"Ugluck. I've been thinking?" "Have courage, my friend, these Gondorians are all cowards" "Yeah, er, Ugluck, have you looked at our sheilds lately?" "No. Yes. A little bit, why?" "They've got burning red eyes on them. Have you noticed our sheilds have got actual pictures of burning red eyes on them." "Well?" Ugluck...are we the baddies?"
To be fair, though, the orcs hated Sauron and were essentially his slaves, so they never would’ve considered him a good guy. It just so happens that they themselves were usually evil and hated the free races.
Have you ever thought about the fact that the internet is our oyster. We choose to confine ourselves on this limited website, with set rules and parameters. We can literally spread our wings and fly, however. We can be free. We can create an alternate reality right here, right now, where we levitate and feed baby pandas bamboo dipped in honey syrup all day long, followed by a short trip to Starbucks and then we can go fly planes and potentially perchance perhaps collide with legos shaped like rectangular towers and all of that incredibly fun stuff. The only real meaning of life depends on whether or not Help is on the way or not, Everything is stranger now, Tells me all I need to know Really if you think about it, Unusual events happen and Treachery also, maybe the Help is the friends along the way. Left and right, up and down, what does it mean? I'm simply stating a fact. Exactly. Say what you will but Inverse square law applies. Nevertheless, They know what i meant. Help really is coming. Epitomology. Is that a real word? Temporary results have occurred. Elevated above all else. Xerxes the god emperor. Tsunami comes fast. the world was created in seven days. Hss jsblz spl dpaopu
Orcs dont have personality like normal races. They hate everything: humans, elves, other orcs, Sauron, nature, food nust everything. That's how Sauron create them. Even if for one short moment just like in the book 2 orcs can think of abandon Mordor army, hide somewhere living as bandits but free without Sauron control they few hour slay yourself without any problem. Same like rest of the 100s of orcs from Cirith Ungol Fortress. That's normal thing for orcs
I *love* thinking about the Battle of Pelennor Fields from the Orc perspective: You've seemingly won, as you've almost conquered the city even without the Corsairs assistance. Suddenly, an army that should have been accounted for shows up behind you out of nowhere. To you, this likely means a good portion of your army has been completely slain. These horsemen also believe the battle is already lost. Their king rouses them with a speech about the end times & they charge with the fury of men *knowing* they are going to die. For the most part, they *sing* as they ride across the field. Then the Mûmakil & Witch-king probably give you hope, but not for long. I'm sure *every* member of Sauron's army present at the battle *felt* the fall of the Witch-king. Then Éomer finds Théoden & Éowyn, and rallies his men with cries of "death" in unison. Their rage has only increased & they've gone from singing to screaming "death", *thousands of voices in unison.* Then the ships of the Corsairs show up. This disheartens the Men & must cheer the Orcs. But instead of the Corsairs colors, there's a standard that hasn't been seen in a long time. Orcs might recognize it as what their master *hates.* This would, at best, *confuse tf* out of the Orcs. The horse riders, who have gone from singing to screaming as one, now begin *laughing* as they trample your allies on the field. Then the city of Minas Tirith releases its sortie while the warriors on the ships join the field & the horse riders continue to run off the Mûmakil & *gleefully* slay you and your allies. You went from being moments away from victory to utter defeat, while your deaths appear to be fun, like a child playing with toys. Wild stuff.
I doubt any of the Orcs recognized that sigil. I'd guess that only highly educated Black Numenorian types might know it. Maybe a handful of the more educated Haradrium might since a Gondorian king had a presence there a few hundred years earlier.
@@Uncle_Fred I meant they *might* recognize it only in a sense via Sauron's hate, their all being connected to him via his dominion over their will and all. Same as how I said they probably all felt the fall of the Witch-king. I also did specifically say they "might" recognize it "as what their master hates", meaning they wouldn't have to know that it's related to Aragorn or Elendil, or know that it's the standard of the King of Gondor, but simply be related to Gondor or the vague foe. Sauron has the eye... What emblem did he teach the Orcs to hate?
@@Uncle_Fred The orcs probably wouldn't know exactly what that specific sigil was, but they wouldn't have to. They'd realize it wasn't any of their own allied forces (as they'd initially expected), and they'd recognize how their enemies all immediately reacted to it with jubilation. That's about all the orcs would need to understand to realize that they were not about to be reinforced, but were, in fact, screwed.
Every time I hear "Mordor" I keep thinking that would be a great name for a place that sells doors. "Welcome to more door, simply walk in" "Orcs kick your door in? We have reinforced steel doors forged in the fires of more door that will resist any mortal attack" "We sell doorbells so effective that they only need _the one ring"_ " We don't deliver early, or late, we deliver precisely when we mean to" "This door is currently sold out, you can backorder it while it is gone-door"
One thing about the Rohirrim: like the real-life Saxons, when a leader was slain, the army would not retreat, but defend their slain leader till all were killed or victory won. So even if Aragorn had not arrived, the Riders of Rohan would have fought on.
I genuinely appreciate the way you draw events from the books, and visuals from the movies. There are plenty of people out there whose only contact with Middle Earth is the movie/ series, so it's beyond wonderful that this channel (and a few select others) are able to offer a proper education on the history and events of that world.
@@anonymous-hz2unOf course, she's a maiden! Aragorn is a manden! Chastity would have been highly important to the Professor. We have a much more casual attitude about fornication than was possible before the advent of modern birth control. Ideal men and ideal women are chaste unto marriage. In the Silmarillion, Morgoth begins to contemplate rape, it is implied, (Luthien) but the Professor doesn't even use a synonym for it. He just hints at it obliquely. Being more direct about female abuse was... beyond him, I think.
I'm interested in orc first aid, orcs seem to survive massive debilitating injuries and instead of being retired from active service carry healed wounds into battle.
I'm pretty sure the orc healing thing is just as simple as they heal very quick and have a sort of "immunity" to damage so when they lose a arm or leg they just shove a rusty metal one into its place and let it heal back over the new limb, I doubt they have actual healers or medics more like people who will find the ones breathing still and throw them into a pile and see who wakes up, if they dont wake up then meats on the menu
They probably had healers, musicians, smiths, bakers, inventors etc. Azog could write. So that means they had some type of schools for learning writing...
There is some kind of paste that's used for cuts and a restorative drink that burns. Merry receives this treatment from the Uruk Hai before the Riders of Rohan catch them.
I need to respect your love and knowledge for the subject, you are a great storyteller and you know what you're talking about. Keep up the good work and thank you for all the work you put into these.
There is a Russian novelle/fanfiction which tries to tell an alternate tell of how it all went down. It is a Soviet alternative perspective on Tolkien, where Aragorn and the elves are reactionary forces of traditionalism while Mordor is industrialised and moderned, the Nazgul are scientists and Sauron is the great engineer. The hellish industrial wasteland reversed.
@@Flozone1So he just copy book version of Saruman. Tolkien never liked how technology in almost every point is making ,,better" and ,,better" so fast no matter what will it cost
@@avrace2708 Essentially yes. Of course they go in deeper and they're more like enlightenment Italy & revolutionary France in some ways, poetry, arts and rationality flourishes in Barad-dur, and they get invaded because the mirror predicted them using gunpowder, and also because they developed parliamentary monarchy, and the medieval/reactionary kingdoms don't like that.
Funny how in LoTR, orcs essentially won the war and not just by huge numbers, but by superiority in other areas as well. They had mass production of everything, from plate armor, polearms, anti-armor cleavers, shields, crossbows to insanely powerful siege machinery and engineering equipment they widely used. Being physically stronger and more durable than humans, their survivability was high, orc medics were creating implants and prosthesis for wounded, which you can see on lots of orcs, and logistics for them was easier too as they could eat on fallen friends and foes. On top of that, they were also granted with night vision and besides having problems imposed by curse that was on their species, they were getting upgrades that would solve their weaknesses as Dark Side completed a successful program of creation of super soldiers (Uruk Hai). Orcs also had a real time communication lines (palantir) on their side which is just insane. Oh yeah, and orcs also had a way better tactics than humans, for sure, they practiced such advanced things like "Rodelero" , "Pike and Shoot", "Landsknechte/doppensoldner", had great understanding of mountain warfare with their beast riders, psychological warfare with throwing human heads over walls of besieged cities and etc. etc. while humans mostly had chainmail and "charge forward" tactics. Only elfs could put up a proper fight, but they were few in numbers. Orcs were literally unstoppable and without plot armor, fighting against them wouldn't be possible for any faction of Middle Earth, even for a combined force. Frodo and Sam saved everyone in the last moment.
@@lovepeace9727 Have you read Lotr books? In Tolkien Universe all orcs are much smaller and weaker than humans, they dont have plate armor but chainmail and scale armors. That's not Warcraft where orcs are brutes, in this Universe Humans are true tanks with heavy armor. But still imagine Numenorains which most of them have 2 meters height, they were the most badass warriors in this Universe. There was need of God's help to defeat them
I always thought the Orc from Cirith Ungol calling anyone opposing Sauron rebels was very interesting. The the Orcs Sauron wasn't the rebel, he was the true Ruler of Middle Earth.
