the overly heavy critical eye of so many out there. Way i see it is quite simple; despite all its Lore shortfalls and limited access to source material we have two options; 1. Enjoy it on its own terms and get the most out of it and 2. Persist in hating it and not seeing any good at all (throw out baby and bathwater). I prefer Option 1 and am stoked to see you lean in that direction too. Oh and by the way, deep bow to your Lore proficiency. The 'education' vids on all sorts of LOTR themes are excellent. Good on you man!
@@normis6620 “I have walked through the dust and the deserts of far-away lands, in search of an artist possessing the craft to save all Middle-earth. A storm is coming Celebrimbor. I can bring you the knowledge none other possesses. I can unlock your grandest abilities. And our work is complete, never again will the world overlook you as the mere scion of Feanor but forevermore revere you… The Lord of the Rings.” My gorgeous Lord Annatar was so divine on that scene 😌
The Halbrand route to Annatar may have been needed. Instead of Celebrimbor simply accepting a Lord Of Gifts who shows up claiming to be a Valar, Sauron gains his trust first by helping him in a mortal guise. Celebrimbor is receptive to the big reveal AFTER being helped to work a needed miracle.
Nice episode, I liked the Rhun part more than I expected. Personally, I don't mind the whole Haladriel thing, but to each its own. Obviously the dwarves are always a highlight
I WAS on 'Team Blue Wizard', mostly because the show went hard on two mystery boxes - Halbrand and The Stranger. Both were narrowed down to two things almost immediately. Sauron and Gandalf were the obvious answers, but it just seemed hard for me to believe that they would work so hard on the mystery boxes and base their entire show around them, and then have them BOTH be the most obvious answer. As someone who has seen the full 2nd season at this point, I now know not to give these folks so much credit in the future, which is why I now suspect the Dark Wizard will be Saruman. Because it's obvious and a big name. These people don't have the extra gear it would take to not do the obvious thing.
One thing I really like about this show is how it incorporates music and singing into the story. Appropriately the score is also fantastic. I loved Bear McCreary’s work on Battlestar Galactica and I think he outdoes himself again here.
This episode finally brought some writing and emotional gravitas worthy of association with Tolkien. The scene between Cirdan and Elrond was excellent. "Judge the work. And leave judgment concerning those who wrought it to the Judge who sees all things." Beautiful. The confrontational scenes between Elrond and Galadriel are hitting their mark, too. Elrond's rebuke is strong but rooted in concern. Galadriel is beginning to acknowledge her hubris and grow. The scene between Disa and King Durin was another highlight. She brings the true strength into the relationships of these two men she loves who are hiding behind their false strength by speaking the truth to them both and calling them to reconciliation. If the writers can bring more of this, there is hope yet for this series.
I think the reason for the 3 coming first and probably still being greatest will be that Celebrimbor was Celenough, so to speak. Sauron comes promising to take him to the next level, but in fact, because Sauron is inherently corrupting, the more he tries to force his way into the project, the worse the results are.
I enjoyed the disa and lord durin talk. And sauron corrupting and getting his way with calebrebor was good. I laughed when wizard yells nori but not poppy when they blown away.
it's worth noting that in Season 1 "Alloyed", Halbrand held the mithril that formed the three Elven rings, thus possibly being able to pass on his bad juju
@@echuidorGandalf didn’t mention their names in the Hobbit movies because WB doesn’t have the rights to any material where their names are mentioned. Hell, even calling them “Blue Wizards” caused a few legal problems for them
My wife and I are really enjoying RoP. I know it's not cannon but does it have to be? Comic books have always wrestled with continuity. Cannon makes stories great but can also limit creativity and make them predictable. I'm happy to let RoP be it's own thing.
Nori says “he’s afraid he’d lose control again without a gand”. Tolkien derived the name Gandalf from Gandálfr, a dwarf in the Völuspá's Dvergatal, a list of dwarf-names. In Old Norse, the name means staff-elf. This is reflected in his name Tharkûn, which is "said to mean 'Staff-man”. The stranger is Gandalf
Tolkien derived the name from Old Norse Gandálfr which means staff-elf from Gand (staff) and álfr (elf). Dwarves also called him Tharkûn (staff man in Khuzdul). Other names... Mithrandir (Sindarin, grey wanderer), Grey Pilgrim, Incánus.
I think the “follow your nose” line from season 1 all but confirms it for me at least that he’s Gandalf. Unfortunately. It would have been cool to see insight into any other wizard
Some wonky things aside, these first 3 episodes have been so much more entertaining than season 1. The sets, the costumes, the acting, the dialogue.. it may not all be lore accurate but it's much better imo and I'm actually really looking forward to th rest of season 2
Saying season 2 is better than season 1 os a very low bar to set. I've been watching this with my wife as she's a huge lotr fan, I loved the movies, but am finding myself reaching for my phone to play games while this is on, I know I don't represent the world, but it's rare that I'm that bored with a show, I think the last thing that made me this uninterested was willow, which is a shame because I loved the movie as a child, and tried to watch the show with my daughter, she was probably more bored than I was.
@politicallyincorrect2564 how are you liking it? I did watch episode 3, but I think I may give up, I just can't get into this show, yo me it's jist not engaging or fun. But to each their own, I'm not telling others what to like.
@jimmysp4des229 I have plenty of time to kill so would watch everything. Honest opinion besides the orks and the men of the southlands all other are just not good. The elves look weak and Galabriel as a character is unbearable. Disa is another character that I despise ...singing to the rock for God's sake 😂. It is just an okay/average show to kill your time. It has nothing to do with LOTR.
Blaming Galadriel for this is, I think, not the way to consider how it all seems to unfold. If Sauron tricked her as the writers of this show suggest then she has an absolute personal reason to bring him down (and she eventually, with help, succeeds). Moreover, Celebrimbor is, himself, deceived by Sauron (Annatar) in this depiction and commits even greater acts (i.e. forging the rings and, to a lesser although not insignificant extent the Doors of Durin that prevent an untold number of people from seeking any refuge -- hahaha -- in Morea from the Watcher in the Water). I think Sauron is just doing evil to a very masterful extent here and it gives characters extra, personal reasons to end him.
@@78cunobelin So why didn't Galadriel tell Celebrimbor not to treat with Halbrand because he was Sauron? Shame? Humiliation? TRoP Galadriel is a very selfish character. She wants to do what she wants to do and tries to persuade or manipulate others to help her do those things.
That was awesome ? My friend, I will not be judging your flavors, but I can't help to think you've simply never watched a quality show's reveal(s). This is not an insult, however the revealing of Annatar was completely butchered in RoP. It is conspicuously FUBAR. The only quality part of the show is the dwarves' storyline.
@@Kalafinwë just cause they didnt make it the exact way you have thought of it since you read the books for the first time they did pretty decent job. blame the actual flaws and dont be an idiot
I don't think an early antagonism between Gandalf and Saruman would be too far fetched. There is the line in the Lord of the Rings in which Gandalf is speaking about Saruman and he says "His treachery runs deeper than you know", inferring that Gandalf knows about how Saruman thinks and was not necessarily surprised by his betrayal. This could be that back story. Who knows?
@@javiersoria3913 They could make it work. Saruman could genuinely believe that he might be able to get close to Sauron while still remaining free from corruption, and convince Gandalf that it's necessary to be able to keep tabs on the Dark Lords machinations, but ultimately failing to resist Sauron's influence.
I’m thinking Galadriel’s comment about the Unseen World is referring to her gaining the ability to see into it and later her ability to affect it. As an Elf from Valinor, she does exist within the unseen world as a bright spiritual being, but she doesn’t have the ability to see into it or affect it until she wears her ring and it enhances her abilities like it did with her foresight. Some Maiar walked unseen among the Elves of Valinor, so this trait doesn’t seem to be innately had by the Elves that do exist in the Unseen. When she makes her comment, she could be referring to something that happened off-camera, or that the vision of Celebrimbor was more than just foresight. Just my thoughts based on the info about the Unseen from Tolkien Gateway.
Haladriel is because in the text Galadriel says she and Sauron perceive each others' minds, so they're running with that, and also explaining why she's tempted by the One Ring.
9:09 Don't want to be that guy...but Feanor was Celebrimbor's grandfather. His father was Curufin, Feanor's favourite son. But, you already know this. Because you're Nerd of the Rings. And you've made an excellent video about it.
Fun and curious fact: Tolkien died in 1973, in reverse: 3791 (3 for the Elves, seven for the Dwarves, 9 for men, 1 for the Dark Lord, in his dark throne)
Annatar reveal was wild and I think they did explain the 3 ring creation in season 1 well enough - basically Halbrand did have his hand on it enough to have a questionable effect, hence Gil-Galad and Galadriel feeling effects already. So his influence is there.
@brendantams5283 oh ok thanks! So is it safe to assume that nobody else except maybe the other gods know that he is both? When calebrimbor or however that's spelled recognized his name as the god of gifts, it gave the impression that Annatar is someone who is known to and beloved by the people of middle earth.
Why did Halbrand come back to Eregion knowing that his true identity was revealed to Galadriel and possibly all the Elves? Why wasn't Halbrand removed from Eregion by the guards when Celebrimbor initially declined inviting him in? Why does Celebrimbor so easily change his mind after being warned that Halbrand is not to be trusted? Seems like a lot of conveniences to me.
My lore interpretation of the Unseen World is that wearers are able to see and interact with the Song of the Ainur and modify it in slight ways. This is the power Morgoth originally sought and it is also the power Sauron seeks (albeit for different reasons). However because he is weaker, he needs the rings to better channel the song in the same way the Istari need their staffs. It's also why the rings offer glimpses of possible futures. I think the title sequence is a reference to this too. The sound is visualized by the grain, but the dark band in season 1 and the red sand in season two move of their own accord as a reference to Morgoth and Sauron respectively.
The whole bit about the dwarves - masters of stone work - not being able to move some rubble was hard to believe. Heck, even modern men and women with all the safety precautions we have to take today could clear it in a week or two if dire like this is.
i think the implication is that the darkness the dwarves are not yet aware of is interrupting their efforts and causing issues, and thus increasing the need for the Rings.
The Annatar reveal was epic. I didn't like the Celebrimbor-Halbrand relationship in Season 1, but this episode helped recover it nicely. It avoided the problem of Celebrimbor being deceived twice and instead made it one long con game by Sauron.
I think the two wizard are the Blue wizards. One went to the dark side and the other one has the potential to go to the good side. Since in the books it’s mentioned that they existed and few people knew about them, and also that they kind of were mysterious, it’s a great way to make a story that is creative, because the books didn’t explore them that much.
As much as I like your blue wizard idea, the stranger is definitely Gandalf. 1. The staff in his vision is Gandalf's staff, along with other hints I think this settles it (you say in the video that he finds the staff from his dream, this is incorrect. It's not the one, which is why it disintegrates. Watch the dream staff more carefully). 2. They're going to end the show by setting up the situation we see in the LOTR. This just makes sense as a prequel. The harfoots will wander westward, gondor will be built, the ring will be lost, and finally cirdan will give his ring to gandalf. This is the whole reason the stranger (gandalf) is in the show. To have him recieve the ring from cirdan.
I also feel like now that The Stranger is way more chatty, he's really being written like Gandalf. His charisma is really building now that he can speak full sentences and it really does sound more and more like a young Gandalf. The only alternative to this, if they go to the Blue Wizard route, would be making Wizards, at least good wizards, this kind of quirky charismatic beings. I'm way more of just waiting and seeing but I do think from the showrunners' perspective, it also just makes a lot more sense to be Gandalf (Presenting this without comment/opinion, just in terms of putting myself in their shoes with trying to unravel and build a reveal with this mystery). "Who" this Stranger is, is still a big question for viewers and the show is actively playing with that identity. I get from the perspective of purists that the Blue Wizard identity would be the preferable outcome but from a general audience perspective, I don't understand how they would be able to build up either a reveal, or mystery of this character and then the showrunners basically being like "It's a blue wizard!". The vast majority of people would be like "Who??". I think it would be a great way to build out some lesser known lore and way more interesting but I just think this mystery behind this character is being written as eventually becoming more and more clear. And you can't slow drip a Blue Wizard (from the perspective of the show writers) to a general audience in my opinion and have the same impact. It might please a subset of people but I genuinely don't think it would land in a general audience way. I guess in theory, the least egregious would be to make the Stranger Gandalf and the Dark Wizard, a bad Blue Wizard. But that's only the least egregious compared to making the Dark Wizard Saruman, which would really be bad in my opinion.
Very nice theory , I might also add the relationship and love than Gandalf has towards hobbits is probably caused by his love for nori…… But I also hope that the other wizard isn’t Saruman , it shouldn’t be
The Harfoots referred to the staff as 'gand' and Gandalf literally means 'wand-elf'. What also might be a giveaway is a particular shot from one of the trailers. We see Bombadil putting on his head which suspiciously looks like Gandalf's in the movies. The prominence of the hat in this scene could mean we might see Bombadil giving the Stranger his head later in the show, further pushing him into the Gandalf direction
Some of the dialogue that makes me think the Stranger is Gandalf was when Poppy was asking why he doesn't just magic up some water and Nori says that he can't because he doesn't want to lose control because he doesn't have his "gand". Gand being a Norse word for staff or wand and a character from Norse mythology is called Gandalf, who Tolkien named the wizard after.
Not necessarily*. gand just means "staff" or "wand". While the name itself does derive from Norse mythology, Tolkien slotted it into his invented languages, per One Wiki to Rule Them All: "Within Tolkien's legendarium, "Gandalf" is a mysterious name of the meaning "Wand-Elf" (alternatively cane/staff) in old northern Mannish. Most denizens of Middle-earth incorrectly assumed Gandalf was a Man (human), although he was really a Maia spirit (equivalent to an angel)." That the Harfoots might use an old northern mannish word would make sense. * I'm still hoping for blue wizards, but using the word makes it sound like a hint. Or a misdirect/red herring. A boy can dream....
I see your point about the line "Sharer of Gifts" being redundant. But it's an interesting little spin on the fact that he's even twisting the language and to show His 'generosity'. Brimby correcting Sauron is him actually perhaps saying it to himself, how he's going to be Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, once the rings are made. You really see how Sauron digs into the elves' pride (Galadriel, Brimby etc.). It's what the One Ring does so well in the end...the possessive greed to be the ONE who has ALL POWER. You just see here how Celebrimbor really wants to step out of the shadow of his forefathers and create something for which he will be remembered for.
19:40 seems like the sharer of gifts line was so they could use it in a trailer without spoiling that they got the rights to Annatar and Lord of Gifts titles
My thoughts too. Or perhaps they didn't have the rights at the time of making the trailer and then added that scene, but had to keep the scene from the trailer so it became both versions at the same time lol
One thing I think the Annatar reveal fixed was that, from Celebrimbor's perspective, Annatar *was* the one who taught him how to make the 3 rings, since Annatar and Halbrand are the same guy. If they'd had Sauron sneak back in as Annatar without first showing back up as Halbrand, it would've been a canon problem.
The problem is that Celebrimbor's greatest accomplishment was the crafting of the Three. He's already done that before crafting the other 16 (not counting the One Ring) Rings of Power.
I don't think the Dark wizard is Saruman, but the Stranger is definitely Gandalf. Nori and Poppy talk about how the Stranger is looking for a "gand" or staff, and I don't need to tell you that Gandalf's name means "staff elf." I think it would be better if he were a blue wizard, but like you said, they are opting for the lazy way.
Epidode 2 id give 8/10 i love the dedicated time for each story development. Realizing of course a volcano eruption would damage caves, and the fallout of Dwarves seems to have weight.
I absolutely LOVED Annatar's introduction, it was perfect in my opinion!!! I'm genuinely falling in love with this show, which is surprising cause season 1 didn't impress me so much, but season 2 touched my heart, I'm so happy!!!
I gotta believe you got to see these episodes before us by at least a day. Even if your team is F1 racing team level, you can't release content this rich so quick
First, I'm glad I decided to re-watch season 1 for that is how I discovered your channel. I'm no hardcore Tolkien book lore aficionado, yet I really appreciate your explanations of similarities and differences between book lore, and that presented here in the show. Once finished with my current series, I may have to start with Tolkien. As for this season, I feel they are slightly rushing things. That awesome shot showing us how the dwarves use mirrors to bring sunlight to the depths of Khazad-dûm, was short-lived. They went through the trouble of showing us, only to block it a couple minutes later. We should have got that shot in season 1; we would have all this time to consider and further appreciate their ingenuity.