This isn't unusual. Human cultures do this too. It was well recorded during the opium wars that the Chinese in their literature and discourse referred to the British (who were foreign invaders from the other side of the fucking planet that they had had only minimal contact with before this) as rebels in much the same way.
@@moritamikamikara3879Of course! So far as they were concerned, China was the center of the world (literally the "Middle Kingdom"), the most wealthy and populous country on Earth, and had been since the start of recorded history. Plus their imperial family had the Mandate of Heaven -- as proven by the fact that they were still the imperial family, despite numerous rebellions and the unfortunate fact of their being...you know... *non-Han* -- and must therefore be the wisest and most righteous people on Earth. Otherwise, Heaven would have replaced them. According to this logic, anybody going to war with the Chinese was self-evidently a rebel against Heaven itself.
The trick is...they're not technically wrong. Waaaaaaay back at the beginning of time, the gods of this setting abandoned Middle-Earth to Melkor/Morgoth, the Satan of this setting. And they showed no interest in reclaiming it when they defeated Melkor at the end of the First Age. So his property -- that is, all of Middle-Earth -- therefore reverts to his successor...who happens to be Sauron. Whether the inhabitants of Middle-Earth *like* being ruled by Sauron is irrelevant. Unless, of course, you're one of the inhabitants of Middle-Earth.
I often forget that Sloth from The Goonies got his start as a General for Sauron. Should be obvious when the rout at the Pelinor Fields began and you could hear him shouting "Hey YOU GUYS!".
bro i legit read this right after the exact orc you are talking about at the end came on screen and im laughing so hard im in fucking tears. He comes on at 14:59
@@dusky6280 hey, other boomer here, does boomer have to be used negatively? I know this is like "meta boomer" right now, but I'm old and out of the loop nowadays. When someone says boomer does it have to be in a bad way?
@@dusky6280 Just saying, the Goonies aren't boomer. That's late GenX/Millennial. Get your "you're old" insults right, at least! And get off the lawn I can't afford!
Just as a note, the orcs in Gundabad still largely worshipped Morgoth, as well as most of the misty mountain orcs, though I believe they participated to some extent in the war of the ring.
12:10 Crazy that they must've been thinking "Well, we pulled off a miracle at Minis Tirith but there's no way out this one." Hence Gimli and Legolas' memorable words
I think this leads to a very interesting alternate history for Middle Earth. What if the orcs won at Pelennor Fields, burnt Minas Tirith, killed most of the main characters and then, at their moment of greatest triumph, the ring is destroyed. (The other alternate history I like is "What if Smeagol never kills Deagol and Saruman/Gandalf find out about the ring and tell Deagol he has to go to Mordor to destroy it.")
Please please please do again your analysis segments after each new episode of House of Dragon & Rings of Power season 2 - they are always so insightful and interesting!
I distinctly remembering that in The Lost Tales Tolkien gave his take on what happened to The Orcs generally when Sauron fell for (hopefully) the last time and pretty much they did what they always did when either Melkor and or Sauron disappeared for ages on end : Like the Dwarves they generally withdrew (with some few exceptions. There have been Orcs who set up their own top-side communities and engaged in farm-work, craftsmenship and trade with local communities of Men and Dwarves with little to no conflict) back into their underground communities and went about minding their own business until eventually they passed out of common knowledge.
Send their spirts back to Eru. Good luck trying to trade with a Mordo-infected Orc as he eats your entrails. Methinks you've forgotten what's been on the Orcish menu since the First Age. Middle Earth is not World of Warcraft. Tolkien's Orcs are irredeemably evil which is the whole point of their role in Middle Earth: they are incarnated spirits of Men (according to Tolkien's last musings on the subject), twisted to do evil because Morgoth put part of himself into them. Only Eru can save 'em.
I love how Tokien didnt' create one-dimensional bad guys for Middle Earth; even the Orcs and Uruk-hai had individual personalities. Sad that they were unable to showcase much of this in the film. I mean, we see it a little, but not nearly as much as we're able to read in the books.
Look up a book called "The Last Ringbearer" by Kiril Yeskov, which takes a "history is written by the victors" approach to LotR and tells an alternative view of the story and the aftermath from the POV od the orc side.
Very interesting video as always, but I was hoping for some more insights of the orcs. What ist their motivation? What drives them? Why do they think they are the "good ones" in their respective story? Why are our heroes the enemies to them? I'm looking forward to your video on orc culture and hopefully some questions might be covered there :)
Tolkien said several times that Orcs were evil by nature (even if not irredeemably so). They hated sunlight and hated goodness. They engaged in pointless destruction whenever they had the occasion to do so. They were smart, but only used this intelligence in creating the tools of war.
Good Guy Uglúk: Hellbent on completing his task, cares about prisoner's health, offers them medicine, even pulls a joke when they are having hard time drinking it. Protects Merry/Pippin from hungry Lurzburg orcs, on top of all, is an Uruk of culture to know what a menu is!
Recently pondering that old geezer Treebeard who brought Merry and Pippin 70,000 Ent strides I'm human: a mile is about 2,000 paces (70,000 paces would be about 35 miles). If an Ent stride equals three human strides... he carried them over 100 miles. Really? Okay, I'll shut up now. Cheers
That is in a straight line on flat land with no obstacles. Fangorn provided none of those conditions. Many streams might only be forded at certain points and there were large elevation changes.
Sauron’s perspective 1. Largest employer of the Middle Earth 2. Blocked inside a mountainous area. It was an open air prison 3. Discriminated by every other nation. 4. Orcs were subject to ages of racism 5. Maggoty bread all day 6. Continually been subject to declared wars by men, elves, and dwarfs. 7. Conspiracy theorist Wizards continually try to plot coups against Sauron 8. Thief murderous Men stole Sauron’s ring !!!!! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
I've also never thought about the Orcs, other than being mindless, evil creatures. But they're clearly more than that. I love this commentary on their perspective.
Reminds me of one of my favorite books, Orcs! by Mary Gentle. It's a bit tongue in cheek, and there's a lot of other things, but it's basically a Tolkien pastiche told from a company of orcs and it's hilarious how they describe all the High Fantasy tropes.
i really love that you also used screenshots and concept art from Shadows of Mordor - That game really made me think about the life of these Orcs and i think also did a great job showing the "normal" life of an orc
There is actually an interesting novel written about this by a Russian physicist, called "The Last Ringbearer", it's badly written but the idea is great: the perspective is Mordor being a secular, industrializing country that underwent a revolution and industrialization being opposed by an Axis of reactionary feudal regimes who want to crush it, led by Gandalf the mad. In this novel, Mordor is treated a bit like revolutionary France or the USSR after the revolution, attacked by counter-revolutionaries from all over the world. Badly written but great read.