@@EnerdhilYeah, I love how Sauron comes back to Eregion like he isn't going to get captured on the spot, for all he knows Galadriel would have told everyone on the room ssap. But no, I supose he expected her not to do so on the basis of knowing her to be that caliber of an idiot, wich honestly isn't much better.
@@hectorhernandezaleman3836 I think the argument they will have is something like: Galadriel wanted the Three Elven Rings to be made and maybe thought Celebrimbor would either not make them or destroy them if he had made them. She likely coveted one of them. This RoP Galadriel is sooo far from lore-accurate that she disgusts me every time I see or hear her. They are trying to redeem her character in Season 2 but the only difference after Two Episodes is that she has not drawn her sword to fight.🙄
Unfortunately, I'm sure that the Stranger is Gandalf and I'm reasonably sure Ciaran is Saruman. Maybe the reader thought he turned evil in late 3rd age, but secretly he was always evil. It's in the books that he spent time on the East. Having them be 2 Blue Wizs would be even more confusing for the casual viewer. Not everyone is as nerd as we are. They are linking the series with LOTR as much as possible (moon runes, ents, balrog, etc...).
I think the whole shipping of Galadriel and Halbrand is completely fan made. I don't think it's necessarily googly eyed looks. Looks of affection or admiration don't have to be romantic. The thing about Sauron making Galadriel his queen wouldn't necessarily be out of love but usefulness. Remember Sauron is a master manipulator. And I've seen people talking about how Sauron in this show doesn't know if he's 100% evil. He's definitely evil, he just mask it as a means of deception. In every compassionate scene he has you can see the maniacal glint in his eyes.
I really love the cymatics opening sequence. Its a reminder that everything we see is the will of eru manifested through the Music of the Ainur. Also how the dwarves are singing to the mountain
@@KCobra396 Timescales are compressed for TV by a huge factor. Otherwise they'd have to recast the humans twice an episode and the dwarves once a week!
I've seen some folks speculating that the Dark Wizard could be Khamul, which works for me. We should start meeting future Nazgul if we haven't already. That said, the stanger and the wizard both being the Blue Wizards works for me, too!
Legit, the Dwarven storyline (including the previous season) is almost entirely the reason why I still keep going with this series... absolute great writing and acting.
@@prodigalfraudaddy-es1gl oooh look an edge lord. The Dwarves are widely considered the best part of the series, even by many who hate the show. This isn’t an absurd take, OP even references it being almost the only reason they still watch. They’re not blindly praising the show. I’d say don’t be an idiot, but you use, “u”, so it’s too late for that
@@user-jt1js5mr3fBeing the best part of Rop isn't a highbar, and this far the quality with the Dwarfs has taken a nosedive in S2, as Durin and Durin Jr. have turned into children for the sake of a conflict that they let open last season that wasn't even about that. Durin father desinherited Durin Jr. on the basis of tresaon, that isn't a family feud about pride that only needs them to talk to eachother like S2 seems to believe.
Something to note on the is the Stranger Gandalf situation- Some time after their conversation about names and how he will basically know what his name is when he hears it, Nori and Poppy talk about the Stranger now missing his staff and how they can find a new one because there are sticks all over the place, but Nori refers to it as a "Gand". As in a reference to "Gand" or "Wand", and Gandalf's namesake from old northern mannish, "wand-elf" or "elf of the staff/cane" since that's how he got that name in Eriador. This is 1000% either setting up a terrible cheesy moment where Nori suggests the name "Gandalf" and the Stranger goes "yup, that's it that's me", or it's setting up a funny subversive moment where she suggests "Gandalf" and he goes "..... naaaah that's not right" confirming blue wizard status.
I think it’s intended to show the rings power he’s wearing. Suddenly days after wearing it he looks younger. Obviously through choice, but it gives that view
@@ZaimGamePlay I didn’t say it had the power to remove beards 😂 I said the writers are using it as imagery to convey that the ring has made him look more youthful
But then again, when Gandalf is speaking of his names in LOTR, he doesn't have the name in the East and says 'to the East I do not go', and that is what the Stranger literally does - seeks Rhun.
I love your Blue Wizards theory and it would be kind of fun to bait and switch us like that! Because they are hinting at it being Gandalf so hard, the most heavy hint I've seen so far is when hes having the dream of the staff, it morphs inbetween the hockey stick staff and what looks like Gandalfs staff from the movies. I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention it in the video, its there for a few frames. Maybe you're saving that for another video, IDK. Loving your videos, and I'm definitely a little less annoyed at the show in this 2nd season.
I mentioned it in the watch party, but when Nori and Poppy discuss The Stanger using his powers, Nori says that he needs a "gand." I'm convinced that he's Gandalf. If it's true, it's a disappointment, but I get the name recognition for those who don't know deep lore. I also hope they don't make dark wizard Saruman.
Yeah definitely. You don't pick 'gand' instead of staff without meaning to hint to the stranger is Gandalf. At this point if he isn't Gandalf we've all been gaslit. While I was hoping for blue wizards, I could live with having Gandalf though, as long as the dark wizard isn't Saruman cause that would just be stupid.
I don't agree about the name recognition for those who don't know the deep lore, when lotr came out 20 years ago I bet the majority of people who went to see it had never read the lotr books and had no clue who the characters were, myself included. But they made great movies with great characters that people fell in love with and were interested to learn more about.
@@jonirojonironin5353I‘m desperately hoping for that too. Or rather the stranger converts the fallen blue wizard back to light. That could be an amazing story line, if done right.
Godammit, Cirdan's look in episode 1 was the most book accurate thing in the series so far and they immediately have him shave off his iconic beard? 🤦🏻♂️
Right?! I almost feel like they did it on purpose just to tick off lore-abiding fans. "We're finally giving you Círdan, a fan favorite, and we're portraying him mostly how he is described and wanted by the fans, especially the beard, and......just kidding." Really a terrible decision.
While Nori and Poppy talk with The Stranger about him using his powers, Nori uses the words "...he cannot without his GAND" [meaning: his staff] Tolkien used this nordic word with creating the name for Gandalf. It's an obvious language hint for the fact that he will probably be revealed as Gandalf, but I also think that Allatar or Pallando would be much more cool and aligned with actual lore.
@@scottporter4524 fan fic writers would have either stuck better to the source material or abandoned it completely in favor of a coffee shop. And they wouldn’t have wasted a billion dollars.
Great video! I will say you are so right about the writing. All Moria scenes were the best and Disa is such a stand out character for this episode! When Disa sang to the mountain and the mountain assumingly rejected her call. I truly got choked up. Her last note and action was truly a "Help us" moment, that came crashing down. I had to pause the tv that scene was so great. I struggle, with the power of Mordor being able to mess with the mountain, I assume that the Balrog is causing trouble down below. Durin the Elder leans on the statment that the Stone Singers have been great at their job for 900 years and all of sudden, they aren't. It might be a stretch, but I think when the Stone Singers and even Disa, being the best out of all of 'em (Assuming), sings to the mountain, the balrog hears it which causes a reaction to wreck havoc. (Theory) I hope not.. but Disa really seems to be connected to Khazad-Dum more than Durin The Elder & The Younger. I would hate to see it. I think the true dowfall of the great dwarven city will be strongly connected to the death of the great dwarven woman, Disa.
But doesn't gand just mean staff? iirc, Gandalf means something like "staff elf", a mannish word for a being Men didn't really understand. That said, I'm legit concerned that the show will go the lazy route & these two will indeed be Gandalf & Saruman. They'd then have to ret-con so the wizards wouldn't remember each other, like wiping C-3PO's memory in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They should have more faith in their audience, especially considering that most of us watching are more than just casual fans (i.e., we're readers, not just Jackson movie watchers), & would have no trouble with wizards who WEREN'T Gandalf or Saruman (or Radagast). I really hope I'm wrong, & I'm rooting for the show to get this right, but....