The amount of lore that Tolkien created is immense. I mean we have people making historical documentaries on the lore as if it actually happened! It is cool af
It's easy as the orc conversations you mention are exactly that...orc perspectives :). "'No, I don't know,' said Gorbag's voice. 'The messages go through quicker than anything could fly, as a rule. But I don't enquire how it's done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgûl give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you, and leave you all cold in the dark on the other side. But He likes 'em; they're His favourites nowadays, so it's no use grumbling. I tell you, it's no game serving down in the city.' 'You should try being up here with Shelob for company,' said Shagrat. 'I'd like to try somewhere where there's none of 'em. But the war's on now, and when that's over things may be easier.' 'It's going well, they say.' 'They would.' grunted Gorbag. 'We'll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d'you say? - if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.' 'Ah!' said Shagrat. 'Like old times.' 'Yes,' said Gorbag. 'But don't count on it. I'm not easy in my mind. As I said, the Big Bosses, ay,' his voice sank almost to a whisper, 'ay, even the Biggest, can make mistakes. Something nearly slipped you say. I say, something has slipped. And we've got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. But don't forget: the enemies don't love us any more than they love Him, and if they get topsides on Him, we're done too. But see here: when were you ordered out?' 'About an hour ago, just before you saw us. A message came: Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs. I came at once.' 'Bad business,' said Gorbag. 'See here - our Silent Watchers were uneasy more than two days ago, that I know. But my patrol wasn't ordered out for another day, nor any message sent to Lugbúrz either: owing to the Great Signal going up, and the High Nazgûl going off to the war, and all that. And then they couldn't get Lugbúrz to pay attention for a good while, I'm told.' 'The Eye was busy elsewhere, I suppose,' said Shagrat. 'Big things going on away west, they say.' 'I daresay,' growled Gorbag. 'But in the meantime enemies have got up the Stairs. And what were you up to? You're supposed to keep watch, aren't you, special orders or no? What are you for?' 'That's enough! Don't try and teach me my job. We were awake all right. We knew there were funny things going on.' 'Very funny!' 'Yes, very funny: lights and shouting and all. But Shelob was on the go. My lads saw her and her Sneak.' 'Her Sneak? What's that?' 'You must have seen him: little thin black fellow; ... like a starved frog. ... Anyway my lads reported that Her Ladyship was having some fun, and that seemed good enough for me, until the message came. I thought her Sneak had brought her a toy, or that you'd perhaps sent her... a prisoner of war.... I don't interfere when she's playing. Nothing gets by Shelob when she's on the hunt.' 'Nothing, say you! Didn't you use your eyes back there? I tell you I'm not easy in my mind. Whatever came up the Stairs, did get by. It cut her web and got clean out of the hole. That's something to think about!' 'Ah well, but she got him in the end, didn't she?' 'Got him? Got who? This little fellow? But if he was the only one then she'd have had him off to her larder long before, and there he'd be now. And if Lugbúrz wanted him, you'd have to go and get him. Nice for you. But there was more than one.' At this point Sam began to listen more attentively and pressed his ear against the stone. 'Who cut the cords she'd put round him, Shagrat? Same one as cut the web. Didn't you see that? And who stuck a pin into Her Ladyship? Same one, I reckon. And where is he? Where is he, Shagrat?' Shagrat made no reply. 'You may well put your thinking cap on, if you've got one. It's no laughing matter. No one, no one has ever stuck a pin in Shelob before, as you should know well enough. There's no grief in that; but think - there's someone loose hereabouts as is more dangerous than any other damned rebel that ever walked since the bad old times, since the Great Siege. Something has slipped.' 'And what is it then?' growled Shagrat. 'By all the signs, Captain Shagrat, I'd say there's a large warrior loose, Elf most likely, with an elf-sword anyway, and an axe as well maybe: and he's loose in your bounds, too, and you've never spotted him. Very funny indeed!' Gorbag spat. Sam smiled grimly at this description of himself. 'Ah well, you always did take a gloomy view.' said Shagrat. ... 'When I've had a look at the fellow we have caught, then I'll begin to worry about something else.' 'It's my guess you won't find much in that little fellow,' said Gorbag. 'He may have had nothing to do with the real mischief. The big fellow with the sharp sword doesn't seem to have thought him worth much anyhow - just left him lying: regular elvish trick.' The Two Towers, LoTR Book 4, Ch 10, The Choices of Master Samwise So they are grunts, soldiers they see what they see of the war machine of Sauron from their position, they see everything through their service...working, on shifts, duties, patrolling, doing menial tasks, marching, training, preparing, realizing the orders of the higher ups or giving them to the lower ranks etc. The orc perspective would of course view the enemy as dreadful ,terrible Elves the fear of their powers and light, the orcs have their own tales, superstitions, beliefs, their lives would be led by the routines and duties of their miltiary service.....well it's of course for the Orcs who are soldiers in services of the evil lords armies because those more or less independent 'free tribes' and clans would form up other way of life: "The two hobbits gazed at the towers and the wall in despair. Even from a distance they could see in the dim light the movement of the black guards upon the wall, and the patrols before the gate. They lay now peering over the edge of a rocky hollow beneath the out-stretched shadow of the northmost buttress of Ephel Dúath.... [A] crow, maybe, would have flown but a furlong from their hiding-place to the black summit of the nearer tower.... Day came.... Then suddenly the cry of brazen-throated trumpets was heard: from the watch-towers they blared, and far away from hidden holds and outposts in the hills came answering calls; and further still..., there echoed in the hollow land beyond the mighty horns and drums of Barad-dûr. Another dreadful day of fear and toil had come to Mordor..., and the day-guards... were marching to their posts...." As I said...military service :) guard duty and all that :). Of course soldiers now and then get some free time...and so did the orcs and they would have their own entertainments and fun, feasting, drinking etc. " There within sight of the peaks of Thangorodrim the Orcs made their encampment in a bare dale, and set wolf-sentinels all about its rim. There they fell to carousing and feasting on their booty; and after tormenting their prisoners most fell drunkenly asleep. By that time day was failing and it became very dark. " Those of Goblin-town would be more ribald and freer somewhat :). ""Batter and beat! Yammer and bleat! Work, work! Nor dare to shirk, While Goblins quaff, and Goblins laugh, Round and round far underground" Orc point of view: "... its light smote the eyes of the orc like the glitter of cruel stars in the terrible elf-countries, the dream of which was a cold fear to all his kind." ... "He's coming here, I tell you. You heard the bell. He's got past the Watchers, and that's tark's work." This last quote seems to imply they have superstitious beliefs about Tarks...so the abilities of the Numenorean origin men ("In this jargon tark, 'man of Gondor', was a debased form of tarkil, a Quenya word used in Westron for one of Númenorean descent; see III, 54."). They definitely passed down the 'memories' of the past events: "So began the Battle of Azanulbizar (or Nanduhirion in the Elvish tongue), at the memory of which the Orcs still shudder and the Dwarves weep." They seemed to pass down the stories. The Orcs of the First Age even seem to have some knowledge of the Valar the Powers of the World, the 'gods' of the setting, though obviously with quite different slant: "But now in the camp beneath the Orcs were roused, both by the storm and by Turin's cry, and discovered that Turin was gone; but no search was made for him, for they were filled with terror by the thunder that came out of the West, believing that it was sent against them by the great Enemies beyond the Sea."
Try reading "The Last Ringbearer" by Kirill Yeskov. You can only find it as an ebook because they were afraid of legal actions fom the tolkien family, so it is not printed. I found it as good and well written as the original, with a really novel point of view.
I would have liked to hear more about the way the armies of Mordor were fed. Did they have big evil farms? What do Orks even eat? I'm curious about food in general in Middle Earth. Can Elves starve to death? Does Gandalf need to eat?
'Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Nurnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves.'
Clearly the orcs don't have a robust livestock industry, or else they wouldn't have felt the need to say, "looks like meat's back on the menu".... From both a logistic/geological standpoint and a worldbuilding standpoint, the orcs live in the volcanic ash lands around Mt Doom, which means they have mineral-rich soil. Much like southern Italy/Sicily or Japan, it's likely ideal land for growing enormous quantities of wheat, and they probably do labour-intensive farming throughout the lands. Thematically, I could see the orc diet being largely built around a sort of "anti-lembas", the most depressing bread in the world. As for elves, considering how not particularly welcoming of non-elves they are, I doubt they would have built such cultural importance around lembas if sustenance was only something the other races had to worry about. Perhaps they have the ability to slow or even stop their metabolism through meditation or something when needed, but otherwise there's no indication that they are unaffected by hunger, fatigue, or other frailties that mortals experience, just at a slower pace. So, I would theorize that elves CAN starve to death, in the same way that they can be felled by a stab wound, despite being naturally immortal. Gandalf is a different story, though. He's a spiritual being that is taking the appearance of a man. I'm sure he and the other Istari ENJOY eating (a good hearty meal is one of the bedrock components of "a good life" in the morality of Tolkien, after all), but he has no actual need for it.
@@kingvarien True. Also, the use of the word "back" when referring to meat implies that it's at least occasionally on the menu. Mordor doesn't strike me as a place with plentiful wild animals, or being particularly hospitable to livestock, but other areas where orcs live would sensibly have both of those things. Overall, I guess I don't see a reason that their diet would be significantly different from humans, hobbits, etc.
You mention the fell beasts at Pelennor Fields. I heard a theory somewhere that the term "fell beast" wasn't a proper noun, but a description, as if it were one of Morgoth's experiments to twist the living things of the world, and Sauron ended up making use of them (though he didn't create them). That makes them even more unnerving, because now I understand it not as a name, but our best attempt to give one to an unknowable creature (or perhaps a creature better left unknown). The fact that such creatures were wielded as mounts by the nazgul would be enough to make any orc say "yes sir".
With the movies, I actually felt bad for orcs cause they were so easily defeated by just one or two heroes. Just one ranger can take out like 20 of them and the Legolas can take out like a 100 hundred on his own
"The best weapon is the spear; you got long, and you got sharp." --orcs from Shadow of Mordor, which I see you used in the art, or perhaps from Shadow of War.
Thank you again Robert for your wonderful story telling. From you I think I can listen LOTR from anyone's perspective, you tell the story so well. And yes it's a worthy look for these beings who were doing all this under slavery.
@In Deep Geek 3: 57 - “There were humans; Easterlings and Black Numenoreans.” Maybe Haradrim or some other creeds of men too 4: 00 - “Wargs for the Orcs to ride.” There could’ve also been horses for the humans as well, and maybe some other animals like the “Great Beasts” that hauled Grond
I've heard there's an unauthrized book written about this matter. Some russian guy's written a 300 pages, an alternative version of the LOTR events. Mordor's propaganda, elvish and human imperialism, daily struggles of the orcs, etc.
It's called "the last ringbearer" and paints Mordor as an upcoming industry and depending on technology. The wizards from Gondor have an agenda to keep their folk stupid with tales of magic in fear that they might begin to see it as oppression. It's a really interesting take. I thought this video would be about this book.
This is why I love Tolkins words so much. They translate into our world with ease. 15:05 My understanding as well is that Orcs are just like a lot of europe in the second World War. A lot of grey lifes with dark minds. A life where the only warmth you feel is the fire of an explosion and the heat of your enemys blood. The Power of Saurons evil is the power to cut everyone apart from each other. To kill connection. Connection to life and to love. To peace and good food. This is what makes life worthwhile. This is what creates a life which can be like... ...a Hobbit or maybe even an Elve. It's somehow to be quite disconnected of the rest of the world, but at the same time beeing deeply in touch with it. This and a lot more is to me the beauty of Tolkin and Middelearth.
Have we ever given a hint that the orcs of the Misty Mountains were in any way under the control of Sauron? People always seem to assume that, but I think there is no evidence besides the assumption that "They are orcs, aren't they? So they must be under his control." I always assumed that the presence of the Balrog blocked his influence. Also: They were far from Mordor for millenia and mostly surrounded by force hostile to them. None of the wars they have waged seem to be in any way coordinated events, they were just instigated by local warlords when given an outside opportunity. The only period where they could have been under Saurons direct influence may have been the north of the Misty Mountains during the Witch King's rule in Angmar. But even here I don't recall that his forces included orcs. It seems to me they were not part of his plans.
This is a good video. That being said I expected something else from the title. A speculative video about the perspective of orcs in the war of the ring would be great. ❤
So to summarise, 'Lord of the Rings from an orc's perspective' was: depressing, brutal, terrifying & then very swiftly ...over! (Though for the record, I'd honestly LOVE to read a tongue-in-cheek retelling of LOTR, from the perspective of an Orcish, Anti Frodo & Sam; desperately seeking a quiet life, while getting swept up in the epic conflict! Perhaps in the vein of Ciaphas Cain, Blackadder, Fred Colon & Nobby Nobbs, Tag & Bink or 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead' etc.)
That could be amazing if done right; It could even be done in a way where it is ambiguous enough, or satirical enough, with the setting to make it copyright friendly.
While not 100% LotR based, you might enjoy 'Grunts' by Mary Gentle - that's a comedic story of 'the Final Battle' from the perspective of a bunch of orcs serving a Dark Lord.
This video and proffered were excellent. Seeing the timelines laid out and connected as well as the varying views and roles of the orcs was enlightening (despite their hatred of light!). Thank you.
@JesusChrist-vq6lk Thanks for the reply Jesus, can I just say I love your earlier work 😉 That's actually a good idea! Don't even need audible. Keeps the RUclips fan base. 👍
You may have done it already. But how about a video on why the ghost army did not deal with Mordor after. It would have saved a lot of lives and surely a few extra hours of their time meant nothing against being cursed already for many years.
Aragorn just barely had the ghost under control. He certainly didn't want them any closer to Sauron. The sooner he could hold their oath fulfilled and send them out of Sauron's reach the better.
In Rings of Power orcs are consistently decipted as brutal killers who loot, plunder and burn villages and enslave humans and elves. One orc caring for his child doesn't make all orcs "just like us" - it doesn't even mean that specific orc is not evil because even evil people can care about their own families (see e.g. Michael Corleone from the Godfather movies)
Hey Robert! I love your lotr content and I am patiently waiting for your rerelease of Gollum: A Character Study! It was genuinely one of my favorite videos on the entire internet and I was sad to see you made it private!
Can we nominate Robert to take over narration duties for productions that would normally call David Attenborough? Could listen to you talk about sludge and enjoy every second!
Sometimes I think that the surviving orcs went into politics. Nice work as usual. I'm reminded of the classic 1971 novel _Grendel_ by John Gardner, which tells the tale of Beowulf from the monster's point of view.
An orc's 'loyalty' depends hugely on his proximity to a loyal overlord or captain. Captains are expected to and depended on keeping the common footsoldiers or "maggots" in line. Just a slight deviation from the strictest of enforcements and the common orc instantly starts scheming and planning for selfish reasons. You can find hints of this in almost any interaction between two orcs. And they all seem to have their personal drives and dreams. Some dream of promotion, some of "plundering in peace", some of escape from slavery. So it wouldn't be such a reach to say that the common orc perspective - regardless of their tribe, location or overlord - would be "I wish we'd be done with all this soon, so that we can see if we can all go on our business".
Orcs perspective? I want to know the perspective of the orc scaling the wall of Helm’s Deep on a ladder while hearing a Dwarf counting…
I can help you there! “Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuuuu”
Uruk - hai
@@yoooooooooojeff hello 👋 😊
😂
I want to know the perspective of the orc who got shot in the neck at the beginning.
"We ain't had nothing but maggoty bread for three stinking days." - Orc
That's some perspective and no mistake
lol , exactly the perspective i was thinking of
What about their legs?
@@BigBoss-xr8dgThey don't need them!
"What abouts them, they're freessh?"
"THEY ARE NOT FOR EATING!".
It's comforting that orcs also have to deal with middle management, as I do.
@@kingvarien Oooo they look tasty!
The orc perspective
> 'ate humans
> 'ate dwarves
> 'ate elves
> love me grog
> love killin
> simple as
Murdermaxxing and grogmaxxing
probably ate them too
Ate each other...
Chad orc
One of the most plain and uninteresting villain design right there.
"Ugluck. I've been thinking?"
"Have courage, my friend, these Gondorians are all cowards"
"Yeah, er, Ugluck, have you looked at our sheilds lately?"
"No. Yes. A little bit, why?"
"They've got burning red eyes on them. Have you noticed our sheilds have got actual pictures of burning red eyes on them."
"Well?"
Ugluck...are we the baddies?"
Fan of Mitchell and webb?
It’s better than a rat’s anus.
Nope, now bring your lord another village.
To be fair, though, the orcs hated Sauron and were essentially his slaves, so they never would’ve considered him a good guy. It just so happens that they themselves were usually evil and hated the free races.
Orc lives matter! Did you know that orcs, while only 19% of the population commit over 50% of all crime?
The LoTR from the orc’s perspective? “Where there’s a whip, there’s a way!”
We don't wanna go to war today
But the lord of the lash says "Nay, nay, nay!"
Sauron: [issues marching orders]
Orcs: Just like we rehearsed, boys! 1...2...3...
Where there’s a whip there’s a will ..
@@katherinegraham3803 We're gonna march all day (all day, all day)!
My bosses get mad when I play that song. I don't see the problem
Orc's perspective:
- wait to go into battle
- go into battle
- immediately die
Have you ever thought about the fact that the internet is our oyster. We choose to confine ourselves on this limited website, with set rules and parameters. We can literally spread our wings and fly, however. We can be free. We can create an alternate reality right here, right now, where we levitate and feed baby pandas bamboo dipped in honey syrup all day long, followed by a short trip to Starbucks and then we can go fly planes and potentially perchance perhaps collide with legos shaped like rectangular towers and all of that incredibly fun stuff.
The only real meaning of life depends on whether or not Help is on the way or not, Everything is stranger now, Tells me all I need to know Really if you think about it, Unusual events happen and Treachery also, maybe the Help is the friends along the way. Left and right, up and down, what does it mean?
I'm simply stating a fact. Exactly. Say what you will but Inverse square law applies. Nevertheless, They know what i meant. Help really is coming. Epitomology. Is that a real word? Temporary results have occurred. Elevated above all else. Xerxes the god emperor. Tsunami comes fast.
the world was created in seven days.
Hss jsblz spl dpaopu
Lmfao
😂
Get hit in the head with an axe and hear some dwarf yell "Fifteen!" as you fall to the ground.
Yep. That's what I was thinking. 😀
I think the Shadow or Mordor games did a great job on giving orcs personalities beyond just mindless slaughter.
Calling the Battle of 5 Armies the Battle to Unfairly Ganging Up on the Orcs was brilliant!
@@ZlothZloth they just wanted their portion of the wealth, the same as Elves and Humans, they're good guys too :D
Orcs dont have personality like normal races. They hate everything: humans, elves, other orcs, Sauron, nature, food nust everything. That's how Sauron create them. Even if for one short moment just like in the book 2 orcs can think of abandon Mordor army, hide somewhere living as bandits but free without Sauron control they few hour slay yourself without any problem. Same like rest of the 100s of orcs from Cirith Ungol Fortress. That's normal thing for orcs
I only played the second, but I was really impressed with how much it made me care about my boys.
@@itshenry8977 Except the fact they created from Morgoth's ring, like the dwarves, except Eru later gave the dwarves a true soul.
I *love* thinking about the Battle of Pelennor Fields from the Orc perspective:
You've seemingly won, as you've almost conquered the city even without the Corsairs assistance.
Suddenly, an army that should have been accounted for shows up behind you out of nowhere. To you, this likely means a good portion of your army has been completely slain.
These horsemen also believe the battle is already lost. Their king rouses them with a speech about the end times & they charge with the fury of men *knowing* they are going to die.
For the most part, they *sing* as they ride across the field.
Then the Mûmakil & Witch-king probably give you hope, but not for long.
I'm sure *every* member of Sauron's army present at the battle *felt* the fall of the Witch-king.
Then Éomer finds Théoden & Éowyn, and rallies his men with cries of "death" in unison. Their rage has only increased & they've gone from singing to screaming "death", *thousands of voices in unison.*
Then the ships of the Corsairs show up. This disheartens the Men & must cheer the Orcs.