![The History of Sauron [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8IqAN1Of70k/mqdefault.jpg)
What score (1-10) would you give this ep? What do you think of the Dark Wizard and Annatar?
i'd give it a seven...interesting, but confused as to whether it's Gandalf or blue wizard.
Like the first video, probably a 7.5/10. I definitely think this season will be stronger than the first one
7.9, I love everything LOTR related, and the picture of the show is amazing, just something is missing to give it an honest 8
Yes I think vickers is a very good actor and portrays annatar well 9
I think the Stranger is a blue wizard. The staff was placed by a well when he was in need of water. We equate water to the colour blue.
Fun fact from a classically trained music teacher. When Disa and the two other dwarf women are singing, their music begins in unison and harmony. Towards the end, a fourth voice enters that creates dissonance, or discord, causing the harmonic structure of the music to fail…along with their efforts. Wonder who was the fourth voice “sowing discord” into the music? Good job by the composer.
@@jamesmyers931 To me it seemed as if it was Disa layering herself on top, trying too hard or pushing herself because the mountain wasn't responding or whatever the problem was.
I like the composer bringing in what I assume is a Bulgarian women's chorus (not this scene, but throughout the episode). Actually the motif is very similar to the opening song of that famous Mystère des Voix Bulgares album, I think it was something like "kalva sviri"?
Like Morgoth did in the beginning of creation. Hmmmm 🤔
as i told my brother my BIGGEST complaint wiht s1 was the music, it was marvel music, i told my brother that if this season doesnt even try to hit the elven/mordor vibe i wont even bother because even him as a non "super fan" noticed it. but im loving the music so far it matters a lot with LOTR more than any other fantasy universe
What an amaizing detail.
Especially given that this also how the world of Arda was created and than it was Morgoth that was creating the dissonance in the song.
Cirdan feeling good with his new ring. Shaving his beard, going to the gym, inventing yacht-rock with his new dad-band.
LOL!!!!!!!!!
So does Elrond eventually get the ring from Cirdan
No cirdan gives it to gandalf once he comes to middle earth@@IHateHoldo
@mrmootjepiratemo4003 Oh okay thanks I'm not really familiar with the lore. It's kind of a shame really because Cirdan seems to be a good mentor to Elrond, and giving him the ring might be a way of paying off his legacy or wisdom to him.
@@IHateHoldo Elrond inherits his from Gil-Galad.
I laughed so hard at the guess who's back, back again part
I'm so glad someone got that reference. It's a bit older nowadays!
She sure does look like Eminem. A very Feminem Eminem
@@NerdoftheRings Will the real slim shady please stand up!?
Tell a friend
omg sammmeee! 😂
I remember thinking the same about the dialogue of "A sharer of gifts. Annatar." immediately followed by "Annatar, Lord of Gifts" but upon rewatch, Celebrimbor actually puts an emphasis/italics on the "Lord," almost as a clarification of the Quenya name. Yet another small little Sauron manipulation that I think works beautifully, with him pretending to show humiility knowing Celebrimbor will know the true meaning of the name.
Nice!
Hmmm nice catch! I thought it was a jedi mind trick moment lol
Awesome catch!
my thought exactly
Good catch
I'm loving how they're portraying Annatar and his entrance was amazing. I'm also glad that they kept Charlie Vickers for the part instead of recasting for "Annatar".
Completely agree. Charlie Vickers is the only highlight of the show for me.
Sauron and Elrond are the only characters I feel haven’t been tarnished.
I have a more favorable opinion of the show than you (I like it overall) but I do agree that Sauron and Elrond are the best-portrayed characters
Sauron is my fav character, and Cirdan after
I know you were joking, but I literally went 'ahh mannnn' when that first age wine smashed.
lol same
That hurt so bad. A bigger death than…whoever that mother was in the first season
Same. RIP good First Age wine.
I actually hoped Sauron would use magic to fix the spill 😂
@@user-jt1js5mr3fi actually messed with bronwyn so much but i’m glad they killed her off it made sense with all the different plot highways going on lol
Two breakdowns after a four-hour watch party in one night! This Matt is no man! He is Sauron! 😭
Still have one more coming quite soon! :)
@@NerdoftheRings OMG! I can't wait! 😍
He was given screeners so had these pre-recorded.
The power of money 😂
@@JurassicTheoryhe's fr slogging through it like Sauron in the prelude of episode 1 😂😂
Legend has it, the bigger the brows the more powerful the Wizard
Disa and the Disanettes sent me 😂
making him gandalf and then dark wizard saruman would be the biggest blunder in the history of television
What if it's Gandalf and a Blue Wizard? The wizard name mystery box is as tiresome as it was in s1 and in a way if it's not Gandalf it's just as bad because of all the unsubtle hints that it is indeed him.
considering how bad season 1 was, it is almost certainly how it will go
They're already past that point, its already the biggest blunder in television. When I watch the episodes now I look at it as a comedy, it helps with the pain to get through! :)
We see that the Dark Wizard is working with Eminem. We know from S1 that Eminem worships Sauron. It doesn't make sense for the Dark Wizard to be an Istari since they fight Sauron's influence. Unless they are going all in with this "one of the blue wizards may have been corrupted" theory?
@@liveac3694 I think that is the theory yeah, a bad blue wizard. And stranger will still be Gandalf
I am not sure if you missed this but Nori, when talking about the Stranger looking for a staff, says something like "He is looking for a gand". That conversation came right after they had been trying to pick a name for the Stranger. I have a feeling gand is going to be combined with something like elf to form Gandalf but tbh I really hope the Blue Wizard thing is right.
Yo your guess was almost right. The stoors called him Grand -elf, since they've never seen an elf before and thought the istar was an elf. So yeah Grand-elf became Gandalf :)
Sauron saying yes and Celebrimbor filling everything else with whatever he wants that yes to mean is manipulation at the highest level.
Yeah that was honestly really good. It shows that his deception is to just say yes to what others want. He doesn't need to tell lies, just tell the right people the right things, or satiate their fears.
I got the feeling that Sauron didn't mean to say Annatar. He meant to say the elvish for "Sharer of Gifts", but his arrogance got the better of him. When Celebrimbor responds "Annatar...Lord of Gifts" to me Sauron looks kind of surprised, like he didn't realize he had said that. It makes sense that Sauron of all beings would subconsciously switch the two words.
Your probably overthinking it
@@DJVOutdoors What a buzz kill.
Interesting take.😁👍
@@DJVOutdoors yea....these scripts and scenes are not pored-over, at all. I heard it is all improv after they just group-read the Silmarillion...😐
@@78cunobelinthey don’t even have the rights to the Silmarillion, numpty. They’re working off footnotes and appendices of Tolkien’s.
Part of the reason we have the weird timeline issues we have is they specifically don’t have the rights to that story.
Could the Dark Wizard be a huge misdirect? "Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old." Perhaps this sorcerer becomes one of the Nazgul?
Yeah that would be nice nod to the nazgul. We know some were sorcerers
oooo didnt think of that. ....
Good one!. I've been assuming blue wizard. Could be the future #2 nazgul.
@@stephenlandale631Is he Kamull the Easterling ? Were those the Avari surrounding him?
Hmmm--you may be on to something. Calling the character a sorcerer in the credits might have been too on the nose. How about this for an addendum to your theory: The Stranger is a blue wizard, & he'll meet the OTHER blue wizard along the way, somewhere in Rhûn or maybe further south. I don't recall the dialog specifically, but the way the "dark wizard" & the mask dude talked about an istar might leave room for the implication that they know of more than one (even though I'm pretty sure they never said istari plural).
shady's back alone earned a like, I literally yelled "Feminem is back!" when she came back
It’s also possible that the dark wizard is not an Istar but a human sorcerer who goes on to become the Witch King of Angmar.
maybe not the WItch King, but this is what I was thinking as well. I was thinking hes a human sorcerer dbbling in dark amgic and is eventually gonna get schooled by an actual Wizard; (and a comment elsewhere on this video opened me up to the idea they could become a Nazgul later)
The Witch King came from Númenor.
Watched all three episodes and I'm very impressed with the changes they made from Season 1. I thought the dialogue and pacing, although they still had some issues, were much improved. Personally I really enjoyed watching these episodes and I can't wait for ep. 4 next week.