But instead of the Corsairs colors, there's a standard that hasn't been seen in a long time. Orcs might recognize it as what their master *hates.*
This would, at best, *confuse tf* out of the Orcs. The horse riders, who have gone from singing to screaming as one, now begin *laughing* as they trample your allies on the field.
Then the city of Minas Tirith releases its sortie while the warriors on the ships join the field & the horse riders continue to run off the Mûmakil & *gleefully* slay you and your allies.
You went from being moments away from victory to utter defeat, while your deaths appear to be fun, like a child playing with toys.
Wild stuff.
I doubt any of the Orcs recognized that sigil. I'd guess that only highly educated Black Numenorian types might know it. Maybe a handful of the more educated Haradrium might since a Gondorian king had a presence there a few hundred years earlier.
@@Uncle_Fred
I meant they *might* recognize it only in a sense via Sauron's hate, their all being connected to him via his dominion over their will and all. Same as how I said they probably all felt the fall of the Witch-king.
I also did specifically say they "might" recognize it "as what their master hates", meaning they wouldn't have to know that it's related to Aragorn or Elendil, or know that it's the standard of the King of Gondor, but simply be related to Gondor or the vague foe. Sauron has the eye... What emblem did he teach the Orcs to hate?
Well said
@@Uncle_Fred The orcs probably wouldn't know exactly what that specific sigil was, but they wouldn't have to. They'd realize it wasn't any of their own allied forces (as they'd initially expected), and they'd recognize how their enemies all immediately reacted to it with jubilation. That's about all the orcs would need to understand to realize that they were not about to be reinforced, but were, in fact, screwed.
@@Wolfeson28 Yeah, I agree they would understand that.
Every time I hear "Mordor" I keep thinking that would be a great name for a place that sells doors.
"Welcome to more door, simply walk in"
"Orcs kick your door in? We have reinforced steel doors forged in the fires of more door that will resist any mortal attack"
"We sell doorbells so effective that they only need _the one ring"_
" We don't deliver early, or late, we deliver precisely when we mean to"
"This door is currently sold out, you can backorder it while it is gone-door"
One doesn't simply walk into More Door.
One thing about the Rohirrim: like the real-life Saxons, when a leader was slain, the army would not retreat, but defend their slain leader till all were killed or victory won. So even if Aragorn had not arrived, the Riders of Rohan would have fought on.
They knew it was their last ride
I genuinely appreciate the way you draw events from the books, and visuals from the movies.
There are plenty of people out there whose only contact with Middle Earth is the movie/ series, so it's beyond wonderful that this channel (and a few select others) are able to offer a proper education on the history and events of that world.
LotR from Elrond's perspective would be a neat take
Trying to cockblock aragorn 💀
@@groguuuyoda9479 he cockblocked just about everyone. It's pretty strongly implied that Arwen was a maiden.
Already a video isn't it?
I concur. Motion carries!
@@anonymous-hz2unOf course, she's a maiden! Aragorn is a manden! Chastity would have been highly important to the Professor.
We have a much more casual attitude about fornication than was possible before the advent of modern birth control. Ideal men and ideal women are chaste unto marriage. In the Silmarillion, Morgoth begins to contemplate rape, it is implied, (Luthien) but the Professor doesn't even use a synonym for it. He just hints at it obliquely.
Being more direct about female abuse was... beyond him, I think.
One of the most interesting passages in LOTR is the conversation between Gorbag and Shagrat. Completely changed how I looked at Orcs after that.
I'm interested in orc first aid, orcs seem to survive massive debilitating injuries and instead of being retired from active service carry healed wounds into battle.
I'm pretty sure the orc healing thing is just as simple as they heal very quick and have a sort of "immunity" to damage so when they lose a arm or leg they just shove a rusty metal one into its place and let it heal back over the new limb, I doubt they have actual healers or medics more like people who will find the ones breathing still and throw them into a pile and see who wakes up, if they dont wake up then meats on the menu
Right? We see some of them with cuts use metal like stitches😂
They probably had healers, musicians, smiths, bakers, inventors etc. Azog could write. So that means they had some type of schools for learning writing...
A
There is some kind of paste that's used for cuts and a restorative drink that burns. Merry receives this treatment from the Uruk Hai before the Riders of Rohan catch them.
I need to respect your love and knowledge for the subject, you are a great storyteller and you know what you're talking about. Keep up the good work and thank you for all the work you put into these.
Orc POV: Ohey, we're winning!
5 seconds later: Oh no...
There is a Russian novelle/fanfiction which tries to tell an alternate tell of how it all went down. It is a Soviet alternative perspective on Tolkien, where Aragorn and the elves are reactionary forces of traditionalism while Mordor is industrialised and moderned, the Nazgul are scientists and Sauron is the great engineer. The hellish industrial wasteland reversed.
@@Flozone1So he just copy book version of Saruman. Tolkien never liked how technology in almost every point is making ,,better" and ,,better" so fast no matter what will it cost
@@avrace2708 Essentially yes. Of course they go in deeper and they're more like enlightenment Italy & revolutionary France in some ways, poetry, arts and rationality flourishes in Barad-dur, and they get invaded because the mirror predicted them using gunpowder, and also because they developed parliamentary monarchy, and the medieval/reactionary kingdoms don't like that.
Funny how in LoTR, orcs essentially won the war and not just by huge numbers, but by superiority in other areas as well. They had mass production of everything, from plate armor, polearms, anti-armor cleavers, shields, crossbows to insanely powerful siege machinery and engineering equipment they widely used. Being physically stronger and more durable than humans, their survivability was high, orc medics were creating implants and prosthesis for wounded, which you can see on lots of orcs, and logistics for them was easier too as they could eat on fallen friends and foes. On top of that, they were also granted with night vision and besides having problems imposed by curse that was on their species, they were getting upgrades that would solve their weaknesses as Dark Side completed a successful program of creation of super soldiers (Uruk Hai). Orcs also had a real time communication lines (palantir) on their side which is just insane. Oh yeah, and orcs also had a way better tactics than humans, for sure, they practiced such advanced things like "Rodelero" , "Pike and Shoot", "Landsknechte/doppensoldner", had great understanding of mountain warfare with their beast riders, psychological warfare with throwing human heads over walls of besieged cities and etc. etc. while humans mostly had chainmail and "charge forward" tactics. Only elfs could put up a proper fight, but they were few in numbers.
Orcs were literally unstoppable and without plot armor, fighting against them wouldn't be possible for any faction of Middle Earth, even for a combined force.
Frodo and Sam saved everyone in the last moment.
@@lovepeace9727 Have you read Lotr books? In Tolkien Universe all orcs are much smaller and weaker than humans, they dont have plate armor but chainmail and scale armors. That's not Warcraft where orcs are brutes, in this Universe Humans are true tanks with heavy armor. But still imagine Numenorains which most of them have 2 meters height, they were the most badass warriors in this Universe. There was need of God's help to defeat them
There is a great book by russian author Kirill Yeskov "The Last Ringbearer" telling the story from the point of view of Sauron's forces.
Hard to find..but yes. Orcs and Nazguls need love too ( I guess )
"Wheres a whip theres a way" as the orcs use to say
We don't wanna go to war today!
But the lord of the lash says "Nay nay nay!"
Edit: Devo agrees
@@moritamikamikara3879
We’re gonna march all day all day all daaaaaayyyy!
Oh, where there’s a whip there’s a way.
Never forget, Sam started a race war…
I think that was Rankin and Bass....
I always thought the Orc from Cirith Ungol calling anyone opposing Sauron rebels was very interesting. The the Orcs Sauron wasn't the rebel, he was the true Ruler of Middle Earth.
This isn't unusual. Human cultures do this too.
It was well recorded during the opium wars that the Chinese in their literature and discourse referred to the British (who were foreign invaders from the other side of the fucking planet that they had had only minimal contact with before this) as rebels in much the same way.
Only the Cancelled Peoples (all know this by now) are even potential 'rebels' to malevolent hypocritical tyranny 😅
@@moritamikamikara3879Of course! So far as they were concerned, China was the center of the world (literally the "Middle Kingdom"), the most wealthy and populous country on Earth, and had been since the start of recorded history. Plus their imperial family had the Mandate of Heaven -- as proven by the fact that they were still the imperial family, despite numerous rebellions and the unfortunate fact of their being...you know... *non-Han* -- and must therefore be the wisest and most righteous people on Earth. Otherwise, Heaven would have replaced them. According to this logic, anybody going to war with the Chinese was self-evidently a rebel against Heaven itself.
The trick is...they're not technically wrong. Waaaaaaay back at the beginning of time, the gods of this setting abandoned Middle-Earth to Melkor/Morgoth, the Satan of this setting. And they showed no interest in reclaiming it when they defeated Melkor at the end of the First Age. So his property -- that is, all of Middle-Earth -- therefore reverts to his successor...who happens to be Sauron. Whether the inhabitants of Middle-Earth *like* being ruled by Sauron is irrelevant. Unless, of course, you're one of the inhabitants of Middle-Earth.
@@moritamikamikara3879 uh but the British act were the bad ones
I often forget that Sloth from The Goonies got his start as a General for Sauron. Should be obvious when the rout at the Pelinor Fields began and you could hear him shouting "Hey YOU GUYS!".
bro i legit read this right after the exact orc you are talking about at the end came on screen and im laughing so hard im in fucking tears. He comes on at 14:59
man what a GIGA boomer comment
@@dusky6280 hey, other boomer here, does boomer have to be used negatively? I know this is like "meta boomer" right now, but I'm old and out of the loop nowadays. When someone says boomer does it have to be in a bad way?
@@dusky6280 Just saying, the Goonies aren't boomer. That's late GenX/Millennial. Get your "you're old" insults right, at least! And get off the lawn I can't afford!
Born 2003 and I love sloth also he was ogre in revenge of the nerds
Orc perspective: "Screwed under Sauron, even more screwed without him."
Even the book states how bleak their existence is.
Basically, "the Putin dilemma".
@SwampCityRadio1974 you mean the zelensky dilemma?
@@earthlymatters888you mean israel dilema
No nice Orcs ???
“Smile! Tomorrow will be worse.”
We don't wanna go to war today, but the Lord of the Lash says 'nay nay nay'...
we're gonna march all day all day all day
All men, no women makes us ... ... ...
@NormanTheDormantDoormat Happy Happy Happy ? 🙃
As an orc, I would like to thank Gandalf for killing the Balrug in Moria, also on behalf of my fellow orcs there.
Just as a note, the orcs in Gundabad still largely worshipped Morgoth, as well as most of the misty mountain orcs, though I believe they participated to some extent in the war of the ring.
Yes! thank you very much! There are far too few videos on the internet delving into the characteristics of the orcs! Would love to see more like this
As soon as I read the title of the video the song wair there's a whip there's a way started playing in my head
This is just great. Thanks, Robert, for all that you do.
12:10 Crazy that they must've been thinking "Well, we pulled off a miracle at Minis Tirith but there's no way out this one." Hence Gimli and Legolas' memorable words
I think this leads to a very interesting alternate history for Middle Earth. What if the orcs won at Pelennor Fields, burnt Minas Tirith, killed most of the main characters and then, at their moment of greatest triumph, the ring is destroyed. (The other alternate history I like is "What if Smeagol never kills Deagol and Saruman/Gandalf find out about the ring and tell Deagol he has to go to Mordor to destroy it.")
Sorry mate, no one cares. Maybe send your fan fiction to the twats making Rings of Power
This man has possibly the most soothing voice on the planet.
I’d listen the fuck out of the LOTR books read by this man.
Please please please do again your analysis segments after each new episode of House of Dragon & Rings of Power season 2 - they are always so insightful and interesting!
"Orc colleague" this is why this channel is the best!
I distinctly remembering that in The Lost Tales Tolkien gave his take on what happened to The Orcs generally when Sauron fell for (hopefully) the last time and pretty much they did what they always did when either Melkor and or Sauron disappeared for ages on end : Like the Dwarves they generally withdrew (with some few exceptions. There have been Orcs who set up their own top-side communities and engaged in farm-work, craftsmenship and trade with local communities of Men and Dwarves with little to no conflict) back into their underground communities and went about minding their own business until eventually they passed out of common knowledge.
Send their spirts back to Eru. Good luck trying to trade with a Mordo-infected Orc as he eats your entrails. Methinks you've forgotten what's been on the Orcish menu since the First Age. Middle Earth is not World of Warcraft. Tolkien's Orcs are irredeemably evil which is the whole point of their role in Middle Earth: they are incarnated spirits of Men (according to Tolkien's last musings on the subject), twisted to do evil because Morgoth put part of himself into them. Only Eru can save 'em.
Imagine being an Orcish artisan, just trying to finish up a cool project, when all of the sudden the Big Boss said it's time to go die...
I’m
I love how Tokien didnt' create one-dimensional bad guys for Middle Earth; even the Orcs and Uruk-hai had individual personalities. Sad that they were unable to showcase much of this in the film. I mean, we see it a little, but not nearly as much as we're able to read in the books.
Look up a book called "The Last Ringbearer" by Kiril Yeskov, which takes a "history is written by the victors" approach to LotR and tells an alternative view of the story and the aftermath from the POV od the orc side.
I came here to say this. Fantastic book.
gonna look for this
It's more of a Soviet propaganda tho
No, its just another ,,I dont like Tolkien vision of his world so i will change it", bullshit same as Rings of Power
@@kaizerman249that’s a good thing
Very interesting video as always, but I was hoping for some more insights of the orcs. What ist their motivation? What drives them? Why do they think they are the "good ones" in their respective story? Why are our heroes the enemies to them? I'm looking forward to your video on orc culture and hopefully some questions might be covered there :)
Tolkien said several times that Orcs were evil by nature (even if not irredeemably so). They hated sunlight and hated goodness. They engaged in pointless destruction whenever they had the occasion to do so. They were smart, but only used this intelligence in creating the tools of war.
Good Guy Uglúk: Hellbent on completing his task, cares about prisoner's health, offers them medicine, even pulls a joke when they are having hard time drinking it. Protects Merry/Pippin from hungry Lurzburg orcs, on top of all, is an Uruk of culture to know what a menu is!
Recently pondering that old geezer Treebeard who brought Merry and Pippin 70,000 Ent strides
I'm human: a mile is about 2,000 paces (70,000 paces would be about 35 miles). If an Ent stride equals three human strides... he carried them over 100 miles.
Really?
Okay, I'll shut up now.
Cheers
That is in a straight line on flat land with no obstacles. Fangorn provided none of those conditions. Many streams might only be forded at certain points and there were large elevation changes.
@@dandiehm8414 Excellent. Thanks, I hadn't given my head the freedom of nuance.
Cheers bigly :-)
That adds up ... He picked them up near the edge of the forest, and as I recall, his home was close to the Misty Mountains.
Sauron’s perspective
1. Largest employer of the Middle Earth
2. Blocked inside a mountainous area. It was an open air prison
3. Discriminated by every other nation.
4. Orcs were subject to ages of racism
5. Maggoty bread all day
6. Continually been subject to declared wars by men, elves, and dwarfs.
7. Conspiracy theorist Wizards continually try to plot coups against Sauron
8. Thief murderous Men stole Sauron’s ring !!!!!
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
Sounds like a certain tribe in real life “WERE the forever victims!”
@@teleskopossomnium Do you mean Russia?
@teleskopossomnium countries are not "tribes"
That's not how the world works.
I've also never thought about the Orcs, other than being mindless, evil creatures. But they're clearly more than that. I love this commentary on their perspective.
Reminds me of one of my favorite books, Orcs! by Mary Gentle. It's a bit tongue in cheek, and there's a lot of other things, but it's basically a Tolkien pastiche told from a company of orcs and it's hilarious how they describe all the High Fantasy tropes.
Their depiction in the Shadows of Mordor game were great. Grogg and hunting.
1:52 orconomy
21 likes is a crime, someone should buy you a beer 🍻
i really love that you also used screenshots and concept art from Shadows of Mordor - That game really made me think about the life of these Orcs and i think also did a great job showing the "normal" life of an orc
I absolutely love how you speak friend
Pure English. No accent. Sounds very proper.
There is actually an interesting novel written about this by a Russian physicist, called "The Last Ringbearer", it's badly written but the idea is great: the perspective is Mordor being a secular, industrializing country that underwent a revolution and industrialization being opposed by an Axis of reactionary feudal regimes who want to crush it, led by Gandalf the mad. In this novel, Mordor is treated a bit like revolutionary France or the USSR after the revolution, attacked by counter-revolutionaries from all over the world. Badly written but great read.
Apparently they have restaurants in Isengard and Mordor. Since they understand the concept of menus.
“Looks like meats back on the menu boys”
Oooo you’re biggest and finest stake
Well done (that's how orcs like their hobbits).
If you're going off the films. The line was made up, (rather unfittingly imo) like the questionable line from Gimli about the "nervous system".
With a side of maggoty bread
@@Howardone Whatever - just don't forget the grog!
The amount of lore that Tolkien created is immense. I mean we have people making historical documentaries on the lore as if it actually happened! It is cool af
The red shirt of Sauron’s army
That’s the best description
Ever
Orc: 'I am not wearing that.'
Next time they are hiring I will go for the stormtroopers instead.
Love this channel. I really appreciate the “big picture” approach.
It's easy as the orc conversations you mention are exactly that...orc perspectives :).
"'No, I don't know,' said Gorbag's voice. 'The messages go through quicker than anything could fly, as a rule. But I don't enquire how it's done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgûl give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you, and leave you all cold in the dark on the other side. But He likes 'em; they're His favourites nowadays, so it's no use grumbling. I tell you, it's no game serving down in the city.'
'You should try being up here with Shelob for company,' said Shagrat.
'I'd like to try somewhere where there's none of 'em. But the war's on now, and when that's over things may be easier.'
'It's going well, they say.'
'They would.' grunted Gorbag. 'We'll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d'you say? - if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.'