Me too honestly
It was…good. I was very pleasantly surprised by these episodes. They weren’t perfect, but they were fun to watch
i liked them as well, but the slow pacing of season one didn't bother me at all. I care about the characters in season two in large part because of the slower character/friendship development of season one. And the portrayals of places/cultures was stunning, especially Numenor and Moria. Plenty to take in and appreciate before it's all destroyed.
I agree. The definitely put some more effort into this season
The scene with Círdan 16:18 left me questioning: why is he shaving? Is this lore-related or did they do it just to disappoint us?
I think it's implying a youngening effect of the ring - of you look closely, he also has less wrinkles and his hair is more of a blonde colour. Makes sense in a way, I guess
I was confused I thought it was a flashback at first lol
Hey there NOTR it is a relief to see you look at Rings of Power without the overly heavy critical eye of so many out there. Way i see it is quite simple; despite all its Lore shortfalls and limited access to source material we have two options; 1. Enjoy it on its own terms and get the most out of it and 2. Persist in hating it and not seeing any good at all (throw out baby and bathwater). I prefer Option 1 and am stoked to see you lean in that direction too. Oh and by the way, deep bow to your Lore proficiency. The 'education' vids on all sorts of LOTR themes are excellent. Good on you man!
I loved the Annatar shape of Sauron. He looks so gorgeous in his new form. Also Dweller and Dark Wizard looks so cool.
His entrance was so grand, lol. I guess he must have thought it was the best way to gain Celebrimbor to his side
@@normis6620 “I have walked through the dust and the deserts of far-away lands, in search of an artist possessing the craft to save all Middle-earth. A storm is coming Celebrimbor. I can bring you the knowledge none other possesses. I can unlock your grandest abilities. And our work is complete, never again will the world overlook you as the mere scion of Feanor but forevermore revere you… The Lord of the Rings.”
My gorgeous Lord Annatar was so divine on that scene 😌
I'm loving every Sauron and Celebrimbor scene
The Halbrand route to Annatar may have been needed. Instead of Celebrimbor simply accepting a Lord Of Gifts who shows up claiming to be a Valar, Sauron gains his trust first by helping him in a mortal guise. Celebrimbor is receptive to the big reveal AFTER being helped to work a needed miracle.
Agreed entirely! Pleasantly surprised with how they handled that.
nice perspective!
Nice episode, I liked the Rhun part more than I expected. Personally, I don't mind the whole Haladriel thing, but to each its own. Obviously the dwarves are always a highlight
I WAS on 'Team Blue Wizard', mostly because the show went hard on two mystery boxes - Halbrand and The Stranger. Both were narrowed down to two things almost immediately. Sauron and Gandalf were the obvious answers, but it just seemed hard for me to believe that they would work so hard on the mystery boxes and base their entire show around them, and then have them BOTH be the most obvious answer.
As someone who has seen the full 2nd season at this point, I now know not to give these folks so much credit in the future, which is why I now suspect the Dark Wizard will be Saruman. Because it's obvious and a big name. These people don't have the extra gear it would take to not do the obvious thing.
The Annatar reveal was excellent
Indeed. It was grandiose and classy.
One wig to rule them all.
Looked like a cheap tv movie about Jesus.
@@stevenv2190 I like how all the wig joke nerds were wrong about it all the time.
was as epic to be sure. enjoyed the lucifer parallels
One thing I really like about this show is how it incorporates music and singing into the story. Appropriately the score is also fantastic. I loved Bear McCreary’s work on Battlestar Galactica and I think he outdoes himself again here.
This episode finally brought some writing and emotional gravitas worthy of association with Tolkien. The scene between Cirdan and Elrond was excellent. "Judge the work. And leave judgment concerning those who wrought it to the Judge who sees all things." Beautiful.
The confrontational scenes between Elrond and Galadriel are hitting their mark, too. Elrond's rebuke is strong but rooted in concern. Galadriel is beginning to acknowledge her hubris and grow.
The scene between Disa and King Durin was another highlight. She brings the true strength into the relationships of these two men she loves who are hiding behind their false strength by speaking the truth to them both and calling them to reconciliation.
If the writers can bring more of this, there is hope yet for this series.
The shot of the entrance to Khazad-dûm is the Gryphon ride into Ironforge in WoW. Got to keep the sponsors happy!
That brought back some memories man 😂
rhe digital art team deserve the true praise in the show
I love Elrond's strength of will and commitment to his own purpose and morals this season. He feels like a rock. Someone you can really rely on.
I think the reason for the 3 coming first and probably still being greatest will be that Celebrimbor was Celenough, so to speak. Sauron comes promising to take him to the next level, but in fact, because Sauron is inherently corrupting, the more he tries to force his way into the project, the worse the results are.
Love this theory. I also think that producers/execs probably wouldn't allow a show called Rings of Power to not have any rings in the first season.
I enjoyed the disa and lord durin talk. And sauron corrupting and getting his way with calebrebor was good. I laughed when wizard yells nori but not poppy when they blown away.
Yeah I noticed that too! About him not a saying “Poppy” as well 😅
Anatar redundancy is not that bad. Think that Sauron is also improvising as he sees the reactions of Celebimbor
it's worth noting that in Season 1 "Alloyed", Halbrand held the mithril that formed the three Elven rings, thus possibly being able to pass on his bad juju
I wondered that as well, they clearly showed he could have influence over those rings...
The Name thing with the stranger could just be a confirmation for the blue wizard theory... because not even Gandalf remembers their names.
Gandalf not remembering the Blues' names is a Hobbit movie invention, and probably done so as to not start a fandom war
@@echuidorGandalf didn’t mention their names in the Hobbit movies because WB doesn’t have the rights to any material where their names are mentioned. Hell, even calling them “Blue Wizards” caused a few legal problems for them
@@Video456325 Yeah there's that as well
@@echuidor I know. But this show is the kind of show, that references that sort of thing.
@@Video456325 Aren't their names mentioned in The Hobbit? IIRC Gandalf does say Allatar and Pallando
'Disa and the Disettes" - that was hilarious :P
“Shady’s back” had me laughing and my wife woke up scared shitless!
My wife and I are really enjoying RoP. I know it's not cannon but does it have to be? Comic books have always wrestled with continuity. Cannon makes stories great but can also limit creativity and make them predictable. I'm happy to let RoP be it's own thing.
Nori says “he’s afraid he’d lose control again without a gand”. Tolkien derived the name Gandalf from Gandálfr, a dwarf in the Völuspá's Dvergatal, a list of dwarf-names. In Old Norse, the name means staff-elf. This is reflected in his name Tharkûn, which is "said to mean 'Staff-man”.
The stranger is Gandalf
Nori also says "he's afraid he'd lose control again without a gand". Which maybe means this is probably Gandalf
The gand could be his staff which he needs to channel and control his powers.
I thought I'd check the comments to see if anyone else heard this glad I'm not the only one.
Gand I thought = staff/wand
Gandalf = wand elf
Tolkien derived the name from Old Norse Gandálfr which means staff-elf from Gand (staff) and álfr (elf). Dwarves also called him Tharkûn (staff man in Khuzdul). Other names... Mithrandir (Sindarin, grey wanderer), Grey Pilgrim, Incánus.
I think the “follow your nose” line from season 1 all but confirms it for me at least that he’s Gandalf. Unfortunately. It would have been cool to see insight into any other wizard
Some wonky things aside, these first 3 episodes have been so much more entertaining than season 1. The sets, the costumes, the acting, the dialogue.. it may not all be lore accurate but it's much better imo and I'm actually really looking forward to th rest of season 2
Saying season 2 is better than season 1 os a very low bar to set.
I've been watching this with my wife as she's a huge lotr fan, I loved the movies, but am finding myself reaching for my phone to play games while this is on, I know I don't represent the world, but it's rare that I'm that bored with a show, I think the last thing that made me this uninterested was willow, which is a shame because I loved the movie as a child, and tried to watch the show with my daughter, she was probably more bored than I was.
@@jimmysp4des229I am literally reading your comment while watching the episode 😂
@politicallyincorrect2564 how are you liking it?
I did watch episode 3, but I think I may give up, I just can't get into this show, yo me it's jist not engaging or fun.
But to each their own, I'm not telling others what to like.
@jimmysp4des229 I have plenty of time to kill so would watch everything. Honest opinion besides the orks and the men of the southlands all other are just not good. The elves look weak and Galabriel as a character is unbearable. Disa is another character that I despise ...singing to the rock for God's sake 😂. It is just an okay/average show to kill your time. It has nothing to do with LOTR.
Oh yeahh that quality dialogue where they feel the need to throw in nonsensical metaphors in every conversation!
“The hobbits fly away, never to be seen again” 🤣🤣🤣 Great breakdown as always, tfs
So Galadriel sowed the seeds of Celebrimbor's demise, literally and figuratively... 🤔
*facepalm*
It's nice to know that Galadriel can wreck Arda without drawing her sword.😔
Why didn't she just tellthem both when she had the chance instead of a clueless stare
Blaming Galadriel for this is, I think, not the way to consider how it all seems to unfold. If Sauron tricked her as the writers of this show suggest then she has an absolute personal reason to bring him down (and she eventually, with help, succeeds). Moreover, Celebrimbor is, himself, deceived by Sauron (Annatar) in this depiction and commits even greater acts (i.e. forging the rings and, to a lesser although not insignificant extent the Doors of Durin that prevent an untold number of people from seeking any refuge -- hahaha -- in Morea from the Watcher in the Water). I think Sauron is just doing evil to a very masterful extent here and it gives characters extra, personal reasons to end him.
@@78cunobelin
So why didn't Galadriel tell Celebrimbor not to treat with Halbrand because he was Sauron? Shame? Humiliation? TRoP Galadriel is a very selfish character. She wants to do what she wants to do and tries to persuade or manipulate others to help her do those things.
That giant Troll doesn't seem to like Sauron very much. 😂
Annatar's reveal was awesome and I can't wait to see him in action.
That was awesome ? My friend, I will not be judging your flavors, but I can't help to think you've simply never watched a quality show's reveal(s).
This is not an insult, however the revealing of Annatar was completely butchered in RoP. It is conspicuously FUBAR.
The only quality part of the show is the dwarves' storyline.
@@Kalafinwë has the thought occurred to you that people have different opinions on what they enjoy
@@Kalafinwë i enjoyed a lot, try to enjoy something in your life
@@Kalafinwëwas absolutely great. It is your taste that we need overlook as it is, let say, lacking...
@@Kalafinwë just cause they didnt make it the exact way you have thought of it since you read the books for the first time they did pretty decent job. blame the actual flaws and dont be an idiot
I don't think an early antagonism between Gandalf and Saruman would be too far fetched. There is the line in the Lord of the Rings in which Gandalf is speaking about Saruman and he says "His treachery runs deeper than you know", inferring that Gandalf knows about how Saruman thinks and was not necessarily surprised by his betrayal. This could be that back story. Who knows?
So he then spends the next millennia working with and under Saruman... Makes sense.
@@javiersoria3913 They could make it work. Saruman could genuinely believe that he might be able to get close to Sauron while still remaining free from corruption, and convince Gandalf that it's necessary to be able to keep tabs on the Dark Lords machinations, but ultimately failing to resist Sauron's influence.
I’m thinking Galadriel’s comment about the Unseen World is referring to her gaining the ability to see into it and later her ability to affect it. As an Elf from Valinor, she does exist within the unseen world as a bright spiritual being, but she doesn’t have the ability to see into it or affect it until she wears her ring and it enhances her abilities like it did with her foresight. Some Maiar walked unseen among the Elves of Valinor, so this trait doesn’t seem to be innately had by the Elves that do exist in the Unseen. When she makes her comment, she could be referring to something that happened off-camera, or that the vision of Celebrimbor was more than just foresight.
Just my thoughts based on the info about the Unseen from Tolkien Gateway.
Haladriel is because in the text Galadriel says she and Sauron perceive each others' minds, so they're running with that, and also explaining why she's tempted by the One Ring.
I prefer the blue wizard idea you present too, it's like they decided to go with both the OG telling, and Tolkien's later change as you say.
9:09 Don't want to be that guy...but Feanor was Celebrimbor's grandfather. His father was Curufin, Feanor's favourite son.
But, you already know this. Because you're Nerd of the Rings.
And you've made an excellent video about it.
Fun and curious fact: Tolkien died in 1973, in reverse: 3791 (3 for the Elves, seven for the Dwarves, 9 for men, 1 for the Dark Lord, in his dark throne)
Annatar reveal was wild and I think they did explain the 3 ring creation in season 1 well enough - basically Halbrand did have his hand on it enough to have a questionable effect, hence Gil-Galad and Galadriel feeling effects already. So his influence is there.
Yeah, I really don't mind the change in order
You mean where the master smith Celebrimbor learning what alloying was? Yeah that was super sick
So is this guy Annatar or Sauron? This is so confusing lol
@@MC-zr7hlSauron is annatar. He is able to change his form to deceive others. His fair form is named annatar
@brendantams5283 oh ok thanks! So is it safe to assume that nobody else except maybe the other gods know that he is both? When calebrimbor or however that's spelled recognized his name as the god of gifts, it gave the impression that Annatar is someone who is known to and beloved by the people of middle earth.
The Annatar reveal scene was CHILLING. Watching Sauron just twist everything so effortlessly. I'm loving S2 so far.
Why did Halbrand come back to Eregion knowing that his true identity was revealed to Galadriel and possibly all the Elves? Why wasn't Halbrand removed from Eregion by the guards when Celebrimbor initially declined inviting him in? Why does Celebrimbor so easily change his mind after being warned that Halbrand is not to be trusted? Seems like a lot of conveniences to me.
My lore interpretation of the Unseen World is that wearers are able to see and interact with the Song of the Ainur and modify it in slight ways. This is the power Morgoth originally sought and it is also the power Sauron seeks (albeit for different reasons). However because he is weaker, he needs the rings to better channel the song in the same way the Istari need their staffs. It's also why the rings offer glimpses of possible futures. I think the title sequence is a reference to this too. The sound is visualized by the grain, but the dark band in season 1 and the red sand in season two move of their own accord as a reference to Morgoth and Sauron respectively.
The whole bit about the dwarves - masters of stone work - not being able to move some rubble was hard to believe. Heck, even modern men and women with all the safety precautions we have to take today could clear it in a week or two if dire like this is.
i think the implication is that the darkness the dwarves are not yet aware of is interrupting their efforts and causing issues, and thus increasing the need for the Rings.
I LOVE YOUR BREAKDOWN VIDEOS! Kk I actually enjoy this season so far! Onto your episode 3 breakdown!
The Annatar reveal was epic. I didn't like the Celebrimbor-Halbrand relationship in Season 1, but this episode helped recover it nicely. It avoided the problem of Celebrimbor being deceived twice and instead made it one long con game by Sauron.
I think the two wizard are the Blue wizards. One went to the dark side and the other one has the potential to go to the good side. Since in the books it’s mentioned that they existed and few people knew about them, and also that they kind of were mysterious, it’s a great way to make a story that is creative, because the books didn’t explore them that much.
As much as I like your blue wizard idea, the stranger is definitely Gandalf.
1. The staff in his vision is Gandalf's staff, along with other hints I think this settles it (you say in the video that he finds the staff from his dream, this is incorrect. It's not the one, which is why it disintegrates. Watch the dream staff more carefully).
2. They're going to end the show by setting up the situation we see in the LOTR. This just makes sense as a prequel. The harfoots will wander westward, gondor will be built, the ring will be lost, and finally cirdan will give his ring to gandalf. This is the whole reason the stranger (gandalf) is in the show. To have him recieve the ring from cirdan.
perhaps you are right sir, but I hope not
I also feel like now that The Stranger is way more chatty, he's really being written like Gandalf. His charisma is really building now that he can speak full sentences and it really does sound more and more like a young Gandalf. The only alternative to this, if they go to the Blue Wizard route, would be making Wizards, at least good wizards, this kind of quirky charismatic beings.
I'm way more of just waiting and seeing but I do think from the showrunners' perspective, it also just makes a lot more sense to be Gandalf (Presenting this without comment/opinion, just in terms of putting myself in their shoes with trying to unravel and build a reveal with this mystery).