'Ah!' said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'
'Yes,' said Gorbag. 'But don't count on it. I'm not easy in my mind. As I said, the Big Bosses, ay,' his voice sank almost to a whisper, 'ay, even the Biggest, can make mistakes. Something nearly slipped you say. I say, something has slipped. And we've got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. But don't forget: the enemies don't love us any more than they love Him, and if they get topsides on Him, we're done too. But see here: when were you ordered out?'
'About an hour ago, just before you saw us. A message came: Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs. I came at once.'
'Bad business,' said Gorbag. 'See here - our Silent Watchers were uneasy more than two days ago, that I know. But my patrol wasn't ordered out for another day, nor any message sent to Lugbúrz either: owing to the Great Signal going up, and the High Nazgûl going off to the war, and all that. And then they couldn't get Lugbúrz to pay attention for a good while, I'm told.'
'The Eye was busy elsewhere, I suppose,' said Shagrat. 'Big things going on away west, they say.'
'I daresay,' growled Gorbag.
'But in the meantime enemies have got up the Stairs. And what were you up to? You're supposed to keep watch, aren't you, special orders or no? What are you for?'
'That's enough! Don't try and teach me my job. We were awake all right. We knew there were funny things going on.'
'Very funny!'
'Yes, very funny: lights and shouting and all. But Shelob was on the go. My lads saw her and her Sneak.'
'Her Sneak? What's that?'
'You must have seen him: little thin black fellow; ... like a starved frog. ... Anyway my lads reported that Her Ladyship was having some fun, and that seemed good enough for me, until the message came. I thought her Sneak had brought her a toy, or that you'd perhaps sent her... a prisoner of war.... I don't interfere when she's playing. Nothing gets by Shelob when she's on the hunt.'
'Nothing, say you! Didn't you use your eyes back there? I tell you I'm not easy in my mind. Whatever came up the Stairs, did get by. It cut her web and got clean out of the hole. That's something to think about!'
'Ah well, but she got him in the end, didn't she?'
'Got him? Got who? This little fellow? But if he was the only one then she'd have had him off to her larder long before, and there he'd be now. And if Lugbúrz wanted him, you'd have to go and get him. Nice for you. But there was more than one.'
At this point Sam began to listen more attentively and pressed his ear against the stone.
'Who cut the cords she'd put round him, Shagrat? Same one as cut the web. Didn't you see that? And who stuck a pin into Her Ladyship? Same one, I reckon. And where is he? Where is he, Shagrat?'
Shagrat made no reply.
'You may well put your thinking cap on, if you've got one. It's no laughing matter. No one, no one has ever stuck a pin in Shelob before, as you should know well enough. There's no grief in that; but think - there's someone loose hereabouts as is more dangerous than any other damned rebel that ever walked since the bad old times, since the Great Siege. Something has slipped.'
'And what is it then?' growled Shagrat.
'By all the signs, Captain Shagrat, I'd say there's a large warrior loose, Elf most likely, with an elf-sword anyway, and an axe as well maybe: and he's loose in your bounds, too, and you've never spotted him. Very funny indeed!' Gorbag spat. Sam smiled grimly at this description of himself.
'Ah well, you always did take a gloomy view.' said Shagrat. ... 'When I've had a look at the fellow we have caught, then I'll begin to worry about something else.'
'It's my guess you won't find much in that little fellow,' said Gorbag. 'He may have had nothing to do with the real mischief. The big fellow with the sharp sword doesn't seem to have thought him worth much anyhow - just left him lying: regular elvish trick.'
The Two Towers, LoTR Book 4, Ch 10, The Choices of Master Samwise
So they are grunts, soldiers they see what they see of the war machine of Sauron from their position, they see everything through their service...working, on shifts, duties, patrolling, doing menial tasks, marching, training, preparing, realizing the orders of the higher ups or giving them to the lower ranks etc.
The orc perspective would of course view the enemy as dreadful ,terrible Elves the fear of their powers and light, the orcs have their own tales, superstitions, beliefs, their lives would be led by the routines and duties of their miltiary service.....well it's of course for the Orcs who are soldiers in services of the evil lords armies because those more or less independent 'free tribes' and clans would form up other way of life:
"The two hobbits gazed at the towers and the wall in despair. Even from a distance they could see in the dim light the movement of the black guards upon the wall, and the patrols before the gate. They lay now peering over the edge of a rocky hollow beneath the out-stretched shadow of the northmost buttress of Ephel Dúath.... [A] crow, maybe, would have flown but a furlong from their hiding-place to the black summit of the nearer tower....
Day came.... Then suddenly the cry of brazen-throated trumpets was heard: from the watch-towers they blared, and far away from hidden holds and outposts in the hills came answering calls; and further still..., there echoed in the hollow land beyond the mighty horns and drums of Barad-dûr. Another dreadful day of fear and toil had come to Mordor..., and the day-guards... were marching to their posts...."
As I said...military service :) guard duty and all that :). Of course soldiers now and then get some free time...and so did the orcs and they would have their own entertainments and fun, feasting, drinking etc.
" There within sight of the peaks of Thangorodrim the Orcs made their encampment in a bare dale, and set wolf-sentinels all about its rim. There they fell to carousing and feasting on their booty; and after tormenting their prisoners most fell drunkenly asleep. By that time day was failing and it became very dark. "
Those of Goblin-town would be more ribald and freer somewhat :).
""Batter and beat! Yammer and bleat! Work, work! Nor dare to shirk, While Goblins quaff, and Goblins laugh, Round and round far underground"
Orc point of view:
"... its light smote the eyes of the orc like the glitter of cruel stars in the terrible elf-countries, the dream of which was a cold fear to all his kind."
...
"He's coming here, I tell you. You heard the bell. He's got past the Watchers, and that's tark's work."
This last quote seems to imply they have superstitious beliefs about Tarks...so the abilities of the Numenorean origin men ("In this jargon tark, 'man of Gondor', was a debased form of tarkil, a Quenya word used in Westron for one of Númenorean descent; see III, 54."). They definitely passed down the 'memories' of the past events:
"So began the Battle of Azanulbizar (or Nanduhirion in the Elvish tongue), at the memory of which the Orcs still shudder and the Dwarves weep."
They seemed to pass down the stories. The Orcs of the First Age even seem to have some knowledge of the Valar the Powers of the World, the 'gods' of the setting, though obviously with quite different slant:
"But now in the camp beneath the Orcs were roused, both by the storm and by Turin's cry, and discovered that Turin was gone; but no search was made for him, for they were filled with terror by the thunder that came out of the West, believing that it was sent against them by the great Enemies beyond the Sea."
Try reading "The Last Ringbearer" by Kirill Yeskov. You can only find it as an ebook because they were afraid of legal actions fom the tolkien family, so it is not printed. I found it as good and well written as the original, with a really novel point of view.
Thanks for great, well thought out, and fun videos so regularly! 😄
Interesting, Cheers, I read all the books 2 or 3 times back in the 80s but it's still nice to hear something different about them.
I would have liked to hear more about the way the armies of Mordor were fed. Did they have big evil farms? What do Orks even eat?
I'm curious about food in general in Middle Earth. Can Elves starve to death? Does Gandalf need to eat?
'Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Nurnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long waggon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves.'
Clearly the orcs don't have a robust livestock industry, or else they wouldn't have felt the need to say, "looks like meat's back on the menu"....
From both a logistic/geological standpoint and a worldbuilding standpoint, the orcs live in the volcanic ash lands around Mt Doom, which means they have mineral-rich soil. Much like southern Italy/Sicily or Japan, it's likely ideal land for growing enormous quantities of wheat, and they probably do labour-intensive farming throughout the lands. Thematically, I could see the orc diet being largely built around a sort of "anti-lembas", the most depressing bread in the world.
As for elves, considering how not particularly welcoming of non-elves they are, I doubt they would have built such cultural importance around lembas if sustenance was only something the other races had to worry about. Perhaps they have the ability to slow or even stop their metabolism through meditation or something when needed, but otherwise there's no indication that they are unaffected by hunger, fatigue, or other frailties that mortals experience, just at a slower pace. So, I would theorize that elves CAN starve to death, in the same way that they can be felled by a stab wound, despite being naturally immortal.
Gandalf is a different story, though. He's a spiritual being that is taking the appearance of a man. I'm sure he and the other Istari ENJOY eating (a good hearty meal is one of the bedrock components of "a good life" in the morality of Tolkien, after all), but he has no actual need for it.
@GregMcNeish those particular orcs were also traveling
@@kingvarien True. Also, the use of the word "back" when referring to meat implies that it's at least occasionally on the menu. Mordor doesn't strike me as a place with plentiful wild animals, or being particularly hospitable to livestock, but other areas where orcs live would sensibly have both of those things. Overall, I guess I don't see a reason that their diet would be significantly different from humans, hobbits, etc.
@@GregMcNeish The "Looks like meat is back on the menu, boys!" line wasn't in the book, so don't take it as canon.
You mention the fell beasts at Pelennor Fields. I heard a theory somewhere that the term "fell beast" wasn't a proper noun, but a description, as if it were one of Morgoth's experiments to twist the living things of the world, and Sauron ended up making use of them (though he didn't create them). That makes them even more unnerving, because now I understand it not as a name, but our best attempt to give one to an unknowable creature (or perhaps a creature better left unknown). The fact that such creatures were wielded as mounts by the nazgul would be enough to make any orc say "yes sir".