"Who" this Stranger is, is still a big question for viewers and the show is actively playing with that identity. I get from the perspective of purists that the Blue Wizard identity would be the preferable outcome but from a general audience perspective, I don't understand how they would be able to build up either a reveal, or mystery of this character and then the showrunners basically being like "It's a blue wizard!". The vast majority of people would be like "Who??".
I think it would be a great way to build out some lesser known lore and way more interesting but I just think this mystery behind this character is being written as eventually becoming more and more clear. And you can't slow drip a Blue Wizard (from the perspective of the show writers) to a general audience in my opinion and have the same impact. It might please a subset of people but I genuinely don't think it would land in a general audience way.
I guess in theory, the least egregious would be to make the Stranger Gandalf and the Dark Wizard, a bad Blue Wizard. But that's only the least egregious compared to making the Dark Wizard Saruman, which would really be bad in my opinion.
Very nice theory , I might also add the relationship and love than Gandalf has towards hobbits is probably caused by his love for nori……
But I also hope that the other wizard isn’t Saruman , it shouldn’t be
Also, just after they talk about him finding his name they refer to the staff as a gand. Which is another word for wand. Gandalf meant wand-elf.
The Harfoots referred to the staff as 'gand' and Gandalf literally means 'wand-elf'. What also might be a giveaway is a particular shot from one of the trailers. We see Bombadil putting on his head which suspiciously looks like Gandalf's in the movies. The prominence of the hat in this scene could mean we might see Bombadil giving the Stranger his head later in the show, further pushing him into the Gandalf direction
Some of the dialogue that makes me think the Stranger is Gandalf was when Poppy was asking why he doesn't just magic up some water and Nori says that he can't because he doesn't want to lose control because he doesn't have his "gand". Gand being a Norse word for staff or wand and a character from Norse mythology is called Gandalf, who Tolkien named the wizard after.
Not necessarily*. gand just means "staff" or "wand". While the name itself does derive from Norse mythology, Tolkien slotted it into his invented languages, per One Wiki to Rule Them All: "Within Tolkien's legendarium, "Gandalf" is a mysterious name of the meaning "Wand-Elf" (alternatively cane/staff) in old northern Mannish. Most denizens of Middle-earth incorrectly assumed Gandalf was a Man (human), although he was really a Maia spirit (equivalent to an angel)." That the Harfoots might use an old northern mannish word would make sense.
* I'm still hoping for blue wizards, but using the word makes it sound like a hint. Or a misdirect/red herring. A boy can dream....
That Annatar reveal was straight out of The Ten Commandments
Not to mention "Let my people go!" in (I forget which) one of the episodes.
@@LanceYunkin-v4jAnd the stranger’s sand staff looks like Moses’ snake staff. Another Exodus reference. I’m not mad it, knowing Tolkien’s background.
@@LanceYunkin-v4jThe first episode when he surrenders to Adar.
I see your point about the line "Sharer of Gifts" being redundant. But it's an interesting little spin on the fact that he's even twisting the language and to show His 'generosity'. Brimby correcting Sauron is him actually perhaps saying it to himself, how he's going to be Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, once the rings are made. You really see how Sauron digs into the elves' pride (Galadriel, Brimby etc.). It's what the One Ring does so well in the end...the possessive greed to be the ONE who has ALL POWER.
You just see here how Celebrimbor really wants to step out of the shadow of his forefathers and create something for which he will be remembered for.
19:40 seems like the sharer of gifts line was so they could use it in a trailer without spoiling that they got the rights to Annatar and Lord of Gifts titles
My thoughts too. Or perhaps they didn't have the rights at the time of making the trailer and then added that scene, but had to keep the scene from the trailer so it became both versions at the same time lol
One thing I think the Annatar reveal fixed was that, from Celebrimbor's perspective, Annatar *was* the one who taught him how to make the 3 rings, since Annatar and Halbrand are the same guy. If they'd had Sauron sneak back in as Annatar without first showing back up as Halbrand, it would've been a canon problem.
Like they care about canon 😂😂 I can't believe you said canon 😂😂. They have f.ed it since 1st episode 😂
The problem is that Celebrimbor's greatest accomplishment was the crafting of the Three. He's already done that before crafting the other 16 (not counting the One Ring) Rings of Power.
It is sad to see Celebrimbor being easily manipulated but the power of Sauron is great.
I don't think the Dark wizard is Saruman, but the Stranger is definitely Gandalf. Nori and Poppy talk about how the Stranger is looking for a "gand" or staff, and I don't need to tell you that Gandalf's name means "staff elf." I think it would be better if he were a blue wizard, but like you said, they are opting for the lazy way.
9:14 grandfather*
Came here to say this
Epidode 2 id give 8/10 i love the dedicated time for each story development. Realizing of course a volcano eruption would damage caves, and the fallout of Dwarves seems to have weight.
Can't believe they made Cirdan shave his beard. That's literally his main thing after the ships
I wasn't impressed with the beard-shaving either. It seems like a stupid decision.
@@estherhoward7959like all other decisions these hack writers make.. yawn
He has a few thousand years to regrow it, not really a big deal.
Was there a reason he was doing it or did I miss it?
@@OliverLodgeMusic no reason has been explained so far.
I absolutely LOVED Annatar's introduction, it was perfect in my opinion!!! I'm genuinely falling in love with this show, which is surprising cause season 1 didn't impress me so much, but season 2 touched my heart, I'm so happy!!!
I gotta believe you got to see these episodes before us by at least a day. Even if your team is F1 racing team level, you can't release content this rich so quick
First, I'm glad I decided to re-watch season 1 for that is how I discovered your channel. I'm no hardcore Tolkien book lore aficionado, yet I really appreciate your explanations of similarities and differences between book lore, and that presented here in the show. Once finished with my current series, I may have to start with Tolkien.
As for this season, I feel they are slightly rushing things. That awesome shot showing us how the dwarves use mirrors to bring sunlight to the depths of Khazad-dûm, was short-lived. They went through the trouble of showing us, only to block it a couple minutes later. We should have got that shot in season 1; we would have all this time to consider and further appreciate their ingenuity.
Sauron is playing 3d middle earth chess😈
Yes. All that was made possible by Galadriel not telling Celebrimbor that Halbrand was Sauron.🙄 So stupid.....
For ppl with 0 iq yea
@@EnerdhilYeah, I love how Sauron comes back to Eregion like he isn't going to get captured on the spot, for all he knows Galadriel would have told everyone on the room ssap. But no, I supose he expected her not to do so on the basis of knowing her to be that caliber of an idiot, wich honestly isn't much better.
@@hectorhernandezaleman3836
I think the argument they will have is something like:
Galadriel wanted the Three Elven Rings to be made and maybe thought Celebrimbor would either not make them or destroy them if he had made them. She likely coveted one of them. This RoP Galadriel is sooo far from lore-accurate that she disgusts me every time I see or hear her. They are trying to redeem her character in Season 2 but the only difference after Two Episodes is that she has not drawn her sword to fight.🙄
You mean 4d...
Unfortunately, I'm sure that the Stranger is Gandalf and I'm reasonably sure Ciaran is Saruman. Maybe the reader thought he turned evil in late 3rd age, but secretly he was always evil. It's in the books that he spent time on the East.
Having them be 2 Blue Wizs would be even more confusing for the casual viewer. Not everyone is as nerd as we are.
They are linking the series with LOTR as much as possible (moon runes, ents, balrog, etc...).
I think the whole shipping of Galadriel and Halbrand is completely fan made. I don't think it's necessarily googly eyed looks. Looks of affection or admiration don't have to be romantic. The thing about Sauron making Galadriel his queen wouldn't necessarily be out of love but usefulness. Remember Sauron is a master manipulator. And I've seen people talking about how Sauron in this show doesn't know if he's 100% evil. He's definitely evil, he just mask it as a means of deception. In every compassionate scene he has you can see the maniacal glint in his eyes.
I really love the cymatics opening sequence. Its a reminder that everything we see is the will of eru manifested through the Music of the Ainur. Also how the dwarves are singing to the mountain
Didn’t Gandalf and Saruman appeared in the third age? That wouldn’t make any sense to have them appear in the 2nd age.
@@KCobra396 Timescales are compressed for TV by a huge factor. Otherwise they'd have to recast the humans twice an episode and the dwarves once a week!