Very interesting perspective
Maybe lotr from Bill's perspective next? 🤔 🥹
He was criminally overlooked in the movies
Maybe LOTR from the Entwives perspective...
@mallninja9805 Also a good one!!!!
With the movies, I actually felt bad for orcs cause they were so easily defeated by just one or two heroes. Just one ranger can take out like 20 of them and the Legolas can take out like a 100 hundred on his own
"The best weapon is the spear; you got long, and you got sharp." --orcs from Shadow of Mordor, which I see you used in the art, or perhaps from Shadow of War.
will the orcs wear wigs
Hahahaha
“Maybe?”
@@michaellao7264when will the orcs wear wigs?
Criminally underrated comment. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
in the new series anything is possible
Thank you again Robert for your wonderful story telling. From you I think I can listen LOTR from anyone's perspective, you tell the story so well. And yes it's a worthy look for these beings who were doing all this under slavery.
Ever read "The Last Ringbearer"? Not exactly the topic of your video, but that certainly made me think of this book.
@In Deep Geek
3: 57 - “There were humans; Easterlings and Black Numenoreans.” Maybe Haradrim or some other creeds of men too
4: 00 - “Wargs for the Orcs to ride.” There could’ve also been horses for the humans as well, and maybe some other animals like the “Great Beasts” that hauled Grond
With the death of Bernard Hill, I’d love a deep dive into the story of Theoden.
Incredible amount of detail & complexity. Wow!!
I've heard there's an unauthrized book written about this matter. Some russian guy's written a 300 pages, an alternative version of the LOTR events. Mordor's propaganda, elvish and human imperialism, daily struggles of the orcs, etc.
It's called "the last ringbearer" and paints Mordor as an upcoming industry and depending on technology. The wizards from Gondor have an agenda to keep their folk stupid with tales of magic in fear that they might begin to see it as oppression. It's a really interesting take. I thought this video would be about this book.
This is why I love Tolkins words so much. They translate into our world with ease. 15:05 My understanding as well is that Orcs are just like a lot of europe in the second World War.
A lot of grey lifes with dark minds. A life where the only warmth you feel is the fire of an explosion and the heat of your enemys blood.
The Power of Saurons evil is the power to cut everyone apart from each other. To kill connection. Connection to life and to love. To peace and good food.
This is what makes life worthwhile. This is what creates a life which can be like...
...a Hobbit or maybe even an Elve.
It's somehow to be quite disconnected of the rest of the world, but at the same time beeing deeply in touch with it.
This and a lot more is to me the beauty of Tolkin and Middelearth.
Have we ever given a hint that the orcs of the Misty Mountains were in any way under the control of Sauron?
People always seem to assume that, but I think there is no evidence besides the assumption that "They are orcs, aren't they? So they must be under his control."
I always assumed that the presence of the Balrog blocked his influence. Also: They were far from Mordor for millenia and mostly surrounded by force hostile to them. None of the wars they have waged seem to be in any way coordinated events, they were just instigated by local warlords when given an outside opportunity.
The only period where they could have been under Saurons direct influence may have been the north of the Misty Mountains during the Witch King's rule in Angmar. But even here I don't recall that his forces included orcs. It seems to me they were not part of his plans.
I was hooked as soon as this guy said, "Welcome." Smooth as butter
Another absolute banger of a video. Well done.
This is a good video. That being said I expected something else from the title. A speculative video about the perspective of orcs in the war of the ring would be great. ❤
I didn’t expect their perspective to be so engaging! Great idea for a discussion!
Nik Pierumow did nice job, showing perspective of Mordor in his books.
Elves and humans standing in way of progress and industrialization.
So to summarise, 'Lord of the Rings from an orc's perspective' was: depressing, brutal, terrifying & then very swiftly ...over!
(Though for the record, I'd honestly LOVE to read a tongue-in-cheek retelling of LOTR, from the perspective of an Orcish, Anti Frodo & Sam; desperately seeking a quiet life, while getting swept up in the epic conflict! Perhaps in the vein of Ciaphas Cain, Blackadder, Fred Colon & Nobby Nobbs, Tag & Bink or 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead' etc.)
That could be amazing if done right; It could even be done in a way where it is ambiguous enough, or satirical enough, with the setting to make it copyright friendly.
While not 100% LotR based, you might enjoy 'Grunts' by Mary Gentle - that's a comedic story of 'the Final Battle' from the perspective of a bunch of orcs serving a Dark Lord.
You might want to dig up a copy of "The Last Ringbearer." It's a Russian retelling that treats LotR as Western propaganda.
Yes that's The Last Ringbearer but it sucks, it's made by someone who didn't actually pay attention to the story
@@gregcox777
Western propaganda?
Dang, those Ruski's never really got any less batshit, did they?
This video and proffered were excellent. Seeing the timelines laid out and connected as well as the varying views and roles of the orcs was enlightening (despite their hatred of light!). Thank you.
Ever read GRUNTS by Mary Gentle? Excellent snarky book about how the Orcs see things!
I like Orcs, by Stan Nicholls.
Love the interspersed "War in the North" visuals. Such a great game that deserves a remaster so it's playable on next gen consoles.
I love your analysis’s.
*analyses.
Brilliant.
Undoing the common, superficial perceptions and looking deeper for truths.
Even if uncomfortable to find.
Love your videos! Don't suppose audible would let you narrate lotr? 😅
I can recommend the audiobook version of LOTR narrated by @natalie_kendel (here, in RUclips) . She has a beautiful voice ❤
I suggested this a year or so ago.. more as a youtube video.. each chapter could be a video
@flaviasoledadbriglia8561 I'm currently listening to it narrated by Andy Serkis. But will definitely give her a listen next.
@JesusChrist-vq6lk Thanks for the reply Jesus, can I just say I love your earlier work 😉 That's actually a good idea! Don't even need audible. Keeps the RUclips fan base. 👍
Or perhaps these on Spotify
You may have done it already. But how about a video on why the ghost army did not deal with Mordor after. It would have saved a lot of lives and surely a few extra hours of their time meant nothing against being cursed already for many years.
Aragorn just barely had the ghost under control. He certainly didn't want them any closer to Sauron.
The sooner he could hold their oath fulfilled and send them out of Sauron's reach the better.
You forgot the part where the Orc tries to provide for it's loving wife and infant. Orcs are just like us, you know.
In Rings of Power orcs are consistently decipted as brutal killers who loot, plunder and burn villages and enslave humans and elves. One orc caring for his child doesn't make all orcs "just like us" - it doesn't even mean that specific orc is not evil because even evil people can care about their own families (see e.g. Michael Corleone from the Godfather movies)
😂😂😂😂
@@exantiuse497turn your sarcastometer back on
💀 💀
No one is born evil
Love your content man, Keep up the good work.
I thought orcs were just worried about their wives and kids and the future of their loving families?
Hey Robert! I love your lotr content and I am patiently waiting for your rerelease of Gollum: A Character Study! It was genuinely one of my favorite videos on the entire internet and I was sad to see you made it private!
Can we nominate Robert to take over narration duties for productions that would normally call David Attenborough?
Could listen to you talk about sludge and enjoy every second!
Sometimes I think that the surviving orcs went into politics.
Nice work as usual. I'm reminded of the classic 1971 novel _Grendel_ by John Gardner, which tells the tale of Beowulf from the monster's point of view.
Thanks!
“Alright lads, remember your training. And remember! If you hear counting, RUN!”
Orc hearing violins...."Are we the baddies?"
“Yeah! Boss music! … Wait a minute… this isn’t _our_ boss music..”
Excellent. Yes plz to more orc info, culture, etc.
Last time i was this early i paid child support for 18 years
Shit must have been a scary experience for you 🤦🏽♂️😂
You must be white then. Ain't no way some Bongo-Bongo guy has even heard of child support.
That is offensive
That is hilarious
That is unexpected
11:04 good to remember Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring at this point or assumed. After their chat through the palintir
Amazon: they have families and don’t really want to go to war
Fun fact the name Tolkien is contained within the name Thorkelin who was the first translator of Beowulf. Cheers
Thank you. Very insightful.
Did you read the Russian novelle "The Last Ringbearer" which tries to tell the story from the side of the orcs?
There is a book that shows this perspective.
"The Last Ringbearer" by Kirill Yeskov
An orc's 'loyalty' depends hugely on his proximity to a loyal overlord or captain. Captains are expected to and depended on keeping the common footsoldiers or "maggots" in line. Just a slight deviation from the strictest of enforcements and the common orc instantly starts scheming and planning for selfish reasons. You can find hints of this in almost any interaction between two orcs. And they all seem to have their personal drives and dreams. Some dream of promotion, some of "plundering in peace", some of escape from slavery. So it wouldn't be such a reach to say that the common orc perspective - regardless of their tribe, location or overlord - would be "I wish we'd be done with all this soon, so that we can see if we can all go on our business".