I've seen some folks speculating that the Dark Wizard could be Khamul, which works for me. We should start meeting future Nazgul if we haven't already. That said, the stanger and the wizard both being the Blue Wizards works for me, too!
Legit, the Dwarven storyline (including the previous season) is almost entirely the reason why I still keep going with this series... absolute great writing and acting.
Disa? Lol
@@doobieters1234calm down, buddy
What role do u play in the series ..or are u a background staff or pr team member
@@prodigalfraudaddy-es1gl oooh look an edge lord. The Dwarves are widely considered the best part of the series, even by many who hate the show. This isn’t an absurd take, OP even references it being almost the only reason they still watch. They’re not blindly praising the show.
I’d say don’t be an idiot, but you use, “u”, so it’s too late for that
@@user-jt1js5mr3fBeing the best part of Rop isn't a highbar, and this far the quality with the Dwarfs has taken a nosedive in S2, as Durin and Durin Jr. have turned into children for the sake of a conflict that they let open last season that wasn't even about that. Durin father desinherited Durin Jr. on the basis of tresaon, that isn't a family feud about pride that only needs them to talk to eachother like S2 seems to believe.
Something to note on the is the Stranger Gandalf situation-
Some time after their conversation about names and how he will basically know what his name is when he hears it, Nori and Poppy talk about the Stranger now missing his staff and how they can find a new one because there are sticks all over the place, but Nori refers to it as a "Gand". As in a reference to "Gand" or "Wand", and Gandalf's namesake from old northern mannish, "wand-elf" or "elf of the staff/cane" since that's how he got that name in Eriador.
This is 1000% either setting up a terrible cheesy moment where Nori suggests the name "Gandalf" and the Stranger goes "yup, that's it that's me", or it's setting up a funny subversive moment where she suggests "Gandalf" and he goes "..... naaaah that's not right" confirming blue wizard status.
Completely agree that Cirdan is the most elf like elf in this show
The “guess who’s back” part had me laughing for longer than I care to admit 😂
What happened to Cirdan’s beard after one episode 😂😂
Right??? Why shave bruhhhhh... He looks so badass with beard cause he's one of the few elves that is so ancient
I think it’s intended to show the rings power he’s wearing. Suddenly days after wearing it he looks younger. Obviously through choice, but it gives that view
@@alexmajor7773 so wearing the ring of fire makes him look younger? So why did gandalf didn't have a shaved appearance 😂
@@ZaimGamePlay I didn’t say it had the power to remove beards 😂 I said the writers are using it as imagery to convey that the ring has made him look more youthful
@@ZaimGamePlayimagine how old Gandalf would've looked before he got that ring
But then again, when Gandalf is speaking of his names in LOTR, he doesn't have the name in the East and says 'to the East I do not go', and that is what the Stranger literally does - seeks Rhun.
$5 that Kemen son of Pharazon becomes the Lord of the Nazgul in this adaptation...
These analysis make the episode much better!
One is a blue wizard, and the estranger is Gandalf
I love your Blue Wizards theory and it would be kind of fun to bait and switch us like that! Because they are hinting at it being Gandalf so hard, the most heavy hint I've seen so far is when hes having the dream of the staff, it morphs inbetween the hockey stick staff and what looks like Gandalfs staff from the movies. I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention it in the video, its there for a few frames. Maybe you're saving that for another video, IDK.
Loving your videos, and I'm definitely a little less annoyed at the show in this 2nd season.
Additionally, the Harfoots talk about getting him a "gand", a stick. Seems to me that choice of word is deliberate.
Payne and McKay are just playing Sauron to deceive the viewers of the Stranger's identity.
The leader who sent the Mystics to find The Stranger is Khamul. Future wraith,
I'd rather watch these breakdowns than the actual episodes. Thank you for your service!
I mentioned it in the watch party, but when Nori and Poppy discuss The Stanger using his powers, Nori says that he needs a "gand." I'm convinced that he's Gandalf. If it's true, it's a disappointment, but I get the name recognition for those who don't know deep lore. I also hope they don't make dark wizard Saruman.
I was worried about the Dark Wizard being Saruman but the vibes I got from the actual show lead me to believe he's someone else now
Yeah definitely. You don't pick 'gand' instead of staff without meaning to hint to the stranger is Gandalf. At this point if he isn't Gandalf we've all been gaslit. While I was hoping for blue wizards, I could live with having Gandalf though, as long as the dark wizard isn't Saruman cause that would just be stupid.
I don't agree about the name recognition for those who don't know the deep lore, when lotr came out 20 years ago I bet the majority of people who went to see it had never read the lotr books and had no clue who the characters were, myself included. But they made great movies with great characters that people fell in love with and were interested to learn more about.
I'm hoping they are the 2 blue wizards, the one turned evil while the stranger, "good."
@@jonirojonironin5353I‘m desperately hoping for that too. Or rather the stranger converts the fallen blue wizard back to light. That could be an amazing story line, if done right.
More Haradriel please!
Any TV show producer would say you can't ignore cast chemistry. Once you see it you have to lean into it.
Godammit, Cirdan's look in episode 1 was the most book accurate thing in the series so far and they immediately have him shave off his iconic beard? 🤦🏻♂️
Amen... It's absurd.
I didn't like that either! So stupid and added nothing to the story
Not the beard! Curse you Narya!
Then Cirdan shaved his beard off.😞
Right?! I almost feel like they did it on purpose just to tick off lore-abiding fans. "We're finally giving you Círdan, a fan favorite, and we're portraying him mostly how he is described and wanted by the fans, especially the beard, and......just kidding." Really a terrible decision.
While Nori and Poppy talk with The Stranger about him using his powers, Nori uses the words "...he cannot without his GAND" [meaning: his staff] Tolkien used this nordic word with creating the name for Gandalf. It's an obvious language hint for the fact that he will probably be revealed as Gandalf, but I also think that Allatar or Pallando would be much more cool and aligned with actual lore.
Honestly I've been very pessimistic about the show after the first season. But these first three episodes dont feel that bad.
Not bad but also not god for me it is just alright but that is not what i expect from lotr it needs to be great
Cirdan betrays Elrond's wishes and literally puts on one of the rings yet Elrond still seeks him out for advice, yeah that checks out.
First 3 episodes were pretty legit, way better than S1.
nah lol bad
1x06 and 1x08 are better than 2x02
I agree. But I was also generous with the fast forward button.
@@scottporter4524 fan fic writers would have either stuck better to the source material or abandoned it completely in favor of a coffee shop. And they wouldn’t have wasted a billion dollars.
im honestly enjoying this season, havent seen 4th episode yet tho
Great video! I will say you are so right about the writing. All Moria scenes were the best and Disa is such a stand out character for this episode!
When Disa sang to the mountain and the mountain assumingly rejected her call. I truly got choked up. Her last note and action was truly a "Help us" moment, that came crashing down. I had to pause the tv that scene was so great.
I struggle, with the power of Mordor being able to mess with the mountain, I assume that the Balrog is causing trouble down below.
Durin the Elder leans on the statment that the Stone Singers have been great at their job for 900 years and all of sudden, they aren't.
It might be a stretch, but I think when the Stone Singers and even Disa, being the best out of all of 'em (Assuming), sings to the mountain, the balrog hears it which causes a reaction to wreck havoc.
(Theory)
I hope not.. but Disa really seems to be connected to Khazad-Dum more than Durin The Elder & The Younger. I would hate to see it. I think the true dowfall of the great dwarven city will be strongly connected to the death of the great dwarven woman, Disa.
Stranger is Gandalf. Nori says “he’s afraid he’d lose control again without a gand.
But doesn't gand just mean staff? iirc, Gandalf means something like "staff elf", a mannish word for a being Men didn't really understand.
That said, I'm legit concerned that the show will go the lazy route & these two will indeed be Gandalf & Saruman. They'd then have to ret-con so the wizards wouldn't remember each other, like wiping C-3PO's memory in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They should have more faith in their audience, especially considering that most of us watching are more than just casual fans (i.e., we're readers, not just Jackson movie watchers), & would have no trouble with wizards who WEREN'T Gandalf or Saruman (or Radagast). I really hope I'm wrong, & I'm rooting for the show to get this right, but....